I was listening to one of Howard Stern's interviews with her the other day, and it sounded like she really did not care for that husband of hers at all. She cheated on him several times, and even left him for another man once.
What was the story there? I've heard that Edgar was a closet case.
I never cared much for Joan, but her life seems so interesting. I get the overwhelming impression that she is incredibly bitter and angry, though.
Joan & Edgar married after knowing each other just 1-2 weeks. Basically they were two Jews who knew they could make a shit pot of money together.
I find it very hard to believe any man was interested in having an affair with her. However, after Edgar’s death she eventually hooked up with some one-legged man which lasted some years, but for the most part Joan's too abraisive for straight men's egos.
She hooked up with Orin Lehman of the formerly rich New York banking family until Monique Van Vooren took out her dentures and blew him until he threw away his cane. He was missing the lower part of his leg, like Aviva only without the complaining.
Given that for several years after his suicide she made a profession out of being The Grieving Widow Rosenberg, it's pretty obnoxious she would badmouth him now.
I always feel weirdly sorry for Joan, because she's a smart woman but she can't help being an asshole. Unlike Madonna, who revels in being an asshole, Joan really wishes she were a good person. But she's not. She's an asshole.
Edgar was very ugly, very unattractive, wasn't he?
R3, she didn't exactly badmouth him, but the way she talked about the marriage (like it was of no consequence) and was so brazen about the affairs she had, made it seem like he meant nothing to her.
He WAS a most unattractive fellow. God only knows what went on in that marriage, though. I mean, he killed himself! Probably a mishmash of Joan's abrasive personality and his own depression. Yes, he managed her career and she made a shitpot of money. I never got a vibe one bit that she loved him or that it was even a conventional marriage, though. Perhaps he loved her and she didn't or couldn't reciprocate. One gets the feeling that she was insensitive to him, though. Perhaps he was self-loathing and Joan treated him poorly. Every cup finds a saucer. We will only ever get Joan's side of it all, though.
She mentions it was a mostly a business partnership in her documentary. I think she was also very bitter after he committed suicide and left her to deal with the aftermath of her show.
I got a very gay vibe from Edgar. He was born in Germany, educated in England, and appeared to be rather prissy: he collected antique snuffboxes and pillboxes, for example.
He didn't marry Joan until he was in his 40s. He had a fairly unsuccessful career in TV and PR before then, but Joan was his meal ticket.
There's more to their story than Joan is telling.
If you've never read the first installment of her autobiography, [italic]Enter Talking,[/italic] it's a great read.
If memory serves, she wrote that the love of her life was a bohemian type she dated after she first left home to pursue acting in Manhattan. (She played a lesbian in her first play, opposite Barbra Streisand, whose character her character was in love with.) After a while, her domineering parents forced her to move home and get a respectable job under threat of being committed to a psych ward.
Her first marriage, to a department-store heir who met with her parents' approval, was unhappy too -- it lasted half a year (she had it annulled because he didn't want kids).
Factoring in her protracted struggle to make it in comedy, I think she was really cynical and hard by the time she met Edgar.
And as she herself has admitted, they only had sex once - on their wedding night, and Melissa was produced.
After that, neither one of them was interested in fucking each other. Outside parties, OTOH, were welcome...
Wasn't Melissa born three years after Joan and Edgar were married?
Edgar was Joan's manager, producer, advisor, guide, protector, and emotional and moral support. I got the feeling from her documentary that she relied on him to fight her battles, get the gigs, and make things happen. When he committed suicide, it was basically an abandonment of his duties. That's why she was so bitter and angry about it. Whatever love Joan had for Edgar, it wasn't romantic love, but one that you have for someone who supports and cares for you no matter what.
Yes, R11, according to Wikipedia.
Is Melissa really Edgar's daughter?
Joan and Edgar married on 15 July 1965. Melissa was born on 20 January 1968.
We know Joan and Melissa lie about their age.
And ANYONE can post something on Wikipedia.
If her husband knew how much she paid on plastic surgery he'd kill himself all over again.
R16. Do you also believe that the U.S. conspired to knock down the Twin Towers and kill the people in the buildings the 11th of September 2001?
The tea in Philly was that Edgar and his gay business partner/best friend Tommy Pileggi were lovers, at least at the beginning. Edgar spent a tremendous amount of time in Philly(this was when the Rosenbergs were LA based)and of course Melissa went to Penn.
I don't think there is any doubt that Melissa is Edgar's biological child; and, that is not a compliment. She has spent 1/3 of her life trying to alter her looks to rid the likeness she received from both of them. She still is pretty fug.
I know committing suicide when you have a wife and daughter to clean up the mess, so to speak, is selfish and cowardly. But I always felt it was really cold that she changed her name almost immediately from Melissa Rosenberg to Melissa Rivers. I don't think that was all about name recognition and show biz. I think it was a way to stick the shiv in Daddy for what he did.
Enough discussing this republican cunt!
Oh god, the "tea"
[quote]I always feel weirdly sorry for Joan, because she's a smart woman
By saying that Democrats hate America, and want to ban the Pledge of Alleigence. She's a dumb motherfucker. Can't wait til she croaks. She's a waste of space.
 Darjeeling dear.
[quote]Wasn't Melissa born three years after Joan and Edgar were married?
True, but R10's tale is more entertaining. It's all part of DL's collaborative fiction.
I remember Joan and Edgar getting kicked out of an office building on Robertson Bl. in WeHo back in the 70s for putting up posters of her Rabbit Test movie in the elevators. She's okay. I never got the idea Edgar was more than a business manager for her. He tried to fuck Fox and Fox fucked her. She had to go back to the clubs. Pissed. That's when he did it.
R24, maybe it was a long gestation, similar to an elephant's.
Melissa Rivers is not ugly. She's very attractive, and could have easily been a model back when she was younger. The surgery comes from years of being viciously torn apart by people who are clearly jealous of her stature in the business. But she was incredibly gorgeous in her twenties.
Joan is a nice, down to earth person. You really do learn how to separate the act from reality. She's one of the nicest celebrities you will ever meet.
I wish to God I could find this entire movie somewhere!! And I hate to admit it--I mean REALLY hate to admit it--but Melissa actually used to be an attractive girl.
^ For the people in that other thread who don't know what camp is -- this definitely qualifies.
R27, if my face weren't so full of Botox, your post would have been the best laugh I would have had all day!
"I get the overwhelming impression that she is incredibly bitter and angry"
That's the act -- without the bitterness, Joan would have no act. Just like most all comedians, she's a self-hater.
Most comics are complex, miserable souls who have somehow managed to squeeze five minutes of laughs out of their sad and depressing lives.
Calling Melissa Rivers "very attractive" is like calling a ham sandwich "haute cuisine."
Melissa is attractive. Even with all the face work done, she still looks good and could pass for Sandra Bullock any day of the week. And she's a very smart businesswoman too. She practically runs the Rivers empire.
People love to take shots at her, but they don't realize what an incredibly smart businesswoman she is. Of course, she inherited all of that from Joan.
My take has always been that Joan probably is bitter and angry but she acts much more bitter and angry and bitchy than she actually is because doing that gave her a second career chance.
I suppose businesswoman fits Melissa since she certainly never made it as an actor. There's no greater proof that their WEtv "reality" show is staged than her flat line-readings.
It is me or does Half-Pint and Melissa Rivers kinda look alike?
Well Sandy Bullock's probably gone to the same face docs as Melissa. Sandy was no beauty either. She was fug as the day is long when she was younger.
Melissa Rivers walks into a bar, and bartender says, "Hey Melissa--why the long face?"
I just don't see how on earth Joan Rivers could be a Republican. That blows my mind. It shows a serious disconnect between her and reality.
R39. Tat was Cher. Sorry
She was so much funnier when Waylon Flowers had his hand stuck up her ass...
You bumped a thread after seven minutes?
R27, I completely agree with your first paragraph. Not so much the second. No one with any self concept messes up her face like Joan has. And, sadly, Melissa may have gotten her dad's business acumen, but she appears to have gotten her mother's sense of self, with the way she's screwing up her face, too.
Okay, Melissa Rivers isn't friggin Mona Lisa and Meryl Streep rolled into one. But is that reason enough to hate her so much?
I don't hate her, but I read a profile of her early on, back in the 80s when she was in high school or college. She came off as really snooty and on guard against people who wanted to befriend her under false pretenses ("because of my mom"). She's wooden, appears to have awful choice in men, and is talent-free, at least in front of the camera.
Joan and Melissa are far from attractive and that's the reason Joan is bitter, but it made her rich and famous. She has spent her life ripping apart the beautiful. Their reality show is terrible. Totally scripted and badly so. As Joan is alive Melissa will never find a man good enough to pass Momma's muster. First and foremost he has to be rich, really rich. From the documentary, she seems obsessed with money.
Melissa's son is a cutie and seems unspoiled (until Joan comes around) I am ambivalent about Melissa. It would be tough to be Joan's daughter and be worried about why people really like you. I feel bad for her about her boyfriend too. He seemed nice enough and got along well with her son. I hope she finds another guy.
I don't see how you can call Melissa gorgeous. It fucking pains me to look at her face.
Ha r51, even better than that scene is the name of the person who posted it "willnotbeignored1" Brilliant. It has to be one of us.
I've recently seen things of her talking about Edgar's suicide and how Melissa got the call informing them. She says that Melissa was 15 years old, but the numbers don't add up. Melissa would've been 19 in '87. What's up with that?
I just watched the five minute clip that someone posted upthread and Joan was talking to (DL fave) Dorothy Lyman in it and said that Melissa was 19 when it happened. So I guess she was.
Fuck you and the Melissa Rivers you rode in on.
People magazine said she was 19 when she got the phone call, r54. Probably another attempt by Joan to erase some years.
The People story from 1987 gives an account of Edgar's failing health and career before his suicide.
Oh thanks for the link r56. I'm gonna go read that now.
[quote]Melissa Rivers is not ugly. She's very attractive, and could have easily been a model back when she was younger.
Puhlease. Even before started getting plastic surgery she still had her mom's natural, aged, drawn horseface. Now she just looks like her mother did before the last (terrifying) round of surgery that makes Joan look like she's wearing a permanent mask. That's what M.R. has to look forward to... forever in Mommy's shadow, eh Melissa?
"I just don't see how on earth Joan Rivers could be a Republican."
In 2000 on her WOR radio show, Joan said she was a Republican purely because of taxes -- she "votes her pocketbook." Very "NY Republican," and in 2000, that meant she was voting for W.
Joan is a liberal on most issues like abortion and gay rights. Except for lesbians, she's very wary of lesbians because she seems to be afraid that they're interested in her.
Melissa looks like Sara Silverman, ratlike with a dumb dot of a postsurgery nose.
What's the real story re Melissa's divorce fron the horse trainer, John Endicott?
I can ony imagine having Joan for a mother in-law made his life Hell.
The divorce financial settlement is under seal so I'm assuming Melissa had to pay him off.
[quote]What's the real story re Melissa's divorce from the horse trainer, John Endicott?
He kept trying to ride her.
You're correct #28, Melissa was absolutely cute in that movie. She's totally fucked up her face with chicklet teeth, an overly wide smile, huge cheek bones & a prominent jaw. It's obvious she used Joan's plastic surgeon as they now look like twins.
Every time I'm reminded of Missy Rivers' ex-husband being a horse trainer I pee a little.
If you're REALLY fucking bored, here's an interview with the talking horse herself. The interviewer kisses her ass as if she's a huge star (asking why paparazzi don't pester her--HA!), and it's fun listening to Melissa try and act as if she's earned her place in the world at 21:20...
R59 I've noticed that too-she doesn't seem to like lesbians at all by the things she's said about them.
Didn't he mishandle her finances?
"Except for lesbians, she's very wary of lesbians because she seems to be afraid that they're interested in her."
According to her made for TV movie, R68, she couldn't even balance her checkbook!
I've told this story a few times on DL but I just can't resist. I went to Melissa's coming out party many, many years back. It was in Beverly Hills and 3,000 people were invited. Joan, Edgar and Melissa were all in white. These "friends" all were exchanging bitchy remarks about how unattractive Melissa was and how totally nouveau riche the Rosenbergs were. I really wondered if Joan understood how much bad taste and viciousness her own comedy inspired.
It is interesting that she seems to have gotten over Edgar's death much more quickly than the Carson fiasco. I saw a bit on ET this week where she goes to a memorial plaque of his and essentially spits on it after tearfully recounting how he gave her a career. Did that air on her show yet? I can't bring myself to watch it.
Coming out party??
Well, it was her 16th birthday party. Note that there seemed to be no one of her age there, certainly not any of her female peers.
I don't much like Joan and Melissa on their various TV projects--however, they're very interesting and likeable in the Rivers documentary.
I can't imagine M.R. having friends. Can you?
In one episode she put her ridiculous apartment up for sale. She asked $25 million for an apartment with a Formica galley kitchen. Of course she had no intention of selling, just see of anyone was interested. No one was.
How much money does she need? She's over the top obsessed with money and making money.
Did Ed & Joan ever do anal?
Edgar did anal but Joan had nothing to do with it.
I've always loved Joan. And I have nothing against Melissa; she sort of gets a bad rap because people think she had everything handed to her. But whatever, we can debate that aspect of her life forever.
However, I am very surprised that Joan wasn't mortified and that Melissa dated Vivid porn exec Steve Hirsch. I don't know, I thought Joan and Melissa had more class than that. Dating the head of Vivid porn is pretty trashy.
I remember Joan lashing out at people who dissed her entertaining. They were saying how she lives with formal livery and all that like Madame Pompadour with all her "Louis" furniture. And Joan said "If they don't like the way I entertainment, don't come to my home, don't eat my croissants."
"If they don't like the way I entertainment." OK, well, you know... LOL
Melissa dated the head of Vivid porn? I like Joan and Melissa, but that's totally friggin classless and embarrassing. What's wrong with Melissa?
I read an interview a while back when Joan was quoted to say that she was initially embarrassed among her show business friends to be on 'Celebrity Apprentice.' How the hell did she happen to rationalize her daughter dating the porn guy? Did she think that was okay just because the guy is rich?
So everything Joan said in that grotesque TV movie where she played herself with her hopeless pugly daughter who was so desperate she took her mother's surname to piggyback off her was all a LIE? Oh Joan.
Did anyone see her documentary? I thought it made her seem more humble and even compassionate than her public persona.
She has to work for a living and so she falls back on her shtick PF being a miserable bitch because it pays the bills.
Shortly after Edgar's suicide, some comedian made a joke about it along the lines of "it wasn't suicide, it was an escape clause" and Joan freaked, saying it was vicious, distasteful, etc etc but soon Joan was using the same material. I supposed you could argue that it is wrong for others to joke about it but okay for the parties directly involved (gallows humor as a coping mechanism) but Joan has always seemed to be able to dish it out but not take it. Case in point, it's okay for her to make fun of people but whenever anyone criticized Melissa, she would go ballistic.
I saw it r86 and I agree with you. Despite being so wealthy, she does work for it and is the definition of a working woman. My god her jokes filed on index cards by subject was crazy! She seems to like to work as is obvious since she doesn't need to anymore.
[quote]My god her jokes filed on index cards by subject was crazy!
I think that's standard for comics of a certain age (e.g., Carson).
R87 and yet Joan makes fun of people all the time right after they die. She's such a hypocrite.
Hmm r89, I suppose you are right. I guess I just assumed that she kind of kept her material in her head though she's been at it for so long that that's a lot of head space. I just never thought there would be such an intricate system, by category and not year, though it makes sense when you say it. I think she said she was leaving them to Melissa, too bad because that would be a cool thing to be displayed somewhere.
I never thought Melissa was really trying to be in the limelight, it seems like she would prefer to just raise her kid but then she would get shit for not working and living off of Mom. I remember one episode of Joan knows Best when Joan mentioned that Natalie Portman was Melissa's neighbor and Melissa was kind of pissed because Natalie doesn't really advertise where she lives. It seemed genuine to me but I could be wrong.
Seeing Joan in that old movie like the Hollywood squares gig, she wasn't ugly. Did she really think she was? She looks odd now but she was as cute as anyone back then. Not a model but a nice looking lady comedian, skinny, cute figure. I guess you do get fucking warped by being among so many gorgeous people. Melissa was cute too.
I have some Joan Rivers stuff to share.
comedian, Ben Stein thinks Joan is disgusting. He said when Edgar died, she miked his death as much as she could and used it to her advantage by gaining as much attention as possible. He said she is a disturbing phony.
I remember that TV movie starring Joan and her daughter about Edgar's death. Melissa can off like a very snobby rich kid brat! I remember in one scene, Joan had a boyfriend over and Melissa bragged how lavish her father was.
I remebr in an interview, Joan said she told her daughter to lie about her age. She said you have to in this bussiness and most do.
I think Joan put a lot of pressure on Edgar to live a certain lifestyle. I remember watching another interview which she said Edgar knew she immensely loved Faberge and he bought her antique Carl Faberge egg pendants ,which run in the tens of thousands of dollars, and jewels. Then Joan plays the I hate you Edgar for what did BS.
I shared this story before on DL.
My brother had a friend who worked as a security guard for some 5 star restaurant in Los Angeles.The owner wanted a security guard in the restaurant because of his high profile clientele who did not want to be bothered by Paparazzi. My brother's friend met many famous people who dinned at the high end restaurant. One day Joan came into the restaurant with her little dog sitting there at a booth with her dog barking up a storm. Others who were dining there complained to the manager about the barking. So, the manager of the restaurant asked , the security guard, my brother's friend, if he could ask Joan to take her dog out of the restaurant. My brother's friend went to Joan, and very politely asked her could she take the dog outside. She asked why, and he said her dog was making a lot of noise and bothering other diners. She snapped at him and said, don't you know who I am! I'm Joan Rivers! He said to her, Well don't you know who I am? I'm security and I'm asking you to please take your dog outside. She snapped again and said I'm leaving!!
BTW, I highly doubt Joan is a Republican. She cuts done Republican politicians a lot.
You hardly want to believe she's a Republican, but it's an established fact that she is.
I love Joan, and I've seen videos of her at airports, etc where she appears to be very nice to her fans...but I also knew a girl who worked as a makeup artist in LA and she said Joan was the worst celeb she ever worked with. I remember her telling me a story about Joan blowing her nose into a Kleenex and then attempting to hand it to her. When this makeup girl refused to touch the snot rag, Joan apparently freaked on her.
How can Melissa lie about her age when Joan appeared on national tv on the Ed Sullivan show nine months pregnant with Melissa in early 1968?
[quote]In 1968, when Joan appeared on the show nine months pregnant, she wasn’t allowed by censors to say the word “pregnant”. "I could never say pregnant. I wasn’t at all risqué in those days,” she remembers, “but he was very worried about me because I was a woman.” When Joan’s daughter Melissa was born, the Sullivans were named her godparents.
[quote]However, I am very surprised that Joan wasn't mortified and that Melissa dated Vivid porn exec Steve Hirsch. I don't know, I thought Joan and Melissa had more class than that. Dating the head of Vivid porn is pretty trashy
He passed the only important test, the credit check. Melissa is also friends and I mean real friends, not show biz friends, with Joe Francis,the "Girls Gone Wild" owner.
Anyone see next week's promo for their reality show where Joan walks in on Melissa getting laid with the gorgeous Brit she imported from central Casting? Melissa is on top! Melissa is livid but I smell Emmy!
[quote]I remember her telling me a story about Joan blowing her nose into a Kleenex and then attempting to hand it to her. When this makeup girl refused to touch the snot rag, Joan apparently freaked on her.
lol! That's a good one, kudos to the girl. Sadly that's the thing many are expected to, but she's a makeup artist.
[quote]comedian, Ben Stein thinks Joan is disgusting.
Are you seriously referring to Ben Stein as a comedian? While I'm no fan of Joan, the idea of Ben Stein thinking anyone is disgusting is unconscionable.
I don't think Joan and Melissa have many celeb or rich friends because Joan has burned so many bridges. Remember when they were on Celeb Apprentice? They always had the hardest time raising money in fundraising tasks because no one they knew would donate money, probably because she's a bitch and talks so much shit.
I always liked Ben Stein's show, he seemed cool. What do you know about him r100? Any dirt? My dad would flip, he loves him.
Aren't all of you referring to Ben Stein's article in Esquire, in which he tore Joan a new ass, and wrote under some non de plume?
I don't know r103 because Snubber at r100 didn't answer me. Thank you, do you know the fake name or have a link?
Johnny Carson punks Joan Rivers with a Margaret Hatcher look-a-like. Edgar is here too.
#104. Sorry I don't have a link to that Esquire article of Ben Stein's. I only remember that it came out very shortly after Edgar's death & Joan cried all over the media about it.
Fun to watch that clip, R105. And I'd forgotten how they used to use the "coocoo!" when bleeping someone.
She's a hateful c**t.
[quote]I get the overwhelming impression that she is incredibly bitter and angry, though.
Uhm, do you think?
I used to find her amusing, but she's become so awful, so nasty and unraveled, she has revealed what a miserable ghoul she really is. I hate her.
Why do people blame Edgar for killing himself and not Robin Williams? This thread is a good example of two sets of standards. Few people know much about Edgar beyond his relationship with Joan Rivers. I'm glad people have reacted differently to Robin's death; let's hope times have changed.
I'm not buying some of these tales. After the initial hubbub over the death of her husband, she went overseas for awhile. The reason I know, is because I met her in Sydney, Australia.