This Graphic Of Killer, Adam Lanza's Home Arsenal Is Devastating
The Sandy Hook shooter had this shocking amount of weapons and bullets tucked away into the house he shared with his mother. There's absolutely no reason for anyone to have this much ammo.
The warrant released represents everything found in Adam Lanza's house that he shared with his mother as well as his car. However, the paperwork had a lot of errors. We tried to re-create the list of items seized to the best of our ability.
"Numerous" bullets were found scattered throughout the house. Because there's no way to know exactly how many there were, they're represented by the bag of bullets on the graphic.
Also, the size of bullet boxes is relative to the amount of bullets that were in each box. So a small box represents 10 bullets, a medium box has 20 to 30, and the big boxes represent 50 bullets.
It wasn't "Adam Lanza's Home Arsenal", it was NANCY Lanza's home arsenal.
He was unemployable, and his mother actually bought all the weapons he used to kill her.
don't people who buy weapons tend to have more than one?
r1 she may have purchased them, but she did so specifically for him. Just because it was a gift, doesn't mean it doesn't belong to you.
If only he had grabbed one of those knives instead all those kids would still be alive.
Has there been any disclosure on the pharmaceuticals Adam Lanza was using prior to the massacre? It amazes me that this information is willfully held back.
Has his brother said anything since the incident?
Adam Lanza uncle is a cop
"Has there been any disclosure on the pharmaceuticals Adam Lanza was using prior to the massacre?"
There is no reason to release that information. I'm guessing you think that prescription medications might have caused his behavior, but there's no way to prove that. Any medications he took may or may not have affected his actions, and the only people who know if he was actually taking any medications prescribed are dead.
It is relevant, r7.
It's important for any number of reasons, not least an NCR defense.
This is increasingly becoming a public debate because of the expense incurred by LEOs and the State for these cases.
Eventually, that makes it a taxpayer problem, so everyone does have a vested interest.
It's nutty how some Americans cannot see the obvious.
1,000 rounds of ammo is a common amount for a bulk purchase - not unusual or difficult to obtain at all
some people don't consider a handgun "broken in" until it's fired several hundred rounds to wear tolerances to a good fit (much like a new car engine)
How is it not relevant? Psychotic breaks are common for Prozac users. "Suicidal ideation" is a risk. Wake up, pillhead.
What the fuck was his mother thinking? . She was just as nuts.
R7, if the shooter was taking prescription meds LEO would likely find them when searching the house. Also, the prescribing doctor would likely be around and the shooter's dad would possibly know.
I think a big part of the lack of information in this case is because Lanza's dad is a high level corporate executive.
r10, wouldn't the problem not be the amount, but the time frame in which it was purchased?
I'm thinking the fact that investigators found it at the house might mean the kid asked the mother for another gun(s) and more ammo, which should have raised a red flag.
I'm not blaming the mother here 100%, but it did seem odd.
she definitely bears some large responsibility.
That is hardly an "arsenal", you are letting the media tell you what to think. Those guns are so shit quality I'm surprised they worked.
Tell that to the dead adults, and the children's parents, r17.
r16, I don't think she deserves the vengeance culture in America.
How many people truly know (or knew) a) what was in the kid's head, & b) how much of that he made visible to his mum, brother, teachers, etc.
A lot of kids are like him, even without the autism diagnosis. There is a lot of rejection, bullying and outright hatred of these kids, even by adults.
The rage that results is not surprising, but it doesn't always lead to 20 dead kids.
Well, I'm blaming her. A lot. She definitely knew her son was mentally disturbed.
She not only taught him to shoot, but permitted this huge cache of weapons to be in her home. Please don't tell me they were unbder lock and key because he knew how to get at them regardless.
She also knew his condition was worsening. Else why would she have been looking for places to commit him. I think when she'd leave him home alone for a few days ( that wasn't her first out of town trip) she probably was hoping he would do himself in.
If that kid had been institutionalized none of this would have happened. If she had not fixated on guns & weapons none of this would've happened. Everything starts with her.
And honestly, his father should have been more agressively involved in getting him treatment. I put some of the blame on him. More on her bcz she was custodial parent.
He wasn't autistic. He was schizoid.
Agree with r20
r20, you're confusing a deteriorating mental state with violent intent, as many do thanks to the media.
Part of the problem is the lack of information on the details of his condition.
We simply don't know exactly what his illness was, or how it manifested itself over time.
I watched the PBS doc on him, and not only could they not get concrete info, all the other journalists they interviewed (specifically local paper reporters) had nothing too.
You may in fact be right about her, but I think at the very least, there isn't enough info to make a judgement.
That kid is never, ever going to get a fair trial in America.
The intel lockdown is almost as interesting as this jacked up family.
intel lockdown = NRA
R18. I would gladly tell anyone that was not an arsenal. The skill of the shooter is another issue as is his access to guns as a mentally ill person, but that is not an arsenal.
I don't give two shits about his "deteriorating mental condition" vs violent intent. He had access to guns. Assault weapons. They were stored in his home and he was allowed to develope comfort and familiarity with them and use them.
Even if he had not been permitted to use them, they were there, and they were accessible,he knew his mother used them, and he went to the range to shoot them himself.
Every motherfucker they talked to said the kid was not normal. Everyone. Hid former classmates, his mother's friends, etc. And his mother acknowledged he needed special help and care. There is no fucking way you make guns accessible to a person who is unstable.
I am not afraid to say his mother is an accessory to the killings at Sandy Hook. The boy and his mother are dead. But she put the fucking gun in his hand.
And BTW: If the NRA, or whomever, is responsible for the lock down on info, we need to raise hell and demand the information thru Freedom of Information Act grounds that the public has a right to know WTF happened.
The fucking Batman shooter is being held to a different standard. This guy is dead. He has no more right to privacy. Neither does his mother. Fuck those police officials.
I bet they're hiding behind the parents. The parents want answers too. I think it is past time to quit assing around with the NRA, and get some decent gun laws passed. Fucking NRA.
Doesn't the NRA fight for a person's right to own as many weapons and as much ammo as that person pleases, as long as s/he has not been adjudicated as mentally ill?
Nanza Lanza owned guns and enjoyed target shooting for practice. You'd think she'd be the NRA poster girl.
She had no idea that her son had any violent thoughts. He'd never given any indication of violent tendencies. She treated their target sessions as mother/son bonding time.
I don't get why people want to blame her for what happened. She sought treatment of various kinds for her son, and the police took medication out of that house. I want to know what those medications were, and also what medications were in Adam's body when he died.
Her plan to have him committed set him off. I think it's frighteningly obvious that she was also mentally ill, perhaps worse than he was.
The whole country is mentally ill.
R29, she was looking for a college or university that would suit him, and she was planning to move with him for support. She was not planning on commitment.
Nobody who knew Nancy Lanza has said she showed any signs of mental illness. On the contrary, people who knew her have talked about what a nice person she was.
This really isn't an arsenal. It is three rifles and two pistols with their respective ammunition, that were in the house of two people that used guns.
This graphic also proves its own stupidity by including images of a butcher knife and an air pistol.
Also they use images entire boxes of bullets to symbolize 1/5 of a box, which is either completely ignorant or intentionally misleading.
That said, it's much cheaper to buy ammo in bulk if you like to shoot.
[quote]It's important for any number of reasons, not least an NCR defense.
Adam Lanza's best defense is that he's dead. The courts are quite reluctant to prosecute the dead because it's notoriously difficult to get them to enter a plea.
I disagree, R31. When people spoke in TV interviews about chatting with Nancy in some local bar, what they didn't say - their eyes and their carefully chosen words - said plenty.
Who, besides some shit head American, thinks collecting and using guns is a means of bonding with a troubled adolescent? How about a fucking petting zoo?
She had all the money to get him help. She as much to blame as him
What was the point of all that ammunition?
Was she planning a government take over?
There was a PBS special about the misfortune at Sandy Hook. It was claimed that Adam Lanza had Sensory Integration Disorder and Asperger Syndrome.
If you look at any and all pictures of this fellow, though, you will see that he is always blank. On the PBS special they even showed a home movie of him and he was blank. This kid was dead eyed. It is like he had nothing within him.
I have done volunteer work for the Special Olympics since I was in Middle School and am now middle aged. I am a total layperson. I have never seen a child with dead eyes in all my years of volunteering for the Special Olympics ever.
So this kid had the situation where his parents divorced. His father left them both a really fair amount of money according to the PBS program. His older brother is an innocent in all of this. How does this kid grow up? He goes to school for a bit, freaks out, stays home, goes back, and is eventually homeschooled in a fashion. He is also left to play violent video games and take the odd online class when he is of age. What's his mother's hobby? Shooting guns and such. Now think about it, these folks had plenty of money and they raise their ill child like a baby veal or something. No intervention. No specialized boarding school. No nothing.
I do not know who caused what and am not claiming to. But, it frustrated the hell out of me that people of means were to blind or to much in denial to use their money toward the common good of getting their ill son proper treatment and care. This is all I know.
RELEASE THE SANDY HOOK PHOTOS
R36 ITA with you, excellent post. It definitely makes one wonder what issues the mother had, and if she was hoping, for whatever reason, he would do something drastic.
This is somewhat OT and relates to the conspiracy theories surrounding the Sandy Hook tragedy. To be honest I don't know WHAT to believe anymore. The link below is to an interview that was given by a father of a six year old girl who was murdered at the school. IIRC the interview was within a day or so of the murders.
Regardless of the truth of what happened that day, there is absolutely no way that this man is the father of a child murdered literally hours ago. He is quite possibly the worst actor I have ever seen. It's just odd. Watch it and see what you think.
R35, the ammunition is depicted as much more than the actual amount of ammunition.
A box normally holds 50 or 100 bullets. It is normal for people to buy bulk ammunition if they shoot as a hobby. I bring an my own ammunition and use absolute minimum of 1 box each time I go to the range.
R38 is linking to a video that many use as evidence that Sandy Hook was a barely hidden military op to enact gun control, which would then allow for a hostile military takeover.
It appears obvious this man - Robbie Parker - is not in shock or numb, but he is acting. BADLY. He's sort of queeny and seedy. He is "portraying" grief.
What I would like to know is: who is that man in the interview? Has he been seen again? Have people in Sandy Hook acknowledged that this man is actually a member of the community? His behavior seems patently artificial. Has his identity been verified by anybody?
I wish his mother could be brought back to life and killed again - this time very slowly and very painfully
I think he is in shock (he is very wide-eyed), he is dealing with an aggressive media, with cameras and lights pointed at him, he has had a long, traumatic day, his kid was just murdered, but he is religious so he is insisting on forgiveness and also trying to give a tribute to his daughter, and probably nervous. That's a lot of stuff he is dealing with there. He may also have a nervous type of personality to begin with, so he is dealing with a lot. I wouldn't judge him. Not everyone is going to react by screaming "I'm gonna kill the bastard!`` or whatever. He actually couldn`t scream that because the killer was dead. So what could he say
His eyes are dilated. He's sweaty. He looks coked out.
Dilated eyes, sweating, and moist, clammy skin are all signs of shock.
This man actually reminds me of my father when he came into my bedroom to tell me my preschool-age brother had died. He freaked me out because he looked and behaved so strangely. He did not seem like himself at all. He also said some strange things. It was the trauma of losing his child that sent him into shock.
R34, I am not seeing what you're describing at all in the bar interviews. The owners make a point of saying how Nancy was always doing different things to get help for Adam. They also emphasize that she would have locked up the guns that she owned.
I wish people wouldn't demonize Nancy before all the facts are in. By all accounts, she took Adam to doctors, therapists, and pursued other kinds of treatments, home-schooled him, and tried to protect him from bullying. Her husband left her alone with the two kids, and then her older child moved out and left her alone with Adam. She was determined to help him make a life for himself. If any of the professionals she consulted over the years had foreseen what Adam would do, they would certainly have warned her, and they would certainly have spoken to the press by now. But nobody did.
The gun thing was stupid. I hate guns and want nothing to do with them. But the fact remains that many people in this country collect guns and hunt or do target practice as a hobby. Nancy Lanza was one of them. The gun advocates flip out when anyone talks about gun control. But if guns were carefully controlled, then they wouldn't be in people's houses waiting to be seized up by a kid who wants to do a school shooting.
Where are the toxicology results? It only takes a couple of weeks to get the results after an autopsy, I thought. The young man is dead. There are no privacy concerns. Why the delay?
R26, it's not an arsenal to you because you are some kind of gun nut.
To any normal person, the Lanza kid definitely had an arsenal. That graphic of all those guns and bullets and knives is an arsenal.
[quote]There's absolutely no reason for anyone to have this much ammo.
There's absolutely no reason for homos to have unprotected sex, but you 'mos all cry out if you weren't allowed to.
And society bears the cost of that for decades while you live on disability and food stamps and continue to murder people with your diseases.
What could possibly go wrong?
R47 are we now going to start regulating knives because of that big scary arsenal?
You are dense, r50.
R51 - well that certainly enlightened me. Wow, your thoughtful, intelligent posts are persuasive.
[quote] Psychotic breaks are common for Prozac users.
No, they're not.
I am no gun advocate at all, but are you suggesting, R45, that the government was required to supply Nancy Lanza with common sense? That some big brother style gun control laws would have prevented this woman from her own lack of sense and judgment? Scary.
Fifty years ago, Adam Lanza would most likely have been put into an institution as a young child surrounded by people who were trained to handle his condition and not buy him guns. He was out of control and his father couldn't take it anymore and left him with his unstable mother. It is very hard to commit someone these days. No government or insurance company wants to pay for mental homes. Maybe Adam should have gone to live with his father. Maybe dad wouldn't have bought the guns.
R38- I saw that dad on Piers about a month ago. I think like another poster said he was in shock. I can be a tin hatter but even I can not accept that the Sandy Hook incident was faked...
"What the fuck was his mother thinking? . She was just as nuts"
Not quite. She didn't murder people.
What is that bag of feed corn at the bottom of the picture?
There's a reason why Nancy Lanza's husband left her. She was a cukoo head.
She didn't just have guns, she had huge knives and a samurai sword in the house. This is the same woman who warned a babysitter to never turn his back on Adam.
She claimed he had Asperger's syndrome. Look at him. Asperger's is a mild psychiatric condition. Did 6 ft tall, 110 lb Adam Lanza look like he had a mild condition?
She claimed he had congenital insensitivity to pain with anhidrosis (CIPA) that left him unable to feel pain, heat, or cold. He didn't. That is a specific neurological condition of an underdeveloped nervous system requiring very specific treatment. He probably had pain insensitivity, which is a symptom of a mental illness that is most likely psychotic.
She was in complete denial about his condition. After the killings, investigators couldn't find a therapist for Adam Lanza or a program that he was enrolled in. Nancy Lanza isolated her psychotic child and herself and thought, "I'll bet shooting with real guns would make a really good bonding experience, since my son loves violent video games!"
I'd get the fuck out of that house, too, just like her husband and other son did.
FF the NRA troll at r52
I agree with what you wrote, R55
[quote] The owners make a point of saying how Nancy was always doing different things to get help for Adam.
The interviews of the barflys that I've read claim things like "I asked her if she was getting help for him and she said she was." No mention of what that help was -- just that Nancy Lanza claimed she was getting help. But nobody could find anything specific. Adam had a permanent school psychologist assigned to him at the high school. Nancy Lanza promptly pulled him out of high school.
Other bar pals said Nancy considered moving to Washington state or to NC so Adam could go to a college for special needs students. That's not the same thing as getting psychiatric help for your son who is burning himself with cigarette lighters. She taught him to drive. Look at him! She was trying to make a functioning adult out of an obviously very, very psychiatrically disturbed man.
The owner of Tambiascio's pizzeria, Louise Tambiacio said, "Her family life was her family life. She kept it private, when we were together. That was her own thing."
Nobody has made any statement of any real knowledge of what kind of help Nancy Lanza was getting for her son. Time and again, you hear of Nancy taking Adam out of school, homeschooling him, sending him to college at age 16, teaching him to drive, taking him shooting, planning to move to different states, etc. All Nancy-driven activities. No mention of therapy; no mention of doing something that a therapist had advised. It was always what Nancy decided to do.
I can't imagine, for example, a therapist telling Nancy Lanza to enroll her son in college classes at age 16 when he couldn't handle attending high school. It sounds like a very unnerving experience for a kid who couldn't handle high school. I can't imagine a therapist telling Nancy to teach Adam to drive. Or bond with him over firearms. Adam Lanza looked as if he could not even comprehend his basic nutritional needs and yet she was worried about him learning to drive and getting a college degree? Talk about misplaced priorities.
He looked exactly like my partner's schizophrenic brother.
I also agree with R55. Dad couldn't take it so he just left and dumped the kid on the mother. He should really be more accountable.
But, let's all remember...Miss Nancy Thing do be dead now, so I think we can all agree she received her comeuppance.
R60 - yes I do belong to the NRA. FF R60 for being a single minded fool.
My partner is a therapist. He has done therapy with countless kids with Asperger's. Do you know how he starts out? He takes them to 711 and they buy candy or popcorn. He tells them to watch how he decides what to buy, how he gets what he wants, how he pays for it. After a few times, he has the kid order and pay for something while he stands right next to them and let's them know he is there to help.
After a few times of the kid ordering, they "graduate" to going to McDonald's. My partner orders for them both, pays and they sit down and eat together, like the other patrons. He cracks stupid jokes. They talk about cartoons or comic books or fun things to do on the computer. Not violent video games. He doesn't like them and plainly tells kids, "i don't like violent games and don't want to talk about them."
Eventually the kid loosens up enough to order his own food. Eventually he orders and pays for his own food.
The most basic therapy for kids with Asperger's is to help socialize them. Do mundane things that everyone else finds very easy. That's how you treat Asperger's. The kids may never be as at-ease with the world as everyone else is, but they learn how to do basic things around other people without having paralyzingly fear.
Contrast this with neighbors talking about how they never saw Adam Lanza. He stayed inside the house. When he was younger, his mother tried to get him to have other kids over, to have him join in activities. It didn't work. It seems the pressure to do basic socializing was too much for Adam. He got worse. That is not someone with Asperger's. That is someone with a deteriorating psychiatric illness.
He was psychotic. You can't treat a psychotic person as if they had Asperger's. And that is probably why Nancy Lanza did everything with Adam herself. She could not accept that her son was irretrievably psychotic and that he would never go on to have a normal -- or even just a slightly abnormal -- life. I'm betting she was told time and again as he got older that he did not have Asperger's but was instead schizophrenic. But she was going to rescue him and make everything all right. She was Supermom.
r65 we can trolldar you and see that you're the one with the NRA talking points. The only fool here is YOU.
Never once have I said I wasn't a member of the NRA. I am stunned by the discussion about types of guns, "arsenals", bans, etc in this forum by people who have clearly never seen or touched a firearm. I love how the media throws out words like "arsenal" to get people all enraged about gun control when the true issue here is an irresponsible mother and a child who should have gotten treatment.
This kid was a freak. And ugly. It's a good thing the world is rid of him.
James Holmes, on the other hand, had a rockin bod, banged plebty of chicks and had great taste in music. It's disgusting that Colorado is seeking the death penalty.
That is as ridiculous as it can get!
Would you agree that she did not need all of those guns, ammo and knives to protect herself? A simple handgun and a box of bullets would have done the trick against a home invader. And if someone wants all those guns and ammo for recreation purposes, they should have the option to store them at a firing range.
She obviously didn't store them properly or else her son would not have been able to get at them. A glass gun closet is no proper way to store arms. Anyone can break glass and get at them. My uncle had a gun collection in his basement in a wooden display cabinet with glass walls. It was locked. He spent the winter in FL, came home and found his house had been burglarized and all of his guns stolen after the thieves broke the glass. He made an insurance claim and replaced the guns when he got his check. The thieves came back 6 months later, figuring he'd received his insurance check and replaced his guns by then. They used a bolt cutter anda drill and stole the new guns.
Just go back to Freeper Land, gun nut r68. You aren't wanted here.
I don't care how expert you are with guns and firearms, nor how many guns you legally own and store safely, but trying to quibble with the word 'arsenal' just reveals how blind you are to the truth in this Lanza case, r68.
It's not for me to say who needs or doesn't need anything.
I have no idea what she used them for. I do A LOT of shooting and have a collection several times the size of what she had. Some are historical, some I have inherited, some are collector's items, some are used for hunting, some for sporting clays, others for target/range competitions, etc. She could have had the same hobby as me and used them all so I can't really express an opinion on her needs.
However, I will say she was completely irresponsible. Our firearms are kept in a secured room with its own alarm system so no one is going to get in there and if they do, we get notified. To have weapons out with someone that unstable in the home is horrible.
And what you didn't have was all that ammo R74
R73, your lack of knowledge, combined with blindly using the word arsenal because it supports your views, is reflective of you as well.
My point has been the media and law makers are throwing around the word arsenal, random "facts" on assault weapons, size of magazines, etc to ignite an audience of people without first hand knowledge that are easily guided. It's sad that so many fall for it.
[quote] Our firearms are kept in a secured room with its own alarm system
What if someone breaks into your house when you are asleep one night? You have to get up, get to the gun room undetected and disarm the alarm system, get inside, grab a gun and hope the intruder doesn't shoot you before you get there or on your way out of said gun room.
R76, I don't think it's the word "arsenal" that puts people off guns. It's the growing pile of dead kids.
Video games. I blame video games!!!
6 foot tall and 110 pounds? She was starving him. This was some serious child abuse.
R78, he obviously would be wearing a revolver attached to his wrist on a sliding drawer thingy, like Travis Bickle.
She starved him, she isolated him. She made him her personal slave.
There are three accepted definitions of the word arsenal.
One is "an establishment for the manufacture or storage of arms and military equipment"
Another is "a collection of weapons"
A third is "store, repertoire, eg, the team's arsenal of veteran players"
She had an arsenal according to Miriam Webster, who outranks you when it comes to the meaning of words.
A building or place where weapons and military equipment are made or stored; a collection of weapons.
Ut oh, Cabridge also says Nancy Lanza had an arsenal.
Looks like you are losing the word meaning war
R74 - You are way, way wrong there. Not only do I usually keep a decent amount around, but I also reload my own ammunition because of the amount I use.
R78 - I don't have any of these with security as the primary usage. I have an alarm system and a very, very large dog. Also, not really in a high crime area. However, the secured room is built out of a part of a sitting room off the master suite, so yeah I could get to them quite easily by the time anyone could get to that part of the house.
1. a large group of weapons that someone has:
2. a building where weapons are stored
3. the equipment, methods etc that someone can use to help them achieve something:
Eg, a software package that's now part of our arsenal
Girlfriend had an arsenal
I read that Adam cut out all contact with his father after his father remarried. Adam was 18. Previously, he spent every other weekend with his dad.
I agree, this kids parents failed him. I know for a fact that Newtown Public Schools offers more assistance to special needs kids than most districts throughout the country. People move there for it. If he'd ever been diagnosed with autism, he could have done a program at Western or UConn for free until he was 21. Services were available to him, but his parents did nothing about it.
[quote] 6 foot tall and 110 pounds? She was starving him. This was some serious child abuse.
My partner's brother is schizophrenic. He is 6'2 and weighs 118. He barely eats. His parents make all kinds of food available to him, but he doesn't eat it. You can't force a grown man to eat.
It's part of the illness. They are so out-to-lunch (pun intended) that simple things like eating enough food and getting enough sleep are meaningless to them. My BIL can stay up for days at a time, never sleeping. His parents take shifts sleeping at night so that he doesn't wander around the house doing things like stuffing the toilet with toilet paper and flooding the bathroom or turning the gas stove on and setting the house on fire or gassing everyone in their sleep.
His parents had a chance to put him in a secure group home near their house 25 years ago. They could have visited him every day. But like Nancy Lanza, his mother insists on being in charge of his care. She is the Great Martyr and some day she will make sure that some cure is found and he will be restored to her, as perfect as he was when he was an infant.
Denial is a powerful weapon for a parent.
She wasn't starving him! When she went on short trips elsewhere, which she reportedly did partly to teach him to take care of himself, she prepared meals in advance for him to reheat and serve himself.
By the way, Adam Lanza was an adult, and therefore he could not be legally institutionalized against his will UNLESS he was diagnosed as presenting a clear danger to himself or other people. There is no evidence that any of the professionals who dealt with Adam (school, medical, university) ever made such a diagnosis. A number of people have gone on record saying that Adam never showed any signs of becoming violent.
Interestly, nobody ever questioned his presence on the gun range, either. He came and went from the practice range like everyone else, provoking no comment. If he were noticeably unstable on his visits there, surely somebody would have said something.
Please R90. The barbershop people noticed he was not stable. The neighbors noticed he was not stable. The babysitter noticed he was not stable. The school noticed he was not stable, otherwise his mother wouldn't have taken him out.
States have made it EXTREMELY difficult to institutionalize people because the states don't want to pay for it. Families, except extraordinarily wealthy people like the Kennedys, can't afford lifetime institutionalization, so it would fall to the states to pick up the tab. Why do you think every state in the union has pulled down all of the psychiatric hospitals except for a few for the criminally insane? They were hellishly expensive to staff and run and getting more expensive as families and patients began suing for the slightest thing.
My neighbor's nephew attended a "sheltered workshop" at a day psychiatric program. He knicked off a miniscule portion of the tip of his finger somehow and the family sued, asking for a million dollars. The program was then shut down. Why have something for crazy people when they do crazy things and then sue your ass off?
I don't think it's right to have shut down the state psychiatric hospitals, but it was equally not right for people to try and use every accident or medication reaction as a payday. But that's what was happening.
People demanded that their taxes be reduced. Well, my state has actually cut taxes significantly since the 1970s. It closed down the entire psychiatric system, cut funding for medical interns, cut the consumer affairs department to a cartoon of its former self, jacked up tuition at state colleges and gives humongous tax breaks to corporations.
And here we are.
Do you honestly you think that all it ever took to institutionalize people was for the local denizens of the barbershop to notice he was a weirdo? Sometimes disturbed/bad/whatever people are simply free to do what they wish. What the shouldn't have access to is an arsenal of automatic weaponry and bullets.
OK, R91. I agree that the mental health system in this country has been reduced to a pittance. So what options did that leave Nancy Lanza? In her final days, she was already planning to move out of state to a place where Adam could study in residence and she could live near him.
Additionally, you called Adam "not stable." Actually, what people noticed about Adam Lanza was that he was always extremely quiet and withdrawn, to the point of not speaking to people. He was very consistent in this. One could call that being stable, in that he didn't change and was always exactly the same. "Not stable" doesn't really fit.
Being socially awkward is different from being violent. People at school noticed he was "shy" and administrators were worried that he would be a target of bullies. But I never heard a thing about him being violent prior to the shootings.
No. It took one family member and one doctor to institutionalize someone. A man could lock up his menopausal or postpartum depression wife for the rest of her life so long as he could get a doctor to agree to sign the commitment papers. It was remarkably easy to do so.
I did my psychiatric clinical training at a now defunct state institution where many women were locked away by husbands or by children who simply wanted the house. One man we contacted was told by his father that his mother had died when he was 10 years old. He was overjoyed to hear his mother was still alive and flew from TX to NY to see her before she died. She was depressed, that's all. A nice enough little old lady who never caused the slightest trouble in the hospital, but limited educationally and socially.
Her husband didn't want to pay alimony or lose custody of his son, so he had her institutionalized, divorced her after she was committed and married another woman. On her committal papers it said she tried to commit suicide. Whether she did or not was never known. She spent 37 years locked up.
[quote] Being socially awkward is different from being violent.
Adam Lanza wasn't "socially awkward." When he went to get his hair cut, he did not speak, he looked down at the floor, he did not respond to the barber when asked to come sit in the chair. He only responded to his mother telling him what to do. And again, he did not speak at all.
That's not "socially awkward." That's mentally disturbed.
Being unstable is not synonymous with being violent. His mother told a man at My Place that Adam was burning himself with lighters. That's unstable. She told people that Adam suffered from the inability to feel pain (which was probably the inability to respond to pain). That's not "shyness." She told the babysitter to never turn her back on Adam, not even to go to the bathroom.
That's not just a shy, socially awkward boy. The inability to look at, speak to or respond to others, to inability to respond to pain, the inability to be left unwatched for even one minute and the penchant for burning oneself are signs of an unstable individual.
Errant or disobedient wives were locked away frequently in the US and UK, not just ones that were depressed. Husbands and parents of children had the power to do that, with the assistance of one doctor.
Parents like playwright Arthur Miller and his wife warehoused their Down Syndrome or otherwise impaired children in mental institutions, although to be fair Inge Miller wanted to bring her newborn son home and never stopped visiting him in the institution. Arthur Miller never went to see his son. That was fairly normal behavior in the 60s and earlier.
There was a kid in my town who was lobotomized at age 12 at his stepmother's insistence when there was nothing wrong with him mentally. Subsequently, he was warehoused in Agnews State Hospital, a notorious snake pit in the Bay Area. Many years later, after he was released, he wrote a book about his experiences, called "My Lobotomy."
From 2001 to 2010, Peter Lanza took both brothers out every weekend and did normal recreational stuff with them. 2001 is when Peter and Nancy Lanza separated, and 2010 is when Peter Lanza moved a new woman into his house, who eventually became his second wife, and the Lanza divorce moved toward finalization.
If young Adam was noticeably disturbed in some way all those weekends, surely Peter Lanza would have taken some action? The parents had joint custody of Adam, although he lived with Nancy.
The babysitter story happened back when Adam was a child. When he was an adult, he didn't want to accompany Nancy on short trips, so he stayed at home on his own, taking care of himself. Clearly he gave no signs then that he couldn't stay unwatched.
All I'm saying is that nobody could tell what was going to happen. So why demonize Nancy? I want to know what prescription medications he was taking that could have caused him to have a psychotic break. Medications like Prozac and other SSRIs have been implicated in other school shootings. The legal black box warnings on the packages advise that violent or suicidal ideation can occur, especially in young people.
Weapons. There should have been no weapons in his home, or at the very least they should have been LOCKED UP!
r59- I completely agree with your comments.
Uh, the dad was into guns too. I'm not sure why everyone is treating him like his abandonment was a good thing. Can you imagine if it was the mom who took off? She'd be crucified. Is it b/c he's rich and a man?
r102, he didn't abandon the family, they divorced. Like half of all couples do, the risk is even higher when one of the kids has serious problems. He saw his kids every weekend. Adam cut him off when he remarried and refused to have any contact with him. The father was probably relieved.
He learned his son was responsible for what happened from a reporter waiting for him at his house. I don't think he had any idea how fucked up the kid was.
[quote] If young Adam was noticeably disturbed in some way all those weekends, surely Peter Lanza would have taken some action
Adam also cut off all communication with his only brother.
Yuh, I'm sure Adam's father would have noticed if there was anything unstable about him.
[quote] When he took a placement exam in May 2008, Lanza refused to answer some background questions — including his gender.
Yeah. Just a shy kid. A little socially awkward about ... like, his identity.
socially awkward = mentally disturbed
R67- I know I shouldn't laugh..but that picture sums it up!