It should have been a miniseries. There's too much in the book for a movie.
They made the villain (the baron) into a carton character.
The circa 2000 miniseries with William Hurt was better.
David Lynch was not given final cut approval.
No, R2, it wasn't.
If the Dune movie had been about two hours longer (or split into two full movies), it might have helped.
There was some really bad effects work towards the end, even for the time.
And the end was just head-scratching for anyone who didn't read the books (and the people that read the books were probably face-palming).
It came so close to good, which is why it seems so disappointing.
You're not going to have a five hour movie.
And yes, the miniseries was better.
No, it really wasn't. I couldn't even sit through it, it was so bad. Baron Harkonen was a cleaned up prissy priest, instead of a disgusting monster. The entire production was so ... sanitized. It looked more like a spare stage play than a movie. The Lynch movie at least got a lot of the looks right.
[*] Looooong Cartoon opening exposition.
[*] Voiceovers of character's thoughts.
[*] OTT performances.
[*] Inept direction.
[*] and Toto.
They hired Sting.
"Baron Harkonen was a cleaned up prissy priest, instead of a disgusting monster"
That's closer to the book. He appeared to be calculating, rather than a silly floating fat man.
R7's right. The Lynch whining doesn't make up for the fact that he got it all wrong.
And add the absurd casting of Kyle MacLachlan, who is two-dimensional and unappealing.
DUNE is a particularly problematic piece in the first place, and attempting to film it was bold but naive. All Lynch accomplished was to somehow manage making it both less accessible and more obviously silly than the novel is.
[quote]That's closer to the book. He appeared to be calculating, rather than a silly floating fat man.
I've read the book twice. He was disgusting, with festering sores. Heart plugs and young boys booby-trapped with poison needles on their inner thighs...
The miniseries wasn't even close to the book. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
R11 - He was a little cleaned up in the miniseries, but they captured his evil brilliance there. They did not do that in the miniseries.
Trivia question- other than Kyle, who else was in both Dune '84 and Twin Peaks?
Everett McGill ... the guy who played Stilgar in Dune.
And someone else.
Jack Nance was in both.
ok, so...say HBO decides to do a full, single season of Dune:
Thirteen episodes minimum, eighteen episodes maximum, with a budget comparable to a season of Game of Thrones...
Who should direct? (Cronenberg? Give Lynch a second shot? Fincher?) Name your cast!
And Alicia Witt (Youngestbsister of Donna Heywood)
Sherilyn Fenn should play the Lady Jessica.
John Slattery as Duke Leto
The lead from The Perks of Being a Wallflower might be a good Paul, but I'm not sure.
I seem to remember in the first DUNE book something about Baron Harkonen liking to have his servant boys have a heart plug that he could pull out, killing them.
Am I remembering this correctly?
R19, all his slaves had heart-plugs. If they disobeyed, the plug was pulled.
I know I'm in minority but I love that film. But I love anything Dune related, the books, mini series, film. Except I never wanted to read Herbert's son's books. Are they any good?
I liked the 1984 film too, r21.
The prequels by Anderson and Brian Herbert are ok, not great, but not completely a waste of time.
If you people are interested in the Dune adaptations you should read about the Alejandro Jodorowsky project. It was ridiculous in scope and budget (he intended to do a 13 hour long movie) and it was destined to fail from the get-go. Still a very interesting story and there is very nice character and concept art done by HR Gigger and Moebius out there.
The "spice" so coveted by everyone is only found on that one planet and, in reality, is worm castings.
Is this correct?
R27 - basically yes,
The little girl who played Alia was good. I agree that the Sci-Fi mini series was better. Having read all the books, I highly recommend them. Each is stand-alone, and progresses or delves into the past with the various plots. You learn what the Axolotl tanks are, how the spacing guild, Bene Gesserit, and Honored Matres came about. There's more sequels, prequels planned as well. See my modest Dune collection on facebook.
The Shadout Mapes turned 68 today.
If she were a few years younger, she and Peter Dinkledge might have made a cute couple. Like little wedding cake toppers.
Is Herbert ever say in his books what it is the giant sandworms eat on the planet?
We know what comes out, we just need to know what goes in. In my recollection, Herbert never said what the worms' diet is.
I know they like to eat Fremen and spice harvester personnel when thayI can get a hold of them.
[quote]What went wrong?
Ruined the fucking movie.
R32. I think the voice overs were in the edited version. I remember there were two versions by Lynch. One was much longer and didn't contain the voice overs. Then again, it's been awhile and I may be remembering incorrectly. There were two versions though.
The Spice Must Flow
It was possibly the funniest unintentional comedy of all time. They got very little right and much of it wrong. It was such a mess that they handed out a sheet at the movie that explains what the planets are etc so on.Alicia Witt's closing line was pure hilarity as it seemed to be a scene in another film!
The casting was abysmal. Sean Young should have played it for camp.Richard Jordan looked like he was in a stage play gone wrong. Francesca Annis looked five minutes older than Kyle MacLachlan yet played his mom!?Alicia Witt's bad dubbing didn't fit her mouth motions!
There was a so-called Alan Smithee version of the Dune film that got to TV. Alan Smithee is used as a director's name when the director disowns a project. The TV version of Dune supposedly even had different scenes.
I recall seeing it when it first opened and bursted out laughing during Virginia Madsen's incoherent opening prologue and it set the audience off. I enjoyed it, but honestly, I still have no idea what is going on. And besides, Sian Phillips was fabulous.
At the risk of setting-off all the gay "comic book man",men...?
I never read the book,(GASP!,clutch pearls.).
To me David Lynch's Dune,is exactly what I want from any of his films. Two (or so) hours of his brilliant visions,gorgeously photographed. He says he thinks it's funny so much time has been spent trying to figure out the "meaning" of his stories. I'm not saying that's what's happening here. This is a THE BOOK WAS SOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN THE MOVIE, bitch fest.
Still it doesn't matter at all,to me,what MH,LH,EH,TP,or,FWWM,et all, are "about".
I love every film David Lynch ever put his name on,for how they look and feel,and how I feel when I'm watching them.
"What do you know about the ear?" "I hear things,bits and pieces" HA!
The book was so much better than the movie. The book had a message - in fact, several messages. The movie lost that.
Heart plug scene!
That floating fatman was something else!
David Lynch is a genius. You bitches should be grateful for EVERY FRAME OF FILM HE MAKES. His Dune is not a good adaptation of the book. It may not even be a good movie. But it is a wonder for the senses and a beautifully weird experience out of a very rare mind. Appreciate it, you cunts! And read the book, it's a classic.
R42 has a weirding module crammed up his ass.
I tried to read it, but needing to include a big glossary for all your twee Dune world words grew incredibly tiresome. After about 150 pages I was so bored, I stopped. It's a dreary mess, but that makes it popular, I guess!
"And add the absurd casting of Kyle MacLachlan, who is two-dimensional and unappealing."
Kyle MacLachlan is a fine, fine actor.....now. Thirty years. Ago he had not yet learned his craft.
For he is the Quizat Haderach!!!
History will call us wives.
OP has just emerged from his 30 year time warp, a strange and marvelous journey from back in time......
When Kyle Macclanahan was born, his chin lacerated his mother's vulva, leaving her a bleeding pulpy mess.
I enjoyed reading Dune but I often found the Arrakis parts to be exceedingly boring. The most fun was of course the political intrigues between House Atreides, House Harkonnen and the Emperor.
Dune is the rare science fiction novel that deepens as one reads its sequels. (Elder Herbert works only, of course.) I think it's actually a fine books on its own merits as well and in many ways as important to the genre as Tolkien.
I have a soft spot for the film because my older brothers liked it and as kid brother I would watch it with them. They laughed--as teenagers in the '80s--at its strangeness but also liked it on some level. That's how I feel about it, too. And it *is* beautiful.
*as Tolkien is to fantasy.
I'm another who preferred the film's Baron Harkonnen to the miniseries. The film's version was much more creepy and menacing.
Has anyone positively determined what Frank Herbert's favorite drug was?
He must've been on something to come up with his Dune universe.
LSD, do you think?
Dune is to scifi what LotR is to fantasy. Elder Herbert's books gave literary cred to the whole genre, even more than Asimov, Heinlein, etc. The son's books are fun, but I sort of look at it like not every book you might read about Lincoln is Sandburg or Vidal.
Lynch's Dune gets a lot of the visual stuff right in my mind. Kyle McLachlan and Sting were both 20 years older than the characters they played, which was stupid. The prologue was tolerable, given that Irulan's memoirs are supposed to be the source material for the novel. Still, the voice overs made me say WTF? and I was only 17.
The voice-overs were unforgivable. That, as well as the attempt to mechanize the Bene Gesserit training (the "weirding" boxes they wore on their necks) and the creation of the "folding space" notion from whole cloth (prior to the movie, the hyperdrive had nothing to do with the Navigators' ability to see the safest shortest path) all pissed me off. The Herberts did keep the folding space idea though.
and RAIN? RAIN? REALLY? Do you know ANYTHING ABOUT WEATHER AND DESERTS? That just crawled up my ass.
R55 - I agree about the rain. That was stupid.
I only read the first book, so I don't understand the beef about rain.
Can anyone illuminate?
The changes in the climate of Dune needed to produce a rainstorm don't happen overnight. They take decades.
But isn't water toxic to the giant sandworms?
Yes, R59, which reduces the flow of spice and allows for Paul's son to consolidate his rule over the ENTIRE UNIVERSE!
Yeah but, no but, yeah but – that other group discovered how to synthesize the spice, yes?
Or was that in a later book?
That was "Chapterhouse," I think, R61--last book of the original series. The Ixians, right?
Yeah, I think so.
I know the Bene Gesserit didn't think it was a potent as the Arrakis spice.
The Guild Navigators thought is was weak too.
There were several earlier attempts to get a Dune film before the cameras. In the mid seventies, one of those aborted projects had lined up Orson Welles as Baron Harkonnen, which could have been awesome.
It also had Salvador Dali as the Emperor. Gloria Swanson was also on board.
Dali demanded to be paid $100,000 per hour. The director, Alejandro Jodorowsky, agreed, and then scheduled him for just one hour of shooting, intending to use a mechanical dummy of Dali to fill in other shots.
Gurney was supposed to be ugly, but was played by Patrick Stewart.
[quote]and RAIN? RAIN? REALLY? Do you know ANYTHING ABOUT WEATHER AND DESERTS? That just crawled up my ass.
How can this be?
Did Herbert ever talk about what the characters in his Dune universe eat?
I don't recall any discussion of what the diet of say anyone and house Atriedes is? What did the Padishah Emperor eat? Or the Bene Gesserit.
Occasionally he mentions someone or some group ingesting huge amounts of spice. But that's it!
Lynch a brilliant director? He isn't even a hack. He does something odd or weird and people think it's edgy and artistic.
Eraserhead was fun when it came out because it was unusual. period. it does not hold up over time...at all...
That stupid T.V. Machine show. Oooooo luck I'm carrying a log around.
Plus he is TOTALLY a right wing cultist. I know...I know the people he is involved with in TM...I got out...they are authoritarian right wing fundamentalists..
Mullholland Dr. is brilliant.
"If she were a few years younger, she and Peter Dinkledge might have made a cute couple."
She's a lesbian, so Dinklage would need a sex change.
R72. They ate SLIG, presumably a genetic combination of pigs and slugs. Supposed to be quite delicious.
Mull. dr. brilliant????? Really..
Then I would imagine 90210 is your touchstone .
But I'll admit - I thought you were joking with me till I looked it up.
I only read the first book, so those SLIGs were new to me. Incredible.
Those Bene Tleilax were a clever bunch, yes?
Mullholand dr was a failed series/pilot for ABC. Can you imagine the lesbo scenes on ABC? Sure NYPD Blue had nudity BUT things became more conservative as time went.....
R72, you really might want to try actually paying attention to the books. Food is often mentioned, and of course it differs from planet to planet. On Caladan, for example, seafood was the primary food source (being an ocean planet), and everyone everywhere consumed spice cakes, spice coffee, various meats, local vegetables, etc.
God, did you even READ the books?
I like the 1984 "Dune". It's certainly not without faults, and, yes, the special effects are a bit wanting by today's standards, but it is moody and highly atmospheric -- two things I appreciate in science fiction films.
But then I'm not a big sci-fi fan, and not interested in Herbert's saga or in learning the fine points of fictional languages. Without the burden of the sci-fi/Herbert geek, it's an interesting film that does a rather good job of creating an imagined world.
R81, if you are not a big sci-fi fan and not interested in Herbert's saga, then what the fuck are you doing on this thread? This thread is not for you, it will never be for you, and DUNE is most certainly not for you. GTFO and leave discussion of Dune to those of us who know it and love it.
I did, r80, I read the first one, "Dune."
However, this was about 35 years ago and memory fades.
Just a passive Dune fan, not as deep as you must be, apparently.
Thanks for knowledge of Dune-lore.