Is pressure for gays to get married going to be the norm now?
My partner of six years, just ten minutes ago, asked me what I've been dreading. "Should we get married?"
We have three sets of coupled friends who are now married. They're wondering why we're not married.
We're not married because -- well, I don't know why. I'm aware of the material benefits of getting married but I just don't give a shit about getting married.
I sort of feel like it's ludicrous for gay people to emulate a straight institution. And it *is* a straight institution.
Don't get it wrong, I believe very strongly that gays should have the right to get married if they choose. But I can quickly see this turning into a situation where gays starts to judge other gays, whether in a relationship or not, who choose, for whatever reason, not to marry. Just like straight people do the same to other straights who choose not to marry.
And fuck that.
The Supreme Court is going to drop a bomb, OP. Every gay couple together for at least two months will HAVE to get married.
I am afraid you are right. Luckily we agreed years ago we do not need god, any church or government to sanctify our relationship
R1. This is based on????
R3 Its based on the fact that you don't recognize satire when you see it.
I'm in the same boat OP. My partner wants to marry, I never did. All my friends are doing it and every time a new person brings it up my partner starts to tear up.
Really - This is your concern - that your partner of of six years might want to get married - This is about you having the ability to decide to get married or not - If you don't want to, have the balls to tell him so - I have been with my husband for 17 years - we were married in the Virgin Islands in 2007 - I'm tired of my federal and state government treating us like we are room mates. I don't want to pressure any couple, gay or straight, to get married, but we damn well should have the option, if we want it. I'm not sure who R2's we are - I don't need God or any church to sanctify my marriage but I demand that my country recognize it.
Its kind of funny, I dont go to gay bars that much but a few weeks ago I was in Key West with some friends. The number of guys I met and saw who had wedding bands on was remarkable. I realized that when checking a man out, I now have to add "look for a ring" to my check list (along with, does it look like he takes care of himself, lets see the teeth, and is he smoking?)
Likely so, OP.
In gay quarters, it seems this has already happened in the gayby business. Gays and lesbians having kids seems for many a sort of good-as-you proof of being just like straight people. Good gays and lesbians have kids; for some it's almost a line drawn in the sand to separate themselves from those filthy sex fiends who can't settle down and live respectably.
There is something ludicrous about picking up the trappings of straight marriage and families as scout badges of a sort. Of course if gays and lesbians truly want marriage or children, there's nothing wrong in the least about that, but just because straights have long had the luxury of unthinkingly falling into expectation by marrying and having children doesn't validate the "unthinkingly" part or the part about filling out other people's expectations.
Not to mention, R7, does the wedding band mean to a male or female...
And R3, are you kidding me????
Really, OP, it's the same situation as we worried about 40 years ago: do we really care about other people's perceptions about us or our relationships?
Forty years ago, before there was even a hint of talk about getting married, we had to take the bold move of living openly and not pretending to be single. If we had worried about what our families or our neighbors were going to say we never would have done it. But we did. (And then we had to worry then about what the gay community thought because they thought any couple, married or not, was just imitating heterosexual relationships.)
So if you can marry but don't want to get married, then fine and dandy. Do what you want.
Personally I'm going to wait and see what the SCOTUS actually says. I'm not sure we're going to be all that pleased but, then again, we might be tickled, pardon the expression, pink.
Yes, the pressure will be on to get married. Why wouldn't it be? Maybe not initially, but if a couple dates for a two or three years, one of the partners (or a partner's family and friends) will eventually ask consciously or unconsciously, "Where is this relationship going?"
If we want the opportunity to marry, then we have to take the advantages and disadvantages. In other words, 'in good times and in bad.'
R8 - Isn't that exactly the point - Unlike Straight couples, gay couples are not expected to graduate college, get a good job, marry, have kids and live happily ever after - We have a completely different life trajectory - But if you or me wants to get married, have kids etc, we should have the right to do so - I don't want to be like straight couples, gay couples or anyone else, I just want to be who I am and be able to make my own decision about my life and my relationship - If anyone looks down on other gay couples who don't want to get married or have kids, that is their own insecurity showing - Demanding respect for every persons decision about their life and their love is exactly what we are fighting for.
File this under: Be careful what you wish for.
Or R11, you could just not give a fuck and not be a lap dog running after people's approval.
"My partner wants to marry, I never did. All my friends are doing it and every time a new person brings it up my partner starts to tear up."
That's cold. Do you enjoy having him tear up?
If Prop 8 goes away and marriage resumes in California, another 12.5% of the United States population will be eligible.
I don't think it's about being "just like straight people". I think it's about the same things some straights want. Commitment, belonging to another, or as poor Sandra Bullock said before she found out what she had married, backup.
Of course lots of straight men don't want to get married. Do you consider your position on not marrying to be "just like straight people"?
I'm already starting to dread "Ginny in billing" asking the gays if they are going to get married.
[quote]we do not need god, any church or government to sanctify our relationship
It must be nice to have so much money that you can just throw it away, even though partnered.
I'm old, looks are gone, no companion.
History has passed me by.
R19 - Please expand on your post
LMAO...after gay marriage was passed in New York, the Times had a good article featuring couples who had no intentions on getting married. I know so many gay couples of have had civil unions or even gotten married, but the lack of federal recognition made them act like they were merely "going steady" or something. It'll be interesting to see how gay men especially adapt to being in real marriages (we'll probably be as inept as our straight counterparts). Marriage is a dying institution, but equality is equality and it's never a bad thing to fight for what's right.
R21, R19 is implying that gay couples who are married are financially penalized come tax time.
(cue the violin)
We have as much right to be in miserable marriages as they do!!!!
Never marry poor people.
Funny you should say that, R25. A lot of the gay wedding announcements in the Times consist of one partner who's wealthy/accomplished and one partner who's clearly taking the other for a ride (so to speak).
Seriously R26 - The New York Times Marriage announcements have always been about Class warfare - that is what has made them so fun to read over the years - I am glad that they haven't changed the standard for gay wedding announcements - Can't wait to read that "this is Rick's second marriage, his first ended in divorce"
[quote] The New York Times Marriage announcements have always been about Class warfare
R26, that is not true at all.
In 99 percent or 100 percent of the gay wedding announcements in the New York Times, the two people marrying are equal in job status and job achievement.
I don't know where you came up with your erroneous statement about gay couples in the NY Times having a less accomplished partner taking a more accomplished partner for a ride.
Also none of the gay couples in the NY Times have one or two persons in the marriage who is wealthy. I read all of the marriage announcements in the NY Times and have done so for several decades and none of the gay couples have even one person who is wealthy.
[quote]I read all of the marriage announcements in the NY Times and have done so for several decades
Dimwit cretin R30:
If one has read and subscribed to the New York Times for 30 years which is an important source of knowledge, it is not a stretch to have also read the marriage announcements in the New York Times that one reads every day and has subscribed to for three decades.
R28 - Have you ever read an announcement about a subway worker marrying a garbage man? I probably was wrong to say it is about class warfare but it is definitely about who you know and how you are connected in NYC - I have been reading the announcements for more years than I would like to admit to but lets be honest - It is hardly representative of the weddings taking place in NYC during any given month and certainly not representative of the gay population and why they want the right to marry.
It still seems sad that you sat there and read wedding announcements. Poor dear. Don't jump...it will get better.
R33, you sound particularly uninteresting.
You're a fucking idiot, R29. I don't even subscribe to New York Times and just off the top of my head, I can name a wealthy gay couple who has been featured in the marriage announcements. Chris Hughes (of Facebook) and whomever his partner is.
To R30 R33 - I am not R31 but - I have a long standing tradition of reading the New York Times on Sunday Mornings - wherever I might be - Of course the first section read is the style section, including the Marriage announcements - My reading has lead to discussions with great friends and total strangers - all over the world - Flame away but you are the one I feel sorry for.
OP...yes, it will.
R35, one example you name out of dozens upon dozens.
None of the other gay couples can be detected as blatantly wealthy from what is said in their NY Times wedding announcement.
And it is absolutely true that almost all of the gay couples in the NY Times are of equal job status and equal job achievement.
Of course, R26 might be so unworldly that he considers any gay man as inherently 'wealthy' who has a job in New York City in finance, investment banking, stockbrokering, etc.
He probably doesn't know better.
" Marriage is a dying institution"
LOL!!!! Hysterically funny!
What's dying is the gay ghetto, and a lot of gay men are struggling with that. The glory holes, the rest stops, even shit like Grindr...it will all be a relic of the past soon. The problem is that a lot of gay guys, because the closet and self-loathing are still a reality, want to cling to the old ghetto habits. But it's long past time to move beyond that nonsense and start living our lives out and proud, as part of our communities.
I know there are still folks...I go to school wit them...who want everything to be 'queer rights' where we're all ambiguously gendered and reject monogamy and make home-made porn. I know at least half a dozen "queers" who want to be seen as 'freaks' and do not want to healthily integrate into a society that accepts us as normal people. They all want to be in Wiccan polyamorous triads, and to be 'sex workers' on the side (preferably prodommes) with ambi-sexual children who declare they are transgendered at 5 years old. It's the last gasp of the closet, really.
I want a loving healthy monogamous relationship, with a career and a relatively happy and normal life. I'll be happy when gay people are completely accepted as normal, and are no longer treated like freaks. I don't want to shun the world, I want to be a part of it.
OP, meanwhile, is terrified his partner will want to get married because...why, exactly? Oh yeah...because it means a commitment and not just some temporary attachment that can be tossed away when things get tough. No more 'Peter Pan', no more tricking on the side and bringing crabs home. Just a normal life. Gay men are SO afraid of that.
Some of you seem as naive about CIVIL marriage as the far right. I don't give a shit whether my relationship with my other half is similar to straight marriages or not. But if I were to die he is entitled to my social security benefits just as if he were my wife. While he is on my medical insurance policy I shouldn't pay an imputed income tax. That equality I deserve and I'm not really concerned about modeling it after anything else.
Who's 'modeling' anything anyway. Contemporary marriage is a perfectly fine thing. Gay men need to grow up. It can't be your freshman year in college forever.
I strongly agree with the OP that gay couples should in no way be pressured to get married.
I think it is an anathema that even one gay couple would be pressured to get married.
f and F for r42
R40 - While I might agree with your conclusion that we all want to be treated equal, I believe that equal treatment means that we accept that within in society, some will not want what we want - there will always be people, gay, straight and other who want different things - they should have that right just as you should have the right to the life that you want to live. You can't argue for equal rights for all while relegating those who don't want the same things as you as "freaks" - Equal treatment for all means exactly that.
[quote]because it means a commitment and not just some temporary attachment that can be tossed away when things get tough.
um r40....since when can you not toss away a marriage when things get tough?
R40, maybe you will not find in your lifetime a "loving healthy monogamous relationship" as you describe it.
What will you do then?
Not everyone finds a loving healthy monogamous relationship.
Last year I caught my partner of 25 years cheating on me, yet again, and for the last time. I supported him for decades. He was the smarmy, emotional, and supposedly "romantic" one who wanted to get married/civil unioned/domestic partnered. I refused and am so glad I did not give in to that shit.
There were times in our relationship that were based on honesty and love. We could have benefited from having a legal marriage. For example, he got domestic partners' healthcare benefits from my job and I was taxed on it as if it were extra income. Not fair.
There were numerous, dire, unexpected hospital situations where we needed to be there for each other. It was utter hell to get visitation rights, despite the fact that this is the world's most liberal city.
Every time there was trouble in our relationship (i.e. every time he cheated or lied) there was pressure from our families to work it out and stay together no matter what. Fuck that. We stayed together twice as long as any straight, married family member ever did. I did not have to lose my house and retirement fund when it became clear that my ex was a danger to me.
I support those who wish to tie that knot, but it is unlikely that I will ever be among them.
Our detractors argue that gay marriage will lead to bestiality. While i hope to find (human) love again, I would not hesitate to marry each or all of my cats. Chances of rejection are high. Can't even imagine the miles-long pre-nups.
no one will ever love a bitch like r40
[quote]"But I can quickly see this turning into a situation where gays starts to judge other gays, whether in a relationship or not, who choose, for whatever reason, not to marry. Just like straight people do the same to other straights who choose not to marry."
The perfect illustration of this, right on cue? R40.
R40: fuck you. I'm none of the things you describe. And even if I was, what's it to you?
If I wanted a fucking picket fence and store bought baby, you better believe we have the resources to make that happen, and we live in a state that makes it possible.
When I said my partner asked if we should get married, it wasn't out of a sense of deprivation. It was because little insecure bitches like you, in other words, gays who need to be accepted by EVERYONE, can't be satisfied with the decisions they need to make for themselves, are now increasingly applying their standards to our fucking relationships.
In other words, 'Should we get married just to shut R40 up?'
You're a fucking idiot. Straight up.
R-48 - Sorry that you had to go through what you did but... You said you caught him cheating on you just last year and then said that everytime that you had trouble in your relationship (was this before last year) that your family wanted you to stay together. The fact that you open with the fact that you supported him just means that you were in a bad relationship - I hope you find true love and when you do you have the right to marry that person.
I am strongly against a divorcing person in a gay marriage who owns a house on his own and has his own retirement fund being forced to give the other divorcing person in the marriage a portion of his retirement fund, a portion of the house he owns on his own, and any portion whatsoever of his other assets.
Totally agree op. Marriage is outdated and dying, who wants it?
Most men (gay or straight) don't actively pursue marriage. It really is more of a woman's thing (with the storybook wedding, the white dress and cake, etc.), so without a woman's push, I think more gay men will forever be more content perusing Grindr than wedding catalogs.
Honestly, I think long term gay couples should get married if they want hospital visitation rights, survivor benefits and other legal rights. It has nothing to do with "copying straight people." It is about the benefits and legal rights. Being married is what you make of it-- you don't have to be monogamous either.
[quote] I am strongly against a divorcing person in a gay marriage who owns a house on his own and has his own retirement fund being forced to give the other divorcing person in the marriage a portion of his retirement fund, a portion of the house he owns on his own, and any portion whatsoever of his other assets.
This idea is quite regularly expressed on DL and has been for years, the notion that gay couples should never put their finances at risk, never mix their resources in the same pot, and should --at a moment's notice-- be ready to grab their shit and be out the door for the perfect clean break. There's a smaller sub-set here who argue against cohabiting at all (some argue for the distance and time apart, but others for not getting financially entwined.) They see gay marriage first and foremost as the step to gay divorce and financial ruin for one partner and ill-gotten gains for the other.
marriage-? its hard enough to get a legitimate date in NYC
[quote]Equal treatment for all means exactly that.
But equal treatment is not equal respect. That is why marriage is so important to us. No influential figure came out in favour of the Grindr lifestyle. They're endorsing equal treatment for us in the legal sense: giving us the same options and rights, to which we're entitled as citizens.
Some gay people have been doing it on their own. Some remain on Atlantis Cruises with increasing aged desperation. Waiting for a magical land where every kind of behaviour is going to be equally valued, and therefore equally respected, is going to be a long wait.
It doesn't mean you can't be who you want to be, but having it endorsed as a normal way to live just isn't going to happen.
On the financial risk question, everybody faces that. Nobody said you should enter into marriage lightly, which divorce suggests too many people do, or enter into it with glibly with regard to what it's going to take to keep it together or what could happen if it falls apart. It's actually a pretty serious business, which many people learn the hard way.
Gay marriage won't establish patterns for a generation or two. Too many of us are too fucked up to contemplate marriage or pull it off. Like somebody said, it's hard to get a decent date in NYC let alone find somebody who turns out to be somebody you can and will marry and then stay that way.
Gay marriage isn't an end in itself. People don't marry these days in most cases because they have to (which is what everybody did probably well into the eighties) but because they want to. But you need a disposition toward the concept and gay kids don't get that when they're being raised because the option has only recently been on the table in one form or another.
Things may change more than anybody realizes if gay marriage becomes an option but it will take a generation or two. Like somebody else said, it may not be in ten or twenty years that a gay man's adult life resembles his freshman year in college or that gay popular or media culture holds that as the norm.
I agree with R8
Gay people of course should be equal in everything in law. If they want to get married, or join the military, or circus, they should be allowed to.
But, seriously, marriage is about chains, about wanting approval from someone else, about conforming.
I love love and I love freedom and individuality. Screw conformity.
Most people have an innate instinct to conform. Even the gays. It's just in the context of the group with which they're conforming.
R40, that was brilliant.
I know just the kind of guy you speak of..you nailed him to a T. He's always talking shit about ending his life. His straight and gay friends are getting tired. He's always cruising married closeted men at train stations and other venues. Servicing them and swallowing. If he didn't have his parents' basement in which to dwell he'd be living in a group home for the lightly schizophrenic. He's a slacker. A lazy, mentally disturbed shallow queen who bad mouths healthy gays who want a solid, meaningful relationship. I think it is a case of sour grapes for these types. There's no excuse anymore. The Peter Pan syndrome applies to them as well as hets today. Your response is golden, really.
I hear you, OP.
Marriage equality is important and I'm all for it. And I'm engaged.
But yeah, I completely see your point. I want us all to have the CHOICE to marry. But we also have a lot of people who live non-traditional, non-middle-of-the-road lives who don't want to be just like their parents. And we don't need to ostracize or "other" anyone who isn't getting married.
But considering how badly most gay men and lesbians treat bisexuals and transgendered people, I would guess your worries are well-founded.
No one is going to be forced to marry. If peer pressure is enough to make you marry, you're not smart enough to tie your own shoes. Granted, peer pressure is rampant among the gays and generally not in good ways so maybe almost none of us are smart enough to tie our shoes.
Serial matrimony. The gays will be getting married in the Rambles.
[quote]The gays will be getting married in the Rambles.
Why not? They've been honeymooning there for decades.
It's not a "straight" institution, it's a mainstream institution. Gays were excluded from it because we were seen as freaks by everyone including ourselves - incapable of relationships, hedonist, blah blah blah.
Yeah, maybe for you the downside of legalized gay marriage is that you'll be forced to come clean to your partner about how thoroughly you want to entwine your lives. And if he doesn't like your answer, he'll dump your ass and find someone who wants what he wants. So good for him, bad for you, I guess.
[quote]It has nothing to do with "copying straight people." It is about the benefits and legal rights.
That says it all. It has nothing to do with copying straights. And the "til death do us part" certainly doesn't get much attention from straights when you look at the divorce rate, so divorce is sure to be a part of marriage equality.
Divorce for gays won't be copying straights, it's simply part of marriage in this era. The rules for "til death do us part" came about centuries ago when people didn't live beyond 40 or 50.
Pearl clutching sex-negative people at R40 and R64.
Point your fingers and call others whores. Because it's clearly way different than your method...which is to claim superiority and chastity....and yet drunkenly go onto Grindr or Craigslist at 3 AM and say "ok i'll let you bareback me just this once!"
It's the churches that are fighting marriage equality. It's time to fight the churches and eliminate their involvement in legal contracts.
Let them have their "sacraments" of Baptism, Confirmation, Matrimony, etc. with NO LEGAL contracts.
The marriage contract belongs in the realm of the same institution that voids the marriage contract with divorce. When was the last time you saw a couple go into a church to get a divorce decree?!!!!!
71, you missed the point entirely. Read again. It's about not being a cum receptacle and forming a close bond.
Fascinating. What the OP experienced as pressure and a source of dread was simply a question. Functional people want the opportunity to make their loved ones happy, so obviously something about that piece of paper terrifies OP. his partner would be better off with someone else, but this mismatch is probsy part of the appeal.
R73 meant to provide a link back by writing: R71, you missed the point entirely. Read again. It's about not being a cum receptacle and forming a close bond.
When I came of age during the 70s, I had lots of cousins and lots of friends getting married. Anytime there was a family wedding, a certain great-aunt would come up to me and say, "you're next!" I'm sure she had figured out I was gay. I just brushed her off. Less than a year later, one of my last great uncles died. I went up to her at the funeral and said, "you're next!"
She never brought up marriage to me again.
I don't think this current SCOTUS thing will lead to much. I think they're just posturing.
But as gay marriage creeps into consciousness, it's going to be fascinating to watch "gay" come out of the closet. Because it's not. You can still hide and lie. Flit from serial monogamy to one night stand and back. Gay is like being a teenager 4-ever.
This comes after a decade or so of gay men living online looking for the next exciting hook-up. Many have never even been on a proper date- let alone in a relationship. With marriage there will be public records, a paper trail that you are HOMOSEXUAL!
I think the sane breeders are nervous that we'll change marriage because we can't do it. It would be like granting marriage to middle-schoolers.
No more dodging and diving, sitting on the bi-sexual fence. But responsibilities and expectations. Like the other posters have said: it's grow-up time.
The reason to get married is to have that added bit of motivation to stay together. As Anna Karenina so aptly demonstrates, everyone becomes tempted to stray and have affairs while married. And without marriage, it's just so easy to separate. And maybe you'd be much happier over the long run of your life if you toughed it out and stayed together. Old age alone can be brutal. I know. I'm there myself. I wish I had had marriage to keep me & the love of my life together thru the hard times. I didn't, and now he's married someone else.
This has been my point all along. I understand the need to have legal protections in case of death and illness so that our partners can be recognized and handle our affairs without fighting objectionable family members. But I don't want to have to be thinking about if the relationship I am having is going to lead to marriage or not. I've never wanted to get married. Long term commitments? Yes. Marriage? No.
I don't want to be pressured about it or have it be the expected direction of the relationship.
But cheers to all who are looking forward to it and that need that marriage validation.
I was QUITE well aware of what you said at R73/R75. And I'm partnered and engaged. A long lasting bond is the path I chose.
YOU have missed MY point. The point of all of this is to have a CHOICE. When we all wag our fingers and demonize those not sharing the same choices as us, we are as unsupportive and unenlightened as most straight people.
I'm all for an awareness in gay culture that life is more than circuit parties, slings and glory holes, drugs and booze and booty bumps. At the same time, there will always be outliers in any community. We were all outliers not so long ago, and I just happen to be of the mind that we don't need to shove our outliers down the ladder and step on their necks to stand tall.
We are as diverse as the straight world - a million points of the continuum and we are all different colors, sizes, shapes, gender identifications and sexual identities (yes, R77, bisexual people exist).
R77 Gay has long come out of the closet for people under thirty. It's a wonderful thing to see teenagers taking their partners to proms and gay-straight alliance organizations in high schools and colleges. You have kids coming out of the closet earlier than ever and proudly talking about their experiences of being gay and telling others that it's okay.
They are more grown up than people give them credit for.
I personally think there's some bitterness among the older generations that fought so long to get to where we are now. It's a shame that it took so long to arrive at such common sense, but you can't take it. Instead, be proud that you laid the groundwork. And really, it's never to late to be proud of who you are. There's no age limit.
[quote]I understand the need to have legal protections in case of death and illness
There are hundreds of other legal reasons for marriage equality beyond the events of death and illness.
I don't plan to marry, but I sure want to have that option available to anyone who wants it.
[quote]And without marriage, it's just so easy to separate. And maybe you'd be much happier over the long run of your life if you toughed it out and stayed together. Old age alone can be brutal. I know. I'm there myself. I wish I had had marriage to keep me & the love of my life together thru the hard times.
I stayed in a toxic relationship for most of my adult life because I did not want to "grow old alone". I used to judge older, single gay men as being shallow and superficial, and who would be pathetic in old age. Now I'm one of them, anyway.
My main reason for staying in the relationship was to escape from the HIV epidemic. Turns out that's an illusion. Supposed monogamy does not equate with honesty.
Even without legal marriage, it was utter hell to separate our lives. I learned that there's no such thing as a clean break, regardless of legal status. Likewise, no amount of legal bondage would or should have kept us together.
My ex-partner and I did once love each other deeply and we shared many happy experiences. But I would warn those who think that getting married will provide some kind of security in a relationship.
While I might sound bitter -- 'cuz I am -- I support those who choose to get married. Weddings are fun.
Also, does anyone feel like this whole marriage equality viral Facebook thing now underway seems a little ... condescending?
Straight folks sure do seem to be making a show of it all of a sudden.
I think they're flattered that we all want to be like them.
I really wish I cared more. I know I should. It's just like anything else the press beats to death.
[quote]I personally think there's some bitterness among the older generations that fought so long to get to where we are now. It's a shame that it took so long to arrive at such common sense, but you can't take it
I think there's some truth in that. They fought so hard to be free to exist as the 'gay community' of the olden days that they can't comprehend or feel threatened by 'gay community' evolving toward integrated within the rest of the world.
[quote]They fought so hard to be free
You almost had it. FREEDOM!
It will be once marketing people start making a push. As they plant seeds in your head through advertising that your less human if you don't marry.
Very much how everything else that is pitched at you.
Would you like to supersize those vows?
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain
[quote] Thread TL;DR
My ex and I probably would've married had it been possible R83. What a mess that would've been when I finally left (we were fighting A LOT).
[quote]They fought so hard to be free to exist as the 'gay community' of the olden days that they can't comprehend or feel threatened by 'gay community' evolving toward integrated within the rest of the world.
Maybe they find the 1950s Ozzie and Harriet ideal as being dated by a few decades.
"Straight folks sure do seem to be making a show of it all of a sudden."
And it could be just lip service. See if they take that attitude to the polling booth.
Remember in 2004 when so many exit polls made it seem like Kerry was a shoo-in? Then... he wasn't. People want to be perceived as liberal/green/open-minded/we all God's chillun; that's what's cool right now. But who knows what they say in private?
[quote]Also, does anyone feel like this whole marriage equality viral Facebook thing now underway seems a little ... condescending?
Thank you, R84! The news coverage and Facebook campaigns regarding gay marriage have both been unbelievably condescending. The only person I could watch discuss gay marriage in a non-condescending manner was Rachel Maddow (who, btw, lives in a state that allows gay marriage, but is not married to her longtime partner).
When are you going to settle down with a nice boy and make me a grandma? Do I have to wait until I'm in a home, alone, too old to run after the little ones until you will make me proud? You're no spring chicken anymore! Oy.
Oh, I forgot, if he was a doctor, that wouldn't hurt any either.
yes, be careful what you ask for
[quote]Maybe they find the 1950s Ozzie and Harriet ideal as being dated by a few decades.
Ah, the compensating meaning of Grindr.
OP don't let anyone talk you into doing something you don't want to do. Let the straights make a mockery of marriage. Why drag us into it.
50% of marriages end in divorce. 60% of second marriages end in divorce.
Most of my friends are straight. Nearly ALL of them are either divorced, separated, or staying together for the kids or a tangle of financial obligations.
I have friends whose lives have been ruined by marriage and ugly, nasty divorces.
R100 said it well "Let the straights make a mockery of marriage. Why drag us into it."
If you think the mass media is excited about gay marriages, wait until you see the coverage of bitter gay divorces!
[quote]If you think the mass media is excited about gay marriages, wait until you see the coverage of bitter gay divorces!
And the spectacular reasons for them!
I will happily marry my partner with or without the approval of whomever. Talking of heterosexual norms, we like fucking too.
Give up 'penis fits hole' and you might be on to something. Otherwise, quit trying to be anything more than a male with an excuse to commit.
[quote]Talking of heterosexual norms, we like fucking too.
If you don't want or need the over 1000 rights, benefits, and responsibilities that come with marriage, and if you don't value the concept of marriage, civil or otherwise, don't get married. It's not that complicated.
There are all sorts of reasons why people choose to get married; there are all sorts of reasons why people, gay and straight alike, choose to abstain. Criticizing either choice, particularly if you're stereotyping, as all too many do, is pretty stupid.
None of this has anything to do with "copying" straight institutions nor does it have anything to do with Grindr. It's all about individuals and couples making their own choices and making sure that everyone, gay and straight alike, gets the same range of choices.
Again, it's just not that complicated, nor is there any need for the vitriol on either side. Give everyone the full range of choices and then let them make the choice that best suits them.
But in your script, R107, there is no judgment. And that's what people live for on DL.
"You don't want to get married? You're a gay whore!!"