The only evidence against her is that she's a "white bitch" or a "she devil". Ask yourself how her and Sollecito left not a trace of physical evidence behind during a supposed sex orgy with over 50 knife wounds, but yet Guede's is spilled all over the room? The coerced confession came after 14 hours of abuse (none of it taped or admissible) and she said maybe she dreamed it. The Italian keystone cops thought it was her boss because they found African origin hairs and Knox had texted him "See you later" on the phone. In America that means "bye" but the idiot police thought she was making an appointment for murder. She's lost 4 years of her life and counting on the nonsense.
This bitch had better not try to steal my thunder. HLN is broadcasting MY reality show right now. Amanda's gotta wait until my season finale before her show starts up again.
The black guy DID do it! We swear!
Can't stand that witch, and she's not even cute.
She's just a white, lying killer. Plus, she had the nerve to say her black boss was the killer.
I guess she thought her whiteness would shield her.
She needed to rot in jail, and I hope the Italians find a way to haul her butt to its rightful place.
This whole trial is such a bore, yes I know I didn't have to post it, but I don't get the fascination with this woman and this trial at all.
We get your garden-variety bigotry, R6.
Amanda and Raffaele are INNOCENT. The Italians need to knock off this shit. They didn't murder anyone.
She just needs to escape this nightmare. Maybe Johnny Depp can help her go underground the rest of her life.
She does need to escape. I think she's guilty, tho.
I cannot make up my mind on this issue without the help of Nancy Grace!
can she refuse to go back for the trial?
She shouldn't have turned those cartwheels at the police station.
I have the same question as R13. Can the U.S. extradite her? Trying her twice would violate U.S. law, though it's apparently a "legitimate" practice in Italy.
Italy can request extradition. It is unlikely that the US would comply. In our system, acquittals cannot be appealed.
But... her TRIAL was in ITALY.
[quote]Her excuse is that the black guy did it.
Is that so wrong?
I hear she was wearing a floppy hat and was saying "Acid is groovy. Kill the pigs."
US law doesn't tater. The crime was in Italy.
US law certainly does matter when it comes to a request to extradite her to Italy. It will be a US court deciding whether to hand over a US citizen.
George Clooney should sell his Villa to protest.
Screw you, r10! Johhny is ours. So is Henry Rollins, Eddie Vedder, the Dixie Chicks, Margaret Cho and Peter Jackson. Bitch can find someone else to back her.
I don't think the U.S. would give a shit about sending some little suspected murderer back to be tried. And the U.S. would expect the same from them.
I doubt that the US would send a girl who was ACQUITTED back to a country that abused one of our citizens in prison because they want to try her AGAIN. Bullshit. And she is not guilty. You should hear people from the town talk about this case.
From what town r26? Her hometown? Perugia?
Where can I view the original crime scene photos the cops have? Did they leak somewhere?
She shouldn't have lied! That is what gave her away...she is so obviously guilty, or implicated. An innocent person does not need to lie.
there aren't very many people familiar with the case posting on this thread. knox is a flake, but not a murderer. the italian prosecutor came up with an insane theory of the case, as he has in previous prosecutions. the bid to retry her (which the italians knew was a non-starter because of double jeopardy) is a pathetic attempt to save face for the italian legal system.
just because lots of people are racist doesn't mean the black guy didn't do it.
R30 That's the voice of the Amanda Knox PR machine. No one is buying it. Not even Amanda Knox's lawyer.
Even her lawyer Carlo Della Vedova says the annulment of the appeal is not "double jeopardy" :
" ...the high court's decision does not raise a double jeopardy problem because the retrial would not be a new case but rather a continuation of the same case on appeal."
I will make up my own mind. Where are the true crime photogrphs?
Did you bother reading the full article and the context of the quote you provided, R32? Her Italian lawyer is talking about the Italian court system which regularly tries people after acquittal.
It's a violation of U.S. Constitutional law. The legal experts are saying that it's vague territory given wording of the part of the extradition treaty that attempts to account for Double Jeopardy vis a vis U.S. law.
Why would you even think that an Italian lawyer who practices law in Italy would have any substantive commentary about legality in the U.S. or under the extradition treaty?
Damn, you'd make a great Misinformation Minister.
It sounds like double jeopardy to me, no matter how they try to spin it.
The black guy (rudy guede) did do it. His DNA was found INSIDE the victim and a bloody handprint was found on the wall next to Meredith's body. The handprint was his and the blood was all hers
R29 has been living in cave. False confessions, anyone?
Try stabbing someone over 50 times and leaving no trace of your DNA in the room, while another guy left his all over the place. She must be the ultimate criminal mastermind.
You know, the Italian police, faced with a murder, really do not just set out to frame an American girl and a rich and well-connected Italian boy. They didn't just blindly pick Knox. Why did she and her boyfriend both turn off their phones that night? When does any 20something ever turn off their phone. Why did she lie and say the wrong black man did it? Why could she and Raffe not get their alibis to match? Why does his computer show no activity when he said he was on it all night. Why did someone stage a break in at their house? Why did she shower in a room with blood on the floor? Why did she describe, in her original statements, how she heard Meredith screaming?
It would be so, so easy for her to prove her innocence if she was really at Raffaele's that night. She has told lies. She was, I think, in the apartment. And if she wasn't, and if she really is innocent, then this trial is a good thing as it will hopefully clear up the many questions in the case.
There were two black guys, her boss, Patrice Lumamba and Guede. Lumamba was cleared.
R39 link to that nonsense you posted?
Are you talking about the computer evidence that was destroyed by the prosecutor's expert, R39?
And you think it is absurd that they would turn off their cellphones to have sex, but would definitely turn them off to have a sex orgy death party? Ridiculous. Lumumba was picked by the police. They convinced Amanda that he had murdered Meredith. Then they attempted to connect her to the murder because of text messages between them. They also told her that Raffaele denied being with her that night. So she cracked and said whatever she thought they wanted to hear. False confessions happen all the time.
Looking at the case as a whole, there is simply no way to take the idea of Knox's guilt seriously. The only people who are convinced seem to be nutballs who have a random fixation or hate her because she's white and the likely alternative is black.
But if the police were so glaringly incompetent with the evidence where Knox was concerned, aren't they going to be unreliable where other suspects are concerned?
But it goes further than incompetence, R43. They told this girl that she was HIV+ and thus required to write down everyone she had ever slept with! They then leaked that number to the tabloids! Completely insane to imagine thinking that you had this horrible disease while sitting in a foreign prison. They also leaked crime scene photos to the press that showed a "bloody" bathroom that she had supposedly showered in. The press was not informed that the bathroom had been sprayed with a substance that turns pink on contact with protein. They were also not shown the almost bloodless photos of the bathroom as it appeared when they first arrived at the scene. So much shady shit.
For some reason this case really gets to me. I have lived in Spain, Russia, Mexico City and France. I remember being scrutinized by various employers and landlords for my "bizarre" behavior (especially in Russia.). My "bizarre" behavior was being friends with a Central Asian, being friends with an African graduate student, having a MAC, wearing scuffed shoes, going to Finland for the weekend, taking photographs of things that they didn't think were interesting, having my friend mail me some vitamins that I could not get (held up in customs for over a month), not eating ham, staying out all night, talking on the phone at 3 am due to time differences, etc. Never mind that I was gay. I could easily see myself looking suspicious to the general public should I have been close to a murder. And 20 minutes in a Russian or Mexican jail and I would have given any sort of statement if I thought it would get me out. I would naively think that as soon as I was out, I could hire an English speaking attorney who would get it all sorted out.
Language was also an issue, IIRC. While she spoke passable conversational Italian, she hadn't been there very long. They didn't give her a translator and the level of vocabulary used during the interrogations exceeded hers at the time. I don't know if she even knew to call a consulate for assistance.
Patrick lumumba says knoxx is a fantastic actress.
And he knows absolutely nothing about the actual investigation or evidence, R46. He's understandably pissed off about being arrested for a crime he didn't commit, but it was the Italian police who first fingered him after finding hair belonging to someone of African descent at the crime scene.
I should add that the same police who coerced a false confession from Amanda are the same police that Lumumba said punched and kicked him in order to get a confession out of him.
Amanda Knox is truly beautiful in this era of injectable prolapsed rectum lips and zoned out Hollywood whore eyes. This case has lowered my respect for Italian institutions. Their "judicial" system seems corrupt and sleazy, as does its press.
Read about the case she's guilty! Look at the evidence. - a lot of misinformation here.
Most useful, edifying, and lucid post ever, R50. What would we do without you?
[quote]Her excuse is that the black guy did it.
That's who did it. His DNA was all over the place, and he went on the run when the police were onto him.
Stop hating this girl because she's white. Seriously. Yes, people of color get blamed a lot, get sentenced harshly, HOWEVER, IN THIS CASE, this is an innocent woman.
They tried her on being a hippie liberal, who had sex outside of marriage.
They held her for days without a lawyer. She couldn't even think straight, and the shit they wrote down was bullshit. So this 'she changed her story,' it's clear to understand why. This is Italy, NOT America. It's a misogynistic, Right wing, religious country. She was basically get tried by the Catholic Church. The prosecutor was saying she was possessed by the devil.
Did she swallow a lot of risotto in the Italian prison?
Note how the threads are invaded by the Amanda Knox fanboys & PR department.
A note to them: the regular Dataloungers can smell this crap a mile away.
And you presented misinformation upthread about what her Italian lawyer said, R55. Does this make us all even?
She's attractive, but not gorgeous.
I kinda think bitch did it...not based on anything but my enormous gut. Just a feeling
I've never heard of an innocent person attempting to evade suspicion by fingering another innocent person for the crime before this case.
R55 is the irrational idiot who actually cited a photograph of Sollecito in a Halloween costume as evidence against Knox. Tabloidism run amok.
Me too r58. But sshhh, don't tell her shills.
Amanda didn't know Lumumba was innocent, R59. The police convinced her that he had killed Meredith AND that they had evidence linking her to Lumumba on the night of the murder. She didn't just pull his name out of her ass. Fucking Catholics incapable of rational, linear thinking are behind this whole thing. It's the way my Catholic grandmother would prosecute a case. Sex games gone wrong...dear fucking God.
Yes. She's controlling us, R61. We would do anything, anything, anything for Amanda. It's those eyes. They send out such powerful messages. And did you know she bought panties! PANTIES!!!!! It's too much!
Innocent people often accuse others to escape suspicion. It's very common.
There are two groups of Amanda haters:
1)Gay men who hate women
2)Race card players... she's white, burn her at the stake, blacks get worse treatment.
3)Conservatives (she's a liberal, hippie, who had sex)
Yes, the black guy DID IT.
This woman is innocent, and it's sickening that there's people who either hate her because of her gender and skin color, and/or, got all their information from tabloids.
When you actually research the case, and then you see her haters, it makes it all the more frightening.
And no, this was not a sex game gone wrong. That was concocted by the Catholic prosecutor who believes in performing exorcisms.
R65= today's typical gullible American fool.
Women haters? The victim was a WOMAN, idiot.
There's no question that Knox did it. Absolutely none.
That was 3 groups r365.
I see Knox about once a week in Seattle around SoDo and Pioneer Square. She must live around there. She's usually on her bike or hopping onto a bus. I'm female, and we've made eye contact and smiled at one another several times and exchanged a quick hello. She has a strange vibe about her, but a lot of Seattleites do. The last time I saw her a few months ago, we passed one another on the sidewalk and she was on her cell. As I crossed the street, for some reason I looked back over my shoulder and she was facing me, staring directly at me, no longer on the phone. I walked into my office building and looked again when she couldn't see me, and she stood in the same spot, staring. She eventually turned around and started walking.
R66- woman haters such as the Catholics divide females into two categories. Amanda is their whore. So she's guilty. I mean, you know how THOSE girls are. They just get so jealous that the next thing you know they've convinced two strangers of extraordinarily different cultural and economic backgrounds to come together and rape and murder someone. Plus they know a thing or two about removing their own DNA from a crime scene while keeping "the black guy's" DNA in place. Their eyes have microscopic capabilities.
That's cool r68. Get a surreptitious pic for all of us. Let us know if she looks stressed next week, or if she just disappears.
1. In her initial statement to the police she placed HERSELF at the scene of the crime. This was excluded as court evidence. In her subsequent statements she questioned her own memory repeatedly, and questioned whether or not her own memory was reliable.
2.Her DNA was found on the murder weapon.
3.Her DNA was found mixed in with the victim's blood in the bathroom.
4.A footprint was found at the scene of the crime by Luminol tests which matched Knox's foot.
5. The knife was found in his apartment, yet contained Knox's DNA and that of the victim.
6.Her albi was contradicted by evidence. Cell phone records indicated that Knox was not where she placed herself that evening. His computer records contradicted his statement that he was on the computer all night. At the time Knox said she was sleeping, she was actually at a shop, which was later verified by the shop owner.
7.Knox later said she panicked and tried to break down the door where she thought the victim was, something that witnesses and police denied ever happened. She did not make this statement to the police initially.
8.At 12:47 Knox called her mother before the door was actually broken down. In a jailhouse conversation, Knox told her mother she called because she was in shock, and the mother replied, "but that was before anything had happened."
9.Knox shifted the time she was at dinner on the 1st, from 9:30 PM to 11:00PM. His father reported that he spoke to his son at 8:42 PM, AFTER they had dinner.
Oh yes, she's completely innocent.
R69...MARY!! Wow, there are a few bonkers folks on DL who are off their meds, but you take the prize!
"She has a strange vibe about her, but a lot of Seattleites do."
Almost every single thing you wrote is utter bullshit, R71. Stop trying to regurgitate the tabloid coverage you read in 2009.
There was no blood DNA on the knife you are referring to, but even so, that knife wasn't even the murder weapon.
If you knew anything about this case, you would know that the murder weapon was never even found.
Of course her DNA was in her own bathroom.
The "bloody" footprint tested negative for blood.
The computer records were destroyed.
I thought the deal was that her cell phone had been turned off so there was no data.
The bit about the call to her mother before anything happened was a lie.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
Never mind the grossly mishandled evidence.
Never mind the absurdity of the motives claimed by the prosecution which fit in with the whole Madonna/ whore dichotomy. She was a jealous, sex game playing she-devil who got off on watching someone get raped and stabbed to death? In a cloud of pot hash smoke, at that! It reminds me of Reefer Madness. Good grief.
R79 Bravo,good job. I'm waiting for people to abide by Guede's original story where he was on the shitter and an Italian man came into the house called him a racial slur and he bolted! Oh he changed that story,his second story was that he was on the shitter and he had heard Amanda fighting with Meredith. Fair enough BUT if he left why didn't he go to the police that night? Instead he went out again and went out the next night as well before bolting to Germany!If Guede is so innocent and/or his second story is true why the fuck did he go to Germany? Maybe to get rimmed by some German girls who have a black man fetish.......
I read that before Meredith'w two cell phones were tossed in a nearby field, a call was made accessing her bank account(s). Patrick Lumumba was maybe getting ready to fire Amanda from the pub le chic (possible motive for her saying he did it) Amanda knew Rudy G. and bought drugs from him, they were not strangers. When questioned about the The DNA found on a knife from his home matching Meredith's profile, sallecito said that Meredith was at his place and he accidentally pricked her with the knife. um err ok.
Any psychologist will tell you the first defense an innocent person will use is to accuse someone else of the crime. It's a well known fact.
It is very likely that Guede didn't do it on his own, I think she was stabbed like 74 times or so, and there are various other clear indications that the whole thing wasn't done by one person.
Just blame it on the black guy; the privileged families of Knox and her boyfriend had various possibilities to get them acquitted. Her PR team still seems very active. It certainly is dangerous to cross her family, team and 'Foxy Knoxy' herself; there are many stories and impressions to be read and heard about rich businessmen and their families about how nice and incapable of cruelty such people are.
"We are all descendants of murderers" (Siegmund Freud). People in general are capable of violence and murder, but when you look at nature, the alpha animals seem to commit more of it than the others. Of course in human societies the poor commit more crimes than the rich, but the rich are also very well capable of it, and the richer (or more powerful, or more privileged) you are, the less can be proved.
R81 Guede's bloody handprint was found on the wall! And was his shoeprint.According to both of his stories, that couldn't have happened because he left.
Oh and Guede was caught at a nursery a few days before he murdered Meredith. He had broke into the kitchen and was found with a knife he had stolen. he also was dealing drugs and had been in trouble with the police. In other words, he had a prior record.
As per Lumumba, the Italian police started the idea that Patric killed Meredith not Knox. Amanda didn't come up with the Patric is guilty crap BUT the Italian police did when questioning her.
As per the knife, there was a botch job by the Italian police forensics. BTW they never found the murder weapon to begin with.OK there was no blood on Sollecito's knife to begin with so Meredith's DNA was never on it.The knife also didn't match the bloody imprint on the bed. So Meredith wasn't murdered with that knife.
R83 I know someone with relatives in that very town and they all believe she was set up.
Raffalle Sollecito's sister Vanessa was fired from the carabineri (la polizia italiana) for trying to intervene on her brother's behalf in this case. Sollecito's father is a wealthy urlogist from Bari, Italy. Both Knox and Sollecito had the means for expensive lawyers. (Amanda through american fund raising and PR)
JUST! LEAVE! BRITTN....uhh...I mean AMANDA! ALONE!!!
Amanda's father is super rich & he spent oodles of money on her.
I thought I read that the parents were practically going broke from this?
r88 is of course lying
R88 has obviously ingested some toxic lumpy risotto.
yeah, what about the part about throwing stuff out the window to make it look like a break-in?
Anyone who thinks she's innocent should be tested for mental retardation.
R94 gets her news right at the self-checkout aisle.
I have no interest in going to foreign countries. I know something like this would happen to me. I'll just watch the travel shows and use my imagination. People have their debit and credit card numbers stolen after shopping or checking into hotels, entire accounts drained of money.
[quote] It's the way my Catholic grandmother would prosecute a case.
As would my Catholic mother and grandmother from the old country. Women who show any inkling of sexuality outside of marriage are thought to be whores and capable of worse. It was the theory that guided the investigation and prosecution. It's a theory that led people who should have otherwise handled the case dispassionately and rationally to discount exculpatory evidence and over-rely on shoddy evidence. Who knows, maybe it even led the police to destroy RS's computer records.
The prosecutor Mignini has been accused and convicted of abuse of powers of his office, BTW.
The investigation was embarrassingly slipshod and put the Italian police and legal system under international scrutiny for their illogical, skewed practices. I believe the retrial is an attempt to make themselves look better in the court of international opinion. But I think it will backfire on them when, inevitably, journalists are going to scrutinize them and the legal system because people are really going to question why the whole circus has to take place twice.
I was just thinking about the guy in the UK who set a gay, disabled man alight after dousing him with suntan oil at a party and fleeing. The court gave him a three and a half year sentence because it was a "prank gone wrong." He'll spend less time in jail than Knox did.
When a murder suspect keeps changing his story, our natural and reasonable tendency is to figure he’s guilty. So what should we figure when a murder prosecution keeps changing its story?
Less than three weeks ago, we wrote that the latest prosecution theory in the retrial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito was that the motive for the murder of Amanda’s flat mate Meredith Kercher was arguments between the young women over (the actual killer) Rudy Guede’s repeated failure to flush the toilet after taking a dump.
This superseded the prosecution theory that Amanda killed Meredith over resentment that Meredith criticized her for her own supposedly slovenly housekeeping, which superseded the theory that Meredith was killed during a sex game in which she refused to participate, which superseded the theory that Meredith was killed as part of a satanic ritual murder.
But wait! There’s more!
Now comes the report that Francesco Maresca, an attorney for the Kercher family, has put forth the premise that drugs and alcohol fueled a murderous rage on the part of Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy, said drugs and drink having “deprived their minds of inhibitory impulses.”
As if acknowledging that this scenario was unsupportable, Maresca declared that the “motive” was irrelevant since it had been proved the three were in the room together when Meredith was killed.
Except it hasn’t been proved. It has, in fact, been contradicted. Guede’s DNA is all over the crime scene. Amanda and Raffaele’s are nowhere to be found. This is typical of the illogic and outright fabrications that have characterized this entire sordid process.
R96 is retarded AND a psycho!
Stay there, we don't want you
Why did Amanda try to frame an innocent man, Patrick Lumumba?
Her knick name is Foxy Knoxy so I think there's evidence of guilt there.
r68, she probably is aware you know who she is although you are strangers.
r44 your post is so accurate. You have walked the walk.
No way a college girl living abroad would kill her room-mate in a "sex game" scenario.
There were others artound and they know who did it.
The prosecutors will not leave her alone because they could not convict her on their evidence nor did they like the world criticism for some of their practices leading up to the trial.
[quote]Why did Amanda try to frame an innocent man, Patrick Lumumba?
Because they grilled her for days without a lawyer present, screaming at her non-stop, and broke her down. She gave a name to get them to stop. This happens all the time. This is also how false confessions happen to.
Honestly, not only is the Italian legal system corrupt and insane, they're also xenophobic. They mainly hated her because she was: female, American, and not living a Catholic lifestyle like a good girl. The prosecutor was out there saying she was possessed by the devil and all this other hooky paranormal horseshit. It was like being tried in the 16th century.
R102, Why did the woman accused of being a witch name other names of alleged witches? The answer is she was pressured into naming names and she folded.
The only reason why Amanda and her boyfriend were charged was because the lead prosecutor was one of those nuts that believes in "satanic conspiracies". He believed that the murders were a satanic human sacrifice even though there was absolutely no evidence linking the occult to the crime. So if you already have your mind made up that a Satanic cult killed Meredith Kercher then you must believe that multiple people were involved. However, in reality we know it was a rape/murder committed by one man, the man who is currently in prison.
She has more than a touch of the Asperger's
Surprised so many here quick to throw Amanda Knox under the bus. r44 post reminds us that when in foreign non U.S. country as a tourist, we are not familiar with the government legal systems as ones we grew up with. This applies to people living in the Unites States as well who were born in another country.
Good point, 108
Yet another respectable, honest woman thrown under the bus by our hateful media. For shame.
I was watching Jodi Arias interview tapes and it was uncanny how similar she acted to Amanda Knox under interrogation. They could be sisters.
Do you follow a lot of true crime stories, 114?
The truth is the Knox defenders have never give any convincing motive for the prosecutor to frame her.
R114, did you see Amanda Knox under interrogation? Link please.
One interrogation of Amanda Knox that was never recorded is the one where she apparently fingered Patrick Lumumba - it was not voice recorded, neither was she allowed a lawyer present, yet we are meant to believe that her supposed claims against Lumumba are evidence that she is guilty.
R116, that particular prosecutor is well-known for elaborating/inventing sensational motives - just read up his elaborate claims regarding the death of Dr Francesco Narducci.
The Italian justice system is a steaming pile of corrupt shit. Moreover, in Italy and other Mediterranean countries (and I say this as a person of Mediterranean origin who sees it all the time), you earn cultural prestige by demonstrating how clever you are by revealing "hidden" things, but you don't get cultural prestige for pointing to the most logical answer that can be objectively demonstrated. Mignini is a genuine product of that culture.
Italy is one of the most frequently condemned countries at the European Court of Human Rights. Moreover, the arcane Italian justice system has a backlog of tens and thousands of cases that take years if not decades to be concluded.
This is what Wiki says about Mignini and the Narducci case:
A series of murders that took place around Florence, Italy between 1968 and 1985 were known as the Monster of Florence murders. At different points in time, four different people were tried and convicted for the crimes (and subsequently released in most cases). Newspaper critics have expressed the view that the true killer (or killers) have never been identified by the police.
Dr. Francesco Narducci's body was recovered from Lake Trasimeno near Perugia, Italy, in 1985 and was initially determined to be a drowning. His body was discovered a month after the final double-murder linked to the Monster of Florence. Police and prosecutors initially investigated Narducci's death as connected to the murders after a number of anonymous letters were received, but police were unable to find evidence of a connection. In the summer of 2001, police wiretaps recorded a conversation threatening a woman that if she did not pay what was owed she would end up like Narducci. Subsequent threatening phone calls to the same woman referred to the "murder of Pacciani" (one of the suspects in the Monster of Florence Case who was found dead in suspicious circumstances) and said that both had been killed by members of a secret society for betraying them. In early 2002, Mignini had Narducci's body exhumed and examined. Mignini believed that the body was not decomposed enough to be Narducci's. A medical examination determined that the body was in fact Narducci's. Mignini then theorised that the body had been swapped twice. Mignini alleged that Narducci had been involved in a secret society and killed to keep quiet and that his father, Ugo Narducci, a member of a masonic lodge, had masterminded the cover up. Mignini's theory involved a complicated conspiracy of 20 people, including government officials and law enforcement officers. Mignini indicted 20 people and charged them with the concealment of Narducci's murder. The charges were eventually dismissed. Narducci's family and colleagues believe that his death was a suicide.
In April 2006 Mignini had Italian journalist Mario Spezi arrested for complicity in the homicides of the Monster of Florence case and interfering with an investigation. Spezi was held for 23 days, 5 without a lawyer.
On 22 March 2013 the Third Circuit Court of Cassation (Supreme Court of Italy) ruled that the main case related to criminal conduct "did not exist", and that Francesco Narducci died by suicide. In sustaining the lower court acquittals, the Court of Cassation also sent back for re-trial some of the parallel slander charges.
Can someone post the link to the site that details the forensic evidence and shows the walk-through of the crime scene? I can't find the link.
I used to think Amanda Knox was guilty, until I read the information at that website. I'm searching for the link.
JAHI MCMATH IS STILL ALIVE!!!!
Don't know if she is guilty but not double jeopardy. Her conviction was appealed, their version of an appellate court overturned it, the the prosecution appealed to their version of Supreme Court, the Italian Supreme Court overturned the appellate tribunal and ordered a new trial. Happens all the time here in the US. Not saying Italian criminal justice system is not corrupt, just saying that is the process here. You know, like when people get the death penalty and they appeal and an appellate court or US Supreme Court can order a new trial. And it takes as long for this process in the US as it did in Italy.
Additionally, we have an extradition treaty with Italy. We signed a treaty saying we will abide by the orders of the Italian Courts so they would do the same with US courts. It would be difficult to not extradite her if this is a final order in which the appellate process has run out (although I think I heard they can appeal this) because it would affect our ability to have our court's orders recognized in Italy. It would be better for her to move to a country that does not have an extradition treaty with us. We could have a serial rapist or killer flee to Italy and not get them back because we destroyed our goodwill with the Italian government and other countries.
Yes, I am an attorney but I have no firm opinion on this case yet because initially I didn't pay too much attention and now there is so much conflicting information in the press about basic facts. I believe most Brits think she is guilty and it is difficult to find a truly objective media source on the facts of this case. Even on this thread there is so much disagreement over what the forensics showed. I guess if we have to extradite, then I hope to someone's God she is guilty. If she's innocent I hope she moves to another country.
R121, I'm British and I think this verdict is a travesty of justice.
It's difficult for you to get a handle on the evidence because there isn't any. If Italy requests that she be extradited, the US should refuse on the grounds she didn't get a fair trial.
If we don't extradite her, how will we ever get any mafiosi?
[quote] Don't know if she is guilty but not double jeopardy. Her conviction was appealed, their version of an appellate court overturned it, the the prosecution appealed to their version of Supreme Court, the Italian Supreme Court overturned the appellate tribunal and ordered a new trial. Happens all the time here in the US. Not saying Italian criminal justice system is not corrupt, just saying that is the process here. You know, like when people get the death penalty and they appeal and an appellate court or US Supreme Court can order a new trial. And it takes as long for this process in the US as it did in Italy.
It's a little different than that. Saying it's like it is in America is not true. She was convicted, she appealed, she won her appeal, she was released. BUT, the prosecution had to file an appeal to retry her. We don't have that in America. Her appeal wasn't won on the fact that she didn't get a fair trial or any errors in her case. The appeals court determined she did not commit the crime. American prosecutors don't get to appeal cases they've lost
America's appeals courts don't really have that stipulation. U.S appeals courts are usually to determine whether someone had a fair trial or not. When they determine someone did not have a fair trial, that verdict is set aside and the prosecution can retry because that verdict doesn't stand anymore. Knox's case was not like that. Her trial (believe it or not) was considered fair in Italy. Her appeal determined she didn't commit the crime. The prosecution won an appeal to try her again. This is in effect trying her twice
Actually, the best financial move would be for her to relocate to a country without an extradition treaty with Italy and fight it from there--or stay there. Her parents have already spent a fortune on her for the first round.
Her father is loaded but was shitcanned at Macy's during the whole thing, then went to work for some restaurant thing & left and now works for a scammy wireless company that has salespeople in Costcos.
Does daddy have the money still? Anyone know? Maybe daddy's from money as well and Amanda can use her father's entire inheritance.
[quote] Why did Amanda try to frame an innocent man, Patrick Lumumba?
The police told her that he did it. They asked her leading questions about him. They fed her what they wanted her to agree with. Don't forget, he had 100% proof that he was not involved in this case and he told them that. But the police kept him in jail for 2 weeks. they could have just asked his staff (he worked that night) or checked his cell phone. The only reason they let him out was because his employees and his family started talking to the press and telling them he was at work that entire night
The only reason they ever linked Rudy Guede to this crime was completely by accident. He had been DNA tested months before when he broke into a law office and a school, where he stole money, cameras and knives. He was NEVER on their radar. After they entered the DNA results from the crime scene into the database, his name came up. That's when they decided it was some weird sex game
What a bitch - she wants everyone to do for her but doesn't want to have to interact with them. In a relationship, even among family and friends, there is a give and take. They help you, and you have to be nice to them and appreciate it. Not expect it like this bitch.
You know, women in China used to have a baby and go back to the fields. There is nothing creative about that - just good old biology. Those of you complaining about this thread must be straight women. Lesbians can handle this shit.
Amanda is now working for the West Seattle Herald as a freelance reporter.
That movie The Omen, just with a girl instead of a boy.
The 7 Italian scientists, who were convicted of manslaughter for failing to predict an earthquake, have had their convictions overturned. Hopefully, Knox will achieve the same justice in Italy's medieval courts.
There was indeed some food matter found at the very end of the small intestine, at the ileocaecal junction (i.e. where the small intestine becomes the large intestine). It is of course true to say that this food matter would have passed through the duodenum on its way to the position in which it was found.
BUT....... the spot where it was found is some SIX METRES (around 20 feet) along the small intestine. That's how long the adult human small intestine is! It would be functionally impossible either a) for that food matter to have been accidentally manipulated or "slid" along that distance, or b) for that food matter to have been anything to do with Kercher's last meal.
In a typical adult, food takes from four to six hours to transit the small intestine (in addition to time spent in the stomach of course). It's therefore a near certainty that this food matter was related to a snack consumed by Kercher at home some time in the early-mid afternoon, before she left for her friends' house.
And as pointed out above, it's fallacious to think that the autopsy pathologist might possibly have accidentally manipulated any food matter along that whole length of intestine, and nor is it possible for the food matter to have "slid" down that length. The small intestine is an elastic tube that is highly constricted in its resting state (not dissimilar to a long deflated balloon. It would take real, concerted effort to manipulate food along any section of the small intestine. That didn't happen.
It's really very simple. Kercher's last meal was demonstrably still entirely within her stomach at the time of death, and the small amount of food matter at the end of her small intestine was associated with a different meal consumed much earlier in the afternoon. And owing to the happy accident that Kercher happened to have a stomach t(lag) time at the upper end of the limit, coupled with firm knowledge of the last time she was provably alive, means that we can without doubt place Kercher's time of death at some time between 9pm and 10pm, with a very high degree of probability that it was between 9pm and 9.30pm.
And that fact that a ToD prior to 9.30pm also fits with all the other evidence (failure to re-phone mother, still wearing outer clothes, failure to take damp washing out of washing machine, no texts sent, no evidence of reading uni text book, Guede's specific mentioning of the scream at "9.20-9.30ish" (very probably because he feared that somebody outside the cottage might have heard this scream)) only serves to bolster its credibility.
It's also perhaps worth noting that the stomach/intestines evidence was (and still is) immensely important in totally refuting Massei's court's theory of the crime, and it also puts a massive hole in the prosecution case. Remember that Massei ruled that Kercher must have been killed some time later than 11.30pm, since this allowed the earwitness testimony and Curatolo's account of timings to be ruled reliable and valid, and since it allowed Massei to construct a "sex game gone wrong" escalation of violence.
There is NO SCIENTIFIC WAY in which the stomach/duodenum evidence is consistent with a ToD later than 11.30pm. That's why it was such a high-profile debating point just after the Massei verdict. And while it's true that there's an intrinsic element of imprecision in stomach/intestinal evidence, we can state with total certainty in this particular instance that death must have occurred before 10pm, and almost certainly before 9.30pm. This is still very important, since it renders the earwitness testimony irrelevant and inadmissible, and raises (yet another) huge red flag over Curatolo's testimony. It also of course means that it's very hard indeed to construct a plausible narrative whereby Knox and Sollecito, having had provable computer interaction in Sollecito's apartment at 9.26pm, decide for some reason to rush over to the cottage, either hooking up with Guede (with whom they have had no phone contact) on the way, or meeting him there (but why?), then having an escalating argument with Kercher that culminates in a group attack and murder.
This murder was carried out by just one person, Guede, acting alone.
Heaven forbid they should arrest a murderess.
Why not do what we do in the USA? Just jail them for stealing back their own belongings.
R133, Anyone with a brain knew she was raped and killed by one man, Guede, who then lied and claimed he had consensual sex with her, went the bathroom, came out and found her dead with Amanda Knox fleeing the room!
This was a witch hunt. The main prosecutor during the initial formative phases of this trial believed in satanic conspiracies and that Amanda and her boyfriend, as well as Guede, were Satanists.
The fact that Amanda accused an innocent man is well documented when looked at in the light of it being a witch hunt. It's very common for people being interrogated to accuse innocent people if they believe that such will allow them to leave.
The heroin junkie, tramp Curatolo puts Sollecito and Knox outside in the piazza until nearly midnight. Part of the reason the Italian Supreme Court overruled the innocent verdict of Judge Hellmann was that they felt the tramp was completely reliable as a witness and he was dismissed by hellmann.
Kercher's last meal started at around 6:30, according to the friends who ate with her. The witness who said she heard a scream (a former mental patient) placed the scream after 11:30. Curatolo the tramp, says he never heard a scream, but he places the murder after midnight because he said he saw them over several hours at the piazza.
None of Kercvher's last meal had left her stomach and entered her duodenum. Food on average will start this process in an hour and twenty minutes. The prosecution and their "factually reliable" witnesses would have you believe that Kercher's food was still waiting to leave her stomach in over 5 hours. Actually they also could have had a good sense of the time of death by measuring the temperature of the body, but the witch hunting prosecutor Mignini ordered the test not be done.
It was telling to me that they basically let Guede have a much lesser sentence if he would testify against Knox and Solecito. I wonder when he gets out if he could write a book about this whole thing and make a ton of money ratting out the Italian justice system. He would have to leave Italy and go into hiding at a non extradition destination. Maybe he could stop being a thief and murderer then.