I was planning to invite all the Disney princesses to my birthday party, but our staff are having difficulty determining the appropriate precedence in which to arrange them for processing and seating?
Who is the top dog of this pack of bitches? What's the order?
We are tentatively placing Snow White at the head of the line, because she was the princess and heir of the king and his evil wife died, so she must have become Queen Regnant with her Prince Consort beside her. Cinderella is just lucky chattel (Got that, Kate?). Mulan isn't even a princess, and she's only wed to a general.
Help, please. The invitations have to go out soon!
The Chamberlain's List:
I think it should go:
And again don't invite Jasmine.
Any questions, Liz?
Snow White, Aurora, Ariel, and Jasmine should all take precedence over Cinderella and the others because they are [italic]princesses du sang[/italic], royal by birth and descendants of a ruling king, queen, or sultan. The others are royal by marriage (save Mulan). Snow White would not be Queen Regnant, unless her father had passed or abdicated and designated her heir to the throne.
To determine precedence among the princesses du sang, look at their families' dynastic lineage and those of their spouses and see who is more royal.
Royalty by Birth: Snow White, Aurora, Ariel, Tiana.
Royalty by Marriage: Cinderella, Rapunzel, Belle.
Are these even royal?: Pocahontas, Mulan.
And again don't invite Jasmine.
Leave that bitch Jasmine out.
Here, here, R6!
Rapunzel is princess by blood...
Get it right!
OP, you have the right idea when it comes to seating arrangements and importance.
I especially admire how you placed all those pesky minorities and the end of the list. I follow that same philosophy in all my formal engagements, as well.
Have you been watching Fox News, R8?
R5, the offpsring of a parmount chief is most definitely royal.
By box office, the Hollywood scorecard:
Belle, Jasmine, Ariel and Pocahontas won Oscars. Real ones.
So under the Hollywood formula of box office x Oscars, Jasmine wins by a nose over Belle. Suck it, bitches.
[quote][R5], the offpsring of a parmount chief is most definitely royal.
She's the "princess" of some mud hut tribe, not of the courts of Europe. She's not royal.
Perhaps you are unaware of our dear great great grandmere's dictum that royalty is royalty no matter where it comes from. Persians, Africans, and Arabians all received the appropriate placement in their seating and other honors, regardless of whether or not they were known to or familiar with Europe and European ways.
Even Pocahontas received honors when she came to England (to die of smallpox).
So whether you appreciate Jasmine's background or not, her place is less wobbly than the near-ubiquitous R1 would have us think, dear as R1 in.
Therefore, does anyone actually know what Jasmine's background really is? And where she should go?
Thank you again for your assistance. We are - amused.
This whole Princess thing is stuff and nonsense! I should think they should learn a thing or tow about manners!
Aurora is the prettiest.
I think the Disney girls should all take the Wimmin on Wheels to Michfest this year. NOW THAT IS A PARTY!
If you want to see Ariel freak out, be sure to serve crab bisque.
What about Sofia the First?
All signs point to Snow White taking precedence over the other Disney princesses, but I disagree on the reason why. Box office and birth aside, upon the (evil) queen regnant's death, Snow White logically assumes the throne. Even if she's married to a prince who's not the heir to the throne in his own land, she would still be a queen.
What about Giselle?
Giselle is not a princess. She lived in a hut and married a lawyer. She's a gold digger.
Mrs. Robert Philip, Esq. is about as royal as Countess Luanne De Lesseps.
Right, R22. Queen Regnant Snow White. She beats them all. She can sit where Camilla usually snails her way in.
What about the princes? They're all interchangeable. And Aladdin isn't even a prince, nor are others of these beaus. Beaux. Bois.
Hey idiot--The Queen does not refer to herself as Her Majesty, for obvious reasons. You might have tried Our Majesty, but that too would be wrong. She is simply "Elizabeth" or formally, "Elizabeth R." And numerals are for historians.
This cunt was too haughty to go to Princess Grace's wedding because of "too many movie stars" and now she's opening up the castle to the Disney skanks?
I mean I know Lilibet lost any dignity she had left with that James Bond Olympics stunt, but damn!!!
p.s. Princess Aurora takes precedence over all Disney Princesses because her castle was built first. Also, her movie was best with the best music.
I have delivered orders for your head to enjoy a visit to our Tower, R30. But your body will be left at home during the journey.
And idiot at R29. The posts are ghost written and self-consciously ridiculous, you sanctimonious and illiterate cunt. How about infesting some other place with your malodorous ill will? It is not our fault or problem you have no life.
Here's a few toughies for the precedence nerds:
As Princess Jasmine's father is retarded, she begins running the kingdom once Jaffar is out of the way... so does a Princess Regent outrank all the other blood princesses?
And Ariel's father is King Triton - a minor God of the Greek pantheon. How does divine blood affect precedence?
These characters live in a fictional universe, this should be judged in-universe not by non-universe box office returns.
I feel like Jasmine should really come first. She's the undisputed daughter of a reigning absolute monarch and she IS addressed as "Princess" in the film. Are the others?
As for Pocahontas, I'm leaning towards giving her precedence as if she were royal in the conventional sense. Her father was a tribal leader and when she journeyed to Europe she was regarded as a princess.
What about Nala? Or does one have to be human to be on this list?
[quote]I feel like Jasmine should really come first. She's the undisputed daughter of a reigning absolute monarch and she IS addressed as "Princess" in the film. Are the others?
That makes no sense, 38. Just because no one called say Snow White or Aurora princesses in their respective movies does that mean they're not princesses.
Well R40, I don't remember the details of Snow White or Sleeping Beauty enough but I don't remember them addressed as princess. I assumed they were sort of like Zara Phillips or Charlotte Casiraghi; well-connected royally but without titles or rank.
Princess Jasmine also wears some form of regalia, they appear to be well-recognized symbols of her rank, when she throws back her cloak in the market the crowd seems to immediately recognize who she is.
Sorry, I meant R38.
Best put me at the head or I'll blast a bitch!
I agree that the royalty aspect was more pronounced with Jasmine but that was also a key part of the storyline because Aladdin didn't think that a lowly street urchin like him could ever be with a princess so he makes his wishes with Genie.
Are you forgetting that Snow White and Aurora had to live in the woods because of evil witches? Of course they couldn't go around being called princesses!
Well [R40], I don't remember the details of Snow White or Sleeping Beauty enough but I don't remember them addressed as princess. I assumed they were sort of like Zara Phillips or Charlotte Casiraghi; well-connected royally but without titles or rank.
Snow White's father is The King of all The Land. She is definitely the highest ranking. Aurora, Ariel and Tiana are all princesses of specific kingdoms by birth.
Jasmine's father is referred to as a sultan but he just appears to own a city like the prince Cinderella marries.
And my quoting failed.
Well, there are plenty of examples in history of mini-states that were no more than cities. Germany was littered with them up until WWI, and prior to that a princess of even the tiniest little country held rank against her counterpart in a powerful larger one. It's all about the HRH/HSH thing.
I guess technically Princess Jasmine would be a HH, since His Highness is what is usually afforded to Middle Eastern reigning princes. In that case, she would rank below any princess with a HRH or a HSH, although if her father still reigned and the others were deposed then that puts a spin on it too.
If this wasn't about Disney monarchs, I'd say historically the order of princess precedence here is pretty much in line with the order of replies: R1 is typically the biggest despot, followed by R2, etc. The Webmaster with his all knowing, shiny septor will always be Queen of our sovereign land.
Just to show how many of u racist cunts ever say the Tiana's movie. She is not a princess by birth but by marriage. That's why on Facebook the other princesses (including Cinderella, of all people) call her "non-legacy"
[quote]She's the "princess" of some mud hut tribe, not of the courts of Europe. She's not royal.
As others have stated, Pocahontas was the daughter of the chief, which the English equated his position with their King James, so when Pocahontas (now rechristened Lady Rebecca) later toured England, she was received and fêted by the king and queen and pretty much treated like visiting royalty during her stay.
Thanks, (R34). Best laugh in a long time.
Well the Sultan definitely seemed like the wealthiest and most extravagant of the Disney kings. That palace was to die for!
What really interests me is why do all male Disney villains seem effete? Jafar, Scar, Hades...even Gaston was queeny in a preening Adonis way.
The sultan is a Sultan Regnant in "Aladdin," and Jasmine is "Princess of Agrabah." He is an Arabian sultan, effective autocrat and ruler of the territory in his charge, with no superior ranking over him in his land.
Our Chamberlain has informed us that as such the sultan is to be considered in the same rank as kings regnant, below emperors but above mere princes.
In the case of reigning kings and the various titles used for them, length of term usually determines precedence. Therefore, the sultan would rank higher than the younger princes who rose to their reigns as king during or after the events in the various stories. The sultan has been in his job longer.
That may be true regarding the Sultan, but it has no bearing on Jasmine's stature. She's a princess who would never find herself Sheika regnant.
Also, Wonderland only existed in the head of a little girl; therefore, the Queen of Hearts would have to settle for tea and crumpets with Freddy Krueger and WMDs in Iraq. And one last thing about the order of precedence...Snow White may rank highest as a fellow Queen regnant, but Princess Aurora would probably be closest to Elizabeth II since her parents were English monarchs (making her a cousin to her host).
"What really interests me is why do all male Disney villains seem effete? Jafar, Scar, Hades...even Gaston was queeny in a preening Adonis way."
To remove any suggestion of sexual agression from their villainy, because these films are made for kids after all. The villain may menace the heroine, but he wouldn't dream of raping her!
As for Tiana, she must rank at the bottom of the princesses by marriage. Her royal husband has been disinherited and probably removed from the line of succession, and as it's the 1920s, hie family are probably figurehead monarchs rather than rulers.
Everyone who doesn't remember Princess Aurora getting called Princess Aurora in the film... GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS THREAD. You are too stupid to be posting here. Your opinion is worth shit. You have no credibility. The opening of Sleeping Beauty is the fucking song "HAIL TO THE PRINCESS AURORA"!!!
Bow down, bitches, to the top Disney princess.
R56, the question addressed was the sultan's position. That was what was discussed.
As for Jasmine's status, as the daughter of a sultan regnant, she would be afforded an equal status to other royal princesses in our court, and in all others. The notion that a child's status has nothing to do with her parents' is of course a howler in the context of primogeniture. Her inability to reign has nothing to do with her precedence, and she would rank equal to other royal princesses.
Please do not detract from your otherwise interesting points by projecting gender bias additional to the areas where it actually applies. you comment about dear Aurora especially is apt. The fact that her prince inherited the throne in his own country further complicates the matter, as Aurora is queen regnant of her realm (with her husband as prince consort), but also queen consort to her husband in his land. They occupy a double throne, which certainly lifts her up, and does place her superior in some ways to Snow White, at least in practical terms.
Usually in the case of co-reigning monarchs, the male took the lead. For example Queen Mary I of England married King Philip of Spain. He insisted on double billing. In the case of Mary II, not only did William insist in double billing but the authority of the crown was administered by him. Mary II did needlepoint. Queen Aurora would have probably followed that precedent, pretty but one step behind her hunky husband.
This is a great, quirky thread.
Okay, does Belle outrank Aurora? Belle's unnamed Beast/Prince is called a "prince", yet he seems to be ruling in his own right, there is no suggeston of living parents anywhere in the film. Would that make the prince a HSH, rather than an HRH? Where would that leave his wife?
And Aurora seems to have living parents, which makes her a princess both by birth and marriage, rather than a queen.
[quote]The notion that a child's status has nothing to do with her parents' is of course a howler in the context of primogeniture. Her inability to reign has nothing to do with her precedence, and she would rank equal to other royal princesses.
Ohhhhhhh. Is that why Prince Edward has to attend the weddings of lesser European royals (like Prince Albert II and Princess Charlene), while Charles and Camilla hold court with the Pope, and Prince William meets with President Obama? There is a pecking order whether you acknowledge it or not.
You're right, R62, about Aurora. I was telegraphing her into her future, but at the end of the story she's still - I think - with living parents. So in that temporal setting she's still among the princesses - and we're not sure what her prince's status is at that time, really. He's a prince, not a king, at that time.
I don't know about "Beast" as a prince - does anyone know his status?
As for Philip and Mary, he was refused the reality of co-reign insofar as he was left out of any right of inheritance. Anything he had came through his connection with Mary Tudor.
For William III and Mary II, they both were Stuart heirs in their own ways, as well as usurpers in replacing her father, James II. William was the real power, as his role as Protestant Godling, Stadtholder in the Netherlands. With James II thrown out, there was no rationale to place his daughter on the throne based on inheritance, since inheritance had been thrown out the window by kicking James II out. It was equally and merely expedient to combine the two cousins into a single front, to make it look like legitimacy was maintained, and Orange's military strength added to England's to preserve Protestantism, once and for all turning the Catholics back.
Since William was gay, it was just as well that Mary did her needlework. Smallpox polished her off fairly quickly, anyway, and William remained sole sovereign until his horse caught its hoof in that molehole. Hilarious how the Catholic Stuarts would toast "the little gentleman in the black velvet waistcoat," meaning the mole. (William broke his collarbone in the fall and developed complications.)
And what does this have to do with princesses? NOTHING!
r62, Belle is NOT a princess of the blood royal. She does NOT outrank Princess Aurora.
In the original fairy tale, Belle was the daughter of a wealthy merchant. In the Disney movie, she was the daughter of an inventor.
As for HSH (His/Her Serene Highness), that's really only a bullshit honorific used by bullshit royal dynasties like Monaco, not important royal families.
I think the type of ranking distinction you are thinking of is where the King or Queen is HM (His/Her Majesty) where Princes and Princesses will get the honorific of HRH (His/Her Royal Highness).
Pocahontas's father was an emperor... Emperor Wahunsonacock Big Chief Powhatan and my 10th great grandfather.
R63, of course there is a pecking order. That is what this thread is about. If you lack the reasoning skills to perceive the difference between that and the claim that Jasmine's paternity has no bearing on her claims (for precedence, presumably - it is not always easy to follow your "reasoning"), we can only sit back, enjoy your comments, and hope you don't embarrass yourself too much otherwise.
"I think the type of ranking distinction you are thinking of is where the King or Queen is HM (His/Her Majesty) where Princes and Princesses will get the honorific of HRH (His/Her Royal Highness)."
No, the distinction I was thinking of is between a ruling King or Queen (such as Elizabeth II), vs. a ruling Prince, such as Albert of Monaco. I know Albert is "His Serene Highness", is that how you designate a ruling Prince?
Although it's not clear if the Princes in "Beauty and the Beast" is ruling anything. He has a castle of his own, but as the region seems to be functioning during his "beast" years, I'm beginning to doubt that he was the local head of state.
This thread is freaking me out. I have no idea who Aurora or Tiana even are.
Back to the March Madness thread I go...
R57, I agree with your take on reducing the sexual threat of villains by making the villains comical. However, the feyness and nelly timidity that often comes in represents Disney's - and society's - associations of such traits with wickedness, subterfuge, cowardice, and cruelty. It's rather like the Iago effect (although Iago was tough enough, really). And even intelligence is suspect.
Disney went from the wooden, noble, no-personality hero to the juveniled assholery of Aladdin, and it was only when the story demanded a different type (as in "Beauty and the Beast" that other personality traits were included. And intelligence is suspect unless it is invested in a youthful character - or a
Of we were considering order of precedence in a true cartoon world, rather than in Elizabeth's court, I suppose we would also need to include Nala as Simba's consort. And since in the lion culture, regardless of Disney's take on the Royal King Male, it is the females who actually determine almost everything, perhaps Nala would be switching her tail in Belle's and Tiana's faces as she entered the ball.
HSH is not a bullshit term for lower-rate monarchies. Durlacht (which translates to HSH) goes back to the days of the Holy Roman Empire. Queen Elizabeth II's grandmother was born a HSH.
The Durlacht in Holy Roman Empire times were the prince-electors that voted on a Holy Roman Emperor.
Thus, the term was a totally different thing than as used by hereditary ruling families of places like Monaco now.
Princess Beatrice has a bit of a Disney look about her. Those eyes, white chicklet teeth, pale skin and red hair.
You people are the faggiest faggots who ever fagged.
And you, R75, are a larval parasite in society's stool.
Even if you're correct in your appraisal.
I think Buzzfeed googled themselves and were somehow inspired by our fight over Belle in this thread.
Note to Grand Dutchess Anastasia: Bitch, you were a 20th Century Fox Princess. Take your trashy ass to Monaco and smoke ciggies with Alfred's bastards.
You are my soul mate, r79.
[quote]Princess Beatrice has a bit of a Disney look about her.
Bea and Eugenie would be perfect as The Ugly Stepsisters in a live action remake of "Cinderella"
Bitches, please. Leia Organa of Alderaan is now a Disney Princess, and she would kick all those other princesses' ass.
Leia's princess title was just a curious formality in Alderaan, granted to daughters of Senators and born for the duration of the fathers term. It doesn't imply royalty in the sense we have on Earth, there was no throne for her to succeed to. She would probably be given precedence behind Jasmine, Snow, Aurora and the mermaid, but ahead of Pocahontas.
Does the fact that Ariel is the daughter of the Sea King not count? Like dominion over all the seas and magic powers to boot surely gives her a boost in stature? She's on another level to the others.
Aurora is my favourite, though.
Glad you left off that frizzy red haired Merida. Bitch needs industrial strength keratin treatments.
Actually he's only the king of one region of the sea, R84 - "Merfolk".
Yes, but if you are Princess of a Planet that no longer exists, are you still a princess?
The princess is still a princess, even after her home planet has been destroyed. One is correctly addressed by the highest title one has ever held - a retired ambassador or president is addressed as "Ambassador" or "Mr. President" for the rest of his or her life.
Does Leia's standing as an Imperial Senator give her a leg up on any of the other princesses?
Nope, R88. Ex-King Simeon of Bulgaria didn't have a leg up to his kingly peers even after he was Prime Minister of Bulgaria. It's based on who reigned first.
But surely if you're a Princess of a people who no longer exist... that has to rank you lower than a princess who reigns over people who aren't toast.
But Princess Leia wasn't really from Alderaan. She was from Naboo and the daughter of the Naboo Queen Amidala, making her a princess of the blood royal from Naboo, which was not destroyed, right?
Queens in Naboo were elected and then were no longer queens when they served their terms.
R84 has a point. I forgot that Daddy was a "king." It doesn't matter that he's not Poseidon Himself. The fact that he had a kingly claim to some portion of the sea's dominion is enough for his daughter to be afforded a spot with the other royal princesses. Insipid as she is.
Again, Ariel's father is King Triton, and in Greek mythology Triton is the son of Poseidon, one of the twelve major Gods of the Greek pantheon.
That makes Ariel granddaughter of a God-with-a-capital-G, as well as a Princess by blood. So I'd say she came #1 in precedence... except that she probably gave up her status as a demigoddess when she had Ursula turn her into a human. IMHO that puts her back in the pack.
I think Jasmine probably has the best jewels. Those middle eastern princesses drip with jewels, to the point of questionable taste. If wealth were the measure of precedence (which of course it never is) then Jas would be leading the procession.
Ok, I made a mistake but didn't realize until I clicked to send the message. Brunei isn't part of the Middle East.
where is rapunzel in all of this...She seems like she is an only child, so i assuming she would be queen of all the land when her parents kick the bucket..
Also Ariel was the youngest of her sisters, so she was technically the prince edward of the disney royals..unless Prince Eric is high ranking..hmm and since we never heard heard of Prince Eric's father, he must of been sick or something. so soon Prince Eric would assume the throne and Ariel would be his queen..
R94, great points. But the Court of St. James does not recognize degree of deity as a consideration in assessing precedence. Interestingly, church leaders rank very high, but beings on the other side of the divinity divide officially would receive no normal recognition.
But certainly a descendant of the Lord of the Seas would, indeed, rank exceedingly high. I think technically she would be considered Imperial rather than merely Royal.
I think the daughter of the Lord of The Sea should use the honorific 'Lady' prior to her Christian name. I base this on the daughters of First Sea Lord Louis Mountbatten who were styled as daughters of Earls.
Mulan is a cunt
Mulan is a fucking peasant. She'd be banished to the kiddie table with Princess Michael, Princess Charlene of Monaco, and Countess Luann de Lesseps!
would Nancy Tremaine be included? she is the one from Enchanted that ended up Prince Edward..though i never understood that kingdom, was Susan Sarandon's character Prince Edward's mom? and was she a queen.? i cant remember
In "Enchanted", the wicked queen was the widow of the queen, Prince Edward's stepmother, and I believe she was regent until Prince Edward turned 21 or got married. If she got rid of him before either happened, she got to stay queen.
So at the end, Nancy the designer from NY got to be queen consort, not a princess. Hey, she outranks all the princesses!!
R102, your refusal to use capital letters to start sentences while capitalizing proper nouns indicates a personal issue of an alarming type. Please correct your silly posturing or risk seeming to be what you may in fact be but perhaps aren't.
In terms of precedence, you're dead last until then.
The princess in Enchanted is NOT a "Disney Princess."
She is a princess who happens to be a movie produced by the Disney studio. Same for that bitch in The Princess Diaries.
They don't count.
The Nostalgia Critic did a video about the Disney Princesses this past week. Really worth watching.
I always wondered how things went after the end of "Beauty and the Beast", when the Prince is back in his castle and his subjects have to start paying taxes again.
All you friggin' bastards have forgot me, a Princess of the Scottish Clans, who could whoop all the other Princesses arses and still be a lady about it! PLUS, did I mention, I'm Scottish?
There aren't enough "Marys" for this thread.
Merida, please! Your father's "kingdom" consists of ten wattle-and-daub huts and twenty sheep.
Mulan is a lesbian.
Any marriage Cinderella may have contracted with Prince Charming would clearly be morganatic and result in her receiving one of his lesser titles, likely Duchess of Politeness or Baroness Nice Enough. When Prince Charming accedes to the throne as King Charming, she would be styled as a mere Princess Consort.
Sylvia Leonora, Lady Brooke, Ranee of Sarawak was given precedence by Lillibet as the Queen of the Headhunters.
Queen of the fucking headhunters!
Sylvia needs to be given the Disney treatment!!!
Does the list need to be revised to include Elsa? She and Snow White might be neck and neck with them both being Queens.
Aurora has now been elevated to Queen.
Aurora reigns supreme over the lesser Disney Princesses.
So if Aurora marries Prince Whatshisface and their fathers die, she'll be queen of two kingdoms! That would put her in first place, except...
Snow White was also the only child of a deceased king, and was set to marry a prince, so once they married and inherited they'd also have two kingdoms. Still, it puts them ahead of Jasmine.
Ariel is first, because she is the favourite daughter of the ruler of all the realm of Neptune, not just some piddling little obscure kingdom.
No, Ariel is not real.
Ahem, Aurora is the queen of two united kingdoms of which she is regnant. If she married a prince who succeeded she'd be a queen a third time but consort.
"Ariel is first, because she is the favourite daughter of the ruler of all the realm of Neptune"
Being the "favorite" means nothing in terms of succession, did he ever refer to her as his heir? I mean, if there are other daughters, and possibly sons, then she probably isn't first in line for the throne.
And her father's immortal anyway, he can't even be killed. The only way anyone is going to get his kingdom is to force him out of power, and a weenie like Ariel isn't going to be the one to do that! No, Ariel will be an Undersea Princess for all eternity, and queen consort of her husband's kingdom for a mortal lifetime.
I don't think she even makes the top five.
I take it Elsa is not included because she became Queen when she reached age? She's waaaay hotter than Snow White ever could be.
As the OP of this thread, we admit to having become completely flummoxed by the various arguments made, and was astonished to find that even Aurora had suddenly been elevated to Queen Regnant. Add that to all the semi-divinities and the perplexities of comparative rankings between actual versus legendary princesses, and we think that after all these months we should just give up our plans to entertain this mass of celluloid and digital (and how does one assign precedence to medium of existence, for Christ's sake?) princesses. We already had given up on making the birthday deadline. And now, with our loss of Scotland looming, we feel our own position is being shaken. We even have returned to our royal we in order to feel better.
So we think that, unless a definitive listing can be provided, we shall simply go to the stable with an apple and some carrots in our purse and have lunch with our elder daughter-in-law. If you CAN assist, however, please do.
[quote]No, Ariel will be an Undersea Princess for all eternity, and queen consort of her husband's kingdom for a mortal lifetime.
I mean, does Ariel even have the Undersea Princess thing going for her? Didn't she basically give all that up to become human?
R1 must be a Jewish-American Princess, hence the racism towards Jasmine.
Which, if any, Disney Princess was born of parents who were both Royal in their own right? And how does this factor in with regard to Precedence?
Let's not forget the "forgotten" Disney Princesses.....and why Amy Adams should fire her lawyers.....