Danny Kaye/Sylvia Fine
Charles Laughton/Elsa Lanchester
Laurence Olivier/Jill Esmond
Merchant & Ivory, the independent film makers. Claudette Colbert & her Dr. Hubby, Paul Newman / Joanne Woodward
does lavender marriage mean both parties are gay?
Speaking of Danny Kaye, around 40 years ago, he hit on my boyfriend while he was at Sun River.
r4, Sun River, near Bend, OR? I could tell you stories...
RE 3 I think Lavender marriage / relationship means one, or both are gay, but the marriage is to hide that for one, or both. I'm so confused .
Andre Agassi/Steffi Graf
Lawrence Olivier / Joan Plowright
Bradley Cooper / Jenifer Espisito ( though I dont think she realized she was in one)
Will Smith /Jada
Not all Holywood but:
Rock Hudson and Phyllis Gates (duh!)
Judy Garland and Vincente Minnelli
Judy Garland and her last 2 husbands
Liza Minnelli and all 3 husbands
Alfred Lunt and Lynne Fontanne
Merle Oberon and Art Director Cedric Gibbons
Katherine Cornell and her producer husband
Loretta Young and Costume Designer Jean Louis
Joan Sutherland and her impressario husband
Michael Redgrave and Rachel Kempson (in spite of the 3 kids)
Cole Porter and his society lady wife
George and Martha Washington
On Broadway, Katherine Cornell and Guthrie McClintic.
Theresa Hellburn and Cheryl Crawford enjoyed a "Boston Marriage."
Danny Kaye and Nick Long, Jr were lovers in the 1930s and toured together as a comedy team. They traveled to London together and worked at the Dorchester, but Danny was a flop, they fell out and Kaye went back to the states. Nick was an incredible dancer, his parents were well-known stage actors in New York (Nick Long Sr, and Idelena Cotton) and he started in the theater when he was 6 - like Rooney. Many people know him from Broadway Melody of 1936. He died in an auto accident in 1949 when he was 43.
My family knew George and Martha in Virginia, they actually knew Martha very well and she gave jewelry to them which we donated to a museum. The family story was that George was gay and it was a marriage of convenience - I remember hearing the story when I was a kid in the 1960's.
Do lesbians like lavender? Wouldn't they prefer a light shade of army green (which would complement lavender nicely)?
Ona Munson (played the Madame in GWTW) to actor/director Edward Buzzell.
Guthrie McClintic had also been married to Estelle Winwood, who along with galpals Eva LaGallienne, Blyth Daly, and Talullah Bankhead made up "The Four Riders of the Algonquin."
Othe lavender marriages of that era:
Allah Nazimova and Charles Bryant
Beatrice Lillie and Sir Robert Peel
Laurette Taylor and J. Hartley Manners
Rudolph Valentino and Jean Ackers and Natacha Rambova
[quote]Merle Oberon and Art Director Cedric Gibbons
Merle and Cedric were never married. Merle's husbands were Sir Alex Korda, Lucien Ballard, Bruno Pagilai and Robert Wolders.
Is Mark Gero still among the living?
My mistake. MGM Art Director Cedric Gibbons was married to Dolores del Rio which is even gayer.
I believe Mark Gero is younger than Liza. He is still alive. According to the internet, it was her longest marriage. He is generally thought not to be gay.
To be fair, Garland's longest marriage was to Sid Luft who was most certainly not gay.
I believe all their other husbands were gay, except perhaps Judy Garland's first, David Rose.
Betty White/ Allen Ludden. Worked with someone who worked for them years ago.
I heard the same thing about Ludden, from someone who knew them. So is Betty's man hungry bit all an act ? Is she a 90 YO lezzie on the DL ?
You know, I really don't know but I think it was that he was gay and she was fine with it and was just simply head over hils in love with him.
I believe the Betty/Allen story.
...and here I was so hoping to join this august company.
So Julie's a lez, and Blake liked the peen ? Both , or one ?
Didn't Doris Roberts have a gay husband?
Phylicia Rashad always pings a little for me....and she was married to that guy from the Village People
"Merchant & Ivory, the independent film makers. "
Are you suggesting that every established gay relationship is a lavender marriage?
Ok. But that's not what OP is talking bout.
No mention of me? *sulks*
r36, you're thinking of Charlotte Rae.
Add Jean Stapleton and Bill Putch. When they ran the Totem Pole Playhouse in Pennsylvania he favored the male apprentices.
I don't see how Judy or Liza's gay marriages fall in the "lesser known" lavender marriages.
Here's a lavender one:
Lena Horne - Lennie Hayton
Her bio always states that they stayed married until his 1971 death. Yeah, legally. She was long gone, but they played married in public a few times in the 1960s.
Naomi Watts abd Liev Scriber
Matt Damon and his italian waitress
Candice Bergens first marriage
R39 or me.
Watch it, David Ehrenstein may come in here!
I remember an episode of Password where guest Angie Dickinson ribs Allen Ludden for his fondness of Burt Bacharach.
Merchant and Ivory never really played up their relationship, though.
Except for bickering like an old married couple on DVD commentary tracks.
Blake Edwards & Julie Christie.
Mike Nichols & Diane Sawyer.
Tammy and Nicole Kidman
Mention Andrew Sullivan - that will do it
"Add Jean Stapleton and Bill Putch. When they ran the Totem Pole Playhouse in Pennsylvania he favored the male apprentices"
Was she gay, too? Or just a beard?
"Blake Edwards & Julie Christie."
Well obviously, R53, he meant Blake Edwards and Julie Newmar.
Alas - we'll never add Ryan Semencrest and Julianne Hough to this list. Life can be cruel!
Julie Andrews, not Julie Christie.
How can somebody forget its Julie Andrews?
Danny Kaye was straight
Peter Allen was bisexual. I think Liza talked about how great a sex life they had in an interview a while back.
Paul was straight, as is Joanne.
LOL, r58. If anyone on earth was totally gay it was Peter Allen. Liza was off being gay herself during that marriage. Whatever she said in public (link?) was bullshit.
If bisexual means that Peter Allen could have sex with men and women, but totally preferred men, there may be some truth in Minnelli's comments. But, I agree that it almost certainly bullshit.
So is any believe that Garland was unaware that Peter Allen was gay from the first time she met him...long before Liza was involved.
[quote]Danny Kaye was straight[/quote]
I wonder about that.
Richard Benjamin and Paula Prentiss have been married for over fifty years or something like that. Richard Benjamin always pinged a wee mite bit to me.
R60, what comments? Has anybody got a quote? I remember Liza being quoted as saying that sex in that marriage was the pits - made during the marriage itself. If I find it I'll give the source.
R61, Benjamin is Jewish.
Travolta and Preston also have had kids together. Not sure if a man is getting his wife pregnant should be considered fake!
Yeah but how did she get pregnant? I am absolutely sure Travolta has never had sex with his wife.
R65 Oh i'm sorry the fly on the wall speaks! LOL
Blake Edwards and Julie Brown (the black one).
Joanne always pinged for me, even when I was a little kid. And then when people started saying Paul was gay, it was kind of easy to believe.
Mike Nichols and Diane Sawyer
M and her husband
Blake Edwards and Dana Andrews
Herbert Ross and Nora Kaye. I just had this discussion with a friend over Ross's later marriage to Lee Radziwell.
Nora Kaye liked having sex with homosexuals.
[quote] Travolta and Preston also have had kids together. Not sure if a man is getting his wife pregnant should be considered fake!
ah...we have such tender sweet innocents thinkers here at DL.
Seriously. How many of us have known gay men who have fathered kids with their wives? How many? I know two men who have done this...there must be many.
R58 is a bit declamatory, but may be right about Kaye, who told his last girlfriend that he never had a gay experience even though Joan Plowright once said (and later denied everything about it) that Kaye ruined Olivier's and Leigh's marriage. And Kaye did have other women in his life, especially after the estrangement with Fine, and they did have a daughter. But to me it all smells like the Cary Grant Syndrome, where a bisexual man stifles his history and inclinations to preserve what he thinks should be his legacy.
As for Newman, I never heard anyone in the business talk about anything tangible as far as gay relationships. However, Redford is another story, as is Charlton Heston.
Kaye had a whole string of boyfriends
Richard Nixon and Pat Nixon
Bob Fosse and Glen Vernon
Oscar de la Renta and his wife. His longterm bf is that Italian guy who used to run his design business.
[quote]Bob Fosse and Glen Vernon
Now, who is this you're referring to?
"However, Redford is another story, as is Charlton Heston."
 You are absolutely correct. When I was just a kid living in a small town where everyone knows the color of everyone else's underwear, there was a gentleman who was married with 4 children. This was ages before IVF or even turkey baster children. He was the town's Liberace: always sporting ascots with velvet jackets and such.
At the age of 55, he and the missus divorced, and he moved to Atlanta and greener(or more lavender) pastures.
The kicker is (I am dead serious) his last name was Gaywright. Don't worry about privacy issues....he's surely long gone, and I feel safe to say his late middle aged kids don't visit DL.
I thought Eve LeG's long time companion was actress Josephine Hutchinson
R79, Fosse was a notorious pussyhound. Was he bearding for Gwen? Is that why she tolerated all his womanizing?
R61, "a wee mite bit"? What is that supposed to mean?
Richard (John Boy) Thomas and Alma Gonzalez, the mother of his triplets.
Now married to another woman and father of another child.
Oh I'd love to marry in Lavender!!!!
It sounds like some people want to have the family experience but were not heterosexual.
In that "MakIng Of Boys In The Band" documentary,Lawrence Luckinbill said his female agent,Janet Roberts I think her name was,was gay and so was her husband! Anyone know more about this couple?
Naomni and Leiv are not part of a lavendar marriage...
I thought she was Nicole's lover? When I saw them holding hands, I believed it.
Remember when Tom and Nicole were married and someone supposedly caught them arguing like a married couple over a cell phone?
I think that was all set up so they would look like they were a normal man and wife. Probably Burt Fields had his boy Pelicano, set that up.
Cristina Applegate and Johnathon Schaech
Diane von Furstenberg and Barry Diller
When I grew up in Teaneck, N.J. two married couples lived a the two family house nearby. No one knew until many years later though legally married the real couples were male-male, female-female.
r52, Jean was the beard. They had two kids, boy and girl.
More than a few of those classic British actors were married with children whilst sucking a lot of strange cock on the side. Michael Redgrave and Alan Bates come to mind. Some suspicion of Alec Guinness and John Mills too.
Diane von Furstenberg and Barry Diller - good choice, r92. Although is there anyone that doesn't know he's gay?
R96 The gossip mill has indicated that Diller married Diane because he wants to leave his estate to her son, tax free.
Jennifer Beals and her husbands (ex and current).
Sam Mendes and Kate Winslet? There have been rumors about him on here...if true, did Kate know?
Janet Gaynor and Adrian
Janet Gaynor and Paul Gregory
Mary Martin and Ben Hagman
Mary Martin and Richard Halliday
I shall be snickering about r79's "Glen Vernon" for the rest of the the week.
Update: Yo bitches! Beyonce has moved over 1.8 million copies of her latest in less than four days. Conrats, Queen Bey! We luv ya, gurl!
So, are you saying Bouncy is in a lavender marriage?
F&F Beyonce's publicist who is infecting dozens of threads with that gibberish @ R102.
Lilyan Tashman and Edmund Lowe.
R58 Danny Kaye and Paul Newman were straight? No way!
Don't you think Nicholas Sparks (love his books!) and whomever he's married to with 5 kids? He just has gay face for days.
R2, Merchant and Ivory weren't married, and if they were, it would not be a lavender marriage; it would be a gay marriage; they were both men.
R9, although you are correct that Liza had three gay husbands, one can't say that "all three" of her husbands were gay, in that she had four, one of whom, Mark Gero, was apparently straight.
[quote]Peter Allen was bisexual. I think Liza talked about how great a sex life they had in an interview a while back.
It was sizzling!
Liza had a GREAT sex life during her marriage to Peter Allen. But he wasn't part of it.
That marriage was based on friendship and immigration laws.
Kelly Preston and her turkey baster.
I'm very curious about Bouncy's marriage.
Diane von Furstenburg and Egon von Furstenburg
as for "the gossip mill [having] indicated that Diller married Diane because he wants to leave his estate to her son, tax free," this is nonsense. One cannot leave money to one's offspring, let along step-children, tax free. One can leave it to one's spouse tax free, but when it passes to the next generation, only a couple of million dollars can be left before the estate is completely taxed.
R98, details, please!
[quote] Don't you think Nicholas Sparks (love his books!)
You just outed yourself as a frau, R107.
r103 Beyonce is in a lavender marriage.
Just to set the record straight, traditionally a lavender marriage consists of a man and woman who are both gay.
So not all the couples named so far qualify.
I'll add Kate Hepburn and the man she married.
Luddow Smith, Katherine Hepburn's husband was straight. He remarried after he and Hepburn divorced. He and Hepburn remained friends
"Doesn't Paul Newman ping for y'all?"
R58, Peter Allen was NOT bisexual. I asked him. In person. He told me all about Liza. He loved her, but as best friend/green card source only. I met his husband Greg later that week. He wasn't bi, either.
Kate Jackson and Andrew Stevens. I never bought them as a couple. She also hung out with Liza M back then too. Makes me wonder if those two had a fling.
Kate Jackson has aways been rumored to be gay. Wasn't she linked to the actress that played the wife on Welcome, Back Kotter? But I've never heard anything about Andrew Stevens. He doesn't strike me as gay.
The hills are alive with the sound of whatshername?
I agree, r121.
Now, just remember what you wrote when we discuss gay female celebs. The DL gays will not accept anything but bi when it comes to them.
Jared Padalecki/Genevieve Cortese
Jensen Ackles/Danneel Harris
Both of their marriages are very hinky.
My sister worked for Joanne Woodward for a time and they were definitely not gay. I spent some time with both of them. When they first met they had to sneak around because he was still married. Joanne is not at all like she seems - she's very funny and blunt about things like sex and embarrassed the heck out of Paul all the time, but he was used to it. They were a wonderful couple and very devoted to one another.
Also I'm not sure why bisexuality isn't really acknowledged in this thread. Rachel Kempson and Michael Redgrave weren't a lavender marriage so far as I know. He told her up front that he was bi, and she didn't care. When he was writing his autobiography, his son was helping him, and that's when he told his son. His son said if that was the case, he needed to write about it.
"Mary Martin and Ben Hagman"
I have never heard anyone suggest that Ben Hagman was gay. As for Martin, she was sixteen or seventeen when they married, and their son, Larry, was born before she was eighteen. And the marriage did not last long.
Both Alfred Lunt and Lynn Fontanne were family. From a blind item in a 1933 tabloid called Broadway Brevities:
"This little fact concerns two of the greatest stars of the legitimate theatre and who are supposed to be happily married. The pair, however, are as queer as a couple of bugs. He is a pansy who is conducting an affair with his male secretary, while she is a lesbian and has several girls acting as her lovers. Cute, eh?"
TCM will be showing the Lunts in "The Guardsman" this Thursday.
A lavender marriage is one in which both parties are gay.
So most of these entries are horse shit.
Possibly Katharine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy were in a lavender relationship but not marriage. As Spencer Tracy was a gay man this partnership could of been classed as a lavender relationship. Director George Cukor, was known to have given the pair a place, not known where it was, this place was where Katharine and Spencer had relationships with the same sex, so it was kept out of the public eye. Also Katharine Hepburn was in a marriage with Ludlow Ogden Smith, which it was said that he was gay too, apparently he took his male lover and her female lover on their honey moon, as their was four present. Don't take my word for this. In my eye, Spencer Tracy was a gay man and Katharine Hepburn was a lesbian, but it was very possible.
A lavender relationship/marriage is when one or both parties are gay, and wish to conceal their sexual orientation, being from a person who has experienced this, yes I am gay and my partner was gay too, I accepted my self and so did my partner, but my parents had got on to me, my partner was not ready to come out fully, so it was to buy us time, when we was with friends and family we would kiss and hug, but behind the screen we were seeing our partners, our true partners, we were just friends and used this as a screen, we eventually came to the realisation that we could not live any lies, so we agreed that we would end this and live true, we stayed friends however, but our families were ok with it but thought that we did not need to go to that extent, we are not stereotypical gays, as one party is butch guy with loads of muscle and the other is very feminine. So it can happen, we were not married but it still worked for us, it helped us in so many was, but sometimes I would not recommend it, (note it is not a friend with benefits as there was no sex involved).
Of course the interesting thing here is that the lavender color did not prevent people from having children - often multiple children.
There's more to it than mere cover.
Hilary Swank and Chad Lowe were such a couple IMHO.
Vincent Price and Coral Browne.
There are rumors about the marriage of art director Wiard Ihnen (won Oscars for Wilson and Blood on the Sun) and costume designer Edith Head
Loretta Young and Jean Louis - I'm sure that was just for companionship, not to cover up anything.
Laurence Olivier is bi.
Paul and Joanne were a straight couple.
And sometimes, the woman or man doesn't care that the partner is gay or bi. And it's possible to love one another while still being attracted to the opposite sex.
Cole Porter and his wife loved one another, and she knew his situation. She left him when he started being very indiscreet, but came back to him when he had that horrible accident. Did they sleep together? I'd say in his case it's doubtful, but I don't know.
Fran Drescher and her husband were married for years and had a good sex life. He thought he might be gay and told her, and he finally came out. I saw them a while ago on an interview and he said he still loves her, and he'll always love her.
It's hard to pigeonhole sexuality. It's not as black and white as some people think.
AUNTIE MERV and any woman!
N. Sparks' books stink, but he really comes across as a friend of (who shall we say now--we used to say Dorothy.
[quote]Paul and Joanne were a straight couple.
Kay Francis and anyone.
Andy Roddick/Brooklyn Decker.
To the persons posting about tennis stars: I have always thought Agassi and Roddick were gay with lesbian wives. Any specific info?
R145 Brooklyn openly "pals" around with women. Rihanna being one of them. She seems to be more open about lezzing out and about than Andy is.
I've heard rumors about Agassi but anyone you dated Barbara Streisand is either gay, an attention whore or is a downright gold digger.
Steffi Graf isn't gay, that I know.
[R142] Yeah, really - did you ever spend time with them? I did. My sister worked for Joanne for a long time.
For a gay woman, Kay Francis sure had a lot of abortions.
Mark Gero is still alive, and is now a successful businessman living in Europe. He also re-married.
Gero was incredibly good-looking. The photos linked here do not do him justice. He met Liza while he was stage manager for "The Act", and she
was attracted to him from the start.
I don't know if it's true, but Gero was rumored to be very well-endowed.
This isn't a lesser-known marriage, but neither are Cruise and Travolta, and they're on this list, so how about Timberlake and J. Biel?
How about Robert Wolders...married Merle Oberon, then with Audrey Hepburn, Leslie Caron and Shirlee Fonda. Just sayin...
I read this entire thread.
PAUL NEWMAN WAS NOT GAY!!! Geesh!
"You're a queer one, Julie Jordan."
A couple of months ago, I had my "innocent dreams" of the past destroyed when I read that one of Paul Newman's lovers was STEVE MCQUEEN! Oh my, my, my.
Okay not marriage but Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon.
8 pages, and no mention of Penelope Cruz and Javier Bardem? That seems like one of the more obvious modern lavender marriages. At least it's more convincing than Cruz/Cruise, where she simply couldn't hide her contempt for that asshole.
And no mention of one of the more famous relationships, Robert Taylor and Barbara Stanwyck?
Alec Guinness was bisexual, and his marriage was real, not lavender. He loved his wife, but fought his attraction to men and was apparently guilty about occasional lapses with guys. According to one unauthorized biography, he was arrested for a homosexual act in a public bathroom in 1946 a la George Michael, and gave a fake name to the police and courts (a somewhat obscure Dickens character, if I recall correctly) that saved his reputation and kept the arrest secret. Guinness converted to Catholicism in the 1950's, and I think he kept more on the straight and narrow, so to speak, from that point, but it's been a while since I read the book, and I can't remember the details.
Kate Jackson and Andrew Stevens? We could be so lucky...
There was an article back in 1987 in People magazine about Merchant and Ivory. They basically just dismissed the idea of discussing their relationship in detail -- in that old fashioned way.
This is their house in the Hudson Valley that Ivory still lives in, btw
That recent wedding in Venice, Italy, adds another couple to the list.
No one mentioned my first husband? You're slipping.
Julie Andrews/Tony Walton
Steve Allen was on the downlow but I don't know whether he was gay or bi, whether Audrey Meadows was gay, bi or straight, or whether she was even aware of his escapades. They definitely cared very much about each other, regardless. They had a child together and he had three children by his first wife.
As someone said above, sexuality is not always as simple as black or white.
And Newman was at least bi. It was well known.
Duh, I meant Jayne Meadows, not her sister, of course.
[quote]Steve Allen was on the downlow but I don't know whether he was gay or bi, whether Audrey Meadows was gay, bi or straight, or whether she was even aware of his escapades. They definitely cared very much about each other, regardless.
OMG, did Jayne Meadows know her sister, Audrey, was carrying on with Jayne's husband, Steve Allen? This is shocking news.
You'll have to type quicker next time, R164.
You people--all of you---are absolutely insane.
Danny Kaye is an interesting case. Not exactly a guy you'd think of as such a man-whore - he was not very physically attractive (like Leslie Howard, who also seemed to "get around" but apparently only with women) - but very talented and seemed charming. He was married and acc. to the great Eve Arden(?!), was her lover as well; however, it's well-known that Laurence Olivier was smitten with him and after all, he was more of a "musical" star than anything else. Which makes me think of Nelson Eddy ... ? And too bad about Gene Kelly (being so straight and all). What a sexy Republican!
Anybody else know the story of Olivier and Kaye in disguise as a Customs officer?
Marlon Brando and Wally Cox
I knew someone who claimed that Newman and Woodward used her spare room on 52nd street in Manhattan when they were both married to other people for loud, passionate sex. She knew a lot that turned out to be true about people in "show business", so that while not above exaggerating her role in affairs, I believed her. Newman was widely said to have same sex affairs on movie sets that ended when the movie did, he was ruthless about enforcing this. I heard this from a lot of people, so I assume it was true, at least now and again. I have never heard that Woodward was gay; many women "in the business" simply tolerate "flexibility" in the man they love or want/see an advantage to be with, whether they are "flexible" themselves or not.
The Lunts were very closeted, he told a young Monty Clift to hide his sexuality, butch it up and find an understanding woman (as cover if nothing else). Since Monty had just made a pass at him that was pouring cold water over things.
The story is a famous one told in various versions but is narrated in detail in The "Fabulous Lunts" by Jared Brown. Brown avoids the couple's gayness (widely known) and the number of bi or gay members of their company, which toured endlessly in between Broadway runs (Sydney Greenstreet was in the company. Though married to a woman who became schizophrenic, he was quite the queen but Brown again downplays this without entirely denying it).
Charles Laughton and Elsa Lanchester were also a gay man and a bi tending straight woman who were married, not always happily.
Many English actors married, despite conflicted sexuality. Michael Redgrave was not only strongly attracted to men but also very much into BD/SM (there's a famous, well attested story of John Gielgud greeting him with "Sir Michael Redgrave, I'll be bound!"), but appears to have loved his wife (apparently intermittently bi) and daughters. One of them, Vanessa Redgrave married Tony Richardson, who died of AIDS but evidently was bi. Natasha was their daughter.
Alec Guinness married but admitted toward the end of his life, that his devout Catholicism had caused him huge suffering, since his various homosexual affairs occasioned tremendous guilt.
Although it's likely that many of the stories about Olivier are untrue, he seems at least to have been bi throughout his life. There appears to be good reason to believe that both he and Joan Plowright, his wife at the time, had affairs with Peter Finch.
No one above mentioned Tony Perkins, as big a queen as ever queened, marrying Berry Berenson. They had two sons; he died of AIDS, she died on 9/11.
Also, no one mentioned Moss Hart, who married Kitty Carlisle. I knew Steven Bach who wrote the compendious bio of Hart called DAZZLER and he showed me some of his research. Bach got Kitty to cooperate by promising to keep Hart's homosexuality out of the book as much as possible. One of the elderly ladies, still alive who had known Hart well is quoted in his notes as saying, "WE ALL wanted to marry Moss, he was the most fun of any man ever. He had to be married for his career. But he picked her. We all had only one word when we heard, "WHY??" Kitty did try to rein in Moss' gay life, and couldn't (she spent a year in a "facility" to try and come to terms with that). He did stop cruising the subway johns, getting arrested and beaten up, and eventually she put a stop to his all male/bathing attire discouraged pool parties. But he continued to have sex with men, though they had two children, an idiot, and a brilliant daughter who was a distinguished AIDS researcher in the early days of the epidemic.
No one mentioned Hal Prince who is gay and his straight very sweet wife, Judy Chaplin. They had two children, also a threesome with John Guare, bi -- at least -- but known in his youth and mid years for making passes at male cuties. Nor did anyone mention Bernie Gersten or his monster wife (three daughters). He and Guare were finally thrown out by Joe Papp for queening it up too much but of course landed at Lincoln Center.
I love R170.
The idea of anyone, male or female, doing it with Danny Kaye is just awful by itself--his silly mannerisms and capering around.
Newman apparently messed around in the Navy or so Gore Vidal claimed to have been told by him. I rather doubt Newman was gay and I have known people acquainted with him going back to his high school and college days.
Hey R170, a little odd, don't you think, that none of these alleged "trysts" with Paul Newman during his films ever came to light to the media nor expose books written nor slag mags exposing this.
I think most of what you have written is total bullshit by a bullshit writing queen who wants attention.
R173 - I don't think Paul Newman was gay - just my opinion from my partner who knew Paul, Joanne and the family.
However, there are other true Hollywood gay stories that are true that no one seems to get excited about or be interested in. They get posted and then vanish.
I have posted the story about Spencer Tracey and Hepburn being gay or bi and not being involved sexually. Our friend was a former BF of Cukor and Cukor told him about the two of them several times. He has been telling us this story - and others - for 30-40 years. I actually don't know if he's still alive.
I don't remember if he ever met Hepburn or Tracey himself. it's possible - he knew everyone in Hollywood at the time and was very popular. He went on to be a Billy Haines type - successful in his field and used by many of the stars. He went out of fashion and lost everything. It was really sad. He should have written a book.
They're all queer!!! (It's in my book, available on Amazon.)
It's strange. I never thought about Allen Ludden being gay while he was alive. But now, when I watch him on old episodes of Password, my gaydar starts pinging.
Chris Martin and JLaw (although not married)
I agree R173. And it's the same with Liberace. There are no photos or films of him having sex with a male so it can't be true. It was just Scott Thorson after his money.
Paul Newman and Liberace ... now those are pictures I`d like to see!!!
I finger corpses.
So many of these are incorrect it's not even funny.
First off, I'm sure Loretta Young and Jean Louis didn't get marry to hide anything, I think it was for companionship. I mean, at his age, who cared.
Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward, though everyone would like it to be a lavender marriage, wasn't.
Laurence Olivier and Jill Esmond - incorrect. Olivier said in his autobiography that he was bi.
I don't know about Andre, but Steffi Graf is straight.
Michael Redgrave didn't marry Rachel Kempson to cover anything up. She knew he was bi and didn't care. He told his son when he was working on his bio that he was bisexual, and his son said, then you should address in your book.
[R170] and [R173] seem to have some sense, though I disagree about Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward and I always will. I, too, know people who were close to the family. I met Steve Allen and Jayne Meadows, and I never thought either one of them was gay.
please, Bob Fosse was not gay.
I remember on All My Children, Peter White and Francesca James were married, and they are both gay.
I do think it's not always the case that the marriage is completely lavender. I think some people like both sexes, at least some of the people I know. Someone I've known for years had all kinds of gay affairs but was in love with two women I know well; he married one and they had two kids, and after she died, he married again. Some guys couldn't have sex with a woman if they wanted to, and most of them don't want to. I think these marriages, as someone else said, can be more complicated than is being presented here.
wynonna Judd is gay, not sure about her husband.
Margaret Whiting and Jack Wagner
Coral Brown and Vincent Price
Jack Wagner likes women as well as men.
Jack Wagner is dead, r187. He liked women, but didn't have sex with them.
Judging from [R173] one now needs to be super clear in English on Datalounge and there's no point in using the public record (that means it was universally reported in published news sources); if you do, you are "meaking things up" to "get attention" (on Datalounge, which has become the dumbest board of its kind and is anonymous?) Tony Perkins and Tony Richardson died of AIDS, Berry Berenson died on 9/11, I was MAKING THAT UP, scumbag?? There is no protection here from moronic trolls, which is why there is so little gossip or god help us, information.
[R170] I never said nor did I imply that Newman was gay. I mentioned a frequently stated rumor that came from people who worked with him. If you can read you'll notice I am on the fence about it. It's possible he played around a bit, and "a bit" in English means just that, had a way of getting off that was quick and efficient for him without involving him in the messy scandals and gossip that affairs with female stars risk. However, that I think it's "possible" and he MIGHT have done it "a bit" is not a way of saying he was gay or seriously bi or that it's true beyond a doubt.
The Moss Hart and Lunt stories are attested in the best documented books about those people, by writers who had total access to private papers and survivors, and foot note everything they say. Kitty Hart would not cooperate at first, but when she agreed if Bach kept Moss' (widely known and well documented) homosexuality on the downlow, it was too great a coup for him to pass up. In the Lunt book, in many ways one of the best books about the vanished American legitimate theater, the writer likewise seems to have felt uneasy about a well attested and widely known fact of their lives. There is no question that Hart, Lunt and Fontanne were gay, just as there is no doubt that Hart's daughter was a very distinguished early researcher into AIDS who did much valuable and brave work (DOCUMENTED, you grotesque fool at [R173].
Michael Redgrave did not cover anything up in his private life, though he didn't talk about his sexuality or predilections for publication until he wrote his autobiography. Everyone who knew him, knew the score; his wife certainly did. Like Hart, Hal Prince, Bernie Gersten and others, he enjoyed being married and loved his children. Redgrave's daughters, and Hart's daughter were remarkable, their other children less so. I hated Gersten and despised Guare, who is married but not a father, but both were very good at what they did with Guare being one of the few important American playwrights of that generation.
I wrote that I doubted most of the Olivier stories but the affair with Finch was something I know about from close friends and associates of his (his affair and Joan Plowright's affair with Finch when they were in fact married) and he was known to have been bi his entire life (some of that might have been strategic, such as his affair with Noel Coward when Coward helped him become a theater star, but in others cases probably not). I've heard conflicting stories about Danny Kaye but none have been totally convincing (to me).
Oh, fuck Datalounge.
[quote] on Datalounge, which has become the dumbest board of its kind
The very interesting and articulate R189 is correct. DL has been dumbed down beyond recognition and now seems to only attract the most moronic of trolls.
I wish it were not so.
My God, the damned have spoken!
The only troll around here is R189 who spends an inordinate amount of time typing up bullshit rumors in order to feel important and garner attention. This old Queen needs to turn in his caftan and earrings and just go away.
Didn't Vivien Leigh also have an affair with Peter Finch? Or am I mistaking him for someone else?
R176 just a hunch but I think it was the open shirts and the gold chains. Come to think of it, every man in the 70s pretty much pinged, didn't they?
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if he were bi. Something about that marriage doesn't quite add up, although I do thing they truly loved each other, even if more in a companion sense. I think Betty's straight, though. Believe it or not, back when they married, she actually benefitted more career wise.
R192 well she was a nympho (excuse me, sex addict) so just about anyone is a possibility.
[R192] Vivien Leigh did have an affair with Peter Finch; that's what the film "The VIPs" was based on, they were in fact running away together. A lot of her behavior had its basis in her illness.
[R187] I was talking about Jack Wagner - did you mean Jack Wrangler?
The hair. The glasses. The leisure suit!
On Password, Allen Ludden looked like the love child of Charles Nelson Reilly and Liberace.
The hair. The glasses. The leisure suit!
On Password, Allen Ludden looked like the love child of Charles Nelson Reilly and Liberace.
Yes, 196, Jack the porn star
Jack Wagner from Melrose Place and daytime soaps is dead?
(Announcer whispers) The password is... "closet".
R170, Judy Prince knows all about Hal's long affair with Farley Granger, and keeps Hal in line by threatening to go public. I do not know that anyone other than Hal would care.
r170 and r r189 I love you.
People mocking you are just silly, jealous assholes.
Keep it coming.
[R157] Robert Taylor and Barbara Stanwyck was not a lavender marriage - here's part of an interview by the author of her bio:
"... Each marriage was complex and came about because of complex reasons – and stayed in tact because of equally complicated reasons; neither marriage came about because of homosexuality. I asked many people who would have a somewhat informed inkling about Robert Taylor’s sexuality, people who knew him at the time, or would have heard about the (then, of necessity) underground truth of his sexuality and nowhere did I come across any hint of his being gay, including interviewing Harry Hay, founder in 1950 of the Mattachine Society. If anyone would have known, or heard about the truth of Taylor’s sexuality over the years, it would have been Harry Hay. . ."
I know Robert Wolders personally, he's not gay. There was a 7 year difference between him and Audrey and 4 years between him and Shirlee.
Van Johnson and Evie Wynn
[R205] Right, MGM wanted Johnson to be married, and he said the only woman he would marry was Evie Wynn. They were all friends, and lived in the same neighborhood. So MGM had Evie come in and told her if she didn't divorce Wynn, his contract wouldn't be renewed.
Wynn married twice more.
[R170], Arthur Laurents is the one who had and wrote (tactlessly) about his fling with Farley Grainger, no doubt exaggerating his attraction to Laurents, as vicious piece of scum as existed in his time, short and homely to boot. Prince, like Gersten, tended in his active days to meet men at the baths, sometimes continuing brief affairs. Of course Prince's wife (Judy) knows (or more likely knew) the score and had some flings of her own (with males).
I was replying to [R202] above.
R58, you're deluded. Everyone knows about Olivier's long affair with Danny Kaye. In fact, Olivier had it in the first draft of his autobiography, but Plowright begged him to leave the homo stuff out.
You homo AIDS boys want anyone who's even the slightest bit attractive to be perverted because that way you can justify you inversion.
This is sickening. You should be in a mental hospital.
Before the 1970s homosexuality was a mental illness. Now we're supposed to believe just because some doctors removed it from a book it ceases to be an illness?
Why don't we remove ebola and see if that will cure it?
The problem is homosexuality IS a mental illness.
Caused by a weak father/domineering mother or molestation by a homosexual as a child.
Good parody post r211
Popeye and Olive Oyl
I can't type with only one hand it seems!
Vivien Leigh had a long-term affair with Peter Finch. They did not hide it from Olivier but carried on pretty much non-stop including during Finch's visits to the Oliviers' home at the time, Notley. Olivier could not manage Vivien's behavior and Finch seemed to be able to keep her on a relatively even keel. This was during a particularly grim phase of Vivien's illness which caused Olivier and everyone else concerned a great deal of suffering. It seems unlikely that Olivier or Joan Plowright had an affair with Finch-- while Olivier managed a peculiar sort of detente with Finch as long as he was involved with his then-wife Vivien, Finch had nothing but unhappy associations for Olivier and after he died Olivier reportedly said "I'm glad he's dead."
R210/R211 are the best argument for the systematic extermination of heterosexuals that ever was. You "people" have destroyed the earth with your uncontrolled breeding, and very little you have created is of value. Do us all a favor and drop dead.
To 149, who wrote "For a gay woman, Kay Francis sure had a lot of abortions" -- she was bi and had many, many partners, as a recent book based on her diaries indicates.
What about Tony Curtis? I always got a vibe from him.
[R167] "Danny Kaye is an interesting case. ... he was not very physically attractive (like Leslie Howard, who also seemed to "get around" but apparently only with women) - but very talented and seemed charming. ...
First of all, talent and charm are INCREDIBLY sexy. Second of all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I -- like many people I know -- find both DK and LH very attractive. Yes, their features, not just their inner appeal shining out, tho that's considerable, too. Sheesh.
[R170], I think you'll find that Peter Finch had an affair with the *second* Mrs Olivier (Vivian Leigh), not the third (Joan Plowright).
R213 Every one knows that Popeye loved only Bluto and vice versa. Olive Oyl was madly in love with Wimpy, who only had eyes for Betty Boop.
if all of these are the "lesser know" marriages what are the well known marriages?
Zsa Zsa supposedly begged the gay dept store heir Charles Lloyd Jones to marry her.
In the old days, a lot of times women didn't know they were marrying gay men. Someone told me a story of Rosemary Harris, a wonderful actress if you don't know who she is, married to director Ellis Raab. One day she came into the dressing room for the show she was doing and asked the women in the dressing room how often couples have sex. Was once a month normal?
Eventually they divorced and she remarried.
What about Richard Gere and Cindy Crawford? Wondered about that union.
R219 is easily staggered, isn't she?
But then anyone who would find the preening, devious, smug and egocentric Miss Danny Fucking Kaye sexy is capable of anything.
Including stupid hyperbole.
Sorry to link to the odious Daily Mail but there is some entertaining dish in this article about Laurence Olivier's affair with Noel Coward and his fling with Danny Kaye (whom, according to the author, Coward despised, referring to him dismissively as 'Randy Dan Kaminski').