He loves to play with barbies, baby dolls and all things related to girls. He has received "boy toys" for his bday and Xmas but he just tosses them aside. Last week he wore a pink hat with a big bow on it to school for crazy hat day and even though he took a razzing by the other boys at school, he loved wearing that hat. His favorite colors are pink and purple so of course he wanted to wear a pink hat to school.
He also likes to sing...at the top of his lungs..in whomever car he's in. His favorite singers are Dolly and Anne Murray. I'm thinking of buying him a karaoke machine for his bday.
I take a lot of heat from non-family members for allowing him to play with girl toys but I don't care. I love him the way he is and it's not like he will be playing with Barbies when he 16.
What say you datalounge? Should I start encouraging him to be more boyish or just leave him alone?
Celebrate the lad. He sounds fabulous!
What R1 said.
Why do you care he wants to play with? Just be happy you have a healthy child.
What r1 and r2 said.
Just curious OP, if you had a daughter who enjoyed playing with action figures or cars and trucks, would you encourage her to be more "girlish"?
At 50 I still feel the pain from memories of my dad telling me to man up and quit being such a little girl. Hope you can continue to make him feel good about who he is.
I don't care r4...but I'm getting a lot of heat from other people about it. He can play with whatever toys he wants. I've even bought him barbies.
No r5 I would not. I do have a daughter who is very girly. I was a Tom boy as a kid but I also loved dolls and barbies too.
I believe in "live and let live". I just wish others would too.
It sounds like you're doing the right thing, OP.
[quote] it's not like he will be playing with Barbies when he 16
Hopefully by that point he will have spent at least 4 years playing with with lots of Zachs, Nathans, Skylars, Justins, AJs, etc.
You sound like a wonderful parent, keep doing exactly what you're doing, he'll turn out great.
My son did that at that age, also...I used to wonder about it but I think they are just expressing themselves and the jazz hands are to accentuate what they are saying.
He's 15 now and hasn't done jazz hands in years.
Anyway, your son sounds like a sweet little boy.
At 52, I know of kids who went every which way without a hitch, because a lot of that stuff stays in childhood like you said.
Boys who played with dolls and ended up not just straight, but in the military straight. Girls who played with technology, dirt, or sports and are married housewives. Men who played with silk and are gay. Men who played football and boxing and are gay. Women who played with paint and frills and are very gay, etc etc.
It's stupid to be slapping their hands to encourage certain gender roles at such an early age. Let him have fun and fuck your nosy non-friends!
Watch Ma Vie en rose OP! (NOT the Edith Piaf movie...)
It's a nice movie and your kid should be happy just the way he is. Gender identity and sexuality are different things, and besides I'm sure you're happy to be a lez, so... why shouldn't he be happy to?
In the great words of Annie in Imitation of Life (also recommended viewing - well perhaps ma Vie en rose will suffice): it's a sin to be ashamed of who you are
OP, as a self-described lez, you, of all people, should know that your son's sexual orientation is probably pretty set by now and nothing you could do would be anything but enforcing the gender police on him. God love you, I know you want to keep him from being bullied and from feeling pain, but, I agree with other posters, the best thing you can do is let him know he is loved exactly as he is, and to raise him to be as fierce and proud about who he is as is possible. Middle and high school seem to be awful for most people who go through them, no matter what the sexual orientation, though LGBT kids have it worse usually, depending on where they are, but I am a college teacher and I was struck, in my freshman class this year, how many 18 year olds either come to college having been out in high school (one wonderful guy came out in 8th grade), or having had an openly gay relative accepted and integrated into their families, or just not seeing it as a big deal. One of my female students basically described her mother as the "fag hag of Cobbleskill, NY" (a small rural town an hour from Albany).
Maybe at fifteen he'll be designing Barbies and will be able to support his mom(s)!
Just get a gay male friend to teach him how to throw shade--the lunchroom bullies will never know what hit them!
What exactly is wrong with him playing with Barbies at 16?
Just so that he can fit in with other boys, he does need to have some boy toys he likes.... but don't discourage him from playing with girl toys. But I guess my feeling is what is healthy is if children pick toys that interest them because it is interesting to them, not because it is a boy's toy or a girl's toy. I do have a little concern about a child who can be seen consciously rejecting toys because they are toys for the sex they themselves are.... .
My nephew wanted a doll house for his birthday. You bet I bought him the biggest one I could find. Doorbell worked, lights worked, and my sister bought him the barbies that went with it. It was awesome. He was 8 at the time. Now he's 13. Seems straight, rides motorcycles, does the usual boyish things. He's also very accepting of gay people, because my sister told him at an early age that his auntie was gay. No probs whatsoever.
one of the lesbians
[quote] I do have a little concern about a child who can be seen consciously rejecting toys because they are toys for the sex they themselves are.... .
I'm concerned that children's toys are aimed at some fucked up construct of a person's 'sex'.
Play some liza for him and see if he starts singing
R17 is confused and I wouldn't listen to him. A kid chooses the toys he likes end of story.
He won't be friendlier with the other boys if he has "boy" toys he's unhappy about.
There's just no point to that.
r17 isn't confused at all. He's correct, especially with the last sentence. If the kid is consciously rejecting something because he sees it as an expectation, he's not doing it because he WANTS to, he's doing it as a reaction to the perception of others.
To truly be yourself, you can't get stuck making choices based on whether they align with or against others.
What's the "jazz" reference about? You mean like playing the piano?
OP never ever live YOUR life by what others think. You are in control of you. Never give someone that kind of control.
So reacting against something isn't allowed because that's not being "yourself".
Kid likes what he likes.
We are projecting way too much on what his behaviour may or may not mean. Just let him live.
Unless, of course, he's not living the way he should, like R22 said.
Good for you OP, for wondering and being concerned; that seems like the mark of a smart parent.
As you well know from your own growing up, it can be hard to stand athwart societal orthodoxies and their strong expression in family members' views, but he is yours.
I would have loved a karaoke machine when I was 8! And it's neither boyish or girlish. It's humanish.
Your son is NOT a fag... and I'm the dame who can prove it!
Sounds like my nephew, Justin. He was more interested in clothes than I was, and I worked at a fashion magazine.
He turned out fine. Don't worry.
r25, I don't think you're getting it. The point in r22 is that he should be able to be himself. And if he's making choices based on what others expect (or just reacting against it), they're not his choices.
I wish we could get to a point where all hobbies and interests are considered "humanish."
R14 has good advise with the move recommendation.
Let him be.
Support him and love him just the way he is. I'm sure it's tough sometimes, but you being a lesbian mom should embrace the difference and relate. In all likelihood he will leave the dolls and jazz hands behind.
If not, then lead him to the Datalounge!
Get him a set of clip-on earrings. I used to wear my mothers only because it was so much fun to have to take one off to answer the phone. Like they used to do on old T.V. shows. I thought it was so glamorous to do that!
Why is any of this controversial or open to questioning, here on the DL? Even if it's a troll thread (which it doesn't sound like)?
i GUARANTEE that this dyke mom is deliberately making a gay son. Butch dykes hate men, they want to feminize men
OP: Leave a set of press on nails in his bedroom where he can find them. If they disappear, you have a problem.
R38. ...and the inevitable anti-lesbian post. Thanks for not disappointing us, asshole!
[quote]i GUARANTEE that this dyke mom is deliberately making a gay son. Butch dykes hate men, they want to feminize men
Is that what happened to you, hon? I'd suggest you run along and work that out with your mom, instead of taking out your bitterness on DL.
A mother doesn't need to tell her son to butch up, because there are so many other people who will give him that message. Other boys on the playground, all the relatives who are giving you "heat", teachers, etc. He WILL be told to butch up, whether momma likes it or not.
Your choice, OP, is to decide whether to reinforce that message, or to be the person who tells him it's okay to be exactly who he is.
For one thing r38, I'm not butch in the least. I'm very feminine and only like feminine woman. I am not anti men either.
I think one of the reasons my son prefers to be around girls and play with girls toys is because he is small for his age. He isn't athletic at all and is going thru the uncoordinated stage of his life.
He likes Legos but prefers the girl sets to the boy ones. I don't see what the big deal is. Why can't he play with what interests him?
BTW his ears perk up when he hears Liza and is a big Judy fan as well.
I do think boys should be encouraged to play with boy toys. Confusing a child's gender is not a good idea. I probably had a natural inclination to play house, and my liberal mother felt like she was letting me be, but in a way she was encouraging me too, pushing me into the direction until I pretended and wished I was a girl. And then socially I was teased. No young boy wants to feel that way, it's confusing and sad. Yes, I'm gay, 29 years old, happy, successful, yada yada, but wish I wasn't brought up that way.
I think he should be encouraged to play with boy toys as well and you should encourage him to play a sport like soccer. I know some people here might think that's sacrilege, but I actually couldn't encourage you more
[quote]play a sport like soccer
There are good social and team things about playing soccer, but it is in no way a boy sport or a girl sport. It's just a fun sport.
I understand your concern r44, but what she needs to do is tell him 2 very true but non-contradictory things: 1) that she loves him for who he really is and that won't change. and 2) that the rest of the world who doesn't know him may not feel that way and that he may find it useful to adapt in various ways to make his life smoother. It's kind of like learning a new accent or language, it doesn't take away what you already have it just adds to what you are.
OP, you do your daughter a great disservice by misgendering her. She needs more than your understanding - she needs a trans-approved therapist, a name change and, in a few years, a program of hormone blockers so she can develop the way her pink barbie-loving brain intended.
Forget soccer. Diving or gymnastics.
r17 is misguided. I tried to "fit in" by choosing some appealing "go along" things, toys and hobbies, and I was miserable until I said, "Oh, screw it!"
In all seriousness, get him into a beginner tap class! He will LOVE IT, and it will give him discipline, a skill he can enjoy his whole life, and help him exercise and blow off steam. Plus, he will constantly be challenged. On the down side, all he will want to talk about is why Tommy Tune got to play Lisa Kirk's role in "Mack and Mabel" on the road, and ask you if you think his own at-home version of "Tap Your Troubles Away" is better than both of theirs!
This has got to be a troll post. A lesbian concerned about having a gay kid? Worried about what other people think of her for letting her child be non-conforming (as if she's never experienced that before...being a lesbian and all). Really??
The Liza and Judy bit gave it away...love for those two is by no means innate in gay men. Liza and Judy are obvious elderg*y fascinations. I'm in my 30's, and with the exception of The Wizard of Oz, I can't tell you a single thing either of those people have done. Don't care, either. And I don't know anyone my age who's into them either.
Holly Robinson-Peete said this morning on Access Hollywood Live that her son was born with jazz hands and a headshot and resume.
What does "jazz" have to do with this?
Get out, r52. Just get out.
Is answering the question that hard r53? I know what jazz is, but how does it relate to what OP is talking about?
Jazz hands frequently accompany certain styles of jazz dance, particularly those dating back to the 50's/60's/70's.
Used frequently by the likes of Bob Fosse, Michael Kidd, Michael Bennett and others, on gay icons like Liza Minelli, Cyd Charisse, Joey Heatherton, Ann Margrett and others, the technique consists of holding your hands firm and flat in the air with fingers spread open in an indication of strength or "hotness."
The move is frequently accompanied by fancy footwork and the quintessential white gloves/top hat/derby.
If a little kid is already striking Liza/Fosse poses ... you finish that thought.
I was one of those boys who played with barbies and purses. My Mom was the coolest and didn't try to force things on me.
You're doing the right thing by letting your son follow his interests. I also agree that tap dance classes would be a good idea. (He might even like some judo/karate/tae class - they're as much performance as exercise.)I was in gymnastics and it was a good way for me to socialize with other boys outside of school.
Speaking of school, I think you should sit your son done and explain that some people aren't as accepting about boys with barbies as you are. Teach him to be okay with himself. It will serve him well for his whole life.
Thank you r55, that's a good explanation.
My mother didn't care about my fascination women's hair when I was four or 5. She didn't panic until I asked her draw a vagina on my butt. She read way too much into that request. I was going as a naked boy on one side and a naked girl on the other side, for halloween, but she thought I was interested in using my butt as a vagina. I didn't know about such things, I was only 11. She compromised and allowed me to be naked from the waist up and drew tits on my back.
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