So many times, the majority actually, I have encountered men who I pretty much know have enjoyed porn who have totally eviscerated porn workers in conversation. This board is one of the epicenters of this phenomenon of total disconnect.
I remember a thread last year about Joey DeStefano that was in praise of the actor. There was such a backlash against the very idea of a porn actor being good in any way shape or form that I came away from that thread thinking that the negative commentators were saying more about themselves than anyone else.
What's really disturbing is that whenever a porn performer kills himself there is an outpouring of negativity ranging from cold callousness to downright venom.
What I am getting at is this weird disconnect between porn performers and the people who consume their "product". Why is it we can care about mainstream actors who give us entertainment but we are conditioned to loathe porn actors who give us the same amount of entertainment, if not more so???
There are so many porn addicts, they should just make trading cards of them- like they do baseball cards. People know all their scenes and stats.
I can't imagine following who they're dating, "whatever happened to-" etc.- like it's some neverending reality show.
It's the gay version of the Madonna/whore complex. I call it the Adonis/whore complex.
They're whores, darlin'
I care about them. They bring me sexual fantasy material. I want them to be happy and earn a living wage.
It is sad how many of them get messed up on drugs. Our society needs to get over the dirty stigma of sex workers.
[quote] Why is it we can care about mainstream actors who give us entertainment but we are conditioned to loathe porn actors...
I disagree. I think the public is a little obsessed with mainstream actors, pop stars, TV reality stars, etc., but we don't actually care FOR them or wish them well. Quite the reverse. When one of them encounters bad fortune or untimely death, the media and the public swarm around like vultures.
Some of you are fascinated by the men who live out your fantasies on video, etc, but there's a similar level of resentment.
Most porn performers come from very fucked up families.
See the latest in the Harlow Cuadra thread.
Pornstars provide a service I, and tons of people, appreciate. I care and appreciate them in that sense, especially the ones who put the genuine effort into being good at what they do so they make a hotter product for me to enjoy.
I'm sorry, but queens who write weepy ass eulogies for suicidal porn stars who they have never met are really stepping over the line.
I like amateurs, not the polished, pumped and buffed product offered by the Valley.
They're grief junkies, r8.
The same queens were weeping at makeshift memorials for princess Diana.
How do you cry for someone who doesn't even know who the fuck you are?
Porn actors need to get paid better. Porn is a billion dollar business and porn producers are all millionaires yet the performers get maybe a few hundred dollars a scene. A couple thousand if they're a "big name". But for the amount of money these movies make the actors should be making at least $10,000 a scene.
Crying as I type
Ours do, r11
That's why we have all the "hot" ones.
Johnny Rapid is just so cute and is a pro at getting raped in every film. However I do worry about his 3 children and his baby mamas.
That mindset is outdated now, the internet and especially the rise of the tubesites has cut way into pornsites profit margin.
People enjoy porn but no one thinks they should have to pay for porn, myself included honestly.
I have a deep, unconditional love for Kevin Williams. My blonde, beautiful Kev.
I was watching a Netflix streaming doc called Life After Porn. It was about straight porn, but at least a couple of the porn star features had fallen on hard times (one was ill and had tons of medical bills) and their male fans actually sent them money to help them out.
r8, but the real question is, is the weepy eulogies people write for mainstream actors committing suicide or overdosing any better???
r15, a lot of people do download free torrents or go on Xtube, ManHub and the like...but the vast majority of porn viewers still go out and buy the DVDs and subscribe to the websites, believe it or not. The producers wouldn't be still at it if they saw their profit margins lowering. If anything, they've just jacked the prices up. Corbin Fisher used to be $20/m with they first started. Now they've reached almost $40/m. Same for Sean Cody and most of the other top "amateur" sites.
No r18, they aren't any better.
[quote]Johnny Rapid is just so cute and is a pro at getting raped in every film. However I do worry about his 3 children and his baby mamas.
I worry about "Take Your Child to Work Day."
There are straight men who need to have contempt for the women who arouse them. The gay men OP describes are similarly diseased.
I don't judge prostitutes and I don't judge porn performers.
There is no difference except cameras.
Best double penetration scene?
Best cum dump?
Best ass and biggest dick can be judged at any bar or vacation destination every night of the week.
NO, it is not wrong, OP. they are people, just like the rest of us. some are nice, some are not. but looking at the crowds here, MOST of them are nicer than the lot that takes up here.
There's a pron performer (thank you for not saying *star*) I used to "care" about. Not that I met him, or anything, just, I thought he looked like a lovely human being as well as an exceptionally good-looking, super-hung pronfessional. If I wanted to spend the money, I could do an escort-type relationship with him, but I know I'd fall in love with him, so I'm not doing that.
Is it wrong? How can I say? I'm not doing it, so I must think there's something wrong about it.
Welcome to the world of men. Want others to satisfy their fantasies, but have contempt for them when they do so.
Something to do with being vulnerable.
I hate to burst your bubble, R11, but the porn business (at least the gay side) is nowhere near as profitable as you think. In fact, between piracy, the crashed economy, the tubes, and the strangling government regulations, almost every gay porn company is slowly going broke (with the notable exceptions of Cody, Fisher, and AEBN-owned Falcon and Raging Stallion). Even the powerhouse that was Titan has downsized; the owner is now back selling real estate (go to his corporate website iogroup dot com for evidence). ChiChi LaRue is DJing these days, and makes maybe one or two movies a year. Michael Lucas has never been that profitable; his sugar daddy spends about a $million per year to keep him entertained and out of the house.
The GayVNs - the industry award show - hasn't happened in more than 2 years. The Grabbys only happen because of IML.
Several studios have quietly folded, a few lucky ones sold their rights to their movies to others (Collin O'neil for instance), but mostly the studio just goes on a permanent hiatus, and then you hear that the owner(s) have gone back to their non-porn career, if they can.
And then you have the fact that so many more men are willing to appear in movies that the competition has increased which translates into lower fees for the work. There are no gay porn performers that don't do something else to make the bulk of their income, whether escorting or something outside of the sex industry altogether. I've known teachers, attorneys, even a doctor who were in movies. The funny part is how people (as stated above) feel just fine downloading pron for free, and turn around and say things like models should be paid better. Well, if you're not paying for the content, how do you think the producer can pay the model?
It's not the 90's any more. Those days are long gone.
It's equally ridiculous to get deeply worked up about the comings and goings of a real actor.
They're just doing their jobs. Their job includes an element that allows you to watch their work.
They pretend for a living. Nothing wrong with that but understand it for what it is.
They don't know you and you don't know them.
[quote] Porn is a billion dollar business and porn producers are all millionaires yet the performers get maybe a few hundred dollars a scene.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Not hardly. Most companies these days are struggling to pay the electric bill.
[quote]That's why we have all the "hot" ones.
[quote]I've known teachers, attorneys, even a doctor who were in movies
I've heard this quote from about 3 or 4 differen't people who work in porn and it's bullshit.
[quote] fact, between piracy, the crashed economy, the tubes, and the strangling government regulations, almost every gay porn company is slowly going broke (with the notable exceptions of Cody, Fisher, and AEBN-owned Falcon and Raging Stallion).
Flacon and Raging Stallion were all but dead until AEBN scooped them up. Falcon's only asset of value was the catalog of old material. Chris Ward ran that company into the ground.
Corbin Fisher and Sean Cody have had to go to almost exclusively bareback to make a profit. That is about all that sells now. CF used to have a strict policy about not using talent that has worked for other companies, but has changed that in the last year or so. They have started to downsize and the quality of models has been very hit or miss. They have massive legal fees from suing a bunch of file sharing and tube sites and judgments that they will collect little, if anything on.
Next Door Male relased almost every one of their exclusives and the content they are putting out was from a year ago. Their Dylan Lucas website was a major disaster for them financially.
Porn performers are not actors. People who fuck with multiple strangers on camera for a thousand bucks are not in the realm of actors.
They are with the strippers and prostitutes, and live donkey shows. Don't judge them but don't confuse them. They should not be compared even to the least talented of actors.
Their is no talent required to be a porn slut. What world do dudes come, gay or straight to think otherwise?
Hire an escort if you like whores, but be prepared that your narrow fantasy will be shattered.
Marilyn Monroe said never meet your idols. I guess she was disappointed.
Porn is not evil, but is far from a positive force in the world.
For many gay men, a gay porn star is the kind of guy you would fantasize about fucking who would not give you the time of day in real life. So you jerk off to them, but when the fantasy/jerkoff session is over you're left feeling aggression to them because you know you couldn't have them (unless you paid for them).
Compounding this problem is that many (NOT all) porn stars have serious problems (e.g. trouble finding well paying "respectable" work; childhood sexual molestation trauma; substance abuse; severe narcissism, etc) which society is often really not very sympathetic towards--they are often damaged goods, and the guys who jerk off to porn know that, and so try to work off their feelings of sexual inferiority by feeling morally, financially, and/or socially more respectable.
It's a vicious circle, basically.
[quote]For many gay men, a gay porn star is the kind of guy you would fantasize about fucking who would not give you the time of day in real life.
Have you seen what is considered a "porn star" now? Gone are the days of good lighting and make up artists. Most gay porn stars are a dissappointment looks wise in person dear. Most are extremely short, ruddy skin, steroid body acne, and the "ubermasculine stud" turns out to be a nelly former twink.
[quote]So you jerk off to them, but when the fantasy/jerkoff session is over you're left feeling aggression to them because you know you couldn't have them (unless you paid for them).
Considering how many of them are sex addicts and pathologically troll for dick 24/7 you would be surprised how many you probably could have for free.
I also shot a chemical engineer who was working on his PhD, which he received with honors, R30. One of the teachers works in Ca; the other in Fl. I'm comfortable saying this much because I also know other teachers in pron, notably Colin O'neill who has been outspoken about how working in pron affected his mainstream career. And then there's Connor Habib.
I'm well aware of the situation with Raging Stallion. They were literally running around turning off lights to try and save on the electric bill, and when they defaulted on the loan payment - err, I'm sure Chris Ward would call it a production advance - AEBN just collected on the assets. Ditto for Falcon. But, they're releasing a movie a week, so they must be doing something right as I'm sure AEBN doesn't want to finance the operation for vanities' sake.
Regarding Cody and Fischer going bareback, the truth of the matter is that bb is the only material that sells. Zach Sire was trying to start a meme that the industry was 70% safe and 30% bb, but it's more like 80/20 bb to condom. Try looking at what's pirated; the yahoo and google groups alone generate 1000's of posts a day, and condom clips are so rare, the default is now bb and posters are told to state if it has condoms in the subject line. Kristen Bjorn just released his first bareback DVD, and William Higgins has also started making bb movies. And of the top 10 titles on AEBN, 8 are bb.
R32 hit the nail on the head regarding performers' issues. This is not news to anyone who's been in the business for more than 5 minutes. It was infuriating to read Michael Lucas' "open letter" to the industry and how Chris Ward was "devastated" by Wilfried Knight's suicide. Both need to step into their bathrooms and take a long hard look in the mirror if they want to see the problems in the industry that are impacting performers. We can all see what's going on with these men, and sometimes you have to say "No, I won't hire you because you don't belong in pron."
So, to bring it back on topic, it's not wrong to care about porn performers; it's just that those who should, don't.
Amateur pron (where guys just set up a camera focused on the bed or couch) is so much more stimulating for me to watch. I guess I have that voyeur fetish (safely accessed through my own computer!).
But there's Fake Amateur and Real Amateur (overwaxed bodies and too-good lighting is a tip-off).
"Porn stars" feel the tragic need to make porno sounds (Ugh! Yeah!). It's even more laughable when they try to be "verbal", and they're no good at it.
[quote] notably Colin O'neill who has been outspoken about how working in pron affected his mainstream career. And then there's Connor Habib.
Connor Habib was never a professor. He was a grad level TA that taught freshman level classes. Colin O'Neill is a joke he's a substitute teacher who milked his firing for a little extra publicity. He will never get a job as a teacher.
[quote]But, they're releasing a movie a week, so they must be doing something right as I'm sure AEBN doesn't want to finance the operation for vanities' sake.
What they are releasing are scenes that are then put together in DVD's that are more or less compilations. DVD's are all but dead.
If they are secondary school teachers they are idiots for doing porn, especially considering that scene rates for hardcore sex are paying maybe a few hundred dollars.
Just the opposite.
It's the pinnacle of hypocrisy to trash porn performers when you love porn.
There's nothing wrong with positive feelings about porn performers. Love is never wasted, and if they make you happy it's only polite to be grateful.
What is wrong, and seriously creepy, is convincing yourself that the porn performers are wonderful happy people with brilliant futures, or any other blurring of fantasy and reality. Don't be that porn troll! That makes you as creepy as a Furry, or the kind of Trekkie who wears a Starfleet uniform to jury duty.
Porn performers are no different from any other performers or public figures n terms of how openly they're exposed to all kinds of criticisms (from wild to vile) from the general public. They are aware of that when they sign in. No need to feel sorry for them. Yes, many of them landed where they are as a result of what some may consider a sad past and need to engage in destructive behavior to keep the business going, but - really - how are they any different in terms of exposure to vicious talk than, say, Lindsey Lohan, Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton, Andy Dick or Sarah Palin?