- Now that the show's wrapped I will reveal that Jeremy Jordan was such a douchebag to the crew in his first few weeks on set that he had to get a slapping down by one of the producers. Not Spielberg, another one who was on set every day and was hearing way too many complaints about him. His attitude did improve but a lot of the crew didn't forget how snotty he was and treated them like underlings. He's the only regular cast member they ever had a problem with. Debra Messing can be a pill and a bitch but she understands the importance of acknowledging the crew and respecting their function on the set.
- Thank you for the dish on the other thread Bellhop and this one! How many eps this season - 13?
- Bellhop, that never happened with Jeremy. I don't think you're making it up, but I know you are wrong, so, I don't know what to say. I can think of one story I heard that matches up with what you're saying, and it was nothing. Without getting into specifics, Jeremy is the last person anyone being honest would single out for attitude or difficulty on set and you know it.
There are 17 episodes this season.
- Actors who are bad with crew don't last five minutes in this business.
- Also, it's not like all the crew is the salt of the earth. You can finish a 15 hour day of filming and get in a van at 4 am to go home, and if you don't chat enough with the Teamster or aren't outgoing enough, you have "attitude."
- OK, NotMarc, maybe he was anxious and frightened his first few weeks. He was thrown in at the deep end, after all. His character was atrociously written and he waa under pressure. But it's a fact that he treated crew members like lackeys at first and a certain producer had to take him aside and tell him there would be a problem if this continued. The problem was dealt with and his behavior improved immeasurably. Smash was a really wonderful set with a sweetheart cast. He stood out like a sore thumb at first and not just because he was a newcomer.
- What I meant to say was, singling out any supposed attitude Jeremy showed in the early weeks of shooting (while he was still performing 8x/week in Newsies, let's remember) as the important bit of bad behavior on set would be like, I don't know, ordering a salad at a steak house -- there's just so much more on that menu you are overlooking.
- Ok then what's the steak??
- These bitches hit it on the head re: the show we hate watch with a passion.
the teamsters who drive set vans do not expect you to make small talk with them after a long day. That is just bullshit. Most of the time the actors put earbuds in or talk quietly to each other.
I don't know anything about bad behavior on your set but if it isn't true then the person who is defaming the actor in question should be ashamed of tarnishing someone's reputation undeservedly.
- Marc, Not-Marc, Maybe-Marc, Never-on-a-Sunday-Marc,
If the show gets renewed. Can you read the "nastiest person on Broadway threads parts 1 2 and 3 and incorporate some of that dish on the show?
How about a brass balled batty bukley type character or a Bacall type character?
I feel like watching SMASH should be more like reading the nastiest person on Broadway threads.
Excellent suggestion. Except for that awful picnic story I loved those threads.
Not Marc, when you are casting r10's suggestion, CALL ME
- Wow, the Winter Fringe Festival sort of looked like it was happening in early October, didn't it?
And rehearsals for the press are never done with full costumes, make-up and wigs. Ever. These people obviously don't watch NY1 Onstage.
- God, Bellhop. Now you're posting petty whining on multiple threads?
- Why, yes, R14, why not? Who gives a shit but you?
- I think after this episode, the only reason to watch Smash from now one is to marvel at the hideous things Anjelica Huston has done to her face.
Liaisons: What's Happened to Them, is not even a hot mess, it's just awful and Hilty is sinking.
McPhee, Jeremy Jordan, and the other Brooklyn hipsters are some of the most unpleasant, unattractive, most annoying characters on tv right now. If this is the future of the Americam Musical theatre, then I advocate for all monies and funds going to performing arts schools, to be rescinded at once.
Bombshell is a hot mess and not even sexy Daniel Sunjata can save it.
- Jeremy j must regret leaving newsies.
- Has Jeremy been farting on the set as much as he used to on Broadway?
- OK, NotMarc, do you at least agree that showrunner Safran was a prick who strutted around set with a sense of entitlement and only spoke directly to the main principals and director? I hope producer/director Michael Morris finds himself a good show after this debacle-he was kind, smart, talented and extremely well-liked by everybody. I hope all Safran can find is an associate producer spot on a Kristin Chenoweth sitcom for ABC Family.
- This is fun. More please.
- I don't understand the nitpicking about wigs and makeup at a press event. I mean, I'm sure police and medical dramas are COMPLETELY unrealistic in every way. Why single out Smash?
- I'm not sure what to say, Bellhop. I am sorry the showrunner did not talk to you enough or make you feel special. Everyone in a television production is under their unique pressures. I do not have an axe to grind. I only chimed in to rebut things I felt should be rebutted, not to share new gossip. I appreciate your (relative) discretion with the big plot developments coming up, as I think spilling them would do a disservice to everyone on the cast and crew and the hard work they put into making a season of television the fans would enjoy.
But again, I just think it's so weird to hear what you have a problem with, knowing everything you're choosing not to mention. It's like someone's dog took a shit on your loafers and you're complaining the owner never told you his name.
- So Ellis was gay after all. And Tom is sexless this season, constantly playing nice to a very annoying and entitled Julia.
- The Jimmy/Karen romance is awful. Too bad the end of the season isn't a murder/suicide with Jimmy killing Karen and then himself. Something fun to look forward to.
- Ok Not Marc and Bellhop, then what's the poo-in-the-shoe?
- Oh Not-Marc you are such tease, telling us Bellhop is all wrong but giving us nothing in return. Sort of like Smash telling us Ivy is all wrong for Bombshell then giving us Karen.
- Sorry, R26. I don't want to spoil the season. I think it really picks up and is something special. The criticism here is just so broad and insistent that I think everyone is geared up to hate-watch it again, even though it is a much better show. To me, last night had great developments and really shook up the playing field. Next week promises to do more of the same. I really liked Derek watching the show at the Fringe last night. I thought it was a great step into the mind of an artist falling in love with a project. When are you ever going to see that on television again? I'll answer little questions if I can but I can't diminish everyone's work by giving away big plot developments, I think that would be mean spirited. Sorry.
- Is anyone else going to mention what is already being mentioned in the media that Jimmy and Karen's relationship is an absuive one? I'm proud of the media (which is usually vapid and doesn't stick its neck out) for calling SMASH out for this.
I think it sets a horrible example to girls that if you love a guy, he can treat you like shit all the time and brainwash you into giving up your dreams.
Shame on SMASH!
- I really do hope that they kill off Jeremy. That is if there was a season 3 which I have a feeling will not happen. Jordan was great on broadway but I cannot stand him on SMASH.
- Firstly. I live the cast and premise of smash and have rooted for it from he beginning. yes, not Marc, the plot advanced, finally, n last nights episode. But plot advancement is no reason to pat the show on its back. The fact is, the execution is weak, I'm a writer. However, last night it occured to me that the only way to salvage the Karen-jimmy relationship would be for her to realize how mpabusive it is. So ts interesting to se r28's post.
The events in last nights ep were too little, too late.
- I know it's too late since the show is heading towards cancellation, but I wish the producers and writers could have gone out with a two hour spectacular BOMBSHELL: the Marilyn musical featuring Megan Hilton (not dead eyes McPhee) as Monroe. At least that way they could have gone out letting fans who have stuck it out see how the 'musical' could have turned out.
I think the fake BOMBSHELL cast album is pretty terrific, I really do.
Not Wes Tay-Tay
- Last night's episode highlighted the problems that Smash has had all along. Whatever is happening now is the story, regardless of what happened before.
Like Tom saying he would direct the show the way he and Julia always envisioned it. Except that Julia has been moping because Tom rejected her brilliant final draft. But forget that, she is now 100% for the draft of the show that everyone previously thought was weak.
And the song that is the first one written for the show, the one that is the very heart of Bombshell, was that even in last season?
- Oh Not Marc, then I guess according to you the set was totally sunshine and lollipops all the time and every single person there was a marvellous human being?
Safran was a shithead. The crew didn't like him because he never remotely exchanged even casual pleasantries with them. Sets are highly social environments and the best ones are those where even the ones on the top rung actually chat and mingle with everybody-because it's the best when it's got a "We're a team, we're all in this together" feel. Spielberg is fantastic at this and that's why you'll never hear a bad word spoken about him.
I've decided that you must work in the production office.
- Ok bellhop, who were the nicest actors to work with?
- Deb Messing and Christan Borle are presenting at the GLAAD Awards as well as Krysta Rodriguez and Andy Mietnus.
No Jeremy Jordan.
So in addition to playing the most annoying character in the history of television, he doesn't even attempt a mea culpa to the gays?
Sally Durant Plummer
- Bellhop, I am not trying to be shitty. But you aren't aware of some very crucial things. If you were, I think your point of view would be different.
- Bellhop and Not Marc, you have to either stop talking to each other on this thread or get a room. If I had wanted to hear empty dialogue between two bitches, I would have bought a ticket to The Anarchist.
- I have a friend who worked a recent theater event with Jordan and also said he was an asshole. And he said people who have worked with Jordan before said he has always been that way.
- Cute people are usually assholes. They are blessed with an attractive face and therefore most things are handed to them on silver platters.
I say this as a cute person. I am an asshole who writes on a bitchy forum like datalounge.
- Bellhop and Not_marc are both more interesting than Jeremy and Dead eyed McPhee,
Kepp on talking?
How was Deb?
I was just watching the Vreeland documentary and Anjelica looked less botoxed there. Did she just mess her face up for the show?
- R37- Marry me. LOL I adore you!
- Part of Huston's problem is they stuck her in that ridiculous dark wig. Looks so much better with her own longer hair.
- Anjelica Huston is a fabulous actress and is the only actor on SMASH who can make the lines work.
Debra Messing tries here and there to have a go with it, but usually even she fails to be convincing with storylines I'm sure she sees as idiotic.
Jeremy Jordan is a horrible actor in a horrible role. How is this a step up from Ellis?
Krysta Rodriguez adds nothing to the show and makes one wonder why the character of Karen didn't move in with DL fave Wesley Taylor who was already a cast member instead?
Katharine McPhee can neither act nor sing all that well. Fitting she would be the lead on a musical series then.
Megan Hilty is sinking in a bad storyline.
I say fire EVERYONE but Hilty, Messing and Huston and have the three of them do a musical with Hilty starring, Messing writing, and Huston producing.
Smash: Zero Emmy Nominee
- I actually think the entire cast is strong,, with the exception of mcphee and Jordan. And Im a huge jeremy jordan fan. I just think that he was miscast and the role is poorly written.
But Tom, Hilty and Angelica all do their best with what theyre given. Messing also has does a good job.
- Smash moves to Saturdays at 9 p.m. beginning April 6 and will air its entire season of 17 episodes.
- Even Jer Jordan doesn't have enough charm with such a badly written character, and have to agree everyone in the cast is good except for Dead eyed McPhee. This will not help Jeremy's Tv/movie career at all. He better hope that the film version of "the Last Five Years" (for which he was cast) is well done.
- SMASH being relegated to graveyard time slot of Saturdays
- I have to say, it is hard to hear the bashing of the actors on SMASH because I think they have had very little support from the writers. The directing on the show is lower that the low average, sloppy shots actors continually shot at disadvantage confused storytelling etc.
Not only that only in the last few episodes did the hair and make up departments realize that people were not looking their best and did something about it.
Actors on television place massive trust in everyone around them and I just think they have been failed. Clearly not intentionally so, but the actors are taking the rap.
Miscasting is not the actors fault either.
- [quote]So in addition to playing the most annoying character in the history of television
- I thought Jeremy Jordan was very funny on SUBMISSIONS ONLY playing a narcissistic actor.
He was charming on that show.
He's a mess on SMASH.
The show, in general, doesn't help the characters
to look their most attractive. . .Hilty, Messing,
- I'm glad it's at least got a time slot that we can see it through, awful as it is.
And I hope for an intelligent article about what went so terribly wrong in Season 2. It makes One look brilliant.
A great concept totally squandered.
- r30 is a writer? Talk about suspension of disbelief.
- I think the dialogue between Bellhop and Not Marc is more entertaining than the show. More please!
- Jeremy Jordan still has a career ahead of him. Luckily, not enough people watched this show to do any permanent damage. Hes usually compellng and has a great voice.
- I think, in the end, America isn't interested in this gay show. NBC thought they got the gays, but readign this thread, it is evident even the gays do not like this show.
Back to cop shows and CSIs - that's what sells, folks!
- Nothing about Christian Borle's massive bulge during the stupid Marilyn song that was redone with all the gay dancers in tight tank tops?
I'll admit I was making sure I didn't look at his face but when he sat on the edge of that table he had massive box. Who knew?
- Middle America doesn't hate the gays, r55. They just hate Smash. Modern Family actually features a gay couple and it's one of the highest rated shows on television, especially in red states.
- Smash moving to Saturday night sometime in April
- I watched Tuesday's episode On Demand right now. As uneven as Smash was last year, it has almost completely derailed this year. Jack Davenport is just mumbling, walking through. That girl Krtysta Rodriquez has nothing to do. Angelica looks beyond hideous in that hairstyle. The "Karen" is a worse actress this season than last. THe juggling three plots is ridiculous.
I say, "almost derailed" because I at least DID like Hilty's song in the "Liasons" piece - I have never seen her onstage, have only seen her in Smash (MY loss!), and didn't realize she had such a great range, high notes, too! SHe is wonderful; the best thing in the show. (though not incredibly telegenic figure-wise, but maybe that's because I/we get too used to seeing skinny-minnies on tv.)
NBC? Spielberg? Both? should hold their collective heads in shame for hiring that Josh Safran piece of shit. I felt like throwing things at my tv. He should be drummed out of the business; he is a talentless fucking piece of shit, hideous and untalented beyond belief and description.
I am glad though that at least NBC will play out the rest of the seasons; I have nothing currently to do on Sat night anyway.
The posters who mentioned one should feel sorry for the actors is absolutely correct.
- Question for anyone here
We all know that they bought the title SMASH from Garson Kanin's novel which was his veiled account of the trials and tribulations of bringing FUNNY GIRL to the stage. Do you think if the writers had been able to use that fictionalized plot (Nora Bayes musical) this show would have been more successful instead of three shows crammed in the plot? Although season one had it's problems, I did think it was much better. I really wish they could show us BOMBSHELL as a two hour finale... the fake cast recording with all the songs is pretty good, in my humble opinion.
- Please, god, not a 2-hour version of BOMBSHELL!
Note to r60: You realize that they don't actually have a book for this fake musical, just some songs and the snippets of dialogue shown on TV?
- So much story and so badly handled. They really needed strong drama writers with a really good Broadway consultant. I don't know that it would have been a bad thing to perhaps have looked for a show runner similar to the runners at Sopranos or Mad Men or Breaking Bad. Someone that knows how to get the story out of character and fill in around the characters with the particulars of the world they inhabit.
- Well most of SMASH audience have nothing to do anythign anyway on Saturday so this may prove to be fortunate for them .
- To answer the previous question about Debra Messing-in general, she's spiky, to say the least. She's had a bad reputation going all the way back to that Woody Allen movie she did many years ago. It helped enormously that Will Chase slipped her his big one early into the first season and she finally got out of an unhappy marriage. She was definitely high maintenance on set, unlike Huston, McPhee and Hilty who most definitely were not. Huston is a class act and Hilty couldn't be nicer. McPhee only got cranky when she was tired and nobody could blame her for that.
Balls in your court, NotMarc.
- Bellhop and NotMarc. Whats the morale like wth the cast and crew now that the reception has been so negative. Was everyone in denial? Or did it have a noticeable affect?
- What was Uma Thurman like? There's been some press stories about her acting outrageously, especially when substances are involved.
- How was Andy and Tay-Tay?
- Does Katherine McPhee know how intensely disliked she is by most of the audience/critics?
- Did Daniel Sunjata and Jesse L Martin have the same trailer (please? for my fantasies?)
- R60 I do realize that. However the album has a synopsis for both acts and how the songs fit to the 'story.' Som if there had been time, they probably could have come up with a libretto.
- If they killed off every horrible character on this show the only ones left would be Ivy and Tom. I sort of like Jerry but probably because you don't see him very often.
- Ivy and Jerry are both horrible, R71. Maybe you have a thing for horrible?
- Are Will and Messing still a couple? Did he forgive her for aborting what would have been his.. what?.. third or fourth child?
- The show is getting shipped off to Saturday nights in a few weeks. It's over, folks.
- In all honesty, the show might do better on Saturdays. The audience skews slightly older, and they may be more interested in a show about the making of a Broadway musical. It also boasts almost zero competition. Rock Center was getting embarrassing numbers in the 10 p.m. Thursday hour, and went up when it was moved to Fridays.
They would have to promote it though...if they have any advertising capital left.
- Vulture recap on last episode.
Not Wes Tay-Tay
- TO the poster upthread who said the show would have been better to have hired a strong showrunner (like the examples given) and also, a Bway consultant: you are so right! That's where NBC/Spielberlg made a grevious error: Rebeck, as a playwright, is certainly an insider, and I like many others here, liked Season One better than this mess that is Season Two, but: I'm a show queen. As are a lot of us on this board. Middle America: maybe 1-2 times a year to go to NY; regional theater in their home towns - MAYBE; some people have kids that want to be actors, other than that?
No one know or cares, by and large, how musicals are made, actors' lives in NYC, etc., etc.
Spielberg was interested; to some extent, I say: good for him. But as many have said, and I agree: this would have been a good miniseries. On cable.
(Was it NBC that had "Fame" years ago? Perhaps trying to recapture the magic...)
- I'm from Middle American and I'd like to see more about how musicals are made and less of the very stupid soapy side plots that flip-flop in a ridiculous inexplicable manner. Most of the characters are such a turnoff that it overshadows the musical part of the show.
- R65, in general the cast and crew didn't have their heads in the sand re: Smash's divebombing. When the first ratings came in after the premiere there was a bit of shock at how badly it had done but it wasn't demoralizing. Michael Morris (producer/director) would openly read Rachel Shukert's hilarious blog at video village and everyone would laugh. It helped that Shukert's skewering did seem to come from a love of the show. There was an overall sense of humor about how it was going. They loved their show, anyway.
- "We're all aware the show is not successful..."
Gee, Josh, ya think?
- Bellhop was either on the crew or has a friend who was.
Not Marc is not only not Marc, he's not anybody.
- I second R80 and would say also, "Gee, Josh - you think YOU were to blame?????"
- I love him saying it just gets better and better.
Odds favor that, given it's just gotten worse and worse. You have to hit bottom sometime. What a tool.
What do we know about this guy?
- R83, you don't wanna know him. He seemingly had no time for anyone who wasn't "important" in his world.
I've spoken to a few colleagues since the announcement and they're really sad about the relegation to Saturdays. But they know this is a brutal business and if it had been on ABC it would have been yanked altogether.
At least Safran is right when he said the finale was shot as s series finale. The final exchange of dialogue between two main characters will bring a lump in the throat to some and others thinking "Damn, good for them, at least they weren't living in a dream world and wrapped it up nicely."
Any more guesses on who gets killed off?
- Hoping Jeremy Jordan gets killed off.
Although it might be Andy M. in a gay bashing incident or late night robbery. Then the show opening of HIT LIST will be dedicated to him.
- If Marc Shaiman, Scott Wittman and Michael Mayer are not Broadway insiders who could presumably advise and guide the show with their own experiences about the making of a Broadway musical, I don't know who could.
Debra Messing is indeed an entitled bitch. I worked with her years ago between her stints on Ned and Stacey and Will and Grace and even then she was unpleasant.
If Jeremy Jordan had nothing but that atrocious haircut to blame for his misbehavior, it would be forgiveable IMHO.
I can't bear Jack Davenport! If he was ever attractive, he isn't any more.
I can feel Christian Borle's complete disillusionment with the series in his every scene.
Lastly, we may all hate Anjelica Huston's hairdo (or wig) but you are all amateurs if you think someone like her could be pushed into wearing it that way without her total approval, if not encouragement.
Oh, and also, a title cannot be copywrighted so SMASH owed nothing to the Garson Kanin estate.
The Ghost of Ruth Gordon
- GRG, Davenport totally phones in his performances. He realized early on that his character was one-dimensional and so he wasn't going to work too hard to make him any more than that. He does have a great moment in the series finale at the Tony Awards. It includes a British expletive. And as I wrote in the other thread the show was shot totally out of sequence so he could be the one who ends up dead.
- [quote]I think after this episode, the only reason to watch Smash from now one is to marvel at the hideous things Anjelica Huston has done to her face.
She looks so harsh and tranny-ish, she looks like a man. The hairdo doesn't help either.
- Is Michael Mayer actualy the Michael Morrison mistakenly referred to in a couple of earlier posts?
- I can imagine Davenport opening his scripts with all the sneering contempt with which he portrays Derek.
Must be unpleasant to be on a sinking ship.
- No, R89, Michael Morris was Michael Mayer's replacement. Morris directed some episodes the first season and when Safran came on he dumped Mayer and installed Morris as the line producer as well as the director for most episodes. Morris was apparently not comfortable about how this was handled because he liked and respected Mayer. Morris is a genuinely nice, talented guy who had all these problems suddenly thrust upon him. He was also required to be the show's timekeeper, making sure they wouldn't shoot past a particular number of hours per day, usually it was 12. And, sorry, 10 or 11 hours a day was not enough time to shoot what they needed. It was a fucking musical, for Chrissakes. And each episode only had an 8 day shooting schedule and a lot of it was location work, unlike Glee which is 95% soundstage.
- Bellhop, was Michael Mayer well-liked?
Knowing him, I would bet liked by the actors and reviled by the crew.
- They modeled Angelica Houston off of Nina Lannan, poorly
- How well do you know Michael Mayer, R92?
- Now that the series will likely be canceled, what's up next for Wes Tay-Tay?
- Yes, he was well-liked by the crew, R92. I think they may have preferred Michael Morris, though. In the first season Mayer was tight with both Rebeck and David Marshall Grant, who were at odds over how to write the show. Mayer was caught in the crossfire a lot. He's now on the primetime soap pilot The Hatfields and the McCoys shooting up in Boston. Charlize Theron is one of the producers.
- Something valid which was brought up on set by one of the producers (not Morris) but ignored by Safran was that Derek was never believable as a choreographer and now TOM was going to choreograph Bombshell, too? That's ludicrous. The show had an opportunity to add a fun, possibly devious new character as the choreographer and Safran didn't take advantage of the opportunity.
- online petition to save SMASH.
- Yeah, good luck with that.
- I am watching the show for the first time since I bailed during the Season 2 premiere, but without a doubt Jeremy Jordan comes across as a spoiled entitled child. He looks short and appears to be the very definition of "Stage Hot."
OMG now they are doing a number with Jeremy Jordan walking in front of a screen - it is reminiscent of Frank Ocean's disastrous Grammy production number.
- God, what a shit show this has become. It's not even worth hate watching any more.
- They should have made a musical out of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?
- When is the final episode? This show has become so tiresome I don't think I can watch anymore. But I would like to see how they end it.
- It airs in late May, R104.
Didn't you all love it that Derek allowed his choreography to stay in Bombshell even after he'd quit? Yeah, like that would ever happen. And Karen bowing out of her first lead in a Broadway show because she "hadn't been feeling right?" Sure, I'd believe that. And Derek took Jimmy and Kyle to Ivy's opening night because...why? And Tom took Karen to Ivy's opening night because...why?
And Daniel Sunjata is dramaturging in London, never to be seen again.
But bring on Bernadette as Marilyn's mama!
- I'm sorta beginning to doubt now that Jimmy will be the one to die a la Jonathan Larson since that would be too much like "Rent," which they've mentioned by name a couple of times when talking about "Hit List." Would probably be seen as too much of a coincidence to be believed (though for this show, maybe not so much).
That said, would still love to see Jimmy trip and fall in front of an A train asap (the character, of course, not Jeremy Jordan). He's a sulky, ungrateful bitch and a total drag on this show.
- Everything you listed r105 was mindbogglingly preposterous. "I'm leaving a STARRING BROADWAY ROLE even though I have never been in any show ever anywhere!" was just laugh out loud absurdity. Derek was a choreographer? Like Fosse? HAHAHHA oh my sides.
The one thing I'll give them is they accidentally seemed to have happened on a solution to McPhee's horribleness by taking her out of the Broadway jandra and putting her in pop which she can at least comfortably fake.
Otherwise, who cares.
JUST FUCKING KILL IT ALREADY.
- New York Daily News, March 20.
Show queens are sniping that the spotlight- and self-obsessed star who Sean Hayes plays in “Smash” is a veiled version of Broadway favorite Nathan Lane.
If you’re not one of the very few who tune in to NBC’s soap about New York’s musical-theater scene, Hayes has been acting up as Terry Falls, an insecure and clueless performer. Terry’s unaware he’s in a drama, not a comedy, and can’t let anyone get more attention than him.
Do those signs point to Lane? “Oh my God, that’s ridiculous. That’s not Nathan,” Cady Huffman tells The News’ theater critic, Joe Dziemianowicz.
The actress speaks with authority. She’s now co-starring with Lane in the Douglas Carter Beane burlesque dramedy “The Nance,” starting previews on Broadway this week. Lane and Huffman each won a Tony for the musical “The Producers” in 2001.
Huffman, a faithful “Smash” watcher, adds, “If that’s supposed to be Nathan, it’s by someone who doesn’t know him. Nathan knows exactly what his characters are going through — though there are some actors who have needed help.”
- Oy, so now Cady is an authority on Broadway?
The Food Network
- The Hayes character is manic. Nathan Lane hasn't even smiled since 1977.
- [quote]would still love to see Jimmy trip and fall in front of an A train asap (the character, of course, not Jeremy Jordan). He's a sulky, ungrateful bitch and a total drag on this show.
Agree! He is awful and such a bitch on this show. Jeremy, who insisted on a special curtain call Newsies costume, has dragged this show further down the drain.
- At least they got it right getting Megan back as the lead for BOMBSHELL. McPhee looked like Marilyn in drag.
- Was that Seth Rudetsky playing himself?
- yes r113
- No, R113, that was Meryl Streep as Rudetsky. If you watched in HD, you would have noticed the edge of her lace front.
- I also love that the show spent several episodes telling us Sean Hayes was ruining the show by playing it as farce only have them "save it" by turning it into exactly that. And of course the entire chorus is able to perfectly choreograph a silly number right before the curtain goes up.
- Coming Up on "Smash" ......
The Bells and Whistles - Tuesday, March 26
Tom ends up in an awkward situation when Ivy brings Sam back to town; Jimmy and Derek's visions clash; Karen and Ana try to stand up for what they want.
The Parents - Tuesday, April 2
When Ivy's mother joins the cast of ''Bombshell,'' Tom must diffuse the tension between them; Ana's newfound success and a surprise visitor threaten Karen and Jimmy's connection; information about Jimmy's past is revealed.
The Surpise Party - Saturday, April 6
With Liza Minnelli's help, Tom plans a surprise for Ivy; as rehearsals for ''Hit List'' comes to a close, tensions between Jimmy, Karen and Derek explode; Richard asks Eileen to spend more time with him.
- How many times last night did they insist that Karen was a star? Based on what? Her one facial expression and stilted line readings McPhee was a casting misfire, but it would be less noticeable if the show didn't act like she was the second coming.
- Yes, they absolutely needed a quirky one-of-a-kind STAR in that role. A young Streisand or Bernadette. They really shot themselves in the foot with McPhee.
- I hated the song from "hit List" and Jesse L Martin thought the show would be too edgy for older subscribers? That show?
- Seth Rudetsky: A face that's made for radio; a voice that's made for newspapers.
Do we ever speculate here about Jesse's sexuality?
- I loved Sean Haye's big musical number from Liaisons. He sang well. Quelle surprise - Ivy made a suggestion and 40 minutes later a fully choreographed revision was onstage resplendent with ascending flowered swings.
Oh well, it was still a good number. I was hoping Sean got at least one good number and that's all he got!
Sorry about that falling off the swing thing....
- R121- jesse gay.
- Are we also speculating about Seth's sexuality?
- There was really no reason Tom couldn't have brought Julia to see Liasons at least to have Debra Messing and Sean Hayes in one scene together.
First you're another sloe-eyed vamp, then someone's mother...
- Is Daniel Sunjata ever returning from the Royal Court? Why did they bother introducing his ridciulous character (a drop-dead-sexy dramaturg on a Broadway musical?!?) only to send him packing with no plot devlopment 2 episodes later?
Totally emblematic of the problems with this show....both seasons, if you ask me.
- I kept wondering why Sunjata looked so different, then realized it was Jesse L. who's not lookin' too good.
- No, R127, Sunjata is never returning from the Royal Court-he apparently moved over to the Royal National Theatre over in London town when they were in desperate need of dramaturging. And after that Kevin Spacey wanted him over at the Old Vic because...YOU KNOW.
Another example of these writer's incompetence-at one point in rehearsal on last night's show Wes Tay-Tay says to little blonde Savannah dancer "Did Tom just give Karen a LINE READING?" Now normally this is a huge no-no for any director to do and any performer who is subjected to this would have the right to tell them to go fuck themselves. But it's KAREN who is so ignorant and inexperienced she doesn't even recognize it as a bad thing! If Tom tried that shit with Lee Conroy (Bernadette Peters) there would be hell to pay.
- Is it true that Jesse is replacing Lenny Kravitz in the Marvin Gay(e) biopic?
- Is Luke M playing Ivy's BF?
- Pardon my ignorance, but why is it bad form for a director to give an actor a line reading? That confused me.
- Actually, line readings are given all the time in some Broadway rehearsals.
- [quote]There was really no reason Tom couldn't have brought Julia to see Liasons at least to have Debra Messing and Sean Hayes in one scene together.
What? And wreck the awfulness? That would have been cool. "SMASH" is not cool.
- Trouble is, r126, Bernadette still thinks she's a sloe-eyed vamp.
- Are McPhee and one of the Producers having an affair? I can't think of any other reason why the show has weekly scenes where someone says how amazing she is, what a big star, or she gets a Standing O after she sings. They don't do that for anyone else on the show.
- R133/Joe Mantello, uhhh...no they don't.
Giving line readings to actors on film sets and in rehearsal halls is considered a huge infringement on the actors' ability to create. I've personally seen actors blow a gasket when given line readings. It's one of the cardinal rules when dealing with actors-Thou Shalt Not Give Line Readings. Clever directors find other ways to get the line reading they want without telling them how they should say it.
- Any updates on Jeremy Jordan's farting habit?
- R138, the scuttlebutt (pardon my pun) is that his months-old marriage is in trouble already because of it. Especially due to his penchant for "dutch oven action."
- Beloved fellow "Smash" watchers, I am sorry to sound so dense, but in a "preview" upthread (thanks!), it mentions, "RIchard wants Eileen to spend more time with him." Sorry - who is Richard?
- Someone we haven't met yet
- This season is making the first look like creative perfection in every respect.
- Richard is a new character played by Jamie Sheridan. He's only in a few episodes. Yawn.
- I am not looking forward to all the Ivy Bernadette Mama drama. What a dull diversion. Tom fawns. Ivy suffers. Bernadette clings on. This show is a recipe for how to hurtle towards failure.
- Can someone tell me what 'jandra' is at R107? I've seen that word a few times now, and I don't know if that's a DL-ism or a misspelling of 'genre' or what?
- jandra goes back to the beginning of American Idol. The threads on here were hysterical. Some idiot spoke about Bo Bice (or whatever the fuck his name was) singing out of his jandra.
A meme was born!
- Thank you, R143/Bellhop. Jamie Sheridan, hmmm? Good actor; rather stolid - don't immediately picture him in a showbiz story - OTOH, he's done well by NBC (L&O:CI). Should be interesting.
THe former R140
- I was thinking today and I think I figured out why this season seems duller than last: there is no villain. At least last year we got a campy one: Ellis. This year the closest thing we have is Jer Jordan.
- Thank you, R146.
- [quote]This season is making the first look like creative perfection in every respect.
So true, R142. It's even made me wonder if we all owe Ms. Rebeck an apology. Great TV it wasn't but at least she made the first season watchable.
A question for Bellhop: when Rebeck was dismissed, why didn't they turn the show over to David Marshall Grant? He did a pretty good job helping to run the show over at "Brothers & Sisters" and, of course, he's a longtime member of New York's theater community, so you'd think he'd have been the ideal choice to take over for Rebeck instead of Safran. Any clues what happened there? Was he even considered for the gig?
- R150, I don't know why they didn't turn to Grant as the showrunner. Spielberg liked Michael Morris a lot from the first season and wanted to promote him to an associate producer/director position, effectively replacing Michael Mayer.. I have yet to understand why Safran was even considered. His pitch must have been mighty compelling.
I'm really pissed that at the conclusion of last Tuesday's episode that there was no "In memory of..." for James Pollard, the veteran key grip, who died the day after the exterior scenes following Liaisons opening night were filmed back in November. I blame Safran for that, he could have pushed that through. At least the show was shut down the following Monday so everybody could attend his memorial service. Anjelica Huston and Katharine McPhee attended along with most of the crew.
- Thanks, Bellhop. Love your insights into the show.
- You're welcome, R152.
And here's as good an explanation as any why directors should not give line readings to actors...
- Thanks for the link Bellhop.
Any goss on Katharine McPhee? is she actually as bad as her detractors make out or is she just unable to elevate the material/crappy role?
And was it common knowledge that Spielberg wanted Hilty recast? Was there much reaction from that Buzzfeed article about what went wrong on set? How accurate was that?
- "[R138], the scuttlebutt (pardon my pun) is that his months-old marriage is in trouble already because of it. Especially due to his penchant for "dutch oven action.""
Are you joking or being serious, Bellhop?
- Bellhop: Can you please confirm which Episode will have Luke Macfarlane? Can't find this info anywhere!!
- R154, Katharine McPhee always arrived on set prepared and ready to work. She never had a problem with learning her lines and was a consummate pro. However she simply has no natural ability as an actress and the scripts were never any help. As for the rumor about Spielberg wanting to recast Ivy after the pilot as described in that Vulture piece-no, neither issue was openly addressed on set to the best of my knowledge. Michael Morris, being British and possessing a sense of humor, absolutely loved Rachel Shukert's Smash recap blog and would read bits of it out loud at video village.
R156 I'm pretty sure Luke McFarlane's first episode is #214, the 14th of the season. He plays a movie actor who may or may not be gay. He also appears in the series finale-he shows up at the Tony Awards and he's so adorable in a tux that after just one glance you will want to swallow poison because there will be nothing else to live for.
- Thanks, for the Luke Update Bellhop/R157, Can't wait!!!!!!!!1
- Not surprised Cousin Deb has landed a pilot-and this one is being co-produced by two Smash producers, too.
- Today i am Hate watching the new Episode : The Bells and Whistles....
- According to the Daily News today, Kat McPhee is trying to distance herself from Smash and refuses to talk about the show in any interview.
- Why am I not surprised by that? But I can't blame her. Girl needs to move on like Cousin Deb has done.
To answer an earlier poster's question Jesse L. Martin does not sing a note during his character's multi-episode arc. Which is, of course, a waste. Kinda reminds one of Brian D'Arcy James (he played Cousin Deb's hubby) and what a monumental waste it was only having him sing a snippet of something once. By the way, he will reappear towards the end of the series in May but I'll say no more lest the Spoiler Hall Monitor calls me out on that shit.
- Is Dead-eye McPhee unhappy about her character's fate in the show towards the finale, bellhop?
- Not going there, R163--hee hee. You'll just have to tune in.
- I tried, Bellhop :-)
Megan Hilty did say that Team Ivy would be happy with the finale, so that's good enough for me :)
- Bellhop- Does Luke get to sing in Smash? He is a pretty good singer right!
- Cute, R165! Actually who am I trying to kid? Of course both Karen and Ivy survive until the final frame. You think either one would be killed off? No way. And as for Team Ivy being happy with the finale? Sure, go with that. Absolutely.
- Well, Megan Hilty said it herself on WWHL. :=)
- God, could Tom and Ivy be any more annoying in victory?
Who wrote this shit? And I mean shit. It just gets worse and worse and worse and worse.
- This show is so fucking awful.
- Oh great, now we get weeks of Ivy's mommy issues.
- And next week the episode is largely Jimmy getting chased by a drug dealer hipster! So enticing!
I remember everybody thinking why the fuck does Tom need to spread out the script to try to find a slot for Sam in Bombshell. Shouldn't he know the fucking show backwards and forwards in his head already? And what role in Book of Mormon is considered a lead for Sam to play, anyway? There isn't one. The two leading roles are caucasian and the best role in it for an African-American is a female. And he's too young and lightweight to play the warlord. But the writers never concern themselves with such pesky details.
And Lea Michele? Well, she's an even bigger cunt than Cousin Deb so I'm not unhappy she'll be pissed at the way her name was dropped.
- I could have told him there was no place for Sam and I ff through most of this piece of shit.
What a remarkable, yet mundane, creative implosion.
Safran should never work again. At least in entertainment.
- R166, no, unfortunately Luke doesn't get to sing a note.
- Thanks for some discretion, Bellhop.
God, did you like anything about this season? You're so negative.
- I liked Odom Jrs number. So much fun.
- R173, I love you beyond belief and description! You are absolutely right about Safran. That is the most idiotic excuse for a showrunner I have come across in 40+years of TV viewing. Incompetent off the charts. Pa-fucking-thetic. What was WRONG with whomever hired him???
Hate-watching till the bitter end
- Next week's episode looks like a love letter to the hate watchers.
- Jeremy Jordan likes to 'dutch oven' and it is wrecking his marriage. What is that?
Hate him on this show.. hate that entire plot line. No wonder this show has failed.
- True what they say about McPhee... look at her eyes, nothing there.
- What are you talking about R180? She's a BRILLIANT star. We're told this quite often. Haven't you been listening to the dialogue?
- I was dead wrong-it is actually possible for this show to get more boring
- Hello Book of Mormon tour, Im not coming back
- Is it me or the writters decided to make Tom super Annoying!! did I read in here Luke will probably play his new Love? Oh well confused with SMash
- I disagree about McPhee. She's as good as most actresses on TV. I think she's very pretty but cursed from an expression point of view by having big brown eyes surrounded by big brown hair and a soft voice. Is she new to it? Obviously. But I don't see her as the disaster so many haters do.
I get tired of Ivy's fierce mugging and smiling and grinning and bridling (I don't know if it's the actress or how she's playing Ivy but I'm sick of the Miss Georgia routine.)
I rewatched the pilot and some season 1 episodes last weekend... I found McPhee really likeable. Even the best actress couldn't make much of this season, so a novice like McPhee must be stumped.
Above all this show has been cursed by terrible, terrible structure and writing.
- Oh, Not Marc, you're becoming tiresome. (giggles) AGAIN. (rolls eyes)
Here's the wonderful Annoying Actor Friend's recap...
- Bellhop rumor is season 2 revisits couch scene between Derek and Karen. Is it true?
- I've been a big McPhee critic too but she's beginning to grow on me gradually and I find how she plays Karen very appealing and sweet, she's just so NICE and I guess that's a turn-off to some people, but I love that quality about her now. I'm glad she finally got what she wanted (Jimmy - that was a great ending shot). But it sounds like McPhee is sick of the show now that I finally like her.
Sick of all the bickering and wish they'd just get the show together.
Jesse L. Martin is hot.
- R187, I'm pretty sure they don't, it's Karen and Jimmy from now until the end.
- It's a shame that Smash is being canceled. I will just watch the last remaining episodes and then buy the DVD.
- Bellhop: Who will be playing Ivy's love interest? i don't want Ivy to go running back to Derek!!
- Thanks for reply Bellhop, though I'm really bummed Derek and Karen don't get together. Its a waste of chemistry. I can't believe we won't even be getting a kiss.
- Bellhop is being coy. It's not quite over for Derek and Karen.
R184 the next few episodes definitely explore what happens when a man like Tom, who has been the nice creative guy on the sidelines, has to be in charge. So you will see a different side of him. I think it's very interesting.
I hope you guys like something about the next episodes. And thanks for not outright spoiling, Bellhop.
- Who is fucking Wes Tay-Tay?
Why did Tyler Maynard, the pickpocket of B*R*O*A*D*W*A*Y have his tongue down SMASH dancer Savannah Wise's throat outside Becco last year? Was he trying to steal her phone while engaging her in a 'kiss?'
Jessie Mueller's fur wrap and I phone at Tyler Maynard's apt.
- Coy? Moi? Never. Thanks for not shitting on me altogether, Not Marc.
OK, besides a death there will be a pregnancy in upcoming episodes. And Cousin Deb is going to have a not terribly warm and fuzzy reunion with Unfrozen Caveman Husband.
- R193, this show was spoiled long ago by the writers and directors. Does anyone really care what happens next?
- I care what happens next! Though, for the love of Cousin Debbbie, I don't know why. But I appreciate the behind-the-scenes scoop, Bellhop and Not Marc -- particularly that you're not outright spoiling anything!
- And I promise I won't. I'm angry that this show's potential was squandered by bad writing (Rebeck), some bad casting and a bad choice of Season 2 showrunner (Safran). I don't want to sabotage it by leaking massive spoiler details, though.
- Just tell us if Karen and Derek are endgame or not. At this point, it's all that matters anyway
- I was angry at how they fucked it up too.
But it's gotten so bad I couldn't care less. I now watch just to see how bad it gets. And this thing is moving inexorably to epic bad. It's been downhill almost week over week.
- I'm guessing the death will be Kyle. He's been pretty useless on the show anyways.
Bellhop, which main actors do you think had the best chemistry on set?
- R201, do you mean chemistry as friends? Everyone in the cast seemed to get along well with each other, there was never a problem at all between actors, ever. Cousin Deb and Christian Borle were actually cute together a lot of the time, they seemed to genuinely enjoy being around each other.
- As friends and in terms of acting.
Any really good musical performances coming up in Smash? Something along the lines of Let Me Be Your Star or Don't Forget me?
Also are Jimmy and Karen really endgame? That is so disappointing. I was hoping for Karen and Derek to end up together because they seem to have much better chemistry.
- Do Daisy (played by Mara Davi) and Derek get together by the end of the season? There were pictures of them filming together in Tony Awards attire.
- R203 there isn't a ton of new Bombshell stuff coming, but, you'll get to see the slick Broadway version of it once it opens, which I think the fans will enjoy.
A lot more Hit List numbers are coming, and a couple of them are pretty spectacular, but they are more of the same, in the pop vein -- very different from Bombshell, so, they may not be everyone's cup of tea. I enjoyed them, but I also enjoyed Bombshell (this season more than last).
There are more developments in store for Karen and Derek.
- Bellhop, did you ever see Spielberg on set? How involved was he with the show?
And just for fun - which cast member was the goofiest on set?
- But the other one said it's all about Karen and Jimmy from now until the end...
I didn't care that much about Karen and Derek last year, but tbh... I don't want see Smash getting cancelled before a kiss between them.
- Steven only came to set once this season, I believe.
Krysta and Andy were very playful. I would throw Kat in there too. There's a guest star who hasn't appeared yet who was very fun and really went for it. I found Jeremy very normal and relatable.
- Not Marc, thanks for the responses. How much of the Broadway version of Bombshell will we get to see? Will it be in bits in pieces like what we saw in the Workshop episode or the Finale last season?
I'm looking forward to seeing more from Hit List. I loved seeing the staging for Heart Shaped Wreckage on that bridge with the NY background and the choreography in I Heard Your Voice In A Dream was spectacular. Hope to see more of that - the singers and dancers are all so talented on this show!
- You will get to see a good deal from both sides of the proscenium. Not just songs, but book scenes as well. There isn't time or money to do long chunks of the show, but I think it's still rewarding.
- I really liked the Diva number from Hit List. Krysta Rodriquez was outstanding.
- Nice try re: Jeremy, Not Marc. He was a douchebag to the crew his first few weeks and got slapped down by production and told to shape up. From then on he was fine but they never forgot that, trust me.
Daisy ends up in a very surprising position by the series finale via Derek-and I don't mean doggie style. She's got her eye on the prize.
Goofiest cast member was definitely Christian Borle but always in a sweet, charming way.
Spielberg was on set once back in January. He later paid a visit to the set of The Wolf of Wall Street to hang with Scorsese and DiCaprio.
Karen and Jimmy are endgame but there are a few yawn-inducing twists along the way.
- I never thought Bernadette was a great actress but man she can still act and cry her way through a song like no one else. Hang the Moon was the highlight of tonite's episode.
I still have a problem with Ivy as Marilyn. It's her face. Pretty girl but I just don't see MARILYN. Karen had Marilyn's vulnerability and fragility. I don't get that from Ivy.
Oh, and I LOVED the way they staged that production # for Hit List in a few hours. Costumes, acrobats... normally that would take weeks to rehearse! Derek is a genius.
- I actually liked something from Bernadette Peters for the first time ever. That was a lovely number.
- The plot still sucks but the numbers were great tonight. Bernadette Peters was excellent and looks incredible for 60 or whatever age she is.
- I believe she just turned 65.
How dare Leigh win a Tony for Anything Goes when the amazing Patti Lupone didn't!
- The liked almost everything in tonight's show. It's actually gettings to the point of not caring about Bellhop's comments. I thought bringing Bernadette Peters back was a big mistake. I was very wrong!
- Do Karen and Derek at least end the season as friends? If they can't be endgame I at least still want them to be friends and respecting each other :(
- The haters go so OTT with this kat mcphee dead eyes crap! She's a perfectly decent actress and given the crap plots and lines she gets, with little or no character development, she does a good a job as is allowed, especially considering Karen, by her nature is pretty placid!
- I have to ask not Marc and Bellyhop ..... one of the few things the smash fans seem to care about this season is cartwills and karen and Derek ending up together. i mean you just need to read the recaps comments or all the YouTube comments and likes etc to see this. At no point was it ever discussed that maybe the writers should pursue this? And I know they are with derek obviously liking Karen, but it seems like it'll end up being nothing. Surely by the series finale filming and rewriting the last ep etc, it was already obvious that jimmy was not a popular character and people are overwhelmingly in favor of cartwills over karen and jimmy. I know showrunners shouldn't just listen to the more rabid fans, lol, but in this case it's kinda overwhelming that people just want karen and Derek together.
- I don't know anything about writing a show so I'm sure Safran had his reasons for going with Karen and Jimmy. But I think now that you've made it clear Derek and Karen hope is lost, people will stop watching all together. So sad.
- I hope that's not true, R221. There's a lot of fun stuff along the way to the series finale. Someone in the final episode will give a very moving, simple speech about the power of theater. And it will all end in a very satisfying musical number with an adorable "button" at the very end. Please stick with it.
And yeah, in the meantime blame Safran on Karen and Jimmy. His dirty little Gossip Girl mitts were all over that decision. Why Spielberg approved him as the Season 2 showrunner over so many far worthier candidates will remain a mystery forever.
- I actually thought last night's episode was pretty boring, saved only by those two absolutely glorious musical numbers (Peters should win an Emmy just for that scene alone).
- Bellhop, to echo what poster 218 asked, if Karen and Derek don't end up together, will they still end the season/series with a strong personal relationship, even if its not romantic?
And what does 'adorable "button"' mean? Lol
- Well if we're stuck with jimmy and Karen together please tell me jimmy improves from here until the end? Personality transplant would be best
- Karen and Jimmy endgame?
I'm done here.
- For a couple of straight boys, Christian Borle and Jack Davenport have good chemistry.
- Will they still be releasing the songs to iTunes now smash has moved to Saturdays? Hope so!
- Is it true that Megan Hilty and Kat McPhee are really good friends irl? They always say they are, but you never know with these things. Actually don't answer if they're not. It'd make me sad, lol! Also I've heard kat mcphee and jack davenport have great chem irl too - is this something that was obvious on set? I'm not suggesting they were having a hot affair or anything haha!
- [quote]I never thought Bernadette was a great actress but man she can still act and cry her way through a song like no one else.
She saw her neck and face in high definition.
- I've read McPhee and Davenport were pretty flirtatious on set. Any truth to that?
- So Bellhop and Not Marc (and anybody else who was on set): What is Davenport like in real life/on set?
- Was it just me or did the previews on last night's Smash show scenes I'd never seen before? Maybe I missed an episode?
- I'm sorry Smash will be canceled, but it definitely was a failure of writing rather than concept or cast. This season has been so intolerably plot driven when it should have focused on characters and relationships. If showrunner had let Bombshell open on Broadway in the first couple, three episodes, we could have focused on the actual lives and interactions of these characters with Broadway background. I know they probably wanted to steer clear of that after the Cousin Deb family fiasco last year, but they threw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because her son was horrific and the adoption story a dud doesn't mean we automatically hate backstory -- just bad story. There really is a lot of good chemistry among actors and it should have been seized upon. Derrick and Karen, Derrick and Tom, Tom and Julia, and Ivy with all the above as well. So much missed potential with this show. S1 definitely needed some re-direction, but they re-tooled the charm completely out of it.
And as a complete aside, even tho Jimmy character is a belligerent idiot, I'd pay to see Hit List over Bombshell. Songs are amazing.
- [quote]Oh, and I LOVED the way they staged that production # for Hit List in a few hours. Costumes, acrobats... normally that would take weeks to rehearse! Derek is a genius.
I agree. That was SO ridiculous. Were they in a church or something? Why would they spend all the money to create some Cirque du SoGay staging at one-night only event? And one that was trying to raise money, for heaven's sake! They probably spent more money staging that than they ever could have raised.
- [quote]one of the few things the smash fans seem to care about this season is cartwills and karen and Derek ending up together. i mean you just need to read the recaps comments or all the YouTube comments and likes etc to see this. At no point was it ever discussed that maybe the writers should pursue this?
I think it's pretty clear that a love triangle has been cooking all season. A lot of people think Derek and Ivy are a better match. She's more of an adult and can challenge him more in the places he is weak. To me, Ivy is the woman Derek needs.
[quote]What is Davenport like in real life/on set?
Chatty, lots of stories, works very hard at every scene even when he knows it has problems. Often improvises to make things smoother or funnier, very good at it too.
[quote]Bellhop, to echo what poster 218 asked, if Karen and Derek don't end up together, will they still end the season/series with a strong personal relationship, even if its not romantic?
I would say everyone ends the season fulfilled, close, full of respect for one another at their best. It's uplifting.
- The music for Hit List is so much better than the music for Bombshell, if they'd started with Hit List, they might be having a third season.
- I stopped watching Smash a couple of months ago. Is there a reason to come back, such as nudity?
- R238 You realize this is on NBC, right?
- Guysh, I am on Shhaturday night.. Come shhheee me in SHHMASSH!
Lizsha with a Zsheee
- When you say "a lot of people think Derek and Ivy are a better match" I'd love to know who all these people are? Lol. Look, I'm ok with Karen and Derek not being endgame if its not meant to be, but to have it be Derek and Ivy seems ridiculous. They have a great friendship that seems nothing more than that. It seems like the showrunners and writers are totally on another page to the viewing public when it comes to the relationships on this show.
- The problem with this show is it doesn't go "there" you know what I mean.
Why not have Bernadette and Liza duet? epic failure. Its like having Sean Hayes on and NO reunion scene with Debra Messing.
- "to be endgame": what a weird bit of phrasing.
- "A lot of people think Derek and Ivy are a better match"
Not that much, actually.
I do agree they would make a better match,
but the lack of chemistry is frustating. I think it's the same situation happening between Karen and Jimmy. Their scenes together are... boring. And the show kinda has to keep reminding us how amazing they are or how sizzling their chemistry is, which we all know it is not the truth.
I don't know what happens on set, but somehow, McPhee's best scenes are the ones she's with Jack. They work well together.
As Slezak would say, "if McPhee and Jeremy Jordan exhibited any less chemisty in that scene, I think the universe might have created a spontaneous tornado to lift Jack Davenport into the sky, drop him into the middle of the set, and flash a little of that natural Derek-Karen heat that I didn’t even realize I’d been missing"
- [R236] So by your comments are you saying Derek and Ivy are end game?
- I'm a bit surprised to see all the love for Hit List on here. I've hated the songs and the choreography last week was awful. Even my mother laughed at it. Last night's acrobatic act looked like a PINK! Concert.
I do like many of the Bombshell songs, however. Are the HitList songs selling well on iTunes?
- Agreed about the HIT LIST songs. Generic and untheatrical. Everything I hate about this current (and already failed) crop of off-Broadway writers.
- Shockwave Flash has crashed.
What to do? What to do??
- The Hit List songs this year are actually selling a lot better than most of last season's Bombshell songs, and that's with a lot lower ratings. Generally Kat McPhee's songs seem to sell the best, which I guess makes sense as her voice is more likely to appeal more to the general viewer. Don't Forget Me is the biggest seller of all, Touch Me is the biggest selling cover song, and that was released months after the airdate, and Broadway Here I Come is the biggest selling Hit List Song. I think McPhee's 'Run' have would probably sold the most of all if TPTB had actually bothered to sell it!! It by far has the most youtube views of any Smash song - well ver a million combined.
- loling at Not Marc saying that Ivy is more adult. Because of course her season 1 behavior backs that up!
- Derek and Ivy end up together? Oh ok! No wonder this show is where it's ended up :( I just ask for things to be realistic. You do remember what a complete arsehole Derek was to Ivy in s1 right, and how he treated her with no respect? That's where Karen and Derek work - he treats her with the respect he lacks with others. Plus Karen and Derek have a chemistry which Ivy and Derek just don't. Not Marc, i think you're gonna have some pretty unhappy people after the finale!
- Derek and Ivy are a better match? You keep telling yourself that Not Marc if it makes you feel better lol! Even if Karen and Derek don't end the show together which it doesn't seem them will ...... IVY AND DEREK?!!!! WTF
- So let me get this straight: there are people in this thread who are actually invested enough in SMASH's romantic storylines that they're arguing about who Karen should end up with?
I don't think I'm watching the same show as these people.
- There's no arguing. Karen should end up with Derek, and that's it. Lol.
(btw Derek and Ivy?! Are you kidding me, right?)
- I'm sorry, am I living in some parallel universe where DL is suddenly fangurlish for this piece of shit?!
Cunts, please. This show continues its seemingly eternal slide into oblivion. Will it EVER end? One wonders. One hopes.
Last night was so awful I don't even know where to begin. Shit List? Gimme a fucking break. What the fuck was that talent free, voice-less "actress" who plays alcoholic roommate Ana (diva my ASS) doing up there wrapped in those sheets? She looked awkward and miserably uncomfortable, like she'd failed her basic gymnastics class. Was that supposed to be "cutting edge"? LOfuckingL.
And don't get me started on Jimmy's absurd drug dealer. My coke dealer is better dressed, better behaved, and more businesslike than 99% of the people I know. This show traffics is so many embarrassing cliches it's pathetic.
And what a wasted opportunity with Bernadette who had the BERNADETTE turned up to level 12. THAT's the song Marc comes up with ??! Really? When she's clearly game to do any crap you put in front of her? SIIIIGGGHHH.
Although it's obviously too late, I cannot believe there wasn't one producer or director that could point out to "Jack" that if he crossed his arms one more fucking time he'd be punched in the face by the rest of the cast. He just radiates his misery with the work.
UGH. There's so much more that is terrible, but I just fast forward through it, trapped by the inevitability of it all. God I can't wait for this piece of garbage to be over so I'm not compelled to watch it.
Oh, and NO ONE gives a FUCK who gets together with who on this crap, so let it go.
Yep. That's not to say I'm not enjoying myself watching it, but I am in no way invested in any of the storylines, let alone the romantic ones.
Let's see, does the roll of soggy paper towels have more sparks with Sneer or with that other thing? Bitch, please.
- I love how Ana didn't need a microphone for the benefit, yet Karen did when she sang just before her...
- So much grasping and reaching from the [S]Hit List Dancers. Dramatic!
- R224, by "button," I mean the absolute final moments which will end the show, once and for all. It immediately follows the final musical number.
- I thought Shitlist looked like an interpretive dance number that never ended.
That couldn't sell out Broadway.
- [quote]The haters go so OTT with this kat mcphee dead eyes crap! She's a perfectly decent actress and given the crap plots and lines she gets, with little or no character development, she does a good a job as is allowed, especially considering Karen, by her nature is pretty placid!
totally agree. the antipathy toward McPhee and Karen is way out of proportion. I find the character and the actress quite likeable.
- Bernadette Peters - Sluggo (from the 'Nancy' comics) in curls.
- OK, I actually agree with Not Marc about Ivy-she really is a better match for Derek. OK, fangurls, flame away!
No guesses yet on who gets pregnant? And no, it's not Cousin Deb.
I disagree with those who didn't like "You Hung The Moon." It's a very sweet song but it was so badly shot and edited. Where were the fucking close-ups? And shooting Megan Hilty from below is not such a great idea.
My perception of Davenport was he was fine. He'd throw in the occasional witticism and he worked hard but he was never anybody's favorite presence there. The "favorites" on the set were undoubtedly Hilty, Borle and Huston. No question.
- Derek is old enough to be her father.
- That stupid 'moon' song was boring. Same melody over and over.
It's a shame, yet Bernadette did sing it beautifully.
- So, even though there won't be a lot of "new" Bombshell numbers, will we get to see the some of the well-known Season 1-2 numbers fully staged once it's on Broadway?
I'm really hoping so, especially now that Hilty is back in the lead.
- Though I won't say in what context, you can expect to see Dig Deep and Our Little Secret again. Bellhop can chime in if he remembers what others, but those, for sure. Plus, some of the book. There is also another Bernadette Bombshell number, but it is several episodes away.
[quote]The Hit List songs this year are actually selling a lot better than most of last season's Bombshell songs, and that's with a lot lower ratings.
There are some good Hit List songs toward the end of the season. There is another song from the composer behind Heart-Shaped Wreckage that is very good, and there is an upbeat song that is almost a club track, pretty catchy.
The Karen / Derek fangurls creep me out. Very strange.
- I can't believe anyone actually thinks that that these characters are anything more than cardboard cutouts. Who cares if cardboard Karen "ends" up with cardboard Derek or cardboard Jimmy.
- Me, too, Not Marc. I don't get them at all. I never bought Derek and Karen as a couple. He's too pervy.
As for the songs I guarantee you one thing-you haven't lived until you've seen and heard "Broadway, Here I Come" done in the manner of the Cats of off-Broadway, Stomp. In the penultimate episode there will be two new songs-one showstopper performed by Hilty and a few others and another sung by someone who doesn't normally sing. I really like the song but fear it will be snarked up the gills.
- basically the best parts are the dance numbers.
- I'm looking forward to those Hit List numbers.
Bellhop, I'm guessing Ana gets pregnant. Yes/No?
- I really, really hate the songs in Hit List. The worst type of generic lyric writing in musical theater today. The songs neither develop plot (what plot?) nor develop character. These new composers need to take a listen to the likes of She Loves Me and learn how to write a character driven number.
Just because the music/orchestrations are modern doesn't mean the lyrics can't be witty, well-thought/rhymed and carrying meaning.
- [quote]Bellhop, I'm guessing Ana gets pregnant.
Well, it sure as hell won't be ME!
- What pop covers are left this season? Hilty said in an interview that McPhee covers 'Stay' by Rihanna later in the season. When does this happen?
- [quote]Who cares if cardboard Karen "ends" up with cardboard Derek or cardboard Jimmy.
At a minimum I hope there's no MacArthur Park cover.
- Belhop or Not Marc can you please enlighten us as to why they would bring in a hot actor like Daniel Sunjata only to have him disappear after a couple of episodes without leaving so much as a skidmark?
Was that always the producers' intention or did they hire Daniel with the expectation of a longer arc that didn't work out for some reason?
- R277 Oh, he left skid marks all right!
- I only watch to see how god-awful they can make Anjelica look week after week. When Derek offered to help Jimmy, I wanted them to kiss. Otherwise this a mess ~ a very expensive mess.
I love hating this ~
- The Hit List songs are co-written by Andrew McMahon of Something Corporate and Jack's Mannequin fame. He does have indie/emo/pop cred even if his songs are mired in the hate watch fest of Smash.
- I like Derek and Ivy as friends, but not romantically. Plus how weak would that make Ivy, to get back with someone who treated her so badly first time round.
I'm not sure Karen and Derek are suited for each other either, but I won't deny their chemistry is fantastic.
So sad how they've written the character of Jimmy, because he should have been a great cast addition. Now, despite me rooting for Karen, I'm actively rooting for Karen and Jimmy to NOT GET TOGETHER, yet it seems like they're in it for the long haul!
- I'm guessing Ana is the one who gets knocked up, which is why they bring in Daisy to replace her as The Diva on Hit List?
Also, can someone please explain to me who this Daisy person is and why she's going to have such prominence for the last few eps? Why would people invest in a new character so late in the day? Does it have smtg to do with her accusing Derek of sexual harassment, so he brings her in and she drops her allegation?
- Kyle has to be the one that dies right? He may as well be dead considering he's the most useless character of all time! Lol
- To Not Marc and Bellhop - surely it was obvious each episode how badly jimmy was coming across as a character,couch as during the table reads and filming. Was this ever discussed and anything done about it? Ie. is jimmy going to improve as the season goes on?
- No, R284, Safran and the others had no idea that Jimmy would be utterly loathed by a large segment of the audience. They thought his arrogance and general douchery was cute and part of being young and ambitious.
As for Daniel Sunjata, he was only brought in for the dramaturg story arc. You shall not be seeing him again, not even at the Tony Awards. And when Jesse L. Martin disappears he's gone foe good, too. Cousin Deb's still-pissed ex hubby makes an eye rolling reappearance, though. Can we all say "mediation," boys and girls?
Daisy is the very attractive redhead who was going after Derek for sexual harrassment. Let's just they come to an arrangement and she ends up victorious.
- Bellhop or Not Marc
At this point for me it doesn't really matter who ends up with who. But will it at least be believable. I mean in this episode on Saturday Derek tells Karen he cares for her. Is there at least going to be some time between that and when he gets back together with Ivy. Ivy won't be rebound for him will she?
- The problem with Jimmy being so unlikeable is that he's taking Karen down with him. When s2 should have been about Karen moving on from Dev the Douche and being independent (which at first she was when she found hit list) she's now being portrayed as someone really pathetic, for falling for a guy who is rude or dismissive to her most of the time, and yet she somehow finds it attractive! Obviously safran & co didn't expect it to turn out this way, but I just can't understand how people could in any way root for jimmy the way he is written, and I guess the way jeremy portrays him. Heck even Jordan and McPhee are aware what a d*ck jimmy is. Jeremy even before the season started said Jimmy was a jerk, and Kat McPhee in that recent interview with Jeremy filming during ep9 filming, said that Jimmy had a bad attitude. The 2 actors cannot have been happy about this.
- R286, Ivy and Derek will go through the usual soapy will-they-or-won't-they nonsense. There's a significant event coming up which fundamentally cements their relationship, though.
- I read that Ivy gets a late night visitor in this Saturday's episode. Who wants to bet it'll be Derek, after Karen has turned him down!
- Does anyone really want to have to sit through those awful Ivy and Derek sex scenes again? I hope Safran at least spares us that this season!
- I can no longer watch Jeremy Jordan without thinking how that jerk likes to 'dutch oven' his wife in bed.
- [quote]I never bought Derek and Karen as a couple. He's too pervy.
I am not one of the fangurls, but I think the love of them as a couple is that Karen would save Derek from his perviness. Derek isn't that unlikable, so I can see how fans would want him to be redeemed.
Jimmy is so unlikable that I don't think people care if he is saved or why Karen would want to try.
- Bellhop or NotMarc, has the cast already been told that the show will be canceled? Or are they holding out hope. I know Messing has moved on with a new pilot. I would think the official announcement would be coming any day now or, is it later in May.
Although I hate where the show has been going this past season, I loved watching it and am a big fan of the BOMBSHELL fake cast recording.
- This week, Smash had more viewers than The New Girl or The Mindy Project. Not that that's saying much. And it skews older than networks like.
Which I frankly don't understand. Viewers 50+ have much more expendable income and are much more prone to making larger purchases. Why aren't they the demographic that advertisers lust after?
- I agree about wanting Derek (who appears like he would be omni-sexual)to get some sort of sexual payback from Jimmy. The scene between the two when Derek found out about Jimmy's past was probably the most sexually charged of the entire series. Derek's longing look at the pert butt of Jimmy as he walked away was like that of a cheetah eyeing his baby dik dik prey. On another note Bernie's rendition of Hang Me from the Moon (or whatever the fuck it was) while pretty is another in her line of kitchen sink ballads where there is a tear in every word. This can be effective but when it's her default setting for every song she sings it can be monotonous. Her Special Olympics version of Losing My Mind in the last Bway revival of Follies was the worst thing in the show. I like her alot but jeez enough already.
- Bernadette's Sally was flawless!
- Not a fangurl but I am rooting for Derek and Karen. Ivy is to needy and Jimmy is an asshole.
- Please do not tell me Ivy is going to be the person who is pregnant, with Derek's child?! If that happens Smash deserves everything it gets!
- [quote]Her Special Olympics version of Losing My Mind in the last Bway revival of Follies was the worst thing in the show.
LOL! It was baffling--really one of the worst, most misguided interpretations of a song I could imagine. And went on FOREVER.
-  lol but it would be so Gossip Girl.
- R299 Marin Mazzie's version of Losing My Mind at the Sondheim Bday celebration at Carnegie Hall (?) was impeccable. One of the best. It was broadcast on Great Performances. Also Patti doing Ladies Who Lunch was great too.
- R294, advertisers believe that people over 50 are already set in their ways, and are less likely to try new products (unless they are prescription medicines).
- Can anyone explain to me why there is a character called The Diva in Hit List? Not that I care a whit about that plotline, but it seems so out of character for that small indie show to have a 'Diva' character, yet they all carry on about her as if they're DLers frothing about the next potential 'Mame.'
- The Diva character, the way I see it, is a narrator/symbol obviously based on an Arachne type character.
Didn't you automatically think of Turn Off the Dark the way that number was staged?
- R304, I have not seen Spiderman (nor will I, I reckon; just have zero interest in comic book movies or plays). So my immediate thought was Jane Krakowski singing 'A Call from the Vatican' in Nine.
- R301, Marin Mazzie is one of the presenters in the Tony Awards sequence and she looks absolutely incredible. Her gown is stunning. It made me think what a remarkable Phyllis in Follies she'd be. Jan Maxwell is a hag compared to her.
Grumpy McHorny (fabulous moniker, by the way), I totally think Davenport played that look directly at Jimmy's butt to read as "Your tight, sweaty hole is MINE for the foreseeable future, you cheeky chappie." But Safran and the dummy writers didn't fly with it, of course.
The cast is well aware the show is toast. They said their goodbyes to each other with the underlying feel of "It's not officially over until May but let's face it, it's over."
- Bellhop and Not Marc, would you say it is around 50/50 Bombshell and Hit List for the remainder of the season?
I can tolerate Hit List, but only if Bombshell gets equal focus.
- I loved Bombshell last season but omg am I sick of it now, especially if we have to see dig deep and the JFK song again - 2 of the weakest songs imo. The problem I have is that it kind of already felt like a bombshell finale at s1 when it had its big Boston preview performance, and both ivy and Karen got their turn at being Marilyn. That was a satisfactory ending. Everything now just seems like repetion, and the more Tom directs the more irritating he is becoming.
I've been enjoying all the Hit List music and am excited to see how the show looks when properly staged. Right now, because its new and fresh I'm way more invested in this aspect of Smash.
Anyone else not trust Scott btw? He seems shady to me.
- Hey Bellhop. Grumpy here. I have to come up with subliminal motivations and subplots sometimes to make up for uninvolving actual plotlines. Derek lustily pondering Jimmy's mound of Venus makes more sense to me than any carnal desires he may have towards that Swiffer Mop Karen.
- If you think it through, there was a pretty huge spoiler in the teaser for next week's episode.
- R310 LIza is the next Marilyn in Bombshell?
- Shit list. Good name. It truly is terrible
- Because I'm not sure that I care enough about the characters to care who ends with who I'm going to choose Karen and Derek for the sole reason that they're the perfect height for each other! Ivy's too short for Derek and Jimmy's too short for Karen. No wonder Karen's always wearing hipster flat shoes these days #smashproblems
- Hang on, add me to the 'not a fangirl but also way prefers Karen and Derek over Derek and Ivy' list. I'm not sure Derek really has it in him to be with anyone but at least there's proper sexual tension between the two of them. Derek and Ivy together was all kinds of icky.
- I dont trust Scott either! I feel he's gonna end up villainous
- Bellhop. Serious question now:
Who was the biggest diva bitch on set? Debra Messing or Kat McPhee's seemingly awesome dog Nena?!
- Bellop or Not Marc
If Ivy is pregnant will the pregnancy carrier through the rest of season or will something happen?
- people are really taking you seriously? ha ha
- Jimmy gets shot and killed by his dealer right?? His story arc is the inspiration for the RENT/HIT LIST rip off. McPhee and company will bravely go on with the performance after hearing the news that he is 'daid.'
- "Don't cry, Karen. Jimmy's up in heaven, dutch-ovening angels now."
- Cue Norbutt and the finale number from **HEAVEN ON EARTH**...
- R317, I sense that was a joke question you posited but I'll say this-Nena was a sweetheart and Cousin Deb not so much.
Bombshell and The Hit List get equal time on the 8 episodes left to go.
Grumpy, your view may have been subliminal about Derek's view but he was DEFINITELY staring at Jimmy's ass. I wasn't there on set that day but I bet Davenport asked the director/DP/camera department where Derek's eyeline should be for Jimmy's ass.
- And it's only in the final episode when one of the gals discovers she'll be eating for two.
- What specifically did Jordan do to piss off the crew?
Also, Not Marc actually IS Marc, right?
- What happened with all of the drama around Deb and the guy she had an affair with? Do they still speak? Is she back with her husband? Is the stress surrounding that situation what makes cousin Deb less than pleasant to be around?
I love these insider posts. Thanks for posting here, Bellhop and Not Marc.
- Has Megan been romantically involved with anyone?
- As far as I know Cousin Deb is still with the adorable Will Chase. She's always on the unpleasant side--we shuddered to think what she'd be like if she didn't have him to help make her happy. Her reputation was bad way before she started the pilot two years ago and she lived up to it.
Those first few weeks Jeremy Jordan was snotty and wouldn't speak to the crew. And when he did it was like they were his lackeys. A few times when there would be a slight delay which is typical of the filming process he'd yell "OK, let's fucking do this, let's GO!" The crew would stare at him. One of them muttered "Who the fuck does he think he is, Chris Meloni? He's only been here two minutes."
- I just want to know why Ivy's songs and screentime have been cut to pieces. How was this even a solution?
- Everybody's screen time and songs have been fucked up. The whole thing is just garbage.
- The staging was very poor-girl's-P!NK, but I thought that the "diva" song on the last episode was quite beautiful and that actress was really selling it for me. It was that rare moment for me when I forget, even just momentarily, that I was watching a shitty show.
- Karen's had plenty of songs, screentime, and storyarcs. And romantic interests. And propping. And staged numbers. And half the new Bombshell numbers on top of tons of $shit List.
But Ivy has been cut and reduced, despite being the critical darling from first season. WTF?
- Without comparing her to Karen, I find Ivy annoying, whiny, petulant, needy and that fierce manic smiling on her up days does not represent a pleasant change.
If McPhee has dead eyes, Ivy is crazytown.
- Bellhop or notmarc, whomever might know, was it ever planned in any iteration of the show that Arthur Miller would have a greater presence, and the/an actor who played him, his own arc? It would only seem fair and logical, since “a JFK” is coming up, but the appearances of Miller were so random and scattered in first season I couldn’t tell if he was ever going to have equal time with DiMaggio.
- I'm a person (pretty sure the last time I checked) and I'll attest I think/agree Derek and Ivy are a far better match. Ivy and Derek shippers think exactly the same thing that Karen and Derek shippers do in reverse - Derek and Karen are the dull ones with no chemistry. We like to let the chemistry speak for ourselves and not street-team it all over the Internet, though.
- Bellhop or Not Marc,
How much of Don't Forget Me will we get to hear Ivy sing? All of it or just a snippet?
- Remember, fans -- tomorrow is the first Saturday airing of a new episode.
- I usually watch it on Hulu, but since there's nothing on Saturday's except Cops, I'll watch Smash.
- "We like to let the chemistry speak for ourselves and not street-team it all over the Internet, though."
Funniest thing I've read all week. I'll just take your word then there's millions of Derek and Ivy shippers out there who just choose to tell no one. WTF
I don't give a shit about any of the couplings (that would mean me actually caring about any of the characters) but even I can see that there's a crap load of people who want Karen and Derek to be together.
- It's amazing how Safran has managed to make the characters even worse s2:
- Ivy is awful this season. Amazing that they've tried to redeem her and yet she's become even more hateable! Give me bitchy ambitious crazy Ivy over self-pitying, wallowing Ivy any day!
- Tom has become insufferable with the whole director crap
- Julia is a self-obsessed as always
- Karen is now pathetically pining over the most worthless low life ever, when this season she was supposed to be independent and grow a spine
- Derek is acting like a kid with his jimmy/Karen jealousy
- Sam is just ..... there
- Eileen - same old same old every single week
- Jimmy - what were the writers thinking?!
- I still don't get what Jeremy did that was bad. Why should he talk to the crew unless it's a part of his job? Small talk is a distraction. And if he was saying let's go, was he talking to the crew? And, if so, your first comment makes no sense And if he's not talking to the crew, then he's firing himself up which is perfectly okay.
- If you've ever been on a TV set (or a movie set, for that matter) there is a lot of very necessary interaction between cast and crew. "Thank you" and "please" go a long way.
- Tons of people are rooting for a sex scene between Eileen and Tom, Derek and the drug dealer, Karen and Julia...
Also heard about people rooting for Ivy and Ana.
But they just like to let the chemistry speak for themselves and not street-team it all over the Internet.
- By tons of people you mean like 5 or 6 right?
- Thank you, R340. That's exactly what's wrong with her.
I hope Karen and Derek do fuck, except it would ruin the subtext between them and then ruin the show.
Hey, wait a a minute...
- Does anybody else think, in the real world, Megan Hilty wouldn't have a chance at being cast as Marilyn Monroe?
When I was watching Hang the Moon I just couldn't help but think Hilty's build and proportions were all wrong for Marilyn. I Googled, and height wise they're not that far about, Hilty is 5'3", MM was 5'51/2"m but Hilty's frame still seems all wrong to me. Maybe I just got used to watching McPhee costumed up for it (who is three inches taller than MM) but Hilty's character just seemed to me as unlikely casting as McPhee's.
- 5 or 6... Exactly the number of people rooting for Derek and Ivy.
- Bellhop, Not Marc, a good question then: Does someone on the production side champion Derek and Ivy? Obviously if it’s really so unpopular, it’s senseless to revisit it as a continuing thread. Bad decisions have been made before if someone thinks Jimmy is charming, but unlike Jimmy, they had a season’s worth of reaction to Derek and Ivy in hand before taking that direction this season.
- Just found this thread as I don't drop into DL much (not nearly enough, anyway)...
Mantello may not give his actors line readings; I'd guess that's because he's an actor and respects the process. Not to mention that he would have taken the head off a director who gave HIM line readings during his career.
The "Let me be you" thing was pulled directly from Jerry Mitchell, who has joked about how awful it is in interviews but nevertheless used to do it (and maybe still does) relentlessly. Works fine with the dancers but the real actors tend to want to skin him.
It's probably more of a choreographer-turned-director thing. Those who actually know how to direct a performance, as opposed to just stage it, are more likely to shy away from that b.s.
I'm sure it came straight from Borle himself. Nice to see him having some fun.
- I don't work on Smash, but I've been in the film / theater industry for about ten years and worked on a number of productions of this size. The problem isn't that the crew expects or wants an actor to socialize with us, we just want to be respected and that doesn't happen all the time. A lot of actors (not all, but a shocking number) at this level take on this attitude like, if I weren't here YOU wouldn't have a job, and the reality is that both of us play a vital role in the production process. Without crew members who show up first, leave last and deal in conditions no actor would dream of being in, actors wouldn't have a platform to do what they do. No crew member would ever approach Jeremy and tell him to "hurry up" if he wasn't getting the shot in one or two takes, so to have an actor yell that at the crew is just disrespectful.
- *JEREMY LOVES SHOOTING SEX SCENES!*
*JEREMY HINTS THAT (SPOILER!) JIMMY DIES SOON!*
*JEREMY SINGS RADIOHEAD & MARC SHAIMAN SONGS!*
*JEREMY JEREMY JEREMY JEREMY!*
- I haven't watched last Tuesdays episode yet, but the main song (I Heard Your Voice in a Dream, I think) from the week before, from Asshole Genius' Wanna Be Rent was a pretty great song.
- Well put, Wardrobe Girl. At least Cousin Deb knows and understands that sets are fundamentally social environments as far as workplaces go and days tend to go more smoothly if everyone is at least civil to one another and their presence is acknowledged. Jordan didn't seem to get this during his first weeks on the show and needed to be reminded of it.
As for whether Derek/Ivy being championed by production I only have a guess and that is Safran saw Karen and Jimmy together because they're the "young and fresh" ones. Ivy is considered more "mature" and therefore more suitable for Derek.
- Thanks, Bellhop. Do you know if they ever considered any other romantic options for Derek, like say Julia? I always thought that might be kind of interesting, though that might be primarily because of its having gone wholly unexplored.
Does the death happen before finale or during last eposide. Also summary for ep 11 says Karen gets suspious of Derek's motives, so I assume she starts to think his decisions are tainted now and against her. After that though do they recover a friendship.
- R354, I don't know if they ever considered a romantic relationship between Derek and Julia. I suspect they didn't.
R355, if I told you when the death occurs I'd be tipping off the victim's identity and I don't want to do that, sorry.
- Just kill them all.
Make that the finale, a final moment for each one. You've already managed to kill the show.
- Seriously. Someone needs to go Moldavia on their asses.
- Well, I've served on many film and theater crews, too, and if Jeremy was rude to the crew person who cut off his sideburns for his first episode, he was totally justified.
And if that made Jeremy suspicious of all other crew, even that was somewhat justifiable in a young actor.
sort of kidding, but not really...
Is Ovenden's character (Simon) important in any way? It sounded like he'd be a possible love interest, but there's been a press release, one unnamed appearance, and nada. Like he was just another ensemble member.
- That's a mystery, R360. He flew over from London for that one appearance on his own dime, I think. No, he never appears again.
- oh no, they're in tech again!!!
- I love how they're in a Broadway tech but everyone is off partying with Liza or dramaturging off-Broadway shows.
10 out of 12
- It made my heart swell that Karen/Derek didn't happen tonight. I'm really and truly not a fan. She can have the druggie.
A Patti Lupone burn last week plus Bernadette Peters performing then Liza Minelli performing this week? Damn show. Way to make me love you. At least until Karen shows up again.
Oh Tom- Look Ivy I got you Liza! Ivy might finally have competition for my love.
Hey Bellhop, can you give any hints on when Ivy and Derek's relationship gets cemented? I like Ivy/Derek but mainly I'm counting down until Derek/Karen is gone for good. Any Megan Hilty gossip would be awesome too. I've always read she was a sweetheart behind the scenes.
- Sorry, Liza was the only reason to watch this episode. I'm afraid they've finally lost me. SOOOOO boring, so soapy.
I still want to see more of Bombshell. I really like Marc and Scott's music, and I like the concept. HATE HATE HATE Shit List. I adore Megan Hilty and am enjoying Anjelica Huston, but the rest are putting me to sleep.
I'm pouting because I was a huge fan from the start, but they're just making mistake after mistake.
- If you hate it that much then stop watching. The shows done, just let it play out , if you have no control what happens then the only thing you control is your own behavior. So you control if you watch it or not.
- R365, there are just as many people who are tired of all things Bombshelll and who are interested in HitList. People love cruelly bitching about the show last year and they're doing the exact same thing this year but pretending that they enjoyed last year. They were unbelievably nasty last season.
The real truth is that Broadway brings out bitchy, catty, nasty people who love to tear everything down. Just check out the theatre threads on here. This version of the show is FAR from perfect but the team this year tried to address complaints form last year. Both teams, this year and last year, truly aimed to deliver something worthwhile. They may have failed but they genuinely tried. No cruelty or cynicism involved.
- They didn't try hard enough.
- I am able to watch again because of Hit List. I enjoyed tonight's episode, but was glad there was so little of Bombshell, which is what I think was wrong from the beginning, especially the music, which that dull, uninspired stuff that make people who think they hate musicals think they hate musicals.
Plus, the story of Marilyn Monroe is not interesting to me except when taken in the Kennedy context.
- Hit List--its a musical about WHAT???
- Kinky Boots seems like it will be a soft hit-a year to a year and a half (maybe 2 years tops)-will never be a tough ticket on par with Full Monty, Sister Act etc
they have a terrible ad campaign and their tv commercial sucks
- Everything concerning Shit List is a fast forward section. Hell, I ff'ed through everything with cousin Debbie and that detective from Law and Order since their scenes are so excruciating. Ditto Anjelica and the TIMESMAN. I watch maybe about five minutes in total of this garbage.
- Was Liza having trouble walking into the room, or was that just me? I enjoyed her song, and she raised the level of the show. So the question is a point of information, not meant in a mean way.
- Has Liza always sung with a lisp?
- Oh, R367. You're sweet. But this show has got it so incredibly wrong in many, many ways since that dark day Theresa Rebeck sat her fat ass in front of her computer and started pecking away.
Sorry to the posters who ask about Derek/Ivy and Jimmy/Karen. All you need to know is that both couples are endgame. Period.
- I thought Tom only wrote music and that Julia writes the lyrics. So did Tom write the lyrics to Liza's song? Also, how did he find Ivy's party?
- R364, Hilty is an absolute sweetheart. She's friendly, warm, hard working, sweet, funny-just a
lovely, lovely person. McPhee is very sweet, too, but somewhat shy.
- And how did Derek know where Ivy was?
They must have really given up on this show-- they didn't even show any previews for next week.
- Tom was walking to Ivy's apartment when he ran into Sue and Bobby(?) outside the bar where the party was. He stopped to talk to them, noticed someone he knew inside, and of course, there was Ivy.
I think Ivy was still in the same bar, so presumably Derek could have found her the same way - by walking to her place and glancing in the window.
Tom doesn't write the book, but he's at least noodled with lyrics before, like the teasing songs for Leo. And let's face it, this is a personal song for Ivy, not itself fodder for the NYT, he's up to it.
- R379 But Ivy was taking a taxi to (supposedly) go home, so why wouldn't Tom have also taken a taxi to go directly to her building instead of walking from somewhere "around the corner"?
- The first number they performed (from "Hit List") sounded like a country song. Almost a "story song."
- I understand how a lot of viewers grew sick of BOMBSHELL. I know I did. But there were some great songs in season 1 that I really enjoyed.
I loathe every single number from HIT LIST and force myself not to fast forward through them. The production numbers are always cringingly overproduced and absurd. But the songs themselves are terrible.
I'm astonished by the love for HIT LIST on parts of this thread. The stuff is dreck.
- don't they keep saying that Hit List is a sung through show? Why are Karen and the druggie rehearsing a book scene?
Wait. Nevermind. It's absurd to ask a question about logic or consistency with this show.
- I'd watch Hit List in a second if it was a real show on Broadway. Bombshell too
- Nancy Drew and the Case of the Missing Keys!
- Thank you for momentarily growing a spine Karen and damn you Jimmy for sucking her back in. And how childish and obnoxious were Ivy, Sam & the ensemble being in this episode - worse than high school! And I forgot how much Derek acts like a spoilt child when he doesn't get his own way.
- "street-team it all over the Internet" has all the makings of a DL meme. Fucking love it.
- I love how people just show up at other peoples apartments like they are in Pine Valley--happens all the time in NYC
anyone ever heard of a phone?
- [quote]Hit List--its a musical about WHAT???
Bingo. It's hard to invest in the supposed genius of this show when we don't even have a clue what it's about. That whole scene of Kyle glibly rearranging generic cards was embarrassing. And worse, uninteresting.
[quote]And how childish and obnoxious were Ivy, Sam & the ensemble being in this episode - worse than high school!
Sadly, this was one of the few realistic things about the episode. It's not uncommon for this kind of adolescent, toxic group-think to spread through a cast like cancer. It's a director's nightmare.
- "adolescent toxic group-think" is a good way to describe it, lol! The whole junior high school "lets not invite Tom to my b'day" crap pissed me off too! No wonder its hard to root for these characters most of the time when they act like such theater brats, which they are! And Derek as well was throwing his dummies out the pram. And Ivy and Derek at the end ....... REALLY, WE'RE GOING THERE AGAIN?!!!! Lol! This show makes me so mad and yet I can't stop watching, argh!!
- In the Team Karen /Team Ivy rubbish that emerged on the internet I thought one thing was lost: neither one of them should have been cast. Karen looks too frequently like a lost tourist and Ivy is a needy sponge. Everything on this show is so brief, so drive by, so undeveloped I am starting to wonder if Pinterest hasn't developed a script writing software.
- [quote]I loathe every single number from HIT LIST ... the songs themselves are terrible.
There's something familiar about them that I like. Something having to do with tempo and rhythm more than melody. And it makes me like them. The BOMBSHELL songs, OTOH, just meander around like they're lost. My brain simply fails to take them in.
One of the problems with both sets of songs, as well as many of the songs in ABC's NASHVILLE, is that we only hear most of them once, and they often seem incomplete. This is the opposite of how I get to like most music, i.e., through repetition. More songs I've really liked in my life came through for me on the third repetition than the first listen.
- Yes, the Hit List songs are hard to take in after only hearing them once.
I agree with the following, "More songs I've really liked in my life came through for me on the third repetition than the first listen" from R392.
- [quote]Everything on this show is so brief, so drive by, so undeveloped I am starting to wonder if Pinterest hasn't developed a script writing software.
Yes, this is it. When you consider the size of the cast the musical numbers and story lines there just isn't enough time to do it all. So it's all watered down and there is no development or transition from episode to episode that makes sense. "Drive by" is a perfect description of what is wrong with this show.
- Exactly. If this show had been created by Matthew Weiner, we'd have an entire episode on, say, just Kyle, Karen and those cards, during which we'd learn an enormous amount about a.) the project, b.) the process and c.) the lives of Kyle and Karen.
- Great point, R395. That is all.
- Okay, I just rewatched the intro and the Diva chick is in it. I predict that she plummets to her death from the silks routine and that's when Daisy comes in to take her place, in a weird Turn Off the Dark moment when everything malfunctions. Bellhop, amiright?!
- Who's Daisy?
- Does the Jennifer Hudson arc not seem even more pointless and almost bizarre, in retrospect? I know the intent - get viewers - but man, what was that about?
- Daisy is the dancer that said Derek sexually harassed her.
Bellhop - what is the name of the restaurant that they keep shooting in for "Table 46"? I recognize it, but for the life of me cannot place it and I don't think that's the real name.
- ^ yes it seems completely pointless, and failed to bring in any viewers, so just fail all round!
I still can't believe we're like 25 episodes and I still have absolutely no idea why Karen ever wanted to be a broadway actress in the first place, it's crazy! And same with Derek. We know nothing about him still.
- Bellhop, I heard that Rihanna's Stay is going to be covered in an upcoming ep. Is it performed as a duet on the show?
- A lot of what is bad about the show could have been changed with a simple switch:
Make Derek Eileen, and Eileen into Derek, at least if they wanted to continue to write the Derek we got. Simultaneously supposed to be seen as autocratic asshole and romantic prize. I think Huston would be great barking at people, and they could still have plenty of Derek interacting with the two women. Making the director a man with this particular setup, invites us to think every problem and decision related to the Broadway shows are ultimately traced to Derek's dick. Which may be a sad commentary on the state of gender perceptions today, but it's there, and the writing execution was no help.
- Sad how Derek descended into an immature prick this episode just because he didn't get some! And then went to get some from Ivy cos that's how he rolls. Both girls are better off without him. This show gives Karen and Ivy no self- respect!
- Thanks for the BTS about Megan Hilty Bellhop. Good to know rumors were true!
I won't bug you anymore for spoilers though I want to. This season has been much more Karen heavy than the first one was. Was that a deliberate creative decision? I never thought Ivy/Derek was particularly unpopular (they certainly weren't critically) but given the focus on Karen and her role as Derek's muse I am surprised they are putting them back together. Were those changes just a result of wanting to focus more on the young, hot crowd with the trendier Hit List or was there more to it? I'm a gossip junkie, gotta admit it. Is everyone BTS aware of the hate Katharine McPhee and Karen get or like with Jimmy, did they just completely miscalculate?
- ^ I love these hilty stans who post shit about mcphee, but try and do it in a subtle way. Sad!
- You just need to check out the comments on the smash facebook page and its 1000s of followers - you know, the one where the same perso can't make multiple posts pretending to be diff people - to see that the majority of people are still team Karen, and mcphee fans, just like they've always been. I like both Karen and Ivy, and have never understood this apparent obsession of hilty fans to try discredit mcphee. It's pretty pathetic. The reason Karen's role is still prominent in s2 is because the showmakers do their research on who the general public wants to see. And jimmy could have been a perfect character, and appeal to lots of people, but the writers have done a shitty job with him, it's kinda embarrassing how unlikeable they made him. Jeremy Jordan and Katharine Mcphee can't be pleased with how they've portrayed jimmy this season, and in turn how it's dragged down Karen
- In reply to poster 405, I don't think Derek and Ivy were ever popular, but there's certainly no mass following of people who are invested in them becoming a couple. Most people prefer them as friends. And call it what you will, it's undeniable that there's a shit load of people who seem to want Karen and Derek together. I personally don't think Derek deserves either lady
- I meant to say "ever not popular"
- Acted well, and not like a black/white one-dimensional asshole, the Jimmy could be done well in the hands of a more capable actor.
- Yes because we all know what the majority of people want. The majority wants Karen/Derek! The majority wants Ivy/Derek! The majority thinks Karen is really a unicorn! None of us know shit about what the majority wants and no, the Internet does not represent any kind of general consensus. The only thing we know for sure is the general consensus of critics and the people around us, whether online or at home. Are we really going to pretend McPhee wasn't bashed critically? Come on now.
- The TWOP board has given Hilty messianic powers. It's disgusting. They can't even say something positive about Hilty without also taking a run at McPhee. I assume they're all twelve.
Hilty's talented and a better classic Broadway belter than McPhee, no denying, but I don't get the Ivy love... Ivy's a brat on a good day.
- Wardrobe Girl, the exterior for Table 46 is Joe Allen's but all the interiors for it were shot on a soundstage in Long Island City. The interiors for the rehearsal hall and Eileen's office were in Greenpoint.
- R402, sorry, I don't know the answer to that one.
- Did I miss it on one of these threads or has anyone yet guessed that Jimmy will die a pre-mature death a la Jonathan Larson, as his character and Hit List are (somewhat pathetically) based on Jonathan Larson/Rent?
- Hilty was asked about "Stay" in an interview and said she thinks it's Kat's song. Could be a duet with Ana or Jimmy but would not swear to it, just know it's not a duet with Ivy.
TWOP also represents a single person representing a single point of view under its accounts. Whether or not pro-Karen people post there is a separate matter (they have, but they usually come out swinging with unquestionable personal attacks that get you bounced by the site’s draconian rules), but every pro-Ivy person is a real pro-Ivy person. Facebook is self-selecting, and doesn’t tend to represent Ivy fans because the Karen fans usually attack Ivy. I know conservatively half a dozen people who have said they never go there, because they’re tired of reading variants on how Ivy is a self-serving whore who deserves nothing better than to be stuck in the ensemble for the rest of her life.
- The attacks on the Karen character are sustained and loopy on TWOP.
What's creepiest is how personal they make it. It's like these characters are real people to the TWOPPERS. They suffer more for Ivy than Ivy suffers for Ivy.
- yes, well, there are a lot of problems with the character of Karen, in my opinion. It takes a while.
I also don't necessarily think it's "suffer more for Ivy", it's "suffer more for Hilty". Which, as someone upthread posted (not me), it cannot be denied that Hilty took a major cut in screen time this season. There were some episodes this season, where she had less screen time than the episodes last season where I thought "wow, they hired and are paying Anjelica Huston-type money, to give these episodes to Huston?"
- Why are we debating other boards again? This thread has become a drag.
- Question for anybody: When Eileen and Richard were discussing "Wilson" last night, did they mean "August"? Could anyone tell from the context? I'm curious.
- The McPhee/Hiltry fangirls/tards who are so into this shit are ruining this thread.
- What does it matter? Liza was on Saturday and while "singing" a Marc shaiman standard that neither Liza nor the piano player could pick the melody out of, Angelica Huston's tire of a face, lost more air.
It got 1.88 million views and a 0.5 in the demo.
- They were "discussing" Robert Wilson in an effort to seem high art pretentious which is patently absurd since the writers clearly had NO idea WTF they were talking about.
Another terrible example of how this show thinks name checking some random will give them artistic credibility and yet another reason why this piece of shit needs to be off the air ASAP.
- Bellhop, what's the deal with the ep12 pic of Ana hanging out at the Bombshell afterparty with Jimmy's drug dealer dude? Is he doing it to get at Karen to get at Jimmy etc? Whatever the answer, it all seems ridiculous, lol! Its insane how the writers have managed to create such a terrible character as jimmy. And its destroying Karen too who just comes across pathetically for being all googly eyed over him. Jeremy Jordan and Katharine McPhee can't have been pleased!
- SMASH hits an all time low in Saturday switch.
Not even the star power of Liza Minnelli could boost the ratings.
I really was pulling for this show. LIked the Bombshell plot line. Hated the addition of Jeremy Jordan and his "Rent" musical.
- You really think Liza Minnelli has star power enough to boost a show's ratings?
- "Let's all stay home and catch Liza on TV this Saturday! It'll be a blast!"
- R424, can't answer you on the Ana pic but Jordan and McPhee never seemed to have a problem with the material they were given. You'd think there would have been a substantial amount of eye-rolling on set over the material but there wasn't.
- Bellhop, is the Hilty "showstopper" that's in the penultimate episode Bombshell-related or something else?
- I guess it's only when you watch back a whole ep, can you get a real feel for things. As an actor you're probably so invested in your own scenes you don't have time to sit back and wonder how it'll play out. Plus I imagine you put some trust in your writers and showrunner to get things right. I know he is horribly written, but I think the way Jeremy plays Jimmy makes him even worse. He's so snouty and unpleasant.
- How many episodes left?
- A better actor could make the Jimmy material work. You can't play it all "angry" and "sullen" like he does.
- Somebody probably advised Jordan to roll with it because it worked so well when Safran did it for Ed Westwick on Gossip Girl. People keep telling me he is a better actor than what we got though I never saw his work onstage, and I actually liked his last scene with Karen/McPhee, probably because it wasn't sullen.
- There must be some kind of mistake. I just got my CD of Bombshell and they don't list Christian Borle for any of the music. WTF? Is Mark Shaiman Borle's alter ego?
- No, he's not better onstage, acting wise. But the voice, when you hear it live, carries him. He's got a great set of pipes.
- Bellhop at R428, there is no dignity in complaining about problematic material on set. It is highly unprofessional. Actors who are pros and have problems with a scene address it with an EP after table read, or if they are smaller problems or suggestions, privately with the writer on set. Rolling one's eyes and mocking a scene for the amusement of the crew is unprofessional and demoralizing. Similarly, writers who have been forced by the network to insert crazy and bizarre story elements and dialogue against their wishes do not badmouth the script to amuse the crew or cast or engage in any false bonding, because while fun in the short term, it is demoralizing in the long term.
- Oh, Not Marc. Really? (rolls eyes) I don't know what sets you've been on but I've been on plenty and it happens. It doesn't happen often but it does sometimes, even on sets with generally good material. It's a human reaction to a clunker.
R429, the "showstopper" Hilty performs in the penultimate episode isn't in Bombshell but it has been written by Tom and Julia.
- Thanks Bellhop. Sounds intriguing.
- I'm an actor and I could make Jimmy work. There is a level of likability that is necessary for television no matter what the role is. Jeremy doesn't have it. At all.
As for the drop in ratings, you have to wonder how much lower it can go. Cold it possibly hit 500K by the Finale?
- I think at this stage ratings doesn't even matter anymore.
Agree about Jeremy's portrayal of jimmy not helping, but I don't think anyone would make jimmy that likeable the way he's been written.
Bellhop please give us some scoop on how daisy ends up taking at the Diva role from Ana. Is it Derek related?
Oh and I also think it will be Kyle who dies.
I also prefer Karen and Derek together. There's real chemistry, and Ivy and Derek are better as just friends. Also is everyone forgetting how Derek treated Ivy in s1? She needs some self respect. At least Derek has always treated Karen with respect - well until he found out about kimmy anyway, lol
- I don't think it's bad acting on Jordan's part as much as it was bad casting. The key to casting an anti-hero (I'm not sure how else to categorize Jimmy, or at least what they seem to want Jimmy to be) is to cast someone innately likable. Someone you want to forgive, no matter what horrible things they do. This is Casting 101.
Jordan's looks don't translate well to the screen, to be charitable about it. There's something mean-spirited and almost feral about his look that is a turn off. Not his fault, just the genetic cards he was dealt. He has a good face for the stage.
- Very well put R441. I watched the most recent episode last night and I was wondering what it was. You nailed it. Jordan is very good on stage. But yes, there is something off putting about his looks on screen.
- As a straight woman, I could tell you I would do the character of Derek over ugly Jimmy any day of the week.
- Derek yes!!!
- I think Jeremy Jordan is a good looking guy, but Jimmy's personality just overshadows the hotness, which is a shame
- I didn't understand the Christian Borle song to Hilty that Liza lip-synced for two reasons:
1. He refers to Ivy as his best friend. Isn't that Grace Adler?; and
2. If he can write that whole song in an afternoon, what does he need Grace Adler for to write lyrics that are no less obvious?
- One thing I've always wondered. Why did Tom never get Ivy a main role in one of his many other broadway shows if he thinks she's so talented. Didn't even need to be a lead. I don't buy her being stuck in the ensemble this long
- Wasn't Tom responsible for Ivy being in (and returning to) Heaven on earth, or whatever that shitshow they've got running on Bway at the moment?
- Yeah but she was just an ensemble member!
- Maybe there's no eye-rolling on-set over the script because most of them are too stupid to realize how bad it is.
- All I'll say, R440, is that Ana remains with The Hit List.
- I'll miss Savannah Wise. Here's hoping she gets something high profile soon.
- [quote]I'll miss Savannah Wise. Here's hoping she gets something high profile soon.
And hopefully she'll stay far away from Tyler Maynard! He'll steal her blind.
The cast, management,stage crew and front of house staff at the now closed ON A CLEAR DAY
Jessie Mueller's fur wrap at Tyler's apartment
- Steven Spielberg offered me the role of Eileen, but I turned it down!
- [quote]I still can't believe we're like 25 episodes and I still have absolutely no idea why Karen ever wanted to be a broadway actress in the first place, it's crazy!
What reason would she need? I don't see that there needs to be any more explanation beyond "I want to be a Broadway actress."
- Did they ever really explain what the beef is between Derek and Tom? Other than Derek being a dick all the time? I can't remember why they act like former lovers.
- They did explain the nature of the fight but it was boring and I forget what it was about. Which is like most fights people have, when you think about it.
- Tyler Maynard and Savannah Wise graduated from the same Cincinnati Performing Arts University. I don't know if they were there at the same time, certainly not the same graduating year.
Maybe that's why they're spotted together.
- Just saw stills of upcoming opening night of Bombshell episode. They gave Ivy a better wig except now she really looks more like Jayne Mansfield than Monroe.
Hey! maybe Daisy is Ivy's standby! Am I warm bellhop?
- Ivy looks more like Jayne.
- No, R459, Daisy doesn't end up in Bombshell, she ends up in The Hit List.
- Ivy looks more like a junior high school wrestler dressed up as Jayne.
- Which one is Daisy? Is she that fat girl who played Wednesday in The Addams Family musical? Karen's roommate? Is her name Daisy?
- Tee hee, R463. Daisy's the hot looking redhead who accused Derek of sexual harrassment in the season 2 opener.
- I've got a juicy story about Ana/Daisy/Karen after tomorrow night's episode.
- One forgets it's now on Saturdays.
- Luckily our DVRs don't forget.
- Shame on Josh Safran and the show for not putting up an In Loving Memory of James Pollard at the conclusion of last Saturday's episode. He was the beloved key grip who worked on more than a hundred TV shows and movies. I was incorrect earlier in the thread-he actually passed away the day after the scenes with Tom/Ivy outside Joe Allens (which stands in for Table 46) were shot.
- Bellhop, looking forward to the story… do you know if there’s a story (juicy or dull, I’m not fussy) about why this scene showed up in the actual episode, but lost Ivy along the way?
- **JOE ICONIS SPILLS THE BEANS ON "THE GOODBYE SONG" AND PREMIERES IT ON BROADWAYWORLD 2 WEEKS BEFORE THE SMASH EPISODE IT APPEARS IN IS SET TO AIR!**
- No, R469, I don't know the story about why that bit appears to have been cut. Part of Liza Minnelli's song got cut, too-an up-tempo part of it. The story I've got after tonight's episode is about something getting scrapped.
Reminder-it's on at 8 pm tonight. Wasn't it on at 9 last Saturday?
- Was the thing that was scrapped any hint that Karen's isn't right and pure and justified about any whine or whim? Because that's merely par for course.
I'm also not getting what "new direction" is perfect for Hit List, when LCD screens weren't. Are we now going retro-Broadway as the new cool?
- Thanks, Bellhop. I’m disappointed to hear that about Liza’s song, though I think the finished product worked well enough without an uptempo.
Is it usual for a show to have this much scrapped stuff? Rodriguez has talked about the first episode being 4-5 minutes over, Jordan implies there was a whole alternate number being considered in lieu of “Broadway Here I Come”, Hilty has said that a whole number of hers got cut from the fourth episode.
With the episode budgets as high as they are, I think Safran needed to run a tighter ship, not shooting full musical perfs just to toss them away. One of last season’s aborted songs even made its way into promo clips (that thing of Karen and Ivy in green 50s-type sweaters circling each other warily), though I guess the loss of that is on Rebeck. I guess many RL musicals have proven to us the folly of thinking it's easy to look at a show and think "this song does or does not thematically advance the story", but it seems so wasteful.
- Kat and Krysta were meant to have a big Hit List duet in tonight's ep apparently, and that's been cut. It seemed like a big production number too. I'm loving the Hit List songs this season.
- bellhop, do people actually call Katherine McPhee Kat (to her face)?
- You beat me to it, R474! Tee hee. Yeah, it's a song called "I'm Not Sorry." A diva sing-off song. It was shot with Krysta and Kat and was then cut from the episode because Krysta, ummm, absolutely blew Kat off the stage with her vocal pyrotechnics and all around fierceness and that was a big no-no. BUT it was too good a song to lose so they re-shot it weeks later with Mara (Daisy) and Kat. And, hmmm, Kat manages to come off much better because Mara, competent performer that she is, simply doesn't rock it like Krysta does.
- God, I think the Hit List songs are utter crap. The Bombshell numbers sound like the best of Kander and Ebb compared to Hit List.
- is it on at 8 or 9 tonite? my program guide still says 9 with the voice at 8.
- Bellhop, that's not the reason the song was cut at all. You're spouting complete bullshit.
- Thank you, R479. I can also confirm that the song was not cut for that reason. Not at all. But it's a very good song and it is used later in the season.
R475 Yes she goes by Kat.
The uptempo part of Liza's song was scrapped for an unimportant reason. As is obvious, the song works the way it was broadcast.
R473 it's very difficult to explain the rules any television show, much less Smash, operates by. There are a lot of cooks at the pot, and the showrunner is only one of them.
- I bet bellhop wishes his #### was as big as his ego!
- So then... why are we denying KR a song at this juncture, when the song dynamic should inform and be informed by the Ana/Karen friendship? It just sounds, really, like they want us to believe that giving the Diva a bigger part is entirely down to Derek being a jealous bastard, and poor Karen has to suffer through him so she can shine in the show that is All About Her. ?
- Thanks you R481 for not using the actual word. We're all pretty innocent around here.
- I love Krysta and she's definitely fierce and she does have a good voice, but it isn't all that special imo. But just my opinion obviously. And it's all relative because I think all the singers on Smash are super talented.
- I doubt It'll be as simple as Derek giving Ana/The Diva more songs because of his jealously, but I could totally see that Karen would think that given what happened in the last ep, and maybe Derek lets her think that.
- SMASH on at 8 tonight, folks. Starting in about two minutes.
- Oh good Lord. You know someone's getting shot with that gun before it's all over, right? Talk about bad soap opera.
- R487, I am glad to say you are incorrect.
There are no guns shot, or even witnessed, this season on Smash.
- [quote]As for the drop in ratings, you have to wonder how much lower it can go. Cold it possibly hit 500K by the Finale?
LOL, I wouldn't doubt it at this point. I think it's obvious NBC doesn't expect to get much in the way of ratings for the show anymore since it doesn't even bother to show previews for the next week's episode.
And don't you just love how Jimmy acts like an ass to Karen, after which SHE apologizes to HIM as if she's the one who did something wrong? Amazing.
Finally, as to who will get killed and who will get pregnant, my feeling is that after Jimmy gets rubbed out by the drug dealer, Karen will find out (in the last episode, of course) that she's carrying his love child. Gag-inducing, yes, but I'm thinking a real possibility.
- Oh, thank God, R488. That is, indeed, a relief.
- I know I'm in the (very small) minority here, but I kind of like this season more than the first.
- I say Bombshell will flop and close
Ivy will get pregnant
Isn't Jimmy getting killed a little too obvious? What about the annoying stage manager over at BS? Or Eileen? Surely Huston wouldn't mind taking a bullet for Smash?
- I turned it on at 9, eastern, and The Voice was on instead.
- Not Marc, what's with the Karen character assassination in this episode? S1 Karen wouldn't have acted out like that. It's so infuriating. As if Jimmy being terrible wasn't bad enough, he's dragging Karen down with him.
- It was on at 8
What's weird is my dvr is set to record first run Smash eps and it didn't record until 9 when The Voice started.
Good heavens! So glad I was home to see Ivy Lynn play her first preview and bare her moles!
Has McPhee dabbled in botox? I'm sorry but her face was not this expressionless last season. Unless she's just embarrassed and, really, who can blame her?
- First episode all season that was any good. It was really good, actually.
- Interesting that I seemed to be the only one who thought it was a good episode, especially Ivy and her uncertainty about the nude scene.
And it's just human nature for Jimmy and Karen to think Derek is cutting her numbers out of spite, when in fact, he's making the show a big hit eventually headed to Broadway.
- Thank God they did that number out in the house at the top of Act II. Sure, they had to give up a dozen or so prime seats to do it. But if they hadn't, the intermission would have been 16 whole minutes! That's unheard of for a first preview.
- All Jeremy Jordan does is smirk and lose control. He's awful in this.
Ashley Spencer, sick of the dutch oven
- Who played JFK? I would rather have seen him naked.
- Tom's dream was hilarious... especially Ellis riding shotgun.
- NBC must really hate the show now, if they not only moved it to Saturday night but won't even give it a fixed air time.
- THat was Julius Overdone as JFK. Can't believe he would cross the pond for this.
- I liked this episode. Kind of short on new songs and Bombshell looks really bad (so does Hit List) but I still liked it.
- I liked it, too, especially Andy standing up to Jimmy. Best scene of the night (I also want to top Andy but I digress).
Christian Borle jumping out of the bed in his booty shorts was nice. Hot little ass he's got on him (there I go again -- can't help myself, I'm a top).
Wonder how much of a TV career Borle and Hilty can expect to get out of this show? Bad as it may be, they've both given terrific performances.
- I absolutely stand by the reason that "I'm Not Sorry" was cut. I sense a few of you, including Not Marc, are trying to do damage control when there's no need now. The show is toast.
The fact is Krysta completely overshadowed Kat on "I'm Not Sorry." Safran was all too aware of that. They cut the song from the episode. They re-shot it for the next-to-last episode when Daisy ends up with the Diva role. The director of the episode, Mimi Leder, was already pissed off big-time because she was under worse time restrictions to shoot an episode this season than she was under last season. But it wasn't her decision to cut this, anyway.
Believe Not Marc and the spinmeisters if you want. I never claim to know everything going on behind the scenes but this particular incident was a biggie and it was common knowledge among the crew.
- So Daisy ends up playing the Diva role after Ana is killed? Wow.
I think it's interesting how the show treats Bombshell like a bit of a joke while presenting Hit List as high art.
- Those nine songs are probably really good, right? Nine in one day? Quality.
But, in fact, this is just more characters in service of plot, so she could make the coke assumption... the coke she "found" wearing a jacket she didn't need to wear since she was right in front of her apartment.
In that 8pm slot: they found a way to put a bigger stake in its heart and twist it. Saturday at 8pm? That's TV producer talk for "F--- you for losing me so much money, you amateur no-talents."
Fun fact: the NYTimes Arts & Leisure has one columnist, tirelessly covering every theater story in the city at all levels. They didn't show him running out of SHIT LIST and over to The Duplex to write up Maria Gentile's shift.
More hyper-reality: Ivy's overbearing, dramatic, scene-stealing mother apparently got the message and uncharacteristically stayed completely In the background on the first public preview of her heralded return to Broadway. Yeah. Right.
SHIT LIST is headed straight to Broadway! And it's just like the Marilyn story! Which Derek used to direct and the SHIT LIST writers don't mind that he turned their show into the one he quit.
Derek makes a massive structural change... like, the opening of the show? Without discussing it with the authors.
That "fix" in BOMBSHELL Cousin Debbie came up with solved what problem how, exactly? Something in the show makes the intermission too long? Lucy! 'Splain!
Don'cha love how they decided a great way to open the second act of a musical about Marilyn Monroe was a song about Stanislavsky technique.
Is there any comedy in BOMBSHELL? Or SHIT LIST? Or are they both dreary, sad, preachy, droning bores?
- R508: Despite your long rant, last night's episode was pretty damn good.
- No, it wasn't. It stank. Like all the other episodes.
- I think Bellhop's value-added details have the ring of truth, and especially so considering he (?) gave them before we see an episode where the production decided not to film a note of Ana singing "the new Diva songs she has allegedly mastered". I understand that production can't get it all in the can, but we certainly haven't shied away from every note of Karen's vocalises all season long.
And I think it might be a mistake to downplay Rodriguez. Because when I checked earlier this week, KR had the highest-ranked Smash iTunes single in “Reach for Me”, weeks after that episode has aired. Which indicates to me that there is an audience to hear KR sing original songs, surely it cannot all be Andrew McMahon fans buying the single. I hope she can build some interest for after Smash ends.
- Bellhop, are you aware that the episode came in 10 mins long? Are you aware that the producers and the network asked to see the full episode so that everyone could take a look and weigh in? Since the episode was that long, what would you have cut from the show? Should there have been 5 mins less Ivy and Bombshell? The fact that the number came out speaks to the real issue. There was better, more compelling material with the Bombshell crew than the petty fight storyline between Karen and Ivy.
PS - I'm sure the crew loved to spin theories about why decisions were made but that doesn't make them right.
- So the whole Amanda/Diva|Karen/Ana thing really is a commentary on Karen/Ivy? How far does this go? And cut with the "petty" carp, thanks, they trashed Ivy's character first season and ignored her half of this one because of that shit.
I think they need to work on making things like this more explicit, because I'm just a viewer, and based on what I see what I conclude is often along the lines of "ooh, no one can show up McPhee, of course they had to go." And by the time that's a conclusion I draw, it doesn't matter what the original intention was.
- "There was better, more compelling material with the Bombshell crew than the petty fight storyline between Karen and Ivy."
do you mean between Karen and Ana?
- Yes, I meant Karen/Ana in that last sentence. Thanks, r514.
- Bellhop, you mentioned that Hilty will get that showstopper in the penultimate episode...will McPhee have anymore songs to herself or are there only duets the rest of the way for her?
- It's really sad how NBC has completely ditched the show now. They don't even bother making previews for the next episode anymore.
- I actually get how moving "Dig Deep" to a starting position in the audience saves time. The crew is backstage setting up the number that will follow DD, while the cast is minimalizing it up in the aisles.
As for the charge that Derek has basically grafted the theme of Bombshell onto Hit List and it took until the almighty NYT pointed it out for anyone to notice, I don't think this can solely be laid on Derek. Though JLM's claim that "Derek has constructed a human plane out of dancers" may be intended to convey the fact that Derek is biting even any barely good idea that Tom has had, after raising a stink about his holy Bombshell choreography.
However, Derek wrote none of the show, therefore if there are any overtones that scream "Marilyn" more than "generic starlet", they almost would have to come from the lyrics, and thus Jimmy. Who has been shown as having no opinions or thoughts about Marilyn Monroe outside of applauding Karen dressed as her, which really seems to stretch a point. Outside chance is Kyle, who has at least seen Bombshell, but considering how useless he was painted until they decided there should be book scenes 2 weeks ago, I can't really see him informing a lot of the lyrics either.
- In reply to post 511 saying that Krysta's Reach For Me was the highest ranking hit list song on iTunes, or sold most. That's completely false. Actually the other way round. Rankings go like this, with their iTunes single peak ....
Broadway Here I Come (Jeremy) - 62 overall
Rewrite This Story. ( Jeremy and Kat) - 71 overall
Heart Shaped Wreckage (Jeremy and Kat) - 90 overall
I Can't Let Go (JHud) - 95 overall
Caught in the Storm (Kat) - 105 overall
I Heard Your Voice in a Dream (Jeremy) - 121 overall
Some Boys (Kat) - 131 overall
Reach For Me (Krysta) - 221 overall
Dancing on My Own (Megan) - 330
This Will Be Our Year - 477 overall
They Just Keep Moving the Line (Megan) - 485 overall
Then the move to sat so we can probably disregard all iTunes sales from now on lol, sad :(
Original - 450 overall
I've probs missed some sorry. I also think Heart Shaped Wreackage may have sold the most overall, cos it did well the 2nd week too and hung around for ages, as did BHIC and Rewrite This Story.
I'm surprised Megan's Dancing On My Own did so badly. I liked that cover. Then again, I can see that someone like Megan singing a pop song will not appeal to the public generally as much as kat singing a pop song, given their styles.
- I don't wish unemployment on anyone, but jeez, bellhop you'll be lucky to get more jobs on TV sets if this is how discreet you are about spilling stuff. Way to treat the people that gave you a job. You're indiscreet about everyone, and clearly have an ego that outweighs all the characters in Smash altogether.
- [quote]I actually get how moving "Dig Deep" to a starting position in the audience saves time. The crew is backstage setting up the number that will follow DD, while the cast is minimalizing it up in the aisles.
Intermissions are used as changeovers, where all scenery exclusive to Act I is struck (and usually flown) and Act II is brought into the wings. Given. They never explained this to the TV audience, but whatever.
But that Stanislavsky number was maybe ninety seconds long. If the changeover on BOMBSHELL took sixteen and a half minutes on the night of the first preview, who cares? It was just more false-feeling, manufactured "tension" to illustrate everyone's frustration. Weak.
- We saw Julian Ovendon (JFK) in the Donmar revival of GRAND HOTEL in London. He was hot. He also played the son in the UK mystery series FOYLE'S WAR. A few yeara ago he was in the NY cast of the musical DEATH TAKES A HOLIDAY, although he left early due to vocal problems.
- As I understand it the positioning of Dig Deep and Public Relations no longer even makes sense.
Public Relations was supposed to show Marilyn dissatisfied with Hollywood and 'retiring' and relocating to New York, where she studied at the Actors Studio around 1955, leading to Dig Deep.
Plus, the whole silly plane number was supposed to be the big opening of the second act.
Still, best episode of the season so far. If they'd all been like this, they might not be on Saturday nights in a moving target timeslot.
- Are most of you posters in the theatre business? You seem to be able to follow the plots and story changes of both shows better than me.
All I know about HitList is that a girl steals music from her boyfriend and becomes a star. I have no idea how the Diva fits into any of it. The rest of the plot escapes me. And I couldn't begin to compare it to Bombshell as the NYT review did.
I have a clearer picture of Bombshell since it was covered more extensively in season 1, but I certainly couldn't tell you the order of the scenes or songs like many of you are able to do.
Maybe I've just been zoning out this season. But I have to wonder if the general public is as invested in two musicals as people posting here. I personally follow the relationships of the characters more than the musicals. Though I enjoyed watching the process of creating the musical in season 1.
The HitList scenes are dreary, dark, and depressing. Are theaters really like that in New York?
- I was thinking last night how if this were the real world, Bombshell would probably be the bigger hit of the two, if it hit. It's got more mainstream appeal and long term that's what is needed for bums in seats. Drives the theater purists crazy but that's why they do these things: to make money. Say what you will about the sugary pudding that is Phantom or the weeper that is Les Mis, but to make long term money in the game you have to appeal to the suburbs and tourists. Bombshell seems the likelier candidate for that since it's a more classic Broadway show.
- 525, I agree 100%.
- I wonder if they will bring Bombshell to Broadway, or some version of it. There's a lot of effort already completed. My guess is if they are an announcement is made at the same time as the cancellation. Seems kind of counterintuitive but it's a platform to get some buzz. You want 'Bombshell to live even as SMASH dies', right out of the gate, not 'Producers to stage musical at center of failed TV show' a couple of months later.
- I've never liked the way Ivy is always made to be the second-best choice between her and Karen. First, she's passed over for BOMBSHELL in favor of Karen (and only has the role now because Karen ditched it to go do HIT LIST) and even where it comes to Derek, who's clearly in love with Karen but turns back to Ivy because it's clear to him that Karen will never be interested in him (even though Ivy, it appears, is okay with that).
Granted, it's just a TV show but I have always felt the role of Ivy is kind of a thankless one, especially given the reality that Megan Hilty is every bit as talented, if not more so, as Katherine McPhee, who I don't think would've outshone anybody else in the BOMBSHELL ensemble had this been real life. (It's the exact same way I felt about how the writers on GLEE used to push Lea Michele's Rachel as being the "mega-talented, so much better than everybody else in the room" star at McKinley High when clearly there were other people in the club who were every bit as good and better.)
Btw, though she's rumored to be quite the diva in real life, I must say I do think Debra Messing is a very good actress and always delivers in this show. Can't imagine it going on without her (if, by some miracle, it would).
- What you're describing, R528, is a perfect example of "idiot plotting," the idea that we're supposed to think that Karen is in any way competition for Ivy as Marilyn. You don't like it. I don't like it. And it makes no sense.
Hilty is so much better than McPhee, it's impossible to believe Derek is deaf/dumb/blind -- or even thinking with the wrong head -- enough not to pick Ivy.
It's a big dramatic flaw and it's been there from jump.
- I actually prefer Karen to Ivy as Marilyn. I think her voice suits the Marilyn vulnerability more. Both Hilty and McPhee are super talented in their own way, but what I like about them most on Smash is their different styles. Megan has the more belty traditional broadway voice whilst mcphee's voice has a more beautiful tone to it, imo. That said, I'm glad Karen is now with Hit List because its pop leanings are perfect for mcphee, and wouldn't suit Megan's style at all.
- I still don't understand people who say Megan looks like Marilyn, because she just doesn't other than being a natural blonde and busty. Heck even her body shape is different. You look at pictures and Megan is a lot heavier looking, and I'm not saying Megan is big, not at all, but Marilyn was actually very slim, but curvy with it. I think Mcphee actually looks way more like Marilyn. Sure McPhee is probs to tall and not curvy enough, but facially they're really similar, and they have the same nose! JMO obviously
- In my case, R531, people who are blonde look more alike to me than different. It's kind of like the way some perceive all black people as looking alike. So in that sense, Hilty = Marilyn to me.
However, she also is closer to Marilyn's size, at least as far as I can remember it, than the wispier McPhee is.
Plus I'm just not in love with McPhee as a singer or an actor. I'd much rather Hilty play the part, and having the plot center on which one of them is Marilyn today made me lose interest last season.
- So because Megan/Ivy is blonde is automatically means she looks more like Marilyn? Ridiculous
I agree with 531. I've always thought McPhee looked more like Marilyn.
- Yeah, I had a hard time imagining someone with Hilty's frame would win the part if there were talented alternatives. She's good and last night was an enjoyable character to watch, as opposed to her usual sulking and neediness.
- the only time McPhee has ever come alive in this show is when she put on the blonde wig and played Marilyn. Many actors are quiet, reserved and almost catatonic offstage but the minute they put on a costume and hit the stage they become someone else and they shine. That's what I loved about Karen. Now that she's in Hit List she's lost a lot of her appeal and comes off really, really stiff.
Hilty is extremely talented but she's more Mansfield than Monroe. And she's a caricature while McPhee had the vulnerability and shyness. Ivy is acting Marilyn. Karen is/was Marilyn.
I'm much more interested in the Bombshell stuff which we're seeing less and less of and it's a shame. We followed the journey through auditions, workshop, out of town tryout and now that it's FINALLY on broadway we know very little about what's really going on. Who's the new DiMaggio? Who's Ivy's understudy? All missed opportunities.
- That's because they split the road and introduced Hit List, which they then failed to engage us with at all. It's just a series of rock sounds and cliched dance numbers.
- I think kat/Karen suits hit list a lot better, even though I liked her as Marilyn. I think her best performance was in Rewrite This Story and Original. She felt like Amanda and not Karen
- Google "wikia hit list smash" ..... Someone's transcribed the plot of Hit List from everyone we know so far, including kyles board last week. I kinda love the plot even tho it doesn't break any new ground or anything. It's like Shakespeare tragedy meets West Side Story meets Skins meets Titantic meets One Tree Hill or smtg, lol!
I'm interested to see who dies. Whether its Jesse or Karen, or both.
- Jesse or Amanda sorry!
Maybe The Diva ends up killing herself? That could work too!
My guess is Jesse though. It would be Amanda's price of fame.
- I'm gonna guess it's the Hit List grumpy smurf because this is basically Rent and because - big assumption given how rotten the writing is - in anticipation of a third season (LOL OMG) but back when they thought it was possible would they maybe have been setting up Ivy and Derek and Karen again? Ivy and Derek are getting something on, a 'widowed' Karen might we the fly in the ointment.
- This show is cancelled, discussing it is pointless.
- People still talk about the deceased at his funeral, though.
- I was talking about who dies in hit list! I still think it will be Kyle who dies in the show.
- I woulda thought Ana but Krysta posted a pic of her and kat filming together right at the end of s2 filming. So I think Kyle too. Maybe Kyle's death can redeem Jimmy somehow. One can hope!
- Oh, sorry... no idea who dies in Hit List. I don't think it will be Goblinweed. Maybe Derek then? I have a feeling, again assuming everything was planned on a basis 3 would go forward, that they'd have to get rid of a major role in the theatrical process. You couldn't just keep the same gang of actors and director and producer etc. doing shows together forever. I mean, it worked for the Partridge Family, but obviously they were far more talented.
- R519, thanks for the intel, but did you check the pop charts? the Smash singles have been charting there also. And I didn’t mean “ever”, though I can see how that is unclear now that I look at my phrasing, but “at this point in time”.
- What's always concerned me most about Smash is that a lot of people appear to define their understanding of Marilyn, and thus who should play the part, based on what the show tells us. Ie, that Karen IS Marilyn and Marilyn IS vulnerability.
When really that was one of two options, as most recently explicated in The Two Scripts. Ivy has vulnerability, but also isn't entirely innocent and knows what she wants and goes after it. Smash had me reading a bio, that's who a compilation of every biographer ever thing she was.
IMHO, as far as "vulnerability" goes though, I'm more concerned about height. It's hard to get a sense of the poor little thing when she's towering over JFK.
- [R546] yeah, but the results would have been the same for pop charts in terms of ranking, because the pop position is just the pop song sales in iTunes, not overall.
Reach For Me hasn't done as well as most of the other Hit List songs which is probably due to the song itself not being as catchy imo, and also because Krysta is not as well known as someone like Jeremy or Kat, as well as the fact that Kat McPhees voice probably has more wide appeal for people buying the singles.
Overall Dont Forget Me is the biggest selling Smash song
- The latest episode is the best episode of Smash so far as far as the Bombshell plot line goes. Could care less about Hit List although it was a nice moment with Julia and Derek during rehearsal and Derek reworking elements of telling the story. That is what, for me, is exciting about watching this.
I would love to see as much of Bombshell as they can fit in in the remaining episodes of the season.
The Ivy/Karen as Marilyn debate continues. I love Ivy as Marilyn and it is interesting that I do see and hear the vulnerability in Ivy's performance while there are still so many who do not. I guess if you prefer Karen, you may not be able to see Ivy's performance for all it is because you just don't like Ivy in the part. Cause it's not that those things aren't there.
- Krysta Rodriguez is fucking terrible. She makes McPhee seem positively talented by comparison. You will never here from her again once this show is over.
My god, I don't think I've seen a TV show with such incompetent casting in years.
- R547, I agree with you, but the problem there is that last season, the major amount of the “Marilyn is”… pronouncements were given to – the director. Within show-world, we are expected to believe that Derek is “the expert”, and thus his opinions should be law, they even back that up with his autocratic behavior in the finale. He’s never wrong. Every episode where he has some “complaint” about Karen, ends him eating his words. “I so sowwy, Karen! you ARE sexy!” Etc. If Tom got pronouncements, they were “Ivy IS Marilyn!”, and we’re just now seeing what that means, but no one ever presented Tom to us as infallible. Derek even came up with “Marilyn never tried” while they were telling us he Knows All, which is so ridiculous and Karen-propping if one knows a jot about Monroe, that one almost falls down laughing at him saying it.
The only conclusion you can come to is the one that Safran is playing out, I dare say brilliantly, this year, with “Derek has that opinion because he’s obsessed with getting his leg over Karen.” Because Marilyn pretzeled herself with “the trying”. Why would he not say “Marilyn made it look as if she never tried/effortless”, unless he’s a.), ignorant; b.), dazzled and trying to cram Karen as a square peg into an, ahem, round hole? This gets messed up with the fact that some people do prefer “vulnerable Marilyn”, but they’re even playing out your point with Hilty’s interpretation of the scene with JFK. McPhee played it as victimized little flower. Hilty plays it as you describe. The whole "I decide when to take my clothes off" bit brings it home.
- [quote]Smash had me reading a bio, that's who a compilation of every biographer ever thing she was.
Which one is that 547 I would love to read it. All this has aroused my curiosity about how Marilyn really was. I enjoyed anything I saw her in in the past but never knew much about her other than the things always talked about. But now I would like a better perspective and I am really enjoying this season 2 portrayal. Loved Ivy's decision about when she took her clothes off. And loved that she never told anyone what she was thinking. Makes me sad that the show was not more like this all along.
- [quote]Krysta Rodriguez is fucking terrible. She makes McPhee seem positively talented by comparison. You will never here from her again once this show is over.
You think she was bad here, you should have seen that fat thing in THE ADDAMS FAMILY, the musical. Her 'boyfriend' in the show was SMASH ensemble member Wesley (Tay-Tay) Taylor and their chemistry was zero.
Nathan Lane and Bebe Neuwirth
- To me megans portrayal of Marilyn has always been an overblown caricature. Says nothing about the talent of Megan Hilty because she's clearly talented and a great musical theatre performer, but the Marilyn Monroe I know from reading up on her (and I have read a lot about Marilyn. She's always fascinated me) just isn't the Marilyn that Megan portrays. She just plays her too BIG! I think Kat McPhees more understated Marilyn is much more realistic in my own opinion, whilst I don't think either are perfect Marilyns. And don't get me started on both of their Marilyn voices. Both pretty terrible.
- R527. I love the 'fake' Broadway cast album of BOMBSHELL which includes a synopsis like it was it was a real, honest to God show. I wish that some producer would bring it to Broadway. There was talk of it when SMASH first premiered last season but that died down when the show went south.
"Don't Forget Me" is my favorite song in the score.
- Oh, God... one of those irrationally pro Ivy TWOPers is linking back here on spoilers. That SMASH board is Scivytology.
One of them even posted her theory that in real life, based on some interview, Megan Hilty was giving advice to Katherine McPhee on acting etc. and McPhee was too haughty to accept it.
Talk about a tinhat.
- [quote] I guess if you prefer Karen, you may not be able to see Ivy's performance for all it is because you just don't like Ivy in the part.
Sounds like the TWOP board for sure. With an utter lack of irony.
- 552 - My favourite biography was "The Many Lives of Marilyn Monroe" by Sarah Churchwell. I'm post-modern by preference, and I love that she takes all the other biographies as a starting point, and tracks consistencies and biases. Net result is searching for common truths and what Marilyn means for the biographers and public - the lenses through which we view her.
- R520, I've already got a job on another television show, thanks for your concern. I won't be spilling anything on that particular show, though, because I actually respect and like the showrunner. Josh Safran is an elitist, misogynistic, nasty piece of shit who had no use for anybody on the set who he didn't think was worthy of attention. And he ran Smash totally into the ground, enjoyable as the final episodes turned out. Although that's due to Michael Morris and the hardworking cast (yes, even Kat).
To the poster who asked about Ivy's showstopper in Episode #216 aka the penultimate episode-Karen does not get overlooked at the expense of Ivy. Like, that really was ever going to happen?
No Marc and that other anonymous spinmeister: you can try to convince yourselves and others that Krysta/Kat's "I'm Not Sorry" was cut for time but we do know the real truth, don't we? Or perhaps you're noth further out of the loop than you thought.
- I think Bellhop might be one of the most unpleasant people ive ever encountered.
- R556, since we're opening that can of worms, there are “Karentology” boards out there, trust me. Places where every critic or reviewer who has ever said anything less than glowing about McPhee is now placed on the site's very own “Hit List”. Calls to action to flood the writer's article comments sections, Twitters, etc., in protest to favorable Ivy/Hilty comments, and bury them under a flood of McPhee/Karen praise. Because Matt Mitovich included a comment about Karen’s plot in the middle of the response to a request for an Ivy spoiler, they claim that Mitovich “is sticking it to the Ivy fans because he’s really a Karen fan”. I shit you not.
- The truth, Bellhop, is that the number was cut because there wasn't time to fit everything in. You decided to avoid the question of what 4 mins should have been cut from the episode so you could jam in this "amazing" number. Krysta has had moments to shine and she has another solo number coming up, doesn't she? She's a firecracker of attitude on screen. There was no desire to hide that. That's why she was cast!
The fact that most people are crediting this episode as the best of the season and you're still claiming that the extra footage was driven by fear that McPhee couldn't handle being in a duet is crazy. Karen and Ivy have a big duet in next week's episode and in the finale. Remember the premiere duet with Jennifer Hudson with Katherine? Or the duets with Jeremy Jordan? The show aired all of those but somehow it's Krysta next to Kat that scared the producers into cutting the number? Right. That's just silliness.
Your immaturity, small perspective and lack of critical thinking skills are showing, Bellhop.
- Omg who are some of these people who post here? Krysta fat? It's pathetic.
I think she's been a great addition to the show. I don't think her voice holds up compared to megan and kat but she's got some spunk with is perfect for Ana and The Diva, and she contrasts well with Karen. It's just a shame their screen time is limited because the showrunner and writers decided to destroy Karen by pairing her with horrible jimmy.
- I'm not a theater person particularly. I like enjoyable tv and I enjoy great singing which is why I love smash. The talent of Megan Hilty and Kat McPhee and Jeremy Jordan etc is amazing. It's pretty sad when I read all these posts from these broadway snobs who are so quick to bring down kat McPhee's talents, when she has a fantastic voice. No she isn't a theater performer, and yes she has more of a pop styling, but the girl can sing, and imo, she's had some of the best moments of smash vocally. Don't Forget Me was a showstopper, and some of her other songs, like Some Boys and Run just show what a gorgeous voice she has. You honestly think theater veterans and experts like Wittman and Shaiman and producers like Neil Meron would have hired her if she didn't have the voice. Just COME ON!!
- Oooooh scoop on Karen and Ivy's finale duet please? Is it an original or cover? Or maybe a reprise of LMBYS? That would be awesome! Give us a clue please!!
- I have a question for the insider who isn't bellhop. I know it's difficult because they've followed different paths this season, but I think the biggest shame is the lack of megan and kat scenes. I love their chemistry together and the Karen and Ivy scenes last season was always good value! How come more effort hasn't been made to pair up Karen and Ivy again this season? Was it a conscious decision or did the plotlines just not allow it? I think the show has suffered because of it.
- I love that rabid soap opera threads get shut down, but this one stays open.
- R563 = Krysta
- R567 I wish I could just down some of the rabid Hilty/Ivy stans. They act like she's the 2nd coming! If we want to talk about proper theater talent then I'd rank Christian Borle, and eve Jeremy Jordan above her, any day.
- Alright, enough with the Was The Song Cut Because Krysta Kicked Kat's Butt? debate.
Last night was the last you saw of Richard Francis. Sorry, there will be no scene next Saturday with Eileen tossing a drink into his face. He's gone forever, along with Jennifer Hudson's, Daniel Sunjata's and (soon) Jesse L Martin's characters. The departure of Francis was no big loss because Jamey Sheridan was an arrogant shithead who actually thought he'd be made a regular cast member. The crew was happy to see the back of him. Jesse, however, was well liked by everybody but got dicked around by Safran due to salary issues and so he'll be gone in a puff of smoke, too.
- Who was responsible for the casting of J HUD out of interest? Good on paper but they did nothing with her character. What a waste of good episode time and probably money. I bet she cost a lot!
- R571 J DUD
- Thank you 558/547.
- If Debra Messing treated the crew properly, then what was it about her that made her such a diva on set? She seems really well liked by all of the other cast. In fact from interviews I've seen and read the cast all seem to have gotten on really well.
- You're wrong again, Bellhop. Richard Francis will be in next week's episode. Jesse Martin wasn't dicked around on salary. In fact, the Smash producers bent over backwards to accommodate working around the NBC drama pilot that he was cast in. Martin was never meant to be a series regular which is why NBC cast him in their other show.
- I'm one of those people who missed out on seeing this on my DVR (which is a manual one, not one tied into my cable box) because of the time change. I settled down to watch it this afternoon and wound up with "The Voice" (which I immediately deleted!) And last night's ep was not on my cable On Demand yet either. But I did find it on Hulu Plus, so I was finally able to see it.
Question: Is Leigh Conroy still in "Bombshell"? If not, is her character (MM's mom) still there?
- I'm not surprised to hear there were salary issues for JLM. I wouldn't be surprised to hear there were salary issues for everybody, as cost-cutting has just about oozed all over the season:
Why release a Bombshell soundtrack and iTunes singles weeks in advance? Seems kind of like NBC doing barn-raising trying to recoup production money in sales as they go. Why promote Leslie Odom to series regular and write Sam off for half a dozen episodes? Bernadette Peters at least strongly implied she'd have more episodes though I know we have some time, and there was also a press release that Julian Ovenden had an actual role. It does seem they might have saved some money on Daphne Rubin-Vega and Nikki Blonsky, though. At least you can conceive of a world where JHud specifically brings in viewers though it didn't happen, Daphne and Nikki are just showing off.
I think I wouldn't like to be in Safran's shoes, while he doesn't sound pleasant, I get the feeling that the show's impending and quick slide to cancellation did surprise him. Like he'd "gotten assurances" from somebody who withdrew them like a Kashan rug overnight.
- I liked last night 's episode but I would love to see a Karen-Ivy-Derek triangle. Also it was great that Hit List got a better review than Bombshell.
- I assume any assurances he got were predicated on the assumption he would turn the thing around not order full steam ahead toward the iceberg.
- R561, I guess that doesn't surprise me and it's pathetic in either instance. I'm still amazed at that no hoper on TWOP who spun her Ivy worship into theory about McPhee's real life behavior, which was ridiculous, unless the Ivy worship gives it magical mind reading powers. Even on board that can't praise Ivy/Hilty wihtout having to take a dig at McPhee, it was cheap shot.
- Jennifer Hudson
Dancer Reed Kelly (Clay Aiken's ex)
They should call this show American Idol 2
- Not Marc, are we absolutely sure that this will be canceled or is there any chance of a reprieve for next season?
I am holding out hope.. I love it even if it has gotten bad this season. Because it's all about my favorite topic B*R*O*A*D*W*A*Y!!
Even with all it's missteps (Jeremy, Hit List, random songs in the bowling alley, a Times Sq. duet with McPhee and Hilty in pilfered angel costume) SMASH is one of my favorite series.
The B*R*O*A*D*W*A*Y Troll
- If I were in NY right now, I'd want to meet up with Bellhop and Not Marc for dinner at Orso's or Joe Allen, after a show of course. My treat.
- For those of you that missed last night's episode, it's available on NBC.
- No, there is absolutely no chance of renewal. It was one of NBC's most expensive shows ever, and one of its lowest rated. It's a huge failure and embarrassment. It will be lucky to get its cancelation as a press release. They don't want to bring any more attention to it.
- Have people here who think Hilty is the better Marilyn, ever heard Marilyn Monroe sing? Hilty is way to much of a belter, So big !! & Her voice does not replicate Marilyn's breathy light singing voice. Kat has the look & the sound much closer,to the real thing.
- What a shiteous show.
- I can confirm R512 is correct, and is a genuine insider.
- And I'm enjoying your posts, whoever you are.
Some advice I want to offer to Bellhop, with love. There are two types of PAs in the entertainment industry. One type gushes at the director over his past projects, asks for pictures with castmembers, complains about the call time, gossips about other crewmembers, whines when a producer doesn't treat him as nicely as he thinks he deserves, who sneer at the script, and so on and so on. Then there is the other type of PA, who asks you what he can do to help, and then does it and gets out of the way. I will leave it to you to decide which is more successful in this business, and which is "unluckier."
- Thanks R585. I figured as much. I'll m iss it. I wonder if it would have lasted longer if Showtime had picked it up as originally planned?
The B*R*O*A*D*W*A*Y Troll
- So if and when SMASH is canceled as expected, who do we think will have a career after the show is over? Where do we think Borle, McPhee, Hilty, Mientus and Jordan will land from here? (I'm pretty sure Messing and Huston will be fine.)
- I have to laugh at the gnashing of teeth over the 'meanies' from TWoP who merely agree with 90% of the critics who think Katharine McPhee and the word 'acting' or 'emote' do not belong in the same sentence. Well imagine how all of us 'meanies' felt when that dead eyed cold fish Karen was anointed as Marilyn by a delusional Derek at the end of S1 of Smash? It was tough. And now....well.....things are turning around a bit, eh? And suddenly 'never forget....you are a stahhhhhhhhr' Karen is not only winging her way back down to planet earth but looking like a whiny, self-centered snot, maybe it is something like the way the writers wrote Ivy into a drug addled slut by the end of last season, and drove some of us crazy in the process. Seriously. Read the reviews over the course of this show. Then be honest about how McPhee's performance has been rated by nearly every critic out there. And another thing.....Hilty NEVER phoned in her performances last season no matter what shit the writers gave her as her character. She always gave it her all. McPhee looks like she's disgusted to still be with the show, and is barely even trying to give Karen anything except...wan. Beige. She looks bored.
- R591, I hope Andy Mientus has a huge career. He could hardly be more adorable. I'd watch anything he might be in.
- Not Marc or Bellhop, it seems McPhee has had quite a few numbers over the past two seasons that involve some dancing, like that Bollywood number, the Wolf number, Original, 20th Century Fox,and even Public Relations. Why has McPhee had so many more of those fully staged numbers? I expected them to divide it more evenly between the two. Will we get to see anything like that from Hilty?
- Agree R592.
R593- Andy is a sweetheart. Worked with him in a production of BIG RIVER. He played Huck.
- I've heard Kat is just a better dancer than Megan and that's why they incorporated more dancing into her numbers. One of the insiders can probably help confirm this.
- R596 - I'd be surprised if Kat were a better dancer than Megan.
- 597, I remember reading an article where Megan said she almost quit Smash because she was afraid of having to dance. But I honestly don't remember seeing her attempt any sort of dance moves in her musical numbers on Smash. She's usually just being carried/thrown around by other dancers.
- Waving one of Deb's old dead scarves, swaying to the beat....
- 600 BITCHES!