I'm very pro choice. I'm a guy, a gay guy, so it doesn't really affect me. But, I'm wondering if anyone on DL remembers what it was like before Roe v. Wade. I've heard about the back alley abortions, etc., but there must have been other ways women got rid of unwanted pregnancies that didn't involve back alleys.
If only there were some sort of information searching device where you could discover the answer to that question!
I used to do a hot water douche, then tell them we were having stewed tomatoes tonight.
Women with money could always get safe abortions. The poor ones were the ones who suffered. Watch Vera Drake.
I went to high school in the late 60's, early 70's. Girls who were worried about getting pregnant talked about going to New York for an abortion - it was legal there.
No excuse to kill babies. Women are the worst. Close your damn legs if you don't want a kid.
It is hard to believe, but at my high school they actually openly discussed non-hospital abortion techniques in our ethics class. We were given literature from Planned Parenthood which spelled out the techniques in rather graphic detail from the use of coat hangers and various to chemical cocktails to the truly horrific candy apple baby abortions. This was in Massachusetts if you are curious, I am sure more conservative states would never even thinking of openly discussing these topics in a classroom setting.
Oh, we knew the "killing babies" fruitcake would show!
Women with money could get a friendly doctor to put her in the hospital and get a D & C, the excuse would always be bleeding. Poor women got the backstreet and many died. That's what it will revert back to if Roe v Wade is overturned.
I had to look up candy apple abortions. Eeek. I would assume that a bunch of Hollywood actresses in the 50s and 60s got the 'friendly doctor' treatment, probably the studio doctor who was on the payroll and wouldn't talk.
I think your memory might be a bit augmented with urban legends mixed in.
I am glad it wasn't avaiable in 1964, or I would not be here...
My Parents were married, but not to each other...
If they wanted one, they would have had one, r11.
My sister-in-law had one done by a gynecologist in his office. They were well off, and her father had medical connections through his business, so he was able to find someone competent.
Im assuming some gynecologists had some nice black market buisnesses.
R5 is the woman hater from the feminist thread. F&F his sorry ass. He'll be banned shortly.
"Apple jelly? Will power?"
See "Leona's Sister Gerri" for a true story of how badly things could go wrong with an illegal abortion. Gerri Santoro died in 1964, and her post-mortem image accompanied the rallying cry of "Never Again" in the fight for safe, legal abortion.
See Love with the Proper Stranger with Natalie Wood and Steve McQueen.
In "Alfie" (1966), Michael Caine's character sets up a frightening illegal abortion for his married lover. That scene and the one in "Love With the Proper Stranger" give you an idea how dirty and dangerous backstreet abortions really were. No wonder so many women died.
Many, many back alley abortionists were basically improvising. Margot Kidder talks about a doctor squirting Lysol up there. It wasn't about safe, it was just about what could get the job done. Surprised they didn't just try and throw women down stairs.
My grandmother had 4 legal and 4 illegal abortions, as well as 4 healthy children. She was poor, but there were always women who supposedly "knew what to do." She always complained that her husband wouldn't wear a condom, as they were too thick in those ancient days. Many wives learned to "just say no" to their husbands. I'll bet that's one of the reasons that they used to have high VD rates, from disappointed men.
When my mom was young in the early 60s, she was sent to an aunt's house while her aunt recovered from a home abortion. Her aunt was a Midwestern farmer's wife.
My mom spent a week cooking for her uncle and taking care of her aunt's two kids while her aunt stayed in bed.
Not common, but not terribly unusual, according to my mom. When she told me that story, she said "Women used to have a lot more secrets than they do now."
I remember those: The Toni* Home Abortion Kit
My partner's older sister died from an illegal abortion.
I'm in the safe, legal and rare category. Thank God I haven't had to face that decision.
[quote] My grandmother had 4 legal and 4 illegal abortions, as well as 4 healthy children.
Do I even need to say it?
R25, Say what?
My paternal grandmother died from a back alley abortion in the 1930's. She left 7 children behind. I am certain if she had had access to the pill that she would have been more like my 30 year old niece with one child and a college degree.
Read It Was the Worst of Times by Patricia G. Miller.
It is interviews with people who were around before abortion was made legal. The women who needed them, their boyfriends, the providers, etc.
It convinced me that abortion must remain legal the same way slavery must remain illegal.
Many teenagers had to have the baby -- they disappeared for six months "To help a sick relative." The baby was put up for adoption or a relative took over.
Rich people don't care one way or another about taking away abortion rights. They can always get theirs, the way they can always get theirs whether it is education, or pensions, health care, or private transportation.
What it gives their leaders is a powerful dog-whistle, a rallying point for their fundamentalist, blue-collar supporters.
They have the votes on the Supreme Court right now. But they know if they ever overturned Roe V Wade, the poor bible thumpers would realize that the Republican party was screwing them over in every way. They aren't smart enough to realize that federally, they have the votes. The nutcases they're voting into their state government can't keep their crazy to themselves and have whipped up a generation of girls who probably didn't give a fuck one or the other about politics but when you start acting like rape babies are a gift from God, you're going to piss some women off.
Be nice to OP. He was just trying to figure out why he was born with a coat hanger in his mouth.
In at least four states -- North Dakota, South Dakota, Arkansas, Mississippi -- there is only one clinic. Many women have been forced to return to unsafe abortions.
R28 beat me to it. It's an oral history of those days and it's tragic. This book is the best argument for why abortion must remain legal.
I've listened to those that erroneously believe making abortion illegal will stop the practice. They are delusional and think that "God will provide" for the poor women who can't physically or financially afford the child. Or they preach that unmarried girls should not have sex at all. LOL
There was an interesting article on married and pregnant women from a variety of very conservative, religious backgrounds whose doctors all said that is was medically necessary for them to have abortions to save their lives. Plus their babies would not be born healthy at all. When confronted with difficult choices, many abortion foes change their mind.
In 1969 my sister got pregnant and was sent away to another state to have the baby. It was adopted and she never saw it.
In 1970 I got pregnant at 16 (first boyfriend) and he sent me to New York (alone) to have a legal abortion. I was instructed to not let anyone know why I was in New York and to meet the transportation van at a secret location. I was surprised to find that at the abortion clinic there were only about 2 teenagers out of 50 women. Most of the other women were what seemed to me as old and they were most.y married and had children already.
Abortion rights activists have considered outing women who have had abortions who want to make it illegal for others to have them.
Besides being a violation of privacy, the woman would just say, "Oh it was the most horrible experience ever, I want to stop other women from going through what I went through," etc.
The same people who want smaller government with limited powers are completely OK with a government looking into your womb. They are OK with the government examining your motives for having sex.
BEFORE Roe v. Wade abortion was up to the states.
There is no mention of abortion in the constitution.
IF Roe v. Wade is overturned (it really is bad law), then abortion will go BACK to the states.
Red states will outlaw it, Blue states will legalize it.
To legalize or outlaw abortion for the entire country would take a constitutional amendment. Never going to happen.
R37, my friend worked at an abortion clinic when she was in nursing school. Being near Atlanta, it had protesters out in front of it every day. All of the employees had stories about the day one of the protesters came in, needing the services of the clinic. My friend thought they were exaggerating. Nope, one day my friend looked up at the next woman who was filling out paper work and sure enough it was one of the protesters who was very familiar to her. My friend was terrified that she was going to plant a bomb but she was there getting an abortion. She never saw her protesting outside of the clinic again.
Roe v. Wade isn't really "bad" law. It was the best Blackmun could come up with. Courts are forced to be creative all the time because legislatures fail to or just can't cover all the bases.
The right to privacy in Griswold was a natural expression of the entire essence of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Roe was only a natural extension of that basic right.
The only bad thing about Roe v. Wade that I can remember (I haven't read it in a very longtime) is injecting any state interest in any part of a pregnancy except to ensure the safety of a medical procedure - since abused by right to lifers as a means to deny the right to an abortion.
For the most part young women were sent away to homes to have their babies. I remember Maris Stella Villa run by nuns just outside the Air Force base in Orlando - it was a mansion on the shores of a lake and was in Winter Park which began at the back gate of the base. I remember seeing the girls walking along the road to go to the nearby 7/11. Girls from the Orlando area went to a similar home in the Tampa area.
Until the Supreme Court ruled in Roe in January 1973 only 3 states had legalized abortions - Colorado, New York and Hawaii. Go read the story of the New York State legislature's vote on abortion. It was introduced by anti abortion advocates in the hopes it would fail because it was so liberal - almost unrestricted abortion. It looked ready to fail as a tie vote when at the last minute . . .
R38, If a few Red states make abortion illegal, will women then try to go to a Blue state?
Really the best solution to reduce the need for abortions is the charity created in FL by John Stamos' mother and endorsed by Oprah Winfrey. A similar one also exists in TX. It offers poor teens, who are often completely rejected by their parents and boyfriends, free medical care, a place to live, and financial and emotional support if they wish to keep their babies. Completely open adoptions are also an alternative if the pregnant teen so chooses. At least these religious women are "putting their money and energy where their mouth is" rather than being completely two-faced.
How about the legislation that gives convicted rapists visitation and custodial rights to their spawn. Can you imagine being tied to your rapist for years because the father has rights? Sorry, no way would I support that. And it's easy to say "well they shouldn't have had the baby" but honestly, would you really want your rapist to have access to the child? Not to mention if they every get behind bars, where's that child support coming from?
And no, I haven't been raped and if I ever were and there was this law on the books I'd move or terminate.
And this is in VT, the liberal state.
R42 there is a large contingent of noisy conservatives who are all for forcing women to give birth to their rapist's child. These are fucking scary people. They put a fetus ahead of a living, breathing woman. These are the kind of people who will bring A Handmaid's Tale to life.