Conventional wisdom dictates that if you can afford to have food delivered, you should be able to afford the tip. Not always.
On Tuesday, a Reddit user named Jfastman uploaded a photo of a receipt for a pizza delivery that included 85 pizzas totaling $1,453. "My friend delivered 85 pizzas today and got a $10 tip," he wrote. The story kicked off a fiery debate prompting dozens to write comments such as "The delivery guy deserved more" and "Ten dollars is cheap!" Others insisted that no one could realistically expect to receive a 20 percent tip on such a large order.
Tipping has been a hot topic lately and there's no shortage of water cooler news anecdotes to fan the flames. In October 2011, a waitress named Victoria Liss didn't receive a tip for the service she provided for a $28.98 meal, however she did receive a note that read, “P.S. You could stand to loose (sic) a few pounds.” In January, Reddit user Nickshambo posted a photo of a note a patron left his friend instead of a tip. Printed on paper, the note read: "As a direct result of Proposition 30 and President Obama's insistence that I pay "MY FAIR SHARE IN TAXES" I find that I must cut back on discretionary spending and gratuities. I wish it didn't have to be this way for both of us." And later that month, Reddit user Gateflan, a former waiter at Applebee's posted that a St. Louis-based pastor named Alois Bell reacted to his restaurant's "included tip" policy of 18 percent by writing a zero on the receipt's tip line and writing, "I give God 10 percent. Why do you get 18?" Other variations of "tips" have included racial slurs and curse words.
"Although tipping is an accepted custom in the United States, there is a lot of confusion over when, how much to give, and to whom," Michael Lynn, Ph.D., "tipping expert" and professor at Cornell's School of Hotel Administration, told Yahoo! Shine. "Although no one exactly knows how tipping originated, one theory dates back to the late 1400s in Germany when a silversmith wrote a note to a patron that read, 'My apprentice helped with this and would also appreciate a tip.'"
According to Lynn, the trend took off and tipping became big business in the United States with people tipping more frequently and in larger amounts than in any other country. And there's a psychological component at play. "In addition to compensating someone for providing quality work, tipping can often be about social approval," he says. "We live in a society where status is achieved and not ascribed. Money is a measure of how much we've achieved and often people determine a tip based on how much they want to prove their worth." There's social pressure too. Who hasn't been at a group dinner and sneaked a peek at how much their dinner companion is giving?
But in a modern-day society where people can pretty much get any of their needs delivered (cat food, diapers, toiletries) thanks to the rise of technology, the rules of tipping can be confusing. Do you tip the bellhop for bringing up your bags? What about on a spa certificate you're given as a gift? And do you always have to tip 20 percent—even when service is poor? A waitress could be forgetful and slow but odds are she only makes minimum wage (a paltry $2.13 in many states); does she deserve a sympathy tip?
"The rule of thumb is that you should always tip when someone is bringing you a product or service where manual labor is involved," says Lynn. "For example, movers, food and drink delivery people, restaurant servers, house cleaners, salon workers, and hotel maids. These are also situations where you can measure the immediate value of the work, unlike say, a car mechanic or doctor where their services are more abstract and assessed over time."
Tipping on gifts you received such as flowers and gift certificates fall into gray areas, but in an ideal situation the giver would have prepaid the tip before sending the gift.
There's a tricky tipping scale too. Standard tipping rates are 15-20 percent in many parts of the country but that bracket is rapidly expanding. "People are tipping more these days and the mean tip is closer to 20 percent," says Lynn. "We call it 'tip creep.' One person can boost the norm and then there's upward pressure to conform. Many now tip 25-30 percent."
And what of the pizza delivery guy—why was he given such a poor tip? "Without knowing the specifics, it's possible that the person ordering the pizza just didn't know any better," says Lynn. "Standard tipping on a pizza is a few bucks. So he may have figured that delivering 85 pies required one trip—the same trip to deliver just one. But instead of giving him a few dollars, he upped it to $10. The reality? He should have tipped between $85-$100."
See? Trickle down economics don't work!
I delivered pizzas back when I was 19 (I quit after a week though because it sucked so much), and one thing that I learned real fast is that rich people are the cheapest assholes when it comes to tipping. The rich people would give the shittiest tips and surprisingly the lower-middle class people gave the best tips (probably because they know what it's like to do those types of jobs).
So sadly this story doesn't surprise me. People with money are cheap cunts.
I don't think I'll ever get Dl's obsession with tipping. I never tip and I don't know why Dl spends so much time talking about it.
R4 Because America isn't like Europe or Australia where delivery people and wait staff make living wages; in America these types of jobs people live off of their tips. So if you're in America and you aren't tipping, then you're an asshole.
[quote]it's possible that the person ordering the pizza just didn't know any better," says Lynn
I think this is the case a lot of the time. People who don't eat out much or who may not be from the US just don't know what's expected.
Why don't you tip, R4?
You DO know they're spitting in your food, right?
Blue collar guys are the best tippers. Not sure why. Maybe because they are hard workers who appreciate other hard workers.
I feel very uncomfortable tipping, I don't like giving away money.
I live in America now but I was born in Ireland, grew up in England but I that's not why I don't tip. I very rarely eat out.
I know that these people don't make much money, but why should I pay them, I already paid for my food.
It seems like only this website anyone who doesn't doesn't give a fifty percent tip is somehow evil.
You live in America now, R4, so adapt accordingly.
I blame the pizzeria. Anyone making 85 pizzas for delivery should automatically tack on a tip. If you show up at a restaurant with 8 or more you have to pay the automatic 18-20%. The same rule should apply here.
Sorry, it's only now I've noticed grammar errors above.
R10 Exactly. Don't move to another country if you don't want to adapt to their customs.
I'd also like to add that I find automatic service charges obnoxious.
I might be more willing to give a tip to a nicer waiter (although I still wouldn't) but most of them are money hungry.
If their current job doesn't pay them enough then why don't they get a new one?
Ireland called R4, they DO NOT want you back. You were and arsehole when you lived there. That's why they sent you away.
I'm fully adapted to all other customs, R10 and R13.
Cheap bastards use any excuse to get out of giving a proper tip even when the service is satisfactory.
You always show your true colors when you are a bad tipper (especially when you take great pride in it).
I agree with R15. This is exactly why people don't like immigration - because so many of these foreigners want to keep acting like they're still living in the country they came from.
R4? You know why DL is obsessed with tipping? Because, contrary to popular belief, half the guys who post here are actually waiters.
R4 is just being contrarian and obnoxious. But that type of mentality is pretty common. Most servers only make $2.13/hr and that portion is taxed by the IRS, plus tips are taxed as well. Usually, for every person who doesn't tip, there's usually another customer who'll tip well and make up for it. People who can barely afford to eat out dont tip much either...I always went by the philosophy of not eating out if I didn't have the money or enough to eat and tip.
Social media is making this fun. I have a friend who started delivering pizzas for extra money to pay for his kids school activities. He uses foursquare to "tag" people that order large amounts of food but don't tip or do the $2 for a $40 order. Many of the drivers do this and then they can check before a delivery.
I think it is a great way to mark the cheapskates.
I'm now a proud American citizen and I still don't see why I should give away my money when I don't have to and I've already paid for something.
R4 is the reason I love Reddit so much and spend most of my online time there. Assholes like him get down voted out of sight. When enough REGISTERED (not anonymous) posters give you negative votes your post disappears. Great system. DL needs to get with the times or continue to slide into fringe obscurity.
Waiters should start taking pictures with their cell phones of bad tippers and expose them on the internet. Shame will get them to change their greedy, selfish ways.
Irish dude, if you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat out. Period. No one wants to wait on your cheap ass for free.
ITA with R11. The pizza place should have tacked on a delivery charge for that many pizzas.
Another message from a non-American (which means I could be from any other place in the world, because only the US has this weird custom): why aren't food servers paid a living wage? Why do most servers only make $2.13 an hour and why is even that taxed? Why isn't anyone in your country campaigning for a decent minimum wage for servers? Why is the anger always directed at non-tippers and not at the shitty labour laws?
R25, you do know that if servers were paid more the prices would rise right? Your $15 entre would rise to $20. If you're okay with that, then fine. But I'm guessing Irish guy loves the fact that his restaurant bills are relatively low (compared to Europe) AND he gets to stiff the servers.
Chances are a "delivery fee" was already added. Without the full receipt we don't know the full story. There's a local place that adds a $2 fee to a $10 pizza; very few still offer "free delivery."
I seriously doubt a place that sent out a $1,453 order, didn't collect a delivery fee.
I live in a country where people don't need to tip. And that's because people like a delivery guy earn enough money to cover all their bills.
Reddit also had a gigantic thread posted yesterday about celebrity assholes people have encountered, and a large portion was dedicated to celebrities who adamantly refuse to tip. Someone posted about how John Elway left a note instead of a tip and it said something about how he was oppose to tipping and that the waiter should ask for a raise or get a new job. Link goes to the thread.
R23, same here. Too bad the same karma system isn't here on DL. Some of these DLers deserve a heap of downvotes/negative karma.
So, is a delivery driver also taxed on the food he delivers or just servers? If he is already making a better wage than a server, why does he deserve the same tip?
R27, I was thinking the same thing. Seems they would have factored in the delivery charge for an order that size. Also, I'd assume that it took more than one can and one car to deliver 85 pizzas.
Another option, my buddy always tips in cash so it does not have to be reported to the IRS. Maybe the driver pocketed the rest.
Yes r26 I realise that and don't have a problem with it and doubt Irish guy would either. You know, in the rest of the world where we don't starve our servers and charge a little more people still go out to eat and there are many thriving restaurants. In any case, if you are morally obliged to leave a tip in the US then you still end up spending as much as you do at a restaurant in Europe. Which again begs the question, why are salaries for servers and restaurant staff so low in the US? How can it even be legal? If the salary of servers and restaurant staff is expected to come out of the tip then that should be legally binding and the customer should be legally obliged to pay an extra 20% or whatever. Otherwise, it's just optional and, if it's optional then customers can choose whether to tip and how much to leave.
But, even making it legally binding to pay a tip is not the most balanced option because a restaurant may have fewer customers for a period, meaning tips are lower, or diners may buy fewer dishes, again making the tips lower and hence the overall salary lower. Better to have a set salary at a decent level and any tips paid for service, etc. can be considered a bonus.
Is it too difficult for Americans to demand that servers be paid a decent wage? You refuse to do that and then got all morally superior about people who don't leave a large enough tip. The true moral position would be to argue for a decent wage.
I love that cheapskates like r4 have no problem giving money to the very people (the restaurant owners who pay starvation wages to servers/delivery people) they pretend to dislike but their oh-so-high principles keep them from compensating the victims of the greedy businessmen they condemn.
Those who asked about delivery charges: Delivery charges go to the restaurant, not the driver.
Tipping is a fucked up business model -- people should be paid a living wage.
The only way that will change is if businesses insist on a no tipping policy and then pay their servers enough to compensate. That in turn would cause higher menu prices. I don't see that happening any time soon.
I'm black. We have a certain reputation when it comes to tipping. So I always over tip, even when the service is not that great. I know it's not my responsibility, but I just can't help myself.
A good friend of mine,a beautiful white woman, also over tips because they have the same reputation about being bad tippers.
[quote]Blue collar guys are the best tippers. Not sure why.
they are showing off in front of their girlfriends and wives, showing that they are "a big man".
indeed, working as a waiter you always expected the biggest tip from the guy who was on a date.
[quote] You DO know they're spitting in your food, right?
This doesn't make any sense. You've already finished your meal by the time you pay your bill.
R4, waiters and such make like $2.13 an hour, that's less than minimum wage. They live off of tips, so yes, you are an asshole by not tipping.
R27 Every time I order a pizza, there's a $2 fee, which the bill clearly states DOES NOT GO TO THE DRIVER.
There are plenty of options available for dining where you don't have to tip.
You can order take out from almost any restaurant and pick it up. You can go to a take out restaurant and buy your food at the counter. You can buy ready made carry out from a grocery store. You can buy a frozen meal and heat it up.
It is very unlikely you will starve if you avoid going to restaurants where you are expected to tip.
Yet all the cheapskates seem to love to go a restaurant and be waited on hand and foot, served water, cocktails, wine, meal, desert, coffee, how would you like that?, is everything OK?, would you care for anything else?, etc. Then all their trash is whisked away; all the china, cleared and washed by additional staff (who are then tipped by the waiters) and the linens taken away and washed offsite at a laundry.
Then the tightwads act all indignant that they are expected to comply with the tipping policy of dining in such an establishment even though they are aware of such a policy before they stepped outside of their own door.
r4, when you go out to eat and look at the prices on the menu, mentally calculate another 15% to actually get your food out of the kitchen and to your table. That's what it costs to eat out. You say you pay for your food, but now you need to pay to have someone serve it to you. Otherwise, stay home.
R41, why do waiters only make like $2.13 an hour? Shouldn't they be paid a living wage?
R45, because the US is a third world country.
It's a waste of time to post on this but I have a tier system. I order a lot of delivery. I use three restaurants that are close; the delivery person travels two blocks at most, takes the elevator and hands me my food. I tip 10%. My usual order is $20.00. He simply took a package and dropped it (and several others) off. I've never had a complaint and they are all very friendly because I'm a regular.
When I eat out, I start at 15% regardless of service quality. If it's really good, personal service I go higher but I generally stop at 20%.
I usually tip in cash for reasons stated above, and if there is something 'special' about the delivery I will tip more, though since I only order for one my order is not heavy or cumbersome (but fattening and death inviting.)
Also with take out, I get to know the counter people who actually take the order and either pack it up or supervise packing it, and I visit the restaurant once or so a month and tip them ($5 - $10). It's just a gesture to let them I appreciate that they are friendly and helpfukl
How many more times?? You Americans are nuts with the tipping, in the UK we only tip in restaurants, hotels and occasionally for exemplary service elsewhere. I resented having to tip for every beer when it was already the same price as here when I was in Chicago, but I did it anyway (and everything else). Greedy business owners have been trying to bring in tipping in bars in Soho for about 5 years. Guess what, it's not working.
This is how it SHOULD be:
1) Delivery guys don't get tips unless it's Christmas or the people they're delivering to are mega-rich.
2) Shit service gets no tip. Mediocre service will be lucky to get a token amount.
3) Reasonable-Good service gets 5-10% unless the bill is £20 or under in which case they'll probably get a quid.
4) Good-Excellent service gets 10-20% depending on how good a job they did.
5) It is not the duty of the customer to pay wages. Tips are a bonus to be earned.
6) Bad or no tipping is not an excuse to be rude or tamper with food. That is ridiculous, and criminal. And shouldn't be condoned.
7) If there's a service charge on my bill, you won't get a tip and I am unlikely to come back to your establishment. It is obnoxiously presumptuous.
R4 is not a cheapskate (the abuse you heaped on him was shocking, actually), that's just the way it is in Europe. There is no such thing as an automatic tip, mostly because everything under the sun has VAT and god knows what else tax on it.
You should look harder at your country and why you don't pay people a proper minimum wage; and why the business owners think it's acceptable to charge for services and then expect the customer also effectively to pay their staff's wages.
In the case of this story, yes a 10 dollar tip from rich arseholes is poor, but really it's not like he's going to be given a grand, is it? Probably they should have at least given a twenty or a fifty.
And before you call me cheap, whenever I got super-friendly or attentive service when I was eating out in Paris last summer I gave generous tips- probably even better than my rules above.
I don't know why I've written all this because no doubt I've said it before and you dogmatic Americans will leap on it and call me a cheapskate. I thought you should know the foreign perspective.
We all think you're tipping mad.
R38, Indians are the worst tippers, not black people or "beautiful" women.
Anything $20 and under I tip $5.
Anything $50 and under ($21 and up) I tip $10.
R48 I will keep that in mind when I visit the UK. Since you are aware of the American customs I trust you will do the same when you visit here.
[quote]Tips are a bonus to be earned.
But that's not reality.
R49, what kind of Indians? West Indian, East Indian or American Indian?
I know, R51, who the fuck made her queen?
[quote][R4] is not a cheapskate (the abuse you heaped on him was shocking, actually), that's just the way it is in Europe.
We are not talking about Europe long-winded arsehole @R48. Why do you idiots insist on bringing it up? We don't give a fuck.
And why do you other idiots insist on telling us how it "should" be? Deal with reality and you will be a lot more productive.
I don't know. Tips used to be a gratuity; now it seems to be demanded and expected of us. Lashing out on social media to shame the patron.
If your job is not paying you enough to live on, then it's the fault of the employer. Is it really up to the patrons to subsidize your income?
It really is up to the patrons to subsidize the income of food service staff, R56.
I figure if I'm unable to do so, I don't need to eat at a restaurant or order food for delivery. It's easy not to participate in tipping if I don't want to do so.
That's illogical r57. If you abstain from ordering out or eating out because you can't afford the tip, wouldn't that hurt the business, and ultimately the delivery guy's job?
That's not exactly a smart way to approach the problem of tipping.
Rather than shaming the patrons, I think the real culprit is the employer and our shameless minimum wage.
What r57 said. That probably is the best, most neutral assessment of the situation.
As for Europeans and untipping, I had a US friend go live in Ireland for several years. He is, and has always been, a cheapskate of the first magnitude, but only in ways that affect him. He was never a bad tipper.
However, at the end of one of our first meals out since his return, the bill came to $16.74, to be split evenly. I put in a $10 bill and didn't look to get any change back. He did the same, but had the waiter bring him fifty cents in change. He would never have done that before he lived in Ireland.
R4, you are the quintessence of a cheapskate. I'm glad I don't know you, or I'd have to stop eating out with you. Adjust accordingly or go home. (Or die. I don't really care.)
r48 How nice of you to share your Utopian vision for the world with the rest of us, now kindly fuck off.
No patrons were shamed.
Tipping is not a problem unless you don't do it, R59. Maybe you should go home to your native country, too, with R4.
My native country being the United States. Your native country being a doormat with an illogical reasoning for not eating out is because you can't pay the tip.
I already paid for the car. Why should I pay for gas?
I already paid for the condo. Why should I pay maintenance?
I already paid sales tax. Why should I pay income tax?
I already paid for parts. Why should I pay for labor?
Why is it that not a single server/server ball sucker in this thread has suggested demanding a living wage from your bosses? Instead, you repeatedly insist "that's the way the world is," as if a $2.13 wage is like the law of gravity, and simply can't be challenged in any way.
Every non- tipper staying home isn't going to change a thing for you, except perhaps leading to you losing your job because your employer can't afford to stay in business due to the loss of traffic. The bottom line is your employer needs to pay you more and tips need to be what they were always meant to be--gratuitous. Until that happens you will continue to be reduced to food spitting, harassing people on social media, and other demeaning shows of powerlessness.
r65 Why don't you just learn to tip?
[quote]Instead, you repeatedly insist "that's the way the world is," as if a $2.13 wage is like the law of gravity, and simply can't be challenged in any way.
It may not be the law of gravity, but it is the law. I'm assuming that some lobbying group with major clout got Congress to give restaurants a much lower minimum wage.
I think it is six of one half a dozen of the other. However....
I do not know if I am comfortable with the idea of restaurants raising prices to cover server wages. The current system insures good service by giving an incentive.
But whether I tip or whether the restaurant charges more, the price will probably be the same, so I do not see why this is much of an issue at all. Most people know that they are expected to pay a tip and budget accordingly. It is pretty simple to do. Even a European could do the math.
Sure, R65. A pizza delivery guy complaining to his boss is going to somehow get the United States Department of Labor to change their laws on top wages. That's the easy solution, sure.
R65 Don't worry about us waiters, bus boys, bartenders, hat check girls or even us cabbies. No one is losing anything when you stay home. As a matter of fact we beg you, PLEASE STAY HOME!
[quote]Sure, [R65]. A pizza delivery guy complaining to his boss is going to somehow get the United States Department of Labor to change their laws on top wages. That's the easy solution, sure.
Or even tip wages.
What R65 said, a million times. This thread must be full of waiters.
"That's just the way the world is."
What a pathetic non-argument. It's NOT the way the rest of the world is, it's just what you've been bullied to expect in the USA. As for saying my vision was some sort of Utopia- that rather implies you know your system is wrong and should be better, but for some reason you think it impossible.
Tipping culture comes only when employers refuse to pay a decent wage, and customers enable it. No doubt the bastards in charge on our side of the pond would love that, but so far their efforts are failing. We remain resolute in our common sense approach.
When something is overpriced to begin with, you're not getting a tip unless we're getting something more in return. Usually that something is exemplary service.
R64 presents a totally nonsensical argument. The auto-tip is an American aberration.
[quote]The current system insures good service by giving an incentive.
The current system *encourages* good service by *the customers* giving an incentive.
In other service cultures, good service is insured by management providing incentives (and punishments) to keep customers happy.
Here, here, R43! I agree that the tipping is for the entire “experience” of being waited on by a server at the restaurant. No you are not a king or queen, you are a customer who came to eat a meal, however, you are being attended to by a (hopefully) well-mannered server, who can guide you on selecting a wonderful, fulfilling meal, as well as, make you feel important as you are being served. THAT requires some type of compensation!
ayb, you may not be aware that we're talking about tipping customs in the U.S. in this thread, not England.
It also creates a situation where the wait staff will prejudge certain guests and 'adjust' the level of service accordingly based on whether or not they think they're going to get a good tip or not. It's a flawed system, but how do you fix it?
r75, As I already stated, mine was a foreign perspective to give you an outsider's point of view. You see, this is what the world is talking about, you can be so fucking insular sometimes.
Now I know that the autotip is nailed into your employment law by a mandated lower minimum wage for wait-staff it all makes sense. How on earth you allowed that to happen, however, doesn't. And that you think it's the way it should be is what we find insane.
But nevermind, go on being aggressive and rude to anyone presenting an alternative view that you're being ripped off, forced into a system of fake generosity that is inherently meaningless.
When someone gives a tip in the UK it's because they WANTED to reward excellence, not because they felt OBLIGED to avoid insolence. Now perhaps you can see the difference? Your tips are insincere. I mean if you're even tipping BAD service then you must see the system is fucked??
No, probably not. Carry on with the hatefest!
I guess we are coming to see in this threat that whether management pays more or customers tip--each system works.
But you have to work with the system where you are. If tipping is expected, you will not change the system by stiffing the waiter.
What a lot of martyrs on this thread!
Do people actually think that the waiters have the power to change the laws? That they're going along with the system because they're too lazy to change it instead of the fact that they have no power over the system?
Oh, I'm so European that I can't tip while I'm in America, lah dee dah dee dah....you're just cheap. And I hope someone does spit in your food. Something nice and contagious would be good.
We don't even tip in my country, because guess what... people actually have livable wages here! That goes for the pizza delivery guys too.
Scandinavian at 80 and ayb, please move to the U.S. and change our laws.
The U.S. is being destroyed from within by wealthy corporations and lobbying groups that use their money and influence to control Congress. This thread on tipping is only one example.
Please. We need your help.
R79, you're a cunt. And you have reading comprehension problems. Poor dear! I can't imagine being so doubly-handicapped. What a horror for you (and everyone else, apparently).
This is what I said:
[quote]I resented having to tip for every beer when it was already the same price as here when I was in Chicago, [bold]but I did it anyway[/bold] (and everything else).
[quote]And before you call me cheap, whenever I got super-friendly or attentive service when I was eating out in Paris last summer [bold]I gave generous tips[/bold]- probably even better than my rules above.
[quote]I don't know why I've written all this because no doubt I've said it before and [bold]you dogmatic Americans will leap on it and call me a cheapskate[/bold]. I thought you should know the foreign perspective.
I heard about your insane system, and acted accordingly when I was in your country. Unlike the more brash of your kind (I'm guessing you're one of those), we have a saying: 'when in Rome'. If you do decide to get a passport and venture out beyond your current borders, do please keep this little ditty in mind.
R51, that's perfectly fine, you do that, you know you're not obliged to tip outside of the US. Unfortunately, because of the shitty American system, some restaurants in the UK, which think they're posh, have started adding 10%-12.5% service charges to bills, although you are not obliged to pay that. In fact, please don't, as the serving staff in these places are already getting a reasonable salary and the so-called service charge is just another way for the restaurant to increase the bill without increasing the prices on the menu.
R64 doesn't know what he's talking about either. Do you add a tip every time you pay for something? So, when you go to the grocery store, do you tip the checkout girl?
R74, the compensation for being waited upon should be called wages, not tips. What you're effectively saying is that it is not the responsibility of a restaurant owner to compensate serving staff.
R79, you know what, we do pay the shitty tips when we're in the US. The point we're making is that it's a heap-of-shit system. It's amazing that you tippers only criticise those who don't tip at the rate you think they should and don't criticise the system that only pays serving staff $2.13 an hour.
Basically, all the pro-tippers are saying is that they think it's perfectly acceptable for serving staff to be paid $2.13 by their employer.
What I do not understand is why people keep saying tipping is a rip-off or somehow the customer is getting cheated. Since everyone understands the system, why would there be a problem.
Without tipping, prices would be higher since they would need to include service. So where are customers getting ripped off.
Both the European and American systems have plusses and minuses. But to claim that US diners are cheated by tipping or that Europeans are cheated by higher prices....it just seems dopey.
R83, we all criticize the system that requires us to tip wait staff so they can survive.
However, initially this thread wasn't about cause and effect. It was about someone who ordered 85 pizzas, probably for some sort of event, and then stiffed the delivery person.
Hey, Americans check out the link and see how the entire rest of the planet tips.
R84, I'd rather the price charged was higher and the tip - which is supposedly an optional gratuity for quality of service - be left up to me. By the way, higher prices would not be including "service", they would be including staff salaries. That's the cultural difference: in Europe and the rest of the planet we believe the price should cover staff salaries, in America you see don't believe the price should cover staff salaries. In fact, you ignore the concept of staff salaries and think of it simply as "service" and it's up to the customer to decide what to leave. Whatever I pay for in whatever kind of transaction I make, I presume it's going to cover staff salaries and all other expenses.
I don't like your system because I think it is unfair to service staff.
So I will not pay service staff because I think service staff should make more money.
The restaurant owners who refuse to pay for service are greedy. However, when I refuse to pay for service, it is not because I am greedy.
Rather I stiff wait staff because I am more principled than the waiters.
That's nice, R86. Beyond a mild curiosity, I really don't care about the tipping system in Zimbabwe because I don't live there.
R85 Yeah and if those pizza buyers hired a van and a driver to pick those 85 pizzas up it would have cost them @ $200.
So everyone else will have to pay because one group was a cheapskate.
Now that pizza place is going to surcharge every order over a certain amount.
Are delivery guys reimbursed for gas?
R88, that link doesn't include any reference to Zimbabwe, so it's a safe bet to say that you're talking crap.
By the way, to bring the conversation back to the pizzas, one of the commentators at OP's link wrote:
"I am a waitress, and have done this line of work in addition to my career in the medical field. There is no LAW that states you HAVE tip...When I started working as a waitress almost 30 years ago the wage was $2.01 per hour, now it's $2.23 per hour. It is a way for the owner's of these resteraunts to get out of paying servers...I know this, and it is my choice to work as a waitress. I sympathize completely with other servers that only have this job as their source of income because of the pressure it puts on them, but I don't EXPECT people to tip. I give everyone excellent service and always manage to make great money. My customers are my income, therefore I treat them as if they were my employer."
So, the average hourly wage for wait staff in the US today is $2.23 whereas 30 years ago it was $2.01. It's gone up by only 22 cents in 30 years. Which to me suggests that restaurant owners have been cutting and cutting what they pay servers and increasingly shifting the burden of paying for their staff on to customers. Presumably because they knew customers would accept this and wouldn't even notice how the rate of the tip they're expected to pay has crept up.
R4 needs to die in a grease fire free of charge.
Weigh it for yourself honey
R91, apparently you're so literal minded you missed that the Zimbabwe reference was a throwaway line. Zimbabwe had nothing to do with the link and I never said it did. I remain only mildly interested in tipping systems in other parts of the world.
The U.S. Congress has been run by the rich and powerful for some time, and it has only gotten worse. Restaurants and agribusinesses have lobbyists who curry favor on Capitol Hill to keep working people in their place.
I think that waitress has the right idea about not expecting tips, but I bet she would be might unhappy if none of her customers tipped.
What was it for, a Tea Party Fundraiser?
[quote]Why is it that not a single server/server ball sucker in this thread has suggested demanding a living wage from your bosses?
If they did, you would be paying at least 30% more on everything edible you ever had served to you in public or delivered to your door. You object to paying a two-dollar tip on a twelve dollar pizza? Fine, you can pay sixteen dollars for the same pizza without having to tip. Does that work better for you?
So it was 85 pizzas. It took him how long to walk up to the door to deliver, what, maybe 10 minutes.
I'd be glad to have a tip, and say "thank you."
R97, do you understand that for these people tips aren't "bonuses"? It's how they get paid. Tip wage in the US is $2.13 an hour.
R97, so you're assuming he carried all 85 pizzas at one time?
For all we know, they were in some sort of office space or rented venue and he had to park and carry a few pizzas at a time until he had them all unloaded.
r98, the driver is not a server. He is not being taxed for serving and he is not making $2/hour. He's probably not making much, but that's a discussion for the minimum wage thread.
R100 I tip delivery dudes (and dudettes) MORE than waiters. They make it that much simpler for me to eat, and cheaper if you consider travel costs, than a waiter does in a restaurant. Plus they have vehicle upkeep.
"The reality? He should have tipped between $85-$100"
Sorry, but I couldn't imagine tipping $100 here.
Like others have said, the pizza place very likely charged a massive delivery fee, the driver is compensated for gas, and the driver is paid above minimum wage.
I would have probably tipped $40 or $50...even knowing that I had paid a delivery charge.
What about tipping counter help? I always get annoyed by the stupid tip jars that say "Feeling Tipsy??"
Um, no, you poured me coffee and handed it to me. WTF?
It's interesting that the real criminals are the businesses that don't pay their employees a living wage. And yet we go on and on about how customers are at fault and evil for not financially supporting and being responsible for the staff of restaurants.
R104, I think we covered that when we discussed not eating in restaurants or using delivery services.
I completely agree with R104. I do tip, but it shouldn't be necessary. If tips are shared out equally, I don't as if I do tip it is for good service and not some retarded 'team' mentality.
Its a job. You do it, collect the pay and hopefully any tips. Don't like that? Get another job!
Restaurant Waiter- Flat 20% tipper here. Unless the service is really lousy, 10%.
Food Delivery- depends on the weather, quantity, etc, I usually tip 10-20%. as in this instance with the 85 pizzas at 1400 dollars; at least 100.00.
Tip jars- coinage, or if I am a regular, dollars.
Reading through this thread makes me wonder about people's real motive for not tipping properly. Sure it's a shitty system, I lived in Europe where wait staff are paid a living wage and tipping was a discretionary reward. Here, on the other hand, whether it is right or wrong, the structure is different. Not tipping properly really is a crummy thing to do, it's cheap and it's not going to change the way restaurants pay.
I think tipping (or not) is some if the enjoyment certain people get out of eating in a restaurant.
It feeds their power-trip mentality.