Trayvon Martin case: Zimmerman drops stand-your-ground defence
Trayvon Martin case: Zimmerman drops stand-your-ground defence
Neighbourhood watch leader who shot dead teenager on Florida housing estate will instead go straight to jury trial
Richard Luscombe in Miami; guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 6 March 2013 06.14 GMT
Lawyers acting for George Zimmerman, who shot dead the unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin on a Florida housing estate, have abandoned their attempt to have his murder charge thrown out on the grounds of self-defence.
Neighbourhood watch leader Zimmerman, 29, had been expected to claim immunity from prosecution at a hearing in April under the state's stand-your-ground law, which allows for the use of deadly force when a person feels their life is in danger.
But in a surprise move, his lawyer, Mark O'Mara, told a judge that the defence would take its chances at Zimmerman's trial in June for second-degree murder. He said he still intended to pursue the argument that his client was acting in self-defence in February 2012 under a violent onslaught from 17-year-old Martin.
The unexpected decision changes the entire direction of a case that sparked racial tensions when Zimmerman was originally released without charge. The case also put America's gun laws under the spotlight.
His fate will now almost certainly rest with a jury instead of circuit court judge, Debra Nelson, who could have thrown out the case at next month's immunity hearing. It leaves the defendant at more risk of the minimum 25-year sentence that would follow a conviction.
"The real focus is going to be on getting ready for a jury trial," O'Mara said at a hearing on Tuesday in Sanford, close to the Retreat at Twin Lakes community where Martin had been staying with his father on the night of his death.
"As you know I've been counting. We're only at 96 days [from trial] right now. So that only gives us time to really get ready for one hearing. And that's going to be a jury trial where he gets acquitted. George wants to have a jury of his peers decide the case."
The defence has always contended it was Martin who was the aggressor as they became entangled in a confrontation on the night of 26 February 2012 as the teenager walked back to the house owned his father's friend carrying candy and a soft drink he had bought at a nearby shop.
Zimmerman told police in a 911 call that he was following a "suspicious" male but claimed Martin turned on him, pinning him to the ground and breaking his nose before he managed to draw his handgun and fire a single deadly shot.
The prosecutor, Bernie de la Rionda, will counter that Zimmerman, who had previously called in cases of unidentified males walking in the community, was an overzealous busybody who pursued and harassed an unarmed teenager before killing him with intent.
De La Rionda said he was "bewildered" by Tuesday's change of defence tactics. The hearing ended with O'Mara announcing he reserved the right to still seek a new stand-your-ground hearing despite telling Nelson she could clear her calendar for the two weeks beginning 29 April that had been set aside for the legal argument.
Tuesday's court hearing heard that testimony from a crucial state witness, a teenage girl known only as Witness 8 who claimed to have been on the phone with Martin when he was shot, would be called into question.
The girl previously testified that she was in hospital on the day of Martin's funeral but the state attorney's office admitted that no medical records existed to back her claim. Defence lawyers are expected to use the development to challenge the credibility of her story about the phone call.
Zimmerman's trial is scheduled to begin in Sanford on 10 June. His wife, Shelley, 25, faces a perjury charge in separate proceedings for allegedly lying to the court about the couple's finances at a bail hearing in her husband's case.
It sounds like Zimmerman's lawyers have decided their best best is to count on an incompetent prosecution.
Or having some closeted racists on the jury.
You gotta love those Florida juries!
This sounds like big news.
And yet I heard very little about it today. Why?
yeah, this seems really big
And why is the news in a British newspaper?
[quote] Neighborhood watch leader who shot dead teenager on Florida housing estate
That's wrong. He was NOT part of the neighborhood watch, much less the leader. He was just a vigilante who wanted to chase down a black person
He has some evidence of assault on him with the injuries which will aid him in a self defense theory. In self-defense cases the prosecution not only has to prove each and every element of the charges against him beyond a reasonable doubt, the prosecution has the added burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did NOT have a right to self- defense. That's more of a hurdle for the govt.
So if the jury understands the burden properly then it is harder to DISPROVE self-defense.
In Zimmerman's case, I think it will be hard for a jury to find him guilty - beyond a reasonable doubt is a high standard as it should be. For those eager to convict, a jury cannot just assume the defendant had racist motives which too many people feel free to interject - but a jury will be instructed it cannot do that without evidence.
R8, Zimmerman is the one who followed Trayvon Martin and initiated the conflict in the first place.
They've basically said we're relying on a racist jury for acquittal.
The story may not turn out to be the "trial of the century". Wouldn't that be nice, though I am sure it will be a media frenzy.
Thank you,r7. There are millions of news outlets around the world and it appears none of them want to report this simple fact. As you said,he was NOT on some patrol duty on that day,nor has any official 'watch' group come forward to claim him as one of their members.
This is why some people think the media is complicit to some degree in not reporting the truth about this murder.
I wonder if some riots will break out if he's not guilty.
This seems to be an issue that only black people care about. I'll pass.
And yet you're here,r14....
R4 is right -- whereas once the media was all over this, now they are backing away.
They are going straight self-defense rather than having the court make a stand-your-ground decision.
That is all. They couldn't possibly expect that there will be an incompetent prosecution; the prosecution is seen as being very capable (the defense may be as well).
r16, the media was all over this for very good reason at the beginning: the failure of the State to take the case seriously. Once the case took the case seriously, after being forced to do so by the nation, the media and the nation for the most part are now willing to do exactly what should be done: let the prosecution do their job ably, let Mr. Martin's defense do their job ably, and let the trier of fact decide the outcome - in other words, the expected and hopefully fair course of justice.
This will - and should be - especially the case now that the hot button stand your ground adjudication issue has been taken off the table and this case will go ahead as an ordinary justification case using traditional standards of self-defense.
[quote]Florida housing estate
I thought "housing estate" was the UK equivalent of "project." I think the place where Trayvon got shot was your basic suburban townhome development, not a project.
[quote]The story may not turn out to be the "trial of the century". Wouldn't that be nice, though I am sure it will be a media frenzy.
That will never happen.
N. Grace, thinking of a cutesy poo name as I type
Which is a pretty safe bet, R2.
Trayvon's "gf" is now an admitted liar, so thst's not good for the prosecution.
[quote] Zimmerman is the one who followed Trayvon Martin and initiated the conflict in the first place.
This hasn't been established as fact yet. I know it's hard but you have to leave your emotions and bias out of it.
Zimmerman is the one who followed Trayvon Martin and that has been established by his phone call to the cops. They told Zimmerman to stop. He didn't stop.
R18, I don't think the British have an equivalent for "townhouse community" or "housing development" like we have, which are significantly different from "housing projects." I think they call everything a "housing estate" when it's something that was a preplanned housing community.
[quote] Zimmerman is the one who followed Trayvon Martin
That doesn't make him the aggressor for purposes of self-defense. It can be successfully argued his following was harmless especially since it wasn't with evil intent and he called it in to the police.
There is a question as to what exactly was meant by "following" as well as whether what exactly the defendant did following the phone call. One act seems to be that he got out of his car to get a closer look at the street sign post to report to the police what street he was on.
If I'm keeping you in my sights to try to report where you are going then that's not the same as being on someone's tail and following in that way.
Martin was within maybe a minute of his father's door and was enough ahead of Zimmerman to have reached his father's door and gone inside. The fact that he didn't go to his dad's suggests to me that Martin decided to double back for whatever reason and by some indirect route and confront this guy he thought was harrassing him. It is something that a 17 year old would do without thinking it through carefully. I think we had one insulted and pissed off teenager and one scared and armed guy with a sad result.
What I'm not sure about is if withdrawing the request for a hearing to ask that the case be thrown thrown out based on a stand-your-ground argument means that the stand-your-ground defense can't be used at trial. If it's a legal defense then it seems it can still be used at trial as an alternative defense.
R22, GZ admits he followed the kid.
R25, carrying a gun establishes evil intent. It may be proved that GZ uttered, "these effin coons always get away."
There were only three streets in that neighborhood. And the self-appointed "Neighborhood Watch Captain" didn't know what street he wan on?
GZ has been caught in several lies. His wife was arrested for perjury in this case.
He also has a history of violence. Murder Two was his fourth arrest. How many times have you been arrested?
GZ also molested his younger cousin for ten years. Plus he's on two different psych meds. Why do you find him credible?
For example, he said he thought he was going to die from his head repeatedly being bashed into the sidewalk. But he never went to the hospital for his injuries. Never.
Why was GZ suspicious of Trayvon? What exactly did the kid do to warrant a call for the police? Who, by the way, told him not to follow the kid.
How it could possibly be self defense if he followed Trayvon before killing him?
Zimmerman had the opportunity to get away and the police even told him to. He ignored the police and sought Trayvon out.
[quote]One act seems to be that he got out of his car to get a closer look at the street sign post to report to the police what street he was on.
And that is really hilarious. Who would be stupid enough to repeat that claim? The self-styled Naighborhood Watch Captain doesn't know the name of the street that's two blocks beyond his own house. What a joke!!!!!
Any claim that follows that bullcrap is suspect! Don't even bother to read beyond that silliness.
"Zimmerman had the opportunity to get away and the police even told him to. He ignored the police and sought Trayvon out.'
Zimmerman claims that he was leaving, getting back into his truck, when Martin approached him and asked "do you have a problem?" and when he answered no, Martin replied "you do now" and jumped him and started punching him and slamming his head on the ground. After being attacked, Zimmerman defended himself with the gun.
That may well be exactly what happened.
Zimmerman is no saint, but Trayvon wasn't either. This jury has a shit case in front of them.
"GZ also molested his younger cousin for ten years."
This cousin of whom you speak is not exactly credible. All these years, and she decides to speak up just now? She's not believeable.
As if you want to talk about George Zimmerman's supposed lack of character and criminal tendencies, then you should also touch on Trayvon Martin's behavior. He was not exactly a boy scout. And I'm sick of seeing pictures of him when he was a chubby little 12 year old. He was NOT 12 years old when he died.
[quote]Zimmerman claims that he was leaving, getting back into his truck,
Another lie that follows the lie that he had to check the street sign.
The street was in his own neighborhood, two blocks down from his house, so he did NOT need to get out of the truck to see the sign. That was a lie.
Any intelligent person who easily recognizes that lie, knows that what follows won't be the truth.
R31, have you ever heard of the Catholic church? Clearly you know nothing about sexual abuse.
R29 don't you belong on yahoo message boards or in church you simple minded ass?
I think Trayvon got mad at being followed, so he turned around and jumped Zimmerman.
[quote] He was NOT 12 years old when he died.
Perhaps he should have been shot and killed when he was 12 years old, so he didn't grow up to be a tall, skinny black teenager in a hoodie? Would that have made you happier?
Who names a child "Trayvon"? If I were on the jury, that would stick in the back of my mind. If I don't know one other fact about the case (impossible now), who's going to be the criminal, someone named "George" or someone named "Trayvon"?
Which is one of the true tests of our justice system, R30. It's easy enough when the lines are clear -- "good guy" vs "bad guy."
Just because Martin had a (relatively tame) juvenile record doesn't mean it was open season on him. That's why vigilantism is frowned upon by decent cops and all people of goodwill. It muddies the waters of the criminal justice system.
Besides, Zimmerman could not possibly have known about Martin's record, or that he even had a record at all. So all that business about Martin being "no angel " is irrelevant to the actual events of last year.
"have you ever heard of the Catholic church? Clearly you know nothing about sexual abuse."
We're not talking about the Catholic Church. It seems very suspicious that this person has accused Zimmerman at THIS particular time in his life, when he's a nationally known figure. I think she wants attention, and maybe money for a tell-all.
"don't you belong on yahoo message boards or in church you simple minded ass?'
I suppose YOU were right there and saw everything that happened. If not, then you're an ignorant yammering twat who doesn't know a thing about what really happened.
"Perhaps he should have been shot and killed when he was 12 years old, so he didn't grow up to be a tall, skinny black teenager in a hoodie? Would that have made you happier?"
No, it would have made me happier if he were not portrayed as a 12 year old when he got shot. Those photos were misleading. When I first saw them I thought he was a little kid. He wasn't a little kid. He was a six foot three inch teenager with a chip on his shoulder.
No, it's not irrelevant!
His juvenile record and school problems (along with photographic evidence) help the public and jury decide whether or not they believe Zimmerman's story.... that Trayvon turned around and jumped him.
Which is why it should be suppressed, along with anything about GZ allegedly abusing his cousin. What happened on the streets that day is the issue.
R29, then Martin would have been killed near Zimmerman's truck.
But he was killed in his own back yard...far from the street.
[quote]This cousin of whom you speak is not exactly credible. All these years, and she decides to speak up just now? She's not believeable.
No, she told her sister who told their parents. They told George's parents. They all met and George apologized to his cousin, and agreed to not attend the same family functions as she.
Zimmerman went in Hannity the day after she came forward. Yet he did not use that opportunity to dispute her claim. Why is that?
The only proven liar here is his wife, Shellie. She was arrested for lying on his behalf in court. You know, "perjury."
In light of the above facts, please explain why the killer has so much credibility for you.
GZ said TM ran away from. It's on the taped phone call.
Moments, after which, TM was dead.
TM had no offensive injuries.
GZ never went to the hospital.
Lol at r41
GZ is on trial for murder.
TM is not.
"For example, he said he thought he was going to die from his head repeatedly being bashed into the sidewalk. But he never went to the hospital for his injuries. Never."
Maybe he wanted to avoid getting a big fat emergency room bill. I know a woman who tripped and fell down some stairs in the employee parking deck. She went to an emergency room; her injuries included a broken arm and some cuts and bruises on her face. Her emergency room bill was over eight THOUSAND dollars...and she was uninsured! Maybe Zimmerman bypassed the emergency room in order to avoid being hit with thousands of dollars in medical bills.
Pictures show Zimmerman with a bloodied head and a swollen bloody nose. So he WAS injured.
I heard that Martin had bruised knuckles which would indicate he had used his fists prior to being shot.
"No, she told her sister who told their parents. They told George's parents. They all met and George apologized to his cousin, and agreed to not attend the same family functions as she."
And you know all of this is the gospel truth how? You don't know if ANY of this is true. It's all heresay; "she told her sister" "they told George's parents"...ALL heresay.
"Zimmerman went in Hannity the day after she came forward. Yet he did not use that opportunity to dispute her claim. Why is that?"
Maybe because his lawyer told him it would be best not to talk about it? That's what ALL lawyers tell their clients: keep your mouth shut. It's good advice.
"Stand Your Ground" is one of the most idiotic ideas in recent history. It will be done away with. Anyone can kill anyone they want and claim it was self-defense and the dead person isn't around to defend themselves, so some nut job with a gun gets off? Ludicrous.
In light of the facts posted in r26, please explain why the killer has so much credibility for you.
We wouldn't be having this conversation if we were a sensible country with reasonable people. Instead we have absurdly lenient gun protocol, and unreasonable people with access to them.
R46, you heard wrong. Look at the autopsy report: no offensive injuries.
What GZ described would have put him a hospital for days. Head injuries are very serious. He said he thought he was going to die and had no choice to kill the unarmed kid who was 40 pounds lighter than himself.
See, you don't know Sanford, Fl. I do. The Zimmerman's are close family friends with the now retired state atty who got George off that night. The chief of police ruled that GZ was innocent because of SYG and turned him loose. Scot free.
But GZ still had to go through police formalities such as being interviewed. So he made up a bunch of crap because he knew he was a free man.
But eventually the news broke big. It barely registered in central Florida, who was used to police corruption in Sanford. (The previous chief's son got drunk and beat up a homeless guy. He only got in trouble after the phone video went viral.)
Finally, after international protests, GZ was arrested per a new state attorney. This time for murder two.
He became the NRA's poster child and received tens of thousands of dollars. His lawyer waived GZ's right to a speedy trial.
Then Newtown happened, and suddenly America has turned on the NRA.
We no longer tolerate men killing kids. GZ's goose is cooked.
Which is why it should be suppressed, along with anything about GZ allegedly abusing his cousin. What happened on the streets that day is the issue.
"In light of the facts posted in [R26], please explain why the killer has so much credibility for you"
WHAT fucking "facts?" The facts haven't come to light, dear. That's the point. There's been a LOT of speculation, a lot of rumors, a lot of accusations, a lot of conflicting stories and information. The "facts" haven't been determined yet. Hopefully, the trial will bring clear up a lot of things. But until then, it's pretty ignorant to say "GZ did this" and "GZ did that." No one can say with absolute certainty what happened that that day.
By the way, no one would give a damn about Trayvon Martin if this incident hadn't been trumped up into a racial issue. If Martin had been white, you can bet your ass NOBODY would be crying for George Zimmerman's blood.
Shut the fuck up, r52.
If TM had thuggish behavior in his past, the jury should hear about it.
The prosecution(and his family) don't get to paint TM as a choir boy and just have it left at that.
Zimmerman is allowed a defense. They are allowed to say...."Hey, look, he had aggressive behavior in his past. Given that and my client's head injury and eye witness testimony(Zimmerman screamed for help), it's not hard to believe that Mr. Zimmerman was jumped and had to fight for his life."
R53 you don't realize how wrong you are about that last idiotic statement. Although everything in my gut tells me this was a macho, gun-happy vigilante who fucked up royally, you are right. We do not know the facts. Only GZ knows, and hopefully the truth will come out.
But to say that no one would care about this if Martin had been white is absurd. I can only imagine the basement-dwelling jesus-lovin creeps on yahoo comment boards calling for GZ's head if GZ had been black and TM white. You know as well as I do that if TM were white this would be a MUCH bigger issue.
I don't care if TM was the thuggiest thug who ever thugged, he was unarmed.
Since WHEN is it acceptable to shoot an unarmed person?
When that unarmed person jumps you and starts slamming the back of your head into the concrete.
GZ followed the kid.
GZ uttered, "these effin coons always get away."
There were only three streets in that neighborhood. And the self-appointed "Neighborhood Watch Captain" didn't know what street he was on is...unbelievable. GZ is lying.
Gz's wife was arrested for perjury in this case.
GZ has a history of violence. Murder Two was his fourth arrest. He assaulted an under-cover cop. An ex-girlfriend got a restraining order against him. He kicked a neighbor's dog. He was fired from a job as a bouncer for roughing up a woman.
GZ molested his younger cousin for ten years. He has never denied it.
GZ's on at least two different psych meds.
GZ never went to the hospital for his "life-threatening" head injuries.
He had no reason to be suspicious of the teen.
TM was not killed anywhere near GZ's vehicle.
An ear witness heard GZ confront TM.
GZ was told not to follow the kid.
GZ's dad served in Vietnam with state attorney Wolfinger who quickly recused himself from this case when it broke big.
The only homicide defective on the scene wanted to arrest GZ but was told by the chief he could not because of SYG.
TM had no offensive injuries.
GZ said the voice crying in the background of a 911 call doesn't sound like him. The screams continue for 45 seconds and stopped suddenly upon the gun being fired. Yet GZ is nonchalant and notedly not crying when a passerby approaches him.
When is an unarmed person allowed to jump someone? When that person is stalking and chasing you thorough your dad's apartment complex with a gun demanding to know who you are, that's when.
R53, the killer would have been arrested immediately if the victim were white.
Yet GZ remained free for 45 days because of SYG.
And now his lawyer has waived SYG.
R57, that small cut on his head with no damage to bone does not indicate to me that he thought his life was in danger.
Neither does the fact that he never sought medical attention,.
Does anyone remember when the case we first reported that TM was shot in the back?
So, r56, let's just say an unarmed man grabs a woman from the streets, beats the shit out of her, and then attempts to rape her.
Are you telling me she can't pull out a hidden gun and shoot him dead?
OF COURSE SHE CAN!
There is also an important fact that GZ knew he had a gun on him so how real could his fear have been? Was he worried he wouldn't get the first shot if he were dealing with someone who had a gun?
Okay, I haven't read the whole thread but I'm shocked. I'm a lawyer, albeit not a criminal defense attorney, but in Florida the standard for a "Castle" Motion aka "Stand Your Ground" Motion is just a preponderance of the evidence. That means that the person who wins is the person whom the judge believes most. In other words, there are no elements that have to be proven. It's just whomever the judge believes. PLUS, the motion is dispositive; it could potentially get the case dismissed without a trial.
I can tell you from experience: Juries are fickle. You NEVER know what a jury is going to do, no matter how solid your case.
O'Mara is a DUMBASS not to file and argue the motion. He loses NOTHING by at least trying. DUMB move. I just don't get it.
Are there any criminal defense attorneys out there? Someone 'splain.
YES. That was Jesse Jackson and his ignorant mouth at work... AGAIN.
TM did not "grab GM from the streets, beat the shit out of him, the try to rape him".
If he got physical with GM, why is THAT not standing his ground, when he was being followed by a man with a gun, who SAID to dispatch he viewed TM as someone looking for trouble? TM was on the phone with candy and a tea, how is that looking for trouble? It isn't. GM was looking for something that night, and he got it. Unfortunately, his actions affected many more people than himself.
R54, you are too personally invested in this case. There's no need for vulgar profanity, no right to tell others to be quiet.
I wonder why you only addressed the part of my post suggesting they suppress Martin's record, and ignored my statement that the molestation accusations against Zimmerman also should be suppressed at trial?
Everyone is rooting for Zimmerman, but if he is acquitted you can be assured the darkies will riot, but who cares it's their own hoods they burn down!! ha ha haha
R58, your "facts" are dubious at best. Try not to insert everything you've read that supports your side and omit items that don't. Stop labeling as fact your interpretation of events.
Just ONE example of reppeating falsehoods:
[quote] GZ uttered, "these effin coons always get away."
That did not happen.
GZ's fear was....... can I get to my gun before my head is completely bashed in and I'm left brain damaged.
[quote] Another lie that follows the lie that he had to check the street sign. The street was in his own neighborhood, two blocks down from his house, so he did NOT need to get out of the truck to see the sign. That was a lie.
Any intelligent person who easily recognizes that lie, knows that what follows won't be the truth.
He called 911 on many people walking around his neighborhood(mostly black people) about 60 or 70 times in the past year. I think some where around 70 or 80% of the calls were about black citizens. Some investigator is going to sit down and listen or read the tapes/transcripts of each of those calls. Who wants to bet at least 5 or 10 of those calls originated on the same street where Trayvon was murdered? I'll bet he knew the name of the street on those calls with out having to check the street sign
And Zimmerman has a personality disorder. He is one of those guys who gets work as a security guard but seems to think he's a police officer and goes overboard ordering people around or violating their civil rights. He did that to a patron at a nightclub. She wouldn't listen to his bullshit so he picked her up and threw her. He broke her ankle. She sued him and won. His loser parents paid the girl. The reason she hasn't spoke to the press is that there's a confidentiality clause in the agreement. But she can testify in a criminal trial. I have a feeling she's not the only person he tried to control and ended up brutalizing them. I'm guessing the parents have settled another lawsuit or two.
[quote] the molestation accusations against Zimmerman also should be suppressed at trial?
Nothing like that will be admitted at trial.
Caught on recording
yep this tRAYvon coon was violent. He had a criminal record. ugly Nig
Thank you R75, for showing the world what we knew anyway. That bigots have IQs below 70.
And Martin's juvenile and school records should be off-limits, as well, R73. Especially since he's no longer around to address or explain his record.
[quote] If TM had thuggish behavior in his past, the jury should hear about it.
The prosecution(and his family) don't get to paint TM as a choir boy and just have it left at that.
Sure. But the only person who has thuggish behavior is George Zimmerman. Trayvon skipped school and had an empty ziplock bag the school thought might have had pot in it at one time.
Zimmerman has a violent history of assaulting people, controlling behavior and a few restraining orders. And he also has a demonstrated history of targeting/stalking black people who dare to walk in his neighborhood. Whose the thug? It's DEFINITELY the black kid who skipped school
If I was on the jury, I would vote not guilty.
Threats of riot would not intimidate me.
Martin was on top of Zimmerman. He had a right to defend himself.
How do you know he was on top?
From the guy who called 911
Free George Zimmerman
R78 you are exactly right.
Most of these posters and the freepers are just happy that someone shot some young black kid and may have the chance to get away with it. That's why I tell blacks not to move to certain areas if they don't want their kids to end up like Trayvon.
I always predicted that the election of Obama would start off a massive race war, and if Zimmerman is acquitted, blacks all over will riot their already decimated, impoverished communities, mark my words.
When was the race war after Obama was elected, R84?
I seemed to have missed it.
R85 - It's bound to happen within the next few years. Obama's not out of office yet, is he?
Bring it boy!!!! r84
r84 just wants emotion (can you say Jesse and Rev Al) and constant, immature threats of riot to over rule the facts....
and that just ain't gonna happen.
Blacks love their intimidation
As if Hispanics, Asians, hell even other non-hillbilly whites would stand with you, R87.
Oh trust me r90, NO one likes blacks!!!
I believe they would r90.
The country is damn sick of this "give us the verdict we want/demand or we'll riot" entitlement.
Go ahead and riot. Liquor stores can fortify in advance and the National Guard can be on standby to protect citizens in the Florida area.
Keep telling yourself that, Bubba.
More freeper paranoia in display. Different day.
And i believe Obama will go out of his way and condemn the blacks for their chimp out
Darkies make up only 12% of the population, do they really think they will win in a race war???
I doubt it R90. The Mexicans aren't crazy about whites, they want to take back what they feel whites took from them, (land)
Asians generally don't stick their necks out on behalf of non Asians.
r94, 95, an angry crack addicted black man
R97 - No, too many whites are armed to the teeth and prepared for such uprisings. Nigras won't dare venture out to parts of the country with lots of armed citizens to stir up anything they'll just burn down their ghetto neighborhoods like they always do, or the gentrified yuppie neighborhoods full of liberals who are always catering to their every need.
r98, oh please!!! There is major turf wars between blacks and hispanics in L.A. and NYC. Hispanics are family oriented and hard working something blacks are not. NO ONE LIKES BLACKS BITCH!!!
Hey freeper, how does it feel waking up every morning knowing your president is black??
It must kill you. Lol. It must totally kill you!
"Relative to black on black crime, the most recent government statistics indicated that “43% of all murder victims in 2007 were African American, 93.1% of whom were killed were African Americans.”
Why aren't these statistics getting the same coverage as Trayvon/Zimmerman?
[quote] I thought "housing estate" was the UK equivalent of "project."
No, those are "council estates."
I never said Hispanics liked blacks.
But make no mistake, they don't like whites either. They want to be us, because we are socially and financially better off, but they do not like us.
[quote] Go ahead and riot. Liquor stores can fortify in advance and the National Guard can be on standby to protect citizens in the Florida area.
It's Florida. Why would we want to protect the idiots who live there?
r102, well considering unemplyoment for blacks is 25% I am elated! Also, Obama is half white! a full on darkie could never win the WH!!!
51% of the vote, freeper........a black man.....
Somebody obviously likes blacks.....
Everyday, losers. Every day.
R103, BECAUSE PC rules prevent them from seeing the truth
Damn, r101, you beat me to it.
Mexicans definitely aren't crazy about blacks either. Or hasn't r90 heard of the massive fights between blacks and hispanics in various high schools through out the country?
Every day. Every.Day.
r110, thanks bro
That's why I laugh at blacks who think that there will ever be a "black-on-brown" alliance. Blacks are always looking to other races to lift them up from their fuck-ups. Hispanics don't have the best interests of blacks at heart, and the gang wars in Los Angeles prove what will happen to blacks in other parts of the country as mexicans take over. Texas will have some problems on its hands as native blacks in Dallas and Houston clash with the ever increasing invasion of illegal mexicans.
R110, what you and101 don't get is that as much as Mexicans don't like blacks, they will not stick their necks out on behalf of whites. They don't like us either.
Then why are you bitching about an idiotic, Florida citizen who got shot, r106?
This is why Mexicans in such large numbers is bad news for blacks AND whites in the U.S.
Blacks gave us prop 8!!
OK let the bubbas argue among themselves about the Mexicans.
Seeing you shake in your boots is very satisfying, boys.
Are you getting the idea that your white skin means less and less each day.... sorry about that. Maybe you'll have to actually accomplish something to feel good about yourselves. I'm white, but its never been about my skin color. Were your parents losers too?
Anyway, good luck on that self-esteem thing. You work on it.
When you wake up, your President will still be black, though.
Sister Jude, R118 is due for electro-convulsive therapy.
Seems to me you're the one wetting your pants and throwing out stupid asides.
r121 so true
[quote]That's why I laugh at whites who think that there will ever be a "white-on-brown" alliance. Whites are always looking to other races to lift them up from their fuck-ups. Hispanics don't have the best interests of whites at heart, and the gang wars in Los Angeles prove what will happen to whites in other parts of the country as mexicans take over. Texas will have some problems on its hands as native whites in Dallas and Houston clash with the ever increasing invasion of illegal mexicans.
Learn Spanish boys...
R105 got it right. We are in for a Mexican future.
shut up nigger at 123, 124
I like Mexicans WAY more than blacks
And if you think the blacks were bad, you'll be missing them when you're living in New Tijuana.
Like a black would take it upon himself to learn Spanish.
They can't even be bothered to finish high school!
R123 - What was the point of "fixing" that post? Texas is already a majority-minority state and whites fled Dallas and Houston to the suburbs decades ago and regard Latinos as the cheap labor that blacks don't do anymore. Face it, blacks are fucked there, too bad the truth hurts you so much.
I'm a Jew, not a nigger, so suck my asshole you cow fucker.
Lots of Hispanics are black dumbass.
They can't speak/write English, yet you want them to learn Spanish?
This has gotten interesting!!
Thanks, R104. It's weird to see "estates" used so differently than we use it here.
Buckingham Palace would be more of an estate in the US than either your "council estate" or the townhouse development where Trayvon died. Here, an estate is a super-posh place to live.
The title of this thread needs to be changed to: More Pathetic Idiotic Ramblings From the Forever Lazy and Stupid, Tragically Brain Dead KKK Girls of Data Lounge.
I'm going to send a note over to the grand wizard and see if I can get some more meetings scheduled for you girls to attend. Hopefully that will leave you less time to post here. You're really dragging the collective I.Q. of Data Lounge down with your nonsensical post.
It is truly sad to see people who are so angry and filled with so much hate. It must be exhausting carrying that bitterness and hate around each day. It would be nice if you would go somewhere and take a permanent nap.
check out chimpout.com
There's a real lot of old, scared white people here.
Not really, r139. Just a couple of sad trolls freaking out because they're quickly becoming a minority class, and are impotent.
GZ is toast.
He overplayed his hand.
There is mountains of evidence to disprove his claims. The trolls choose to instead focus on irrelevant details hoping to obfuscate and confuse the case.
My bet is that he'll end up copping a plea. This won't even go to trial.
SYG was his only hope.
"But to say that no one would care about this if Martin had been white is absurd. I can only imagine the basement-dwelling jesus-lovin creeps on yahoo comment boards calling for GZ's head if GZ had been black and TM white. You know as well as I do that if TM were white this would be a MUCH bigger issue."
GZ is white/Hispanic. If he'd shot a white teenager, there would have been no outcry.
If GZ was black and shot a white teenager, it wouldn't have been considered a big deal. It would have just been seen as one of those things that can happen when two volatile people cross paths.
But since GZ is white and TM was black it's considered a RACIAL crime, a HATE crime. THAT is why this murder had been made into such a big deal. Because of RACE.
The whole basis for all the GZ hatred is that he's a crazed racist who went out looking for a black person to kill, came upon TM and decided "I wanna kill a black person...you'll do!" Boy, are they going to have a hard time proving THAT in court.
Trayvon Martin is so last year, much like Casey Anthony.
Hispanics are a minority r141, and they're not white.
And if he's found not guilty, r140, what kind of clownish hissy fit will you throw?
Well, the NYT described Zimmerman as a white hispanic.....
just so they could work the word white in there.
white vs black just had a much better ring for them, don't ya know!
[quote]Blacks gave us prop 8!!
No they didn't.
The black community has been at odds with Jews, Asians, whites, gays, and Hispanics for awhile. Philly had the whole black vs. Asian thing for years. It's extremely ugly. That's the thing with Zimmerman. He ain't white. What's really going on here, if anything -- if you want to make this a race relations case, it's Hispanics vs. blacks.
A lot of people were pissed that they made Trayvon out to be an angel, especially with those photos. He had a rap sheet. Does that mean he should have been killed? ABSOLUTELY NOT. However, it helped fuel even more outrage. People thought they were seeing the image of a little black kid who was gun downed by an adult. People have a knee-jerk reaction when they hear about a 'child.' They were using ancient photographs of him, and they, the media, were absolutely doing it on purpose. The media plays the public for fools. They do this for ratings.
NBC editing those tapes also didn't help matters. I don't know what they were thinking.
I hope Florida gets rid of its law. That is one fucked up state.
Jodi Arias is where it's at.
R140, the only violence that has occurred because of this case was white on black:
Murder, hate crime charges in Tulsa shooting spree
Updated 4/13/2012 7:20 PM
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) – Two men accused of going on a shooting spree that terrorized the predominantly black north side of this Oklahoma city face murder and hate crime charges, prosecutors said Friday in an announcement praised by community leaders who had called for swift action by authorities.
Jacob England, left, and Alvin Watts were charged Friday in shootings that killed three people in Tulsa last weekend.
Jake England, 19, and his roommate, Alvin Watts, 33, each were charged with three counts of first-degree murder, two counts of shooting with intent to kill and five counts of malicious harassment, prosecutors said. The harassment counts allege the victims were targeted because of their race.
"I think that it's an embrace, a symbolic embrace of the serious nature of the crime," said Democratic State Representative Seneca Scott, who attended a Friday meeting with area ministers and civil rights activist Jesse Jackson. "Sad as it is, it's a real victory for justice."
Jackson planned to stay in Tulsa for a Saturday community worship service.
The charges were announced two days after second-degree murder charges were brought in another racially charged case, the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida. That case sparked nationwide outrage and weeks of protests over the delay in charging neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman, who shot the unarmed teenager in a gated community on Feb. 26. Zimmerman has claimed self-defense.
[quote]in predominately black neighborhoods
Oh, dearest dear. She actually writes for a living.
For the 1 millionth fucking time, George Zimmerman is not white. He is mestizo Hispanic. The media is calling him white because it fits the agenda they want to push. If you saw this guy on the street and had no idea who the hell he was, you would say he is mestizo.
exactly r151, but the media SO SO wants a race war!!! whites are the oppressed now
[quote]He is mestizo Hispanic.
My sister was a mezzo-soprano but she wasn't good enough to make a career out of it. She's a housewife now and has rage issues.
r151 & r150, you're tilting at windmills becaus it doesn't matter if GZ is technically white or just appears white when he's chasing you in the dark with a gun.
What did TM do to arouse the suspicion of GZ? Did he damage any property? Did he have stolen property or drugs on his corpse? Did he kick a dog, like GZ did back in the day?
And he did say, "these effin coons always get away." Google it.
Regardless of whether Zimmerman is white Hispanic or mestizo Hispanic in appearance, didn't they find evidence that he had 30-some previous times called the police about "suspicious people" in the neighborhood? And weren't every single one of the "suspicious people" black?
That's racism on his part no matter his color.
I wonder what GZ would do if he could re-live the evening that he killed TM?
He'd probably make sure that his second passport was much better hidden...
I'm with R154 on this.
Having said that, Zimmerman' brother was on Bill Maher's show a few months ago, and I was thinking that he was a pretty good looking guy.
But there was something about him that made me wonder . . .
Is George's brother gay?
I don't know who created this, but think there's much of a bias?
He's fat and ugly and has an uncut dick, so you know he stinks from farts and uncut smegma
[quote]Regardless of whether Zimmerman is white Hispanic or mestizo Hispanic in appearance, didn't they find evidence that he had 30-some previous times called the police about "suspicious people" in the neighborhood? And weren't every single one of the "suspicious people" black?
Do your homework, then give us a link, hon.
It did come out that there was a serious of break-ins all committed by black teens in the area. Most people had their antennas up. Zimmerman's father had a close relationship with the police department. He still has a lot of pull. What I'm worried about is the court system caving to public pressure, and finding Zimmerman guilty to appease the public. They need to follow the rule of law, not join lynch mob mentality. These jurors know their lives are in danger if they don't find him guilty. The media desperately wants a race war for ratings.
r162, and so does Obama admin. so they can declare Marshall lAW
Based on the facts it was man slaughter and Zimmerman should be punished for that.
Wrong R162, the police say that only 3 of those break-ins had black suspects.
So what if there had been recent break-ins in the neighborhood? Zimmerman was not a cop and should not have approached Trayvon -- even the 911 operator told him to back off!
Traycoon was a thug
R162 needs to do his own "homework."
The New Minority has arrived.
I agree with you r162 that the only outcome for this can be guilty or else there will be a riot or something. Too bad people will have to base their judgement on fear.
If they had any clear judgement they would vote him guilty because he is guilty.
Not everyone is as paranoid as you New Minority members.
Stop trying to make New Minority happen..
It works for me, R172.
He's being railroaded becuse he's a man. No way can they convict him.
[quote]Wrong [R162], the police say that only 3 of those break-ins had black suspects.
Yes, three. That's a series of break-ins, numbnuts! I love how you use 'only'. That's so typically America.
Because there were 8 total break-ins you complete ass.
[quote]If they had any clear judgement they would vote him guilty because he is guilty.
The law may state differently. I know he's not using the Stand Your Ground defense, but if he were, he would easily be acquitted. That's how the law is written. It's fucked up beyond belief, but you can't just find someone guilty because you don't like what they did. You need to back up your verdict using the law on the books, no matter how treacherous it is. Enough with the Nancy Grace-ing of America.
[quote]He's being railroaded becuse he's a man. No way can they convict him.
Men get convicted all the time.
[quote]Because there were 8 total break-ins you complete ass.
[quote]Based on the facts it was man slaughter and Zimmerman should be punished for that.
That's what the Stand Your Ground law is all about. If you feel threatened, you can shoot to kill. The problem is, is your fear reasonable? That varies from person to person. It is such a broad law that you can get away with anything.
Means you are a lunatic, R179,
But we suspected that.
[quote]And he did say, "these effin coons always get away." Google it.
HE DID NOT SAY THAT.
Now, you've outed yourself as knowing nothing about the case. Jesus Christ.
That was debunked a long time ago. I can't believe you would try to use such rubbish. The media doesn't remind anyone of it anymore because it wasn't true. This is the same media that keeps doctoring the tapes as well.
[quote]But we suspected that.
We = the voices in your head.
Funny how no white gun enthusiasts ever say Trayvon Martin should have carried a gun, so that he could shoot & kill George Zimmerman first when Zimmerman accosted him. Stand Your Ground knows no color, right?
The rest of the posters shielding their eyes from your yellow, R183.
What a lot of you seem to be saying is anything other than a Not Guilty verdict means the jury was either ignorant, impressionable, or afraid. That's straight sandbagging.
You know, the if the jury votes Guilty, it may be the evidence actually points to his criminal culpability.
If they find Not Guilty, it could be that's how the evidence reads.
What a concept!
R182, exactly how do you know what he did or didn't say? You weren't there. It's incredibly bizarre the irrelevancies and minutiae that his defenders wrap themselves up in as more and more of his credibility falls away; yet their emotional identification with George Zimmerman, Scared White Guy, won't allow them to simply acknowledge that he shot an unarmed teen-ager for no legally defensible reason. I don't care how much pot Trayvon Martin supposedly smoked or how unnerving you find photos of him with a hoodie on.
What is up with R183? He seems to have a personal stake in this. Is he Zimmerman? A relative? Someone who suffers from a similar mental illness to Zimmerman? Relax sweetie and take your meds.
[quote][R182], exactly how do you know what he did or didn't say? You weren't there. It's incredibly bizarre the irrelevancies and minutiae that his defenders wrap themselves up in as more and more of his credibility falls away; yet their emotional identification with George Zimmerman, Scared LATINO Guy, won't allow them to simply acknowledge that he shot an unarmed teen-ager for no legally defensible reason. I don't care how much pot Trayvon Martin supposedly smoked or how unnerving you find photos of him with a hoodie on.
My guess is that the gun lobby told him ixnay on the andstay ouryay oundgray because they do NOT want to trigger any legal challenge to that law, which has helped them sell a shitload of consumer firearms. Whatever he pleads George is going to walk anyway, that's for sure. As with so many high-profile cases this is one that would have been quietly dropped down the memory hole by the local authorities if the nosy national media hadn't decided to make a circus out of it, forcing them to go through the motions of a trial.
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