It looks like they may not make it to summer. Was this downfall all caused by CEO Ron Johnson's "no more sales" pricing strategy, or were they going down anyway? Has anyone ruined a company so quickly?
It's the lesbian promoting the stores! We took it down!
It started with that stupid no sale shit which was confusing as hell (no sales but there are sales every first Friday of the month--you just have to wait). Before that, my local JCP was crowded but since then, it's like a ghost town in there.
Whoever made up that no sales pitch owes big money to JCP.
The problem is that they trained their customers for YEARS to wait for sales, use coupons, other discounts, etc., and then did a 180 and stopped it all cold. They were their own worst enemy.
JCPenney customers are not the same as Apple customers.
Even though JCP was treading water before this guy came on board, Johnson and his stupidity may well be the final nail in the coffin.
Yet he will walk away with millions in salary and benefits and long time employees will be tossed out on the streets with nothing.
This is why I hate America today.
JCPenney was dying a slow death anyway. Changes had to be made. Johnson has some good ideas, but it was too much too soon. He turned off the core customer before he could attract new. Also its hard to move forward with the atmosphere inside HQ is one of anxiety and mistrust. Layoff rumor are constant. And the culture now is that unless you're from NY or SF, you are an idiot who has no idea what you are doing.
They moved their housewares into separate JC Penney Home Stores and they really don't sell housewares nice enough that someone who's going to the mall will make a side trip to the JCP Home Store outside the mall.
Lesbihonest, it was Ellen who tanked JC Penney.
It was those screaming ads when the no sales stuff started.
I've got some great shirts that were marked down dramatically after Christmas this year at Penneys.
I had not been inside a Penneys in years, and I was impressed.
I hope they make it.
I like the new ad campaign with the compare and contrast concept. I did go into Penney's about two years ago (or whenever the Ellen thing happened) and thought some of the clothes were ok but not enough to make me buy.
Department stores are really a dying breed, aren't they? Only the high-end ones have a model that works now.
r11, I like the idea of the compare and contrast, but I'm just watching these commercials and thinking, "Which t-shirt is going to last longer?" Unfortunately, probably the more expensive one, as it's likely made with better quality materials and constructed better. I'm willing to spend the few extra bucks on a shirt that won't fade, lose shape, or come apart after a few months. Although there are some stores where the quality on their cheap clothes really is great, you'll usually be getting a 5 buck t-shirt for 5 bucks.
A friend and I compared different experiences with a recent JCPenney visit. We both encountered terrible customer service and difficulty finding a cashier to make purchases. There are plenty of people desperately needing any work in my city, so what's with the incompetent hiring and training practices? If you shop at Macy's, most sales personnel act like they really appreciate your business. Plus with their sales and discounts, Macy's is usually cheaper for better quality items.
My office window overlooks a mall, and the JC Penny is front and center. The section of the lot in front of JC Penny is completely empty, even when the rest of the lot is almost full.
Macy's is under boycott... google "Dump Trump".
I like JCP. Their stafford shirts and store brand cloths last, reasonable fashion and priced right. What more could a gay on a budget want? I'm not a snob and can't afford to be.
I don't think they made too many mistakes. They are just in a tough spot competitively. Downscale retailers like Wal Mart and Costco are sucking away their low end consumers, and higher end stores are far more reasonably priced than they used to be. It just leaves JCP kind of nowhere.
R3, It wasn't really JC Penny who trained their customers to shop sales, use coupons, etc. It was Macy's. They did this whole behavioral modification campaign with customers in the 1980s. Unfortunately, the trend spread to other retailers. At this point, customers are really Pavlovian dogs that respond every time a retailer rings a bell. I really think we should be like Europe and allow sales twice a year, and only twice a year.
I like their underwear and tshirts. The store layouts are much cleaner and brighter now.
My god it's Saks or nothing.
Sears did this same thing in the late eighties and it sucked. People have to see the word SALE.
[quote]The store layouts are much cleaner and brighter now.
The store layouts now are so plain and sparse. And there selection seems shitty now (at least in the Men's Department).
[quote] Re: What's happening to JCPenney?
Blame Ellen Degenerate.
One of the million moms
My father worked in retail for years. He says JCP has no pizazz, there's really no reason to shop there. We stopped in over Xmas and he was aghast at the lack of holiday decorations. (Yes, I know, Mary!)
Over Xmas, I got a handful of those buttons that were supposed to be redeemed online, but never had the time to bother looking them up. The buttons went into the trash. If they had slapped a coupon directly into my hand, I probably would have used it.
Their commercials are puzzling to me. First they spent how much money on Ellen, just to tell us that you could return merchandise to them... okay. Then there were ads where I couldn't figure out what they were trying to sell. Now they're trying to tell me they're another version of Ross, where they carry the same merchandise other stores carry, only cheaper. And when I try to look at the clothing in the commercial... the logo is smack dab in the middle, so I can't see the clothing.
They have ruined a good middle class brand. I love their Stafford shirts, but when I try to order a shirt, they never have it in stock. This absence of stock issue is common. So I wrote Mr. Johnson about my loyalty from recent frustration. It took two months for a form letter to be returned to me. "He" never really tried to give an answer, but asked that I give them another try. JCP...you are DOA!
I hadn't been to a JC Penney in years, but I got a little catalog in the mail and I liked some of the stuff, so I went. The main blazer I wanted they didn't have, but I wound up getting another groovy blazer, two shirts and a pair of jeans. ALL FOR $125. I wasn't sure of the prices until I got to the check out and they were much less than I had calculated, for some reason. They were all nice and I've gotten compliments on them.
The staff was pretty helpful, and the store was nicely laid out--much less cluttered and jumbled than Macy's. I'd love to be able to afford to shop somewhere more high end, but I can't. I hope they make it, too.
They're not closing OP. Do your homework next time.
R29, when I do a search for men's regular-size, button-down short-sleeve shirts on the JCP, Kohl's and Macy's websites, here are the number of styles available:
Care to explain what's going on here?
Half of jcp.com is out of stock. And they will leave something that's out of stock up on their website for months.
I ordered over $300 of merchandise from JC Penny.
They shipped it to me via UPS and didn't require a signature. The UPS driver dumped it on the floor and it was stolen.
I called up JC Penny and they said, "No problem we'll take it off your bill." They credited me immediately then asked, "Would you like to reorder it?"
THIS is why they are losing money.
Normally, signatures are not required on deliveries unless it is a controlled substance, like testosterone.
Last time I went in there it looked...empty. Not nearly as much stock as I'm used to seeing. I could always go there I can find something I live, but this this there was nothing at all that interested me. Several brands I liked have been discontinued. If this is what they're going to do, then they deserve to go under. It's REALLY fucked up now.
So if I need housewares I have to go to a separate store?
I'm done with them. Going to Montgomery Ward from now on.
Their quality has gone to hell, and it wasn't much to begin with. Their merchandise used to be middling, now it's about the same quality as Ross.
For years I've bought the same things there: undershirts, white workout socks and cheap jeans (the Arizona brand has good cheap jeans for about $20 a pair).
The last few times I've gone there the store has gone from looking inexpensive but tidy to really chewed-up, like a Kmart.
I went to the men's shoes department to ring up my socks and half the display shelves were empty, there was crap all over the floor and a small mob of about 12 shoppers all clustered around the cashier -- which was weird because the store was nearly empty. So I walked around and found a cashier in women's wear who only had one customer. The customer was blessing her out -- "This is the last time I ever shop here, and I've shopped here all my life!"
On the positive side, my socks rang up for half-off (which was indicated nowhere on the tag or on the shelf). I grabbed 'em and got out.
[quote]I'm done with them. Going to Montgomery Ward from now on.
I don't know if you're joking or not, but they do actually still have an online store.
People like sales, love sales.
It's better to have something with an everyday price of $50 and often have it on sale, than it is to have it available everyday for, say, $35 and never or rarely have it on sale. I never understood why JCP didn't realize this. Macy's certainly does, since they constantly have sales.
Also it helps perceptions of quality since many people, even if often wrong, equate price and quality. If you buy something on sale for $29.99 that was marked down from $49.99, in people's minds, they are getting something that is $49.99 quality.
If it is simply priced at $29.99, people think they're getting something of lesser quality. Again, we all know that price doesn't always equate with quality, but a LOT of people consciously or subconsciously act on the price-quality thing when shopping.
It's shopping psychology.
I'm amazed that JCP lasted this long to begin with. I don't know how good it is for women in terms of clothes, makeup, etc., so I can't speak to that.
Men's clothes are pretty unexciting and middling quality, but, as someone else says, things like basic jeans, socks, underwear are fine.
Bed and bath, while nothing extraordinary, can be okay, and they have some okay home stuff.
But, it just seems so dated, and I don't know how they can shake that without renaming/rebranding the stores, which would be a huge risk.
Last time I walked through my JCPenny it was a ghost town and most of the checkout areas had been ripped out.
It was also hotter than Hades in there!
My 85 year old mother bought a lovely swimsuit at the JCP in Palm Desert recently.
Perhaps they've missed their demographic.
JCP is now on the cheap and it shows
Wow, that Montgomery Ward site is bizarre. What a weird collection of items!
You're not kidding, r45. This is the front page of their "Men's" department.
[quote]Last time I walked through my JCPenny it was a ghost town and most of the checkout areas had been ripped out.
Ron Johnson is taking the no sales pricing and roaming checkout clerks from the Apple Store and applying it to JCP. They are planning to completely eliminate checkout counters. This just seems really, really dumb.
JCPenney is a death's door.
Worst EVER online retailer.
They sent me an email hawking their window treatments yesterday. I saw the type of bamboo blinds I was looking for in the color I wanted. I put one in the shopping bag and then thought, "Wait. Let me go downstairs and measure the width just to be sure."
I went downstairs, measured, got waylaid by my cats and fed them. Put seeds in the bird feeder. Took a quick shower, came back upstairs and tried to add two more blinds to my shopping bag. That's when I saw they'd taken the first blind out i ordered of my shopping bag, WTF? So I added three instead of two.
"Sorry, that item is no longer available."
The FUCK? They'd sent me the email about an hour earlier. I'd put a set of blinds in my shopping bag 45 minutes ago. And they're fucking sold out? Since when does JC Penney sell out of a common color in a common window size within an hour and doesn't even offer to back order? They've been known as a store for window treatments for 40 or 50 years! They should have plenty of common sized and colored blinds in stock and be ready to place more on back order.
They're still offering the sold-out blinds today, so that more people can go through the hassle of measuring their windows then finding out there are no more blinds after trying to order them.
They're trying to kill the business. I really hate America. Tried and true business practices have been discarded in favor of embezzlement in the form of Chapter 11 and liquidation.
They got rid of half of their merchandise for starters. The stores where I live have such an empty look to them it isn't even funny. Too much emphasis on the younger crowd and not enough on anyone over twenty five. The kids aren't going to JCPenney's to shop.
You used to be able to find some quirky gift items in there too. All of which is also gone.
I didn't want to pay a lot of money for a rug I was putting under a desk to protect the floor, so I ordered one from jcp. When it arrived (with no notification that the order had been completed and it had shipped), it was a completely different color from the name and depiction on the website.
Weeks ago, I wrote a review of the rug to let people know it was nothing like what the website depicted. They never published it.
JC Penny thought of itself as an upscale version of (get this) TARGET>>>>
Target is an upscale version of Walmart.
And frankly all three stores with Kohls are junk.
Want REAL GOOD clothes, you have Barneys, Saks, Brooks Brothers.
I like their towels and bathmats.
My family always frequented JC Penney's, especially after one opened near my home. I had been going there less and less lately because of their lack of selection of casual clothes for women. I'm in my late 20s so aside from some simple tees, juniors clothing seemed too young and the women's casual shirts seemed too old. I would go there for pants or some other items but I would buy most casual shirts from H & M or Old Navy (although I haven't bothered with that store much lately.)
However, I went to JCP recently to pick up something I needed and I noticed the store was much brighter and the selection of casual shirts was much more likeable. I didn't buy any shirts though because I had just scored some awesome deals at Macy's. A new Macy's is being built right next door to this particular JCP so who knows what the future holds for that location.
I actually like JCP merchandising much more than Macy's.
Macy's merchandise is presented like schlock.
Given my choice my Penney's and Macy's, I'll choose Penney's. At least Penney's doesn't have that jerked off asshole Donald Trump as a spokesman.
The sad reality is I haven't been in either store in more than a decade even though both are at a mall 2 miles from my house.
They've done nothing to update the JCP at the mall I go to. It's like shopping in Buffalo Bill's basement.
I love that the new Einstein CEO thought that he could run JCP like The Apple Store -- and that JCP customers were like Apple customers.
I actually like their women's stuff and appreciate the bridge lines from places like Mango the Olsens that they have. Compared to Target (which is on par or worse than H&M at times) their fabrics hold up pretty well. I think they're a hidden gem of down/mid market everyday staples that are somewhat on trend for women.
I had not been to a JCPenney in years ... until today, because I was looking for bedroom drapes.
Maybe they were short staffed, but I had to wait over 20 minutes while the older woman working in housewares was available to help me. Then it turned out the drapes I was interested in were not in stock. She offered to order them for me, but I said no.
I went to Sears (another store I had not gone to in years) and they had drapery panels on sale for $15 each! A salesperson was there to help me right away and she got all my needs figured out. Sears was better, faster, and cheaper.
The store nearest to me is all torn up -- especially in the housewares deparment where there are signs promising new departments featuring Martha Stewart and Bodum mini-stores.
I agree with, r53.
I like their bed linens as well.
For the money charged, it's good value.
If JCP is losing customers to Sears, then they really are in deep shit.
Who goes to JCP? 60+ year old women looking for cheap shoes. Their customer base is dying.
I hope they can survive this. They have the best action in their men's room at my hometown, and I'd be sad to see that disappear. For some reason, it's been a hot spot since the seventies, enduring all kinds of changes, restructurings and remodels. Generations of gay men of all ages have passed through those squeaky - and properly alerting - doors.
R62, JCP's are my least favorite sheets. Even after washing them 14 times, a set of JCP sheets retained so much of its No Ironing Needed chemicals, I was too anesthetized to move them off my body while I was theoretically awake.
R66. Have you bought your michfest pass?
R65, which store?
r68, would hate to divulge a cruise spot (even though management has dealt with it for decades in a way that kind of doesn't scare the customers but doesn't get rid of the action either). But suffice it to say it's nowhere near New York, LA, Chicago, Miami, or any other big gay meccas (cruise spots don't last long in those towns).
JCP locations near me are almost completely updated and pleasant. Housewares still in progress. The new, low-all-the-time pricing for decent work clothes has been good for me. I can't afford Saks and Macy's has become more shoddy and overpriced. Can't speak to anything but clothes at JCP, and I wouldn't go there to look young and trendy, but I'm not, so that suits me.
This thread should be required reading for Ron Johnson.
Salesbottoms and Retailtops on the DL see all!
Being a person of size, I appreciated the fact that they were one of the few moderately-priced options for Big and Tall apparel. But they've messed that up, somewhat, too. I have bought a lot of St. John's Bay tees and polos, but now they've introduced a new store brand for the Big and Tall stuff ("Foundry") and the selection (at least in the stores) is not nearly as good. But they're better than Kohl's in that area, anyway.
[quote]Perhaps they've missed their demographic.
You're joking, but there's a lot of truth in that. Young people are never going to shop at JCP in droves, they have too many other options. Meanwhile, the options for the older customers who were JCP's base are dwindling rapidly. They've got to shop somewhere, and they have store loyalty, unlike the kiddies. Alienating them so thoroughly while failing to capture the new demo is going to be the end of the chain.
Consumer report lIkes their men's dress shirts-they are really inexpensive and wash well.
If JCPenney does go out of business it will mark the final death nail in the mall era of retail. Every mall in America has a JC Penney, a Sears or a Macy's as an anchor store. Excluding these behemoths, most local malls today have high vacancy rates. I have noticed that even former mall tenants who were profitable and had high traffic have chosen to leave the mall and relocate to nearby strip malls down the road to save on the exorbitant rents. With the loss of so many anchor stores there and nothing to fill the empty space, there will be no reason for consumers to go into malls whatsoever and many will face the wrecking ball. With the exception of the high end of the market, the dept store retail model no longer works or is it profitable.
[quote]Ron Johnson officially OUT!
And no one here even suspected him of being gay!
They're struggling because the economy is bad and consumers are morons.
JCP has better quality, more variety, and they don't make customers jump like trained Chihuahuas for coupons. I worked at Macy's for years and the sales and coupons are for suckers. That stuff should be marked down on day one.
kohl's is stealing their customer base -duh
CEOs are pretty much worthless, right? I mean, it seems they're never punished for failure.
The one near where I live got rid of their registers. You have to track down an employee while they're cleaning or stocking, and they have a little scanner to check you out. Incredibly irritating.
What r76 said
I rather shop at Nordstrom or bloomigdales.
[quote] The one near where I live got rid of their registers. You have to track down an employee while they're cleaning or stocking, and they have a little scanner to check you out. Incredibly irritating.
All the big stores have done this. The big secret seems to be that there are maybe 6 or 7 employees on the floor in a big mall store these days.
[quote]CEOs are pretty much worthless, right? I mean, it seems they're never punished for failure.
He'll probably get a nice offer from some other company to become their CEO.
Of course the OMM cunts will claim responsibility.
I walked into a JC Penney's last year and thought I had walked into a market in Tijuana.
Really cheap looking clothes--I mean garish colors and very flimsy, cheap material. There were clothes all over the floor, as they have been rummaged through and dumped with no one to pick things up. Awful.
Obviously Jc Penney had understood their market as lower-income immigrants and catered to their tastes however, they're not buying anymore and probably sew their own clothes or get them in TJ.
It seems that JC Penney is not only only company in the dumps. I have noticed that the number of catalogs beings sent out from all the apparel companies has drastically reduced since the beginning of 2013. I have not seen a catalog from JCrew in months. Even a big catalog sender like L.L. Bean has reduced the number of catalogs it sends out to maybe one a month. No one must be buying the $85 shirts that JCrew hawks. The most useless catalog offender Restoration Hardware must have nearly put themselves out of business publishing those 700 page books last year as they have not sent out a catalog since. It is a testament to the recovering economy that really isn't recovering.
I'm old. I remember when JCPenny had these HUGE catalogs. Fall, Christmas, Summer (probably others too). They were like Vogue magazines and the models in them were gorgeous. The men had a Mad Men look to them and the women were supermodel material. The makeup was artistic. A whole page dedicated to one outfit/pose. They'd pose wearing the most exquisite clothing. Tweed, velvet, silk. They were so sophisticated.
Montgomery Ward catalog, crammed with as many items per page made it look cheap.
I know this has nothing to do with what's wrong w/JCPenny.
OMG, this might be my first thread ever to make 100 posts. I'm so excited.
Cue Pointer Sister singing "I'm so excited"
I went to one of their stores recently. It was very barren and what merchandise was there looked flimsy and cheap. Such a shame...you used to be able to buy "basic, unfussy" clothing, as one article put it, at JC Penney. Now their clothes are just trendy junk.
I loved the old JC Penney catalogs, especially the Christmas ones. Sears used to have a wonderful Christmas catalog too; it was called the "wishbook." Now both of those stores might cease to exist soon. Sad indeed.
[quote]OMG, this might be my first thread ever to make 100 posts. I'm so excited.
I don't know anything about JC Penney, but I'll post just to help make your ambition come to fruition.
& here's to your continued success at creating 100+ post threads, OP.
I've never heard of a store getting rid of their registers. What kind of stupidity is that? Do the employees carry shopping bags with them to bag stuff?
just posting to help OP reach a milestone.
Local JC Penny has not eliminated the registers just yet. The store was remodeled and actually looks quite nice and clean. Much cleaner that Macy's. The clothes were organized and neat. Don't know what the problem is. I did buy some socks that did not hold up though.
The business papers are hinting that this is all in preparation for taking Penny private via a leveraged buyout.
Maybe that was the plan all along?
it's hedge fund.
Exactly, r95. I can understand doing it in an Apple store where most sales are iPhones or a computer that comes in a box with a handle. But if you've got an armload of clothes where are you going to set them so the cashier can scan them? On the floor? Some business models just don't translate.
[quote] OMG, this might be my first thread ever to make 100 posts. I'm so excited.
Imagine how shocked I was when I started a thread called "Dead Bodies on Mount Everest" and it got filled up and spilled over into a second thread.
And Kohl's has the right idea, making its aisles wide enough for shopping carts. They do everything right to attract shoppers -- discounts, Kohls cash, fast moving checkouts, nice middle aged lady cashiers.
But I don't like their inventory. It's too bad really, because it's a somewhat pleasant store.
I swear Macy's puts poison gas in their ventilation system.
JCPenney has wonderful foundation garments that keep everything in place under my caftan.
I don't shop at JCP, but when they got boycotted by right wing fundamentalists I thought I'd give them a little business. My first order was the last. First, it took two weeks from the day I ordered online for the shirts and shorts to reach me. WTF?
When the clothes arrived, I found their idea of a size medium was [italic]enormous[/italic]. I just donated the stuff to a local thrift shop and let it go, but I never ordered anything from there again.