- Thank you OP! I love the title.
- Someone on the last thread mentioned Dr. Drew and how the jurors seemed to be over her based on a court observer he had on. I wanted to say that the idiots on the Jodi is innocent site actually thought Drew was a cool guy until now, which is all we need to know about them. Someone said something like , " I can't believe Dr. Drew has turned into one of those judgmental pricks on HLN, I used to love him, no more!" So they were good with him until now.
- Here is Part 1.
- There are people who think that whore is innocent? Does anyone watch the Nancy Grace Mysteries show? Because I can't get enough of that handcuff necklace she wears. She should give it to Jodi.
- Thank you for starting this. The word 'quacking' has been become synonymous to me whenever I see this story in any media form.
- Agree r5 And I love the whole title of this with the Mormons and outrage. Well done.
r4 I don't know how to link though I tried, there is a site called Jodiariasisinnocent.com with all kinds of weird conspiracy theorist Jodi backers.
- So according to one of the HLN talking heads (can't remember which), the crap she's spewing about loving him and not wanting to ever say or write bad things about him - they have some expert psychoanalyst (or some such profession) who will be taking the stand (hopefully before Easter if this bitch ever shuts up) to say that she is a textbook case of a victim.
Victim of what exactly, I'm not sure. Even her lies don't go far enough to say that she was a physically battered woman. Unless this head shrinker is going to say that Jodi won't reveal the actual extent of the physical beatings she suffered at Travis' hands because he's still controlling her from the grave.
All I know is, if Tuesday is another day of nonsense talk by her like it was today, I'm going to be mad at myself for watching the live stream. When it was finished today I cursed myself a little because it seemed like such a waste of my time (even though I'm able to do work while listening to it). But I can't NOT watch it because what if some blockbuster thing finally is revealed? I'd be pissed that I've followed it for this long and then missed when the final smoking guy (pun slightly intended) is put out there.
For Martinez' redirect, I wish he would do the opposite of what they did with the sex tape today. Just isolate her end of the conversation and write the text out there on the overhead screen for everyone to ponder over.
Actually I wish some digital DJ could sample that line she says about her pussy (she sounds so excited when she mentions it) and turn it into one of those dance beat records - like the "Hide Your Wife, Hide Your Kids" song.
- She has bolted-on titties and giant nipples. Blech.
- I don't think Martinez gets to re-cross Jodi.
- No Nancy disGrace here!
- R9 in AZ, it's up to the judge if Martinez would get to redirect.
R7 I watched the streaming yesterday for about an hour and couldn't watch anymore after that. JA is impossible to watch although I did note her memory has improved significantly than when prosecution was questioning her. And her "look at me, I'm a talk show guest" demeanor returned.
I'm betting the jury is feeling a little duped at this point.
- R11, "look at me, I'm a talk show guest" is the perfect description. LOL
- Her lawyer really made a bad call on this. He needs to get her off the stand like yesterday. I bet the jurors can't stand her and must be pissed that they are missing their life to listen to the Kirk Nurmi talk show with Jodi as the perpetual guest.
- The way her lawyer drags out all his sentences is truly sleep inducing.
- Of course he drags out his sentences r14, he's getting paid 200 bucks an hour by the state! And suddenly his letting her talk forever all makes sense..
- OMG did JA just say she thought it would be worse to not send flowers to Travis' grandmother than to send them??? The state can get out the Swiffer and dust of the lethal injection table.
Her final words will be: "hottie-biscotti"
- Is her attorney going to give her a chance to give some story that explains the coded message she tried to deliver while she was in jail? Has he asked that yet? I might have missed it.
Of all the lies she gets to tell for hours on end each day, that's one thing I'd actually be curious to hear her explain away. She's been very good at making stories up (credibility of them be damned!) to address just about everything else fishy about her behavior.
- I had to pause it so I am behind but can't wait to hear the flowers story. Hottie biscotti..tee hee
- I forgot all about that r17. That really needs to be addressed, it's a fucking huge deal! I hope that isn't forgotten and that JM brings it up again in closing arguments. I'm sure they have gone over what her story should be but they probably won't relish bringing it up..oh damn, as I typed this I was missing the deep meaning behind the hottie biscotti..damn, damn, damn! What a fucking loon, how embarrassing saying all this dumb stuff.
- Jesus Christ, hours of verbal valium about gas cans.
Her team is trying to spare her life by exposing her, at length, to the jury.
- If I were on that jury, I'd vote to give her death just for wasting my time.
- She'll be back on trial for murder after all the jurors were forced to blow their brains out after having to listen to her on the stand for 31 days.
- r21 r22 Don't be mean. Jodi gets muddled when you sentence her to death.
- Her "make-under" is so calculated. This peroxided, breast implant whore now wears glasses, dark hair, and no make-up. Her nose makes me sick.
- Have you seen pictures of her vagina? It honestly looks like Dr. Zoidberg from "Futurama." Very creepy. And no, I'm not one of those "ewww-it's-a-vagina-burn-it-burn-it" types. Her genitals look very abnormal and you could drive a MAC truck through her anal cavity.
- I know r24, her nose is gross. Don't forget her teeth also. They are quite snaggly now but in the smiley Travis pictures they don't look like that. Did she have caps on her fangs and has now taken them off? I don't think she was that attractive as a blonde either, I thought maybe she had a decent body but her huge nips showed otherwise.
- I think Jodi has lost a good 20-25 lbs since her blonde days, and it has made her face look like skeletor.
Of course I'm still consumed with this dumb case, but I have extreme Jodi fatigue. Get yourself and your overused genitals off the stand already.
- I'm not 100% supportive of the death penalty but this whore needs to get a lethal injection asap.
- This is fucking ridiculous! Again with the KY? Jesus, he has lost the jury so badly at this point..They must recognize that he is talking a lot and not saying anything and for what reason? I don't get the stalling but he should have driven his point home on closing instead of now because it is going seriously off the rails.
- Hopefully the jury will get back at her with the death penalty. I'm so sick of her I can't even imagine what the jury must feel like. I really, really hope they are intelligent enough to take note of her shitty attitude toward Martinez and the loss of memory vs how she acts now and remembers everything. I love the idea of playing her soundbites as someone mentioned above. She is one of the most loathsome people I have ever seen. I actually feel bad for her family. Nancy Grace mentioned last night that she believes her younger brother is being bullied at school. He has tweeted out poetry on the case. I wonder about the abusive parents story. I read that Jodi was a problem child ( shocker that) her mother is there every day and I think she loves her and has to be hurt by everything.
- Why does Jodi Arias look Japanese when she's part Mexican?
- r30 I haven't read any statements by her mom or dad but her sister seems like a mouthy bitch too. She hates Travis' friends and family and thinks they are horrible people. Apparently one of the TA supporters called her daughter a cunt, which is uncalled for I admit, but jeez, lady..your sister brutally murdered someone and then trashed them as a pedophile, rapist, and woman beater, you have to understand that his family may be mightily pissed.
- Gawd, the careful and ginger way that Nurmi is asking her about the KY is vomit inducing, like she's some delicate flower. Yes, I'm sure she is the one who purchased it so the sex would be less painful but she didn't have to offer up her ass to Travis like it was day old doughnut time at the bakery.
- Travis may have been a bit of a douchebag but he didn't deserve to be slaughtered. Jodi, however, does. She's so annoying and her delicate wallflower voice makes me want to hurt her in a myriad of ways.
- Can anyone link a pic of her nasty genitalia?
- r35 I don't know how to link but know there was some good pics linked on the last thread which is linked at r3, there were a few but I think there is a good one on the last page of the last thread that also included autopsy pics. Maybe someone could link it here? Thank you.
- Here R35 - I think it should be at this link. Can't really check it out as I'm at work.
- Try this, R35
- Someone started a whole thread specifically to discuss her snatch.
- I think she likes these chances like right now when she can demonstrate her fake crying skills.
Not so much for the tears, but because it gives her another chance to put her hands on her face and show everyone her deformed finger.
- Holy crap! 100 total questions already submitted by the jurors.
Looks like we'll get to hear them tomorrow afternoon finally. And no more listening to that murdering robot on the stand.
- Is anyone on this thread a lawyer? What are your thoughts so far. Is Nurmi helping her?
- Also, is Nurmi losing any weight by slowly pacing back and forth behind that podium for hours each day?
- See? My interest is rejuvenated with the 100 juror questions. Good luck with those, Jodi.
Evidently Jodi's family was yukking it up towards the end of today while Travis' sisters were sobbing. What a lovely bunch the Ariases are.
- [quote]Why does Jodi Arias look Japanese when she's part Mexican?
I think that's just her 'cum face,' r31.
She's fucked so much in her life that I think the look has started to stick - like your mama told you would happen if you cross your eyes too much as a kid.
- A five year old could hold my attention better than Jodi at this point. How klassy of her family to be yukking it up.
- Seriously 44? Maybe they want her to get the death penalty like the rest of us.
Did you want to kill Travis " oh no, but I had to shoot, stab him 29 times and slit his throat " I can't remember doing it but I did remember to call him, send text and e mails.
- Horrific autopsy & nasty snatch pics here...
She's a bonafide sociopath/psychopath.
- Thank you r48, that's the one I was thinking of but couldn't remember the site. I'll say it again, love the juxtaposition of Jodi's gaping twat and Travis' gaping throat wound.
- Does she have implants? I always laugh when they call her 'beautiful' and 'stunning.' She has bad teeth. I'm surprised her family hasn't been more upfront with the media. I don't think she was on good terms with them. Come to think of it Travis' family has been out there, but a few of his friends have. Where's Jodi's friends? Probably all dead and buried by her. I still want to know if that bf she said that was obsessed with and killed himself over her, was even a real person, and if he was, did she kill him.
The media really isn't doing its job, or the job they used to do. You'd think they'd want to make it even more sensationalistic.
- I'm surprised Jodi hasn't had labia surgery to trim those beef curtains. Blech.
- Did anyone watch today? Those questions were pretty telling. I had a feeling the jury wasn't buying her story and the questions seem to indicate so.
- I hate to talk about this trial as if it were a Law and Order episode - or more accurately a Law and Order miniseries - but I thought today was amazing. I LOVED that one of the questions was "What is your understanding of the word skank?" and also "Did you ever seek help for your mental condition?"
Jodi also loved today, she thought she was on fucking "Oprah".
- I agree 52. They asked a question that someone on here wondered about" if Travis was a pedo why would you want your children to be around him" paraphrasing.
I loved when she was asked about the Spiderman underwear and the lack of photos. She was embarrassed to take them. Really? But she was okay to take very graphic nude pictures. She had to get in another lie that Travis was friendly with young boy that was into Spiderman. She is disgusting and I say that as a woman that has no appreciation for her or her obvious lies.
- Here is a link to all of the questions and there are more to come.
- r53 Yeah she did. I like that she tried to ask a question back and the judge didn't let her, ha, ha, bitch! On that Jodi is innocent site they had that stalkery letter written to a girl that Travis dated that the people on the site thought was written by the girl's ex bf and not by Jodi based on the words in it being from the book of Mormon. One of the things in the letter was something about renouncing your whoredom and that is something that she mentioned today, at least the word whoredom is. I have never heard that word until now.
I wish they would ask about the coded message..I guess we will see. What a twat again with the Spiderman underwear reference about Travis having a relationship with a kid who loved Spiderman..nice try, asshole, it looked contrived like all her answers.
- [quote]I loved when she was asked about the Spiderman underwear and the lack of photos. She was embarrassed to take them. Really? But she was okay to take very graphic nude pictures. She had to get in another lie that Travis was friendly with young boy that was into Spiderman. She is disgusting and I say that as a woman that has no appreciation for her or her obvious lies.
Yes, R54. And to "memorialize" Travis by wearing the "Travis Alexander's" underwear when she knew she was about to be arrested...wtf?
I was pretty sure that Travis' brother was going to climb over the partition and throttle her when she was saying that Travis was close with a little kid who was into Spiderman.
- R53 I agree, today was amazing. This doesn't appear to be the Casey Anthony jury. The questions are good and now the count is over 157 questions.
- Dr Drew has 2 people in the courtroom that report in every night. They said it was like the jurors are mocking Jodi and are sick of her. I can't wait to see the look on her face when she is convicted " No jury will ever convict me"
- I did laugh out loud when the judge read a couple of the questions. Some of them definitely seemed worded in a way to indicate that the jurors know something is seriously wrong with her.
But the only one I can remember right now that made me laugh hard was the one r53 mentions, "Have you ever sought help for your mental condition?" Ohhh boy, that one is still cracking me up even as I type it.
Early in the day before the jury came in I got a kick out of the lawyers discussing which questions to eliminate. They didn't read the question out loud, but one that was pulled was about how she got the finances to pay for 'a medical procedure.' Of course that's irrelevant, but I asked the same thing on our first thread. It was funny to me that a juror also wondered who paid for her fake fun bags.
Watching that video that Dr. Drew played creeps me out a little - maybe because of what we know happens later in that relationship. But there is something so uncomfortable about how she looks pissed off that he's really good socially and she wants to claim him as her own and wishes everyone else weren't even there.
"...and I'm like looking at her with all the despair I can muster in my retina."
I just let that go. In my experience, the people that work for MLM companies aren't always the sharpest tools in the shed. Just like Jodi who pronounces Greenwich as 'green witch.'
- r60 I know, the video was ominous. "This woman is going to get me killed!" which is what happened, in a manner of speaking. And yeah, he just didn't sound smart, poor thing. Jodi was such a snatch in that vid, just rolling around on his lap and trying to get him to only pay attention to her with a bitchy huffy way about her.
The jury questions were excellent and I think they covered pretty much what I would ask too. I am just sad that she twisted the Spiderman underoo question to get in another jab at him. The finger question was good too. I don't think they believe anything that she says, as evidenced by the "how do you decide when to tell the truth?" question. It's cool AZ does this and you get an insight to what they are thinking. I bet Juan is pretty happy tonight.
- For the most part I agree with you r61 about the questions indicating that the jury seems to not believe what she's saying...and I hope that goes for all of them.
But since they still aren't allowed to discuss the case even amongst themselves (I remember how tough that was to do when I had jury duty), those questions are only reflective of what the individual writing each one is thinking.
It's possible that a few jurors that know she's all bullshit have submitted questions in order to try to trip her up or expose more inconsistencies in her stories. But it's also possible that some of the others buy the crap she is trying to sell them. And I think anyone that believes her probably wouldn't have any questions.
Jodi only needs for one of those jurors to be so bad at reading people or such a bleeding heart that they fall for her act.
- Jesus r62, I hope not. I can't wait to hear the rest.
- I was hoping one of the jurors would submit a question asking her to imitate the hysterical gay man she referenced early in her testimony. You know, given how she thinks we're all animated and stuff.
- I checked out Travis myspace page. He wrote a blog about being abused as a kid and made references to his methed out mother continually beating his back. It's interesting that Jodi stabbed him so many times in the back. Also he wrote in the general info section he wasn't interested in meeting "whores" and that if you had a web cam, you'd better move along. Given this and his religious stuff, it's weird he had those naked photos of her. I wonder if they had an argument, he called her a whore and this set the whole thing off.
- She did try and say something about gay people r64, trying to say she thought they were ok but she wasn't gay (in reference to something about Travis wanting a threesome) I thought it was so calculated. Everything she said today was calculated, like she was covering all the bases. She went through everything so smoothly and sounded so rehearsed and phony.
- R66 I heard that also. It was all very contrived.
I loved when they tripped her up regarding The Book of Mormon. One juror asked her if she read the book that Travis gave her and she said yes and that she would read one chapter a week. A few questions later, another juror asked a very basic question about mormonism and examples of sins other than sex. She couldn't answer for about 30 seconds. She clearly had never really studied what she said she did.
- r67 yes! She knew about whoredom though. She threw that word around like it would make her sound studied in the sexual aspects, but really she just mentioned whoredom a few times.
- r65 I think they had an argument too. I also think he did say something about how a five year old could take better pictures because she brings it up soo much and I know she is a liar but usually liars use one kernel of truth to build a story around. So he maybe called her a whore and a no talent and that set her off? She did fancy herself a great photographer so I could see her getting mad. I also wonder if she really dropped the camera. That seems true too considering the pics snapped from her stepping on it. Oh and the jurors asked why she washed the camera. They seem hip to the fact that she tried to destroy evidence.
- I noticed that she had two alcohol related blackouts when asked if she had any previous issues with her memory. One at 15 and I believe the other one in her very early twenties. She mentioned early in her testimony that she rarely drinks.
I hope the spiderman underwear and the mention of the friendship that Travis had with a little boy is a huge turnoff to the jury. I would love to know what goes on with her once she returns to her cell in the evening. She loves to talk and I would liketo know what she tells her cellmate.
- Wow. JA is sinking at lightning speed today! The jury is definitely on to her. Her "fog" and memory are coming back to bite her in the ass.
- I just turned it on. It does look like Jodi is sporting a cold sore like someone in another thread mentioned. She seems to be tripping up on gun questions. It goes blank after that.
- She just tried to throw an "I think so" at the end of a definitive answer, they asked if Travis was sitting down when she dropped the camera and she was pretty certain he was but then she must have remembered that she didn't remember so she said she thought so. Nice save, Jodi but I bet they noticed it, I did.
- this is just a side bar comment...to call out the gay hottie biscotti newsman in the courtroom.
During this break, when the camera falls on Travis' family, you can see Beth Karas in the back row chatting with a handsome guy. It looks like Miguel Marquez, but they don't show him well enough that I can tell for sure.
- One more thing (for now at least) I noticed the jurors asked her if she got paid for talking to 48 Hours and Inside Edition, of course she said no and probably thought that was the right answer. To me it seemed like the wrong answer. I think the jurors were maybe thinking, "What kind of fucking wacky bitch goes on tv and admits this shit and gives a smarmy statement about how she would never be convicted? She must have done it for money to fund her defense." But she did it for no money so I bet they are wondering why..I am.
- It his Miguel in the courtroom - I didn't know he was covering the trial.
He tweeted about her herpes outbreak on the upper lip too.
- I don't know about Inside Edition, but reputable news shows and print journalists don't pay for interviews.
- She's gonna look just like mama and her twin if she gets older, that's gotta suck.
- It's interesting reading the comments here most of you sound like an angry mob. She killed the guy and is lying about it. Her lawyers are fucking her over, all this time on the stand is just making the jury hate her which is not the point of the justice system. It's not about hating the person enough on the stand or liking the person on the stand, it's about the evidence presented and in this case the evidence is enough. There is no question unless you want to bring in the crazy factor.
This case made me go back and look at Aileen Wurnous. There is video of her the day before she was executed. That woman was not functioning in reality and probably should not have been killed. But in her case she wanted to die and from watching the video it seems the most humane thing to do was release her from life.
The jury giving questions is not a good thing in the justice system a this point in time. Just reading the comments on here should tell you that. Because of the internet and social media everybody thinks they have a right to comment on everything and most people feel they are right. Fine. Not a problem if you are on DL or iVillage or where ever the fuck. But in a trial your mind should be focused on the case and the evidence. Those questions sound to me like some people are wanting to just get a dig in at Jodi and that concerns me. If I ever need the justice system, I don't want people feeling like they are commenting on datalounge by the question they get to imagine asking me. I want them to take my case seriously even if the case itself, to their personal judgement, seems ridiculous.
- What difference does it make if she got paid for her interviews? What relevance does that have to how Travis died and was killed?
What difference does it make how/who paid for her fake boobs?
Sounds like jury has turned into lynch mob. Really really bad. That is not good conduct for a jury no matter the case.
- r79 I guess maybe don't brutally murder someone, lie about it, make up horrific stories about the person you murdered being a pedophile and write code notes trying to ask other people to perjure themselves for you and you should be golden. This is not the average case, she brings out a strong reaction because of her own actions.
- Still not the point 81. I said it's clear she is guilty I don't see any reasonable doubt there. I see her own lawyer creating prejudice for her by leaving her up on that stand. People are hating on her that is not the point of trial. No matter how calm she seems the girl is unhinged. Not fully functioning or rational. Cunning and rational are not the same thing.
In terms of trial this whole thing is fucked up. Asking the jury for their questions seems to create a situation, as far as this case goes, for them to speculate and wonder. Again, not what a jury is supposed to do. Usually the only questions a jury asks is in regard to things they need clarification on that were brought up during trial. Not trying to play gotcha with the defendant.
- How was her counsel selected? Is he keeping her up for so long in order to lay some kind of groundwork for an appeal?
- Consistently on Jane Velez-Mitchell's polls there are about 6% of people who believe or support her.
That just amazes me. But then, OJ got off scot-free so...
People are more gullible than I thought.
- Her lawyer, Nurmi, asked to be let go from the case before the trial started but the judge wouldn't allow it. So I am wondering if he is pissed and fucking this up on purpose.
- The guy representing Jodi is a sex crimes lawyer I linked to his practice. That is probably why he did want the case, it's not his area of expertise.
- I'm afraid to look at the throat pics. How bad is it?
- r87 You can't see his vocal cords like I thought but it's bad.
- So the lawyer was assigned to a case outside his area of expertise? That doesn't sound good.
- Yes. The throat pic is very disturbing........BUT, I looked at it more than once.
- She must feel very stressed if she has the outbreak on her lip.
- The slit throat loos like blood atonement.
- Right now it sure sounds like she still had a 3rd gas can when she filled up in Salt Lake City.
You can see her mind working as she stares at that receipt while they are doing the side bar.
It's nice to finally catch her in a lie - one that she can't back up with any story. Wal-Mart records show that no refunds were made the day she says she bought, and then returned that 3rd can.
- Oh crap! Not back until next Wednesday.
Damn. Just when this shit was starting to get good. She actually seemed rattled for the first time that I can remember through this whole month of listening to her talking.
Now she gets time to work on her story again. It's much better to watch her reaction when she is dealt something unexpected. Maybe Martinez is still saving another surprise for her for next week.
- CNN/HLN milking this case to the death.
- Jodi Arias makes me not hate Casey Anthony so much
- Wow, Martinez definitely has her on the third gas can. He rattled her today.
- Why so much time off? I have a crush on Martinez ) I love aggressive lawyers.
- damn, I missed the gas can thing. I will have to catch the rerun tomorrow. What exactly happened?
- Here you go R99 - for some reason I can't get it to start at the precise moment he goes into it but it starts a few seconds in.
- Wow, I sucked bigtime at that youtube clip....go to 35:55 and it starts there. Sorry!
- And at the 56:00 minute mark is when Nurmi realized the receipts from the Salt Lake City gas station are trouble and calls for a side bar. That's when the camera shows Jodi staring at the receipt on that screen in front of her and you can tell she's working to come up with some explanation.
"19 bucks worth of Twizzlers and Dr. Pepper...would that be a reasonable story to tell??? C'mon brain, THINK!!!"
Hopefully just disproving one of her many lies will convince even the sappiest jurors that might have had some faith in her that Jodi is all evil and lying to their faces without flinching.
- Lol r102..twizzlers and Dr. Pepper. Ok I am going to check out the video, thank you.
- She said she was never in Salt Lake City. She said she bought a gas can at wal-mart, and returned it the same day. She had 2 receipts for gas, one for the car and one for the 2 cans. Turns out Juan got her bank statements from another bank, and she DID buy another 19 dollars of gas,at the same station, same time, which equalled another 5 gal. Wal-Mart has NO record of her returning a gas can on that day. The receipts are from a gas station in SLC. So she did have 3 gas cans.
She says wal-mart must be wrong, because she got a cash refund. (They have the receipt of the purchase).
- Of course, Wal-Mart has it wrong, no chance she is lying..poor girl, always getting a tough break..
- [quote]Nurmi: "Your honor, this guy is fu#@ing up my case, may we approach?"
That's the Top Comment on that r100 YouTube clip. Hilarious!!!
- Her herpes outbreak should clear up by the next day in court.
- That herpes thing had taken on a life of it's own by 4:30 today. I kept thinking of the Family Guy episode where Chris Griffin had a monster zit on his face that talked and told him to do bad things.
It wouldn't surprise me if the recess until Weds. has something to do with the herp, stress, etc. This judge is not taking any chances on her claiming that she was denied proper medical care, it's causing her pain physically and emotionally which could impact her clarity and perhaps bring about a case of "The Fog."
- Jane Valez Mitchell said the jurors were submitting even more questions as this testimony was going on this afternoon. This could be endless. But maybe once he definitely demonstrates that she has been making up stories right there in court (as he started doing at the end of the day), maybe the jurors will just give up on wanting her to waste their time for explaining anything else.
They may not even have to bother having the battered woman specialist testify.
With that testimony about the Mexican restaurante not dealing with her finger she alledged injured on the job, she's risking getting the management in trouble with OSHA. That is, if this hadn't all just happened in her fantasy land.
[quote]All I know is I hurt my hand, the skin folded back, I flipped it over, put pressure on it, went and found a manager, said I needed a Band-aid right away. There were tons of tickets coming through. I had a bazillion margaritas to make. That's all I know.
- I really would love to hear a psych evaluation on this chick. It is rare for women to commit such brutality, I'd like to hear some of the psychological malfunction that gets women to this point. And if a woman is a psychopath what other ways do they express it other than obsessed homicidal maniac? I know there are plenty of functioning males that are psychopaths out in the world running countries and corporations.
- Anyone else think maybe the whole pedo story came from her lawyer who happens to specialize in those type of cases?
I can't answer for Jodi but speaking from personal experience .... I was in an abusive marriage., had a young child, had " everything " it finally got to the point that I had to leave or commit suicide. You are beaten down in ways that you can't believe. I wanted him to die and actually prayed that he would. I finally got the balls to leave because I did not want my daughter to grow up thinking this was the norm. Went from having it all to nothing at all. Never thought of shooting , stabbing or slitting his throat. This is a big problem with her as far as the abuse issue. They had no ties ie marriage, children, money and she lived far enough away to get away if she was abused.She is just a jealous sociopath plain and simple. If you have lived through abuse you see through her lies.
- Women do this shit all the time. Haven't you watched Investigation Discovery?!
- [italic]Consistently on Jane Velez-Mitchell's polls there are about 6% of people who believe or support her.
That just amazes me. But then, OJ got off scot-free so...
People are more gullible than I thought.[/italic]
Honey, Jane's viewers are of course going to believe she's guilty. It's like when Ed Shultz asks a ridiculous question: 'Did George Bush lie about WMDs? Text A for Yes, B for No.' They're preaching to the choir. The only people who watch HLN are pro-prosecution people. These aren't scientific polls. They're a joke. It's like polling DL on whether we're pro-homosexuality.
- YOu are cracking me up r108 "Feed me Seymour!" it is Griffinesque. And r109..three gas can wonder. I will watch some that I missed tomorrow and check back on here, I hope more people post.
- r112 I am so glad you were able to get out of there without anything drastic happening. I thought the same thing as far as it should be fairly easy to leave someone you aren't entangled with or have kids with (same with Oscar Pistorius) so it's interesting to hear from someone who has actually been through it. I can imagine that it irritates an actual victim to hear such blatant lies, I hope if there are any people who have dealt with dv on the jury they are starting to get indignant about this.
- R114 has reading comprehension problems.
The poster was not shocked that so many of JVM's viewers thought she was guilty. He was surprised that so many people believe her ludicrous version of the events.
The poster also never claimed the polls were scientific or even represented HLN viewers.
Please slowly and carefully read posts before replying to them, much less taking the poster to task for opinions never stated.
- R79 brings up some valid points regarding the jury questions. Yes, I love them for dramatic (and comedic) purposes - but the process seems to benefit the prosecution. These questions give us a very clear window into what the jury is thinking. It also seems like a way for the jury to "talk about the case" without actually doing so as they are admonished not to.
It only takes one juror to buy her crap. After yesterday I'm not sure there is one who will.
- Thank you 116
I believe the jury is writing and submitting the questions while she is on the stand. Are they sequestered?
The tape that Dr. drew showed of Jodi andTravis with friends was interesting. You finally get to see what his friends said about her, that she is cold and neve tried to connect with anyone. The couple that released the tape said there were 25 people in the room but she is not interacting with anyone.
- I am so confused now. Why is this whole thing about gas cans so important. This prosecutor is irritating me as much as Jodi. If his is all about showing that her mind lapses are questionable, she could get less that a life sentence. This prosecutor is so horrible. He's wasting time, and he comes across as so amateur.
I was also going to bring up her obvious herpes.
Big question: was the whole gun going missing from her grandparents house, the same type of weapon used to shoot Travis come into evidence? This they prove that Travis didn't own a gun? If they're going to claim that he's a pedophile, this shit should have been brought in, especially the fact that Travis didn't own a firearm.
- r120 The gun that was used on Travis was the same type that was stolen from her grandparent's house, however they never found it. She claims she threw it out in the desert and that it was Travis'. They have no proof Travis had a gun but in Arizona I don't think you need a license to buy one so they are saying he had one his friends didn't know about.
- R120 the gas cans are important because they are key to helping establish pre-meditation. Also, the third gas can, which she claims she purchased and then returned because she didn't need it is also a lie. The math on gas receipts JM reviewed yesterday were damaging and contrary to what she has been saying. Also, Walmart has no record of a gas can return transaction on the date she says it was returned.
- Why can't the gun thing come in if they brought in the claim, with no proof, that Travis was a pedophile?! This judge should be thrown off the bench. Stupid bitch.
- Jodi and her musclebound attorney referred to "The Secret" as a documentary.
- Watch my Super ex Girlfriend, starring Uma Thurman: She is Spot on how I believe Jodi thinks & behaves.
Psycho dumb broad needs Jesus!
- Loved the question YOu followed THE Secret so why did'nt you follow The Book OF Mormon. Her bs excuse on the chastity issue was laughable. She basically said Travis said certain things were okay. She knew better. The jurors are asking her tougher questions than Martinez but she has certainly held back the snarky attitude.
- It took me forever to find the new thread!
I have a stupid question: why did it take so long for people to find Travis' body?
I thought he had roommates and lots of friends?
With that said, Jodi was taking a big chance that someone would be there when she decided to kill him that day.
Only two days of court this week and I fucking bet Jodi will be on the stand for both of them, AGAIN.
- IIRC from the other thread, Travis had told his housemates never to enter his suite and kept it locked. I guess the house was sufficiently large enough that the smell didn't become noticeable for a while.
- I only became aware of this case when it was recently re-profiled on 48 Hours, and I though, in all honesty, that she'd already been convicted. I can't really stand Nancy Grace, so I watched Jane Velez-Mitchell the first day Jodi was on the stand, and even that was a bit much.
Has she been on the stand a month now? It kind of seems like it.
The Voice of the Night
- yes, VOTN, it has been a month and it is really getting grating. Court is off till Wednesday this week and I am sure she will talk form Wed. to Fri.
- Not Friday, r130, which part of the reason she's been on the stand for a month now. I don't know if that is a standard thing with all trials, but this jury always gets a 3 day weekend because they don't have to show up on Fridays.
There have been a few other days scattered when they didn't have to report - like this coming Monday and Tuesday. I think she's been on the stand for 17 days total (someone can correct me if that's wrong) so far which has been stretched out over more than a month.
[quote] I thought he had roommates and lots of friends?
The roommate situation is odd to me too, r127. None of them (I don't even know how many he had at the time of his death) have testified in court.
Jodi obviously cleaned up a lot of the blood - most of that bathroom hallway floor and the carpet at the edge of his bedroom were cleaned as much as she could. She crammed his body back into shower and I'm thinking she must have turned on the shower while his body was folded up on the floor of it because in the police photo you don't see blood on his corpse at all. There is another police pic of the shower after the body was removed and there is just a puddle of dried blood directly under where he was lying. So the worst of the smell would have been concentrated in that bathroom which is down the hall of his bedroom suite, but with only the bedroom door separating that suite from the stairwell and the main part of the house.
Anyway, the point is that by 5 days later when he was finally found, the house did stink. His friends that finally got into the house (Mimi Hall was the one that testified to this) said they smelled the odor as soon as they opened the outside door.
And one of his roommates was home at that time because she testified that they tried knocking and ringing in the bell to get into the house at first, but nobody came to the door. So they called someone to get the security access code for the garage door and got in that way....and found out one of the roommates was home when they got in.
It's all kinds of weird to me that someone could be living in a house with a bloody & rotting corpse (in Phoenix in June where even if the house is well air-conditioned, stuff rots faster than it would in a more temperate climate) and not investigate the smell. The roommates may not have been tight friends of his, so I guess I can understand them not realizing that he hadn't been coming or going for 5 days.
Perhaps whichever of his roommates were home during those days were both deaf and had trouble smelling things.
[quote] With that said, Jodi was taking a big chance that someone would be there when she decided to kill him that day.
About that, I'm fairly certain that Jodi wasn't taking any unnecessary risks when it came to someone else being home. She had been stalking so much previously and showing up unannounced at his house, so I'm sure she had a very good idea of the schedule of the roommates. She could have always backed out too if one of them unexpectedly had been home for some reason. But as cunning as she's demonstrated that she is, I'm sure she knew they'd be alone.
- [R131] It was mentioned somewhere that Travis had three roommates. I don't think Travis was close with his roommates. According to articles and other sites, Travis had roommates to help pay his mortgage.
- r131 r132 I think you are right on the roommate front. It was purely a financial thing and not a friendship thing and yeah, I think they had orders not to go in his room. I bet he was kind of jerky as far as, "It's my house and my rules." type thing and they probably didn't go out of their way to check on him or talk to him. I did live in Phoenix when this happened and we kept our house cold so I could see with him being in the bathroom in a locked room they may have not noticed or maybe just didn't want to have to confront him if he had a smelly room. I did love that when they called the cops they immediately mentioned Jodi. Ha ha, bitch.
- One of his friends said he called and texted Travis and never heard back. This friend said that Travis always responded and kept in touch. This is when they decidedto go to the house and see what was going on. There was a mention in court that Jodi knew one room mates got home at 6:30. I have wondered about the roommates as well. Also the fact they have not testified.
- Could it be that the roommates might give credence to Jodi's story that she was abused?
- r135 I don't know..it is weird that they haven't spoken but I really don't think they were all that tight with Travis. I guess it would be like the equivalent of a boarding house. If one of the boarders was murdered the cops may ask other roomers factual questions about the person's comings and goings but I doubt they would be called in court because it's just a living arrangement and not a friend who knows them type thing.
- The roommates have kind of spoken - they were interviewed by the investigator (Flores) and just seemed like dopey boys who don't even know what day it is half the time. BTW the interviews Flores did with Jodi were epic.
- Jane Velez Mitchell did a story last night about a Travis Alexander arrested for attempted shoplifting and fighting with security at a grocer. It was not this Travis Alexander but theJodi supporters are trying to make it sound like it is. Turns out, Travis had his identity stolen and the thief was the attempted shoplifter. Both the defense and prosecution knew about this and it was not mentioned in court. Her little followers are major assholes.
- Has the cold sore eruption subsided?
- There's a place called heaven and a place called hell/a place called prison and a place called jail/and Jodi's probably on her way to all of them except one.
The Voice of the Night
- I hope so VOTN. I am confused this week, it keeps saying live coverage on HLN and I watched for a minute or so and saw she was wearing something I hadn't seen before but I thought there was no court until Wednesday? If so, her herpetic sore should be gone by then r139.
- Wow! Juan is kicking her ass today!
- She is getting snotty again..I see her herpes sore has diminished somewhat though so that is good.
- It will probably come back after the day she's having 143
This line is questioning seems to have stunned her. She has no time to think up a story and is trying to keep up her story of being in a fog while covering her ass.
- What's been asked that stunned her?
- She seems a little sassy since the break. JM must be heading in a direction where she can't think of lies quick enough.
- She was all over the place. Juan said if she knew Travis' gun was unloaded, what was she going to do? Throw it at him? Haha! She said that maybe the gun was loaded because now she remembers that Travis had loaded it back in December 2007 to fire it somewhere. Then he said the shelves in the closet were on pegs, and had a 40 lb weight limit before they would pop off the pegs and dump all the contents went all over the place. Of course the closet seemed undisturbed when Travis was discovered. Juan said "What did you weigh back then, 135?" Ha! Jodi got a little peeved and said "120".
The good news is, Jodi is DONE. 18 fucking days of this bitch. Over 5500 questions.
He is grilling her on why she grabbed a gun and what she would do with it if there were no bullets. How she actually got the gun down and the weight that the shelves would hold. Basically saying that if she actually stood on a shelf that it would flip from her weight. He called her out all day. He pounded her on The Book Of Mormons and how she lies, drinks caffeine has sex etc.... She said that she read the book but she has tried to blame Travis for letting her have sex etc.... Pretending she had no idea between right and wrong after she read the book. The jury is going at her right now asking about the gun, her memory and how she remembers putting the knife in the dishwasher. Juan pretty much wiped the floor with Jodi today. She was not looking very perky when the judge called a break.
- She just said that she has not had sex with anyone since Travis. Maybe that was because she has been in jail ( and maybe those Enquirer stories of a jail house affair are bs)
- Okay, for those who have been watching up to the minute, what's your take, how will she be found by the jury -- not what you want her to be found, but how a jury will find her. We're talking up 'at this point.' It could change as it continues.
- Based on the questions the jury ask her it looks like they could go for the death penalty. Forgot to mention in another post that Martinez went after her as far as time. Based on the pictures she had 62 seconds to get the weapons ( supposedly since she says she did not bring them) shoot, stab and slit his throat. She failed today. She is not sympathetic at all and shows no remorse. HLN has a new show comingon at 10 tonight discussing the case.
- Don't know that I could pull the death lever on somebody.Even someone as guilty as Jodi.
What where her other alternatives as far as pleading her case? Plead guilty and just say "yeah I brutally murdered that motherfucker?"
- Do they have to go with death penalty if they find her guilty of murder in the first degree?
- I think they can find her guilty of murder in the first degree and not give her the death penalty.
I'm against the death penalty too, R152. "We are going to punish you for killing someone by...killing YOU." Also, it's far more expensive to carry out a death sentence (appeals process, etc) than to sentence someone to life without parole.
There is a case here where a guy murdered his 12 year old stepniece and I'll admit that I might not have a problem with him getting the DP.
- Is there any site out there that tracks the jury's questions to her? I know HuffPo had the first day, but I couldn't find any after that.
The Voice of the Night
- Doesn't the judge have the final say, the jury suggests a penalty?
I'm against the death penalty too, FWIW.
I think we need to overhaul the prison system though, stop making it a country club resort.
- Have they asked questions more than one time? I only remember hearing them asking a couple of questions once.
- [quote]I think we need to overhaul the prison system though, stop making it a country club resort.
You clearly haven't researched the prison industrial complex much.
The Voice of the Night
- I think this forum has the list of questions with the exception of today - I'm sure it will be updated. They asked her over 140 questions, I believe.
- Thanks, R159.
The Voice of the Night
- There is now HLN After Dark with hottie Vinnie Politan and the other handsome black man quacking about Jodi Arias,
What will HLN report on when the trial is over and Jodi is led to the death chamber?
- r149 Well yeah but she says a lot of stuff and I don't believe any of it. I am bummed I missed her today but I know they will replay it on TRU tomorrow. I can't believe I was looking forward to her taking the stand before, now I am glad she's done. I hear the trial is supposed to end by 4/11. I hope so for the jury's sake.
- Could someone explain what the quacking is all about?
- [quote]Jane Velez Mitchell did a story last night about a Travis Alexander arrested for attempted shoplifting and fighting with security at a grocer. It was not this Travis Alexander but theJodi supporters are trying to make it sound like it is. Turns out, Travis had his identity stolen and the thief was the attempted shoplifter. Both the defense and prosecution knew about this and it was not mentioned in court. Her little followers are major assholes.
Nancy Grace talked about this tonight, r138. Of course she's disgusted with the defense trying to introduce this as evidence that Travis has a record (he doesn't since it's been clarified that the arrest wasn't him) and that the arrest and struggle with the security officer indicates he has a history of violent behavior.
Today it was revealed that it was one of Travis' brothers (not the one that is in court every day) that was the guy arrested for the incident but he gave Travis' name to the cops. But that was all clarified with fingerprint analysis long ago and Travis' name was cleared.
Nancy was disgusted because the defense had actually issued a motion to get the information about the shoplifting introduced in the trial - but apparently they got their feelings hurt when they learned the brother Dennis Alexander had since confessed to using his brother's identity.
- R149 We All Know If Jodi Said She Hasn't Slept With Anyone Since Travis, It's The God's Honest Truth LOL, I'll Believe The Enquirer Over Jodi Any Day !!
I saw Nancy Grace talking about this. The 2 sisters and brother are always in court but ( maybe Nancy Grace) mentioned Travis wa estranged from several of them. Maybe this is one of the estranged siblings. I have tried to post a link to what is basically a transcript but it keeps getting rejected.
- r166, it would be helpful if you learned how to format your posts in DL. Try reading the 'Help' section for the basic pointers.
- r165 Oh, sorry, I get it now, lol. It's hard because some people do believe her and you just have to talk to them gently and with patience..
I never said I believed Jodi, I was being sarcastic. She met up with another guy right after killing Travis and he was Mormon and probably put a stop to any actual sex. She was arrested a month later. I do believe the Enquirer story. She will find someone in jail to latch on and use.
- I know r169, I didn't get that you were being sarcastic at first.
- I just turned it to Dr. Drew on HLN and caught the end of one of his crime scene experts saying that the reason Jodi put Travis in the shower is because she got her blood on him and needed to wash it off. Did anyone see or hear this? Was this blood from the cuts on her hand?
- I'd still like to know how a woman of her stature was bodyslammed (so she says) on the the marble bathroom floor and not sustain a concussion or serious injury to her side or back.
- I heard that one of the sidebars today was regarding getting footage (of Travis at the gun range that his friend showed on HLN) submitted by the defense. This is one of the times that I really hate Dr. Drew and Nancy Grace, etc. They are clamoring to have Travis' friends on their show so they can show unseen videos of him and in doing so could jeopardize the case against Jodi. Drew is always so smarmy about how he has "never before seen/heard, chilling video footage" on his show and meanwhile that shit should be left unseen if it fucks with the case.
Also, I try not to hate Nurmi too much because I know he didn't want to take this case and is just doing his job but it does get annoying all the pandering he does to Jodi.
- Oh r163, quacking is from the first thread about this case. It was called something like "What is this Travis Alexander stuff that Nancy Grace and Jane Velez are always quacking about?" I assume the OP was just throwing that out there, not knowing all of us crime junkies would jump on it and take it to 600 posts. Towards the 600th, someone asked if a subscriber could start a new thread and to please include the word "quacking" in it because it made us all laugh about Nancy quaking. Someone was nice enough to start this one and did include quacking. The title of this thread is even funnier because it includes Mormons and outrage.
Thanks. I doubt there is anyone from the Jodi Arias Is Innocent here. It just made me laugh when she said that she has not had sex since Travis.
Last night Nancy Grace and her guest were talking about the herpes breakout JA had last week and although she acts calm it shows that she is stressed. Any possibility she is on something for stress?
- Jodi's female attorney seems like an idiot. She says "um" and "uh" a lot and her hair/glasses combo looks like a disguise that someone would wear on the Geraldo show because they are a suburban hooker. Dr. Drew's dumb court viewer girl was saying last night how the woman inspired her to want to be a defense attorney herself and how she wrote a sycophantic note to her telling her how great she was..please.
- Jesus, some idiotic lady from Texas just called in to HLN and said that she thinks Jodi is guilty BUT it is Travis' fault for manipulating her and she believes that Travis was a pedophile because he only wanted anal sex with her..say what? I really hope no jurors have that same "logic".
- Jodi is guilty, no doubt about that.
But I think Travis played a role , because he used her.
Jodi killed him out of rage from being used like a cheap whore, that she is
- maybe r178 but you can't be used for sex without your consent and showing up. I doubt he strung her along too much since he was planning on taking another girl to Mexico and Jodi knew it. She thought she could change his min d and when she couldn't, she flipped.
I can't believe the shit today. I am with JM all the way. how the fuck could looking at the scene of the crime tell whether it was premeditated and whether you were insane at the time?
- Could the defense not find an actual licensed MD psychiatrist? Psychologists are fine in general but I would want an MD as an expert witness if I were fighting for my life. I wonder if they approached any psychiatrists and they all turned them down.
- r180 I bet it's more likely that real doctors know that it's bullshit to be able to claim the person's mind set from looking at the room and so they had to go with a psychologist.
Remember the old joke "What do you call the person who graduates last in his/her law class" "A lawyer." The equivalent in the health fields is "What do you call the person who graduates last in his/her medical class?" "A psychiatrist."
Ph.D. level psychologists have far more training and experience with diagnostic interviewing, psychometrics, and actual testing than psychiatrists do. In fact, psychiatrists refer patients to psychologists for these functions and to further speculate about etiology.
- Do people actually understand what a psychologist does and the training it entails?
- [quote] Drew is always so smarmy about how he has "never before seen/heard, chilling video footage" on his show and meanwhile that shit should be left unseen if it fucks with the case.
How could what's shown on TV affect the case when the jurors aren't supposed to be watching TV?
- I had a very cool psychiatrist in Phoenix and would always talk about current events with him. It wasn't the Jodi Arias trial but some other case I was asking him about and he said he would never testify in a death penalty case, period. Not for or against the person, he didn't want to be involved in a trial that could result in death. I wonder if that is another reason they had a hard time finding doctors, I guess it is covered in the Hippocratic oath, in a roundabout way.
- [quote]How could what's shown on TV affect the case when the jurors aren't supposed to be watching TV?
Is that a legit question, r184? You are correct that the jurors are not supposed to watch any TV coverage of the case. But the jurors aren't the ones running the trial or presenting anything in court.
The defense team and prosecution can watch TV and even anybody testifying in the case (unless those individuals are specifically instructed by the judge not to) can watch all the coverage of the trial that they want. So the lawyers can see something presented on the news that they decide to pursue and try to add as evidence if they think it will help them.
Side bar: Ted Rowlands is in the audience today sitting right behind the Alexander family. I've had a TV newsman crush on him for years.
- Oh please. They probably don't have a psychiatrist involved because no prescription writing is involved in the trial, and that's all they do.
- [quote]So the lawyers can see something presented on the news that they decide to pursue and try to add as evidence if they think it will help them.
And opposing counsel can object to introduction of the evidence & the judge will be the one to decide whether it comes in under the rules of evidence.
- I have a huge crush on Juan Martinez.
- Here's Juan getting lunch last week and running into a fan. He's such a wee little adorable guy.
- Aww r190, he is such a pocket cutie. I feel bad for him lately, I can hear how hoarse his little voice is getting.
- Who is the poster who keeps insisting JM is doing bad job? He never explains why.
- Great smile. Thanks for the picture r190. Is he single and does he like short women that are nothing like JA )
I like the passion that he goes at Jodi with. You can tell that she frustrates him with her asinine what, I don't know etc.... bs There is absolutely nothing likable about her at all.
- Did anyone find the expert witness compelling? His referenced study had only 50 something people in it which is not that many people. He also used an article from Time magazine.
PTSD could be made to fit The Fog she claims to have but what about all the other things such as premeditation, lies and inconsistencies in her current testimony, etc? Didn't she have time to maybe research some of this once in prison?
"Of 105 young offenders..." What is the age range of "young?" You can bet Juan M. is on it.
- Hey r178 let's not slut shame women who like sex mmmmmmkay? Plenty of sluts on this site with the presenting holes and penises etc. There are no male prudes here so let's let the sisters have their fun too if they are so inclined.
- Nancy Grace just announced( through her producer) that the expert witness got in trouble for bartering services with a dentist. The expert witness testified against the ex wife of the dentist in a child custody case without ever interviewing the ex wife. That may be the reason he left NJ.
They have court tommorow.
Btw 178, Jodi CHOSE to hang around and be used. I'm a woman, I love sex, I have dated my share of jerks and even married one but never killed anyone. Wanted to at times )
- I wish they would get a good Phd psychologist to research her before she dies (cause she will more than likely get death) I have said this before in this thread I really want to know what made this woman so enraged that she had the strength to murder Travis. He was not a small guy and she managed to stab him 29 times and never over powered her. She dragged his dead weight down a hallway and got him into the shower. She was on fire! What got that going? What the fuck happened?
There is no excuse for what she did but something happened to that girl. Something made her snap.
- It shouldn't be too hard to undercut the psychologist's testimony. One of the hallmarks of PTSD is vigilance and hyperarousal which aren't consistent with the fog Jodi claims. Also, people who have PTSD usuall avoid any stimuli that may be associated with the past trauma -- people, places, objects, smells even -- that could trigger an emotional response or a re-living of the trauma. She did quite the opposite, stalking the object that caused her distress. Makes me wonder why they didn't go with a battered woman defense. Oh, yeah. No evidence.
This explains the psychologist. He's a regular expert witness for the defense attorney:
[quote]Samuels is an Arizona-based expert whose website says he specializes in "sexually violent perpetrator evaluations, psychosexual risk assessments, sexual harassment and gender discrimination matters."
- I hear you 196 but there are some women who put all themselves into a relationship like it is going to save their lives. There are also some people who have shakey self identity and they get part of their identity from a person or people that they attach themselves to. I have seen this in a woman I used to know.
Jodi desperately wanted Travis that is evident to me. And she thought that if she did whatever he wanted and made him feel good he would want her. And she probably thought if she was into whatever he was into and supported him he would find her valuable and want to keep her by his side. I've seen women do that too.
I have seen women completely change themselves for a man. So that they could be number one in their lives. So that guy would marry them.
- r197 I also want to know. I do think he did say something about how a child could do __ better than she could because she seemed so hurt and adamant about that part..but what started the fight? The other girl going to Mexico?
- Hmmm.... Wonder if Miss Arias is using The Secret to wish herself out of jail.
- I'm looking at Samuel's website, and aside from the fact that most of his training is over 40 years old, it appears that he isn't a clinical psychologist. His CV lists his Ph.D. in the field of biopsychology -- very, very different from clinical psychology.
He got further clinical training as a post-doc in human sexuality. He doesn't appear to have any training in administering or interpreting psychological tests. I don't know about diagnostic interviewing; I can only assume he has skills if he does it for a living. He has a lot of "training in forensic psychology" listed but they appear to be seminars unrelated to psychological testing and diagnosis. His credentials remind me of Dr. Laura's. She claims to be a psychologist, but her doctorate is in physiology.
If he's taking a more biological approach to PTSD as his testimony suggests (haven't watch just read an account)by suggesting chemical mechanisms that lead to memory loss and fogginess, he's missing the boat.
This trial isn't going to work out well for him, I'm afraid.
- [quote] She was on fire! What got that going? What the fuck happened?
Adrenaline. It would explain her dragging his body.
She was holding a gun on him before she stabbed him, right? She could have gotten "lucky" and first stabbed him at the location of a critical vein, disabling him enough to keep him from defending himself. Or maybe he was one of those guys who'd never hit a woman and realized too late how dire the situation was and by then it was too late.
- r200 I think it was something he said to her. Don't know if it was the thing about a child being better than her, but I think it was something he said and she just went totally white out crazy.
If it had something to do with another woman it seems like she would have done something sooner than she did. Cause she was aware there were other women, and they had a make up break up thing going on.
Maybe whatever he said finally revealed to her how little he thought of her. No regard or respect. Like she was garbage. Cause he did say some fucked up stuff in those tapes and texts.
- There is a ton of evidence that she pre-planned the murder before she even left California. Using gas cans so won't have to stop at gas stations in AZ, turning off cell phone in AZ, lying about getting lost to the guy in Utah, her grandpa's .25 caliber gun being stolen from house she lived in a week earlier, not telling anyone she was going to AZ, renting a white car 90 miles away from home (she declined a red car), taking front car tag off and turning rear tag upside down because AZ has scanners on their red lights, etc.
What set her off was he didn't come visit her before his Cancun trip, he caught her hacking into his Facebook & email and he sent her those texts calling her a sociopath, evil, worst thing to ever happen to him (2 days later the gun is stolen), and she knew he was taking Mimi to Cancun. He had also lost 30-40 pounds in last few months for the Cancun trip. She knew he wanted to marry Mimi, not her. The list goes on...
- Thank you r205, that is exactly what I was wondering. I knew she was pissed about the Cancun thing and I heard about hacking facebook but didn't know it was recent or that he called her a psycho, etc. Someone had linked to the texts but it didn't work for me, is there another link or something? TIA.
- Try this link for texts where Travis calls Jodi evil.
- r207 Thank you! I can't wait to read this stuff..
- Wow, Travis' messages are interesting. He seems like he was hurt by her and he also knew that she was evil and a fucking liar. His blog is interesting too..I am reading his "book". He was a pretty conceited person, what clothing company did he own? I have never heard of it. They were a bit like Dan and Betty Broderick in that they both seemed like jerks that I wouldn't want to know in real life and that they deserved each other but she was much more "off" than him.
- Samuels fined $2500 for 'crossing boundaries' with a client.
- Travis was a typical religious hypocrite. He had all of his friends snowed that he was still a virgin at age 30, while in actuality he was butt fucking Jodi every which way from Sunday. Who, but a Mormon, could come up with the idea that anal sex is less of a sin than good ole penis/ vagina. She was good enough to screw, but not worthy of a Temple marriage.
And no, I'm not saying he deserved to be murdered, but on the other hand he screwed over the wrong narcissistic sociopath.
- I've been diagnosed with PTSD and you do have a foggy mermory about certain things...generally you are so hypervigilant all the time about your surroundings that you miss some things others take for granted as not something forgetful.. For me, all the effort to manage a safe surrounding causes me to not follow a conversation i'm having with someone I feel safe with...so therefore I will not remember conversations I had minutes earlier because I was going through the motion of talking but really focusing on other exterior sounds and sights. I've undergone much therapy over the years learning to place focus and attention appropriately to a conversation at hand.
However, with this said, Jodi did it and I believe is using "fog" as a distortion of her true state of mind at the time. PTSD you wish to avoid any conflict or chaos, not instigate it. You want and seek a totally calm environment. The only thing I can think of that would perhaps lead her to sudden violence is if she had a psychotic break with reality and felt she was going to die, which I've had during PTSD episodes (but never in a million years would harm someone, not in my character) but her thought processes are/were and the act was too logical. She's just too sane and very deliberate.
- He did screw over the wrong person but the way he is being painted is horrible and that will be his legacy, look what someone posted on his blog, that his family reads:
"Guy was a sexual deviant, sick sodomizer pervert faggot. F'ing her in the azzhole and treating her like a whore -- She's sick too but he isn't a saint and his blog sucks cause it's all ripped off from other authors from the Oneness spirituality view point---- not MORMON DRIVEN!"
It's one thing for her to murder him literally but he has nieces and nephews that are going to be hearing about their pedophile murdered uncle which is pretty unfair. Also, he did have a pretty shitty childhood. In his biography he talked about how his mom would beat him and that he would turn his back to her so she would hit his back and hurt him less, seeing how many times he was stabbed in the back it made me sad thinking that his old instinct kicked in and didn't help him.
- This site daily puts up texts, emails, her journals, pics, evidence shown in court. Link is to text calling her a sociopath.
- Thank you r 205. I could notunderstand why she would turn her liscense plate upside down. Thought it would bring more attention, had no idea that the lights had scanners.
What did she do that made him threaten her with telling herparents and friends about all of her lies in April 2008 ?
This was definitely preplanned. Like others I can't figure out how she overpowered him.
- From r159's link:
80) what is your understanding of the word "skank"?
- This trial is just such a fucking farce, it's infuriating. The defense and Jodi know goddamn well that she didn't have fucking PTSD when this shit happened. Listening to this moron expert stumble through these descriptions of what the PTSD sufferer thinks is so annoying and time wasting. Jodi looks completely uninterested and she probably is since it's not her talking anymore. It's a real insult to the juries' intelligence that this guy just gets paid to ramble on about something that we all know is not applicable.
- He's now been exposed for his shady past & if the judge allows Martinez to bring it in, He will be discredited.
- Ever since that Park Dietz fiasco with Andrea Yates where they had to overturn her conviction, I have hated these stupid hired gun expert witnesses. Clearly any expert could go for or against the person depending on who pays them. The whole expert witness thing has been tainted by money now and needs to be revamped.
- [quote] And no, I'm not saying he deserved to be murdered, but on the other hand he screwed over the wrong narcissistic sociopath.
Very true. And when you realize that someone who is obsessed with you is an evil sociopath, it's really not a good idea to send them messages telling them that.
- It is my understanding that all of those on the jury were asked and agreed that they could ask for the death penalty if the evidence warranted it.
Also, if the defense does not prove self-defense, then the judge can't include it in the instructions to the jury as an option.
I think they're going to have to go a lot further to prove self defense.
Not that I am an attorney.
- At least Park Dietz had/has the training and qualifications to perform expert witness duties. Samuels, not so much. Based on his background and what I've read here, he's out of his field of expertise and out of his depth. When I have some time, I'll sit down and a read a transcript of his testimony. I'm trained as a Ph. D. clinical psychologist (which draws me to this thread) so I'm interested in what he's said.
Yeah. The expert witness business is an unethical racket. My training is 20 years old at this point and I haven't kept up with the field (I worked in research in the private sector). I remember how much my training faculty bristled at these folks. Many are "psychologists" with dubious qualifications whose *sole* business was expert witness testimony. Some are true Ph.D. level clinical psychologists who realize how lucrative the business is. Once they set up relationships with attorneys, they are pretty much guaranteed a six figure income for life, IF the testimony conforms with expectations.
States do need to reform this adversarial approach to psychological assessment.
- Oh that's interesting that this is your field r222. I hope you do stick around this thread because I bet people may want to ask you some questions. I didn't catch his whole spiel yesterday but know it somehow involved a Time Magazine article and JM was just dripping with sarcasm when he said that he doesn't take his experts based on them quoting Time articles. So do you think that being able to assess someone's state of mind based on the room is bogus? I know you could probably tell if someone was frantic or OCD maybe, but PTSD or premeditation from the room's disarray, or lack of?
- They believe she first stabbed him through the heart (vena cava; got "lucky") while he was sitting in the shower (his last pic, he is sitting down). Then he came out and stumbled to sink spitting up blood, then she prob started stabbing him in back and back of head, neck. Those back stab wounds are horrible. I can't imagine what he was thinking during that minute she was attacking him...
- What a cunt r224. I don't see how anyone can stab a naked, unarmed man.. in the fucking shower, no less. I am sure he was just instinctually acting (spitting out the blood) and probably no time to think. I hope he had no time to think. He called her a sociopath and evil and whatnot but I doubt he realized how evil she really could be.
- [quote]Nancy Grace just announced( through her producer) that the expert witness got in trouble for bartering services with a dentist.
Don't watch Nancy Grace. She makes a mockery of our legal system.
- Can you give us specific examples of how she has made a mockery of our legal system?
She might be loud, over the top, and not everyone's go to legal correspondent but how has she made a mockery of the legal system?
- I'm starting to think that Jodi may walk.
After hearing an old bag call in to HLN and say she believed Jodi, and that she thinks that Travis was a pedo because he liked to have anal sex, I'm fearful the other old people on the jury will feel the same.
- Check out her Wiki page, R227. When she was a DA, some of her tactics were dubious enough to attract the attention of the Georgia State Bar which reprimanded her.
- I'm not a huge fan of Nancy Grace. Casey Anthony supporters bashed Nancy quite a bit during that time. Nancy did a lot of research on the Casey Anthony case before the trial because of the Florida sunshine laws which regularly released many law enforcement documents. Several people that were interviewed by law enforcement never testified in trial and some of their interviews detailed how fucked up Casey was. In the Casey Anthony case, I understood why she felt Casey was guilty.
Nancy has annoyed me quite a bit during her coverage of this trial. I think Jodi needs to be convicted. Like others have said here Travis wasn't a saint and it annoys me how Nancy Grace and others on CNN and HLN constanly defend him and try to paint him as a saint.
I think there is a small possibility that Jodi could get convicted of lesser charge.
- I was watching an old Dateline this weekend about a young woman who was murdered by a man who she had just met or something, I guess the guy was found guilty but he didn't get a long sentence. After the trial the info got out that he was a convicted rapist and that he probably murdered this girl while trying to rape her. I guess his record wan't allowed in to the trial and the jurors didn't have that when they deliberated. After being told about it by the Dateline people, they were furious. If they had known they would have given him more charges, etc. Why the fuck is that kind of stuff withheld? It is very germane to the case and should be known. Just like this dipshit judge is bending over backwards so as not to offend Jodi or screw up the case, there are some things the jury needs to know. Jodi's stalking is pretty fucking important in this case and establishes premeditation and a history of previous behaviors. I really hope they do make the right decision but if they don't, this kind of stuff will be the reason.
- The history of stalking Travis hasn't been introduced? It could undercut the PTSD defense since people who truly suffer from this would have avoided coming close to situations that are potentially dangerous and a reminder of the earlier trauma..
- As far as I know it hasn't and won't r232. At least the tire slashing and sending emails to his new gf won't be. I think it's ridiculous and should be but this dumb Ito-esque judge won't do it.
- No one deserves to be brutally murdered but Travis was an idiot. He kept calling her back for sex, despite the stalking and tire slashing. If he hadn't kept fucking her and reported her to the police for stalking, he might be alive today.
He probably thought it was cool to have some chick so into him that he called her a stalker to his friends. He was just a typical Arizona douchebag into Ayn Rand.
- Poor Jody. According to the expert witness she had no one to confide in about killing Travis. How about the police? That would be a great start.
- This "expert" witness is a train wreck. I can't believe anyone on the jury would be buying this. Juan Martinez will put this guy to bed.
I'm guessing JM's strategy with the frequent objections during this testimony is not necessarily to have every question squashed but to also plant an idea within the jury that this guy is not credible.
- I wouldn't worry about not being able to introduce the stalking information to the jury. If they can't convict her with what they have then there is a BIG problem. It was a brutal murder. The aftermath is on film. The gas cans. The lies. What more do you need?
- I hope so r237 and I want to believe that but someone said they heard (and I heard a separate one) a woman call in who thinks that Jodi is right and Travis was a gay pedophile, etc.
- The good doc got on the stand way to late, he got sucked into Jodi's lies and she makes him look like a fool as everyone knows she is a sociopath, to bad he couldn't recognize one. He seems to be one of those professional court witnesses, he like Jodi likes the sound of his own voice.
- Hey r224 is there somewhere I can read about what they believed the sequence of events to be? And what about the wounds are horrible I do not want to see the pictures. Is it evident they are deep and gaping or just slits? Are they concentrated in a particular area on the back? What kind of knife are they speculating she used?
Thinking about 29 stab wounds, if you just try to make a stabbing motion that many times in a row somewhat quickly you realize that's a lot of fucking wounds. You also realize that someone has to be in a crazed frenzy to stab someone so many times. Even getting to 10 making that kind of motion you realize, "Okay I've got 19 more to go, that's a lot of stabbing." Then you continue and you understand very clearly there is no one sane that could do that. And I'm just doing it into the air not holding anything. I'd have to get a knife in and out of a body that many times. Utterly insane.
- Wow!! Juan Martinez is on FIRE with this expert witness. Love it. He does not disappoint.
- From the questions the jury is asking I doubt they buy her bs for a minute. Now he is being called out for sending her a book
I think Juan needs a nice Southern girl to help him relax after all the stress of this trial )
- R241 You said it!
- r222 If you are still around does Jodi seems to fit the profile of a sociopath or psychopath? Or is there some other category she fits into. Also any insight into why she would have not acted out this kind of violence in any of her other past relationships with men?
- I doubt there is a singular psychiatric definition that defines JA. She seems like a sociopath but psychopath seems interchangeable as there are similarities. Based on watching her in action during this trial, the terms pathological liar, narcissist, mania also come to mind.
- That fuckbag Drew is going to have "never before seen footage" tomorrow of Travis wearing a dress and wig. No doubt Jodi's dick attorneys will be watching and foaming at the mouth about getting it into evidence that Travis was deviant, etc. Drew is such a piece of shit and is actually annoying me more than Nancy with all his nonsense. I'm sure the drag outfit is from some dumb PPL seminar game or something but it will be taken out of context.
- Antisocial personality disorder maybe?
- Are there any good DETAILED summaries of this case I can send a friend to get her up to speed?
Like a really good timeline or something?
- R246 I agree with you. It was prob from very public skit or event but I think this trial is coming to an end. I could be wrong but I haven't seen anything else indicating more expert testimony after this Dr. Is finished. I doubt there is anything else they would attempt to bring in that wouldn't be DOA with Juan M.
The defense got trampled today and the looks on their faces clearly showed it.
- And is Jose Baez now the defender on the circuit for all guilty bitches? Clearly that twat Casey is about to make some public move since douche Baez has done 4 shows now about her and her case. I am sure he's testing the water for her. He lucked into that case and that verdict so how is he somehow a fucking expert on young bitches who kill people?
- A professional diagnosed Jodi as antisocial, narcissistic, sociopath etc.... Last week on ( I believe ) Nancy Grace.
What type of person could stab someone and slit there throat?
- Wow that's a lot to fit into one little Mexican woman.
- At start of trial, Lisa (his blonde former girlfriend that he dated while still doing Jodi) said on stand that Jodi slashed tires and stalked him. BTW, Lisa was 18 and he was 29 when they started dating.
It was either she or the brunette Mimi that said it in front of jury.
So jury has heard that people thought she was a stalker and slashed tires but don't think JA can go into it because no police report nor absolute evidence it was her.
- R253, WTF? If they didn't have proof she did those things then how the fuck did it get in as evidence?
Ding ding! Appellate issue.
There seems to be an incredible amount of foaming at the mouth rage against this woman. I keep hearing she was this sexual predator but he was also having sex wasn't he. The victim doesn't seem to be the angel his fans are portraying him to be. I am detecting some classic controller and abuser characteristics in this guy. I also don't trust the Mormon clique to be forthcoming in any way that hurts him.
- R222, the defense does not have to prove self defense. Just like they don't have to prove her innocence. They just have to raise it and the defendant's testimony is all they need to raise it before the jury.
Once self defense is raised then the prosecution has the added burden of proof to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was NOT self defense.
The burden never shifts to the defendant but that is a concept that many juries fail to grasp. You really have to drum that into the jury during closing.
All the defendant has to do is to raise one reason to base a doubt on.
Juries in these cases must be what is called "death qualified." Unfortunately death qualified juries are usually very pro prosecution. It's a very difficult jury selection process and any attorneys handling death penalty cases must also be death penalty qualified attorneys - at least in the federal system and where I am they do.
- So you are an attorney r255? Let me ask you this, do you think that Baez is a shitty attorney who lucked into a high profile case and a dumb jury or do you think that he is an arbiter of self-defense murders as he seems to be pimping himself tonight? Does Nurmi strike you as ineffectual and is he hurting JA's case?
- Sorry, R256, II didn't see it.
I don't know that much about Baez. I never thought they had the evidence to convict in the Casey Anthony case so I was pleasantly surprised by that jury. They weren't stupid at all. They were smart enough to see past the emotional pull of the case - both for the child and against the less than sterling mother - and many other factors that could easily have caused a jury to lose focus on the lack of evidence. Plus those awful govt expert witnesses.
The a vitriol of the media and public seems to be repeating itself. That always disturbs me.
Sure Baez lucked into the case. Happens all the time. But it is very difficult to prepare and try these cases. He did one successfully - that's one more than most attorneys.
I just started taking an interest in the Arias case. In just what I have seen so far I can see tons of holes in the govt.'s case and this prosecutor is annoying me and the judge seems to be letting him get away with a number of improper things. Having said that I think there is a lot I haven't seen yet that could change my mind about some things.
- Thank you r257. I thought the judge was letting everyone get away with many things and I assumed it was because it's a death penalty case and as such will have appeals if she is given the death sentence, and that the judge does not want to be the reason for one of the appeals. Does that sound dumb or do people kind of bend over backwards in these cases so that they can't be cited for misconduct on appeal? I can already see her wheels spinning about how she will claim her attorney was crappy and how she had to fire many lawyers and even wanted to represent herself at one point. I obviously think she is guilty and thought Casey was too but I don't think that about everyone (Michael Peterson, oddly enough) I hope you stick around and talk here each day because I know I am biased and do like to hear other takes and I'm sure others do as well.
- [quote]That fuckbag Drew is going to have "never before seen footage" tomorrow of Travis wearing a dress and wig.
Who the fuck is 'Drew'??
I already saw the video months ago, btw.
- I'm totally against the death penalty, but I would find it somewhat amusing if Jodi got it since she thinks she has this whole thing in the bag. I'd still love an IQ test given to her. The woman seems borderline retarded.
- Juan isn't the brightest bulb in the bunch either. It's Arizona. What do you expect?
- [quote]A professional diagnosed Jodi as antisocial, narcissistic, sociopath etc.... Last week on ( I believe ) Nancy Grace.
A professional doesn't diagnose someone they've never treated on television, and furthermore, no one who has any real credentials goes on a shit show like "Nancy Grace."
- Sorry r259 Drew is Dr. Drew Pinsky or the Kevorkian of the rehab scene as I am sure he is known now.
- What do you mean r262? Hell HlN has THE impressive Dr. Drew so I think they know their medical shit.
- [quote]I don't know that much about Baez. I never thought they had the evidence to convict in the Casey Anthony case so I was pleasantly surprised by that jury. They weren't stupid at all. They were smart enough to see past the emotional pull of the case - both for the child and against the less than sterling mother - and many other factors that could easily have caused a jury to lose focus on the lack of evidence. Plus those awful govt expert witnesses.
Agreed. The prosecution had practically nothing during the Casey Anthony trial. They had an internet search, couldn't prove that there was a body in the car, and a stupid tattoo, with a mother who was a liar, and went out partying while her daughter was missing. People were wondering if she had someone kill the kid for her. It was too difficult to convict when you have nothing, not even good circumstantial evidence.
She looked up how to make chloroform. That doesn't mean she looked it up to make it and kill her daughter with it. She also looked up neck-breaking. This isn't evidence. It's stuff you throw on top of your real evidence at the end. The bitch talked about putting chloroform in alcoholic beverages which she would have when she was out with friends at clubs. Neck-breaking -- yeah, and? I've looked up injuries I might have as well.
Nancy Grace made a mockery out of the legal system. She was behind the entire Casey Anthony debacle. She's an ignorant bully, who should have been disbarred decades ago. She's been reprimanded up the wazoo for unlawful practices. She's an idiot, and so are her viewers. She turned the country into a lynch mob. 'Who needs a trial? Just kill em!' Her BFF is Glenn Beck. I'll never forget gems like, 'I say they're identical twins, but people tell me that my son and daughter aren't.'
The person who started the whole Jodi Arias coverage was/is Jane Velez-Mitchell. Nancy is pissed as hell over that one.
- I hate Nance too r265 and can't even stomach listening to her for an hour a week on her Arias show but I really am hating Dr. Drew more on this one. He's a misogynist asshole who could really screw things up with his stupid "explosive" new blah, blah from Travis' friends every night. Oh and Travis' "friends" are dummies too who need to stop going on every stupid HLN show.
- They showed clips of Jodi's house where she lived with grandparents, and it was a total SHITHOLE.
I think she thought he was her ticket out.
- God the HLN coverage is really obnoxious lately. I actually turned it off today because I couldn't take it anymore. Every time they came back from commercial they would have a picture of Jodi with tinkley serious piano music and then a fucking foghorn sound effect with the words "memory fog" or something across her picture..it was like a cheesy morning drive-time radio show by Boomer and the Nudge. Oh and Ryan Smith said that Lifetime is already in the works to make a movie. Already? Hell, they are late by their normal standards. They had that hilariously bad Drew Peterson movie on a year before he even went to trial which pissed off the courts in Illinois because they didn't want it to taint the jury. Jane really had been following this case for years and I have been following her coverage because I lived in Phoenix when it happened. Nancy is just jumping Jane's train on this.
Can you give us specific examples of how she has made a mockery of our legal system?
Grace is the type of prosecutor who should have been disbarred but is protected by the system because she's the government.
There is a wealth of material on her unethical and even illegal pattern of conduct while she was a prosecutor in Georgia. In fact that's when I first saw her. She was trying a case of arson wherein the defendant's wife died in a house fire but he was able to escape. She charged the elderly husband with murder claiming he started it and intentionally killed his wife. All the details escape me know but the couple were awakened in the middle of the night by e fire and in the confusion he thought his wife had made it out.
As usual in arson cases the so called experts were wrong and an ordinary substance had been declared an accelerant. The conviction was overturned and, as in numerous other cases, Grace was called out by the Georgia Supreme Court for her unethical conduct in the case.
Look up Bell v. State of Georgia, Carr v. State of Georgia, Stephens v. Hall.
Grace was an abusive, unethical prosecutor and she is the same today as a demagogue playing to the mob to further her own career.
I found a bit on her at the link that may give you a taste of her.
- [quote] At least Park Dietz had/has the training and qualifications to perform expert witness duties
Park Dietz is one of the biggest expert whores in the country. He was the genius that testified that Hinkley wasn't crazy.
In the real world it is almost alway the government who has the resources and money to hire the most expensive experts - the ones who superficially seem the best. That doesn't always mean you are getting the best and most appropriate diagnosis.
I always get troubled when, after trial, jurors have discussed experts by how smooth they looked or their clothes or other stupid factors. I have often left wanting to pull out my hair. It is amazing how revealing these post-trial conversations are. The jury is often eager to talk and gets very informal.
I had a trial where we, the defense, had a brilliant expert on short fall injuries - in fact the nation's foremost expert at the time - and the government had a charlatan who was as smooth and slick as they come. From the moment he opened his mouth I just knew he was a con man. After we lost during discussion with the jury they made fun of our midWestern expert's plaid sports jacket in contrast to the nice dark suit this city jury expected to see on a professional. I had warned my co-counsel about his attire but I was pooh poohed. Despite our efforts to introduce evidence and a witness to show that the govt's expert had perjured himself by inflating his credentials and even lying about it, the judge shot us down. This govt expert was later thrown out of another murder case in another state when that judge was shown the same evidence as we had - that judge publicly and on the record called him a perjurer. As a result of this info we and the other state's defense atty developed, a number of other convictions around the country where had had been an expert witness were called into question.
Sorry I got carried away. This Arias case is troubling me. I'm concerned there's too much mob mentality and to much blind faith in the government. Eg, the closet shelves.
I respect your expertise but I don't understand why you see this trial as a mob mentality. I agreed with the Casey Anthony jury because they really did not have enough proof. This case is different. JA has lied about everything, she stalked and brutally killed this man. There is not one redeeming feature about Jodi. She lived a thousand miles away, was not married to him and was not financially tied to TA. He used her but she let him. Most of us have had a shit relationship or two but you walk away, you don't brutally kill someone.
- Lord, the anti-Nancy Grace troll is off her meds again. You realize she's one of the most respected women in the country.
As for Park Dietz, his credentials speak for themselves. When you've helped develop diagnostic criteria for the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, please get back to us.
Now, back to the topic of the thread....
- R272 Thank you!
This this thread is about quacking and related matters. Quacking is what brought us here and this thread has managed to remain civil.
- I am hearing that this doctor has just destroyed his reputation by being involved. I kind of feel bad for him but what did he think would happen? He's saying some ridiculous things.
- I'm with you guys on Nancy Grace, but I love her on this case. Only because everytime someone comes on and sort of roots for the defense, she comes undone. I cannot stand this Arias chick. She really does think she is the smartest in the room. She wanted to defend herself. I would've paid money to see that.
As far as this "expert" is concerned, he seems really unprepared for this. He is so clueless. This is a major trial, how do you go up there knowing you don't know what you're talking about? How did the defense allow this?
- I can't even really listen to this guy because he seems idiotic and because if he is not "in on it" as it were, then he has been fleeced by JA and everything he testifies to is based on her lying to and manipulating him. The fact that she is such a liar is my problem with this whole case, I can't take anything this bitch says seriously and anyone who testifies based on things she told them is also suspect. The video of her at the police station trying to appear carefree and saying shit like, "oh my goodness me.." when we all know how she really talks (like her don't fuck me on this note to someone who she wanted to lie for her) she's just so insincere and will have herself to blame for what comes down here. She's methodical and calculating.
- [quote]. Nancy Grace . . .You realize she's one of the most respected women in the country.
Good lord. You are insane. She's a joke in the legal community. She was a despicable prosecutor and it's no wonder she transmuted so seamlessly into a despicable demagogue with no sense of fairness.
As for Park Dietz, his credentials speak for themselves. When you've helped develop diagnostic criteria for the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, please get back to us.
I've done my share in my profession over the past decades to develop criteria and rules for the admission of evidence, case law, rules of criminal procedure and professional standards. Don't be unduly impressed by those who volunteer to serve on committees in their profession. It really doesn't tell you all that much about the person but it does help his CV look more impressive. It is easy to fool laypersons.
Park Dietz has a lot to answer for as an expert considering his outrageous lies in the Andrea Yates case - probably the main cause for reversing her conviction. I still chuckle at his arrogantly wrong testimony in the John Hinkley trial. Brag about Dietz somewhere else. Dietz has always been just as much a paid whore as the rest - he just gets paid better cause he is usually a prosecution whore.
- R271, I'm not judging the merits of the case. I' m concerned more with things I have noticed that speak of a bias against the defendant for reasons unrelated to the evidence. I'm also troubled by the tactics of the prosecutor and the judge's willingness to allow things - that may however be the fault of the defense team.
Maybe when I have more time I'll collect my thoughts and go into it more. I am also troubled by the acceptance of things that don't seem to have been proven. I still don't see how she was considered a stalker when he continued a relationship with her and he encouraged her. That is not a stalker. Anyway this is a death penalty case and as such there's no room for sloppiness or improper inferences.
- That's what I thought r278 as far as the judge making so many concessions (I think) for Jodi and co. because otherwise on appeal it could be said that there was judicial misconduct or whatever. Anyhow, I posted to you earlier and I do think she is flamingly guilty but like to read what other's say and am glad that this thread is civil.
- This dumb video that Drew is showing is just what I thought it would be. Some fucking dumb, not funny, work thing where he is dressed in drag? I just thought it was some weird outfit but he is making lame jokes and Drew is having some key points like "beat a woman", "tall women", "rhymes with candy" and "chlamydia" flashed across the screen..Wtf? Why? What is he trying to say? I hate Drew so much, much more than Nancy. I thought he didn't buy Jodi's story so why is he showing this innocuous shit that could be construed as inflammatory with his editorializing and pulling out words. It's not troubling, Drew, it's fucking stupid shit that the PPL people laugh at and consider risque. Oh and Nance has only killed one person, what is Drew up to, 5 now?
- R254 et al ad nauseam
You don't care for Nancy Grace. We get it.
But your constant repetition of your intense hatred is making you sound as unhinged as Arias.
Just change the goddamn channel when she comes on and stop boring us with all these anti-NG asides.
- R254 is some mole from the "JA is innocent project" at another site. Trash.
Pre-meditation, jealousy, stabbing 28x, shooting, lying: Proven
Creative, consensual sex: Proven
TA a pedo, TA a gun owner, JA victim of violence and abuse at the hands of TA: Not Proven
Appearance of herpes on lower lip under stress as shown in time lapsed photos spanning course of one day: Priceless
- Lol at r282. Yes. her herpetic stress is evident.
- What are you quacking about, R281? I mention Grace in 2 posts and they were in response to others mostly providing info requested about her unethical past.
Why would you give a fuck about that? Don't like it then don't read it but don't distort what I'm posting like some drama queen defending her idol. There's enough distortion going on in this thread.
- [quote]Lord, the anti-Nancy Grace troll is off her meds again. You realize she's one of the most respected women in the country.
Who respects her? I must have missed this. If you don't believe R254's contentions about her unethical prosecutorial misconduct, check out her Wiki page as I suggested R229
[quote]But your constant repetition of your intense hatred is making you sound as unhinged as Arias.
I don't see this "intense hatred" you accuse R254 et al. R254's discussion about the judge, rules of evidence, and the way that juries allow emotionalism to affect their judgments is relevant to this case (and numerous others) that arouse passion.
R281 - the mere suggestion that R254 is as "unhinged" as Arias says a great deal more about you.
And judging from your post at R282 you really haven't been reading R254's posts.
- R222 here. I'm the clinical psychologist by training and someone upthread asked if I think she's a sociopath or a psychopath.
Right now only ASPD is recognized by the DSM and there's debate as to whether they're much different at its core from "psychopathy". ASPD is more commonly diagnosed because there are behavioral criteria such as contact with the legal system and possible conduct disorder as an adolescent/teen. Psychopathy is assumed to have underlying temperamental/biological attenuation of affective responses. They do not "feel" like normal people and do not experience fear or empathy and thus take greater risks and don't mind hurting others. However, many with ASPD also have the same emotional reactions (or lack of them) as "psychopaths." The diagnosis of the latter may be dependent on the scales or measures chosen. The DSM attempts to capture this aspect with the criterion "shows lack of remorse for actions".
As far as Jodi Arias' diagnosis? I wouldn't even attempt it without extensive diagnostic interviewing to see if her behavioral patterns were consistent across settings and interactions with people over time. I'd also want to interview family and others who might provide relevant info. Diagnosis isn't a neat categorical thing that allows us to qualify behavior and people into neat packages. I'm sure she demonstrates behavior and characteristics that fit into other personality disorders, as well. That's the "mixed PD" diagnosis. All sorts of maladjusted stuff.
- They have a lady from The Secret "documentary" giving her expert opinion on the highly scientific rules of attraction to Mike Galanos..Jesus.
- And they need to stop trying to make the Jodi/Casey thing happen. The only similarity between those two is that they were females accused and they are liars. That's it. There is nothing to be "learned" about Jodi from watching Casey's interrogation or vice versa. HLN is really sucking.
- R 222
I have a question ( knowing you have not interviewed JA ) What kind of person could stab someone 29 times and slit there throat. Do you think it waS anger over being used? It is hard to imagine anyone doing something like this! Shooting someone one is a stretch but using a knife seems far more personal ( for lack of a better word ) Like a hate crime.
- Someone vomited, and they cancelled court for the day?
- [quote]But your constant repetition of your intense hatred is making you sound as unhinged as Arias.
Go die in a grease fire, you unhinged loon!
- For real r290?
I wondered why there was the sudden 1-hour recess, and then they never ended up coming back from it.
- I was going to look that up but figured someone here would mention it if it were true. I saw part of JVM and thought I heard her say "blah, blah puked, blah, blah" but was too bored to rewind and didn't think it was that important. I figured it was probably just something they ate since I heard no Nancy screaming about how sickening the pictures were. I hope they are back tomorrow but I bet that person will be out for the day.
- [quote]I have a question ( knowing you have not interviewed JA ) What kind of person could stab someone 29 times and slit there throat. Do you think it waS anger over being used? It is hard to imagine anyone doing something like this! Shooting someone one is a stretch but using a knife seems far more personal ( for lack of a better word ) Like a hate crime.
Just let your mind wander a la Criminal Minds. I think that's where you'd like us to go for pat answers. Sorry, I'm not a TV character or sage.
You seem to want pat answers, but I can't provide them. How could I possibly know without having any glimpse into her life, her background, or any of her social history? And even then...
Sorry, DL doesn't provide better alternatives to Dr. Drew or Dr. Samuel.
- The Defense is supposedly going to have another expert witness on the stand who's in the field of Battered Woman Syndrome. If they wanted, could they choose to not to put them on the stand?
Based on the questions from the jury to Dr. S., this isn't going well for Jodi. They know she's a liar. Any other type of "expert" on the stand could be even more detrimental to her case.
- I know r295. I just caught that question about if a "bad haircut" could trigger the same amnesia or whatever he was claiming she had. That was funny. These jurors are reverting to sarcasm and snark, they must really be over this bullshit.
- [quote]The Defense is supposedly going to have another expert witness on the stand who's in the field of Battered Woman Syndrome. If they wanted, could they choose to not to put them on the stand?
Yes r295, they can elect not to call someone on their previously announced witness list to the stand. When that happens though, it triggers the opposing attorney to wonder why you decided that the testimony of that witness would no longer help your case. So in return they might call your witness to see if they can break something out of them on the stand.
- Thanks R297. Good info and sounds like we'll get to here from another witness.
R296, the tone of the questions do seem to be an indicator of where the jury may be in this process. The best question so far was:
"If Jodi's hands were shaking/trembling when you were interviewing her, how do you know if it was PTSD or if she was scared for her future and life if being found guilty in court?"
- Also r295 & r298, they still need that Battered Woman Specialist to talk because the dude that's been on the stand this week hasn't really presented anything to explain why she would kill him in the way that she did.
The main thrust of this dude's spiel seems to have been more about making her bullshit about blacking out and not remembering anything seem just the slightest bit less ridiculous.
I imagine the next "expert" will testify as to how Jodi's lifetime of 'abuse' could explain the way she suddenly reacted and unconsciously lashed out at Travis in such a vicious and brutal manner.
- I am glad that they are now addressing on HLN that the whole basis of Samuel's eval of Jodi is pretty much based on lies. If that's the case than that would be the case for anyone who has examined her. I said that earlier since everything she says is basically untrue, anyone who is testifying based on what she has said is misinformed and so can't make a rational conclusion on what she is suffering from. It seems the jury knows this too so maybe they should cancel the other expert witness.
- HLN played a tape earlier today of JA's interrorgation. She is something else. The police told her about the pictures found at the crime scene. She still lied and asked if he was certain it was her, that she was nowhere near Mesa. She did not crack or act shaky. She was not afraid at the interrogation and stands up to Martinez without a problem . I just don't see her backing down from Travis.
The juror question about the haircut was pretty funny.
- Apparently Jodi got busted for having that slutty lady that sits behind her (the 'Mitigation Specialist') pass secret notes/papers to Jodi's mom after court 2 days ago. I personally saw it on video when the camera popped back on at end of day & showed Jodi smiling & joking to her lawyers as she stood at the door. Not sure if she got any punishment.
Also, today the Defense asked that Travis' family and supporters stop wearing the dark blue ribbons that Travis' sisters give out and wear each day at court. The family refused to remove them. All this per those in courtroom on websleuths.com.
- Are you serious r302? Is that chick banned from court now? She should be. I knew that Jodi was trying to make this shit drag on and on just so she could have her Jodi show in court everyday. Never again will people be so interested in facts from her stupid life and if she is in court she can pass shit more easily than when in jail and she had to use her codes. What a bitch. I would be beyond livid if I were a juror.
- Dear Webbie,
I travel all over Europe and have access to literally hundreds of IP addresses.
Trying to ban or block me will only make it worse.
I am harmless.
Get over yourself.
- This was just about the most boring day of the trial so far.....and then Mr. Martinez got a chance again and livened things up.
- Well Jodi's attorney is a total idiot and her fat one seems to be expanding by the day. Clearly the jury thinks that this guy is an idiot and don't believe anything he says so why does she think that letting him prattle on even more is going to convince them otherwise? All it does it make him look more deluded and stupid. She should have let him get the hell off the stand and hope that the jury forgot it and she could maybe have then questioned another expert about how sometimes these symptoms can be misconstrued or faked or wherever the fuck she wants to go with it. To continue to extrapolate wrong information from an idiot is a bad strategy.
- I guess this is so aggravating to me because I deal with something similar with my crazy mom. She drinks too much and does odd things and I think she may be bi-polar or something, my sister and I have been on her about this for years. To prove that she is fine she found a psychiatrist who is a quack to begin with but she also doesn't tell her shrink the truth about herself (like how much she drinks, what other meds she takes, etc) so the shrink thinks she is fine which my mom always tells my sis and I when we get on her about things. But since her doctor only gets half truths from her any diagnosis she makes is worthless and not to be taken seriously. Her doctor could send me a fucking notarized letter signed by the president or whoever stating that she is fine but since she bases this on shitty information, I will never believe it. That's how this feels, it's fucking pointless and futile because it's not based on facts.
- Exactly R306
I can't wait for Juan Martinez to have another go at Dr. Deluded.
- Cut the nonsense- Casey Anthony was guilty and that jury was dumber than a bag of hammers. Jodi Arias is guilty by her own admission and the Evidence
shows it was premeditated. Travis was a creep but nobody deserves to be gutted like a trout. Jodi is going to be in prison for life. Or she could get death. And it is based on evidence. Not opinion.
- What exactly do you mean about cutting the nonsense? Cash Antony was obviously guilty but there was not enough real evidence to convict her. This case istotally different. A ton of evidence and she confessed. It is going to come down to death or life in prison
- I agree that this and Casey have absolutely nothing in common except for the (questionably) pretty girl and the lying and the guilt (IMO). I don't know why HLN is trying to draw parallels, it's not happening.
- Vodka+ IPad= Cash vs Casey
- I love you Miss Susanne.
- God, that HLN After Dark show fucking sucks! Whoever did the greenlight should be fired.
I'm kinda getting bored with the whole trial and it looks like the jury won't get the case for another month.
Jodi is such a class act flipping the bird to the silly shrink.
- Yes r314, that show is the worst, Jerry, the worst. I didn't see her flipping off the shrink, damn, I miss everything. I also agree that the trial is getting boring. If she hadn't blathered on for a month it wouldn't be so bad right now. I heard they expect it to end on 4/11. I guess we'll see.
- [quote] She did not crack or act shaky. She was not afraid at the interrogation and stands up to Martinez without a problem . I just don't see her backing down from Travis.
Completely inappropriate comparison.
[quote] Also, today the Defense asked that Travis' family and supporters stop wearing the dark blue ribbons that Travis' sisters give out and wear each day at court. The family refused to remove them.
This is also completely inappropriate. Judges in my jurisdiction would have stopped that before any jury entered the courtroom. No signs of support for either side, no eye rolling, etc. - this is not a fucking football game. This is a death penalty case and this is the kind of needless bullshit that can get any conviction reversed. There is not one justification in the world for allowing such partisan conduct in the courtroom by attendees. This judge is a slacker.
Jodi Arias is guilty by her own admission and the Evidence shows it was premeditated. Travis was a creep but nobody deserves to be gutted like a trout. Jodi is going to be in prison for life. Or she could get death. And it is based on evidence. Not opinion.
She has admitted to killing him. She has not admitted to murdering him. There is a difference. She claims it was self defense. Whether or not she is guilty of anything or, if she is, what exactly she is guilty of is a question. It is your opinion that it was premeditated. I see reasons being proffered why it may not have been premeditated. That's for the jury to decide.
It is near impossible to know what a jury is thinking. Even after knowing their jury questions and seeing their "body language." Juries are odd entities and will constantly surprise you. They are highly unpredictable despite what jury consultants will tell you.
- [quote] . I just caught that question about if a "bad haircut" could trigger the same amnesia or whatever he was claiming she had. That was funny. These jurors are reverting to sarcasm and snark, they must really be over this bullshit.
This is just more bullshit and inappropriate conduct allowed by this judge. The judge is supposed to be vetting jury questions. The jury isn't allowed to ask anything that comes into their heads. It.s not supposed to be a joke. The questions have to be relevant, material, etc. All of this can add up to strong grounds for appeal in the event of a guilty verdict.
And while it is the defense attorneys' job to raise objections, in criminal trials the judge has an added duty to ensure a fair and impartial trial even if the defense attorney drops the ball - especially when the defense attorney drops the ball and especially in a death penalty case.
- Aww r317 I knew you were going to say something about my bad haircut comment and I guess the jurors shouldn't be getting sarcastic but they're only human too. I still think the judge seems to do a lot for Jodi and it seems her attorneys do too. They wanted a mistrial called early on but haven't mentioned it lately.
- [quote] they can elect not to call someone on their previously announced witness list to the stand. When that happens though, it triggers the opposing attorney to wonder why you decided that the testimony of that witness would no longer help your case. So in return they might call your witness to see if they can break something out of them on the stand.
That can be a very risky proposition to call an opposing party's expert witness. The government would be limited to direct examination and possibly re-direct. Further, though I imagine Arizona requires notice of what experts will testify to and what materials the expert has relied upon, there can be things they are not privy to that could hurt them and help the opposing side.
- [quote] Aww [R317] I. . . the judge seems to do a lot for Jodi and it seems her attorneys do too. They wanted a mistrial called early on but haven't mentioned it lately.
That could hurt the defense. Even if you make your objection Courts of Appeals often want to hear you continue to object to the same damn thing. You shouldn't have to once you've made your record of the objection but I've too often seen Courts talk about not making enough of a fuss or acting like you've acquiesced when you think you've made an adequate record. So unless the judge orders you not to raise the objection again it is wise to renew objections and even renew motions for a mistrial. Sometimes the nature of the jury questions can give you grounds to renew an earlier objection or motion - the question may show the jury did not understand or obey a court's ruling on an objection, jury instruction or stricken testimony, etc.
- Thanks for the explanation r317, 320. Can I suggest that you make up a handle for this thread? You could call yourself "Lawex" or something and then not have to always write your numbers. Or not, it's up to you.
- Just watching Nancy Grace Mysteries, and she said, "You know I really thought I had seen and heard it all... After trying well over 100 felony cases, talking pleas on over 10,000 felony cases, and giving birth to twins. But now, it's all been topped with transient global amnesia."
She always gets the twins in.
- What r322! Did she really say that? Wow, the non sequitur queen strikes again. What the hell do the twins have to do with anything, ever?
- Yes, she has to mention the twins and the fact that she was a victim of crime. Her fiancé wad killed, she was not the actual victim.
- As a recovering addict (please check out my book on the topic), I have to say that it can be very annoying when Nancy Grace keeps bringing up the same aspect of her personal life over and over.
- I also heard that she did some rewriting of history with reference to his death. Like that the guy wasn't really already a known criminal and was tried and convicted for it as opposed to her saying that he had been set loose to kill again or something like that.
- Back to this thread's topic -
a funny but true take on Grace by The Newsroom.
- I've been watching the trial on the CNN live stream as its commentator-free, commercial-free and uncensored. I'll watch a few minutes of Nancy G. on days I miss as she will be all over the slightest twitch of anyone in camera range. I saw a blurb the other night that Jodi may have been giving Dr. Sam the finger while her head was propped up with her left hand. Did anyone see it happen? Or did it happen?
I love watching Jodi try to take copious notes using one those tiny, state issued pencils that are as long as an index finger. I'd bet she's making notes on what to include in her appeal.
- I didn't see it r328, but I heard about it. I can't watch the misinformed doctor testify so I guess I don't pay much attention. Jodi is lucky she CAN take notes, what with all her finger trauma and all..
- Keeping this doctor on the witness stand for days by the defense is undermining their own case.
ENOUGH!! If I were a juror, I would have gone crazy by now.
One juror wrote a question that simply said, "stop".
- Why are they dragging this out? Do they think someone on the jury will die and they will get a mistrial?
- R331 the Defense won't get that lucky. I think there are five alternate jurors that are sitting in through all of this in the event something did happen to one of the 12 designated ones.
- Juan accused Dr.Samuels of having "feelings for the defendant". Samuels exploded "I BEG YOUR PARDON??"
- It was funny the way he said that, r333. I chuckled.
Gawd I'm glad he's finally off the stand.
But why do they need the jury to leave while the next witness takes the stand? Is this someone else wearing shackles on their feet?
- The only explanation for how the defense is going at this is that the lawyer feels out of his depth in this case (he asked to be dismissed but was denied) and either is trying to tank the case so she can get an appeal on his incompetence or just leaving no stone unturned and beating those stones into pulp hoping that something will work on her behalf.
- This lesbo on the stand is boring already.
- Anytime the Defense has the floor it's pretty boring. They simply are not able to provide anything compelling whether it has been questioning JA, expert witnesses, etc. From a defense standpoint, it looks like a dog of a case for arguing self-defense.
Given that JA went through several attorneys and even wanted to defend herself, I think they are doing the best they can with what they've been given.
- That last 'expert' dude says he gets $250/hour for his work on the case.
This lady just testified that she gets $250/hour for research, but $300/hour for court appearances.
- The camera is frequently panning over to Juan Martinez today. His facial expressions while listening to this domestic violence expert show he is not impressed. She's toast when it gets to re-direct.
- This Flowbee haircut woman's voice is putting me to sleep.
It was funny when she asked the judge if it was OK to swear in court and then only used the words 'bitch' and 'bastard.'
- A big part of this woman's credentials are her works with Brenda Klubine but I read a lot about that case when she was released and she apparently robbed her husband when she killed him and people think that was the motive so I don't know how much that should be mentioned in her expert credentials.
- r337 I did not know she went through many attorneys. I wonder if they wanted her to plead no contest or something and she wanted to go with this idiotic guilty but self defense bullshit.
- Once she settled on her defense lawyers, they supposedly approached the Prosecutor at the last minute with some sort of plea deal but he apparently said no way. Not sure of the details but it sounded like Jodi was a pain in the ass from day one.
- Nurmi stomping his feet about prosecutorial misconduct this morning is yet another one of his desperation moves.
Could he also be slightly jealous that nobody lines up to take pictures with him outside the courthouse?
- Nurmi should stomp his feet for an hour everyday, he seems to be getting fatter by the second.
- Flowbee Lady is wearing a jacket with Chinese characters all over it today. Seems like that shouldn't be allowed on the stand.
She's obviously sending Jodi a coded message - probably along the lines of "Don't worry Baby. My testimony will make them see how lovely you are and will get you off. Then you can get me off again like last time I visited you in jail and you ate me out so good!"
- Ha Ha r346. Jodi does seem to have her idiotic "experts" under her flappy, pastrami curtain spell.
- These poor jurors.
I wonder how long they were told the trial was expected to take when it first started.
Now this lady with the soothing voice has been on the stand saying as much as she can and talking as slowly as possible (since she's earning $300/hr for her court appearance) with no end in sight.
- The fucking expert rabbit toothed chick said "booty". Jesus. And they say she is well spoken?
- Hahaha, R345!
- I don't remember if the jury saw all the police interrogation tapes or not because it was so fucking long ago, but they are showing excerpts now on HLN. They have Jodi at first (when she claimed intruders) saying that she would never hurt Travis and he never raped her. Then she changes it of course and does the whole self defense thing. How would her people defend that? Of course they will say she didn't want to admit the rape, blah, blah. But it mainly just shows how she changes her story when it suits her and it looks bad.
- Jane Valez owns this case. She put it on the map. Her coverage is absolutely hilarious. It's like an SNL sketch...
'Is Jodi's eye shadow the same color she wore the day she killed Travis?'
She is a goddess!
- Isn't this therapist on the stand the biggest dyke who ever dyked?
- Well not THE biggest r353.
- Did Mark Eiglarsh (expert attorney on Dr. Drew) just compare this chick to Alice from the Brady Bunch?
- That Eiglarsh dude is cute!
- Yeah he is r356 and he's a Brady fan..bonus!
- Ann B. Davis seems like a very nice lady and she has the kind of nurturing manner that I think I'd look for if I ever needed help with a domestic violence issue.
But if she actually believes the crap she's dishing out about how Jodi has always been the victim of her upbringing and her circumstances and never in her life has steered her own ship - well that causes me to seriously question her competency in making assessments.
- Agreed r358. And her big name credential woman is Brenda Klubine (sp) who was pretty good looking and had a nice little figure back in the day..makes me wonder if the "hotties" are able to easily sway her. I have hotties in quotes because I think Jodi is fucking repellant but I bet a big Michfest type like Ann B would dig her.
- Is she just giving a broad expert opinion about domestic violence, or did she actually asset Jodi, and is giving her assessment of her?
- Jane Velez Mitchell started saying that the woman made the now controversial statement: people who comes from homes where there's drug abuse/physical abuse, etc., are more likely to be abusers themselves. No, this was only a controversial statement to YOU Jane, and she's right. Jane takes issue because she's an alcoholic, something she reminds us of every three seconds.
- I assume she met her r360, she's telling specific things like what Jodi's dad said about her "booty" being too big, etc. I mean I guess she can just be using that as a basis for her opinion but she fucking better have met her or this is yet another waste of time.
- [quote]Is she just giving a broad expert opinion about domestic violence, or did she actually asset Jodi, and is giving her assessment of her?
Her first 2 days on the stand were very broad, r360, and the background information she was providing about domestic violence wasn't necessarily specific to this case.
But today she was distinctly referring to reading Jodi's journals and emails that she's also seen. What I wonder is if the defense who contract with her have only shown Ann B. Davis specific pieces that would shape her opinion in their favor and withheld anything that would clue ol' girl in.
I'm confused to. about whether she's done a face-to-face analysis. One of the talking heads on HLN previously said that Ann B. hasn't even met Jodi, but I thought I'd heard previous testimony that she had. Ann B. Davis hasn't mentioned an in-person meeting though yet.
- What R363! That's just another layer of ridiculous for this if she hasn't even met her. It's like the fucking dopey speculations in US and other tabloid rags where the plastic surgeons say so-and-so has had this and that work done but then they are careful to explain that they have never treated that person, it's just based on their opinions. Jesus..another waste of time. Especially if she was only given certain excerpts to read. What a waste of money.
- Is the Juan Martinez rock star cane signing going to be a problem or is the Defense grasping at straws? It probably wasn't the most prudent decision on his part but didnt look unethical. He didn't say anything. He just smiled and signed a cane.
Maybe this evens out when that weird admin asst for the Defense was becoming a little too chummy with Jodi in the courtroom. Someone certainly put a stop that.
- [quote]Is the Juan Martinez rock star cane signing going to be a problem or is the Defense grasping at straws? It probably wasn't the most prudent decision on his part but didnt look unethical. He didn't say anything. He just smiled and signed a cane.
The 'rock star' treatment of Juan isn't unethical specifically r365. Although it's rare for DAs to get this kind of fandom, he isn't technically doing anything wrong by signing autographs or taking pictures with laypersons.
The only thing that the defense can legitimately complain about is that if any jury members see that behavior outside the courtroom, it can be considered prejudicial. I think it gets into a little bit of a gray area which makes it tough to define. If jurors witness 'civilians' dishing out hero-worship to Juan, it can give them the impression that we who follow the trial all think he's great and is clearly winning his case. And of course the jurors are supposed to remain ignorant to how the public at large is digesting what is happening in the trial.
While it's not unethical, I'm sure the judge will ask him to refrain from that practice for the remainder of the trial - at least on the premises of the courthouse where it's possible jurors might see it.
So after court recessed for the day (and long weekend) this morning, each of the jurors was asked individually if they observed any of that behavior outside of the courtroom. And I believe one of the HLN folks reported that that they believe none of the jurors said they saw the autograph session.
So it was much ado about nothing - as is most of the stuff Brother Nurmi brings up.
- Um, I object to the last part of your statement r366
- R366 thanks for clarifying. That puts it in perspective. I'd hate for some obscure or unintentional action by any party in this case to cause a mistrial. NG or JVM were saying on Weds that reality for JA is setting in. The trial is approaching the end and the jury will be deliberating in the near future. The cameras and daily attention (which she loves) will be ending soon and she could very well be behind bars as a convicted murderer.
- Ann B. Davis says that she spoke with Jodi for 60 hours, read her journals, spoke with friends, family and ex boyfriends. Read text and e mails and also e mails from Travis to other women. She also watched the CBS interview both edited and unedited.
- I watched "North Country" for the first time last night and it made me cry (Mary, I know) and it pissed me off and reminded me of Jodi the skeevy liar. The women who really do have to deal with violent men and sexual assault/abuse are not always taken seriously because of bitches like this. I hope this is over by the 11th like they have predicted.
- Why is BatGirl on the JVM show? Miss Jane is working my last nerves with her "kinky sex" line. I mean, really, besides the pop rocks & totssie roll incident, Jodi & Travis were mostly vanilla. Anal sex is not kinky! A lot of straight peopke are having anal on a regular basis.
- So far Ann B. David has picked the best outfits to wear on the stand each day.
- Now that they've excused Juror No. 5 for whatever reason, I hope that means she is free of all her restrictions about speaking on the case.
I'd like to hear her talk to the media today and tell what she thinks about the case. Apparently she has trouble with holding her tongue - at least that is the speculation for why she was kicked out.
I'd rather hear her than Ann B. Davis' possibly well-intentioned, but nonsense testimony.
- If I heard correctly, I believe Ann B. Davis just testified that she doesn't know much about using e-mail.
This is their expert witness??????
- Beth Karas just reported on HLN that the court has not restricted the dismissed Juror No. 5 from speaking publicly about the case.
So I'm sure they are all jostling to get the first interview with her.
Hopefully there will be something tonight. How pissed I would be though to have devoted this much time to the trial and then just be sent home.
- r375 I know, what a waste of three months. Her lawyers are pissing me off with their constant trying for a mistrial. I wonder why Beth didn't just follow the woman to her car and talk to her. There can't be too many people who are leaving, she should be easy to spot. Oh and now the expert is saying that the other jurors may be mad that she was kicked off and take it out on the defense I guess? Should be interesting.
- Wow, looks like Juan Martinez got rid of the gray and colored his hair. Guess he likes the attention and wants to look his best.
- I turned this trial off a week ago.
- I wonder if what Ann B. Davis is really an 'expert' at is innocently saying things that will cause a sidebar and bring proceedings to a halt.
She's happy as a clam sitting there whether they are talking to her or not. She's bringing in that $300/hour no matter what. I'd be a slow talker too.
- I don't know why this woman would stake her reputation on this trial and defending Arias. Her job is to basically talk shit about Travis Alexander. "He went with this girl and that girl and that girl..." Well, I guess her deserved to die a terrible death.
- I agree r380, but she's not a highly sought after expert that I can see. She will be after this, she's banking on it. I want to smack Jodi in her fucking ugly, smirky face after she smiled about that juror being let go.
- This is abuse? I should be a serial killer by this point )
Most of us have liked someone more than they have liked us or vice versa, been used etc..... You leave and meet someone else. Who kills someone over this.
- I have always thought that the murder was excessive to what Jodi went through with Travis. And earlier in the thread I posted about wondering what really set her off. Some people felt that it was Travis taking the trip to Mexico without her and that was a last straw for Jodi and so she killed him.
But then when I read about Jodi's relationship with her mother and how angry Jodi is at her mother and how violent it made me wonder if Travis got the anger Jodi feels about her mother. I mean she killed the hell out of him and she knew he was not faithful that was not new.
She still looks like she has a lot of anger in her. So I don't think the murder was just about Travis. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of people she wants dead.
- I agree with you r383, I think I remember you saying that on the first thread. And I think that Travis really did say something about how a kid could take better pictures and all of these things made her snap. She's a fucking wacky bitch but a calculating one who needs to be put away or executed.
- "Anne B. Davis," is now testifying that Jodi said Travis masterbated to the pic of a small boy and she is stating it as if it were fact.
How they're allowed to denigrate this guy's character is reprehensible.
- The expert witness apparently fell ill today and court recessed after only half a day.
I haven't watched the trial for a few days as it has become so tedious. And desperate. Watching Jennifer try to ask questions of substance coupled with the witness trying to turn water into wine is painful.
I'll start tuning in again when Juan Martinez starts his redirect or there are questions from the jury.
- I'm 100% with you R386 - I could have written the exact same post. Although I had the live stream on my computer yesterday, I realized that I was barely paying any attention to what Ann B. had to say anymore.
So today I decided that I'm not even going to watch anymore until Juan gets his chance. I'll be curious to see if he is as aggressive (if that's the right word) in his questioning of her as he has been with other defense witnesses. My guess is that he will be, but maybe only slightly tapered off. It seems to be his style. But I'm sure he's smart enough that he doesn't want to give an impression to the jury that he's attacking an elder, mostly soft-spoken lady. He'll be able to demonstrate that her conclusions are nutty and baseless without assaulting her verbally...I hope.
But if he goes line by line through Arias' journal entries the same way this defense attorney has been, I'll lose interest in that pretty quickly too.
On another topic - apparently there has still been no news that the juror released yesterday is ready to talk to the media. At least I haven't heard anything.
- Thanks, r386. I was wondering WTF happened.
I'm sure she couldn't help it, but this kinda shit is why this fucking trial is going to be six months.
Oh, and I'm bored and waiting for Martinez, too.
- R387 I hope the dismissed juror (#5) stays out of the press until this trial is over.
Even if she has no admonishment about speaking to the press, it would suck if something was said that the Defense could sink their teeth into and try for another mistrial or give too much info on other jurors, etc. There's more that could go wrong than right if she starts making things public.
She'll still be sought after once the trial is over so hopefully she can contain herself and wait it out.
- I like the police interviews HLN has been showing of Jodi's parents being questioned about their daughter's arrest.
Both mom and pop pretty much say that Jodi had mental problems and unreasonable anger issues and neither of them are too surprised that she was a suspect in a murder.
Ann B. Davis is so sharp though, she didn't pick up on anything like that in her analysis.
- R389 My co-worker just sent me a text saying juror #5 has released a statement. I'm about to look it up myself.
- She's not going to do any interviews. She doesn't want to distract from the trial.
- Stupid, confusing news story. Why is impartiality a reason for dismissal. I thought it was a key qualification.
[quote]The woman, identified only as Juror 5, allegedly made statements to other jurors during a closed meeting that showed she was an impartial jury member, according to a motion filed by Kirk Nurmi, Arias' lead attorney.
- R393, jurors can be impartial. Ultimately they are expected to express an opinion one way or the other. Odds are that most of the jurors already have an idea in their minds of which way they are leaning as to her guilt or innocence, which makes them impartial.
But they aren't allowed to express those feelings to anyone, including to each other. They aren't supposed to discuss anything about the trial even amongst themselves until the case is turned over to them for deliberations. So if she verbalized anything that indicated her feelings one way or the other, then she did wrong.
And it doesn't even have to be specifically about whether she thought Jodi was guilty or innocent. It could be something as innocuous as complimenting someone's appearance on the witness stand or complaining about how mean Juan seems sometimes.
Based on the fact that Travis' sisters were crying and Jodi and her lady attorney smiled in court when it was announced the juror was released, it can probably be assumed that whatever comment(s) Juror No. 5 made indicated some bias for the prosecution. But we won't know for certain until she tells her story.
- r390 I know, her mom seems to have her number. I can't imagine anyone I am friends with or related to murdering someone. I was floored when her mom said she asked her if she had anything to do with Travis' death. I can't imagine any one of my friends or family telling me about a death and me thinking they may have done it. I hope the jurors get to see this, it proves again that the intent could have always been there. I wonder if #5 is watching HLN and if so, did she already have an idea about the real Jodi? I can't imagine anyone is falling for her crap but maybe. How weird to have been so secluded from this for months and now to hear what the world (or Drew and company) have been saying..trippy shit.
- More info go to Webslueths.com and mydeathspace.com.
These are 2 excellent sites for True Crime.
- Love the ann b davis references-but I have a feeling that this witness has never wanted any meat from Sam the butcher.
- Trials are not for entertainment purposes. They are there to defend someone accused of a crime. In this case in the face of the death penalty.
Just because you don't like e defendant doesn't mean she doesn't get to put on her complete defense. Evidence may be offered that you don't see the need for but that evidence may be needed to make certain arguments in closing or for other trial or other post-conviction purposes. That's why juries are constantly reminded not to come to any conclusions until the trial is finished and they retire to deliberate.
In this case the defendant's state of mind is important. This psychologist has spent a great deal of time in background on the defendant as well as a lot of time with her in person. Her testimony and how she reached her professional opinions are essential to the defense. In a death penalty case this is how it works.
In federal cases there would have been a pretrial hearing wherein the defendant presents the case why the US Atty's Office should NOT seek the death penalty. This is the kind of evidence that would be presented along with anything else to mitigate penalty. There is a "death committee" that advises the US Attorney whether to seek the death penalty or not. The defendant may or may not participate in this hearing - some opt out of it because it means presenting evidence you may not want to reveal in advance of trial or at least so far in advance of trial.
I must say it is very instructive to read some of the more outlandish and biased posts here and elsewhere. It does confirm a lot to me.
- @398 I agree with much of what you said.
I have been following this case on this site, websleuths and mydeathspace.
I can not believe how that young lady was able to murder Travis. She "killed him dead". Point Blank. She was Enraged!!!
I do not believe it was self defense BUT...... I will say that I have come to the conclusion, like many on this board, that Travis was a Grade A dick. I totally believe he treated her like his dirty little secret. I believe he "talked" crazy to her and was above and beyond disrespectful.
Jodi does NOT deserve to die BUT she did EARN the death penalty.
Travis did NOT deserve to be butchered BUT he acted like a dick. A major A-hole and placed himself in a very high risk place, not realizing that Jodi was the ONE.......to cut his azz up.
This case is insane. She is twisted. She allowed her anger to build up and then exploded like a "straight fool" and now she gets to go to prison for life and may receive the Death Penalty.
A shame. All around.
I have a love/hate relationship with this site.
- Being a dick isn't punishable by death, or many of us would also be murdered. If you think it wasn't self defense (which it wasn't) then you can stop right there. Fair is fair, you don't just get to fucking murder people with impunity. Nacny Grace sucks, Drew is a dick, this is a farce, etc. But none of that means you can get away with murder. And what exactly have lawyers been proven right about by reading our comments? That we hate Jodi and that's why we would be quick to fry here? We hate her because she's a fucking murderous liar. Her trial has been more than fair. Who cares what we think about her? We aren't on the jury.
Did you bother to read what I wrote? I said she EARNED going to prison and she may have to pay with her life.
And being a dick with the wrong person will get you killed. This is not the first time someone has killed due to being treated disrespectfully.
I never stated that someone should be able to get away with murder.
Reading is Fundamental
- r401 Reading is fundamental..where did you read that I was talking to you in my post? I meant in general, people are saying she did it but he was a dick, she's not getting a fair trial, etc. I have even said the Travis is a dick thing but the bottom line is that it was either self defense or it wasn't and I don't think it was.
Did you guys see juror 5 back in court? Man, I hope she doesn't screw things up for anyone. Oh and loved the Snow White thing. I don't think Juan is a jerk, that's just how he speaks. At any rate this chick is looking laughable (more so) now.
- When I saw that they allowed Juror No. 5 to watch from the gallery, I was thinking the same thing ,r402. It just seems obvious to me that the letting the remaining jury see her in the courtroom makes it more challenging to follow the judge's instruction to 'not speculate on why she was dismissed' in the first place.
It's a very nice gesture to let her be there to observe and maybe still feel like she's participating in some way, but doing something nice for her shouldn't outweigh the possible perception the rest of jury picks up on. It seems like a mistake that an appeal will jump on.
She could watch on TV like the rest of us - where she'd have access to much, much more incriminating information than she would in the courtroom.
Also, I haven't watched it because I find her tedious, but there is a YouTube vid of one of Ann B's presentations...if anyone is curious to know if she really feels Snow White was a battered woman.
- Thanks for posting that r403. I may watch it later even though I heard it is an hour..yikes. I agree she is tedious and that kind of seems like the problem here. When you see a woman like that who seems to not dislike men exactly, but prefer women and always see things from the most victimized viewpoint, you can't really trust them. It would have been better to just have a regular, objective woman who can weigh both sides and give an opinion on it. So far the quackish psychologist seemed to have a crush on Jodi and this woman (even if jokingly) thinks all women are abused and probably crushes on Jodi too. I have not watched a lot of her testimony just like I didn't watch Dr. Samuels because they are both working off of untruths and it seems a waste of time. I hope that Juan makes her biases clear and known and we can hurry up and move on.
For juror 5, yeah, why not just watch it on HLN and maybe go down on the last day and say hit to her friends. If I was on that jury I would be clamoring to see what info the general public was getting and happy to not have to go to downtown Phoenix anymore.
- HLN is exactly what's wrong with America. Sure, it's entertaining, but it's a train wreck of a network, and it mirrors the mindset of the average American.
- [quote]More info go to Webslueths.com and mydeathspace.com.
Webslueths is right-wing, filled with Southern conservative fraus, who hate gays.
- I'm starting to think that the Judge ordered Juror number 5 to sit and watch the rest of the trial, even though she won't be able to delibrate with the rest of the jury.
Perhaps, she was telling other Jurors that she couldn't wait to fry Arias when it came to the deliberations and this is her punishement from the Judge.
- You could be right r407, as far as her hating Jodi and saying that. When they kept talking about her and her unusual hair I was picturing a hot rockabilly type chick with a pompadour pony-tail, and then I saw her. She's fat and not real cute so I could see her disliking Jodi.
- Jane Velez actually tied in her animal shit with Travis Alexander. 'He loved animals... his dog is being taken of by... he was also against factory farming... next, a discussion about an issue near and dear to Travis' heart.' God, she, like Nancy Grace, have no shame.
- Last night the HLN after dark show was dedicated to Jodi's hair. That was what they had the attorneys grade...nothing about court but how they liked her new do. How embarrassing. I used to love Vinnie but he seems way too into this. I feel so bad for Ryan Smith.
- R394, I am still confused by your explanation in addition to the article. I thought "impartial" meant NOT showing favor to either side.
Is it like "flammable" and "inflammable" which actually mean the same thing?
- Yeah, maybe I didn't say that very well, r393 / r411, so I understand the confusion.
Let me try again.
A jury does have to start with impartial individuals. That is, they have no opinion on the case or the guilt or innocence of the accused and also have no prejudices or personal bias that wouldn't allow them to weigh all the evidence presented and come to a fair decision in the end.
And they are instructed to do exactly that - not come to an overall conclusion about guilt or innocence until they have been presented with everything.
But as the case goes along, individual jurors are making mini-decisions (for lack of a better term) all the time. You have to decide if you are comfortable that someone speaking on the stand is being truthful, for example. And you might decide if a piece of evidence really supports what the attorney is saying it does.
I'd find it hard to believe that these jurors in particular find Jodi to be a forthright and completely reliable witness. And I wouldn't be surprised if they have formed opinions on Juan's technique or bulldog-style of questioning.
So as those decisions are made, jurors do technically lose the impartiality that they had prior to the beginning of a trial. And that's what I meant. Some biases do happen as the trial goes along, and that's to be expected.
But they can't express any of those feelings to the other jury members which is apparently where No. 5 went wrong - although we don't know for certain.
And of course they still have to absorb all the evidence and weigh it equally before they make the ultimate decision.
- "Mr. Martinez, are you angry with me?"
When the courtroom broke out laughing at Ann B. asking that, none of the attorneys cracked. But that chick that sits at the desk behind Nurmi all day, the one that sometimes walks over to Jodi and whispers with her, she caught herself laughing. It looked like she immediately tried to hide her face...as well she should.
- [quote]Last night the HLN after dark show was dedicated to Jodi's hair. That was what they had the attorneys grade...nothing about court but how they liked her new do. How embarrassing. I used to love Vinnie but he seems way too into this.
Vinnie = Nancy disGrace. He's a blowhard, douche bag.
Why does HLN and TruTV only have prosecutor-led shows? What defense attorney is running one?? Of course none, since the public finds lynch mobbing more exciting. I feel bad that these jurors have their lives at risk thanks to the likes of Nancy disGrace.
- Juan Martinez and the Snowwhite questioning was ridiculous. Did he smoke weed?
Hope he calms down and regroups over the weekend and takes that woman to task.
- I thought it was a brilliant line of questioning R415. She knew exactly why he was making the comparison between her presentation and the methods she used to evaluate Jodi in this case. I guess you forgot all the days this "expert" was on direct recalling stories (from the 70's/80's) that were completely irrelevant to this case. 20 mins into the Snow White cross, JM had her hemmed up on the stand looking at the defense table for help. She acted just as smug & antagonistic as Jodi and as unprofessional & outdated as Dr. Samuels on the stand. She was already giving off a man hater vibe but it came out loud and clear once JM got past her nice lady act to slip. She sold out for money and she wanted to push her book. Did you y'all know she approached Travis's sister Sam? I believe Sam is the cop.
HLN is out of control. You would think with all the shows they have, each show could cover a different aspect of the trial. Oh, no...they have the same people running between each show and talking about the same thing, the same damn thing.
- WE network was rerunning older Dateline shows yesterday and there was an episode profiling a murder case from several years back involving a man that stabbed his wife multiple times by their back yard swimming pool and then pushing her body into the pool. The case was in AZ Maricopa county and the prosecutor was, you guessed it, Juan Martinez. It showed clips of JM in action in the courtroom and his style was as it is in the Arias case.
The murderer and victim profiles in the case are very different from Jodi A. and Travis but the elements in the case are very similar. The wife was stabbed multiple times. The husband had no recall of the murder (fog) and claimed a sleepwalking defense. He didn't deny doing it, just no recall of it. He did however, have the cognition to hide the bloody clothes and try to cover his tracks. He went to a sleep clinic while in custody for sleepwalking testing and had sleep specialists testify as expert witnesses saying it possible his story was true.
In the end, the jury didn't buy it and he was sentenced to life w/no parole. They mean business in AZ and I bet JA will end up with death sentence or life w/out parole.
- Just an FYI #413......the gal who sits behind Nurmi is the mitigation specialist.
If I were Jodi I'd want my mitigation specialist to dress appropriately for a court room setting and not in her usual clevage revealing tops, with earrings hanging to her collar bone.
- With all the speculation on Jodi's mental state and if she is Borderline the link below provides some insight.
- This link takes a look at whether she is a sociopath or not. Granted this speculation is all done without talking to her or those close to her directly. Now that her parents have spoken is does sound like she had behavioral problems before the murder occurred.
- R416, Why did LaViolette approach Alexander's sister?
- R291, I don't know but a lot of people in the courthouse including JM and Det. Flores witnessed it. That is very inappropriate behavior coming from someone who is supposed to be a professional that has testified in previous court cases.
Jodi and her defense team along with their "experts" are just plain tacky. I don't understand why the slutty Mitigation Specialist is allowed to have her cleveage showing all the time. At least the judge put a stop to their whispering/makeout sessions during the side bars. I saw her burst out laughing too.
- Whoops, R291 that response was for R421. I don't know how I mixed those numbers up.
- I am so sick of the bias on display during this trial and its participants. It's as venomous as the trial watchers during the Casey Anthony trial. It's like a pack of wailing hyenas.
It's as if no one understands what a trial is supposed to be about or how it works.
Neither side in this case has completely clean hands. And spare me the kneejerk response that Alexander didn't deserve to die. That's competely beside the point.
At this point the major asshole in this case is that arrogant prosecutor who refused to accept the defendant's offer to plead guilty with a 25 year sentence. Seriously WTF? This is so typical of obscure prosecutors who want to be in the limelight and make a bigger name for themselves. Cost be damned, effect on families be damned, justice be damned - I want a showcase trial starring ME.
- R424, you thought 25 years (most likely getting out before that) was sufficient??
- R425 I think the plea deal was for manslaughter. And, she would've been able to get out before 25 yrs because of the time she's already served. I'm pretty sure Travis's family wanted the trial as well as the State. I think we're all in agreement that Travis was a jerk. That being said, he is not a rapist, pedophile, drug user and GF beater. No expert witness should be approaching the victim's family. The defense team should be trying to make sure Jodi receives a fair trial...NOT get away with murder by making up lies. That huge bill is coming from the defense side. Casey Anthony is vile for many of the same reasons, only her victim was an innocent child.
Damn that ME was a hot!
- I think r425 is right, his family wanted this trial, his sister used to talk about it years ago on some of the local Phoenix sites, maybe the New times? Juan has been on tv a few times for the Faylene Grant murder and some others on Dateline. I don't think he really cares. Her team are scummy liars and that's the reason people don't like them. There have been defense lawyers that aren't smirky jerks but that Wilmot chick is not one of them. I saw on the Phil Spector bio that he spent a million on his defense team. Jodi's is at about 800 k right now. I bet her team will write about this but I doubt Juan will.
- Here I am being extra special again. I was agreeing with R425 but the rest of my comment was in response to R424.
- The plea offered by the defense was not for manslaughter. It was for second degree murder which carries a mandatory 10 and a maximum of 22 years. I believe it can amount to up to 25 years if there are violations of release. I don't have any doubt she'd have received the high end.
Twenty years is a lifetime in prison. If you had any concept of life in a penitentiary you'd never be so dismissive of these sentences. If you want her destroyed then that kind of a sentence would do it. And if all the horrible things I've been reading about Arias were true then why does anyone think she'd get out early?
So, yes, I think that 22 or 25 years, whatever the time, is sufficient. I find it bizarre that the family was insistent on a trial with a defendant willing to plead to 2nd degree murder. It seems to be popular to think Alexander was completely innocent but his behavior to Arias had elements of abuse and control.
The hyperbole is beyond annoying. It's as if Alexander has this fan club that refuses to see anything but a choir boy inspirational speaker. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.
R427, you're the perfect example of the ridiculous over the top comments on this case. "Her team are scummy liars". LOL!
- R426, unless you know what the expert said then you can't label it inappropriate.
Any time you have a defendant fighting for her life you know it will be costy. I have seen cases with more experts than this case and they weren't even death penalty cases. You don't get to fault the defense for doing its job or hiring experts.
Again these costs could have been avoided if the prosecution had not been hell bent on a trial. They would have had an acceptance of responsibility and a long sentence. The trial has been a waste.
- Glad I made you laugh. Shall I call them noble liars? It's a scummy thing to lie like that to get their girl an acquittal. They make a mockery of child abuse and domestic abuse and they know it. There are other ways to lie to defend the guilty, they are doing it in a scummy way.
- My issue with you is calling them lies and liars. You have no basis for that. Especially with experts who are giving opinions as to Arias' state of mind.
As someone who has to deal with all this on a regular basis it is always amusing how excited and often over the top viewers get over trials. Especially realizing the games played by both sides and that none of us can be certain of the truth. I am particularly bothered though by the sexist insults - slutty among them.
- [quote]My issue with you is calling them lies and liars. You have no basis for that. Especially with experts who are giving opinions as to Arias' state of mind.
Even stopping short of calling them liars, they are at least being extremely flexible with their testimony, based just on the temporary amnesia guy alone.
And didn't one of the witnesses testify about Jodi's state of mind without actually examining her? That's actually grounds to be kicked out of the American Psychiatric Association.
The Voice of the Night
- JA deserves more than 20 years in prison for what she did. It was incredibly vicious. No one in this discussion believes Travis was a choir boy but she had the option to stay away from him.
- I don't have to know what ALV said to the victim's family, like I said it was inappropriate for her to approach the victim's family in court. Perhaps, she should've actually interviewed them before she took the stand and testified about their brother and their childhood.
Are you bothered by the fact that the main reason the defense is claiming Travis is a pedophile is because he seemed to prefer anal sex? Does it bother you that most domestic violence groups/victims are speaking out against Jodi and her defense team for making a mockery of the battered women's syndrome. You should be more concerned that a domestic violence expert doesn't think men can be victims of domestic violence.
I called the MS slutty after all those whispering sessions she and Jodi would share during side bar. I am a women and it looked like they were having mini makeout sessions. Those shirts's the MS wears that reveal her cleveage is not appropriate. She's in a professional environment. Dress for the courtroom. She would look great wearing something like that after work.
- Wow, How can someone think 22-25 years is a fair sentence, Jodi could still have a good 20 to 30 years of life, not to mention freedom. While Travis has not 1 nano second of life to live. How is that fair?
- Can anyone tell me how to watch the trial. Everyone is talking about this and I feel like an idiot.
- r437 It's on HLN everyday and then discussed every night. You can record for the whole day and watch it like that or have Nancy Grace and the HLN crew of creeps like Drew Pinsky dissect it for you. Not that you need them to tell you to dislike Jodi, I hate them and still hate Jodi. I think it streams on CNN too.
- There are different sites online that show the live stream, r437. I use the attached which features the live courtroom action (without any commentary).
- Thanks for the links.
- What does HLN when there isn't a high profile trial?
- Is the trial on today?
- When there's no big trial, the ratings go down, and they focus on missing persons, kidnapped children, and various murders across the country.
- Yes, the trial starts at 9:30 am pacific time.
Martinez will continue his cross of Laviolette.
Let's hope he doesn't f u c k it up.
- I think Juan is doing pretty well. He is showing compelling evidence that Jodi did stalk Travis but of course this idiot apologist keeps denying it, which makes her look deluded and dense, as we all thought.
- Does anyone know how much longer this trial is expected to take?
- r446 I heard a few weeks ago that they thought it would end on 4/11 but I don't see that happening now. Maybe next week?
- And now I just saw the judge saying that a juror has requested that court be recessed on 4/22 for a prior commitment and the judge has said ok. So it may still be going on then.
- Jodi sure is scribbling a lot today while Ann B. is being cross examined. I like to imagine that she's sketching pics of herself stabbing Juan in the eyes.
But she's probably just adding notes to her journal for her eventual book (which she won't be allowed to profit from).
Is Juror No. 5 in the house today? That's a question for anyone watching on HLN because I'm sure they'd talk about it - in addition to showing her interview comments. I'm watching the courtroom live feed and while they cut to shots of the peanut gallery once in a while, I haven't caught sight of her funky hair.
- r449 I think I heard Jean say that juror 5 wasn't there today. I hope Jodi is not able to profit from a book but it seems the Son of Sam laws are not as tight or that there are ways around them because i know I have heard of criminals cashing in lately.
- Thanks r450.
I've seen Jodi turn almost completely around in her seat once or twice today and look to the back of the courtroom. Since it would be odd for her to suddenly want to make eye contact with her mom or other family (who she never seems to look at), I assumed she too was looking to see if her arch-nemesis, and former jury member, was present.
Actually I guess Juan is her main nemesis, but she seemed to be aware that the dismissed juror wasn't favoring her side in any way.
I'd be curious to know what the Arizona law is regarding perps profiting from their crimes. That state seems so hardcore in many ways that I'd be surprised if they didn't have a solid restriction. But what do I know?
- How many more days is expecting of this stupid trial???!!! HURRY THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- As to the defense expenses: Public defenders do not have large budgets. They have undoubtedly had to petition the court for money for experts, and the court has approved it. They simply cannot take a death penalty case to trial without testing, evaluations, and testimony.
The expenses of this trial would be minimized greatly if it weren't a death penalty case. The prosecutor is ultimately responsible for the expenses by insisting on the dp. Anyone who favors the dp must realize that the costs involved are almost intolerable.
- Is there a link to the awful text messages that were entered into the record? I half overheard something about them when Ashleigh Banfield was flapping her gums about them when I was at work this morning, and she made some comment that they had to really cherry-pick the ones that were fit to air on TV.
The Voice of the Night
- Wow. Martinez vs Laviolette. Juan's getting caught up with this apology thing like he did with Snowwhite.
He was doing good before that.
- r454 VOTN, I think there was a link on the first thread. I'm sorry I don't remember where off the top of my head. The link also had Jodi and Trav's blogs, it was good stuff. The messages I read weren't sexual so much as the "you're a fucking psycho" type shit.
r455 I still think he is doing ok. She's totally biased and he wants it to be known.
- Lost. Apologizing for what?
- Life in prison.
- r457 That Alyce walked into her Jodi interviews and apologized to Jodi right off the bat for I guess, her being abused by Travis? She claims she did it to establish rapport and get Jodi talking but clearly she is smitten with Jodi. I just saw a commercial for juror 5 doing an interview. I had it paused for a bit and can now ff so it may have already happened.
- HLN is entertaining, but a disgrace, and dangerous. People actually get their info and idea about the law and court system from it. It's disturbing. Lynch-mobbing. Too bad people haven't warned the public that this is mere entertainment, and accept it that way.
- I'd be curious to read Jodi's Manifesto.
I don't necessarily need one of the autographed copies that she was distributing to her jailmates, but it would be interesting to read just how conceited she comes across...which of course her attorneys are turning tricks trying keep out of evidence.
How goofy that they just called a 3 minute recess (to do what? I couldn't tell), but then called court for the day after only 4 more minutes of testimony.
- Alyce read Jodi's journal before the first time she saw Jodi. She apologized, saying she knew that felt intrusive to Jodi. Alyce used it as a way to establish arpport with Jodi.
- R461,this judge is not running a tight ship. She is a big part of the problem. And I say that as a retired trial court judge.
- Even if Alyce didn't apologize to Jodi or whatever, a telling thing she said is that she bought Jodi books because "jail is boring". Yep, it is boring, it's a punishment and that's basically what the fuck we want to do to people who are being punished. And save the she's not convicted yet line, she's an admitted murderer and her being bored is no skin off my nose.
- OT, how fucking dopy is the actress reading Jodi's journal? God, I know her subject matter is shit but the way she reads is just lame.
- R461, 463, I swaer you people bitch about everything. Maybe someone had to run to the bathroom. Maybe someone had to retrieve a piece of evidence. Take their medication. Technical glitch. And on and on and on. It could be a million and one things. I suppose you would also be amazed that life goes on for these people apart from
Gossip all you want but just stop with the opinions based on NOTHING.
- The defense has filed for another mistrial. They must know their expert is a dummy.
- R466, I guess I didn't make it clear that my post at 463 was not in response to 461. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
That doesn't change my opinion of the judge.
- And here is Nancy, insulting her guests as always. Even OJ's lawyer thinks Jodi's people are unethical. Speaking of OJ, I thought Judge Glass was pretty unprofessional. If circuit court judge is still here, do you agree?
- Good lord I just saw that R463 is a retired trial judge. Then what the fuck are you talking about. LOL! You should know better.
Criticize her evidentiary rulings or the like. But taking a break? Geez. If you gotta go you gotta go.
I do, however, appreciate your comments at R453. It is indeed the prosecutor's fault for the costs incurred here. Nothing will convince me his refusal to accept a Murder 2 plea from her wasn't motivated by his ego. WHat more was necessary to prove and for whose benefit. Families should not be dictating these decision. Especially since he had to have seen some of this evidence about the victim before and saw there was a possibility of some level of abuse abuse/control.
This prosecutor is a DP slut. I cannot believe there are as many DP worthy cases as this man approves for this one county.
- So what does everyone think her motive was for killing him?
- Nancy Grace has the gay therapist dude from Bravo's LA Shrinks program on.
- Good God, R470, did you not see my post where I clarified that my opinion was in no related to the three minute recess. I apologized for not making it clear that my post at 463 was not related to 461. Settle down.
And I could give you my reasoning which is not based on things such as three minute recesses, but you wouldn't understand. To understand would take a moment of thought.
- There was a man named Brian that was a Jodi supporter and in the court everyday. Is he still a supporter? I have not heard anything about him lately. The site that believes JA is innocent said that Brian lied and not to believe anything that the said.
- R469, I agree about Judge Glass. She came from a media background and apparently can't resist the camera. I think she retired from the bench to return to tv. For some reason, judges in Nevada are sort of known for being a bit outlandish.
- [quote]This prosecutor is a DP slut.
- Thanks r475. I thought she was a bit rabid about it myself. He wasn't being tried for murders that happened in 94 and I know many people thought it was cool that she laid that on him but it was unfair. I felt for the guy.
r474 Was it a Mexican guy? I thought I saw a guy saying how he loved Jodi and went everyday. I will have to read the JA page.
- R473, I assure you I would understand.
R470 et al
He did not look Mexican but he was the one " in love with her " He was on Nancy Grace and I believe Drew and JVL. He seems to have disappeared.
I don't get these people that fall for murderers.
- R460 unclutch your pearls, you dizzy queen.
I'll send Mammy to fetch Aunt Pitty's "swoon bottle" of brandy and some smelling salts.
- I had not seen any of the trial or read much about it. Over the weekend I read some links in this thread from psychology today and then from another site that did a breakdown speculating on what Jodi's mental diagnosis could be. It was the breakdown on the Mental Health & Criminal Justice site that helped me reach my opinion.
I think Jodi has antisocial personality disorder (sociopath) not borderline or bipolar. I agree with who ever on here said they believe if Jodi had not been caught that she would have killed again. I think Jodi planned killing Travis for several months before she actually did it. I think she like other killers wanted to possess and control him totally and like other killers have said in interviews killing him would make her feel like she was in total control of him and in death she finally completely "owned" him. It does not make sense to us but to murders it is a valid and sought after thing.
I think she loved killing him and I think she would kill again.
- R478: Snerk.
- Honestly, when I first caught this trial I was a bit hooked, but it's so boring now. I think Juan is doing a good job. Hopefully he pulls it all together at the end.
I really believe that Arias had this planned (obviously), because she knew he was done with her. I also think she lured him with sex. He may have been a virgin, who knows? I've dealt with people like her before. They're nuts and will not take no for an answer.
What was it about the genius IQ? did the woman on the stand say she had it or did Jodi say it about herself? She's not a genius, just creepy and a liar. I had an ex that was a liar, and you cannot win with them. Their brains work in ways ours don't. I couldn't keep up. It's like a constant riddle.
- One more thing. In the interview with the police, she was crying. She said she was just thinking about all of the things she will never get to do. Not one tear for Travis. Not one. I agree about her killing again. It doesn't seem to bother her one bit. If she would have shown some remorse she would have come off a little more human.
- Thanks r479. The guy that I saw was I think a random (and quite fierce) court watcher and wasn't a guest on the shows, I don't think.
R482 I bet you are right. And now in having killed him, she will be joined to him for life. I heard on a show years ago about obsessed murderers (like the Rebecca Shaffer guy) that one of their fondest hopes is to be joined for eternity with the object of their affection, even if it's name only and only because they killed them. I don't doubt that Jodi is the same way. She is always referred to as Travis' ex or his lover and I bet she loves that because she was really just an action figure to him.
God I hate Drew and all of this mockery on HLN. He has some fucking chick that she served as a waitress and lived near as some expert on her with the words: "Jodi's Neighbor Tells All!" scrolling. Meanwhile the chick barely knows her..
- [quote] What was it about the genius IQ? did the woman on the stand say she had it or did Jodi say it about herself?
Jodi said it (or at least wrote it) about herself. That's one the of things Juan got Ann B. to testify to today. She had it in her own notes that Jodi wrote that she was certain she had an IQ equivalent to Albert Einstein's.
I was listening to the interview with Jodi's parents and detective Flores. The detective mentioned that JA showed no remorse and was cold ( paraphrasing but you get the idea ) it also says something that the parents never dispute that she could be involved. Her mother asked if they were sure and the detective says they have plenty of evidence. I also find it interesting that Jodi is so smug and believes that she is on par with Einstein yet the detective mentions ( when interviewing her ) that there is more incriminating evidence in this case than any he has ever had.
- Yes, her mother didn't seem surprised and her father called her "a strange person". I think she figured she'd be ok evidence-wise because she had been in the house. When they told her they found hair, she said she lived there for a time. She did try to clean up, but she had blood from her own cuts that showed up. It's funny though about the IQ thing. She was a waitress. I don't believe she even finished high-school. So it's the insanity telling her she's special, not an actual intellectual gift. But she certainly believes it.
- If she has suggested her parents were neglectful or abusive in some way or were simply not the best of parents then they have a motive for whatever they say about her.
Is there anyone capable of any objectivity about this case? About any part of this case? Or is this just another Casey Anthony mob mentality on display?
- R489, why don't you go to the Jodi support site, and suck her ass over there?
- I don't understand what you mean by objective r489 unless you just mean people that think she is innocent in which case r490 is right, the JA is innocent site would be where you would want to go. When her parents were interviewed she had just been arrested and hadn't had time to spin her tales yet so they weren't reacting to what she had said.
- LaViolette has become a shrinking LaViolette.
She also looks like she's been hit by a freight train and her expressions of "oh shit, I don't have half of the info I need" are very telling. I'd bet not one person on the jury is buying the domestic violence spin and are ready for the expert witness get off the stand. The nature and amount of jury questions will be a good indicator.
The defense witnesses have been more of a detriment than beneficial. The Kurt and Jennifer's case is pretty much circling the drain at this point.
And if I'm correct, Juan M. gets the last word in closing arguments. The jury will start deliberations with his voice and statements fresh on their minds.
- By Michael Kiefer The Republic | azcentral.com Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:36 PM
For three days this week, a domestic-violence expert witness named Alyce LaViolette held her own against prosecutor Juan Martinez in the Jodi Arias murder trial in Maricopa County Superior Court.
But in cyberspace LaViolette was annihilated.
The Arias case is an international phenomenon, reduced to a parable of good and evil relayed in 140-character Twitter posts. Travis Alexander, the secret lover she killed in 2008, has become a cause célèbre. Arias has become a pariah, and everyone associated with her is considered evil by thousands in the social-media audience.
LaViolette took the stand March 26, hired by the defense to convince the jury that Arias was a victim of abuse from Alexander.
The tweets and other social-media posts began appearing the next week. “You can show your disgust with LaViolette,” they began, and they posted her office phone number and her website, and they suggested that people write negative reviews of her best-selling book on Amazon.com.
As of Tuesday, there were more than 500, panning the book and calling LaViolette a fraud and a disgrace.
People also were calling organizations that had booked her for speaking engagements, trying to persuade them to cancel her appearances.
And on a day when she and Martinez bickered over the meaning of stalking, someone obviously followed her to dinner and later posted photos of her dining with Arias’ defense attorney Jennifer Willmott and one of her legal staff. The photo, posted on at least two Facebook pages devoted to the trial, was accompanied by comments implying that somehow defense attorneys are not allowed to communicate with the experts they hire.
The barrage of online attacks was the subject of lengthy meetings in a judge’s chambers on Monday. It sent LaViolette to the emergency room last weekend.
Legal observers are not certain if it constitutes witness tampering, slander or just an expression of free speech.
“It’s the electronic version of a lynch mob,” retired Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Kenneth Fields said.
But it is probably a taste of the future.
Sree Sreenivasan, chief digital officer and professor of journalism at Columbia University, said he had never seen anything like the attacks on LaViolette.
“This is a logical extension of witness intimidation, taken to an extreme conclusion,” he said.
But he believes we will see it again.
“I imagine this is going to be standard operating procedure in prominent cases,” he said.
Jodi Arias, 32, admits killing Alexander, 30, but she claims she did so in self-defense. He was found in June 2008 in the shower of his Mesa home, with nearly 30 stab wounds, a bullet in the head and a slit throat.
The case evidence has played out in digital format, from steamy photos and an X-rated phone call recorded on a mobile phone to hundreds of text messages, instant messages, e-mails, MySpace pages and blog posts.
It has spawned a social-media subculture of followers who chronicle the trial on Twitter and Facebook, with pages that support Alexander or condemn Arias. Martinez has been raised to folk-hero status, frequently edited into photos with Alexander to make it look as if the two are standing arm in arm. Tweets fly every day during the trial, exchanging conspiracy theories, mostly praising Martinez and damning the Arias defense team.
The group following the case on social media has not been content to merely watch the trial. It has decided to take part.
LaViolette, 65, has worked as a counselor and psychotherapist for battered women since 1978. She has founded programs in domestic abuse, written books about the subject, given speeches at conferences and testified as an expert witness in trials.
During her testimony in the Arias trial, she described domestic abuse, and then walked the jury through why she felt that Arias had been controlled, manipulated and physically, sexually and emotionally abused by Alexander. Martinez has fought her bitterly, questioning her theories and her credentials, trying to make her crack and bumble as he had done to earlier witnesses. LaViolette, who spent a career counseling aggressive people, did not back down.
Since Martinez began cross-examining LaViolette late last week, the two have traded insults like boxers throwing kidney punches in the clinch. The slugfest was a stalemate, and trial watchers saw what they wanted to see: Martinez bobbing and weaving with rapid-fire questions that he demanded be answered by yes or no; LaViolette standing her ground and occasionally stinging Martinez with jabs like, “If you were in my group, Mr. Martinez, I would ask you to take a time out.”
The cybermob took up the Twitter suggestions to harass LaViolette.
“Shame on you Alyce!!! I hope Jodi gets the death penalty and you watch your career flush down the toilet,” a person named Carol wrote as a review to LaViolette’s book, “It Could Happen To Anyone: Why Battered Women Stay.”
They have attacked other parts of her career.
“I’ve been contacted by numerous people asking that she be removed from our speaker’s list,” said Rick Kenworthy of ABIP Training in Los Angeles, an organization that provides training for abuse counselors.
One of LaViolette’s friends, who asked not to be identified for fear of retribution, said that LaViolette was getting countless angry phone calls and e-mails at her office in Long Beach, Calif., at least one of which was serious enough that her colleagues contacted police.
The friend said that the stress of the harassment had driven LaViolette to the emergency room last weekend for anxiety attacks and palpitations.
Opinions differ on whether the treatment of LaViolette constitutes witness tampering and whether anything can or should be done to stop it. In Arizona it is a felony to tamper with or influence a witness.
“I think it’s an effort to dissuade the witness from testifying free of outside influence,” David Derickson, a former Superior Court judge who now practices law, said of the attacks on LaViolette.
But what can be done, especially if it’s coming from other states, even other countries?
Fields, the retired judge said, “If it’s just the general public and there’s no intention (by the prosecution), then there’s nothing to be done about it.”
Derickson also wondered if it constituted slander.
“They’re trying to destroy her reputation,” he said.
Fields thought one solution would be to turn off the TV cameras. “I think we’re going to have to revisit the policy of televised trials,” he said.
But David Bodney, a First Amendment attorney who represents The Arizona Republic, balked at that idea.
“I think it’s entirely unfair to blame camera coverage for a group of persons who are expressing their views,” he said. “The court has the authority to take steps to protect that witness from threats and other misconduct.”
- R493, thanks for posting that. I would add that the HLN commentators and their "experts" should be condemned as inciting certain elements.
- "Held her own" ... "Didn't back down.."
LOL Oh my sides.
- Thank you 493
Listening to the questions the jury is asking LaViolette, they don't seem to believe the Jodi is a domestic abuse victim. I tend to think if anyone was abusive it was Jodi
- The jury asked the Laviolette woman some question and she answered something about all her experience and how she has evaluated so many people to determine if abuse did occur. I would like the jury or the prosecutor to ask her if she has ever had a client she did not believe was abused. Did a lawyer ever hire her and did she ever think abuse didn't happen?
I'll bet that hasn't ever happened. I would bet money that she has always "determined" that every one of her clients has been abused
Statistically speaking, her clients can not all be abuse victims. And it bothers me that the prosecutor has let her give testimony about psychological matters about Travis and Jodi. He should object every time she tried to talk about Travis's past (childhood abuse, supposed psych problems) She is NOT a psychologist or a psychiatrist. She is considered a domestic violence expert only.
- r497 Don't sweat it, we will feel this soon.
- Do jurors usually get to ask witnesses questions?
Also, shouldn't this judge automatically know what question(s) can or can't be asked?
- r499 No, jurors don't normally ask questions, they only are now because it's a death penalty case.
- [quote] Is there anyone capable of any objectivity about this case? About any part of this case? Or is this just another Casey Anthony mob mentality on display?
Funny you would mention Casey Anthony. Jodi has actually made Casey not seem so bad. I had totally forgotten what a big fat liar Casey was. Because compared to what a GIANT liar Jodi is, Casey's only told a few white lies
Casey should send Jodi a bouquet of flowers and a thank you card
- Jurors in Arizona are allowed to ask questions at trials, death penalty or not.
- LaViolette has described herself as "old-fashioned." She admits that she doesn't really know about texting or social media. I'm not surprised she ended up in the emergency room for anxiety/panic/palpitations.
Her being "old-fashioned" and center stage in a trial with key elements such as sexting, Myspace, phone sex, pop rocks in the vagina is not the best fit for the Defense. Especially when trying to make a case for non-existent domestic abuse. She probably is quite good with patients who truly are in abusive relationships.
I'm not a fan of hers but I don't think it's right to try and sabotage her career, future speaking engagements, etc. Comments about her observations, approach, activity in this trial are all fair game. Sabotage and lynching are not.
- r503 no, she stuck up for Jodi and deserves what she gets. I'm sure she was pretty close to licking Brenda Klubine's pussy too. She is a fucking shill, she'll get what she gets.
- R504, wtf is wrong with you?
- r505 I'm sorry, I don't know what's wrong with me, I am very angry lately. Thanks for putting me in check.
- There was a Friday chuckle at the end of the court day when Judge Stephens was telling Ann B. Davis that even though her testimony is finished, she is still ordered to appear on Tuesday for a matter that she is aware of. Whatever that's about will be interesting to see.
Anyway, Ann B. starting talking to her about why she isn't sure she can make it in to court on Monday and what her reason is.
Judge Stephens shut her up by saying, "Ms. LaViolette, don't tell me about your personal issues."
- Fuck, this shit was supposed to be over by 4/11. I was excited to watch the trial at first but it's really gotten to be overkill. Alyce with a y has severely fucked herself.
- Yep, she did. When she first came up, I was worried the jury would like her because she's older and maybe they would sympathize with her if Juan went off. But she blew it by coming off as completely biased and a smart-ass. Telling him she'd put him in time-out was a BAD idea. I cannot watch the defense attorneys. I'd be crying if I were Jodi. She is truly fucked. I hope like hell she gets the death penalty. She just seems like the epitome of evil.
- Okay she has anti social personality disorder, as far as I know "epitome of evil" is not in the description.
Why not save epitome of evil for those people and institutions, governments, corporations that implement genocide, sow the seeds of hatred and war, poisoning the planet, and the like as business as usual operating procedure. Or those involved in the trafficking of children for sex which could include an institution like the Catholic church. See where I'm going?
Jodi is a blip on the screen compared to that kind of shit.
- Are you kidding r510? And it's people like you that let her get away with this, please remember that it takes evil cunts like her to make up all your evil corporations. You have to nip this shit in the bud but I guess you only worry about the big picture, the big picture couldn't be drawn without small people being let to get away with stuff.
- r510, No, I stand by what I said. She feels nothing. I'm sure your diagnosis is correct, but she's vacant. That to me is scary. There is no regret for what she's done. She could smile at you and slit your throat, and eat a sandwich afterwards.
PS. I agree with you though, the others are evil as well.
- Shrinking violet's testimony needs to be stricken from the record, she has been proven an out and out liar so many times. What is the "I misspoke" the cover for I told a lie in court? She said Jodi told her she shot Travis in the closet and swore under oath to that statement 2 times. Next day her testimony was she misspoke that wasn't what Jodi said. I want Arizona to broadcast Jodi's execution, like Texas did with Karla Fay Tucker. As far as Laviolette's problems, she brought them on herself and she deserves them and may they continue.
- Why is Shrinking LaViolette coming back to court next week? Is she in trouble or what?
I hope this thing wraps up before Memorial Day. If it doesn't, I'm worried about losing more jurors.
- Man r514, it should wrap up by next week. I hope.
- For a little bit of a clue to how much longer the judge thinks this is going to take...
Last week Judge Stephens asked the jurors to check their schedules for several Friday dates, the last of which being May 3rd. After she initially asked them to consider that date, she said keep it available but it might not be necessary. I took that to indicate that she feels the trial will be done by then or around then.
According to HLN, the defense has 1 more witness they plan to put up. Then the state can call rebuttal witnesses if he needs/wants to.
- r516 What a fucking joke this trial has been. But I guess it can be a gauge for us, as far as where were you when this travesty and waste of money went down?
- LaViolette wa also busted for lying in answer to a juror question. She was asked if she had ever testified FOR a man and she said yes. Martinez certainly does his research. She never testified and only prepared a statement that I'm not certain was even used. I'm a female and I just get the feeling she does not care for men at all.
510 if Jodi did this to someone you cared about you would probably think differently. By a certain age most of us have been in a bad relationship or two but who stabs someone in the back 29 times, shoots and slits his throat! She shows no remorse at all and has the nerve to say that he's a pedophile.
- I'll be LaViolette sets an all-time attendance record for her workshop at MichFest this summer.
- Travis Alexander called her a sociopath, accused her of stalking, and wrote that he was afraid of Arias. He ends up slaughtered to death.
LaViolette found none of this to be of consequence. Just unbelievable.
Was very happy to hear the jurors ask questions that I would have asked her.
- I do know someone that was murdered, though not in the traditional sense. My best friend's sister was murdered by Hamas terrorists in Israel in 2002. I imagine that the Hamas group got together with people like r510, because it's okay to murder on a small scale. Anyone that thinks it's ever acceptable to be of the Jodi inclination is a fucking apologist creep.
- [quote]Why is Shrinking LaViolette coming back to court next week? Is she in trouble or what?
Nobody seems to know r514, or at least nobody that I've caught talking about it on the news.
Maybe the defense (who take a stab at a motion for mistrial every other day) are going to try again for one on the basis that LaViolette was such an ineffective witness for them.
- Perhaps the reason LaViolette has been summoned back to court is due to the fact that she had contact with one of Travis Alexander's sister and told her something along of the lines of "sorry...it's not personal."
- Nah, not personal at all. Calling her brother a pedophile is just business. Freak.
- But it was personal r523. Of course Travis' sister was pissed, and I can't blame her. Alyce really screwed herself with this testimony, she might have thought it was all in a day's work to call someone a pedoplhile but it was personal and affected people.
- I bet you are right on with that, r523. That makes sense.
- R525, I agree and I'm not defending what LaViolette said. I was just speculating that is the reason why she was summoned back to court. As a defense witness, she is not supposed to have contact with the victim's family.
- r527 I am sorry if I came off like a bitch to you. Damn, I just hate Jodi and want to be done with her.
- No harm done, R525. I don't think any of us are Arias fans. I hope not.
- I saw on the news that over 20,000 people (idiots) are following Jodi on Twitter.
- Also r530 there is a website devoted to her and her "innocence." Stupid people. I can't even imagine having anyone in my life think she was a heroine in this saga. It makes me sad to think there are people out there who think that evil woman is a victim.
- R523, I heard that happened and couldn't believe Shrinking LaViolette would say something so inappropriate. Was she not coached beforehand by the Defense about things like this? I used the word "inappropriate" because it might be a CYA action by the judge to address it in some capacity for the inevitable appeal JA will make if convicted.
I'm guessing if it was a more serious infraction the Defense would have been all over it or maybe even Juan M. would have moved to dismiss her testimony.
- 518 you act like I said she was innocent or something.
Why can't people read?
I just don't categorize her as the epitome of evil.
See the difference?
If you do, then fine.
- Ok r533, fair enough. Would you date her? Would you let her housesit for you?
- I am thinking of the OJ Simpson bit that Howard Stern did after OJ said that he was a revered dad amongst his friends. OJ said they all loved him and had him watch their kids and help them with book reports. "Now, I'm gonna try and remain calm here, can anyone tell me any thing about the book?"
- Yes 510 I can read and I definitely understood what you said. I think the Alexander family would differ with your opinion of evil.
- There is nothing inappropriate per se with a defense witness talking to a family member. They can talk to whom ever they want except jurors, of course.
Now what was said could be inappropriate but what has been reported is certainly not inappropriate.
The family declined to speak with this expert in her research and her preparation for rendering her expert opinion and her testimony. It's understandable why a victim's family wouldn't want to seem to be cooperating with a defense witness. However it could actually have helped the prosecution because she would then have had to included their information in the formulation of her opinion. But that may have been too painful. But there is no proscription against a greeting or the kind of thing that has been reported.
Personally I've never been interested in communcating with the victim's family.
There is too much personal vitriol being hurled against this
defense team members and experts. They are doing their job and this campaign that the family and "Team Travis" have waged against them is unconscionable. It borders on obstruction and it has certainly been harassment. It's as if these trials have replaced day time soap operas where viewers used to get overly personally involved and lost all semblance of objectivity. There's no excuse for it.
It is most certainly a repeat of the Casey Anthony trial with an overabundance of "slut slamming" - a heightened form of misogyny as only females can practice on other females. I've even read people slut slamming this expert and another female defense team member. WTF?
If her claim of self defense is false then I see this as a typical romance gone wrong murder case. I suspect there was emotional abuse by him toward her coupled with a dismissive attitude. I'm not buying the stalker claims by Travis - I understand why the expert dismissed those claims by Travis. You do not continue to have a relatonship with your stalker including sex. No way.
This case should have been ended when Arias offered to plead guilty to Murder 2. It isn't death penalty worthy. This is more about the ego of a prosecutor than seeking justice.
And please let's don't have some idiot suggest I think Travis deserved death because he may have been controlling and abusive to some degree.
- No r537 it shouldn't have ended then. She would have taken a deal that maxed her at 22 years. You think Juan is the one who prosecuted her, but he wasn't. Travis' family wanted the case to go forward. I don't know anyone who hates her because she is a "slut", they hate her because she's a fucking psycho. I don't get why you don't see that.
- It isn't up to the family. And it should never be up to a victim's family. That is why we have a criminal justice system run by professionals who have to make professional, OBJECTIVE decisions about cases. Next.
I didn't say they hated her because she was a slut - I said they were slut slamming her and any female associated with the defense team.
22 years incarceration (with a potential for up to 25 years) seems an appropriate sentence for this kind of case. I'm sure that would equate with similar other homicides.
- I wonder if you are just here to fuck with us and play devil's advocate because there is no fucking way it would be fair for her to get out of prison when she is 55, not when he was dead for many years.
- And they aren't slut slamming any woman who is on the defense team. I have heard many things about Alyce with a y, but never have I heard her called a slut. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes a murderous wench is just that.
- I'm hoping she gets the death penalty. 23 hours a day in a cell, 1 hour for exercise. That's how they do it in CA, I don't know if AZ is different. But that's Arpaio's (sp) county right? America's toughest sheriff? She just seems so sure she's going to get off, it irritates me to no end.
- r537 = Jennifer "Gidget" Wilmott.
Hi Jen-Jen! Good luck, sweetheart! How long before Jodi turns against you?
- What's this special hearing going on today?? It looks precipitated by the Defense but I'm too nervous to watch if it's a mistrial!
- Jodie Arias is evil. Evil comes in differing degrees and this monster gutted TA like a trout. She showed no mercy. There is something so fundamentally wrong and evil with her. Death penalty or life behind bars with no parole is what she should get. I'd rather see her get life- no parole because if she gets death she will cost the state of Arizona even more money with appeals.
- Hitler, Eichmann, Mengele. . . Jodi Arias.
- Same song different day, huh R537. Donavan, Nurmi, Jennifer Wilmont, ALV...kindly go back to the Jodi is innocent site.
- On Websleuths, which is a forum of nutjobs that I love, someone blew up the last photo of Travis' face (at link) and claimed they saw the reflection of Jodi holding a knife in his eyeball. This was a couple of months ago and seemed completely nutso to me. Today, the defense tried to introduce this as evidence! With no jury present, Nurmi questioned some photography expert who said that you can see Jodi with both hands on the camera when this image is digitally enhanced. Meanwhile Juan said he saw a dog - "or someone might say they see a gopher, or a Mexican Chihuahua" bwahahahha.
- It seems like Nurmi gets every idea he has either from something he reads online or from whatever he watches on HLN at night while eating his XL Meat Lover's Stuffed Crust Pizza.
I wonder if he reads this thread too...
- Oh - evidently there was a compromise between the defense and prosecution. The jury heard a stipulation that Jodi wasn't holding a gun or a knife when the photo of Travis' face was taken. Also the defense has rested so I'm not sure what is going down tomorrow. Hallelujuah!
- So 537 you believe that we are going overboard in our belief that Jodi deserves ( at the very least ) life in prison? Yet you think this person that butchered another human only deserves a second degree sentence . Unbelivable! Did you get lost on your way to the "Jodi Is Innoncent " site? I personally believe that most of us think that this could happen to us or someone we know ( everyone is great when you first meet ) and an innocent person was butchered. He was no saint but he definitely did not deserve to die because he wax no longer interested in JA.
- I wonder if Jodi has a girlfriend in jail?
- [quote] If her claim of self defense is false then I see this as a typical romance gone wrong murder case. I suspect there was emotional abuse by him toward her coupled with a dismissive attitude. I'm not buying the stalker claims by Travis - I understand why the expert dismissed those claims by Travis. You do not continue to have a relatonship with your stalker including sex. No way.
Don't take this the wrong way, but straight men are stupid. Especially younger men. They will have sex with a crazy girlfriend who is/was stalking them. Then they will complain that the woman is still bothering them - not taking into account or accepting responsibility that having sex with a crazy ex is just encouraging that crazy ex
- R522 No girlfriend, according to her tweets.
- Prosecution rebuttal witness is a psychologist who administered tests to Jodie Arias. She is coming off very steady, precise and knowledgable. Arias' attorney is objecting on every other question, so ya know she's worried.
She administered a personality test that showed that Arias has bouts of aggression and anger that you would not see everyday.
The testimony is very interesting as opposed to Laviolette's time on the witness stand.
- I agree r555. The Defense is being handed Jodi's ass, gaping-wide anus and all.
- 551 Take. Your. Meds.
- Prosection Psychologist just said that Arias tested out as having "borderline personality disorder."
BTW, she was given an IQ test and scored as above average.
- Arias is sitting at the defense table and furiously writing notes, it appears almost fake as to avoid looking up at the psychologist.
She looks to a notebook on her right and then writes something down in front of her on a pad and then continually repeats this.
Much different than the puppy-dog tearful eyes that stared at Laviolette.
- This expert for the Prosecution is hitting a home run. Credible, articulate, and reasonable diagnosis. She has nailed JA's Borderline Personality Disorder.
Jodi has not looked up at all today. No cockiness or smirks. Although she has the appearance of note taking, she is probably embarrassed and feels exposed that someone has finally sat in the witness chair and identified her true character.
- The courtroom camera definitely lingers on Jodi for long periods today.
It just drives home the point that she isn't paying any attention (or wants to give the impression that she isn't) to what this witness is saying. Jodi looks like she's furiously trying to finish up a homework assignment so she can hand her paper in on time.
It makes me wonder what she would have done if she actually had been allowed to represent herself in the case as she requested at some point. Of course that wouldn't be allowed for a charge of this magnitude, but if it had been, would she still think it's wise to be giving the impression that she's completely ignoring a prosecution witness? Nope likely.
- Jodi never fails to amaze. I cannot imagine what she hopes to gain by her apparent nonchalance today. I'm sure her lawyers have had and are having a very difficult time keeping her under some sort of control.
- Maybe it's just me but does anyone else see similar physical characteristics between today's Defense witness and Jodi Arias?
It might just be a lucky coincidence for Juan Martinez...an expert witness who resembles Jodi A. but appears to be everything Jodi is not: stable,educated, knowledgeable, credible.
- 557 take your meds
- And r557 go return to the Jodi Is Innoncent site.
- I noticed it, too R563. Their faces are similar.
- Now Wilmot is cross examining the witness and Arias is no longer writing. She is now paying attention. Wilmot is trying to shake the witness as best she can. This should be good.
- I was watching the live feed earlier when Jennifer Willmott was doing her cross examining of the Defense witness.
It's an awful attempt at playing "bad cop" and she can't pull it off with the vigor like Juan Martinez. I know she has to do it but it's not very convincing. She and Nurmi are probably counting the minutes until they can say goodbye to this circus of a trial and its freakish main attraction.
- I think the witness appears a little defensive and less likeable on cross.
- I heard them say the same thing on tv, that the psychologist for the prosecutor wasn't coming off well under cross. I thought she did fine. The lawyer however sucks. She's trying to trip her up, and she can't. She seems honest and no nonsense.
- Jodi was pretending to be uninterested in anything Dr. DeMarte was saying. Jodi's immaturity and aloofness was on clear display. But you know she was seething with anger and rage on the inside.
Jennifer Willmott looked like a fool during her cross-exam. She was trying to emulate Juan Martinez, but she failed miserably.
- She also had some facts wrong and that tripped her up too r571. For example she wasn't aware that AZ changed the requirements recently of becoming a Psychologist so she wasn't able to pull one of the trip-ups she had planned.
- Poor Jennifer. Dead end after dead end after...
Love how the witness stays composed, consistently says "correct" or "incorrect" as appropriate, when something isn't quite right from Jennifer W. she suggests she check her notes, etc...
JW is actually hurting the Defense right now. And there was already no margin of error left.
- [quote]Jodi was pretending to be uninterested in anything Dr. DeMarte was saying. Jodi's immaturity and aloofness was on clear display.
yeah r571, she might just as well have put her hands over her years and mumbled "Lalalalala, I don't hear you, lalalalalala!"
She was paying much better attention when Wilmott started yesterday afternoon and this morning. But right now she's back to doing her homework because the zingers that Wilmott is trying to sting DeMarte with are falling dead flat. And the courtroom camera is showing a split screen so we can see that Jodi is back to giving the impression that she's not paying attention.
Perhaps Jodi is drafting questions for Wilmott so that after lunch she'll make an impact. I'm certain that she tries to shape her own defense in that way - and since she feels she's of a superior intellect, I'll bet she advises her attorneys that she knows the best way to proceed.
- r573 - I can't listen to the trial today. Can you give a good recap of what is going on? I mean, what you said is good news, but what types of things are being asked?
- Jodi appeared to be drawing this afternoon--bold, long marks on the paper. Trial is now recessed, apparently due to Joid's migraine.
- I wonder what the jurors are thinking when Jodi starts this scribbling and writing frenzy. Even Casey Anthony never did anything like that.
Doesn't come across well.
- R573. It pains me to say this but I'm watching Nancy Grace. Nancy had Lenore Walker on the phone, and Lenore said that she still uses her 6 symptom critera for battered women syndrome. Wilmott flat out lied in court. At least Demarte didn't fall for it. I think Demarte responded with doubt and disbelieve.
- Jennifer Willmot is such a bitch. And yesterday she supposedly called the witness a 'bitch' under her breath.
- I loved this
- Jodi was so jealous of the sexy shrink.
I'm really getting bored with the trial, and am super worried we are going far into the month of May.
The jury may start dropping like bodies.
- Can someone provide a link to a source that shows the trial in real time, uncensored format?
I usually listen through CNN Live TV source but for some reason they are not showing it today.
- I swear jodi just flipped off the friend of Travis' who was just testifying, while crying at the same time
- Has already been done on this thread, r582. Try the link at r439. It still works.
- Well once again Nurmi gets to bring up the internet history showing that Travis watched that Daft Punk parody video.
As when he had the previous computer forensic folks mention it once before, I think he's hoping that just seeing the title of the track (Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger) will make the jury think that it's pornographic because that's as close to anything salacious as he can find in the internet history.
They should just play the video in court to show what is really is. Oh, I spoke too soon. Juan is asking for a little detail to let everyone know that the video contains no nudity.
- This trial may be wrapping up in the next week or so. on Headline News they just said that the prosecution has three more witnesses (they went through two today) and the defense may call one more for the sur-rubuttal. The defense is tring to block the remaining three witnesses though and also, they want the jury to consider voluntary manslaughter in a motion filed today.
- [quote]on Headline News they just said that the prosecution has three more witnesses (they went through two today) and the defense may call one more for the sur-rubuttal.
I didn't see all of the proceedings today, but I counted at least 5 witnesses that Juan called. He's plowing through them, even when Nurmi gets up and talks so slowly that he sounds learning disabled.
1. Travis' ex-girlfriend from 2005ish. (Deanna?)
2. Old guy friend that had the video of jodi in travis' lap while he told that story about being held at gunpoint.
3. IT manager from the gas station company
4. Walmart chick that testified to no gas returns during the week that Jodi said she bought and returned can #3.
5. Computer forensic dude testifying to no porn on any of Travis' computers.
Not necessarily in that order, but those are the ones I remember.
- Nurmi is like human Ambien.
- Am I the only one who doesn't like that Katie chick on Dr Drew's show?
She is so fucking annoying.
- Dr. Drew's juror Katie (or whatever he calls her)? I think she's cute, but I don't think her comments ever add much to the discussion.
I like Dr. Cheryl Arutt.
And of course I want to have my way with Mark Eiglarsh...after Drew is finished with him, of course. He seems to have a man crush on Mark.
- Thanks r587 for clarification. I only caught HLN which only mentioned the two witnesses. I stand corrected.
- The finish line is in sight!
The judge just told the jury that she expects closing arguments next thurs and fri and that Friday, May 3rd will be their last day of court - the case will be turned over to them to begin deliberations after that.
Sounds like no court Mon or Tues (because the last witness can't be there until then) and they will start early and go until they are finished that day - which she said might be after 5pm.
- Is the last witness the one for the Defense's sur-rebuttal? I hear that they want to bring in a Doctor to rebut the Prosecution's Doctor from last week.
- JA isn't smirking so much today! Quite the opposite.
Now that the judge has laid out the timeline for the remaining trial days and the Prosecutor witnesses are presenting technical and logistical data/facts that are difficult to dispute, her reality is setting in.
- I have a question about jury deliberations.
Once the case is handed over to them, are they expected to stay gathered together and take their votes (or whatever they do) until they have a decision (or determine they will remain at a stalemate/hung jury)?
Specifically what I mean is, if they are given the case some time next Friday afternoon, are they expected to come to court on Saturday and on Sunday and every day until they finally have a decision?
They can still go home at night, right?
I know that sometimes verdicts come in on weekends, but I don't know if that's always the case - which is why I ask.
- They will not deliberate over the weekend as there is no security at the court house.
In my jursidiction, the jury is not permitted to separate after it has begun deliberations, meaning they go to a hotel in the evenings. However, many jursidictions have death penalty juries sequestered from the beginning of the trial and obviously they don't in Arizona. Therefore, I don't know if they will be sequestered once they begin deliberations.
- Will someone start a new thread, please and thanks. Oh, and keep the quacking part in the tile :)
- I'll the second the request to to R597.
It would be very nice and most appreciated if someone would start a thread similar in title, Pt. 3, and consider replacing the word "fetish" with the name "Juan Martinez." He has definitely earned a spot in the thread title.
- Would anyone who can start a thread please help?
Here's a cut and paste option to modify or use:
Travis Alexander/Nancy Grace/Jane Velez Pt. 3. Quacking and Juan Martinez and Mormons and outrage.
BIG THANKS to anyone who can help!
- OP: your thread is full!!! Congrats!
Can we get a pt. 3 ??