- That is a different Night Stalker than the more infamous one that came a few years later. I still get freaked out about Richard Ramirez. He killed one of our neighbors when I was a kid. Scared the shit out of me.
- Oh yes, I should have clarified that this guy, EAR/GSK, got his start and was prolific even before Ramirez. That is why he is known as the Original night stalker.
Here is a piece of paper that was found at one of the scenes where the killer escaped. It is not on the new info site and difficult to find but I think it is very significant in catching the guy.
- I've just started to read the article. He's the "original" Night Stalker, not RR who's been in jail for a long time. They're calling him "original" because his crimes pre-date Ramirez's known murders.
- Also, he moved down to the the Goleta-Irvine-Santa Barabara area around 1979 where he committed his last known crimes in 1986.
And of course, as mentioned in the info dump, he is strongly believed to be the Visalia Ransacker and murderer of the Snellings in that area in 74 and 75.
- It's giving me the chills reading the article. I must say, he had some nice penmanship though.
Serial killers scare me but also fascinate me. My aunt is married to the first cousin of the BTK Killer.
- I'm just reading the first page and there are details I didn't know about. (I was in H.S. when this was happening) He cased the homes and left markings around them (gouged screens) and crank called/hang up called the victims prior to the attacks. When a guy at a community meeting asked why men couldn't protect their wives, he and his wife became the next victims.
Shit. I'm so glad I didn't know this stuff.
- Oh shit. Here is his voice!
- I do remember this particular tactic:
[quote]The aftermath of a Golden State Killer attack. Note the plates on the bed. One of his most twisted techniques was to stack dishes on top of a bound male victim’s back, telling him that if he heard the dishes fall, he’d kill the female, whom he would then lead into another room to rape.
- OP, how old were you at the time?
- I was 14 when they started. And, yes, I'm a woman.
- Did they catch him? I was reading the article and I went to page 6.
BTW, R7, that is one of thee must spine-chilling tapes to listen to!
I'm not trying to divert the subject, but I thought I should share this with you. I mentioned this once before on DL. My sister just moved into this studio ground level apartment, which had sliding doors that lead out to a public park. My parents were pissed off because they said that apartment was totally unsafe especially for a single girl. Even the hallway leading to her apartment was extremely secluded, and it was another opening to the public park. However, it didn’t bother my sister because she was pretty tough. My sister worked nights and she got off work around 1AM and drove to her open car port when she noticed a man wearing a ski mask was stooping behind one of the tent’s cars in. She immediately put her car in reverse, and sped out of there fast! She drove directly to the police station and told them what she had seen. The police laughed at her and didn't believe her. She waited a while and drove back home and the guy was gone. BUT! when she woke up the next day, she went to her car, and her car window was busted in thousands of little pieces, and it was only her car window that was busted up. So he was still around the apartment complex when she came back that night. It turns out that the Night Stalker was around that vicinity at the time, and without a doubt it was him. My sister moved out of the building right after that. Also, my sister's apartment building was located adjacent to the freeway, and the Night Stalker drove up and down the freeway. From southern to northern California and back again.
- No r11, he's never been caught, but the FBI believes he is most likely still alive.
- I had no idea that this case from my youth had inspired so many online sleuths. I'm not sure what they're going to piece together. I kind of wonder if this is an effort to try to smoke him out. Of course, some smart aleck my try to troll their boards.
The only thing that's going help is if he starts to prowl and break in again or he starts communicating with authorities and slips up like BTK did.
- I'm sorry to be off topic r13 but your post reminded me and I wanted to ask a quick question speaking of fb detectives. Did anyone see the 48 hours mystery about Lisa Stone's disappearance? I think it was called the Facebook Detectives. She was a Dallas lesbian who was living with her gf and had an inheritance but went missing and her friends started to follow the gf and saw them dump her birth certificate and other things in a dumpster, she probably killed the woman. I thought it was awesome the friends were looking when the cops weren't and wonder if anyone else saw it. Sorry again about being ot, jsut was curious if anyone else saw it.
- The editor of LA mag tweeted that the author of the new EARONS/GSK story, Michelle McNamara, is doing a Reddit AMA about this case tomorrow morning at 11 am PST.
- Do you have to register for Reddit or can you just follow along?
- If you want to ask a question, I think you have to register. But if you just want to read along though, you can do that without registration. (I don't have a Reddit account; I always just follow along.)
- Is it possible if they can get any DNA off of any evidence? I have heard of some cold cases and they had a tiny bit of DNA on some evidence and they were able to still examine it and use it.
- Yes R14 I saw it. Iirc, the Facebook women weren't even close friends with the victim initially. They were acquaintances in high school and only got closer through Facebook.
- Thank you r19. I feel bad for her and hate her smarmy gf. Hope they find her soon.
- Bump for the AM crowd.
- How do you use Reddit? All I see is a list of announcements of people who think they are interesting (I work at Dairy Queen? After 30 years I finally self-publiched my novel? etc.)
McNamara is on at 2pm on the east coast.
- When her AMA thread appears, click on it and it will expand into a more usual forum-type thread.
On the ear-ons.com web page, they have a drawing of a decal seen on a suspicious vehicle near one of the attacks in 1977. Anyone recognize it?
- Thank you, R23. Excuse my misspelling.
- If he's still alive, I wonder what made him stop?
- Maybe he got injured? He was very athletic, scaling and jumping fences, running and bicycling during his crimes. If he'd gotten hurt, that would surely make him have to change up his game plan.
Or maybe he decided to change his MO again. This guy wasn't married to his method. As soon as the cops started to link his crimes together, he would change up - go from ransacking and burglary to rape to murder, from single women to couples, etc.
- The Reddit AMA is in session.
- The mention of the man standing up at the meeting to speak and then later being a victim is very intriguing but I don't see any further mention of it. Obviously this is important because the killer had to find out who this guy is, right?
- My brother had a doctors appt back around 1979-80, and the nurse called that morning to let us know that the doctor and his girlfriend had been murdered the night before - it was one of the GSK cases.
- I had to miss the session. I'll read over it later.
R28 - I can only assume that he attended the community meeting to hear what was being said about him and revel in in his new-found glory. He probably followed him home after the meeting. How frightening.
I just realized that I gave the wrong age when this was happening. I was 11 when it started 14 when he moved on. No wonder I don't remember some of the details. I can't imagine that I was reading about crime in the paper that young.
- r28 I wondered the same thing. Did that literally happen? that's some weird shit. Like maybe the guy had a friend on the neighborhood watch (the friend of course not knowing about him) and the friend said, "Oh that Chuck was a real dick tonight, he called all the husbands of the victims pussies." and the killer was like, I will show him..
- I think the Reddit is still ongoing. She just answered a question 15 minutes ago.
It read to me like the killer was AT the meeting and saw the guy speak up.
- Fuck! r32, That is freaky.
- I'm a true crime buff. I like this case but I find the Zodiac Killer much more interesting. The one thing interesting about the Zodiac Killer is there is a list of about four suspects. You read the evidence against each one of them and think they're guilty.
- Don't forget Mitt ROmney
- This case is far more solvable than Zodiac, though. I don't disagree that Zodiac is a gripping case, but this guy was far more prolific and therefore left many more clues that make him catchable now.
r33 Isn't it? I realize that it's just possibility that GSK was at that meeting, but I just think it's more than a coincidence that the very same guy who - basically - boasted that these other guys were pussies and that HE would be a hero then ended up a victim. Essentially the GSK was like, Oh yeah? I'll show you how powerful I am.
- Of course he attended the meeting. The meeting occurred in an affected neighborhood. He probably needed to see how he was affecting the community so he could revel in his new found notoriety. It was all about feeling powerful and he really did exert tremendous influence over the city. People were terrorized. The satisfaction wasn't just torturing the victims.
The guy who stood up unwittingly issued a challenge to his manhood (which seems to be at the core of his issues as he was described as having difficulty maintaining an erection) and GSK was more than happy to rise to the occasion. He probably followed him home and cased the place for a while.
I was wondering if the police were in plain clothes presence at the meeting. I'm not sure what police procedures were like at the time, but now you can be sure that the police would be there photographing attendees, taking down license plate numbers and the like.
- It's a little bit titillatory of us to "enjoy" true crime cases, r34, but if you're a buff you might want to read The Monster of Florence written mainly by an American, Douglas Preston, about a spate of murders in the region of Florence, Italy from the 1960s to 1980s. It's brilliantly written.
- Maybe it is r38 but if it's wrong, I don't want to be right. Some people like porn, I like serial killers and true crime. I am glad there are a lot of true crime threads here, it beats the hell out of Harry Styles crap.
- some of you are getting a little too close
- [quote]Personally I feel as if the theory of the offender having some kind of involvement with law enforcement or the military as having the highest likelihood of being the actual outcome. Many attacks were located in area’s with military installations in nearby suburbs which would provide an offender with a safe haven to escape into.
That was my gut feeling too.
Is it realistic that, in the 70s, a person would be as evidence conscious as GSK was unless he was closely familiar with law enforcement? Today it would be no surprise to have a serial criminal be so smart and hip to investigators' SOP due to the internet and the total saturation of crime/forensic entertainment in pop culture. Also, in reading over some of the case information it did strike me that people/LE would probably be looking for someone they didn't know, a strange, some "Other" who they'd never seen before, who wasn't part of their community. But wouldn't it be really easy for someone who was known by many in his community, respected even, to escape suspicion just by virtue of BELONGING to the community? "Oh him? He's Jimmy's boy, I know him. No, the guy we're looking for is...."
And frankly, the military and police force ATTRACT more psychopaths than they create so either would be a haven for GSK.
- Good points, r41.
I believe this is one of the reasons that some famous cases, particularly the Zodiac and Ripper murders (not to mention Biggie & Tupac more recently) have gone unsolved.
Viable lines of investigation and suspects in all three cases have led to LEOs or relatives, plus the military angle in the Zodiac case.
- I, too, found this case morbidly fascinating UNTIL I read the killer had tinymeat. NEXT!
- As opposed to the Zodiac killer one thing I'm certain of is that someone knows who the GSK is. There were to many composite sketches, exact details about his eyes, the phone call, the belt buckle, the bike, the micropenis, and a lot of other things. Someone knows who it is..
- The emblem that R23 posted, the movement of the crimes from the Sacramento area to S. Cal, and the cessation of activity altogether makes me think that he was Air Force personnel of some sort. He was transferred down south were there are/were a number of AFBs located within easy driving distance of the S. Cal crime sites. And then he was discharged and returned to where ever he came from. Maybe he changed his MO when he was back home or decided to cease activity when DNA became readily available.
Sacramento used to a huge Air Force hub in the '70s. In addition to Mather AFB, McClellan, which has since closed, was located in Rancho Cordova where the rapes began. At R40's link, the assailant was described as having "neatly kept" blonde hair, which certainly wasn't the norm among civilian men in the '70s. Any enlisted man would have to be reasonably physically fit to be able to do the jumping and scaling required to do the prowling.
Brian and Katie Maggiore's murders in '78 were curious and not linked to the EAR until later. He and his wife were walking their dog in Rancho Cordova when the came across him. Nobody knows what transpired, but the couple was chased down into a back yard and shot dead. This is before the rapes commenced.
Nobody knows what prompted this. Brian was a Sgt. in the USAF. My theory is that Brian recognized somebody from work in the middle of suspicious activity, confronted him and the EAR pulled out a gun and took chase. Remember that he killed when threatened.
It couldn't be so hard to cross reference lists of transfers and discharges with the timeline to see if any individuals were stationed to the areas and discharged around the time the crimes stopped.
- I forgot to mention that Del Dayo Elementary school, where the community meeting took place, is located in the Arden-Arcade neighborhood which is close to where McClellan AFB was located. My writing got garbled upthread. Mather AFB is in Rancho Cordova and is still open.
- R39 I'm a big fan of true crime and read a lot of the books. Not to derail the thread(again) I'd like to recommend one of the best true crime books I've ever read. Perfect Poison. It's about one of the most prolific serial killers of our time. Kristen Gilbert,a nurse in MASS. How this did not receive that much attention I'll never know. It's even hard to find internet stuff on her. What makes it even sadder is her helpless victims and why she did it.
One of the best written books and case studies about a psychopath ever written.
Back to the GSK.
Sorry for the interruption.
- R45 your theory is intriguing and reasonable.
- I read that book r47. It was good. Her and her kooky bf killing people to go have sex..Sorry, back to the thread.
- I thought I read that the GSK was in an area for 10 years. No one in the military stays stationed in the same area for 10 years.
But I think the notion that the AF sgt or maybe the wife may have recognized the guy is a strong suspicion for why he took after them. Could have recognized him from anywhere though - gas station worker, civilian employee on base, etc. Otherwise it doesn't make sense he'd go after them unless as the article suggested the husband saw him peeping or something when he had no disguise on and decided to get involved and approached the guy.
Military men (and now military women) have the kind of confidence it takes to insert themselves into a dangerous situation. They also may feel in better shape to take someone on - even if they're not and it may be unwise to get involved personally.
I'm a military brat and I watched my dad step in more than once to assist in a dangerous situation. He just took charge as he was trained to do.
- My cousin used to be dispatcher and her husband use to be a deputy. They are both retired now. They said most murderers, murder within the vicinity where they live.
- [quote]No one in the military stays stationed in the same area for 10 years.
That's true. But civlian employees of the military often stay in the same area for that many years. A neighbor recently retired from 20 civilian years with the Dept. of the Navy.
- R30, LOL! I started reading about real crime when I was about that age - 10 or 11. It made me want to become a criminal attorney.
[quote] The mention of the man standing up at the meeting to speak and then later being a victim is very intriguing but I don't see any further mention of it. Obviously this is important because the killer had to find out who this guy is, right?
General police work would have involved taking license plates as well as surveillance of the meeting. They may have decided to have the meeting purposefully to lure him out. They had some kind of personality profile by then to suggest working tactics.
But if they had been able to check with the Datalounge Detective Agency we would have advised them to use decoys as the guy who stood at the neetingup to ask the questions and had a female cop (Sgt. Pepper Anderson) to act as the wife. They would have set that sucker up but good. And instead we'd be discussing why he is still on death row after 35 years.
With all the DNA he must have left behind they still haven't found a match.
- There are actually forensic specialists now who use info on killing locations to plot maps that can lead to serial killers.
They are trying to get the techniques to the point were they can predict future murder locations, even if they don't know the killer(s).
This is also done for locating bodies.
I don't know how effective it really is. A lot of CSI techniques are not the slam dunks the public is lead to believe (including DNA).
- He was in Sacramento from '76-'79, roughly. The S. Cal attacks occurred in '79-'81. There was another in '86. They were separated geographically and by time for the most part so it could fit with a transfer.
[quote]Military men (and now military women) have the kind of confidence it takes to insert themselves into a dangerous situation. They also may feel in better shape to take someone on - even if they're not and it may be unwise to get involved personally.
You could also be describing a perpetrator.
- This link lists the locations of the ransacking crimes in Visalia (at the bottom is a link to a timeline for the rapes and murders). On the Reddit, McNamara said:
[quote]He was in Sacramento when he said that (something about his mother). Interestingly though, someone pointed out that he said to one rape victim in Sacramento that news reports of the rapes "scared my Mommy," and that was shortly after a big article about the rapes in Sacramento had been published in a Central Valley paper (Visalia is in the Central Valley). I put Visalia up there with Goleta/Santa Barbara as a probable place of origin.
- [quote] There are actually forensic specialists now who use info on killing locations to plot maps that can lead to serial killers.
This is what happen in this great 3 part program called The Bletchley Circle. It's about 4 women who worked at Bletchley Park during WWII as code breakers. The story takes place in 1952 when the main character is a sweet, docile and bored housewife with a husband who thinks she is simpler than she is and that her penchant for word games and puzzles is just cute. Of course he has no idea.
"In 1952, four women who worked at the wartime code-breaking center, Bletchley Park, reunite to track down a serial killer."
It's good. I watched it on youtube.
- R56, he could have actually been talking to/about the victim in the third person calling her mommy.
I wonder if they played his taped voice recordings for the public. Someone might have recognized his voice.
- This thread is fascinating! Its threads like these that make DL interesting.
- r56 that could be so, but in the context he used the phrases, I just don't think so. I think he most likely was talking about his real mother. Who you just KNOW was a piece of work, herself.
[quote] On the ear-ons.com web page, they have a drawing of a decal seen on a suspicious vehicle near one of the attacks in 1977. Anyone recognize it? [see offsite photo on www.ear-ons.com]
I found this
AFC Harrogate is the [British] Army's foundation College, it trains certain trades at it. Infantry being one. For infantry Juniors it is their phase one training afterwards they will go to Catterick and Complete a shortened version of the CIC Combat Infantrymans Course. Three things happen at Harrogate, Military training, Leadership skills and education. The qualifications that you learn ar in line for what trade you are going into, eg: if you are going to be a VM you will do level 1 foundation module in being a mechanic.
They also train for the parachute devision. Thought that division uses a similar looking parachute as in the drawing - there is no missile.
The link is the Facebook page for The Parachute Regiment, a Regiment of the British Army.
- Okay, R60. We're talking about the GSK not you.
I keed keed
- I've seen the parachute symbol on many military patches and stickers in numerous nations. You'll find it in the U.S. in the Army and Air Force.
- Can someone start a new Jodi Arias' quacking twat thread? I know my fellow murder junkies will want in. TIA.
- I wasn't a military brat so I don't know but how easy is it to get off and on base without anyone noticing or it being documented somewhere? Especially if you were returning after a night's killing and raping.
- Bomp, bomp
Bubble, lubba, lubba, lipton
Bubble till you feel the beat
Bubble, lubba, lubba, lipton
Joy till reach defeat
Bubble, lubba, lubba, lippton
Bubble till you have no doubt
Bubble, lubba, lubba, lipton
Joy's what it's all about
Bubble, lubba, lubba, lipton
Bubble till you're on your feet
Bubble, lubba, lubba, lipton
A simulated Holland treat
- The investigation indicants that the victims were tied in a diamond knot around their wrists which was a Chinese rope? Is this something that is learned in the military?
- BTW, I looked that the pictures of the location of the crimes ,and the homes are your typical California neighborhoods, which the homes are close together. How in the world only in a few cases neighbors heard fragments of things here and there? My dad lives in a home similar to these and his neighbor had a prowler in her back yard and she screamed for help. My dad and his wife were a sleep when they heard the call for help. Rather than the prowler running away from the scene, he went to my father's back door and was trying to break into the house. He gave up after after a short time and left quickly.
- [quote]As opposed to the Zodiac killer one thing I'm certain of is that someone knows who the GSK is. There were to many composite sketches, exact details about his eyes, the phone call, the belt buckle, the bike, the micropenis, and a lot of other things. Someone knows who it is..
I agree with this 100% r44
I wonder if taunting him about his tinymeat will help lure him out to try and prove himself again?
- Here are some posts from the AE tv board brainstorming about the decal:
The El Camino with the decal was observed at two different EAR crime scenes in Sacramento. It was also observed on a vehicle that gained illegal access to a so cal military base and surfaced in another jurisdiction's notes. It's the little details, especially those that cross jurisdictions, that should perk up the radar. Hence the interest. He may have worked for a car rental agency or a mechanic's garage where a myriad of vehicles would be accessible. Let's also recall that he took one victim's car from the crime scene and parked it at an apartment complex miles away.
"Ave. vs vehicle CORRECTION..Hi Port,I apologize, I was wrong stating it was on El Camino Ave. The story behind the decal is that an El Camino was seen on the Levy near the time of an attack nearby with that decal. At another time an El Camino with a nearly identical description on the decal was seen. Although the vehicles were different colors, the second one was seen at North Island, near Coronado by a miltary personnel. Sorry for any inconvenience this may of caused anyone. g"
A guard at Coronado NAS requested ID from the driver of the vehicle with the decal. The driver gave the name of an active serviceman and provided his ID or SSN number. The guard also asked the driver about the decal pictured above. The driver said it was from North Island NAS. When the guard investigated further it turned out the name and ID provided actually belonged to an active duty serviceman who happened to be black. the vehicle driver was white. So why did he want to gain illegal access to the base and where did this decal originate that was also seen in Sacramento?
Well you might want to check Coronado NAB too. I have spent time at both places and there are a lot of various military members that have access to those bases. Man those are such small bases!
- "There were to many composite sketches, exact details about his eyes, the phone call, the belt buckle, the bike, the micropenis, and a lot of other things. Someone knows who it is.."
Composite sketches aren't always totally accurate. And it's not like having a small penis is a unique characteristic.
- White male, born circa 1955, blue eyes, dirty blonde hair, 5'8-5'11, 140-180 lbs in 1977, slightly high pitched voice, size 9 shoe, small penis but able to ejaculate, type A blood, had a male 6th grade teacher in his last year of elementary school, may have driven a VW, extensive background and knowledge of Visalia-Central Valley county area, as well as east Sacramento and Goleta-Orange co. areas.
- Here is a link to a free PDF download of the Sudden Terror book by Larry Crompton that McNamara cites in her article.
The OP will probably be most interested.
- Thanks, R73! Definitely downloading for some late night reading.
- [quote]There are actually forensic specialists now who use info on killing locations to plot maps that can lead to serial killers.
[quote]They are trying to get the techniques to the point were they can predict future murder locations, even if they don't know the killer(s).
I believe this is called geo-profiling.
- Does anyone else find the A&E cold case board very difficult to navigate/full of technical bugs?
- Yes, r76. I can't even create an account there.
- In the McNamarra article in LA Magazine she mentions that DNA tests have proved that the EAR and the ONS are the same person. That should mean it wouldn't be too difficult to catch this guy if he's in the system somewhere. Anyone know anything else about such possible developments?
- [quote] That should mean it wouldn't be too difficult to catch this guy if he's in the system somewhere.
I wondered about his, too. Apparently, checking against DNA in the system isn't as easy as I thought it was. From R40's link:
[quote]Despite a crusade lead by Detective’s Larry Pool and Larry Crompton to bring closure to this case through continued DNA testing and measures to maintain levels of awareness about this case, there has never been another assault linked conclusively to the same perpetrator.
[quote]Detective Pool has spent much of his time testing the DNA of many California prisoners in an attempt to unmask the phantom suspect. However those efforts are so far yet to provide the answers sought.
It sounds like the checking is piecemeal. I also read another bit about how his DNA could be in other state's prison database and checking against them is not yet possible. (or at least easily possible) I guess forensics aren't as advanced I as I thought. Either that or the money isn't available to apply the technology properly and coordinate.
- Here is a much larger version of the notebook page with his whine about his 6th grade teacher.
- One of the rape victms said his penis was so small he slipped it into her anus and it didn't hurt at all.
per an excerpt on Amazon from "Sudden Terror"
by one of the detectives
- Just now spending time on the EAR/ONS website. The guy really rose to challenges and liked to make a point:
[quote]The increased Sheriff patrols and the CBer EARS patrols had an affect. On 5/28/77, the East Area Rapist struck again for the 24th time. This time he attacked a couple for the first time in the South Area of Sacramento. It was as if he was making a point: you can't stop me. And if that point was not clear enough,[bold] his victim lived several blocks from the office of the dentist who put up the additional $10,000 and organized the EARS patrol.[/bold]
Which makes me wonder if this new publicity push is designed to provoke him somehow.
The note about the 6th grade teacher cracked me up. The guy can develop a resentment over [italic]anything[/italic] and nurse it. Cancelled field trip! This guy must have had a difficult time getting through the average week.
- "This guy must have had a difficult time getting through the average week."
That and the micropenis have me almost believing he posts on Datalounge.
- Whatever the DL equivalent is for straight guys, he probably does post there.
McNamara has posted a little update on the LA magazine site:
In the last week I’ve received dozens of responses from readers about my article “In the Footsteps of a Killer.” Many emails contained insights about the evidence and fresh ideas for how best to catch the Golden State Killer, the elusive serial violent offender that from 1976 to 1986 preyed on victims up and down California.
The map drew the most ideas, with many readers contributing theories based on their professional or academic backgrounds. One reader, a general contractor with experience with “golf planned communities,” felt the map looked like many of the communities he’d worked on. The hand drawn paths, he said, resembled golf cart paths.
Another had a chilling insight into the detailed property lines. They’re indicating fence lines, the tipster wrote, because the mapmaker is showing barriers he would encounter while moving around in the dark.
One reader felt there was a clue in the “Mad is the word that reminds me of 6th grade” journal entry. The “6” in “6th” grade looked more like a “G,” she pointed out, adding that the writer clearly went back and inserted the word “the” before the “6,” as if changing what he was originally going to write, which in her opinion was probably the name of the town he grew up in. A town, she surmised, which begins with “G.”
The “Mad is the word” evidence details the writer’s anger toward his male sixth-grade teacher. More than one reader pointed out that male sixth-grade teachers were relatively unusual in the 1960s, when the writer presumably was in elementary school.
Another reader noted that Visalia, where the Golden State Killer may have started out as a younger offender, was home to many pilots from nearby Lemoore Naval Air Station. The killer may have been the son of a pilot, the tipster theorized, as several other locations in the crime series are close to military air bases.
The emails I found most affecting were from people that had lived in Sacramento during the East Area Rapist attacks. Many of them expressed shock at stumbling across an article about him; some hadn’t realized he turned into a serial killer. All of them vividly recalled the climate of fear, the plainclothes detectives, patrol cars, and even, one wrote, neighborhood dads patrolling the streets armed and ready. They remembered the obsession with checking for pry marks on window screens, the hushed whispers about who in the neighborhood was a victim.
That time was a nightmare, one reader wrote, and the memories still haunted her. But, she concluded, “I’m thankful that he is not forgotten.”
- Not only am I not able to get an account created at the Cold Case site and cannot see missing pages of comments in threads, the board also doesn't even work in any browser but IE. How frustrating. They would probably get a lot more traffic and participation if they would find a place that functions.
- Holy crap that first message was creepy.
- In LA, KABC Channel 7 will be doing a report on this case, Tuesday night at 11PM.
- I am quickly becoming obsessed with this fellow.
Someone please, catch me before I read again.
- Did anyone see the report on KABC Tuesday night?
- Here's the video.
- I know who he is. He is an land planner originally from the Bay Area and responsible for the land planning of Irvine. The killings stopped with 2 last murders both in Irvine. irvine is his home and his desire has been fulfilled by suburbia planning. He is respected by his peers and does not want to risk his current wonderful life in Irvine.
- In other nutcase news, one of Luka Magnotta's attorneys quit yesterday, "overcome with emotion." The preliminary hearing started this week.
- Wait..is r92 a poster here or was that lifted from another site? Is that real? Can we find out who it is?
- r11, my God, the police LAUGHED at her???? WTF???
- Thanks for the link R91.
- A Sacramento station needs to cover this.
- R92, have you told the police about your land planner?
- r93, the man who lost composure was not the attorney who quit. The defense lawyer who announced the other's resignation was the one who lost it.
I'd love to know WTF would be considered a conflict in that trial that made the one attorney resign..
- R99 Thanks for catching my mistake.
However, that makes the story even more bizarre. Why would one attorney be so "overcome with emotion" that they checked to see if he was all right, simply because another attorney was stepping down.
I'm guessing this will prove to be something highly embarassing to the attorney who quit, if it is ever made public.
- Email Michelle McNamara, r92.
- I've been patient, but I just have to say: Would you mind starting your own threads or at least nicely ask if paid members would do it for your Luka Magnotti and any other serial killers or murderers or homicide cases on your behalf, please?
This seems to be the third or fourth attempt to derail this thread subject regardless of your stated intent. Just stop, please. I know there are a lot of Websleuth frau-types who are relentless, true crime-addicts of both genders and orientations trolling here. But please, at least, try to be respectful of those of us who try to keep up with the subject of GSK. Some of us grew up here and still live here. And if you can't be respectful, just pony up your $18 and start another thread. Surely, it's not that much skin off your noses?
Regardless, you're going to try to hijack anyway...
- "I know there are a lot of Websleuth frau-types who are relentless, true crime-addicts of both genders and orientations trolling here."
You mean like Michelle McNamarra, r102? Or, let's be a little fair - as the OP, surely you're a bit of a Websleuth? (What you mean by frau-type, I"m less sure.) If true crime addicts aren't the ones following and contributing to this thread, then exactly who else is trying to keep up with the subject of the GSK?
- The person the police in Goleta suspected was Brett Glasby. He grew up in Goleta, moved to Sacramento about the time the rapes started, then moved back to Goleta in 1979 when the killings started there. Then he traveled south (Irvine?), winding up in Mexico, where he was killed. And then the killings stopped.
- [quote]Or, let's be a little fair - as the OP, surely you're a bit of a Websleuth?
No. I'm a native Sacramentan who grew up during this era about a mile from the initial Rancho Cordova attacks. I now live in a house in East Sac with wrought iron bar work on the windows that stems from this era. We were scared shitless, believe me. It's natural to be curious about something so powerfully salient and frightening from your childhood/youth when it happened practically in your own backyard. It really was the bogeyman about to come through your window at any moment. Michelle McNamara mentions letters from people who lived here. I wasn't one of them, BTW.
I only found out about the "websleuths" website when I read about it at the Slate link I posted at R13. The site was difficult to navigate and I couldn't use the search function without registering, so I didn't bother.
- Ok, I didn't realise you were talking about a specific site, just the concept of websleuths in general.
But, it's not only native Sacramentans who can get interested in this case. I'm from the other side of the Atlantic and am still interested in it, and thank you for starting the thread. From what I've read, it strikes me that the conditions exist for this person to be uncovered, and it should only be a matter of time, effort and will on the part of the authorities. The other thing that strikes me most about this case is that, thankfully, forensic science and technology have moved on so much that a rapist/killer like the GSK could not appear again, at least not at his kill/murder rate.
- R102 I have no interest in "derailing" your thread, and I doubt anyone else does, either.
I have posted a total of twice on this thread. Once briefly at R93 because I thought it might be of interest to the people who read these types of threads. I also replied to R99 who had commented on my post.
I considered asking someone to start a separate thread but the Canadian court put a publication ban on evidence presented in the preliminary hearing. As a result, I don't know how much there will be to report.
However, if someone wants to start a Luka Magnotta trial thread, that's fine with me.
- I am interested in both Luka r107 and GSK. I am an admitted true crime/ murder junkie and the more of these threads the better. It's because of these good threads that I never once have had to wonder into any AC or Harry Styles thread.
- NEW EVIDENCE: Investigators Release a Third Recording Believed to Be of the Golden State Killer’s Voice - NSFW
One month after working with Los Angeles magazine to launch an online manhunt for the Golden State Killer authorities have released a new audio file believed to be of the suspect’s voice. This clip is from a Sacramento-area 911 call placed in late 1977 by an unknown male claiming to be the East Area Rapist. Investigators had intended to share this audio file along with the other new evidence published by the magazine in February but delayed its release so they could clean up and enhance the sound. Investigators would like to identify the man on this tape and believe that his voice sounds similar to the "Is Ray there?" caller.
- Is it just me, or does the guy in the recording sound like James Cameron?
- R111, don't blow my cover
James Cameron, serial killer
- Anyone have any new information on the Jack the Ripper case?
- What is he saying in that recording? I hear, "It's the East Area Rapist, you dumb fuckers..." but that's all I can make out.
- R114, he then says "I'm going to fuck again tonight. Be careful."
- This is one of the best threads I've read on DL. Fascinating and scary as hell. I read it late one night and kept checking the front door to make sure it was really locked! Anyone else have anything to add to r104's post on who the cops liked for the GSK?
- Wow, when I moved to Carmichael in '88 I had no idea I lived so close to where the EAR had been, I thought it was always east Sacramento. When I moved to a street on a cul de sac in '90 the realtor had to disclose that the EAR had committed a crime on my new street, but not at the house I was buying. It had been years since anything had happened, and most everyone thought he was like the Zodiac killer, probably jailed for something else. Those details were chilling, I knew about tying up the husbands and putting dishes on their backs, I didn't know the guy who had spoken up at Del Dayo was targeted.
- It's creepy how he stood there blinking slowly while not saying a word after being confronted by one of his victims.
In one of the recordings he's whispering and calling the female victim a bitch and a whore and threatened to kill her. In that particular recording he sounds like a teenager or maybe early twenties. In one of the other recordings he asked to speak to Ray and he sounds much older. Were those two recordings made on the same day or were they years apart?
He talks about being picked on and he was sulking about trivial ( but real and important to someone quite young) things that took place in 6th grade. That to me sounds like a person who has not lived a full ( or even partial) adult life and hasn't experience real adult hardships. He just doesn't sound very far removed from adolescences.
- ^ I think some of the victims said he looked like he was in his late teens
- This case is CRAZY. Not least of all because he managed to escape capture dozens of times.
Agree on the military connection. The theory at R51 makes a lot of sense.
The micropenis probably played no small part (har har!). Resentment toward women. Maybe one (an early girlfriend?) made fun of his dick or dumped him because of it, and he decided to punish/dominate as many women as he could to reclaim his masculinity. (The insistent "bitch" and "whore" in that chilling phone message supports that—a sexually assertive girlfriend who rejected his dick was the "whore.") The 6th grade reference could be puberty (which didn't turn out too well for him).
- "The micropenis probably played no small part (har har!). Resentment toward women. Maybe one (an early girlfriend?) made fun of his dick or dumped him because of it, and he decided to punish/dominate as many women as he could to reclaim his masculinity."
Please, if having a small penis made you magically turn into a serial killer then there would be a hell of a lot more serial killers out there
- Perhaps he should be referred to as the PTM Killer.
- Someone on the Cold Case forum wrote this:
Text from back of Journal Page from EAR/ONS/GSK
"...me write, hours and hours Id sit and write 50-100-150 sentance day and night I write those dreadful paragraphs which embarrased me and more important it made me ashamed of myself which in turn, deepdown in side made me realized that writing sentance wasn't fair. it wasnt fair to make me suffer like that, it just wasn't fair to make me sit and wright until my bones aked, until my hand felt every horrid pain it ever had and as I wrote, I got mader and mader until I cried, I cried because I was ashamed I cried because I was was dis(graced) I cried because I was mad and I cried for myself (but) who kept an having to write those (? lame) sentances. My angryness from sixth grade will scar my memory for life and I will be ashamed for my sixth grade year forever."
What a little pussy. I personally believe he would've been born between 53 and 57, which would put him age 24/25 at most in 1977 when his voice was recorded in the calls that have been released.
- ^ Is that actually from the killer or is it fake?
- He would usually break into homes on the weekends, up to eight homes in a day and would often come back the very next day to break into more homes. It's like he was in a manic state. When the break ins stopped giving him the high he was after he went on to rape, then raping and murdering single women, and then killing couples. What would he progress to after that?
I agree with R120, he was EXTREMELY bold and he would always attempt to meet a challenge, so it seems like was trying to reclaim his masculinity. He probably felt emasculated in his daily life. Maybe the killing stopped because he finally did reclaim his masculinity by achieving success in his life. I don't know.
They call this composite Half Mask and it was only released recently. He was in the process of burglarizing a home and the victim came home early and he wasn't expecting her. So that's why he has a surprised look on his face.
- r124 Yes, that text was translated from the notebook page they found from the killer. There is also a photo of another page from his notebook where he did a school report on General Custer.
- In some of these composites, he seems kinda hot.
- Not to keep picking on him because I actually like him and his work quite a lot, but this one DOES resemble James Cameron.
- Here's the General Custer paper.
- And here's the other letter R123 referenced.
- Sorry, this is the letter R123 referenced.
- I am thoroughly creeped out and totally fascinated by this now.
So crazy that they have NO idea who this guy is or even what he really looked like.
And the fact that he could basically vanish into thin air!
So much bungling: The neighbors who didn't call the cops on prowlers, the woman who shot at him and purposely missed, the COP who shot at him and missed...
- "In 2001, the San Francisco Chronicle quoted retired Sacramento County sheriff's detective Richard Shelby as saying the rapist called one of his victims in 1990 or 1991.
Shelby told reporters the victim heard children in the background and a woman speaking, possibly indicating the rapist had a family."
- Was it in the Sudden Terror book where I was reading about one of his recon missions in the daytime, looking into the living room window without his mask, not realizing that the woman and her boyfriend were in the bathroom getting ready for work? And the woman saw him and screamed and he took off running, and when the girl and her bf ran outside to chase after him, the next door neighbors who had been RIGHT THERE working in their gardens hadn't seen or heard him coming OR going/running away.
That kind of shit must have made him feel invincible and only fueled his ego and desire to keep committing the crimes.
- Is he Greg Smith, R92?
- I know R134, I don't get how he went unnoticed and got away every single time. It's like he was some kind of superhuman ninja or something. Of all the serial killers I've heard about and read about, this one is by far the most frightening and bizarre.
I still can't wrap my head around the fact that he didn't do anything to the man who confronted him other than stare at him, blink, and step back. I wonder what it was about that particular guy. Did he fear the guy? Do sociopaths or psychopaths even express fear?
- "Not to keep picking on him because I actually like him and his work quite a lot, but this one DOES resemble James Cameron."
To me it looks like Larry Bird...
- R92, how do you know who he is?
- I remember when I was in high school, some local girl went missing. Jessica something.
Anyway, her parents came to talk to our school during lunch. It was so awkward because the podium was right in front of me and my friends' table. I was eating and the mom looked down at me and said "Please don't eat when I'm speaking".
We only got 30 min for lunch and this bitch's dsughter didn't even go to our school. My friends and I spent the rest of her speaking time asking stupid questions like "Did you look under the mattress?" And "She probably wanted to get away from you!" Lol
This thread made me think of her. I don't think they ever found her but I can't remember her last name!
- Audio of a call he made to the police department in 1977: "You're never going to catch me... you dumb fuckers."
- I really shouldn't have listened to those recordings or clicked on this thread.
I read somewhere that he tended to hiss and speak through clinched teeth, and a lower voice when attacking younger victims but spoke in more normal tones when attacking older ones.
- You have to wonder if he's even still alive. Someone like him, a person with a compulsion to kill/rape isn't going to suddenly stop ( and certainly not for nearly 30 years) he wouldn't suddenly change his M.O. either, at least not drastically. There hasn't been a murder in the United States that matches his M.O. since 1986 (at least as of 2011).
I also think he was known in the communities he chose to attack and no one ever suspected him because he was believed to be a harmless nice guy or too young to commit these sorts of crimes. That's why he didn't stand out to anyone at the community meeting, they were familiar with him. I have to wonder if he was murdered while trying to commit another murder, it's very possible.
There seems to be a medical connection as well. Two victims were doctors, a few were nurses, and one woman's husband was in the hospital the night she was murdered. I wonder if he was a med student or a doctor. Although, I do agree that he sounds very young in one of those recordings which is the one I think is most likely to really be him. I find this type of serial killer, the kind that is so bold that he will come to you on your turf to be the most frightening.
- I read somewhere that DNA samples were requested of prisoners on CA's Death Row, to rule them out as GSK and a court ruled against the requesters.
I think he ended up in prison or took his own life.
- This might break the case.
- From that article, r144, it seems they may break some cases but not necessarily this one.
R143, I can't believe that. And, wouldn't they already have your DNA if you're on Death Row? I
According to Wiki:
"In November 2002, journalist Colleen Cason wrote a newspaper series about the Original Night Stalker murders for the Ventura County Star. According to Cason's articles, Detective Larry Pool of the Orange County Sheriff's Department visited California's Death Row at San Quentin State Prison in an attempt to locate the Original Night Stalker. Detective Pool suspected that the Original Night Stalker had been captured and sentenced to death for some other violent crime. Nevertheless, none of the genetic samples collected from Death Row inmates at San Quentin matched the DNA of the Original Night Stalker."
- Well, I purchased the (only) book about this case titled "Sudden Terror" yesterday and I'm nearly finished with it. I had a couple of questions about the EAR that I hoped that the book would answer and so far it has. As a child I had a friend who had a stuttering problem. He would eventually overcome it but when we were young he would sometimes whisper or speak through clenched teeth so that he wouldn't stutter. So this led me to believe that the reason the EAR did this was not to just insill fear in his victims but to also cover up his stuttering problem.
Well, some of the victims said that he did in fact have a slight stutter. I also wondered about his sexuality. I didn't want to say anything but there were some clues that made me think that the EAR had an attraction to men and he detested this attraction. In a few of the profiles done on the EAR it is mentioned that he would likely have homosexual tendencies. He also raped at least 1 male victim.
He was/is a serial rapist/killer with a very specific type, he liked tall attractive women with long hair. He broke into the home of two teenage sisters who were home alone and tied them both up but only raped the taller sister. He didn't appear to have any interest in female victims below the age of 15 or older than late thirties.
A couple of times he attacked the wrong person and when he discovered that they weren't who he thought they were he would leave them without raping them. Also, if the woman/girl had any imperfections, like scars he wouldn't touch them or rape them, he would leave. Many victims reported that he would break out in deep crying spells in the middle of the attacks while talking about his mother. It was like he was pleading with his mother and asking her not to make him do this ( he would use the word mommy).
Based on what I've read so far he always wanted to kill but felt he needed a very good reason to justify it. It was also as if he was reading from a script, he would say the same things every single time. And if something threw him off script he would often abort the attack. When the woman told him that he was a good lover, he was thrown off script and he stopped raping her. He told her that he was made fun of for being small and because of what happened to his face. Crazy.
- "In a few of the profiles done on the EAR it is mentioned that he would likely have homosexual tendencies."
ROFLMAO. "Experts" used to say that about all crazy people. They thought if you were crazy you MUST be gay. It was based on hatred of gays. Homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness. Criminal profiling is junk science.
"I didn't want to say anything but there were some clues that made me think that the EAR had an attraction to men and he detested this attraction."
What clues? Guys who rape women are usually heterosexual men who hate women for denying them the sex that they believe they are entitled to.
- I played the recordings for my bf, who freaked. I have more of a stomach for true crime than he does.
Last night I came to bed two hours after he fell asleep and I started hissing, "I'm gonna kiiiilll you... I'm gonna kiiiiillll you..." in his ear and on the second "bitch" he woke up screaming.
Boyfriend of the year, right here!
- r148, you're an asshole.
However, since I laughed at that, I guess I am too.
- I don't think he's a homo, either. However, that description of how he talked about his mother makes me think she molested/raped him as a child.
- R150, that is what I was thinking too.
- Why is this serial killer not well known? I would have thought Hollywood would have latched onto him by now. Not even a telemovie?
- "However, that description of how he talked about his mother makes me think she molested/raped him as a child."
Doubt it. But some people want to blame child molestation for everything bad that happens...
- "Why is this serial killer not well known? I would have thought Hollywood would have latched onto him by now."
If he'd preyed on Southern California instead of Northern, he'd be more famous than the Zodiac.
- I wouldn't worry or get offended by the "homosexual tendencies" allegation because it is essentially meaningless. Approximately half of all known serial killers have had sex or relationships with the same sex but it's not because they are gay ( though some may truly be), it's because they are sociopaths. Sociopaths tend to be sexually ambiguous. Some people attempt to describe their sexuality as bisexual but that doesn't quite fit either. Their sexuality can't be labeled or categorized and they can be whatever they want to be in order to get what they are after.
GSK has probably been with men but it would be unsual for him to feel guilty about it since sociopaths are indifferent to social norms/rules as well as guilt and shame. The only reason he would feel guilty about it or detest it would be if he was rejected by his family or peers because he slept with men. I think he was rejected/abused by his family and rejected/bullied by his peers but not solely because he slept with men but it probably had a bit to do with that. I think this along with constant rejection from women made him go insane with anger.
Something in his life made him feel emasculated and thus powerless. Sociopaths crave power so being emasculated and rejected probably sent him over the edge. If he is still alive, then he is probably over 50 and has become less impulsive (sociopaths are extremely impulsive) and has slowed down or stopped completely. At this age calling the victims or looking at souvenirs from the crimes would be enough to get the thrill he is after. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that all sociopaths are serial killers, in fact the vast majority aren't. But most ( if not all) serial killers are sociopaths.
- That's the thing that irritates me about this case, R152. I've lived in Southern California since I was 10 and I'm now 26 and this thread was the first time I've heard about this case. I've heard about Richard Ramirex, Hillside Stranglers, Zodiac, Freeway Killer ( we seem to have a lot of serial killers here)... but never this guy.
Unless this guy was a complete and total loner someone knows who he is. Someone had to see the pattern. The sobbing thing has me confused because sociopaths/psychopaths don't typically feel that kind of emotion. And since psychopaths are very manipulative I thought the sobbing had to be fake.
However, the victims said it sounded very real. He would sob to the point of hyperventilating. And then silence.
The book mentioned several hospital workers and hotline workers alerting the police about strange young men either coming into the hospitals or calling and asking for help. One person said the young man asked if she could please help him because he didn't want to hurt women and their husband anymore. He was paranoid about the phones being tapped and would angrily ask if the conversation was being recorded. She told him it wasn't but he didn't believe her and slammed down the phone. This is interesting because some of the victims said that while he was sobbing he would ask if somebody or if his mommy could please help him.
Another woman said a young man came into her facility asking strange questions and behaving oddly. He said that he had sexual problems ( the victims said that he could hardly maintain an erection) and that his father had a girlfriend but that he didn't. She said he was very polite but strange. As he exited the facility he told her that he liked to sing and started singing a Johnny Cash song.I can't figure out if this is real remorse or just manipulation. A psychopath wouldn't feel remorse. Unless he isn't a true psychopath but has some other form of psychosis but with psychopathic tendencies.
- I forgot to add that the young man also told several people that he had been in counseling his whole life and spent some time in a mental hospital. He even gave the name of the hospital. He also told the hospital worker that he had an appointment with his psychiatrist coming up soon. I don't know if this is truth or lies and manipulation.
He constantly lied to his victims by telling them he saw them at places they had never been. He also constantly tried to insinuate that he was homeless or living in the woods. I'm kind of leaning towards truth because he never identified himself as the EAR. If he had, then you could trust that it was lies and manipulation.
- "Approximately half of all known serial killers have had sex or relationships with the same sex"
Only in your imagination
"Sociopaths tend to be sexually ambiguous."
Again, only in your imagination.
"Some people attempt to describe their sexuality as bisexual but that doesn't quite fit either. Their sexuality can't be labeled or categorized and they can be whatever they want to be in order to get what they are after."
ROFLMAO. All of this is bullshit. Sociopathy has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
- What I don't understand are the differing descriptions given of the killer.
One person said blond/blue, another said dark hair.
How difficult can it be to find a 5'9" blond, stuttering, under-endowed, facially scarred, former mental patient with erectile difficulties and ultra-muscular legs?
- "How difficult can it be to find a 5'9" blond, stuttering, under-endowed, facially scarred, former mental patient with erectile difficulties and ultra-muscular legs?"
He dyed his hair, dummy!
- I love when idiots make themselves known. Educated people are aware that in order to invalidate another person's assertion one must provide facts. "ROTFLMAO" doesn't suffice. You're defensiveness tells me that you must believe (subconsciously) that there is a link between homosexuality and serial killing. That's unfortunate. Maybe there's an app for that.
"Although the proportion of serial killers who are known to have had homosexual experience is high (over 43%)"
- For the perpetuially insecure and defensive among us.
"The original diagnostic and statistical manual (DSM), released in 1952, listed homosexuality as a sociopathic personality disturbance. The connection between the two was subsequently removed due to protests from the gay community that homosexuality was being equated with sociopathy. Many have commented since that sociopaths seem to have no particular sexual identity, that even the term bisexual is misleading as it implies some sort of a preference, albeit a shared one, and that "equal opportunity" is a more apt label. In fact, the sociopath seems to be the bonobo of the human world -- frequent, casual, utilitarian sex. As one person reasoned, "such an individual, in their quest for dominance and power would not feel the need to discriminate according to gender."
- "Sociopaths are hard-wired for sex. They have an excessive need for stimulation, excitement and sensation. They also have no fear and no inhibitions. From a sexual perspective, that means a voracious appetite and anything goes.
Dr. Liane Leedom writes that sociopaths only want two things. One of them is power. The other is sex.
So when it comes to sexual orientation, I believe sociopaths are neither straight nor gay. In short, they’ll screw anyone.
Lovefraud has heard from gay individuals—men and women—who were involved in gay relationships with sociopaths. I asked several of them if they thought the sociopath was actually gay. They all agreed with my theory and said the sociopath was not gay."
- great thread everyone!
Ausie here - had never heard about this case - pretty chilling stuff!!
Just wondering tho:
Several have mentioned - based on victim testimony - that the killer has a very small cock - or even a micropenis.
But lots of posters seem to think he was also very likley in the military?
Is this really very probable?
Just that years ago - I remember seeing a Australian film here - which was based on a book - written and set in the forties. One of the lead male characters was a radio celeb/entertainer who looked perfectly healthy and robust but had not enlisted or later been drafted - & copped a lot of flak over it. His big secret was that the reason he hadn't gone into the services was because he had been rejected due to his micropenis. It obviously didn't effect his general health - but would have made his life in the forces a nightmare of teasing, etc - and it was deemed enough to disqualify him from enlisting...
Don't know if the American forces have a similar rule? - especially with voluntary enlistment rather than conscription in times of war - but really think it would be pretty tough in the military for a man with a true micropenis!
And wouldn't the police at the time - if they knew about this characteristic - and were also thinking he was in the military - have used it to try and track him down there? i mean - it can't be that common within the ranks as surely anyone with that affliction would think twice about joining up only to be subjected to the endless barracks humour they'd cop over it?
Maybe instead it was someone who wishes they could have been in the military - maybe even worked in a civilian military support capacity? Somewhere where they didn't have to actually shower with others and participate in potentially awkward sitautions with other men en masse - and could just go home after work?
This might also be relevant with all the writings on the sixth grade and how horrible a year that was - it might have been the year where the whole micropenis thang became important and singled him out as different from all the others who were growing up and maturing?
Just a thought anyway - perhaps someone here knows US armed forces policy and perspective on the whole cock-size issue - lol!
- r158, I bel1eve r155 is correct. Psychopaths see people as objects. It doesn't matter if the person is male or female. They often use sex as a way to manipulate.
The female psychopath I knew would have sex with either gender, but I feel sex was just a means to an end, a way to try and gain control.
- I don't get that either, R159. The guy who confronted him in his house before the EAR could attack said that he had bright blue eyes, yet several others said he had dark eyes. This may be a stupid question but I'm kind of young and I wasn't around in the 70s. But did they have colored contacts back then? I think he wore disguises when he would drive or walk through neighborhoods. I also think he sunbathed during the summer and that could explain why some people say he was dark while others said he was very pale.
This is probably not connected but I grew up in an upper-middle class neighborhood in Socal. I had a friend who lived in a condo with his mother and he would tell me about a guy with a ski mask who would come around the condos at night a try to get inside a neighbor's condo. I didn't believe him because he was known to make things up.
I visited him a lot and would sometimes sleep over. Well, one day they had I guess what you'd call a block party and I was going to stay over that night. Due to the party the kids were allowed to play outside much later than usual. I was about 8 or 9 at the time and we decided to go play in the alley in the back of the condos. As we were walking the little girl who was walking in front of me suddenly paused. I didn't know why so I walked around her to get to the alley and that's when I saw the masked man kneeling behind a car with a gun in his hand. When he saw me he ran and so did I.
I told the adults what I saw and they went back there but didn't find anything. That's when I overheard my friend's mom say that when she came home late one night around 1 in the morning, she saw a strange guy walking around the condos acting like he was leaving. She could tell that he was only pretending to leave because he saw her.
She also noticed that she couldn't see his face, it was just black where his face was. She was spooked so she called the cops but they didn't find anything. About a week later there was a break in at one of the condos. The owner was a tall, slim, fair skinned, attractive black or African American woman. The guy put his hand through her daughter's window (which was the only window he had access to)and her daughter screamed so loud a neighbor heard it an ran out and chased the guy but the guy pulled a gun on him. They called the police but they couldn't find him.
Eventually, the woman moved away. This was around 1995/96. And the guy matched the height and weight of the EAR and the potential victim fits the profile. My friend's mom was attractive but short and he had no interest in attacking her because he could have. It probably was someone else but just thinking that it could have been the EAR freaks me out.
- "Educated people are aware that in order to invalidate another person's assertion one must provide facts."
Educated people don't use debunked, inaccurate studies or quotes from "psychologists" who don't have the statistics to back up their generalizations. Notice how the "Lovefraud" idiot uses generaliztions and anecdotal evidence with no statistics to back up her claims. The part about sociopaths being "wired" for sex is especially hilarious since EVERYONE is wired for sex. We all want sex, not just sociopaths. The "sociopath world" site is also really dumb and makes claims without having the statistics to back up any claims. There, r162 and r163, I just debunked your "evidence"
"You're defensiveness tells me that you must believe (subconsciously) that there is a link between homosexuality and serial killing. That's unfortunate. Maybe there's an app for that."
You desperation to "prove" that there is a link between homosexuality and serial killing tells me that you must be a self-loathing gay or a straight homophobe who is trolling gay sites. That's unfortunate. Maybe there's an app for that.
"Psychopaths see people as objects. It doesn't matter if the person is male or female"
Seeing people as objects is not the same thing as being bisexual.
- "Although the proportion of serial killers who are known to have had homosexual experience is high (over 43%)"
Funny how you don't mention that this figure comes from a biased, anti-gay "study".
There, proved you wrong again!
Why are you posting fake info from anti-gay groups?
Are you a Log Cabinette, or just a homophobe?
- Now, I know for a fact that you're a complete idiot who can't read. You don't even know what point you're trying to argue. I'm saying that sociopaths/serial killers are generally not gay because they have an indiscriminate sexual preference while you're attempting to argue based on nothing more than your emotions and gut feeling that this isn't true, therefore sociopaths/serial killers (the ones who are psychopaths) are gay.
I find it hilarious that someone who thinks that sociopath sexuality is no different than empath sexuality (this just has to be a joke) believes himself to be an expert on this topic and believes that his opinions based on emotion is valid evidence. Since you're the expert here, we will all agree with you and say that the reason nearly half of all serial killers have had sex with the same sex is because they are all gay and sociopath sexuality is no different from empath sexuality.
The fact that you think that sociopaths are centered and are fully aware of their identities, sexual or otherwise is also quite funny. I don't know why someone who doesn't even know the basics would want to argue about it. I'm not going to keep arguing with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. If you want to believe that half of all serial killers are gay, go for it.
"Sex is used as an expression of intimacy but strictly as physical stimulation—the psychopath is indiscriminate in whether he is sexual with men, women, and children, including his own, although not all psychopaths are incestuous."
- Holy shit, you are ridiculously stupid. Seriously can you read at all?
An article that says this:
"Below is a list of serial killers who were homosexuals. This list is intended for reference purposes only and does not imply a causal relationship between homosexuality and serial killing."
"But more importantly, none of the serial killers listed here represent typical homosexuals, who, like the general population, are almost never involved in violent crime. The exact nature of each individual's feelings, attitudes, and behavior with regards to sex is unique, in the general population as well as among serial killers. Legally, all or nearly all of the homosexual serial killers on this list would be considered sexual deviants because of the extreme and violent nature of their acts -- not simply because of their homosexual orientation. It must be emphasized that violent sexual deviancy is exhibited by heterosexual serial killers as well."
"Although the proportion of serial killers who are known to have had homosexual experience is high (over 43%), the total number of serial killers is too small to make statistically relevant statements about whether homosexuals are over- or under-represented among serial killers"
is an anti-gay article? You're arguing that sociopaths and serial don't tend to be sexually ambiguous but rather they are gay but I'm the anti-gay one? Somehow everyone gets it but you. Let's take a guess as to why. It must be painful to be so stupid. I'm cringing with embarrassment for you. Anyway, I'm not going to aid in hijacking this thread.
I think this will help you quite a bit. You're welcome!
- "Seeing people as objects is not the same thing as being bisexual."
I totally agree. Where did I ever equate the two?
- Stop fucking derailing this thread with your "GSK was a homo" diatribes. Start a new one if you want, but nobody with a shred of common sense believes it and it's a dead end in solving the case.
As for hair color, it can be changed. Easily. But most people described him as being blonde or light brown, so I can see how there'd be a discrepancy because for some reason unknown to me, some people are always going to have difficulty identifying what the rest of us call "dirty blonde" hair.
And witnesses are rarely 100% reliable, this is a known fact. This case is somewhat lucky in that he had enough victims he left alive that there could emerge a majority answer vs. a crime of a more isolated type with only one or two victims (that's much more of a crapshoot unless there is more evidence).
- "Holy shit, you are ridiculously stupid"
Ha ha ha. Look who's talking, moron.
"Let's take a guess as to why. It must be painful to be so stupid. I'm cringing with embarrassment for you"
We're all cringing at YOU for being stupid, and for getting "facts" from bullshit websites and debunked studies done by homophobic "research" journals. I can't believe someone would post such homophobic shit at a gay board. You're just a gullible retard who gets "facts" from silly websites, not from studies that have any credibility.
"I find it hilarious that someone who thinks that sociopath sexuality is no different than empath sexuality (this just has to be a joke)"
I find it hilarious that you think you are an expert on "sociopath sexuality" without having any real statistics to back up your claims. Instead you link to silly sites like sociopath world and lovefraud.
If you click of the link that says "source" next to the "43%" claim it says that statistic comes from an anti-gay journal. So, yes, you are using anti-gay "research" to make your claims.
Oh, and the "list of homosexual serial killers" that you referenced includes people who weren't even gay. But you're gullible so you believe everything you read on the web...
- You have to be the biggest idiot I've ever come across on DL. You have the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader. You have to work in fast food because you don't have an ounce of intelligence to do anything else. I've said several times ( and provided evidence) that sociopaths aren't gay or straight or bisexual because their sexuality can't be categorized. Yet you claim it is only in my imagination.
You're too stupid to realize that you are claiming that they are gay and bisexual. If you believe that sociopaths are only sexually ambiguous in my imagination then you also believe that half of all serial killers are homosexual. In your next post provide evidence that every study I've cited has been debunked and is anti-gay. Otherwise I'll just take you for the complete idiot (who can't read or process information to save your life) that you are.
- Well, R172, he said that the homosexual tendencies thing was "essentially meaningless" because sociopaths have no particular sexual preference. So I think he acknowledge that it's a dead end.
It's true that eye witness accounts have a terrible accuracy rate for the most part. And then you have to consider the immense terror the victims experienced. Many were too scared to even look at him.
I also think the reason so many of the composites are different is because the EAR probably wasn't the only creepy person looking for trouble in these communities. However, there are some composites that are very similar. A long nose, deep-set eyes, a somewhat oval facial shape. I'm going to see if I can find them to show you what I mean.
- Here's one
- And another
The interesting thing is most of the composites show no facial scarring/deformities ( only one I saw showed some scarring). The EAR alluded to having something wrong with his face and he said it like something happened to his face not that he was born that way. Psychopaths constantly lie and manipulate but the woman telling him that he was a good lover appeared to catch him off-guard.
He didn't lie about his small penis size and probably being ridiculed about it ( I guess he couldn't but that never stops a psychopath) so I'm leaning toward him telling the truth about a problem with his face.
Also, several real estate agents said an odd man came to look at the homes they were selling. He asked strange questions and appeared to be checking the locks and windows and what have you. If I'm not mistaken, they all said he had acne scarring.
- This is an interesting article. It basically explains that psychopaths or psychopathic predators are much more likely than non-psychopaths to have diverse victim types (males, females, and children). In short, it basically explains that the reason is boredom, they need new and different thrills/experiences. That's why he raped at least one male victim.
- This is another interesting article ( I hope that you can access it). It basically explains why someone like the EAR, a psychopath or someone with psychopathic tendencies, would go from ransacking homes to murder. Again, boredom. It explains why their crimes get progessively worse.
They need constant and new stimulation. And because they can't form attachments ( to people or just anything) they aren't sworn to a particular type of crime or victim. The EAR appeared to have no interest in young children, but if he became bored with murder it would only be because he found some other form of stimulation. He's older and less agile so he could have easily become a child predator today.
The article also leads me to believe that he probably partook in sexual bondage, domination in his regular life. That's if he ever found a real relationship or sexual partner.
Why do psychopaths have to be so frightening? Jeez!
- [quote]Why do psychopaths have to be so frightening?
Going out on a limb here...because they're crazy?
- True. I wish they didn't exist because there is no cure. And many are let out of prison everyday only to re-offend and commit even more severe crimes. I guess they served some evolutionary purpose since it's more common among men and government and business leaders and people in many other powerful positions.
- I made the HUGE MISTAKE of googling the golden state killer and seeing that HORRIBLE "angry and surprised" sketch artist drawing. Omg.
That is too creepy.
- Re: the crying/Mommy stuff
I think it was all an act to plant a false image of himself and to mindfuck with his victims. He did other things like take breaks between assaults to raid the fridge and drink beer (or make it seem like he had by pouring it down the sink) He knew what he was doing.
- Yeah you're probably right. Because 1) It doesn't make sense for a psychopath to feel that kind of emotion 2) A person like EAR who clearly thrived on control and inciting fear wouldn't lose control and have an unexpected breakdown in the middle of an assault. Everything he did and said was planned. He did and said the same thing so much that the book felt repetitive. One victim, I think a male, said the crying sounded fake; however, the others said it sounded real.
He knew that they'd build a profile on him based on his crimes and what he did during the crime, so he was probably trying to throw them off.
He desperately wanted people to think he was homeless/living at a camp site, drove a van, and was on drugs, yet he wore different masks, gloves, and clothing ( what little he wore) to each crime. He also appeared to have access to many different cars. Of course the cars could have been stolen.
- I wonder if the 'Mommy' stuff was real and his parents were early members of the Children of God cult in CA, which made members' kids have sex with each other. And he went into the military to escape it.
- Well, you never know. This is my first time hearing about that cult. Based on what I've read serial killers/rapists are typically psychopaths who had unstable home environments. Many had alcoholic fathers who severely abused their mothers and them. Many also had absentee fathers ( or no father around period) and single mothers who were sex workers. So yeah, unstable, abusive home environments.
During one of the attacks he found a military uniform while ransacking and asked the male victim what branch of service he was in, the victim told him that he was in the Air Force and the EAR remarked that he had been kicked out. However, this could have been a lie.
One of the female victims said that about a week or so before the attack she was at a restaurant/club on a military base where a strange man whose lips barely moved asked her what her name was. She didn't tell him because she was spooked. So a lot of people believe that there is a military connection.
- Where's the definitive site to read about The East Side Rapist / Original Night Stalker/ Golden State Killer? EAR/ONS or GSK to fans.
This LAist author chick seems INCREDIBLY self-aggrandizing. Tons of photos of her, discussion of her website, listing of her email. Do you think she wants the EAR/ONS to contact her directly? That sounds absolutely TERRIFYING.
I listened to those tapes. He sounded like he had a California accent to me.
- This site seems to have an enormous amt of information. There are huge spreadsheets and timelines you can download, etc.
- Uh, hello, R92's post... ?
Has anyone determined if that's pulled from another site, or if it's a DL original?
- [quote] Because 1) It doesn't make sense for a psychopath to feel that kind of emotion 2) A person like EAR who clearly thrived on control and inciting fear wouldn't lose control and have an unexpected breakdown in the middle of an assault.
And your source is?
- Uh, if you think stating that a sociopath/psychopath wouldn't feel any sort of legitimate emotion that would lead them to cry and that they by their very nature thrive on control and domination needs to be cited, then this topic just may be beyond your scope. These are the things that make them, you know, sociopaths.
- Still no attention from the Sacramento media, as far as I can tell.
- I would've tried to find all the male 6th grade teachers in Goleta. We had one at my school in 1973. It was rare.
It would be a Herculean task, but surely if they found the guy he'd remember that kid.
- This case was botched to hell and back. I couldn't believe it when I read that one of the cops refused to shoot EAR-ONS because he looked like a kid, yet that kid had no problem shooting at him. It's not like he had to shoot to kill. Think of how many lives could have been saved. Today cops will put 20 bullets in your ass for jaywalking with a cellphone in your hand and couldn't care less about how old you are or look.
Was prowling so normal in the 70s that no one thought enough of it to call the cops when they saw a prowler? I don't get it. Nine times out of ten, if a prowler/burglar comes to your house when they KNOW that it's a good chance that you're in it, they aren't just coming for your stuff.
- To this day, R196, cops are slow to shoot at white kids.
- Well, R191, I'm not saying that anything that I say specifically about the EAR's personality is factual. None of us can make that claim because we don't know who he is. Therefore, everything I say is nothing but speculation. It's just me thinking out loud and typing what I'm thinking.
I'm not saying that it is an absolute fact that the crying was fake. I was just responding to another poster's point about it being fake and I just stated why he/she could be right. If he's a psychopath then the odds are that it was fake. But we don't know for a fact that he is, I think the likelihood of him being one is very, very high just based on the accounts of his behavior in the book and on other sites.
However, he can be schizophrenic or have schizoid personality disorder. If the latter is true, then the crying could be real. It's all speculation.
- In the one audio where he calls her a bitch and fucking whore, he sounds really young. In the is Ray there audio, he sounds like he is older in his 20s/30s.
I'm thinking he was a gymnast. I don't think he grew up to be someone successful.
Is there a link that I missed stating what the professional profilers think he is like?
- "In the one audio where he calls her a bitch and fucking whore"
Sounds like a DL'er.
- [quote]This case was botched to hell and back.
That is an understatement. I've never read about such a hapless investigation. They had a six-man task force, police helicopters overhead, community meetings of 500 attendees, citizen patrols... and the guy continued, unabated.
It just doesn't make sense.
- He sounds super-young in the "bitch/whore" call, and in the call he made to 911. ("I'm going to fuck again tonight... be careful.") Like 16, even. No older than 20.
There's something young about that phrasing: "I'm going to fuck again tonight." It's a strangely neutral term for a threatening call. Not "I'm going to rape again tonight" or "I'm going to strike tonight." When you're young, the idea of "fucking" seems like such an extreme, illicit thing... could explain why he used it instead of something more terrifying.
And "Be careful" — that's something parents say to their kids.
- I know where you're coming from R195. I became frustrated after reading over and over and over again about neighbors seeing prowlers and not calling the police. The EAR's crimes were in the paper and on the news so most knew about him, yet they still didn't call. There was also a woman who lived alone who just knew that the EAR would come to her house and sure enough he did. Well, she was ready for him and shot at him as he climbed through her window. However, she missed intentionally. She feared she'd get in trouble for shooting him.
We have to remember that it's very difficult for most normal people who aren't under the influence of drugs/alcohol to intentionally kill/harm another person, plus most people wouldn't be able to think straight in a situation like that. It's frustrating but I'm sure that many of the neighbors, police officers, and others who came close to capturing or taking out the EAR, feel enough guilt about it.
I also wonder why the police didn't patrol the neighborhood streets that EAR consistently hit and write down license plate numbers. The bloodhounds always followed his scent to a parking space blocks away.
I kind of think that the EAR was a cop or had some affiliation with the police. The time he attacked Rose and her daughters was bizarre. The victims escaped and he chased them out of the door, ran across the street, and hid behind a bush watching them closely.
A neighbor saw the whole thing and said that after the victim and her daughters went into a neighbors house, EAR just causally strolled down the street like he didn't have a care in the world. Here was a man who had just viciously attacked a mother and her daughter, wearing a mask and nude for the waist down just casually walking down the street. A couple of minutes later the police showed up and of course they couldn't find him. The police also setup several stakeouts in homes that the EAR prepped, yet he never showed up. Unless he watches the homes he's about to break into 24/7 how would he know about the stakeouts every single time?
- [quote]Going out on a limb here...because they're crazy?
No, they are not crazy. They are sane enough to know to hide their criminal behavior.
What they are is evil.
- Wow, the media was really explicit about his tinymeat.
It's even in the lede of this article!
[quote]A rapist cursed with "inadequate endowment" has Sacramento suburbanites shivering in terror.
- I would just LOVE to know what goes through his mind as he sits at his computer and reads people talking about him and his tinymeat, like you KNOW he does if he's still kicking.
- The coverage was really tabloidy-trashy. No wonder the city was in a panic.
[quote]Next victims die tonight?
- [quote]Wow, the media was really explicit about his tinymeat.
[quote]It's even in the lede of this article!
Keep reading, and he's referred to as a "panic homosexual", raised by a weak father and domineering mother. I know it was 1977, but Christ.
- On another website I saw a few comments clowning big time about his tinymeat and I thought to myself that if he saw those comments he is flipping his lid. I think that LA Times writer has some balls. She has pictures of herself and all kinds of information about herself online. Maybe she's confident in knowing that she doesn't fit the profile.
I too think that the cops botched this case. They refused to even coordinate with other cops in the other cities/counties GSK hit. That's some ridiculously stupid shit.
I don't know what to think about R92's post. It does sound like a life a sociopath would be happy with but I suspect that he's pulling our leg.
- r198 Here is another profile of GSK from the Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement.
- That's what I thought too, R198. He sounds very young on the gonna kill you, bitch, whore recording. But he sounds so much older in the Ray recording. I wonder why they think the Ray recording is him? I know they said that he would disguise his voice, but could he have possibly been that good at it? I think the 911 call is him because his victims said he used the word fuck a lot, it was like every other word. And he would ask them if they liked to fuck.
I agree with everything you said, R201. I thought the exact same thing. If he wasn't as young as I think he was then he was extremely emotionally immature. However, several people ( including a police officer) who encountered someone believed to be EAR said that he was just a kid.
- "However, he can be schizophrenic or have schizoid personality disorder"
Definitely not schizophrenic, and schizoids are not prone to violence. People would be able to tell if an assailant is schizophrenic even when he's committing a masked assault, certain peculiarities of language, facial expression, and body language are symptoms of the disease. Not to mention that a schizophrenic would not be capable of an organized, well-planned campaign of violence.
As for why he was able to skip away from the police time after time, did police scanner radios exist at the time?
- You should read/watch "Programmed to Kill" I'm not sure if he includes the GSK. He connects the serial killer phenomenon with the MIC. Very interesting.
America has far more serial killers than any other country on earth. Something like 275. The country with the second most serial killers is Britain with 50, and it goes way down from there. Most countries have had 3-4 serial killers at most.
- I saw an interview with Edmund Kemper, and he cried when he talked about fucking the headless corpse of his mother.
So I do not believe that psychopaths are unable to feel anything.
- [quote]So I do not believe that psychopaths are unable to feel anything.
They can not feel for other people. They have no empathy. Other people are nothing more than objects to them.
They can emulate emotions and feign how they think they are suppose to feel.
If Ed Kemper was genuinely crying, then it was for himself. Psychopaths are good at feeling sorry for themselves. Nothing is ever their fault.
- What type of hell broke loose in California in the 60s/70s that so many creepy, scary things were occurring back then (Manson, Zodiac, GSK, Hillside)?
- Excellent research paper on psychopaths ability to feel by a neuro-psychiatrist.
I am not a monster; I am a man
- Agree with r215. A very strange time indeed. Like a weird neurotoxin was released.
Although not in Cali, the Richard Speck murders also happened in the 60s.
- Following on from what r190 said - is r92's claim credible? Or just payback for someone who messed up his garden?
- People - r92 was just trying to create a composite of who he / she thought the killer was / is. It's just a facile guess by a poster who has nothing to back it up. Again, r92 doesn't really know the killer. Doesn't know the killer's name, address, or even occupation. It's just a throw away post and should be ignored.
- I was thinking along the same lines, R214. I can't imagine that he cried because of what he did to his mother because that would suggest empathy. Although, he could have been crying for himself or for manipulation purposes.
A friend of mine has a sociopathic relative who was diagnosed as a teen. She tried to explain to me what a sociopath's mind is like by telling me to imagine walking to work one morning and being late because the alarm clock didn't go off at it's usual time. In order to get to work on time I'd have to take a shortcut through a large grass field and in doing so I would probably damage/harm/kill various plants and insects by trampling on them.
It's unlikely that this would make me sad, keep me up all night racked with guilt or remorse ( unless you're an extreme empath). In all likelihood I wouldn't think about it at all or even acknowledge that I've done any harm and besides I had to get to work on time. If other people cried over the dead grass and threw me in prison for walking on it, I'd think they were irrational. I wouldn't understand their response or why they couldn't simply replace the grass. I'd think that it was just grass and grass isn't very important. Here you see blame, narcissism/selfishness and lack of empathy.
- I'm no expert on these things, but I would doubt that GSK was a teenager when he killed. I have doubts that a teen boy attacks older women or older couples in such brazen fashion. It seems than when a perp is a teenage male, he is usually attacking other teens (people that he is on the same "level" as or can control). It is relatively rare that a rapist is a teenager attacking older women.
- Another completely botched part of this case was the poor investigation surrounding the 3 toed white German Shepherd. The dog was present and two different crime scenes. They traced the dog back to a house near both crimes scenes yet they claim that there was no connection.
I doubt that dog was just roaming the neighborhood following EAR-ONS around from murder to murder. He obviously had some affiliation with the people who owned that dog. The dog was too comfortable with him and didn't freak out and run off after hearing loud gunshots.
I read on another website that the dog's owners were the Glasby family. The son Brett Glasby was a known drug dealer/ gang member and the family had law enforcement connections. In fact, Brett beat up a janitor who worked for one of the EAR-ONS murder victims ( he also had a connection to another EAR-ONS victim) and his father called a cop friend of his to hide Brett from the cops. This family had to have known the EAR-ONS.
- Good point, R211. Schizophrenic serial killers are typically classified as disorganized killers. Was the Son of Sam a paranoid schizophrenic or just pretending to be?
I also wondered why there seemed to be so many serial killers in the 60s and 70s. I wonder what was going on 20 or 30 years prior to that time period? Since the majority of psychopaths don't become serial killers, it the amjority of cases something has to happen to turn them into one. It's a mix of nature and nurture, genetic predisposition and environment.
The three toed dog thing made me think that the EAR was trying to frame someone else. Since Brett was known to be trouble, maybe EAR thought it would be easy to frame him. But the dog did seem comfortable with him and he would have to be familiar with Brett as well as that particular community in order to know that he was a drug dealer.
Unless he bought drugs from Brett and that's how he knew him. And the connections he had with at least two EAR victims makes Brett very suspicious. Maybe EAR was a member of Brett's gang.
The EAR is like a real life Freddy and Jason.
R212, what do you mean by MIC?
Can anyone else access, R216's link? I can't and I'd like to read it.
- Correct link for what R216 posted is here.
- Well, R221, a few witnesses said that he looked like a kid. However, kid could have simply meant young adult. Someone in their early/mid twenties could be thought of as just a kid to someone 50+.
A couple of the witnesses who said that he looked like a kid were the Visalia ransacking witnesses and this was about 2 or 3 years before the rapes. The just a kid description does fit the profile of the EAR being someone perceived as harmless.
Some of the witnesses also said that the EAR spoke rapidly and in a high pitched voice when excited. Rose, one of the victims who fought back ( and saved her daughter from being raped) as she was being bashed in the head by the EAR, later remarked that the EAR wasn't very strong and that she could have taken him down if not for his club. She wasn't bragging, she said it like it was odd that he was so weak. I'm not sure if any of this means anything, though.
- Thanks, R224!
- How the hell can't they find this guy? How hard is it to get together an excel spreadsheet from tax records of every male 6th grade teacher in California (or at least the relevant counties) from, say 1963 to 1973 or whatever?
He brought a fucking white DOG to some of these things? On a leash? It had to belong to either him or a relative! How hard is that to figure out.
Does the FBI have a cold case unit? Seriously how can someone rape dozens of people IN THEIR HOMES and murder 10 and not get caught?
- [quote]I read on another website that the dog's owners were the Glasby family. The son Brett Glasby was a known drug dealer/ gang member and the family had law enforcement connections. In fact, Brett beat up a janitor who worked for one of the EAR-ONS murder victims
R222, on what site did you read this?
- "He brought a fucking white DOG to some of these things? On a leash? It had to belong to either him or a relative! How hard is that to figure out"
You don't seem to understand how hard it is to catch serial killers. You think there's some sort of master list of everyone who ever owned a dog?
- Here's a similar thread, R228. I'm still looking for the exact thread.
- R223, Military Industrial Complex.
Once again, if you want to know why SOME of these guys do not get caught, or are pardoned--Henry Lee Lucas--by GWB, who doesn't pardon anyone, it's because they're not supposed to get caught. They even carry cards that tell law enforcement they're off limits. The reason that one policeman let Dahmer go even after finding him abusing a boy.
And Ted Bundy who said something like 'it's scary to think of all the killers, still out there, who have killed far more than me.' If Ted Bundy had not fucked up, to be sure, he'd be one of our political leaders today...probably a senator or governor
- "Once again, if you want to know why SOME of these guys do not get caught, or are pardoned--Henry Lee Lucas--by GWB, who doesn't pardon anyone, it's because they're not supposed to get caught. They even carry cards that tell law enforcement they're off limits. The reason that one policeman let Dahmer go even after finding him abusing a boy."
Nonsense. You actually believe that tinhat horseshit?
Most murderers usually get caught because the motive gives them away. If a woman is killed and she was going through a bitter custody battle at the time of her death, who do you look at? The husband. Most people are murdered by someone who knows them well. Serial killers and murderers who kill strangers or mere acquaintances are more likely to get away with it because there is no obvious motive connecting them to the victim or victims. Sometimes DNA gives them away if their DNA is in the system but that isn't the case for this guy.
- It's a good thing that this story is finally starting to gain some traction with the press.
It has always boggled my mind that such an awful psychopath should just be forgotten and not hunted-down like the beast he is. Unlike Zodiac, who I'm 99% convinced is dead (or if not, is severely elderly), I think this guy is alive and kicking and maybe not so old that he isn't still a threat.
I'm semi-with R92 in that I think he settled down with a wife (who didn't mind his micro-peen) and kids and lives in Irvine or thereabouts. I think his last murder of that girl in Irvine was a close call in his mind and he stopped because it was too close for comfort. This is all not based on evidence, but it's my hunch.
- [quote]if you want to know why SOME of these guys do not get caught, or are pardoned--Henry Lee Lucas--by GWB, who doesn't pardon anyone, it's because they're not supposed to get caught.
Lucas was NOT pardoned by GWB. Bush commuted his sentence to life imprisonment, which is what ultimately took place. Lucas died IN PRISON in 2001.
- I read on the AETV site that all but two of the couples terrorized by this evil being broke up shortly after the attacks. It has to be terrible to know that the person who did this to you and caused so much destruction has never been caught. This guy could easily be one of their neighbors.
- R221 I'm not an expert neither but some weeks ago a 13 year old boy was caught in my hometown (Munich) who severely attacked several women and tried to rape them. The police said though it's very unusual it still happens that the offender is just in his early teens
- Really, R235? Damn. I can't say that I'm surprised though. I think the men probably felt like failures because they couldn't protect their wives, girlfriends, and in some cases their kids. Therefore, they'd rather leave than face the humiliation, guilt, and shame. These things happen a lot when a man has a family but has either lost a job or can't find one. Rather than face the shame they leave/abandon the family and some go so far as to commit murder/suicide.
I'm glad it's back in the spotlight too, R233. I never heard about this case until seeing this thread and I spoke with several of my friends about it and they had never heard about the EAR either and we all have lived in SoCal for a while now.
I don't know, I just feel that unless this person was/is a loner with no life whatsoever someone has to know who he is. Someone had to have some suspicions. If all the sightings were him along with all the prowling/burglaries he committed you have to wonder if this man had a job. If he didn't, someone had to be supporting him unless he sold drugs or did some other illegal activity for money. He rarely ever took money from his victims and even when he did, he would only took part of the money, insignificant portions of like fifteen hundred dollars. Yet he always had different shirts, gloves and masks. K
- r221 I think the prevailing hypothesis is that when GSK was a teenager, he was the Visalia Ransacker/prowler - which is totally plausible. The guy obviously had a lot of practice at stealth breaking and entering and escaping by the time he started killing people. Given that the VR hit like hundreds of homes - that would indeed be the "best" kind of practice.
- [quote]Damn. I can't say that I'm surprised though. I think the men probably felt like failures because they couldn't protect their wives, girlfriends, and in some cases their kids. Therefore, they'd rather leave than face the humiliation, guilt, and shame.
Good post, r237. I wonder if this played into his motive. Like, if he couldn't maintain a relationship then he didn't want others to be able to either. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. Maybe he was nothing more than evil.
- I should asterisk my r238 post by saying that law enforcement doesn't officially link the VR and GSK together because there is no DNA. But informally, I believe they are considered to be the same person.
Here is a little animation of the Maggiore murders using google maps.
- [quote]Bush commuted his sentence to life imprisonment, which is what ultimately took place.
From George "I love the death penalty" Bush...that's a pardon.
- [quote]that's a pardon.
You can call it that if you want, but it wrecks your claim about certain people being off limits. If that were true, Lucas would have done little, if any time.
- What's with the gap timewise between the 2nd to last incident, and the very last incident in 1986?
- It's hard to know, R239. Many people have tried to establish connections between the EAR and his victims in an effort to glean or understand why he chose who he chose. Some say that there is a medical connection given that a number of victims worked in the medical field.
Some believe that the doctors were at one time his doctors, nurses his nurses, and the rest are people he saw during his frequent trips to the hospital for his sexual problems and possible type 1 diabetes. This claim is bolstered by the way the EAR appeared to go out of his way to kill the Harringtons whose neighborhood ( the way it was structured) didn't fit his strict M.O.. Mr. Harrington was a medical student and IIRC, his wife of 3 months at the time they were murdered was a nurse. These people also believed that he disguised his voice because he was familiar with the victims because of the medical connection.
All the men were professionals ( all but one I think) and in a poem believed to have been written by the EAR, he appeared to have disdain the typical 9-5 kind of job. So we had professional men with attractive wives or girlfriends. I read on the AETV site that the EAR possibly watched the couples have sex prior to the attacks. So it's possible that he hated these couples because he couldn't have what they had and he wanted to destroy it. I just wish the guy would get caught.
- Yes, R238, it is believed that the EAR and VR are the same person. He was a very experienced burglar by the time he became the EAR and the area and similar M.O. makes it a very strong possibility that it's the same person.
The Maggiore murders are interesting because of the way they were killed. They were shot dead right in the open. Most have speculated that the Maggiores saw him prowling without his mask on. But it seems like it was more than that. Another witness saw his face when they came home early and he ran out the back door. IIRC, Mr. Maggiore was in the military/Air Force. And there does seem to be a military connection concerning the EAR. I wonder if Mr. Maggiore recognized the EAR. Maybe they worked together.
I think about 5 or 6 years, R238. 1981/2-1987.
- [quote] And there does seem to be a military connection concerning the EAR. I wonder if Mr. Maggiore recognized the EAR. Maybe they worked together.
I have read this too, and it's the explanation that makes the most sense, considering the singularity of that attack—he didn't kill anyone else out in the open.
- I also wonder, how the hell did this guy prowl around entire neighborhoods' backyards without getting his junk bitten off by somebody's startled German Shepherd?
Or are California dogs so mellow that they can't be bothered?
- The creepy thing was that the dogs in the neighborhood barked very little when he was around. Some of the victims said their dogs appeared scared of him. I think he even killed one dog and blacked the eye of another.
As much as he prowled around he either subcounsiously wanted to be caught or he was aware that most people wouldn't take prowling seriously enough to call the police. Or either he was a cop or had a police scanner if they existed back then.
- Of course I don't think there is a "database of dogs."
But come on -- this asshole brought a fucking dog to a murder! How many white German shepards can there be??
- [quote] I think he even killed one dog and blacked the eye of another.
Is it possible to black the eye of a dog?
How would you know?
- Anyone interested in this should read john e. Douglas's book the anatomy of motive
- Actually, R251, I don't know. Maybe the eye was busted instead of blacked. I've read so many things about this case lately that I can't remember if I read that in the book or on the AETV site or some other site.
Thanks for the referral, R252. I read the book description and some of the reviews so of course I had to buy it. I never heard of the Tylenol killings and I have a tendency to immerse myself in creepy or interesting things I've never previously heard about, like this case. The book description mentions Andrew Cunnanan and I have an older friend who was friends with him (kind of like a FB thing) and hung out with him 2 days before the murders began and was supposed to meet with him the day of his first known murder, but couldn't because a family member died suddenly on that same day.
- Even if the eye isn't blackened, you can still certainly injure a dog's eye by punching it in the face, which is what GSK did to at least one dog (a poodle). OH yeah, and he killed the poodle that belonged to the Maggiores that they were walking with.
- I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but Michelle McNamara was on a simulcast today talking about this case.
I wish the 4chan people would devote themselves to this guy like they have the Boston bombers.
- Thanks for the link, R255. It's very insightful and made me think of a few things in new ways while reaffirming other things. I think he was someone believed to be harmless so no one ever suspected that it was him. I think he may have had a learning disability ( which doesn't mean dumb) and he stuttered. And that could have been why he was so preoccupied with the sixth grade.
I also felt that he was someone who felt emasculated in his day to day life. A couple of the victims mentioned that he was nervous but I believe one or two felt it was insincere. Victims also said that he didn't seem comfortable until they were tied up.
Although psychopaths process fear differently because it tends to take a lot to make them fearful, I believe that he really was nervous. As was mentioned in the video, he waited until the victims were sound asleep and then he'd lie to them in order to get them to cooperate. When one guy charged at him unexpectedly, he didn't do anything other than just stand there. He wanted to avoid physical confrontations before the victims were tied up and under his control. Another victim mentioned that he wasn't very strong. So he was bold but he wasn't THAT bold.
Also, for some reason I can hear the similarities between the 911 call and the "Is Ray There?" call in the video that I couldn't hear previously. Strange. I'm going to watch the clip again in case I missed something.
- It's insane that one of the most frightening and brutal serial killers is the least known. Him never being caught makes that fact even worse. With most serial killers you get a sense that if you're cautious you can avoid that fate. Don't work as a prostitute, don't go home with that cute, charming guy you just met at the club, don't walk around late at night by yourself (especially as a woman), don't use Craigslist for hookups or to sell things face to face. But this is the kind of serial killer you can't avoid. It's completely up to him.
I don't know if someone else already pointed this out or not, but there was at least one time in which the Zodiac used a similar "I just want money and food line" to get his victims to cooperate. He even had the female victim tie up the male. He also wore some homemade face mask. It's creepy how similar that is. Except unlike the Zodiac, GSK preferred taunting his victims rather than the police.
- "I wish the 4chan people would devote themselves to this guy like they have the Boston bombers."
Then they'd be pointing the finger at some totally innocent guy in his sixties.
- I was just checking back at the LA magazine site to read the comments on the story, and it seems that a few of the people who run/frequent the ear-ons.com site found the story and got pissed that someone else (McNamara) has brought the story new attention. They left some snotty comments, which make it obvious they didn't even bother to read the article before stamping their little feet. Quite amusing, really.
- I'm not terribly familiar with California. How close is this town in the linked story to the Golden State Killer's stomping grounds?
Also, have police looked at the possibility that the GSK changed his M.O. and has still been active all these years?
- Still here, posting from Budapest!
Read about it soon on my blog!
- R260, Valley Springs is about an hour from Sacramento, where the GSK prowled in the 1970s. I had car trouble there once, and it struck me as the sort of tiny place where everyone knows everyone and outsiders get noticed. It's not the sort of place an urban/suburban criminal would target.
And I see no reason to assume that the GSK is still in Northern California. He probably went elsewhere decades ago.