I'm a straight woman and I am tired of society always judging me based on looks. Why do you think women, gay or straight, are expected to look good? It is almost our fault if we look ugly.
Do you think there is a practical reason why we NEED to look good? Men are not judged based on their looks. They are judged more based on the size of their wallets, and what they can contribute to society.
I'm also tired of how society, especially straight men, expect me to behave. They expect all women to be interested in them, to give them attention and approval.
How about paying attention to ME, fuckers? I'm much more interesting that you are!
Hey babe, we need a little context here. Has something happened to you recently?
You realize this is a gay board, right?
Good post, OP. I agree.
I'm tired of trolls.
What the fuck do I care what society says? I'm in charge of me. You are in charge of you. Do whatever the fuck you want. It's your life.
I'm tired, as a gay man, of straight women expecting me to 'notice' them all the time.
I'm also tired of how off-hand and easily dismissive they are of men they don't consider immediately attractive. That ghastly sort of 'in your dreams' attitude.
I'm tired of how they push up real close to me when I'm standing in line to pay for groceries.
Though they'd be appalled if some strange man did the same to them.
They like to think they hold all the cards.
OP make more and your looks won't count either. Just be thin.
Mens looks do count also but women are allowed so many tools to adorn and improve themselves, they're expected to use it. Men wish all of this was acceptable for males.
[quote] Why do you think women, gay or straight, are expected to look good?
In part, because other women are bitchy about looks and clothes and image.
I'm tired of old, whiny, bithcy women who are really only good at complaining. I work with many, and they continually remind of me of what I should not aspire to be in 25 years.
OP = Katharine Hepburn, a free minded, high society woman who isn't going to let anyone tell her she can't fuck two men at the same time.
It's weird to me personally I think men are more naturally beautiful. Take a look at an average man 5 minutes after he's woken up compare to average woman.
I'm in love with r6.
You look prettier when your big maw is closed.
[quote]I'm a straight woman..
Why are you here, OP? What is it about you and a few others who absolutely insist on making yourself a nuisance to gay men, to troll places both virtual and in life where you are clearly not invited, not wanted and where your existence only destroys the spirit of the place/event?
Nobody here, not one person whom this site was created for and by, care about what you're "tired" of.
Seek out your own kind OP, stop leaching off the lives and places of the gay community and go away. You're a miserable, horrible person for it and you're only making others miserable by your presence.
The female of most species is the plainer one. In the natural state (just walking out of a shower) not so good: lank hair, short, pallid.
Women think they wear make-up, jewelry and heels to look more feminine. But it's actually to make you taller and more colorful- like a man. Remember shoulder pads?
Read some feminist literature, OP, and then choose not to care. Or do, it's your choice.
Or if you can't be bothered with that...see R6
You're so gullible, R17.
"Do you think there is a practical reason why we NEED to look good?"
Uh, because we can see you?
OP, When I dress hot and try to look good, I get nothing but grief and dissing from other women, whom I've learned to ignore. I've always competed with myself and not with them. As long as your job does not require a certain standard of beauty and grooming, do only what makes you happy, as there will always be haters.
Speaking for all the other straight women on DL, nobody cares. Take it to iVillage.
This needs to be on iVillage. I didn't pay $18 to deal with these Ladies Home Journal problems.
No matter how sexy I dress my husband still won't touch me. What am I doing wrong?
I'm a straight man, and I'm tired of how society wont let me fall in love with a gay man!
Sounds like R17 would be a miserable person regardless of who was on this site.
Just remember if you were raised by a low life father and you let everyone use you and the nephews ignore you, disabled people, dying people they are less than nothing.
Very Very pissed .Daughter Sister Aunt.
I am straight woman who really enjoys DL, it's such a witty, informative, interesting place. I had never heard of iVillage before and checked it out, but it is SATURATED with ads and that makes it unpleasant.
OP, there are many people of all sexual persuasions who don't take care with their looks. In my opinion, people should do what they can to look healthy, clean, and well-groomed, especially in professional settings. Just try to look YOUR personal best. No need to be a glamour girl or super handsome stud, people relate more to others who are down to earth and friendly, not super glam (unless you're in Hollywood).
[quote]I'm tired, as a gay man, of straight women expecting me to 'notice' them all the time.
At least some of that has got to be imagined by you.
Agree R7. Happens all the time. I also hate that women are here on DL. Why can't they leave men alone? Their obsession is beyond weird. Women need to get a life.
[quote]At least some of that has got to be imagined by you.
I guess it's too much of a stretch for your own imagination.
Which is fine.
R32, People are not always looking at you.
My colleague can wear lovely clothes, far more adventurous than the shitty shirt and tie I am expected to wear- if I came in in shorts I would probably be on a warning, but she can wear skirts so short you can almost see her pussy.
She can cackle about man-flu, men with hairy backs, small cocks, small pay, fat men (when it's women, it's 'curvy', or 'voluptuous') and preen herself on how she can allegedly multi task and cheap dates who don't know how to wine and dine a woman.
Really, do move on from the 70's, and if you can't, just completely reject gender expectations and be a strong and free bull dyke or STFU.
Straight women are judged on their looks because straight men want to breed.
Men are judged on their wallets because women want someone to provide for their baby after they've been bred.
Gay people don't have this problem.
Okay, yes we do, we judge on looks all the time, but it's for different reasons. We want to splash our load on someone attractive.
They're clearly not looking at you, R33, as you obviously can't imagine such a thing
I'm sorry if my post made you feel jealous.
I posted to illustrate the double standards.
Women complain about men hitting on them all the time, but think they can be as aggressively sexual as they want.
They're can also act very put out if the man they find attractive is gay.
I know OP, it's just awful that everyone expects good looking women to behave as well as everyone else. Everyone knows, or should know by the time they reach adulthood, that good looking women have a free pass to act whatever way they want because they are good looking. People who don’t (or won’t) understand this are the ugly ones who are just jealous of female beauty.
R31, keep trolling. I'll keep FF'ing you.
Also, it's a myth that women care less about good looks in a man.
Straight women SPIN in the presence of a very good looking, sexy man and trust me he's never going to be alone if he doesn't want to be. NOT. EVER. However much of a failure he is financially. However much of a creep he is. Whatever his failings.
It's a good question, OP. I'm older now; was pretty, slightly overweight most of my life and hideously fat now. I don't even want to THINK of what people think when they see me; I AM trying hard to lose weight for health reasons.
I was always shy; my mother and aunt would tell me I was pretty and I didn't completely believe them; took to age 34 and friends complimenting me (who hadn't seen me in years) for it to sink in. Again, "somewhat pretty" - NOT beautiful. After 37, it all started to fade, hee-hee!
ANYway: again, you pose a good question. In nature, I have always read it's the MALE of the species who is more stunning-looking: lions, etc.; "peacocks".
I wonder if some of nature carriers over with humans: any way you slice it, woman are overall, "weaker"(I know everyone will hate that word; I'm sure I could find a better one, sorry) - smaller, less body mass, less physical strength.
SO in nature the "weaker" animal seeks nurture from the strong? Women need men for protection (in the past; the feminist "women need men like a fish needs a bicycle", hee-hee! is more apropos in many ways), perhaps? THere are, it seems, many more women than men? So women instinctively want to "look their best" to capture a man?
(the "??" are 'cause I don't really know.)
I have read - sorry, this will sound negative - magazine articles that "pretty people" in ge3neral, have more success in life. There have been experiments where babies are given photo albums of "good-looking" people, and the babies, laugh, smile, coo, and point more to the "pretty" pix. Again, this isn't MY opini, but I have read about it.
Why are there beauty pageants? Why do women get all "gussied up" for proms, going out; hell, their WEDDINGS?
Am getting off track, sorry. Perhaps men (straight ones) by and large feel - quite likely subconciously - that women are not their physical equal; they can stand the thought of women being their INTELLECTUAL or wage-matching equal, so:
A woman might just as well have SOME damn thing going for here, ergo: to look good.
Is better these days then in the past, I would say, based on watching "Mad Men" and the recent "Vegas".
Sorry to go on and on but this is the best question I've seen on DL in a while!
R38, Being honest is not trolling. I guess I'll need to keep ff you.
[quote]I'm tired of how society expects me to behave
lol OP, I wish you could be black for a day!
r17 is an embarrassment to gay men.
I will never understand the very small segment of the gay male population who hate women. I don't know where that stems from.
If anything you'd think that these types would rage against heterosexual males who have oppressed them, rather than misdirect their "velvet rage" towards women who have also been subjugated by hetero males.
I understand why a woman's presence in a gay bathhouse or pick-up bar would be irksome, but on an online message board? Who cares? I've always seen Datalounge as an all around entertainment and lifestyle board with a gay slant but everyone was welcomed. To sequester yourself away from everyone that isn't like you is exactly what the heteros do to us. Why would you ever want to perpetuate that kind of nonsensical intolerance???
R36, None of the aggressively sexual women I can think of fit your description. We must simply be from different societies.
Honestly, your exaggeration just made it sound like you're either hanging out in the wrong places or transferring way more of your traumatic experiences than it's worth for your well-being.
There are gays who give out a snappy, defensive attitude to everyone who triggers scorn in them, when they may not otherwise even be noticed.
R31 I wish gay men would stop staring at my breasts.
[quote]Datalounge as an all around entertainment and lifestyle board with a gay slant
No, the tag line is "DataLounge get your fix of gay gossip, news and pointless bitchery."
I welcome anyone who wants to post, but it's not a board for women who 'love the gays'.
OP if you want to get some positive encouragement, don't waste your time on these shitty mother-hating queens who can't get past the fact they got stuck with a ridiculous floppy weiner, an unattractive lisp, and gay face - instead of beautiful ample breasts, a tight vagina, and brains.
[quote]beautiful ample breasts, a tight vagina, and brains.
You met OP? Tight vagina is important to you?
Straight men do themselves no favors when they marry and breed with women based on their looks. And ALL women lose their looks, or rather, lose the look they had when they were younger. I'm not saying they lose their attractiveness, not at all--and some become more attractive as they age--it's just that they don't look like the same woman they were when young.
So what's most important in picking a mate that will give you good-looking offspring--an attractive MAN. A fit man, to be precise.
Everyone inherits their father's physique. Ladies, go for that. And kindness. And smarts. And an ability to make a few bucks.
Why would a woman need a man to make a few bucks? Are women STILL relying on men to support them? Straight men to need to turn that shit around.
[quote]So what's most important in picking a mate that will give you good-looking offspring--an attractive WOMAN. A beautiful woman, to be precise.
[quote]Everyone inherits their mothers's looks. Gentlemen, go for that. And kindness. And smarts. And an ability to cook.
As men get older, they start looking like women. I didn't say pretty ones. See:
Mickey Rourke (a fugly woman)
etc etc etc
Most of these guys above were once super cute. Odd huh?
Straight men will never, R50. The vast majority of them don't like women to make more money than they do.
No woman needs a male gold digger--if he can't make money he will lean on women.
It's all too common these days, and I blame it on plastics in the environment.
Men and women still long for traditional families, where the men are the breadwinners and the women stay home with the children.
There is nothing wrong with that.
the only problem with your thesis is that men are better looking than women.
Not the ones I know R53. They'd love it. Besides it doesn't matter what a man wants or doesn't want. Can't believe women are still trying to live through men.
R17 is a self-loathing bottom bitch.
This site wasn't created specially for gay men, but for GAY GOSSIP. Get the difference? it says "DataLounge get your fix of gay gossip, news and pointless bitchery."
I don't see it says that it is "for gay men".
Please don't hate straight women that much, unless you've been brainwashed by your gay guru that your needy butthole actually came out from a butthole instead of vagina.
Did you know the reason men make good soldiers and followers is because they will do exactly what they are told? A woman will ask, "why?".
Why are you asking this on DL where gay men expect all women and men to look gorgeous?
Has Tig Notaro sued anyone lately?
Well, a lot of people are looking for a free ride in life, R56. That's true.
But I have yet to see a straight man who doesn't want to feel financially superior, even if just slightly, to the woman he's with, regardless of what he says. I mean, there are very passive types of guys who are looking for a woman who supports them and tells them what to do. But while these types of guys will always exist, I don't think they're becoming more common.
And OP, existing in society and its expectations isn't going to get easier, so you might as well do some therapy to help you accept it.
R17 = Lil Poopy. Poor thing.
How now, frausow?
I am judged too.
Some gay men have this issue too I believe. Good topic.
"Why can't they leave men alone? Their obsession is beyond weird. Women need to get a life."
Okay, no Datalounge regular has the right to tell another to "get a life"!
We're here, aren't we.
This is a good point, and I tend to agree with you, OP but to play devil's advocate, if we weren't expected to behave in any certain way, what's to stop masters from leading their slaves around on a leash (in front of the children, gasp!), nudists to sit in restaurant seats, fat people who wear spandex, drunks who urinate in front of the grocery store, etc. In other words, where do we draw the line?
R59, It doesn't matter what a gay man expects. It doesn't matter what a straight man expects. Good grief there is life beyond a man.
Yes, R68, it's called Hell.
Men do the judging.
Does anyone here wish that more people were willing to look beyond society's expectations, and look for what is truly valuable and what gives them the greatest chance of personal happiness?
Because that's not how most people go about their relationships, that's for damn sure.
I have many gay friends and I have taken the trouble to accept them, but the hatred of women who want to be free makes me question why I bothered.
I'm especially interested in those nether-years when men become estrogenic and women become manly.
Men gets the big bellies and become sentimental or, complete bitches and cranks.
Women in those years become devil-may-care and many turn lesbian although, they all seem to get the dyke hair-do's at about 50.
Women seem to get more brittle and men seem to get more sensitive and caring. Then it seems, they don't make good matches for reach other and stay together for their teenage children.
Women start to get that shoulder slouch and hump-back and men get fat calves and tittie-boobies.
It's all so hideous that one shudders to think that these beasts actually still fuck.
Acording to this thread R71. Women live their life by what men want. I would never live my life that way. It's beyond pathetic.
I like that you have developed an INNER LIFE that is rich and abundant. Like I've just posted, our bodies and minds change so dramatically in our fifties-sixties that the smart ones use their heads and think for themselves. And why not? what's there to lose?
Many men in America start to look like giant toddlers with the baseball caps and short-pants and big bellies. You are smart not to sell your soul to be with one of those beasts.
Chickie, do you like
George Carlin? His videos really tell it like it is.
R73's post is fascinating.
I've read and re-read it several times.
In fact it deserves a thread of its own.
"they all seem to get the dyke hair-do's at about 50."
Because the hair thins and needs the appearance of body, r73. Also, the longer hair is, the more it pulls the face down, visually. Long hair is a young look, on both sexes.
R77, Okay, then why is the pubic hair still "going to town"?
OP = Adele.
One of my greatest triumphs on DL was having my post mistaken for Tig Notaro's.
OP, take it to Jezebel.
"I have many gay friends and I have taken the trouble to accept them, but the hatred of women who want to be free makes me question why I bothered."
Taken the trouble to accept? You bothered?
Having gay friends sounds like an effort to you, not a pleasure. Haven't you learned by now that any group is made up of a myriad of unique individuals, some idiots, some brilliant, some handsome, some dumpy, some gracious, some rude? Don't judge the majority by a few. That's what bigots do.
I'm sorry but other women are the worst. I work at a company and we ave some ugly female employees who the
Men adore. Hell one if them is fat too. Of course other ern say really awful things and treat them badly. The ugly girls are mean to the pretty ones too. I guess growing up a woman in our society
Makes you insane?
Op is a butch lesbian trolling!!! if you hate men so much, why do adopt the most manly traits to emulate. Why do masculine gay "women" equate femininity to weakness and masculinity to strength ?
R59, So why do gay men expect all women to look gorgeous?
What's with the generalizing on this thread? I look to gay men as safe platonic friends, with mutual non-sexual interests. I like that they don't crudely hit on me like many undesirable heteros often do.
r85, no one male or female is hitting on your ugly masculine butch ass!!~
I am a femme les by the way who looks and acts like a woman
OP I'm a lesbian and I agree with you but honestly ignore the stereotypes and expectations and DO WHAT YOU WANT! No one is holding a gun to your head. But sadly since you are going to date straight men I feel sorry for you.
But miracles happen, right?
R86, Excuse me but I look the polar opposite of butch. I'm also used to total strangers complimenting me on my extremely firm, rounded ass, especially when I work in the industry.
Attractive people would have to repudiate their Ace in rthe hole for the greater good to end the bias, while the unattractive would have to admit they're unattractive.
Attractive women will say you're just bitter because you're ugly, and everyone else won't care becuaser...you're ugly.
 I wouldn't be throwing stones when you obviously live in a glass house.
[quote]Remember Aids and who stood with you when no else would?
I have been amused and repelled to have known several unnatractive straight men who think they deserve only the most beautiful women. I think, "Dude, have you looked in the mirror lately?"
R they know they are ugly but think all other men are undeserving (jerks) and they are frog princes when they are just fugly frogs.
[quote] Remember Aids and who stood with you when no else would?
This for the most part was brave lesbians alongside other gay men, for anyone who remembers the truth. The lesbians/bi women were the women who were volunteering and working in hostels for their gay brothers.
OP = Lens Denham
[Quote]OP = Lens Denham
r83, growing up an effeminate gay man causes psychosis
r36 is a delusional fag who flames to high heaven!!! women like masculinity!!!!
Referring back to R17, you question why a straight woman is posting. Isn't it just as bad as a straight board discriminating against gay posters as it is to be a gay board doing the same to straight, but sympathetic,posters? Isn't Datalounge above that nonsense?
R80, you wish. In your dreams. I will now sue your ASSS too.
The real Tig Notaro who is also the OP of this thread
Dear ugly Straight woman,
You don't need to tolerate this negativity. Call my lawyer, Allison Hart. The law firm is Lavely and Singer. She will send threatening letters to the webmaster and this harrassement will be deleted immediately.No one needs to be so abused like this.
R102...not sure if your comment was directed at mine, but I never said I was a straight woman. In fact, I am a guy who happens to be bisexual and am not irritated as you surmise. I am just intellectually curious about this double standard. Cheers.
[quote]Everyone inherits their father's physique.
What the fuck are you smoking, R49? The genetic lottery is a total crap shoot that inherently favors neither the genes of the mother OR the father. From a purely physical characteristic based standpoint, you have an equal chance of looking just like your mom's side of the family, just like your dad's, just like an even mix of both, and everything in between. It's pretty clear to me when I look in the mirror which characteristics I inherited from each parent. Neither one really "won out" over the other. (And sadly, I DEFINITELY don't have my father's physique, which is unfortunate because I'd be many inches taller if I did. I'm short like my mom's side of the family, although I inherited most of my facial features from my dad's.)
Obvious misogynist troll is obvious. Can't believe so many tards have fallen for it....
I can't believe there's a Tig Notaro troll here.
Who the fuck is this ugly Tig Notaro that the same trolls keep trying to make happen? Nobody cares about such an ugly butch manly-looking thing. Attractive, hot MEN are the only people that matter on DL. Keep up people!
Females certainly do care about a male's looks. At least teenage and young girls do. How else do you explain all of the boy-crazy tweens/teens gushing over heartthrob after heartthrob? I have two nieces, and when they're around their other friends, geezus, all they talk about is about whether Boy A from school is cuter than Boy B or C.
They seriously talk about boy's looks more than I ever hear my nephew and his friends talk about girls.