People will say that I had a hot ass, but I didn't live forever.
A long sleep.
Sad sad sad that so many gay people are brainwashed by the atheist left
And you know what you believe r9 just how?
No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey, rain curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass. And then you see it: white shores and beyond. A far green country, under a swift sunrise.
*Giggles at R9* We're the ones who are brainwashed are we? I've been close to death a couple of times. It was a very pleasant, comfortable nothingness - no dreams, no thoughts, no consciousness - nothing.
The same think what happened before I was born - nothing!
And it only took nine posts for a "what do you believe in" thread to be derailed by a "my beliefs are better than your beliefs" hate troll.
Congratulations Hate Troll. You are what you are.
I agree with R1.
I think religious people and those who cling to the idea of some magical afterlife are self-indulgent, and not very serious people.
This coming from one of the most self-absorbed women on the celebrity landscape.
A year after we die, we're exactly what we were a year before we were born, though the different atoms that made up our bodies throughout our lifetimes will have moved.
My remains will be returned to the soil. Then, once my friends and family are gone, I will be forgotten.
And I'm OK with that.
Never believed it before. Do now. There's just too much evidence for reincarnation. I'm fascinated by Stevenson's work in India with kids who go off and find their old families. We're surrounded by reminders, like the seasons -- Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter. Then it all begins again.
Pretty much what R1 said. A lot of it, (it being the veil) is a product of how we're designed, or disabled to perceive time in it's entirety. We perceive and quantify life and time as discontinuous units, when the truth is everything is connected in a complex and fascinating way.
for atheists they are correct you will be worm food
R20- "Evidence" for reincarnation? Links, please.
Consciousness continuity, perhaps!
"Do now. There's just too much evidence for reincarnation."
Nothing. Why are we so vain to think that we'll go on and on?
"I believe we go through several lifetimes to learn lessons we need to learn."
Who decides on the lessons we need to learn? Why are 'lessons' even necessary?
[quote]There's just too much evidence for reincarnation.
Great point, R20. It's like how, when you multiply a bunch of prime numbers together, you can take the result and determine the prime numbers you started with. Or how, if you mix yellow and red you get orange, but if you mix red and blue, you don't.
My hope is a somekind of wonderful afterlife.
My fear is there is nothing at all.
I'm up an up in the air agnostic who is wired to believe there will be another chapter after death. I think we slip into another dimension that exists all around us when we die but who really knows.
There is an ongoing debate among physicists regarding this topic. Some say the more they learn the more they believe life after death.
The Discovery Channel had a program about scientists' debate with Morgan Freeman narrating.
I believe in the sacred understanding that this question can never be answered. At least not during life I find that uncertainty spiritually exquisite.
[r33]: I agree. I also think there's a possibility that our consciousness moves into a different "dimension" or whatever you can call it. Worst case: we just die and our consciousness does as well. Either way, it'll be an interesting trip.
Why is it so many queens here are atheists? Oh, ye, of such little faith, do some research and you just might become more spiritual,
R37, why type of research do you suggest? On what topics?
You don't "go" anywhere as we were never here. Your body is a surrogate - we are all part of the same thing and when alive are just different versions of ourselves from within the whole. When we die the two way transmitter turns off and we return back to the whole - then may or may not come back as a person. Only the bravest among us live here, most are to afraid to experience it. When you learn to love, do kind things, respect, help etc. it brings your being closer to your authentic self which is deep inside of you - this authentic self is what is actually part of the whole.
Why do I want to be "spiritual"?
r6 That song is beautiful!
I like first-hand evidence of Dr. Ian Stevenson for evidence. Google his case studies. Like I said, they're fascinating.
Going to hell. Probably.
A big fat nothing happens. You're dead, that's it, it's over. We are so arrogant in thinking that we are so important that we must somehow continue once our body dies.
Not tonight, Berta... Not tonight...
-- closes window --
I hope I don't have to come back! Didn't I suffer enough this time around? If there's reincarnation, then the Earth is hell.
I believe in a Higher Power. But I don't believe in "heaven." I think we just end.
I've read a few recent books about near death experiences: "Dying To Be Me" by Anita Moorjani; "To Heaven and Back" by Mary C. Neal, M.D.; "Proof Of Heaven" by Eben Alexander, M.D. I sure hope they're right, but my bitch sister single-handedly makes me doubt the idea that we are all part of one central, all-loving source.
My brain will shut down and I will lose consciousness and then as the rest of my body dies and begins to decompose along with that brain, "I," the human being with a unique psychology and memory, will no longer exist. Which is a mercy for everybody.
As for my soul or whatever, if it goes on living in heaven or through reincarnation or whatever, it will no longer be "me" but something very different, and good luck to it.
I'll go to that big ol' Clinique counter in the sky. Toodles!
When I die, you will all cease to exist...
The atheist right-wing kooks are the worst. They use religion as a tool to control the masses, spread hatred, and destroy resources. There god is money.
As if this really needs to be explained....
" "I," the human being with a unique psychology and memory, will no longer exist. Which is a mercy for everybody"
No, I think it might all be stored in the universe that could be a giant quantum computer.
[quote]do some research and you just might become more spiritual
If you want to know about God, you might want to talk to an atheist...
Please forgive this but English is not my premiere language,
but I think if string theory is correct, and the mind of god is the cosmic music that harmonized hyperspace, that all existence vibrates, then we might just move a tiny fraction and enter into a whole new dimension, we are sound, yes. I think in truth we like to act as if we know so much, everything we know could be wrong.
The universe is so beyond out level of thought, I think we always have existed, I think we always will. I think I will move on to another level of being, a new sound, a new vibration, is that reincatnation? I don't know?
Maybe in 100 years the serch for the - metaphisical? right word? will be sciences most ardent serch.
Sometimes I listen to Oscar Peterson, hymn to freedom, and there is a point where he is hurting, it feels this sound, this music is so vast and it is flowing through him like a tidel, using his body, and the phyiscality of the human body cannot wholly accommodate the sound, this cosmic sound, this sovereign being, rushing through him, using him. That I think is most when I say, yes they is something more, something beyond us, something cosmic that we cannot understand.
I think when my body ends, I hope I will be able to be part of that sound. and move through dimensions.
We Die. Our bodies turn to dust. End of story. Hasta la Vista, baby.
We start talking to Sylvia Browne.
Non-existence... just like before I was born. I won't have any clue, though, because there will be no "me" there to realize I don't exist. There will be no "me" to worry about anything, to think or consider anything, to be right or wrong about anything, or to mourn my lost life. There won't even be any "me" to sit around experiencing "nothingness". I simply won't exist at all.
Are any atheists scared of the thought of life after death. Sam Harris, seems to have a pathological fear of an afterlife, did he do some bad shit?
The notion of an 'after-life' has got to be one of the more ridiculous notions ever invented by anyone. This insistence that people understand and know the by-definition unknowable, is so absurd.
Why would anyone believe in such a thing? Because someone told you it was true? How do THEY know? What proof or evidence is there of any such thing, beyond fables and made-up stories?
Just because you WANT to believe something, that does not make it true.
Why would anyone be scared of death? I don't get that at all.
Now, I'm a bit afraid of DYING... transitions can be painful. But death? Why fear that? I honestly don't understand it at all.
Here's the thing about avoiding harsh truths (like the fact that there is no afterlife): Avoiding them does not make them any less true, or any less harsh.
If it is unknowable r61, how can you be sure it doesn't exist?
Maybe you're atheism is as much personal revelation as another persons faith.
I don't specially hope for an afterlife, and assume that death will be a slow or swift shutting down to oblivion.
What I don't do either though is dismiss every single account of 'afterlife' experience I've ever heard or read. Many such stories aren't attention-seeking or wishful thinking or moralising to induce fear; they are 'just' personal accounts of human experience, which often give pause. I don't believe that every such account I've ever heard is a lie.
Since I've never had any such personal experience (yet), I basically stick with default oblivion. But secondary examples, and I suppose the possibility of a primary experience, mean I'm open to persuasion.
I close my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment's gone
All my dreams pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
Oh, ho, ho
Now, don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away, and all your money won't another minute buy
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
Dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
There is consciousness which is what observes what is going on in those moments where the "me" is not fully occupying all of our attention. We are that consciousness and that endures after death. Everything is a part of consciousness. The part of us that reacts to the world in negative ways is the "me" that is caught up in ego concerns and feels separate and alien from most of what is around them.
Death is shedding the little "me" that worries, hates, fears, dreads etc. Then consciousness merges consciousness and is.
All our times have come
Here but now they're gone
Seasons don't fear the reaper
Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain..we can be like they are
Come on baby...don't fear the reaper
Baby take my hand...don't fear the reaper
We'll be able to fly...don't fear the reaper
Baby I'm your man...
Valentine is done
Here but now they're gone
Romeo and Juliet
Are together in eternity...Romeo and Juliet
40,000 men and women everyday...Like Romeo and Juliet
40,000 men and women everyday...Redefine happiness
Another 40,000 coming everyday...We can be like they are
Come on baby...don't fear the reaper
Baby take my hand...don't fear the reaper
We'll be able to fly...don't fear the reaper
Baby I'm your man...
Love of two is one
Here but now they're gone
Came the last night of sadness
And it was clear she couldn't go on
Then the door was open and the wind appeared
The candles blew then disappeared
The curtains flew then he appeared...saying don't be afraid
Come on baby...and she had no fear
And she ran to him...then they started to fly
They looked backward and said goodby...she had become like they are
She had taken his hand...she had become like they are
Come on baby...don't fear the reaper
Blue Oyster Cult, 1976
[quote]Maybe you're atheism is as much personal revelation as another persons faith.
Tired argument expressed with atrocious grammar.
Not believing in an invisible sky-friend is entirely different from believing in one. Don't try to lower us to your level by saying they're parallel. They're not.
Saying "There may be things I don't understand about what happens after death" is entirely different from saying "There are mansions of glory where Jesus (99 virgins, Zeus, whatever nonsense is bought by the sheep of the day) are waiting for me."
Different. Don't conflate them, thanks. Isn't it interesting that atheists would almost NEVER try to gain the upper hand in an argument by saying atheism and religion are actually the same thing, but it's something religitards say all the time? Why do you suppose that is?
Why is it that imaginary god(s) always seem to demand faith and belief? Why has there never been a god that didn't care whether or not people believed or worshipped, obeyed or donated to the church?
My Dad died four times before death finally caught him.
He said there is just nothing -- no light at the end of the tunnel, no dead friends and family to greet him, no color, no sound, just nothing.
The illusion that there was a distinct "me" will simply shimmer away, and my body will disintegrate back into differently arranged atoms.
R58 Sylvia Browne scares me! Her voice, face, and "ability" seem to be sourced from evil itself.
R71, Well I did say that English is not my first language in my previous posts, but I guess pettiness, is just one of your natural traits, yes?
And constant using the words, an invisible sky fairy, is a tired and a stupid statement since most people here do not believe god is a man with long white beard in the clouds. But you just have too use that in order to ridicule and debase anyone that is not being athiest.
you like many athiests, feeling they are beyond reproach, I shall not dare argue with someone as perfect as you.
You win, I shall convert to your way of thinking now. Thank you.
Also how else do you wish I behave? Any other way of life you live that you would like me to follow? Sorry if I have done things or lived a life that you don't like or disappoints you, since you seem to think I should live in ways to make you happy and ways you approve of.
I don't know.
I wonder, sometimes, how is it that a pile of meat suddenly becomes animated, as we are?
And how is it that, at some arbitrary point in time, that meat begins to rot and turn to dust?
I suppose every culture has tried to answer that enigma. It's thought-provoking to think about.
[quote]Also how else do you wish I behave? Any other way of life you live that you would like me to follow?
Yes. Now that I've changed you for the better, please devote all the energy you once devoted to believing in invisible sky fairies and disagreeing with atheists into protecting the world from the stupidity, prejudice, and violence of your religious former brethren. Thanks!
We created the concept of the afterlife to escape the psychic trauma of having to accept what an eternity of non-existence actually means. But just because I as an individual don't exist anymore doesn't mean that it's the end of everything. The energy and mass that were used to sustain my body are returned back to the earth and recycled in the great cycle of life. The people closely related to me will continue to carry on some of the stuff that made me, me in their lineage.
It's the height of narcissm to think that any one of us as individuals can survive death.
Please r77 stop being a precious twat. I'm an atheist, well I call myself a humanist, but it's the same thing. Humanist tend to be a little less zealous about their non belief.
I cannot conceive of life after death, but I have no issues with a person who does, and I am not foolish enough to think that an atheist world would be any less violent. There would still be war over land and borders and race and cultures, still hatred and prejudice and violence and senselessness. Also You know there are many, many good decent religious people, you know that, you know there are many religious people that are kind, generous, decent moral peaceful people.
Sadly, if we were all atheists, there would be little difference, so if someone wants to believe in God or a religion I don't care, I accept them and their belief, even if I don't agree with it and I defend their right to practice it. And I am fully aware of all the contradictions that statement is loaded with, but my liberalism will not be contaminated or changed by someone's intolerance.
I am a true liberal, I believe the best society is a tolerant, diverse inclusive community.
There is no more need to fear being dead than falling asleep at night. You won't know the difference.
To sleep perchance to dream. There's the rub.
[quote]You know there are many, many good decent religious people, you know that, you know there are many religious people that are kind, generous, decent moral peaceful people.
Always trying to tell me what I know. How shall I put it? Such people seem to me in very short supply, and they're awfully quiet.
[quote]I am not foolish enough to think that an atheist world would be any less violent.
Hard to say. I think it's certainly worth a try. It might end up being an equally violent atheist world but even so: that seems a small improvement since there'd be a new element of honesty, reality and truthfulness, which are better than lies.
Moreover, I think it's worth a shot... and I suspect there would be far less violence. Study up on the statistics of violent crimes committed in religious countries vs countries with more atheists and this seems to be suggested and supported by the evidence.
[quote] I believe the best society is a tolerant, diverse inclusive community.
Which of course would be utterly meaningless without being inclusive of direct questioning of the usually unquestioned and unquestionable realm of ludicrous "religious beliefs." Natch.
We're not our bodies. They are merely containers containing energy, enabling us to exist in a three dimensional physical plane.
When the body dies, it's time to move on to another dimension and another existence. It's nothing to be afraid of and is perfectly natural.
A few days after my death, I shall begin to rot.
I will finally meet Bonnie Franklin.
Of course, r82, but we don't have to be a dick about it. Here is lecture by the brilliant Phil Plait, that I think every atheist, skeptic or humanist should watch.
Perhaps, R72, your dad got nothing because that's what he either deserved or anticipated. And, uhhh, you actually don't know what he got, do you?
It looks interesting, and I look forward to watching when I get a chance, r86, thanks.
Meanwhile, looking at the title, I do have a suspicion what the thrust of the video is about, and I would preemptively assert that after centuries of witch-burnings, executions, inquisitions, holy wars, murders, and oppression there's often plenty of space, reason and purpose for being a dick.
Either way, I look forward to watching.
People will believe anything that makes them think they can cheat death.
Dr. Eben had an interview with Oprah and it seemed odd that he said the afterlife's message is that God loves you unconditionally, etc. And, he revealed that his mother put him up for adoption and he had a lot of issues with feeling not wanted so that connection seemed a little too obvious to me. Plus, he said he was flying on a giant butterfly through an incredible geographic space. Girl, please.
There is no "cheating" of death, R89. The body is designed to die when we no longer need it anymore.
Energy can be neither created nor destroyed.
What does death feel like?
I'm an atheist so I don't believe in heaven or hell. But I do firmly believe the life force (soul) moves on to another reality. Where or what that is, I don't know. But at my age I'm sure to find out sooner than later.
Well, the concept of the soul or spirit is found in every civilization through-out man across the globe. If one was to track 1000s of miles into the rain forest and discover a tribe untouched my modern man, they too would have a concept or spirits or religion. So either religion or at the very least of the concept of the soul is an inert evolutionary adaption or we really do have a soul.
If it is something place in us by evolution, that means evolution could have a design, since it would be difficult to imagine evolution known to enlighten us the the concept of a soul. If it did however, and the soul is just a feeling placed by evolution, then there must be a good reason for it being there. Is it safety clip? Or is evolution a formula created by a universal architect?
Maybe we do have a soul, maybe there is something more - maybe- maybe - maybe. Maybe we should all try to be good people and live a good moral life and leave a life after death 'til after our death.
I'll just die and be gone. I think some people won't let go and hang around as ghost but I can't see why they would want to.
True, R91, but you seem to be counting your "soul" as energy. There no evidence for this except belief, and belief is evidence of nothing. The chemical processes that provide the energy you speak of, your "soul", will shut down and you will be dead, dead, dead.
Sorry, but you're going to die, for real. There is no evidence otherwise.
When I was little I thought when I died that I would be a cloud, not floating on the clouds but actually be one. I thought I could rain on all the mean people.
Now I just think we are gone.
R96, but what is death? Since our bodies are completely regenerated on a cellular level every 9 months, aren't we constantly dying? I mean, if we are nothing more than our bodies, that is.
R98, the cellular regeneration you're speaking of is maintenance. When an individual component of your body dies, it's replaced in a healthy body by another component of the same type and function. Cell death (a critical part of a functioning body) is not personal death, since your genetic pattern and personal memories remain the same.
Baring scientific evidence to the contrary, your identity is the result of the *functioning* of a human body, not the specific set of components that carry out those functions.
R71: Atheism is a religion.
And the fact that you have to argue tooth and nail to defend your belief that it isn't is tantamount to admitting that it is.
Atheism is a religion, and bald is a hair color.
I think we move onto another life.
Our true existence is a swirling pool of energy (= soul). Every once in a while we decide to put on a meat suit (= birth) to socialize and expirience new things on a different level (= living) and then we take it off (= death) only to return to our original swirling pool of engery state of being.
Darnit. I apologize for the typos.
Our true existence is a swirling pool of energy (= soul). Every once in a while we decide to put on a meat suit (= birth) to socialize and experience new things on a different level (= living) and then we take it off (= death) only to return to our original swirling pool of energy state of being.
If we have a soul (Rush Limbaugh excluded) why are we only conscious of the the here and now? It seems unlikely that there is a switch that gets turned on when our body stops breathing.
Do you know what it's like when you get anesthesia for an operation? It's like that. Nothingness. You aren't alive, you aren't in Summerland, purgatory, heaven, Sheol, anywhere. You're consciousness isn't active. You are dead and gone.
Ashes to ashes, funk to funky. This is the only life and chance you get. Don't waste it.
R39 = Shirley MacLaine
[quote]Atheism is a religion.
Atheism is a religion like "healthy" is an illness.
You're an idiot, R100.
And so amazingly, obviously, and totally wrong it's not even funny.
[quote]We're not our bodies. They are merely containers containing energy, enabling us to exist in a three dimensional physical plane.
Bullshit. We are exactly our bodies. Our minds ARE our brains. There is no "mind/body" duality or separation. The "mind" and consciousness and sense of "self" are emergent phenomina of the brain doing its thing. You can prove this quite simply by observing how personalities change with various drugs that affect the brain, or with various aspects of brain surgery or damage. There is nothing "separate" from our bodies. We ARE our bodies and our bodies ARE us. One and the same.
When the body dies, the mind dies. Just like when a computer dies, the programs running on it disappear.
[quote]If it is unknowable R61, how can you be sure it doesn't exist?
When one can't possibly know something, the one thing you CAN know is that anyone telling you they do know what that something is, is lying to you and is wrong.
Because the chances of them being right about something they can't possibly know anything about is vanishingly small. Like correctly guessing the number of planets in the entire Universe that have atmospheres at this exact moment in time. (hell, that's a question I don't think most people could accurately answer even if we limited it to just "this solar system").
Chris Meloni bends over, spreads his fat cheeks and presents his beautiful shit-eye as he purrs "Welcome to heaven"
[quote]What I don't do either though is dismiss every single account of 'afterlife' experience I've ever heard or read. Many such stories aren't attention-seeking or wishful thinking or moralising to induce fear; they are 'just' personal accounts of human experience, which often give pause. I don't believe that every such account I've ever heard is a lie.
They're not lies. They're perceptions, and perceptiosn are always subjective.
Scientists can induce the "out of body experience" and "light at the end of a tunnel" experience in the lab, almost at will. There are scientific explanations for these "perceptions" (more like the illusions of a stressed brain that is begining to malfunction).
I will never die.
I've made a deal with God.
That limey broad at the link inspired me. I clinched the deal.
We believe what we want to believe in order to provide us with the comfort to stay calm or the motivation to take action.
"Our minds ARE our brains"
Actually, that is a theory and not proven by any means. Some scientists are beginning to propose a theory of "non-local consciousness". The brain is considered not a producer of but rather a receiver of consciousness. We actually don't know exactly what produces "consciousness".
The ego dies. Maybe something continues on the quantum level but the idea of a soul which carries with it aspects of our personality is a conceit.
What really sucks: within a few generations, consciousness will be downloadable. Immortality is within reach.
Most of us will not make it that far, and, if mankind survives long-term, our descendants will look back at us as the ones that just missed out.
Sucks to be us.
Fascinating, R115. Can you link us to any peer-reviewed studies on this "brain as receiver" hypothesis?
R115, that's kind of silly.
All the evidence we have -- ALL of it -- points to the fact that our mind is our brain and there isn't any "external" or separate force ... that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain doing what it does.
Read "Gödel, Escher, & Bach: The Eternal Golden Braid" as well as "The Mind's I" for some background on this, presented in layman's terms.
And BTW, R115, gravity is a "theory". You may want to reconsider your use of the term.
Now, how about some links?
R116, anything that you could ever "download" into an artificial substrate (which is arguable at best that such a thing is even possible) to run... it would only ever be a COPY of your consciousness. One whose thoughts and opinions and personality and experiences would IMMEDIATELY begin to diverge from the source.
We are shaped by our bodies, our hormones, our experiences, our history... as are our minds. Our "mind" is hard-wired into our brains, because mind and brain are one.
It's not like the brain is some generic CPU upon which you run the "personality" program, with the ability to just erase one and install another. And it's not like the "mind" is something separate from a brain, that can be MOVED to another brain (real or artificial). You can only copy it. YOU, the consciousness reading this right now, will never ever be "in some other body" or in a computer or anything. At best, a sort of copy could be made... but when YOUR body dies, YOU still die along with it.
When I die, what will happen to me is that I will die. The incredibly complex interaction of matter and energy that results in life/me will end.
What will happen to me *after* I die is a ridiculous concept as I will no longer exist and never will again.
Of course all we have are scientific, religious, or new age type of theories in that regard. And they all are just that, theories.
I am sure nobody in this thread expects us to deliver actual proof for the ultimate truth that makes all other theories null and void.
All we can do is present our arguments and opinions and leave it at that for everybody else to dismiss, disapprove, agree, or mock.
Our bodies and conscious will die. Our subconscious energy will move on and transform either into some new living being or just float around waiting for the right host and experience.
"When the body dies, the mind dies. Just like when a computer dies, the programs running on it disappear."
Not if you have a Mac.
There's so much bs on this thread. There is no reason to believe that anything takes place after life ceases. You die, you rot. Nothing wrong with that if your head is screwed on right. The nice thing about the honesty of this is that you appreciate those you love a lot more while they are alive knowing that once they are dead, you'll never be in contact any way or fashion there after.
The meanness of people today is a spinoff of believing that in the "here after" you'll be nicer and happier than while on earth.
All this religious stuff just breeds mean, rude, stupid people.
"All this religious stuff just breeds mean, rude, stupid people."
It's not about religion at all. There's the "Aware" study that is seriously examining the phenomena of consciousness while people are flat lining. Has nothing to do with "God" whatsoever.
I've been close to death, if you are sick enough, you really don't care and you know it's over and you are not worried about it.
r-126, flat lining is not death. Once the heart stops beating for approximately 72 hours the body is finally dead. Even at 72 hours, some functions continue until energy supplies are exhausted.
Studies of human death will not reveal much. It's simply a fascinating function and easily gains research money grants.
It's silly for humans to fight about what is beyond human comprehension.
IMO, dying is like waking up from a dream.
Life goes on.
"r-126, flat lining is not death. Once the heart stops beating for approximately 72 hours the body is finally dead."
People investigating this know OF COURSE that flat lining is not death. DUH! What makes this interesting is that our current scientific paradigm states that the brain should be unable to experience consciousness during this state and yet it does.
r121, the epitome of an insufferable atheist! you have Asperger's ??
R131, you're a moron, truly. Nothing R121 said was "insufferable" in the least, or had any indication of Asperger's. In fact, it was simple a reasonable, rational, concise reply of fact.
I will die and cease existing, but my ethereal pussy will still stink.
Well, I know it isnt popular to believe in God anymore but I still do.
An atheist is a man who believes himself to be an accident.
And a man who believes in god is a gullible child, believing fantasies that are so obviously false, refusing to think for himself, locked in a world of magical-thinking silliness and ignorance.
It's so funny, I personally know of 4 atheists that converted to - well maybe that was a wrong choice of word, they began to believe in an afterlife as soon as the alarm bells rang. It was sad to witness these people who were, in two cases, ardent atheists all of a sudden betray it all and grab tightly on to the thought of a soul and an afterlife.
One I had a particularly long conversation with. He was still - in those last few months deeply aware and intelligent. We would sit and he would tell me of how he felt his soul bloom inside his body, how he felt it radiate through every fiber of his being and outward; reaching into the depths of the unknown like an umbilical chord connecting him with his true being.
He felt as if he were just a hand, dipped into a bowl of water to experience the wetness and soon he would be extracted from this place.
He was so sure of it, I would sit and as he talked, I'd see in is eyes a faraway-ness as if he was privy to something I was not. It gave him so much comfort, as indeed it gave the other atheists I knew that let their non-belief fall away as darkness set in.
So, maybe many of you that argue and at times mock those that believe in something more, will one day find yourself desperately grabbing on to these ideas that you now so easily ridicule.
It seems a lot of us are devolving.
Brava or Bravo, r109.
I love these DL threads on life, death, belief, non-belief and facts.
r134 pompously writes, "An atheist is a man who believes himself to be an accident" as though there is something wrong with knowing that, in the most elemental bio-physiological sense, that is a fact.
To read the comments of afterlifers, you'd gather from them that non-believers can't possibly enjoy a sense of wonder at our existence.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I find the fact that I consist of organic matter with a durational existence and that at some moment in the future I'll cease to be, a matter of deep, profound wonder and awe.
That's the problem with afterlifers. You sanctimoniously beleive that us non-afterlifers should need to believe in nonsense in order to appreciate existence when, really, the opposite is true: the facts alone suffice to accomplish that.
"So, maybe many of you that argue and at times mock those that believe in something more, will one day find yourself desperately grabbing on to these ideas that you now so easily ridicule."
No. Does it comfort you to think that others might, in their decrepit delirium, start believing in you and yours?
Funny you should mention all that, R136. Many years ago, I got the results of a lab report showing I was HIV+. This was when there was no hope at all and countless other men were dying all around. I was going to die, and die nasty.
Two months later, I got another lab report that showed the first was wrong. False positive. Despite my fear and grief, not a second in that two months did I think I needed to come to Jesus, ponder my karma, or redirect the swirling pool of energy that is my eternal soul. I was an atheist and remained so.
We live for a while on this earth, and if we're lucky, we experience beauty, bravery, laughter, and a few triumphs. I we are lucky, we love and are loved in return.
That's the deal, and I'm grabbing it with both hands.
R139, were in my post did I say I believed in an afterlife? Also I did say that my friend was in fully aware and his mind had not been touched by disease, he still had all his wits about him in that sense.
He was not old, he was not decrepit. I think you are being a bit of a prick.
I'll rite a book about it ,assholes.
I knew a girl who pondered what happens when you die, but then she died.
the lights go out and it's over. Nothing to fear.
Well, the dying often seem to have some sort of visions or whatever they are of some sort of other dimension or deceased loved ones/guides coming to greet them. By that I mean dying people who aren't heavily medicated or delirious. It's also odd that often people suffering from dementia seem to have a moment of clarity before dying. I find all of that somewhat comforting. Is it true or not? We will all find out some day. I've read many accounts of hospice nurses who often seem to believe there's more to death than meets the eye.
To believe in an afterlife, you have to reject quite a bit of science, experience, and common sense. For instance, if there is an afterlife and a "heaven" or "hell," and we cross between this life and that, why are our memories and existence erased (not withstanding the Shirley Maclaines of the world)?
To understand our existence, we must observe, hypothesize and prove or disprove our theories, and yet religion teaches us to be unquestioning, obedient and simply let go of everything we know to be true. There is, of course, the subjective truth vs. an objective truth, and this is where so many of us get caught up in belief, but the bottom line is that there are immutable truths of which there is no disagreement. It's a difficult concept to grasp, and I don't for a minute think I have grasped this concept.
Here we are, but specks on a speck of a planet in a speck of a solar system lost in a sea we call the universe, and yet we claim to know that there is a god and we were made in his likeness. The same people who want to compel us to their beliefs turn around and take full advantage of hard science when it suits them. For instance, it was revealed that the pope has a pacemaker! They reject the notion that humans evolved over millions of years, and we are still evolving, but when they get sick, they still go to the doctor. Why not accept their fate? Maybe illness is "god's" way of saying that they are right?
No, instead, we're told it's all just some big mystery. Just like Copernicus was labelled a heretic for saying the Earth revolved around the sun, modern day humanists are mocked and ridiculed for saying we are nothing more than a confluence of factors that randomly occurred. I guess the good news is that 500 years later, the old men who wear robes and wave incense sticks forgave Copernicus for being right. We will continue to be held back from great achievement so long as we elevate the ignorant and celebrate their denial.
"We will continue to be held back from great achievement so long as we elevate the ignorant and celebrate their denial."
Not really. The Church and religion are increasingly losing their hold over people.
R146, I sorta have a problem with that way of thinking, that idea science is and progression of science is paramount.
For instance 100s of billions of dollars has been spent on experiments and space quest, and I wonder is there any really piratical advantages when 1000s of children die everyday from starvation or dirty water or illness that could be easily prevent with relatively cheap medicines, yet we don't think anything of pouring what seems to be unlimited amount of money into science.
Was finding Higgs boson worth 20 billion dollars?
There will be a startle at the realization "this is it," followed by acceptance; then a last gasp, visions of something probably, then nothing.
I'll be taken to the big Fema fat farm in the sky.
I lost consciousness because I lost a lot of blood. Presumably if they hadn't managed to stop the bleeding, I would have died and so what I experienced is exactly what I'd have experienced if I had died. Losing consciousness for me was just like falling asleep when you are very very tired. So pleasant that I didn't care if never saw my loved ones again and they found embarrassing secrets when they went through my things.
I don't believe in an after life. I believe in only life.
The mind is not the brain. People don't temporarily lose their brains - they lose their minds. The mind directs the brain. When the body dies, so does the brain. But not the mind. How can it die if it was never born?
The mind is not physical, and therefore it is real. Love, truth and justice are not physical, either. But they are real.
What is physical is temporary, and therefore not real.
Dying is like waking up from a dream. We realize it was just a dream, are amused by how "real" it all seemed, and immediately realize it was all made up.
Everything will make sense, and we will experience deep love, happiness, safety, abundance, tranquility and joy.
But for now we are in the dream. It might as well be a peaceful dream than a nightmare.
Former head of the Max Planck Institute for Physics in Munich, Professor Hans-Peter Dürr:
You are 78 years old. Do you believe in an afterlife? Is there existence after death?
Dürr: "That is an interesting question. What we consider the here and now, this world, it is actually just the material level that is comprehensible. The beyond is an infinite reality that is much bigger. This world is rooted in. In this way, our lives in this plane of existence are encompassed, surrounded, by the afterworld already. My existence in this world is written on a sort of hard drive on the tangible (the brain). I have also transferred this data onto a spiritual quantum field (independent consciousness field). I do not lose this information, this consciousness. The body dies but the spiritual quantum field continues. In this way, I am immortal."
The space race of the '60s gave us the microchip, and we now have an economy and way of life that has been completely transformed... And you don't see how science has given us anything to actually solve the problems of children dying from dirty water, R148? Meanwhile, the pope still thinks we shouldn't give condoms to people dying in Africa. Yeah, science hasn't done anything for us.
How do you think we developed "relatively cheap medicine?" Did we fund science, or pray over moldy bread to discover penicillin? Did we cure Polio through faith-based initiatives, or train doctors to conduct experiments leading to a vaccine? Do I even need to bring up christofascists' response to the AIDS crisis?
When religious leaders speak up and start talking about actually doing something that will further mankind, I'll be the first to laude them. Isn't there something in their book of fairy tales about being good stewards of our realm? Until then, I'm hoping we discover an inhabitable planet not too far away, and the technology to reach it, so that when we kill this planet, the human race doesn't die with it.
R152 is full of such incredible shit that he could fertilize all of Ethiopia. The mind directs the brain? Everything will make 'sense' when the physical degrades? Prove your statements.
"I have also transferred this data onto a spiritual quantum field (independent consciousness field)."
How does he know this exists, and that it's 'spiritual'? And why is 'spirit' considered more 'holy'/basic than the physical world?
That's interesting that people who died and came back have an awareness of the blackness. I don't think the blackness is nothing. I think it's the void from which all creation arises. I totally believe on afterlife and spirit. I've had a lot of interesting spiritual headings and experiences. I think how religion describes spirit is very small and narrow. I don't think a religion can fully grasp the complexity and vast energy of the universe and personify it as God.
R152 is playing word games... and ending up with word-salad. It's really clear he doesn't understand what he's talking about, and is just talking.
And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
Thank you R152. That was beautiful.
C'mon there's got to be someone here who still thinks he's gonna get some wings.
Don't be shy.
I just read R152, and I can't stop shaking my head and laughing. There really are people that preciously deluded, aren't there?
The swirling pool of energy that is my immortal mind-soul
"Professor Hans Peter Dürr is a well known nuclear physicist and philosopher. He worked closely with the nuclear physicist Edward Teller, as well as the inventor of quantum mechanics, Werner Heisenberg. He is a former Director of the Max-Planck-Institut für Physik, Munich."
I suppose he means it's spiritual because within our current state of scientific paradigm we don't yet have the means to prove it empirically (if it does exist). However, given his professional background, I don't believe it's some hippiedippieonelove kind of shit he's just making up. It's an interesting thought, and there are other scientists proposing that consciousness needs to be taken into consideration when contemplating the universe, as much as time, space and matter.
R162...we don't know! We're not there! Or maybe we are!
Oh, Whoopi, my dear, dear Whoopi...of course there are many things we don't know. Emotional adults adjust to this fascinating truth without making shit up because it sounds nice or allows us to think we're cheating death.
But you're very brave to wear your hair that way, and I admire that.
People need to stop confusing "wishful thinking" for "factual analysis".
"People need to stop confusing "wishful thinking" for "factual analysis".
You probably would have said that to people who thought up airplanes and crazy stuff like that.
R167, you're missing the point, but thanks for trying.
I want to be reincarnated into a hot fucking big-titted bitch, with cock-sucking lips, long blond hair and a snapper of a pussy so I can enjoy men's filthy dirty sweaty cocks going in and out of my hot cunt all night. Oh the thrill of a never-ending orgy of cocks to sit down on !
The whole concept of salvation through belief offers strength to those who doubt themselves.
The rest of us are comfortable with reality, and of not having all the answers (but knowing that some of the proposed "answers" given are pretty ridiculous and highly unlikely to be true)
very interesting interview with Sam Parnia at link.