Joan Rivers poked fun at Heidi Klum's Oscar dress, saying, "The last time a German looked this hot was when they were pushing Jews into the ovens.
Despite opposition from the Anti-Defamation League, Rivers -- who is Jewish -- stands by her joke. "My husband lost the majority of his family at Auschwitz, and I can assure you that I have always made it a point to remind people of the Holocaust through humor," she said of her late second husband, Edgar Rosenberg
So should she apologize?
Joan is Joan. That's her schtick.
But the joke wasn't on Jews, it was on Germans. If she needs to apologize for anything it's for an unfunny joke that doesn't make sense. And her continued presence on TV.
She's told more tasteless than that!
You're asking this on Datalounge?
No fucking way!
My friend Julie is a cunt. Joan is a bitch.
Since Joan is a Jewess, give her sister a pass on this one.
Dov Hikind (AKA Michael Jordan)
Better she should apologize for being a Republican and for being chummy with that fool Donald Trump, who never stops accusing Obama of not being American born in spite of evidence showing that he is.
And didn't Joan Rivers have the nerve to chastise Prince Harry for wearing a Hitler costume to a Halloween party a few years ago?
Her protestations are always so lame, why does she even bother ("My neighbor's daughter is deaf, you asshole!").
On Fresh Air last year, she was telling Terry Gross about how she used to write skits for Topo Gigio on Ed Sullivan. Terry asked her if it was demeaning and she said, "For a hundred dollars?? For a hundred dollars I'd write for Hitler!".
She seems to be a loose cannon recently, resorting to Adele-is-fat jokes. Letterman seemed a little uneasy with her a few nights ago.
She has a hell of a nerve equating Heidi klum with nazis from 70 years ago. It would be like a German making a KKK joke about Jennifer Connelly or Anne Hathaway.
Her apology is pointless. Let people decide what they make of her humor and watch or not accordingly.
Personally I feel it's kind of tasteless to make jokes about the Holocaust but whatever.
She needs to get over her "everyone in Germany is a Nazi" crap.
I think it's hilarious.
Pretty disgusting joke - how would she feel if someone said that to her regarding Palestinian kids or black kids. Jewish people like to do that kind of shit all the time but when someone criticizes Israelis treatment of Palestinians or Americas slavery history they brush it off.
Clean your side of the street first then you can criticise other people.
Not to mention that jokes involving genocide are very so-not-OK anyway.
[quote]I think it's hilarious.
You must be easily amused then.
It's a distasteful joke, but coming from Joan Rivers, is anyone really surprised?
As distasteful as it is, why have we become a nation of the outraged? We're outraged by everything -- little or big. We demand apologies when it's clear that the speaker isn't really all that apologetic.
If only we are as outraged with actions as we are with words.
I wonder if she finds it also funny that Israel is giving Ethiopian immigrant women contraception without their knowledge.
r18 and what would be the point of her opinion on such matter?
There would be no point to her comment. Pretty much her's was polemic and very low brow and feeds to the most unsophisticated mind set. Maybe she should sign up for writing the next Hangover.
r20 kind of like you bringing up something so non sequitur. To be polemic and low brow?
It was a stupid, unfunny "joke", but I take her word that she had good intentions. She hates Mel Gibson's guts for being antisemitic, that's one of the few things I like about her. It was great seeing her on The View getting into a tussle with dumbass Whoopie about him.
The joke is not funny. And cruel.
R21 Rush Limbaugh is pretty low brow and he is polemic for sure - seems to be no problem for him to be both. Most cracker-barrel-philosophers are.
Speaking of an unsophisticated mindset...
I love Joan, but the Adele fat jokes were rather tasteless and just seemed unfunny and mean-spirited. Yes, I love Joan, but everyone at some point makes a mistake or speaks out of turn. Those jokes were rude and unnecessary.
Oh my, the pedantic winner of the spelling contest again .......
Tasteless is what Joan does and sometimes very funny. Equal opportunity offender.
She has done a joke that "Schwarzenegger was so hot that Anne Frank would have waved from the window saying - yoohoo, I'm up here."
She should no more have to apologize than Seth MacFarlane, who just preemptively stated that he will not host the Oscars next year
MacFarlane offended lots of people and groups, but was so passive aggressive in his style that he can slip by, though people are seething.
Joan has the guts to tell her jokes.
She probably should not have said it on TV, because everyone must now apologize for everything.
Has anyone ever listened to Chris Rock or Lisa Lampenelli? Richard Pryor? Eddie Murphy, or that bore Lenny Bruce? Kathy Griffin. Equal opportunity offenders.
[quote]Joan has the guts to tell her jokes.
It would be nice to say she had valor IF her jokes were funny, or followed a shred of logic to an inevitable zany conclusion, or weren't decades old borscht belt rehashes.
I never said that the joke was funny and who in the fuck uses the word valour when discussing comics?
I made a point of comparison to the jew, spic, misogynist and black jokes that MacFarlane engaged in during the Oscars.
No valour is required to own what you say, unless you're a weasel. The borscht belt reference is way before my time. Is that Russian Jew leftovers?
Joan's joke did make sense or no one would be upset by it.
She should apologize for not having retired yet.
She made millions with the mean bitter cunt shtick. To me she is not that much different than Ann Coulter who just says outrageous stuff for attention and selling her books. Same goes for so called Queen of Mean Lisa Lampanelli.
They both operate with the same publicity stunt formular (say something that gets you attention and opportunities where you don't apologize for your actions and words).
[quote]and who in the fuck uses the word valour when discussing comics?
If you didn't notice, someone used "guts" to describe her ability, or the so-called backbone that gives her the ability, to tell her "jokes." In common parlance guts = valor, no? I was only parroting something invoked beforehand.
I am the dude who used the word guts, and the one who thought valour was a bit silly in this context. I understand you were attempting to be sarcastic and highbrow at once.
You can tell from our spelling that we come from different lands. Guts is hardly synonymous with valour where I reside.
You have made your point more than once, that the joke and the jokester is crude, not funny and illogical.
I understand you fine.
Guts means guts, in words or action - reckless confidence.
Valour is a fancy boy word for something else.
It's comedy. She doesn't pull her punches. She plays to the back wall of the theatre. The whole point is that she's not afraid to offend.
They cut it out in the UK broadcast.
R30 If you are referring to the MacFarlane Rhianna joke being misogynist, I vehemently deny. I think the biggest misogynist is Rhianna herself. Not for staying with CB but for banking on pretending everybody needs to feel sorry for her or for banking on everybody shaking their heads in disbelieve she is still with him. She is riding one of the lowest PR campaigns I can think of in recent times. She and Taylor Swift can shake hands.
In that incident MacF was rightfully making fun of her. I agree with R32 Joan Rivers is very far from being a clever comedian (maybe she used to be) but with the Adele and Klum joke she is just catering to some lowlife idiots. Since when was it OK or even cool to offend?
[Joan's joke did make sense or no one would be upset by it]
That's the most illogical thing I have ever heard.
Stop being dramatic.
She should apologize because she didn't die 25 years ago like she should have.
She shouldn't apologize, but she should retire.
Because that would kill her.
I missed the Oscars so I tried to watch the Fashion Police the following day just to see who wore what. Fashion for me is a spectator sport, but I am a huge fan. I never watched the show before so I really was not prepared for Joan's shtick. It was not funny. Rude does not seem to be enough of a description. It looked like she tries so hard to say something completely revolting, sensational and controversial and will stretch the logistic as far as she can to get there. There is much to be said for pointless bitchery, when there is some real wit or humor to go along with it. In her case there is just the air of desperation to remain relevant. Is it because she still had to support her daughter?
I don't know about apologizing - how do you even begin to apologize for statements such as these? What, she didn't know how people would react? It was a wrong call? It was absolutely planned and designed for precisely this reaction, just like the anti Islam movie was. Apologies are a moot point at this stage of the game.
And no, I did not watch the whole show. I turned it off after a few minutes. it was too low, even for my pedestrian taste.
No she should not apologize. A joke is a joke among adults. It's not one of her better lines, for sure, but no apology is required
Everyone is such a delicate hothouse flower these days.
Quick! Get the smelling salts!
Are you under the impression that MacFarlane only made ONE misogynist joke or comment ?
Are you deaf or only tone deaf ?
Christ your ass has to have it your way. I am not going to defend Joan Rivers as a great anything, but get your panties out of your ass because these are the kind of jokes she always makes. Heidi and the Jews in the oven is far from her most egregious.
Too many fools read something on DL or have some minimal exposure to someone and start mouthing their outrage and puking out opinions.
I am not a fan of her great wit, but I am a fan of her guts in saying, grow up. Write the network little flowers.
I think that Rivers is mean and past tense and shallow. But I don't pretend I don't get her jokes. Sometimes I laugh. I am not a hypocrite.
She should follow in her husbands footsteps.
She should become a Christian and then flog herself for giving birth to Melissa and pushing her down our throats.
I hate this current over-sensitive, unintelligent culture we live in. No one must ever be offended. No one must ever be made to think deeply.
Everything must be taken at face value. If eyebrows are raised, apologies and stints in career-salvaging rehab must be forthcoming immediately.
No one must ever understand satire or irony. No one must ever be smart enough to figure out what a comedian is really getting at and trying to say. If something doesn't make ME laugh then it's not funny and I demand an apology.
If I don't get art then surely it's not really art.
The internet provides us with all kinds of support groups. You name and offend it and there's already a support group that calls for your head on a silver platter.
Joan Rivers needs to drop dead already. Can't stand this mentally ill Republican cunt.
r48 would raise holy hell over a gay suicide/murder joke.
If you want to get comedy that is controversial, offensive and still intelligent, watch Richard Pryor. Joan used to be great, now with this joke she is a cheap budged version of what a great comedian is like. She crossed the line!
Probably already mentioned but she really needs to apologize for Melissa.
The "joke" is her take on the famous Moms Mabley line "the only time my late husband got hot was when he was creamated." You can see that Joan swiped the intent but the logic is gone, unless she was suggesting that the Nazi was sexually hot by pushing the Jews into the ovens.
Like everything she does, it was a lazy attempt.
Joan shouldn't apologize for the joke because it gave her the badly needed publicity she needs for her next QVC line.
Joan Rivers should be brutally raped, murdered and burned.
But, of course, 80% of respondents to the OP's poll cheer her on.
I'm offended by R56. he should apologize immediately.
Apologize for a mere joke? Shit, she's never apologized for foisting her incredibly unattractive, completely devoid of talent daughter on us, who has never made a nickel on her own.
Joan has a tired formula for jokes.
Tell the same joke, insert current celebrity.
Right now for fat jokes, she's using Adele. A few months ago it was Kirstie Alley, before that Elizabeth Taylor, and so on.
R57, I appreciate you getting the irony of my post.
And true, why I'd never actually wish violence on anyone, she is a vulgar, nasty excuse of a human being. I can't believe someone I found so fucking funny growing up has turned into the scary demon of a person this woman has become.
She's classist, racist, horrible and with her fame and money has never contributed anything to humanity when she was able to.
I'm also tired of the droning on of people like Joy Behar, etc. who always give passes to comedians; somehow, comedians have become allowed to say absolutely anything they like and the rest of us are finger-wagged and scolded for daring to take issue with it.
Rivers can't go away soon enough and, when she does, let's hope she takes her scary daughter with her.
Shouldn't she at least be funny if she's going to rely on the "just a joke" defense?
With so many things for which to apologize, why should Joan Rivers worry about that one. A distaff Jackie Mason, she has been an affront for quite a while -- long before her assault on our eyes.
Umm, hello...she's Jewish. Why should SHE have to apologize for this? Besides, she's taking about Germans pushing Jews into the ovens...isn't that what actually happened?
I'm pretty PC and proud of it, but I think this job is relatively minor (and not funny) given who it's coming from. Frankly, shouldn't Heidi be the one who's offended given the contextualizing there?
You're an idiot R63. An idiot who should have been aborted before squirming out.
Someone should tell R34 that "guts" and valor both mean "bravery".
"Oh my, the pedantic winner of the spelling contest again ......."
Honey, she never leaves. I picture a teacher who retired early from disability, who lives on the internet, rabidly "correcting papers" day and night. She has no sense of humor or irony.
I just want to bury her in spit wads.
Listen up Miriam Webster..that is your name I hope?
Look up the word "nuance", will ya.
Stop being so ridiculous.
I can smell your talcum valour from here, you gutless prude.
[quote]Listen up Miriam Webster
Do people outside of FreeRepublic still use the term "P.C."? It's kind of like "knee-jerk liberal" isn't it? I just thought you guys would have come up with something else by now.
I'm ok with nonpc jokes, but they should at least be funny. This one wasn't.
Well, I guess r70 answered my question.
Lord, help me.
In this case it is Miriam, I assure you.
You fucking old queens should get together and look up dirty words.
A joke about world war II. It isn't even funny
It's 2013 and joan is a tired unfunny old hag
Are we still talking about this non-newsworthy dreck?
It wasn't a joke *about* WW2.
I don't have any interest in Rivers, but being sanctimonious but then calling her an old hag is prissy and sanctimonious.
The joke was lame, but she shouldn't apologise. It's not too soon!
She should apologize for all that bad PS.
Spewing racist remarks on Heidi is kind of funny since she used to be married to a black guy. Not that I like her but what Joan did was a joke at the lowest form. Same thing with the Adele joke. She is really catering Anne Coulter territory. Pretty disgusting some people actually find this funny.
I love how Joan makes horse jokes about SJP when Melissa is standing right there. I mean, they have to see it, don't they?
You would think, R80, yes, you would think they would.
If I were Heidi I would be a little sensitive and a lot pissed that Joan used me for a joke like that.
Hey she's a hot German just like those Germans who were standing close to the ovens that they were pushing Jews into at Auschwitz.
See how much sense it makes?
See how funny that is?
If she were making the joke about Schwartzenfucker it would make sense given his/families past and be a good burn cause many people think he's an asshole at this point, so he's fair game.
Heidi was just minding her own business and Joan mugged her.
Seriously, the best way to get back at Joan is to call out her daughter for being a no-talent horse-faced idiot. She hates that.
I love Joan; I think she's very funny and quick-witted. But I thought her fat jokes about Adele were tasteless, mean-spirited, cruel and unnecessary. I thought the German joke simply wasn't funny.
I still like Joan. Everyone makes mistakes or fucks up on occasion.
I didn't like the fat or German jokes, but I do like Joan. She delivers better than most comedians on the scene today. And she has always done it better than that insulting ass Don Rickles who has never once said anything funny.
I remember Joan from the 70s where he showed was this --
the first half was all about her beating the shit out of herself.
The second half was about her beating the shit out of others.
"where he showed was this" = "where her show was this"
People need to get a sense of humor. I've lived long enough to be around before rampaging PC - I miss the 60's, 70's, part of the 80's where you had some GOOD comics, including Don Rickles. Joan Rivers was around then, too. People are way too touchy, victim-y, think they're all "special snowflakes." Pathetic.
No, Joan Rivers shouldn't apologize; SHE's the one who's Jewish, for fuck's sake.
It IS perhaps possible to go too far. I'm still waiting to see if anyone (perhaps I missed it?) will ever take on any aspect of 9/11 for humor.
Before you all burst into flames (sorry; BAD analogy) and your heads explode, I would pleasantly submit that 9/11 killed far fewer people than the Holocaust.
CHrist on a cross, Klum should be glad it isn't 30-40 years ago where any number of comics might have been "brave" enough to make comments about her and pitch black exhusband.
Boo fucking hoo, R23. Welcome to reality. You probably think bullies are going to disappear someday,"just because." Grow the fuck up: yes, it was cruel; lots of cruel things and people in this world. Alas.
R30: Oldster here (me.) The Borscht Belt is a name given to T a number of largely (once upon a time) Jewish hotels in the Catskills. THe Concord (if I have the name right) is one of the biggest. BIg summer resorts; nightclubs, etc.; Jewish comedians - perhaps more in the 40's, 50's , 60's - got their start there, many of them.
(I assume I don't have to explain borscht is a Russian soup; lots of Jews are Russian Jews...)
I like JOan; I will concede that people 10, 20,30, 40, years younger than I (late 50's) might not...
R28: thank you for referencing Lenny Bruce. Don't know if you're old like me or just a student of comedy? I think he REALLY got himself in trouble/fell from favor (along with the drugs, etc.) with the:
"Bobby Franks was a snotty kid anyway"
comment (referencing the little boy who was kidnapped and killed - Leopold and Loeb, was it?)
In a more recent "scandal" - 2-3 years? I was and still am PISSED OFF that Gilbert GOttfried got in trouble and dismissed as the voice of the AFLAC duck for insensitive tweets about a Japanese tsunami. Whatever you may think of Gottfried, he IS funny in his own way.
(although he probably SHOULD have researched - or if knew, toned down - the fact that Japanese are evidently a HUGE majority of AFLAC's customers.
R48, you are my hero; I fecking love you! A rare voice of reason here. THANK you for intelligent comments; I agree with you wholeheartedly.
A realist with a sense of humor
I just read the joke, and laughed.... and I am Jewish... so no, Joan shouldn't apologize. She should tell it to a new audience tomorrow.
R88 through R93 is the same poster. Why post so many times, R88 through 93? Why not just once?
Well 94 the how would you feel if you were German?
Garland used to refer to her agents as Leopold and Loeb.
I didn't enjoy doing "Holocaust." Whatever Joan said about it I'm sure is apt. Lord James Woods got on my nerves almost as much as Charles Dance in "Plenty."
It's incorrect to say that Joan is an "equal opportunity offender." She has one sacred cow: The British Royal Family.
Have you noticed that one of the most photographed woman in the world, the Duchess of Cambridge, is never discussed on The Fashion Police? Obviously, discussion of The British Royals, are off limits.
I read a Vanity Fair article ( back when it was fun to read VF) about Charles and Camilla. It was published around the time they married. Joan was present at all events, even the ulra-private party hosted by the Queen.
So even Joan Rivers has restraint, depending on who it is.
Liz Taylor is so fat she puts mayonnaise on her aspirin.
Let this thread die, please.
Your queen-sized control-top pantyhose are showing, R102.
What difference should it make to you if a thread lives or dies?
Then you should be wishing that the entirety of DL dies, R104.
r106, Excuse you for what?
My post at r100 referred to Charles and Camilla's marraige.
R108 Read your second sentence, dear.
[quote]I was and still am PISSED OFF that Gilbert GOttfried got in trouble and dismissed as the voice of the AFLAC duck for insensitive tweets about a Japanese tsunami.
Who knew Gilbert Gottfried had a fan?
OK, r108, I re-loooked at the picture and noticed Joan with the blender. That's funny.
Given how vitriolic Joan is, however, that pic could be sent to the Royals by Joan and they'd have a laugh. It's harmless.
I stand by what I previusly wrote. Rivers is hands-off with the Royals.
Stern fans love Joan and love Gilbert.
Joan's sacred cow is Nancy Reagan.
[quote]Joan has a tired formula for jokes.
Tell the same joke, insert current celebrity.
Right now for fat jokes, she's using Adele. A few months ago it was Kirstie Alley, before that Elizabeth Taylor, and so on.
Comedian Adam Hills' reply to Rivers. "Fuck you," is the nicest comment.