Whose life is harder: a gay white person or a straight person of color?
Whose life do you think is harder. As a straight person of color, I say our lives are equally hard. I faced an incredible amount of discrimination in my life. I've only met one gay person (who was white) and he seemed to have a much better life than me. I guess it depends on the individual and your luck but I'd life is equally hard.
It depends on whether you're the type who sees himself as a victim of other people. Even though I'm not necessarily noticeable, I've always been open about my sexuality, maybe because I do not want to be confronted by anti-gay comments uttered by people I'd like to think better of. I do think it is harder for a gay black person, though. That's the question you didn't ask. Why do you ask?
I'm a white gay man in Canada and I can't honestly say that I have ever really faced discrimination. A little bullying and teasing as a kid, sure. But as an adult? Nothing.
It hasn't hindered my education, career, or really any other area of my life ... that I'm aware of.
[quote]I've only met one gay person (who was white) and he seemed to have a much better life than me.
You've met only one person whom you've known to be gay?
And what brings you here?
I think it's a pretty safe bet that any one person does not constitute a representative cross section of any of the groups of which he's a member.
R3, isn't being Canadian enough of a handicap?
Gay minorities have it the hardest and endure the most discrimination. Straight women of color tend to have it shitty. Gay white women suffer from depression and bipolar disorder. Gay white men tend to make do and succeed fairly often.
And all of the married straight people are FUCKING MISERABLE!
[quote]isn't being Canadian enough of a handicap?
On the contrary, darling. We have more rights up here than you can dream about.
***...and I can't honestly say that I have ever really faced discrimination."
"Can't?" Oh, dear.
R7, having rights is a function of living in Canada. Living there is not a problem. Being a Canadian, though, is a whole different thing.
It's easier to be a person of color because you don't have to tell your parents.
Truthfully everyone born without money in their family has a really hard life regardless of color or orientation.
All minorities have harder lives because of discrimination, and because of being treated like second-class citizens.
LGBT community has it hard.
Women have it hard. .
Minorities have it hard.
I suppose a black lesbian would have the perfect trifecta of misfortune. She is black, female, and gay. Talk about 3 strikes against you.
From what I have seen, a person of color is going to have it a lot harder. The amount of discrimination I have seen my black friends and even strangers experience is far beyond anything I, as a white gay male, have had to deal with.
Try being a female of colour who is gay.
What a ridiculous question, OP. Do you really think there's just one answer that applies to all gay white people and all straight people of color, regardless of individual circumstances?
And do you really think we believe that you are actually a straight person of color who has met only one gay person his whole life, yet nonetheless found his way to this gay-centric discussion board and decided to start pestering the gays with dumb, inflammatory questions? We all you know you are a gay white troll just trying to stir up shit and provoke a bunch of racist comments.
Person of color...unless they're second generation wealthy.
That's easy- person of color. I do not care if you are Barach Obama- put him in normal NYer clothes, take away secret service around him and ask him to hail a cab on 5th Ave. I am white, WASP etc. I get the first cab free- he might be there for at least a half an hour.
Black people, especially men, face discrimination in subtle and not so subtle ways every day of the week.
GWM here. Sure, there have been some difficult times, but they would fall into a shadow of the difficulty people of color experience even before they have an opportunity to show who they are. I think the preconception many have before they meet someone gay is someone who does not have morals, but the preconception with a person of color is they will feel threatened or unsafe.
Minority= presumption of guilty until proven innocent & systematic racism
Gay= presumption of deviance until proven decent, systematic inequality
Women= either you are a Dansel in Distress or a Raging Dyke
"Try being a female of colour who is gay."
Das me! Don't you tell me I ain't discrimalaised!
You get off, faggots!
What is up with all of these comparisons? All this comparisons do is bring out the homophobes and the racists.
I hate to even compare struggles but I'm going with: straight person of color
White privilege goes a long way.
I'm straight and I visit here. I like the conversations, the variety of topics, and I enjoy reading the "gay perspective" even though you all don't agree on everything. As a straight person, I don't even consider some POV's that are brought up here. It's informative. I visit several discussion sites. This is the only "gay-centric" one.
I'm not confused about my orientation, I'm not closeted, and, frankly, I'm shocked/saddened by some of the stuff I do read here. I used to have hatred in my heart for "gays" or homosexuals, or whatever the term is. But visiting some of the discussions here has softened that. Made me more sensitive to the fact that ALL groupings of people are groupings of individuals, and no one individual is representative of the group.
There are plenty of threads here that I don't open, because they don't interest me in the least. But some of them are hysterical, and even enlightening. I'm glad I found this site. It's a good way to get some of the news of the day without having to go to 20 different sources. Oh, and I found it because I'm obsessed with an actress, and you all were talking about her for a while a year ago.
So please understand that straight people can come here and enjoy the conversations, appreciate them, without outing themselves, or enduring the humiliation of having to explain why they visit. Two way street and all.
Not this shit again...
I'm going to go with highly sensitive people of any persuasion.
To be highly sensitive in this world, at this time, is to endure enormous pain and requires great courage.
I've seen all of the above spoken groups and know that anyone can fit in with their 'community' and never take too many risks, or have very much self-awareness.
And I will say that loners are often the most oppressed minority, along with introverts.
Probably a person of color. All that lotion and dealing with your hair, it's gotta be a pain in the ass.
Amen to R11 and R12. I think this article sums up R12's point quite nicely:
OP, thank you for raising this provocative question. To the haters who snark at OP for mentioning such a topic: fuck off. Unless we start seeing "do not post such-and-such topics on DL" appearing from the Webmaster, I for one would rather engage on THIS topic than all the "presenting taints, holes, etc." stuff.
My $.02: people of color have it harder than gay white males, hands-down. This from my observation of 30 years in big cities: SF, NYC, and now a couple of years in a very small town.
Mind you, in the small town unless someone wears a literal flag proclaiming their gayness!, people are sometimes just. that. clueless (I got in an argument today with a neighbor - educated - who refuses to believe that a mutual high school graduate who just died at a relatively early age, was probably gay. I remember him in high school: flaming! snooty (neither here nor there), obit mentioned running a flower shop for 30 years in a medium-large city; no wife, kids, etc., etc. -
and again: FLAMING in high school. Oh and real cute. I'm sorry he's dead; I've been sobbing for 2 hours (and I haven't seen him in 30+ years.)
Sorry; bit off track. He was from a very wealthy family, and had an easier life, but - again in a small town - lots of nice rememberances on the funeral home's website. Contrast:
When I returned from visiting my brother at Xmas, a new resident (elderly woman, very nice)'s 2 sons - 30ish - were coming around the corner and using the word "nigger" casually in conversation. I almost said something but: I have to(for now) live in the f---ing ignorant small town.
White boys: feel lucky.
This should have been a poll, but...
Black people are not perceived to be perverts, so I'd have to say if you are out or 'obviously gay', I'm guessing you're not going to be well-received.
Of course I've never been black, so...
What actress were you obsessed with?
This is ridiculous trolling. A person of color could be the daughter of a wealthy and well-connected business or government executive. Every ivy league school has sizable minority populations and they arent all there on scholarships. A gay white male, on the other hand, could be a homeless, HIV-infected street prostitute. There are plenty of young white gay kids who wind up fending for themselves on the streets, with no family, skills or connections. Many come from poor backgrounds and ignorant, sometimes abusive families.
Most examples aren't that extreme, but a college-educated middle class black, Latino or Asian person with a supportive family has a much easier life than a poor, uneducated gay white male with no family that cares for him and a poor support network, on top of the societal messages that tell him he's damaged, perverted and less than a man.
"Minority" does not always equal "life of hardship". "White" does not always mean "privileged and upwardly mobile". And trust me, the stereotype of the wealthy gay male with oodles of disposable income is not as prevalent as people think. Most white gay men I know have struggled financially at least once in their lives. Many received no assistance from family after adulthood. Many of us are simply middle class, with car payments, taxes to pay, rent or mortgages, with few luxuries and scant savings or assets.
Yes, racism is real and so is white privelege, but it's not as "black and white" as you assume. Class and economic differences are a much more accurate indicator of relative hardship.
Webmaster please shut this thread down.
It's bringing out the racists and straights!
R34 Perhaps you should create a website of your own. Seeing how you want everyone to conform to your standards, that maybe the best solution.
[quote] that maybe the best solution.
[quote]having rights is a function of living in Canada. Living there is not a problem. Being a Canadian, though, is a whole different thing.
Is being a cunt a function of wherever the hell you live? Or is it a whole different thing?
straight person of color
Class is more important than either race or sexuality.
R32 Gillian Anderson. In retrospect, and after reading here for a while, I guess I should have known she was bi-sexual. I had no idea. Though it shocked me at first, I'm learning that it's no big deal. I'm learning to be comfortable with the idea that people aren't all wired the same way.
Definitely the straight black man. In that case, class or money doesn't matter. Like the poster said about Barack Obama trying to hail a cab in NYC. This is truth. After I made an earlier remark about whether or not you see yourself as a "victim," I recalled an incident recently in which a straight black woman I know was followed out of a store and accused of shoplifting (accuser was not white, but Asian). This woman is a manager at a law firm and I was shocked to see this happen.
[quote]Truthfully everyone born without money in their family has a really hard life regardless of color or orientation.
There's no such thing as WHITE Privilege. There is WEALTHY privilege. There's a difference. Most whites are not rich.
Being white is still the prize. As Chris Rock once said: A homeless white man would not trade places with him still hoping his white ticket will turn lucky. But in 30 years being white will not be the prize.
If you live in a large city and are a white gay person you would only have problems if you are the type to go out looking for problems, or doing or acting in some manor to make others look at you negatively. People who are quiet, unassuming, and mind their own business do not attract attention from others generally.
White guys might get it from each other, but women and minorities will get abuse from each other and the system as well.
Minorities don't usually bother white guys.
Everyone will get it from everyone if someone in power is mad at you for anything, and then the gayness becomes just another stick to beat you with.
[quote]As Chris Rock once said: A homeless white man would not trade places with him still hoping his white ticket will turn lucky.
This only makes sense insofar as many homeless people are mentally ill.
I can't wait til the white animal race is gone - It will be a peaceful and equal world then - heaven
[quote]I can't wait til the white animal race is gone - It will be a peaceful and equal world then - heaven
As you can see in Somalia, Sudan or the Congo.
[quote] I recalled an incident recently in which a straight black woman I know was followed out of a store and accused of shoplifting
A few years ago, on a Sunday morning, I was working on my car and ran down to the local K-mart to get motor oil. As I was leaving there was an old white woman in the vestibule checking bags and receipts of customers as they left. Ahead of me was a black woman and (what I'm guessing) was her teen daughter. They obviously just came from church or were on their way because they were dressed to the nines, hair done, the whole ten yards. They had their bags checked. Me, a white guy, unshaven, looking like hell in greasy, ratty clothes, was given a pass and allowed to walk out without having my bag searched.
[quote] trying to hail a cab in NYC
I would gladly never ride another cab again in my life if I had equal rights under the law. Gay people are still discriminated against BY LAW so the question answers itself imho. End legal discrimination against gays and then you can consider this question. Til then, that's the only answer. Discrimination against gays is still legal, indeed it is MANDATED by law, so that's that.
[quote]As Chris Rock once said: A homeless white man would not trade places with him still hoping his white ticket will turn lucky.
It is Chris Rock who chooses to let white people hold that sort of power over Chris Rock. It is envy on his part, envy of something unattainable to him even with all the privileges that wealth and fame give him.
Until a white man has been executed for raping a black women which has never happen in America's history and thousands of black men have been executed for raping a white woman then being white is still the prize.
Who deserves Freddie Smith's moobs more? A gay white man or a straight person of color?
Who will bomb harder when hosting the Oscars? Seth McFarlane or a black dyslexic lesbian with Spina Bifida?
It is SO difficult for a white, gay man to get a cab in certain neighborhoods.
[quote]Who will bomb harder when hosting the Oscars? Seth McFarlane or a black dyslexic lesbian with Spina Bifida?
Who is more likely to get slapped and told to shut up on a plane?
A crying black infant? Or a loud, gossipy queen? Does it make a difference if it's a fat middle-aged white man in drag in a caftan or a tweeked out twink?
You can hide being gay, you can't hide being black
And sometimes you HAVE to hide being gay, including from your own parents, r58.
Straight people of color do have one undeniable advantage over gays...they never have to tell their parents.
Since we have elected a POC (Person of color) President TWICE now, maybe they can just stop the endless bitching and blaming "whitey" for all their woes.
R58, True but you don't have to come out to your family and worry about their reaction if you are black.
Homosexuality isn't embraced by society at large.
Afrocentrism isn't embraced by society at large.
This is a Judeo-Christian, xenophobic, heterosexist, & Eurocentric society, and that will never change no matter how many black faces we have as Commander-in-Chief and no matter how many states pass marriage equality laws. Blacks are tolerated. Gays are tolerated. Embracing and tolerating are 2 totally different things.
R61, You are proving my point.
Judeo Christain WON the war for world dominance over 2000 years ago ( and not all 100% hetero either ) be grateful we tolerate as much as we do,, most dominate groups in nature do not .
[quote]Judeo Christain WON the war for world dominance over 2000 years ago
2000 years ago, the most powerful force in the world were pagans.
R65, Did they really?
Last I checked those Judeo-Christian nations that collaborated on the 21st Century Crusade (War on Terror) are in an economic recession, and people are heading out East for jobs. Never thought I'd live to see the day that Dubai and China would be trumping the U.S. in job opportunity and investment potential.
The Western World advances and comes up with new innovations by robbing and exploiting the resources of the East. They always have done that, and always will.
Christianity started in the Middle East, not in Europe you dimwit and Africa is the cradle of mankind.
The textbooks and their revisionist history are not to be trusted. The East civilized the West.
How that work out for them , R66?
R68 Pretty well considering what followed. A little thing called the Dark Ages ring a bell for you? Probably not. Someone who has such a poor understanding of history as you do would never be able to comprehend.
R66, I'd say it's working just fine. Christmas and Halloween are Pagan holidays after all and they have stood the test of time.
Christianity consists of many adopted Pagan practices. Roman Catholicism is practically Paganism-lite.
Did it ever dawn on you that the Pagan/christian "blending " of symbols and holy days was down on purpose?
Besides whether you pray to Christ or sacrifice the occasional goat to Baphomet ...aren't you a little too old to believe in sky fairies?
R71 See, the problem is here at DL, when you say something as profoundly stupid as you did at R65, nothing you say afterwards will ever be taken seriously.
[quote]It is Chris Rock who chooses to let white people hold that sort of power over Chris Rock.
What the fuck are you talking about, r52? Nothing in the comment you quotes suggests that Chris Rock is letting white people hold any power over him.
My parents have a statue of Chris Rock on their front lawn.
At least that's who he looked like to me as a child.
What is up with all of these comparisons? All this comparisons do is bring out the homophobes and the racists.
It's you know who troll. Asking questions so you'll react to HER issues about being a person of color. She doesn't get the reaction at Dlisted, Female First and Just Jared anymore. Now she'll attempt to victimize the naive here. All of these years and she still hasn't found a viable life for herself. Summer, winter, rain or shine you'll find her on some board looking for victims. She's even on a troll watch list with reports of her many alters citing American, Canadian and UK webmasters.
She's classified as a "ghetto troll" internationally.
OP, why does it have to be a contest between the two?
R76 it's because I'm a persoon of color. I've struggled àlot in life against discrimination. And from reading the dl, I. Learn that gays face a lot of discrimination. I'm curious which is worse, because, imo, both are disadvantages. It's simple curiosity.
It depends on where you live obviously. Obviously straights of color have it harder in San Francisco and gay whites have it harder in Reno.
[quote] I'm curious which is worse
Again, how fucking stupid are you to believe that there is one answer that applies to everyone? Clearly, about a million different factors--location, socioeconomic status, culture, family background, level of education attained, etc.--that can either mitigate or aggravate the amount of discrimination faced by any particular individual.
[quote]it's because I'm a persoon of color.
And again, you are full of shit. You are a troll, and most likely a white troll, just hoping to pit the gays and the people of color against each other.
They are enough racist gay white people in this forum alone for anyone to immediately know the answer to that question. Ask yourselves: would I choose to be an *average* gay white male or an *average* (that's important; we aren't talking about the Obamas or The Cosby show here) black straight male, if I had the choice? You all know what you'd choose. It is harder to be black in this world than it is to be white. Period.
I don't understand why there must be a malicious motive behind a thread topic?
Why would I be stupid. I am comparing a straight person of color and a gay white person of similar backgrounds, location, socioeconomic status...etc. (as similar as possible) and asking which one's life is harder.
I'm not a troll but if you choose to believe me a troll, then it's really up to you. Whatever preserves your sanity, dear.
Well, I'm black and gay so in *theory* my life is supposed to be super hard, but I don't think it's much harder than the average person's.
I'm so immune to the dirty looks that come from white people for daring to live my life and be a successful, confident black man that I don't even care anymore. It truly says more about them than it does about me.
I don't really subscribe to the gay culture's worship of whiteness or to the gay culture in general.
The biggest issue in my life is not my race or sexual orientation, it's the fact that I come from next to nothing and things get very hard sometimes. I suppose that is in itself a function of racial inequality though. For example, my grandfather who is a WWII veteran couldn't use the gi bill or VA loan, things that would've helped my family build wealth, because he was black.
A great deal of black people are really starting from square one and people choose not to think about it or the reasons why.
R83 What is your secret to not worshiping whitness? It's built in me that I find myself and people of my own color homely and unattractive. I waste oodles of time conjuring up various scenarios where I get a white boyfriend and fit in with white people, somehow. Now that I think about it, it's occupied a considerable chunk of my life...this aspiring to be white, wanting to be white, desiring to be with a white mate. How did you do it.
Last I heard, being a gay, white country singer is a living hell on earth!
Why are black people so racist?
Gay minorities have it the hardest and endure the most discrimination. [/quote]
That's because blacks and women can hide in the closet by pretending to be white males, while gays don't have that option.
str8 POC, obviously. Gay guys don't mind fucking pussy; in fact, lots and lots of them really get off on it. So they can always blend in.
[quote]Whose life is harder: a gay white person or a straight person of color?
Who gives a shit when it's the gay person of color that has it harder than both of those scenarios.
"I am rich and even the poorest white person would not want to be me"
The poor person who is praying that job at McDonalds will come through.
I don't know, I'm not even poor and I wouldn't mind being Chris Rock.
I've seen his house.
I'd trade places.
Two Cures for Love (of a White Person)
1. Don't see him. Don't phone or write a letter.
2. The easy way: get to know him better.
Is the gay white person a Will or a Jack? I think you need to put it into context. Most gay men, black or white, blend in with everyone else. And quite frankly, all guys are assumed to be straight until they say otherwise.
[quote][R83] What is your secret to not worshiping whitness? It's built in me that I find myself and people of my own color homely and unattractive
Trollin', trollin, trollin ....
No actual person of color would come on here and act like such a pathetic little drip. Only in minds of white racist trolls do people of color "worship" and envy whiteness, and hate their own color.
Police harassment and "accidental" shootings by racist alone proves that being black is more dangerous. If a gay white male is living in a blue state and a major metro(NYC, LA, Chicago), the homophobia he will encounter will pale in comparison to being black.
Add onto that housing discrimination and being paid less. Plus if a gay white male appears "straight" he can avoid a lot of gay bashing. You can't hide being black.
Look R85, why I would write out about my experiences even though it may come off as pathetic?
Because it's an anonymous board that's why. I would never say how much I like white people or how I'm only attracted to white people in real life. Because it's anonymous, I get to be more honest. This is how I feel. Not everyone is confident.
In real life, I put on more of a tough and confident act.
And I say this: I can't be the only one feeling this way.
They are each difficult in their own unique way. It's like comparing apples with oranges.
R93, What does that quote mean?
Maybe it's due to the fact that I am whiter than Ozzie & Harrietts' nether-regions....and Canadian to boot.
But for the life of me I cannot decipher that quote.
Please enlighten us
[quote]I would never say how much I like white people or how I'm only attracted to white people in real life.
Of course not, because in real life, everyone can see that you ARE white.
Someone claimed a few post back that no white man has ever gone to jail ( or perhaps it was "executed") for raping a black woman.
Well I suppose that if you are all so deeply in lust with white people, jailing that white rapist would be liked charging Santa Claus with Break & Entry, wouldn't you say?
I disagree with you R100, while she in all likely is not black, I also am picking a subtle South Asian Indian vibe from her ramblings.
Ironically THE SINGLE MOST RACIST CULTURE ON EARTH !
I can just picture our little bovine Brahmani expounding her racist trollings from the comfort of the condo Mummy & Daddy bought for her while she studies Advanced Physics at MIT.
Must be terrible frustrating to be so close to being black and "cool", but still off by a few shades of brown and "nerdy"..
[quote]Must be terrible frustrating to be so close to being black and "cool", but still off by a few shades of brown and "nerdy"..
Some of those East Indians are blacker than African Americans.
I've asked a few gay black guys which they thought was more difficult in terms of how the world treats them. All said being gay. But that's Canada. I'm guessing it's different in the states, especially when I see some of the rabid racist posters on here.
Gay white people, hands down. White privilege always wins.
Society has agreed that racism is bad. The jury is still out on gays and it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against gay people. While there are still racist people around, it's generally understood that this is a bad trait. A pope, senator, preacher, journalist, etc could not say the things about black people they say about gays.
Straight black people also never have to deal with rejection from their own families, churches, communities and schools.
And as for the hiding argument: there are many, many gay people who can't hide their sexuality (especially living in times as reactionary as ours: I would say many, many gay people couldn't hide their sexuality now) and there are people of African descent where you can not tell that is their heritage.
This is a trolling racebaiting thread.
[quote]That's easy- person of color. I do not care if you are Barach Obama
Majority of homeless youth = gay and lesbians.
The last time I checked, blacks are a fully protected class, unlike gay and lesbians.
[quote]Society has agreed that racism is bad. The jury is still out on gays and it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against gay people.