She's supposed to be the best female singer of all time, at least, in terms of record sales. I listened to one of her songs the other day and noted nothing special about her vocal abilities. She isn't that good. And she always seem like she's falling asleep and her voice is sort of monotone. I think the only reason she's as big as she is, is because she is a sellout. She was the only one at the time to make fun of religion.
Madonna is not the best nor the person who sold the most. But she is a genius at marketing herself.
Look at Apple, it's all about marketing. And few people can compare to Madonna. And to be fair, her work prior to, and including Music, was very good.
Record sales are no indication of talent or quality.
I never got her, either, OP. I have only bought one of her records, which I ended up throwing out because it reeked of patchouli oil.
Madonna was the soundtrack to my teen/early adult coming out years. I loved her! She was a fabulous entertainer. She seemed to embrace and love her gay fans. Now we know it was all an act. Now she's a humorless bitch.
R1 nailed it! Good marketing, music and shock value, her singing is very average. I must admit I did like her at one point - now she is beyond her expiration date.
She's always been up-front. No hidden corners. Everybody else plays a bullshit game to get ahead. She just gets ahead. Period. She doesn't delude her fans with idealistic promises (Lady what's her name, anyone?) She doesn't exhibit insipid faux-humility (Beyonce). She just gets what she wants to do DONE.
I love this shot of her as a little girl seducing the camera and her little brother in front getting pissed off with her attention seeking but brilliant propensity for self-promotion. Absolutely hysterical:
If I allowed peons to sit in my presence I'd say "pull up a chair"...
The only reason that she was that big was that she riffed on the fun filled sexual revolution , particularly during the 80's LGB sexual revolution.
Every album seemed to have a new fetish or something. Always about that first, then the dancing. Not much vocally at all.
Finally she got a little long in the tooth to be trying that same tired game.
IF she could sing half as well as arguably much more famous or vastly superior
Vocally Whitney Houston, then she could continue as is.
Bottom line, it is over for that Diva. Vocally for sure.
[quote]I love this shot of her as a little girl seducing the camera and her little brother in front getting pissed off with her attention seeking but brilliant propensity for self-promotion. Absolutely hysterical:
That's not what's happening at all.
You're very creative. I'll give you that.
I'll never get the tres gay obsession with female singers and she was especially ghastly.
everything, if you like human garbage
Another bash Madonna thread on DL. zzzzzzz
OP posting from the 1987.
Honey, Madonna is fabulous. She has been fabulous since her debut in '83. She is the greatest performer of our time, next to Ms. Streisand. Streisand is a thousand times better, but that's Babs, NO ONE comes close. Madonna is the closest, and she is miles above her competition. Madonna loves her gay fans and her entire career IS FOR US! She is self-less and loves us. It's not a phony sham like Gaga and her 'little monsters.' It's real.
Madonna has evolved with the times and is ALWAYS the bee's-knees, whatever era it is. She is a powerful woman, a great singer, a phenomenal dancer, and her showmanship rivals Streisand. She is a gay icon, and deserves to be, more than anyone (except maybe Babs, Liz Taylor, or Liza).
Ten years from now, Madonna will still be selling out halls from Sacramento to Scranton. Mark my words. Who else from the '80s is still recording AND popular? Madonna... and no one else. Cyndi Lauper? Gone., Michael Jackson? Gone. Wham? Gone. Abba? Gone. Diana Ross? Gone. Whitney Houston? Gone. Jody Watley? Gone. Sheena Easton? Gone.
He/She already started a few new ones, again. I think it's the same person as the Fat Adele threads.
R15 Madonna probably sucks donkey dicks.
And I wrote "probably" because she probably would if it would gain her just one little scintilla of a sweatball of an iota of attention that might be headed in someone else's direction.
Oh, and your taste in music sucks donkey dick, R15.
The first pop star to have longevity without having talent. The first female pop star to be sexual instead of just sexy. She combined the Sexual Revolution with pop music videos. She perfected the art of trolling. Controversy and sex sells. She had the fraus and conservatives fuming. She knew the meaning of spectacle. She was a risk taker, and had a wicked sense of humor. The highest selling female pop star of all time. Most Top 10 hits of all time. Most #1's on the dance chart. Most famous female popstar in the world. Highest grossing tours of all time. Most acclaimed music videos. Varied discography.
She broke barriers hunny. If Madonna had died in 1989, she STILL would be a legend today. She did alot in just 5 years.
Madonna was that bitch back then. She needs to go back to going against the grain and shocking people. Her music is too conformist now.
[quote]If Madonna had died in 1989
I will always remember being on the dance floor at Limelight in 1985 and hearing "And you can dance, for inspiration. Come on, come on! I'm waaaaaaiting!" It was a magical time.
But as I said before, she is a performer. Her vocals are weak and she has a three note range. Her latest performances, where she dresses up as a 54 year old cheerleader aren't cool anymore, they're creepy. We've grown up, she hasn't. She should have stuck with her original fanbase, rather trying to win over younger generations for the past 30 years.
So many gay men jealous of Madonna. Sad really.
r22 - right, that's why her tour was the biggest selling hit of last year? You're the one who feels left behind but again, Madonna is surely the one responsible for your trauma.
I can't believe how much the gays have turned against me.
I loved you!! when no one did.
Madonna, shedding a tear.
R21, But only the good die young.
Sean Penn almost killed her several times. He beat her to a bloody pulp on more than a few occasions.
Random thought but I also believe Michael would have been better off if he died in that Pepsi burn incident in 1984.
Madonna should have faded in '87. I was really hoping she would disappear by then. Just goes to show that there are die hard fans like r15 that kept her from it.
I think Madonna's only appeal is how freely or openly she marketed sex in the 1980's. Men loved that and she got promoted excessively because of beign so Provacative
She was a shock jock. It's easy to get attention that way. And good songwriters love writing for her because they know they'll get royalties. It's like designing jeans for the Gap: you know some people are guaranteed to buy them.
It was her promoting sex so openly. Outlandish outfits, sleeping with so many guys, rumors if not true. It seems any famous guy from the 80's has a madonna confession. I never thought she could sing. Still don't.
Kurt Cobain said it best about Madonna's contribution - he didn't have to resort to petty insults either:
madonna is the best pop dancer of the '80s, maybe even better than Michael Jackson, who seemed kind of one-note.
Madonna had better videos and more of them.
But did we really *need* music videos, R33? I've never quite gotten that a song needs to have "pop dancer(s)." I've hardly ever watched music videos. They're too distracting. They overtake the music.
[quote] She was the only one at the time to make fun of religion.
Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine.
With Madonna, even the hardcores admit that she doesn't have the raw talent of a Jacko. What her talent is, is actually hard to define. I'd say it was her killer instinct and pop sensibility. Basically she's more than the sum of her parts.
Some critics like Martin Amis have said that she's an "emphasis of will over talent" which is pretty hard to counter. But whether her insane superhuman drive, star quality, she has/had it.
A wicked sense of humour?? I always, from her first appearance, thought she was totally humourless. She was an OK performer to be fair, her main schtick was self promotion in a dog-eat-dog music scene. She now seems beyond humourless - desperate is the word that comes to mind. I liked her well enough back in the day, but now . . . . . . There is longevity and then there is "deserved" longevity.
How is she a sellout when she straight out said, since the start, that her objective is to be rich and famous?
I've had Lucky Star on repeat lately. What can I say, her music makes me happy, she puts on a good show, she used to be interesting. I love her.
Her glower is dour. And sour. And if she were to die tonight, I would LMAO.
[quote]The first pop star to have longevity without having talent.
Most "pop stars" are created by other people.
Madonna has ALWAYS done her own thing. Good or Bad, it's 100% her doing.
And she's still here.
That's a talent most people would kill for.
Well Kurt Cobain, she owned a record label at the time, you can't really blame her.
r34, music is only the means to the end, which is the image. The visual is Madonna's mecca. She is a performance artist. She came out of that same Danceteria scene as Klaus Nomi. He was about to go mainstream and died in '83 - she was the one who picked up the baton.
The reason Madonna feels a kinship with Britney Spears is her success as a visual avatar in pop culture - Britney's actual life tends to evoke strong emotions in people, the work mission of any performance artist.
I largely agree R34 and with her it's impossible to not think of the video when you hear the song. But the songs (or the best of them) did stand up, "Borderline" hung around the charts for ages cause it sounded great on the radio.
You're very right, R43. Britney Spears is an excellent reason to hate Madrona.
It's ridiculous that so many people buy into the "Madonna is genius at marketing herself" that the press has been feeding the public for years. Madonna is a genius at nothing. She's an average person with average talent.
Joni Mitchell, who let none other than Janet Jackson sample her hates her. It's difficult to deny that Madonna ushered in the era of the manufactured lipsynching video star and countless untalented inferior followers. So her effect on pop culture is one reason to not like her. Though she also inspired a lot of others.
r47 - NOBODY can BE a genius. People can channel genius and Madonna sometimes has. Genius is every human being's birthright.
Every Album is different.
Every Tour is different.
People still want to see what's she's going to do next.
She's never the same. She keeps moving forward.
Joni Mitchell is no swell human being, but her music is so many millions of times better than any of the swill produced by the title character.
Joni Mitchell is a persona that cultivates a sense of self-sufficient authenticity. Madonna is a chimera. Both are as contrived as the other but at least one of them knows it. Jack White made a similar comment about Bob Dylan and Britney - how is one more 'honest' than the other, seriously?
[quote]"I don't know if Bob Dylan and Tom Waits are as authentic as I think they are. Perhaps they're not. Sometimes you start thinking that maybe Britney Spears or someone like that who's doing exactly what they want to do in the way that they best know how, is more authentic than any of those people you could mention."
She was fantastic back in the Reagan-polluted 1980s because she was an overtly sexy bitch who was never afraid of being sexy or a bitch. She announced that she intended to take over the world and she fucking DID IT! You have to admire a suburban nobody with no celebrity ties/nepotism to speak of, and a goal that big, who manages to actually achieve it. Especially if she's a woman. That's pretty badass. I was never a big Madonna fan, but I liked how powerful she managed to become; she had balls.
Now I wish she'd just go away for a while... but I feel that way about a lot of the entertainment industry these days.
"I kept my promise, don't keep your distance"
No, R54. I don't have admire her. Not at all.
Joni Mitchell is the cuntiest cunt that ever cunted. She has also bashed Alanis, Sarah McLachlan and even Bob Dylan. The only artist she likes is herself.
Oh, dear. "have to admire" in R56.
Alanis deserves cunting as badly as Madrona.
Mitchell's shade to the Pet Shop Boys was hilarious Neil Tennant said to her, "I love your music" and she said "I love your videos".
I finally realized that she's the only female pop singer who is actually the product of gay culture (as being raised in a gay-centric dance environment, being part of the "circuit" when it was still called that, being best friends with her gay brother for the majority of her life, dating women such as Ingrid, etc.) as opposed to the myriad female singers of past and present of heterosexual privilege who only have appropriated things that have developed out of gay culture in order to increase record sales. Thus, I now view Madonna as an authentic representation of gay culture and understand why she's important. A few years ago, I didn't understand it. Feminists have believed that she's a shining emblem of feminism, but I think she's actually the most visible representation of queer culture in popular culture.
[quote]What her talent is, is actually hard to define.
She has a talent for ENTERTAINING. Her music and shows are ENTERTAINING.
She's never boring.
That's true, but I always think when they call someone an "entertainer" it's a euphemism for someone who can't sing, and puts on a lipsynch dance show a la Britney.
Either way, Madonna is surely better than the pop princesses that came in her wake. She is pop to the core and did some real bubblegum cheese, but she has a rock n roll attitude.
Though many would argue (like Rufus Wainwright) that the fact she thinks she's got something to say and all her pretensions make her look ridiculous. He likes Kylie who is essentially Madonna without all the politics and fun all the way.
What *was* so great about Madonna would be a better thread. There would be a lot more positive posts.
"Morning Morgantown" is Spotifying now. Real music.
I think if you weren't there r54 has the closest explanation. She just had an image of being bold that looked attractive on her at the time. The fashion was groundbreaking too. The preppie look had drained all the color out of the 80's, so black lace and red lips looked fresh. She also seemed all too human, even with all her success, because of the failed romances. You'd think it would be so easy for anyone like her to find a forever life partner, having the pick of the best and brightest of her time. Still, she couldn't make it stick. We ordinary slobs can identify with that too.
Madonna is a good performer. She can dance, her music is fun. But she isn't a musician or a vocalist. That is okay since she never pretended she was.
Actually, R68, if "she isn't a musician" (with which I wholeheartedly agree), then "pretended" is exactly what she did.