Years ago, I read an article in Harper's or The New Yorker about mothers in Polynesia or some tropical place. They massage their babies' genitals to get them to stop crying and this practice is completely acceptable.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Do you consider this to be child abuse?
What a childhood!
Momma does it best.
I'm curious, OP. Do you remember if that article said anything about that society's attitude towards incest?
I'da been acting up just so Mama would diddle me!
I call it "casting."
What constitutes appropriate and inappropriate genital contact is very culture specific. If that practice is normalized and accepted in the culture and it's not otherwise sexually exploitive, I wouldn't consider it child abuse. If the mother was getting off on doing this to her baby that would be a different story.
Oh gawd... Americans trying to be the World police.
That's why Sandusky claimed to be Polynesian!
A woman might do such an incestual thing but not the father.
Just because it's cultural doesn't mean it's not unhealthy.
I read that the practice is common in Arab countries and I wonder if it contributes to women's feelings of subservience there, and males feelings of entitlement.
My female TA for Cultural Anthropology at UCLA said soothing infants through oral sex, as well as masturbation, was common just loke older initiating younger. However the attitudes towards sexuality were so complete different that the practices could not be compared to those of the Western world.
"A woman might do such an incestual thing but not the father."
Is that why so many father sexually abuse their children?
It's kind of an urban legend that there are mothers in certain cultures who use sex to "soothe" their infants or toddlers. I heard that masturbation is used for that purpose, and I've heard that oral sex is also used for that purpose. I've heard that it's Hispanics who do this. I don't know if that's true or not. I do know that if this does happen, it IS child abuse. Masturbating your child or sucking your child's genitals? That is child sexual abuse by any definition.
I remember reading in some book about child abuse that women get away with sexually abusing children a lot more that men. It said that if a man who claimed that in his family masturbation and oral sex is traditionally used as a soothing device for babies and toddlers the police would laugh in his face. If it was a woman who said with the police would be not so sure. Anyway, it is child sexual abuse no matter what way you look at it.
It' not acceptable in the U.S.
It isn't acceptable anywhere. If this rumor is being spread it's just to paint certain cultures in a bad light.
Or are you just a sick pedo OP, trying to justify your need to touch kiddies inappropriately by calling this behaviour soothing?
Yep R15, Women get away with a lot more shit than men do. Equality my ass.
How do you know, R17, that this isn't an excepted practice in some areas of the world?
Are you making a pun R19?
Is this why some adult men are oblivious to the fact that they are groping themselves in public? I see it everywhere, streets, subways, stores.
I just want to say, feel better? Got crabs?
In the 60s my sister baby sat and knew that technique to get the kid to stop crying.
"Women get away with a lot more shit than men do. Equality my ass."
Only according to men's rights activist (mostly angry heterosexual male virgins who lash out at women because women won't have sex with them, also some gay men who are jealous that straight women get sex from straight guys)
"It said that if a man who claimed that in his family masturbation and oral sex is traditionally used as a soothing device for babies and toddlers the police would laugh in his face. If it was a woman who said with the police would be not so sure"
ROFLMAO. Love how men's rights activists make shit up.
I remember a female psych professor talked about masterbating male
cerebral palsy patients to soothe the angst they go thru.
The class was outraged and shocked and vocally chastised the Professor.
I thought it was a kind thing to do and told the class as much. The subject was never visited again.
Whether it's an ACCEPTED practice or not has nothing to do with being appropriate or even humane behavior. Like the lovely cultural practice of killing your daughter if she "shames" your family by loving someone outside of your culture. Like the wonderful "kill the gays" law in Uganda.
That's just gross and unbelievable.
Don't indulge this troll. Good grief
Let's pose this question on an airliner with a crying baby shall we?
R27, this is merely a discussion that contains sexuality.
Of all places, this should be an open opportunity to discuss other cultures, sexual practices and options for adult comment.
If it offends you so much, leave. You may not agree with this cultural practice. Indeed, say so. That is your right. But do not shut down conversation on a topic just because of your control issues.
R29, you obviously think this is some sort of sexual Algoquin Round Table here.
You couldn't be more fucking delusional if you were trying.
Dear Lord in heaven!
Concerned Swim Team Mom
Mommy, I'm feeling nervous about my test tomorrow, will you stroke me like when I was a little baby? It always calmed me down.
This reminds me of the poor kid born without arms and living into adulthood in Germany. His mother used to masturbate him regularly as he was unable to do it himself.
When a therapist found out there was a huge investigation and it was made public and she was shamed.
She believed she was 'helping the poor thing'.
R23 seems very shrill and overwrought. Maybe it's her time of the month.
Anyway, women DO get away with child sexual abuse a lot more often than men do. If a 30 year old man is having sex with a 13 year old girl the girl has been raped or sexually abused. If a woman has sex with a 13 year old boy the boy is considered "lucky."
It only words for so long.
Before you know it, they get cranky again and demand to have their hair touched up by a professional.
Caressing another person's genitals is not masturbation.
Damn, r34....It is heterosexual male culture that sees an underage boy as "lucky" when he has been sexually violed by a woman, not most women!
And, by the way, your misogyny is showing
There was a case about 20 years ago of an immigrant family from Albania who encountered trouble for this. The father was holding his daughter on his lap in a public place in full view of many people. He was holding her genital area and appeared to be fondling it through her clothing. The mother was sitting next to the father and at least one other sib. People were outraged and called the police. The family claimed that this was a common practice with children in Albania. I can't recall if he was prosecuted, but they were given a clear message that it was not acceptable. Of course, that doesn't mean anything.
I found an article with reference to that case. I have a hard time believing it.
If someone were to do this to "soothe" a crying infant though (I'm talking about INFANTS only, not children who are remotely old enough to be able to form memories), is there really any chance that it could negatively affect their development, since they would definitely have no ability to form any recollection of it?
I'm not trying to argue that it's an okay thing to do; I think it's weird and inappropriate, especially since there are plenty of other tips available for soothing infants who won't stop crying. I'm just asking a serious question for anyone who might have more knowledge on this subject than me.
I believe children are masturbated quite frequently in Vatican City.
I am an RN. In 1988 I was working at the city's public hospital which catered to primarily low income African American patients. I was taking care of a girl in her early twenties who had been in a serious car accident. One of her legs was in a cast from toes to hip and was kept elevated. Her opposite arm was in a cast from wrist to shoulder. She cried all the time and was very difficult to move and reposition. One afternoon her mother came in to visit, and without blinking an eye, pulled a vibrator out of her purse. It was one of those old fashioned pink phallic looking numbers that ran on 2 or 3 C batteries. Mom asked us to leave the room so she could "calm her baby down." We did as she asked. Nurses have seen it all, I tell you.
OP, it happens in a lot of cultures. It's straight up abuse, but those cultures don't see it that way. Link goes to lengthy article about how sexual abuse of children in various cultures is accepted for the most part. Don't read it if you're sensitive. It's disturbing.
Ancient Chinese is one culture that comes to mind for this practice. Mostly mother-son, I believe.
Just because it isn't remembered, R43, doesn't mean there isn't damage. Infants have amazing radar and they are developing fast. Things done to them do not disappear like erasing a white board when they turn three and begin to have memory.
Even if this were a culturally acceptable thing, I can't see how this wouldn't for, most children lead, to some kind of obsession or addiction to sexual stimulation in general. Anything pleasurable to humans is likely to get abused by some.
A friend used to play with her son's penis when he was a baby. No idea whether it damaged him but it certainly seemed to calm him. It's not something I would have done but I'm not much of a Puritan so I'm not sure it was wrong.
"A friend used to play with her son's penis when he was a baby. No idea whether it damaged him but it certainly seemed to calm him. It's not something I would have done but I'm not much of a Puritan so I'm not sure it was wrong."
You're "not sure it was wrong" because you're "not much of a Puritan?" Well, one thing's for certain: you are one sick fuck. And so is anybody who would "play with" her infant's penis. No doubt when he gets a little older she'll start jerking him off and she'll breastfeed him until he's 14 years old.
The author in R45's link seems as dangerous as any Christian missionary.
R51, can you even see past all of the spittle flying out of your mouth?
I said I would never consider doing such a thing. I neither condoned nor condemned her behavior because I'm not certain it was wrong. I don't tend to think in right/wrong black/white abstraction.
No, she didn't nurse him until he was 14. In fact, she was a rather disengaged mother who gave him to his father to raise when their marriage failed.
"Mommy, I'm feeling nervous about my test tomorrow, will you stroke me like when I was a little baby?"
Meanwhile, my mother would just give me Ativan before a test.
But I better not touch her valium.
they discussed this on Shah's of sunset.
R30, R35, I burst out laughing with your responses.
Listen, if it will keep the baby in the seat next to me on the plane from crying for four hours, I'm all for it.
This thread is fucking gross.
"I neither condoned nor condemned her behavior because I'm not certain it was wrong."
You're not certain it's wrong to jerk off your infant in order to "calm" him? Then there is something very wrong with you. VERY wrong.
[quote]If that practice is normalized and accepted in the culture and it's not otherwise sexually exploitive
What about prematurely flooding an infant's brain with sex hormones/chemicals?
I can just see the poster at r59 and I cannot stop laughing! My stomach hurts and tears are forming in my eyes!