Years ago, I read an article in Harper's or The New Yorker about mothers in Polynesia or some tropical place. They massage their babies' genitals to get them to stop crying and this practice is completely acceptable.
Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Do you consider this to be child abuse?
What a childhood!
Momma does it best.
I'm curious, OP. Do you remember if that article said anything about that society's attitude towards incest?
I'da been acting up just so Mama would diddle me!
I call it "casting."
What constitutes appropriate and inappropriate genital contact is very culture specific. If that practice is normalized and accepted in the culture and it's not otherwise sexually exploitive, I wouldn't consider it child abuse. If the mother was getting off on doing this to her baby that would be a different story.
Oh gawd... Americans trying to be the World police.
That's why Sandusky claimed to be Polynesian!
A woman might do such an incestual thing but not the father.
Just because it's cultural doesn't mean it's not unhealthy.
I read that the practice is common in Arab countries and I wonder if it contributes to women's feelings of subservience there, and males feelings of entitlement.
My female TA for Cultural Anthropology at UCLA said soothing infants through oral sex, as well as masturbation, was common just loke older initiating younger. However the attitudes towards sexuality were so complete different that the practices could not be compared to those of the Western world.
"A woman might do such an incestual thing but not the father."
Is that why so many father sexually abuse their children?
It's kind of an urban legend that there are mothers in certain cultures who use sex to "soothe" their infants or toddlers. I heard that masturbation is used for that purpose, and I've heard that oral sex is also used for that purpose. I've heard that it's Hispanics who do this. I don't know if that's true or not. I do know that if this does happen, it IS child abuse. Masturbating your child or sucking your child's genitals? That is child sexual abuse by any definition.
I remember reading in some book about child abuse that women get away with sexually abusing children a lot more that men. It said that if a man who claimed that in his family masturbation and oral sex is traditionally used as a soothing device for babies and toddlers the police would laugh in his face. If it was a woman who said with the police would be not so sure. Anyway, it is child sexual abuse no matter what way you look at it.
It' not acceptable in the U.S.
It isn't acceptable anywhere. If this rumor is being spread it's just to paint certain cultures in a bad light.
Or are you just a sick pedo OP, trying to justify your need to touch kiddies inappropriately by calling this behaviour soothing?
Yep R15, Women get away with a lot more shit than men do. Equality my ass.
How do you know, R17, that this isn't an excepted practice in some areas of the world?
Are you making a pun R19?
Is this why some adult men are oblivious to the fact that they are groping themselves in public? I see it everywhere, streets, subways, stores.
I just want to say, feel better? Got crabs?
In the 60s my sister baby sat and knew that technique to get the kid to stop crying.
"Women get away with a lot more shit than men do. Equality my ass."
Only according to men's rights activist (mostly angry heterosexual male virgins who lash out at women because women won't have sex with them, also some gay men who are jealous that straight women get sex from straight guys)
"It said that if a man who claimed that in his family masturbation and oral sex is traditionally used as a soothing device for babies and toddlers the police would laugh in his face. If it was a woman who said with the police would be not so sure"
ROFLMAO. Love how men's rights activists make shit up.
I remember a female psych professor talked about masterbating male
cerebral palsy patients to soothe the angst they go thru.
The class was outraged and shocked and vocally chastised the Professor.
I thought it was a kind thing to do and told the class as much. The subject was never visited again.
Whether it's an ACCEPTED practice or not has nothing to do with being appropriate or even humane behavior. Like the lovely cultural practice of killing your daughter if she "shames" your family by loving someone outside of your culture. Like the wonderful "kill the gays" law in Uganda.
That's just gross and unbelievable.
Don't indulge this troll. Good grief
Let's pose this question on an airliner with a crying baby shall we?
R27, this is merely a discussion that contains sexuality.
Of all places, this should be an open opportunity to discuss other cultures, sexual practices and options for adult comment.
If it offends you so much, leave. You may not agree with this cultural practice. Indeed, say so. That is your right. But do not shut down conversation on a topic just because of your control issues.
R29, you obviously think this is some sort of sexual Algoquin Round Table here.
You couldn't be more fucking delusional if you were trying.
Dear Lord in heaven!
Concerned Swim Team Mom
Mommy, I'm feeling nervous about my test tomorrow, will you stroke me like when I was a little baby? It always calmed me down.
This reminds me of the poor kid born without arms and living into adulthood in Germany. His mother used to masturbate him regularly as he was unable to do it himself.
When a therapist found out there was a huge investigation and it was made public and she was shamed.
She believed she was 'helping the poor thing'.
R23 seems very shrill and overwrought. Maybe it's her time of the month.
Anyway, women DO get away with child sexual abuse a lot more often than men do. If a 30 year old man is having sex with a 13 year old girl the girl has been raped or sexually abused. If a woman has sex with a 13 year old boy the boy is considered "lucky."
It only words for so long.
Before you know it, they get cranky again and demand to have their hair touched up by a professional.
Caressing another person's genitals is not masturbation.
Damn, r34....It is heterosexual male culture that sees an underage boy as "lucky" when he has been sexually violed by a woman, not most women!
And, by the way, your misogyny is showing
There was a case about 20 years ago of an immigrant family from Albania who encountered trouble for this. The father was holding his daughter on his lap in a public place in full view of many people. He was holding her genital area and appeared to be fondling it through her clothing. The mother was sitting next to the father and at least one other sib. People were outraged and called the police. The family claimed that this was a common practice with children in Albania. I can't recall if he was prosecuted, but they were given a clear message that it was not acceptable. Of course, that doesn't mean anything.
I found an article with reference to that case. I have a hard time believing it.
If someone were to do this to "soothe" a crying infant though (I'm talking about INFANTS only, not children who are remotely old enough to be able to form memories), is there really any chance that it could negatively affect their development, since they would definitely have no ability to form any recollection of it?
I'm not trying to argue that it's an okay thing to do; I think it's weird and inappropriate, especially since there are plenty of other tips available for soothing infants who won't stop crying. I'm just asking a serious question for anyone who might have more knowledge on this subject than me.
I believe children are masturbated quite frequently in Vatican City.
I am an RN. In 1988 I was working at the city's public hospital which catered to primarily low income African American patients. I was taking care of a girl in her early twenties who had been in a serious car accident. One of her legs was in a cast from toes to hip and was kept elevated. Her opposite arm was in a cast from wrist to shoulder. She cried all the time and was very difficult to move and reposition. One afternoon her mother came in to visit, and without blinking an eye, pulled a vibrator out of her purse. It was one of those old fashioned pink phallic looking numbers that ran on 2 or 3 C batteries. Mom asked us to leave the room so she could "calm her baby down." We did as she asked. Nurses have seen it all, I tell you.
OP, it happens in a lot of cultures. It's straight up abuse, but those cultures don't see it that way. Link goes to lengthy article about how sexual abuse of children in various cultures is accepted for the most part. Don't read it if you're sensitive. It's disturbing.
Ancient Chinese is one culture that comes to mind for this practice. Mostly mother-son, I believe.
Just because it isn't remembered, R43, doesn't mean there isn't damage. Infants have amazing radar and they are developing fast. Things done to them do not disappear like erasing a white board when they turn three and begin to have memory.
Even if this were a culturally acceptable thing, I can't see how this wouldn't for, most children lead, to some kind of obsession or addiction to sexual stimulation in general. Anything pleasurable to humans is likely to get abused by some.
A friend used to play with her son's penis when he was a baby. No idea whether it damaged him but it certainly seemed to calm him. It's not something I would have done but I'm not much of a Puritan so I'm not sure it was wrong.
"A friend used to play with her son's penis when he was a baby. No idea whether it damaged him but it certainly seemed to calm him. It's not something I would have done but I'm not much of a Puritan so I'm not sure it was wrong."
You're "not sure it was wrong" because you're "not much of a Puritan?" Well, one thing's for certain: you are one sick fuck. And so is anybody who would "play with" her infant's penis. No doubt when he gets a little older she'll start jerking him off and she'll breastfeed him until he's 14 years old.
The author in R45's link seems as dangerous as any Christian missionary.
R51, can you even see past all of the spittle flying out of your mouth?
I said I would never consider doing such a thing. I neither condoned nor condemned her behavior because I'm not certain it was wrong. I don't tend to think in right/wrong black/white abstraction.
No, she didn't nurse him until he was 14. In fact, she was a rather disengaged mother who gave him to his father to raise when their marriage failed.
"Mommy, I'm feeling nervous about my test tomorrow, will you stroke me like when I was a little baby?"
Meanwhile, my mother would just give me Ativan before a test.
But I better not touch her valium.
they discussed this on Shah's of sunset.
R30, R35, I burst out laughing with your responses.
Listen, if it will keep the baby in the seat next to me on the plane from crying for four hours, I'm all for it.
This thread is fucking gross.
"I neither condoned nor condemned her behavior because I'm not certain it was wrong."
You're not certain it's wrong to jerk off your infant in order to "calm" him? Then there is something very wrong with you. VERY wrong.
[quote]If that practice is normalized and accepted in the culture and it's not otherwise sexually exploitive
What about prematurely flooding an infant's brain with sex hormones/chemicals?
I can just see the poster at r59 and I cannot stop laughing! My stomach hurts and tears are forming in my eyes!
 Mommy, I'm feeling nervous about my test tomorrow, will you stroke me like when I was a little baby? It always calmed me down.
R32 Japanese mothers have been known to masturbate their teenage sons to help them concentrate on their studies.
Different strokes I guess...
[quote]No doubt when he gets a little older she'll start jerking him off and she'll breastfeed him until he's 14 years old.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
so, this offends you why? in the responses here, it seems okay for you to think sexual contact from females towards children is acceptable. Why? what is the difference? Do you think females cannot be perverts too? What is it that defines this? Law is not morality, nor is morality law. Consensus rules. How did bush get elected? if it is a perversion to show a child (hetero), when they ask, what is the point who are we as a group? it was not until about 1977 the CPA was introduced. What is the problem here? abuse is abuse, learning is learning. I know i begged to be touched when i was a child, how about you? (do not abuse kids or others) you missed the point if that's what you want to do, or for that to be justified in any way. just stop the bullshit and realize we are all human. stop hurting each other, by law, by abuse, or in anyway that harms.
Japanese mothers masturbate their school children to help them concentrate on their home work. I heard from a very prominent authority and writer on Japan.
I do it to my dog all the time. It works and beats having him jump the fence.
so, what is it being said here? is it ok to masturbate our kids or not? I do not know who makes the rules, but I know my grandpa made my sister, awkward.
This is the grooviest thing I've ever heard of!
Infants are capable of experiencing pleasure; especially when they relieve themselves (as Freud documented as nauseum). Since I don't know the physiology of infants, I cannot say for certain, but I do not believe they can achieve orgasm. So, I can't imagine how much "relief" they could receive from that practice. I've cared for many infants and while they sometimes naturally touch themselves, to imagine puposefully stimulating their genitals seems cruel and bizarre. Putting them on your lap face down and swaying your legs is a good soothing technique. They cry when they are hungry, sleepy, need a diaper change or are sick in some way. None of those problems could possibly be solved by touching their genitals. Whoever is doing that, culturally acceptable or not, is doing it for their own weird fascination and/or pleasure. Finally, I agree with the posters who say that women are given a much easier pass than men. It's almost a given that men are going to do something while women aren't - look at the airplane rule that unaccompanied minors can't sit next to a male!
i just distract my kids when they do that, like wash your hands, come have a snack, did ya get your homework done, and such.
Everyone masturbates. And if it keeps kid from crying all night, it's no big woop.
The only way we get our baby girl to stop crying is to stimulate her genitalia. Our doctor said this is normal, but to stop when she starts to talk, as she may remember this. My wife and I can tell you it does work, but is strange to do.
idk, i just like the way she tastes, so fu the rest
Oh for Christ's sake, R72. She'll stop crying eventually. Buy a pair of earplugs. Better than something that's going to fuck up all three of you for life.
Whether it works or not, the whole notion is repellent. Ugh.
If you mean what I think you mean, poster #73, I may may have to find a way to report u
Parents touch and rub their children's genitals during bathing and diaper changing - do you think this leads to feelings of sexual violation?
If it's used as soothing touch and not actual masturbation, I'm not sure I can condemn it on an intellectual level, but on an emotional level the thought is disturbing.
parlez-vous francais? These things are regular. you are prudish maybe? why so much worry on sex? if it feels good, it is good. so what of age?
I so agree! i can show so many youtube massage videos of little girls REALLY enjoying it. I guess the problem is the assholes who use and abuse them. I hate to say it out loud,but I have no problem with straight adults sharing with kids, if the girl wants it, without coercion. I really,really wanted it when i was hiding and trying to do it myself. all i wanted was another girl to teach me, lick me, hold me, show me how. But NO! why! oh, i mean, lesbian is ok too ;)
just stop lying!
Is this a little less offensive: The dads stroke their sons genitals and the mothers rub their daughters genitals.
No dads with daughters and mothers with sons.
this must be an american webpage. just you know in Norway we have no problems like this.
Yeah, go norway, you freikin viking
i see no problem here. i have been since having oral sex with my adopted daughter since i got her when she was five. she loves it. what is the problem?
"Threads I should have never opened, for $600 Alex!"
what does this mean? you have no money from me!
I agree ,., russian? when they want it, they want it. why not give it?
post 82, that is what sisters, female cousins, nieces, and schoolgirl chums are 4 ;)
RIGHT... 85, yeah, okay, um. wait another 13 years before you post about her again.
and jest wen this thred started to git intersting
With mainstream acceptance and assimilation of the former social taboo of homosexuality, incest will be the next social taboo to be challenged and normalized.
Doesn't sexual abuse, by definition, give sexual gratification to the abuser? Although I've never had a child, and my puritan upbringing tells me its just wrong, what's being discussed here seems rather primal. I'd bet the 'cave people' figured it out. I fear the hysteria more than the notion itself.
hmm, just caught this conversation. Wow, sex with young girls. k, if they have the menses, why not? ain't that nature?
menses? wtf is that? if they have a clit, and know its there, the time is right.
Dear Lord in Heaven!
Okay, this conversation is getting uncomfortable.
Yes, kids enjoy personal stimulation, but, not the same way adults do. Imagine masturbation, or sex, without ever reaching orgasm. That is what I recall from childhood. Ultimate frustration. So, leave the kids to their own when it comes to that. Just make sure they wash their hands before and after.
oh dear, and please make sure they know that this is something for there own room and not school or public places
why you even talkin bout this? you must be white folk.
DONT TOUCH YOU KIDS LIKE DAT, BEAT THEM NSTEAD :p
Sex is first and foremost about power and control. The Jewish Biblical prohibitions against parent/child sex were based on the inequality of the act. It was forbidden for a parent to sexually desire his child because of the inate child's trust in his parent and the parent's power over the child. Lot's daughters decided to have sex with their father, therefore not falling under the inequality of the act.
The woefully mistranslated Biblical prohibition against homosexuality speaks about a man having sex with a youth or boy; again, the inequality of the act.
Sexual activity between a father and his daughter was not explicitly forbidden in the Jewish Bible. It was only in the Talmud that father/daughter sex became prohibited as being an "obvious" forbidden act.
lots' daughters, not daughter. i may be drunk, but you need to quote accurately. why did they do this, what became of his wife?
odd when you can search talmud and get here
I await your reply. Why now is a gentile educating you?
well, perhaps I should be a gentle? Really no offense intended. Please do respond
I'd be concerned that the parents are getting more out of it than the infant. An infant cannot ask for that contact or agree to it. As manipulating a child would always happen in private, there is only the parents word that the infant ''required'' that manipulation or ''benefitted'' from it.
I say that as I was talking with a straight female friend one time, about when her daughter was a baby, what that was like being at home with a baby. And she had had a couple of glasses of wine and she said that breast feeding was the ''most sensuous'' thing she had ever done. I wanted to throw up. It made me see why some women keep breast feeding way past the age where the kid is on solids. Some women get a physical kick out of the intimate contact they have with their kids, (I'm not even talking about full on sexual contact which is straight forward abuse and criminal, I'm talking about a grey area of intimate contact which the mother enjoys in some quasi-sexual way) which on some level is I think an abuse of their child's dependency on them.
I agree. Mothers think they can take more because they are females. How does this make your average male feel. why is it the general consensus that simply because you're a mother everything you do is OK. Many many fathers do not have the connection to their kids therefore nor the perversion towards them. now many people have mommy issues. Many people have erroneous mommy issues.who actually wrote the Bible I mean the original first Testament?and where are you going.
R101 I typed daughterS. Put your specs on. Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt on her way out of Sdom because she turned and looked back, implying her wistfulness for sinful city G-d was about to destroy.
I'm sorry, I did not read correctly. Sincere apologies. Would you like to continue the conversation?
R108 When you're sober, no worries
I've decided to take a more active role in my son's upbringing!
i will not be back here when i am sober, but you challenge me. do you have a vent server, or something semi private to speak on?
I am playing Everquest to right nowonly for nice people.
eq2 i mean. but, time to log from this server
R111 Sleep it off. We'll meet again.
indeed, be well.
Hitting R91 will turn this thread piss yellow.
Fucking retard doesn't know that we know, lol.
Infants actually do have the capacity to store memories. It's not uncommon for an 18-month old to remember things that happened when he was a year old. Around a child's third birthday an unknown neurological process happens that essentially wipes out all previous memories. Whether they are gone or still there but just not accessible, no one knows. So don't think that a baby doesn't know or remember what's happening. He just won't keep the memories past toddlerhood.
Isn't this child abuse?
No. Just, NO !!!
How about swaddling the baby? That works great.
The West is so hung up on sex that anything even mildly resembling must be evil and abusive.
Do adults who play act as babies enjoy this "soothing" too??
This is fuckin weird
I knew an adult baby.
I agreed to play daddy one night since he was such a hot hairy hunk.
When I went to put the diaper on he began to cry, so I rubbed his belly and he moved my hand lower.
I brushed over and he began to get hard.
He cried "please don't make it hard only big boys get hard." so I kept it up. He kept crying until he made a 'messy' spunked.
He kept repeating 'baby was bad, baby has to be spanked." so I cleaned him up with a wet one, spanked him soundly, put his diaper on finally and put him in the corner.
Later when I went to bathe him he spunked again.
He thought I was 'the best daddy ever' and wanted to do it again.
I'd molested a hot hairy guy, who yes, also had a wife and I was done.
R123 that's some story lol. I have no problem with that scenario, he was a consenting adult.
I was reading some book about child molestation. It said that women get away with it a lot more often than men. And it mentioned women who perform oral sex or masturbation on infants or children, claiming that in their family such practices were used as a soothing device. It said that if a man used that as an excuse the police would laugh in his face but if a woman says it they're not so sure.
Anyway, it's child molestation, no matter what anybody says.
In countries where it's considered acceptable to "soothe" an infant with masturbation... do the adults have "adult baby" fetishes?
I doubt any culture who does this views it as sexual at all
pedos are taking over this website
They are, R128 Sickos all.
This site is a mess. And what in hell prompted R64 to bump a two year old thread?