Fag hags who get married and suddenly turn conservative and anti-gay
Anyone else experienced this? It's happened with a couple of girls I was very close with over the years.
We're talking girls who partied in college, were best friends with all the gay guys, super liberal, etc. And then when they finally get married, they do a 180.
Of course everyone changes when they get married, but to suddenly decide that you're against gay marriage, pro-life, and a Republican is insane to me.
One of my very close friends- an old roommate in fact- has recently done this. It got worse after she had her first child last year. Now it's all about the church and her husband (who's in the Army, no less) and being a "stay-at-home mommy". But what really bothers me is the "I'm not sure about gay rights" comments she's dropped the last few times we've spoken. At this point I'm ready to write her off, but it's incredible she would do this.
A mutual friend blames her husband for changing her, but I blame her entirely. Sad.
There's nothing more virtuous than a reformed drunk or a retired whore.
My sister won't allow me into her home because I might spill the beans on her in front of her perfect family. I wouldn't but she can't "take that chance".
PS, her son is a flaming baby fag. Wait til she discovers that.
I know women who lose their identity once they get married. They take on their husband's views and just seem to stop thinking on their own. It's almost like in the back of their mind they buy into being subservient to the man.
Many people become conservative once they "get theirs", whatever it happens to be.
People change. It is part of life.
Fraus forget all about their college abortions and identify as pro-life after they pop out their babies.
It's called Patty Weaver Syndrome.
[quote]At this point I'm ready to write her off,
She obviously wrote you off but you didn't get the message if you're still thinking about being ready.
Many republicans are pro gay!!!
I had the same problem OP. At least 4 girls I used to hang out with suddenly changed once the boyfriend/husband came into the picture.
Straight women seem to never trust each other but if a man says something, they believe it hook, line and sinker. Why is that ladies?
They don't change because they gained some new knowledge, they change because the man in their life is everything to them so how could he ever be wrong?
You come to realize later, they were never on you side to begin with. You as a gay man were just a segregate to fill in the guy time until they found their dream husbands.
So while they were with you, they were pro gay and liberal, now that the husband is conservative, they are conservative soccer mom.
The worst part is....they think and talk like they have just been enlightened and you just have not wised up yet.
their pussies are cold and lonely.
Their Shape Shifters. Borne with no spine it's easy to take on any form as long as it gets you want you want. DICK.
This happened to my best friend from college. Total fun loving party girl, then "found Jesus" at 26 and started telling all her friends they were going to hell.
She later ended up marrying a MUCH (20+) older man who wears some sort of promise ring on his pinkie. I was expressly forbidden from talking to any of her church friends about anything that might have embarrassed her -as if I would have ever done that - at this point I had been married for 10 years and was well out of the party scene.
who cares? gaY MEN hate their hags anyway, because they are jealous
r12, serious mommy issues, because he wishes he was a woman
Gawd, one of my old waitress pals, now on her second (Catholic) marriage is a huge Republican cunt, while still being hard working, funny and way too smart for her ridiculous right wing haus frau shenanigans! Maddening!
What? R14? Gay men take care of their hags because they fell sorry for them, not jealous.
They will do anything to have a man, even sacrifice their own convictions.
LOL r17. Gay men have NO empathy
r18. oh and fags would not?
Women are easily dickmatized. I've seen smart, independent, fun-loving girls turn into Stepfords whose entire lives revolve around their man once they snag one. They cease to think for themselves or have any real friends. They'll throw everyone else (including other women) under the bus because they think their man can do no wrong.
Women are weird when it comes to friendship. They seem to only want friend in identical situations as them, not friend from other realities.
So if hag is single, her other friends are all single. If hag is married, then most of the friends need to be married. If hag has baby, then friends all seem to have babies.
Guys don't do that. Once a friend always a friend no matter what we once had in common. Single, married, doesn't factor in at all.
Men = common interests
Women = common situations
No R18, gay men will hold their ground even when picking out a lamp shade at Ikea. If they do not agree that relationship is not going anywhere.
Everyone ignore and F&F psychotic R20. She's the resident "bisexual" slag who's been spewing anti-gay shit for awhile now. She's convinced that gay men are jealous of her rank, diseased pussy. She must have no life, job or friends as she has been posting non-stop all day.
Oh right R17, if gay men had no empathy they would not have marched along with blacks in many of the civil rights movements, or started Act Up which forced attention on the AIDS crisis or create the AIDS quilt in everyone memory. Right, gay men have no empathy.
LOL most men are pussy whipped
Gay men ONLY have empathy for themselves. AIDS? puleeze!!!. Also, gay men had nothing to do with the civil rights act. They were not even remotely visible
Men do this too.
Most people do not understand social issues and conflicts and do not want to think. They "think" whatever they feel to be in their best interests, usually to lessen any conflicts with people on whom they depend for material things and social status. Even some of our allies are like this. Why did gay rights suddenly go from 2% losses to 5% wins in 2012? Almost certainly at least 5% of the people changed their votes because of Obama. Even though nobody would rate him an expert on either morality or human sexuality. But he has power and controls social status for many groups in society.
r25, you must be all those things to post non stop all day!!! Now go wash your diseased asshole
I had three friends that basically did this. I thought they were smart, but it all went by the wast side once a man came into their life.
The funny part is now they are all divorced and want to hang out with me again.
I dont give them much time because basically they just want someone to fill helping them move, buying them dinner, and taking them out dancing while they look for another looser to blow me off for.
Click on r 30 and see her floppy pussy posts light up like the yellow pus that leaks from her clot!
r23, not with a STRAIGHT man or a masculine hot gay one
[quote] Everyone ignore and F&F psychotic [R20]. She's the resident "bisexual" slag who's been spewing anti-gay shit for awhile now. She's convinced that gay men are jealous of her rank, diseased pussy. She must have no life, job or friends as she has been posting non-stop all day.
I F&F that moron on the basis of being a Repug/freeper.
Wrong R28, I fell sorry for you. What a sad view of the world.
Gay men certainly were part of the black movement just like some straight people are part of the gay rights movement. We just didn't have a sigh around our head with GAY on it at the time.
Let me correct that for you, R9.
Most Republicans are anti-gay gays.
r32, uber racist and female hater!! POOR thing probably suffering from AIDS related dementia
I think there are some "fag hags" who are genuinely cool people and enjoy being friends.We will call them Type #1.
But there are others who are latent homophobes who try to overcompensate, or have some prurient fascination with man on man action.
They usually signal this by being a little too explicit with their own sexual conversations, too many questions, fascination with the way you may or may not display affection to another man.
Type #2 will also hang around you because she has some latent or expressed insecurity about ever finding a man. So she pretends and gets very proprietary with you. She is fiickle and unstable and unreliable. Very uneven. Almost menopausal and hyper sensitive.
it doesn't matter whether you're straight or gay, there's always a change in your relationships with other people once you get involved in a serious relationship.
So add to the mix, Type two, who was also glad to have the attention of a man even if he was gay. Now she doesn't need to feel close to a gay man because she has a "real" man.
OP, I have no idea what you're talking about!
r35, well after prop 8 I SAW how the gay "community" treated black folk. HORRIBLE
ALSO, posssiblity 3 is that many Hags are repressed dykes
I only had one female friend out of the bunch that didn't flip to the dark side when she got married. Husband was very much on that other side too. So for that I give her props.
But for the others, well it was like "my man is so smart, you just don't understand the world" "I used to think like you too, but now I have grown up"
R40=provocateur, purveyor of lies.
R26, you must be talking about black gays. I'm not aware of any non-black gays who were involved in The Civil Rights Movements. If there were, would you mind providing a link or cite your source, please? Thanks.
Troll Dar Alert R40
[quote]Also, gay men had nothing to do with the civil rights act. They were not even remotely visible
Tell that to Bayard Rustin.
[quote]well after prop 8 I SAW how the gay "community" treated black folk. HORRIBLE
Yes, it was a tragic and shameful episode of cross burnings, church bombings and intimidation... Oh wait! It was a few tired and omnipresent racists on an anonymous website spewing the same shit they always do.
Well R40, if there was any animosity towards blacks during prop 8, it was only because we supported them during their struggle, but they turned on us when it was our struggle.
Got it? Good.
Besides, most of that was from the Black churches and the mormon influx of money, not black people as a group.
But the gays who supported blacks during their struggle were also black. And I have to be honet and say that the backlash after Prop 8 further fractured an already fractured relationship between white and black gays and it's not the worst thing in the world to acknowledge that. But let's not get too far off topic. The OP probably hates us right now.
r47 is a delusional self entilted fag
She's losing her identity to him and the rug will be pulled from beneath her if and when he leaves her.
You can tell who will turn out like this when you're a teenager. Follower or leader. Probably copycats.
If a woman either thinks of herself as a "fag hag," or is thought of by a gay man as such, there is already a dysfunctional relationship there. QED.
Good point. I know it's not meant to be offensive and it doesn't offend me. The term has just never appealed to me. I prefer friend. But to each their own. No judgement.
What I am totally against is the sorry gay guy who buys into that Christian turn you straight talk (like Michelle Bachman's husband sells in his clinic), that convinces vulnerable gay men who want to change to marry a woman.
So unfair! The poor sucker woman gets a man who really prefers men (how many of those formerly gay Christian men actually really make the change?) and is stuck with a sham marriage.
People need to love who they are deeply attracted to, and if that is a person of the same sex, that's who they should marry (if marriage is what they want).
Good point @ 53. "Fag hag" implies a superficial relationship bounded by a womens attachment to men solely due to their orientation/gayness. Why would you become friends with such women??
This brings me to another question, why do some gay men seem needy of female relationships?
Of course there are exceptions, but generally:
Women easily look at their male objects of affection as gods, and (worst case scenario) absorb all of their interests like an open can of soda absorbs the flavor of the fridge. There are women who wear the pants, but that's another story.
Straight men, however, perpetually need a female to "enter," so they can feel empowered. Any affection and smooth-talking is ultimately about pussy, or keeping the peace so that they can remain in the comfortable dynamic they have with the woman. That's all it is.
Interestingly, when it comes to fronting a persona, I think men are usually much better at it than women. (This considered, I don't know how anyone could date an actor: this principle is multiplied by like 89000000 in the case of actors).
I think soulmates, if they exist, are rarely in the form of romantic partners. The crap touched upon above is usually at least somewhat how it goes in a romantic partnership contract.
It's people in general. One thing FB has taught me is that the arty alternative little group I ran around w/ was just a bunch of selfish shits aping what they thougjt was cool. They got brainwashed by Rush a week into their commute.
[quote]I know women who lose their identity once they get married. They take on their husband's views and just seem to stop thinking on their own. It's almost like in the back of their mind they buy into being subservient to the man.
OP, this is such a good thread - I thought I was the only one whose noticed this shit. I used to love having female friends, but now I've become kind of hesitant to being friends with them because you don't know if they're going to turn on you once they get married and/or have kids. It's like they become brainwashed wimps suddenly who are desperate to please their "man". Whatever. When it all falls apart down the road, don't crawl back wanting to be friends again.
Really, everything changes once the babies come along. Don't blame the husbands entirely. People's values change significantly once they become parents--usually more conservative, due to perceived threats to their kids' safety and wellbeing.
I've always managed to avoid fag hags but have observed some from nearby. Most are needy and have a difficult time in attracting a straight man. Thus they hang with gay men until they finally entrap a straight man.
This thread is filled with truths.
I still have my "gay filler in friend", and my husband & I have made him part of our "family". We don't have children.
But my friend claims I've "become a Republican since I've left the city". Maybe.
Lots to think about in this thread. Carry on.
OP here. R53, I kinda regret using the term "fag hag", because I realize it's distracting and not accurate. With the particular person I was describing, it's not what I called her or nor how she would've called herself. I just used it as slang for this thread.
We actually had a deep, long friendship. As I said I've seen it among many female friends, but the more "acquaintance" types, I could care less what they end up doing.
R56, I can't speak for all gay men, but I'm hardly needy of female relationships. What I do like, however, is having a diverse group of friends- gay, straight, black, white, young, old, male, female. I find it strange when gay men have only gay male friends.
What does that say about you R25 when you have trolldared that poster and stalked them thru the threads?
Also: hell hath no fury like a woman whose friend(s) or acquaintances tell her something negative or disconcerting about "Her Man."
You might say, "well it's none of your business," and you'd be right. BUT, women who do this usually directly or indirectly summon opinions on the guy from everyone. On their terms, they want EVERYONE they know to sing his praises. Well, if I honestly can't, I won't. And some guys are "good guys," but might have something in the past the makes things iffy about my opinion. Good guys are capable of leaving or straying, among other things. The girl wants to hear, "he's a keeper!"
That's why I hate to say anything about guys my friends are dating, unless a guy is being obviously abusive.
Give him/her a few years, they'll be back out of the closet and be gay again. Their cuurent behavior is called 'denial.'
Lez here. Thank God my sister and only remaining sibling never got into that wifey-poo bullshit. Thrilled that she is cooler and more open-minded than most straight women...
Oh! R65, it's like on Buckwild when Shay's boyfriend was hitting on all of her friends, but she thought that they were all lying about it and making it up for some weird reason, even though she had been friends with them for years! Women are so bizarre, right?
I have not read the thread OP so I am coming from only reading your original post.
Personally I do not know any women in my 59 years who have knowingly married gay men. I know one woman who married a bisexual man, someone I grew up with. They have been married for more than 30 years now and have two daughters. They are moderate Democrats and I have no idea if the male partner has acted out his bisexual nature.
I don't really worry about a "fag hags" (yes that colors your post as negative, and pidgeon holing people) marrying gay men then become homophobic. I am sure it happens for one reason or another. I am sure some black people who make a pile of money become conservative and forget perhaps how they got to where they were in the name of greed.
But I do not worry about the moral and ethical digression of other people. I cannot do anything about it, and I suppose just as many others move in the right direction- in this case from homophobia to equal treatment for all. Indeed on the issue of gay marriage that is what seems to be the case.
The world is tough enough in my opinion to lead me to turn away from those who fall into bad thinking or habits. I am not looking for people to dislike. I will not worry about women who become homophobic, or men, or anyone in particular because I really have no control over it. To the degree that I live out of the closet, I think, is the best I can do to help rid the world of homophobia- although not perfectly.
[quote]Lez here. Thank God my sister and only remaining sibling never got into that wifey-poo bullshit. Thrilled that she is cooler and more open-minded than most straight women...
Oh yes, because ALL straight women who marry are "uncool and closed minded."
Admit it bitter, jealous old Lez, you're just happy you don't have to endure all the family fawning and approval she would get if she followed a more traditional path and spawned.
Um, wifey-poo, grow a thicker skin! Did that stupid nickname hit too close to home?
i am a 'wifey-poo' too on some level, as i have been with the same woman for 20 years and we are raising a child together.
Your knee-jerk response about not spawning reveals much about your prejudices & ignorance about lesbians.
Unfortunately R22 is absolutely right about the vast majority of women (although I think some men also do it). They don't just pull the about-face on gay male friends, they also do it to other female friends who are in different situations, such as without a man or baby. As a single female, you become useless to another single female friend once she gets a man. Then she only wants to 'double date' with other couples.
I think it's weakness of personality, but also aided by societal pressures and is part of how humans have evolved. Maybe one day we'll evolve beyond being such cunts.
I had my kid and my single friends straight and gay abandoned melike I had an STD.J
It happens, but they are in the minority.
I never identified as a "fag hag", but always had some gay and lesbian friends; our friendship grew because of our shared nerdiness, not orientations. Once I got married, that didn't change. We were two of the three people who drove to Iowa to support his cousin when he married his boyfriend (the rest of his family basically shunned him).
Sadly, my sister went this route. She got married, and all of her previous liberal views did a 180, and she spent our phone conversations spouting Fox talking points at me. It was sad and frustrating, to lose the fun and open-minded woman she used to be.
My point, I guess, is that you can't paint us all with such a broad brush. Even when you're genetically similar, there's no telling which way you're going to go. No matter what, it's sad when someone changes so drastically.
R64, I know that.
Why is it always the other person being defensive?
Have you ever asked yourself that?
Frankly, I think it's the pressure "society" puts on people to be married.
Married couples have more clout, they get breaks and are looked upon by the rest of society as the "ideal state".
I think once people reach this "ideal state", they are more easily threatened by their single friends - for whatever reason.
R78, That concept might be part of why celebrities, who have reached a point where they are set for life, seem threatened by basically everything. The "more" you "have," maybe?
I know gay men who lose their identity once they get married. My brother was a hippy liberal in the 70s, moved to SF and met his long-time partner who is a LCR. Suddenly my brother is no longer a hippy liberal and is pro War and pro Bush (voted for him both terms). He also told me I was a "fucking idiot" for being against the Iraq war. I never understood LCRs. Why would you support a political entity that doesn't support you?
People who easily adapt to the identity of their significant others don't have a true identity to begin with...
Interesting point, r79.
In the case of celebs, I think a lot of it has to do with their latent insecurity. Many of the "fame whores" crave celebrity because they are insecure in the first place and need the attention/validation of celebrity.
It would make sense, then, to be threatened by everything once you've attained your "ideal state".
I went to college at a small liberal-arts school known for its high proportion of gays. I knew a party-hearty sorority girl there who hung with the theatre fags. (The Greek system was nothing like those at other schools -- very laid-back and inclusive.) She was ostensibly straight, although she had a butch vibe about her. Fast-forward nearly 30 years and she's a fundie Teahag who's worked her way up to state political office. Even named her kids after her conservative political heroes. Now more than ever I think she's a deeply closeted lez.
People become conservative when they grow up mentally and gains some common sense.
A lot of men lose their identity too and become pussy whipped once they get married. I knew a guy whose wife made him get rid of all his punk records because she didn't like his taste in music.... "oh Honey, you don't need these anymore"
Sorry, larry that's not true, and if you lived your life with more insight than a fortune cookie, you would know that.
I find the word fag hag offensive. But anyway, I had a friend, she was attractive, intelligent and outgoing. We were best friends. Then she got married and slowly her husband's religion and views have become hers to the point where I can't be around her. It's quite sad.
The whole fag hag thing never appealed to me. It's not a healthy relationship and I am not surprised the dynamic would change when she finds a partner. Then her "hag" status no longer applies and she becomes a new person. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.
Gays and straights both change once they are coupled. The degree of influence varies with the mental health of the person.
Traditional fag hags (from my youth) were dumpy straight women who were madly in love with "their" fag. Often the gay guy would string her along; I even know one who slept with his.
I can almost see why that type would be bitter, hold a grudge and vote against gay marriage.
I think it's odd that so many people do 180's once married. In a healthy relationship wouldn't they know each others social, religious and political affiliations before marriage and accept that person for who they are. I'm a straight female who votes democrat and have gay friends and am very independent. I'm dating a man who is a bit more conservative than I am but hardly a right winger. He has viewpoints I don't agree with but we are able to discuss these things without fighting and respect each others opinion. I would not change if we married and I certainly wouldn't expect him to be some pussy-whipped slave and give up his hobbies/friends for me and I would never ask him to. Maybe that comes with maturity. We are both late 40's.
I guess what I'm trying to say is there seems to be a hell of a lot of unhealthy relationships between really selfish, insecure people.
To me the term works only in retrospect and almost always means she becomes a bitter homophobe.
I agree with R90. If a woman is labeled "fag hag," retrospectively or otherwise, there is a reason she was making a point about surrounding herself with gay men in particular.
Now, there are things that the gay men in the relationship do and say that are subject to equal analysis and criticism, but I'll speak about the pertinent women first:
Men are men. Gay men may not feel like they have a lot of power in comparison to straight men, but gay men are still empowered above women in several ways. There is a type of false approval that women are seeking from gay men, and men in general, if they become what we thing of as a fag hag in the slang terminology.
Women like that are never going to get enough approval from anyone, so they may resent whoever they sought it from, except for who agreed to settle down with them. That, of course, is just part of it, and there are always exceptions.
Larry, study after study has found that smart people get MORE LIBERAL as they age. I saw it with my dad. A brilliant guy with patents on products that you'll probably use this week. He left the Republican party and voted for Clinton in 1994. He's appalled that he was ever a Republican.
hugs to your dad, r92!
R92, he's posting repugnant vile on other threads.
indeed, people simply become MORE of what they were younger.
larry has a small penis.
Society values straight, married couples because they have children, which further enriches the tax base. It's always about money.
I don't think there is one answer.
One factor is tribalism. Conservative people tend to be more tribal. They need to belong to a group and they are fiercely protective of their group (tribe). The have an "us against them" world view. In this case, the women are gay friendly early in life, because that is the view of the tribe. when they get married and switch tribes, they take on the views of that tribe. This may also apply to other tribes such as work. I wonder if the woman sited above would have risen as high in state politics if she had retained her Gay friendly views.
Another factor would depend on whether the catalyst is marriage or motherhood. As liberal as many women are, they don't want their sons to be Gay. I think they develop homophobia as a sort of voodoo magical thinking that it will prevent their sons from being Gay.
Re: R91 you are generally wrong. Women are higher in the pecking order that Gay men. There may be a few exceptions in certain professions, but as a rule , Gay men are considered even more subordinate than women. In the workplace there is still the notion that the Gay man only has value as the confident/ court favorite to the woman and can only rise if on the skirt hem of a woman.
[quote]Re: [R91] you are generally wrong. Women are higher in the pecking order that Gay men.
I'm generally not wrong. But I can understand how you may feel that way.
[quote]In the workplace there is still the notion that the Gay man only has value as the confident/ court favorite to the woman and can only rise if on the skirt hem of a woman.
This "general" nonsense supports my statement above.
And women who hang with gay men were never really part of their tribe. There's no actual switching; it's illusion-based. I can assure you that most of the time, the two parties (woman + gay men or men) are rarely after the same thing by being friends with the other.
The Gay male/fag hag dynamic isn't what one would call a true friendship. It it mostly gay men blowing off steam to a women they don't find attractive. The fag hag is usually an older and/or heavier type that does not threaten to take away any attention from the fag.
When fag hags figure this out they move on.
R92, same with my mom. Clinton was the turning point for her and she never looked back. Before she died, she was anti-Republican in a big way.
segregate - oh dear, r10.
One of my girl pals wouldn't leave me alone, kept visiting me, lunches at least once a week, going along with all the gay things. Then once she got her fella doesn't bother me any more. Suits me. I should have realised when I told her Irish singer Brian Kennedy was gay - she had all his records but lost interest in him after that!
I find it helpful to trolldar R9 when reading this thread. That is some off-the-charts level of cray-cray.
[quote]He left the Republican party and voted for Clinton in 1994.
That's unfortunate, since 1994 wasn't a even a Presidential election year.
Sounds like a completely contrived scenario designed to push queeny buttons. Mince prisspots, mince!
I cant tell you how many times I have seen this happen. Its always a woman. When they were younger, they partied hard, slept around, one was even a pole dancer. Then sometime around mid 30s, something snaps. Maybe they realized, as we all do, they could no long live the wild and crazy life. But instead of just mellowing out, they do a 90 degree turn and become insufferable bible thumpers and never let pass an opportunity to judge and tell others how horrible they are and how they will burn in hell. Its like they had their fun and now that they know they can no longer do so, they dont want ANYONE to have fun. Deep down inside they are really miserable and feel everyone else should be as well.
Well, it isn't ALWAYS a woman, but yes. I thought some of my classmates in high school and college, male and female, were going to end up in a ditch somewhere, and I also perceived many of them as unintelligent because they only cared about partying and being popular. Then...snap. They somehow became eloquent and started to tell others and their children not to do things that did themselves...except, they'll typically not admit (or profusely deny) that they did these things themselves.
To be clear R107, in my experience its always women but I have no doubt it could happen to a guy as well.
I am reminded of one of the women I described above. In the town where I went to school there was a nightclub that had a measure of fame, mostly because the bands that frequently played there became famous and the DJ had a gig on MTV for a while. One year they took a picture of the crowd of regulars hanging outside and printed them up as post cards to sell. Fast forward a few years, and a friend found one of the old postcards and was passing it around one night when former party animal/present churchy girl freaked out. "Who did this? Where did you get this? Are they still selling these?" (they were not) The knowledge that that there was photographic proof of her wild and crazy past put her into total panic mode. She began screaming she was going to sue the nightclub and force them to recall all the post cards sold. She may have found Jesus, but she certainly lost her brain in the process.
I had a faghag who DIDN'T get married and turned Fundie (yes, she's obese). I think she wanted to be married to me, and kept the ruse up so long, and just gave up and married Jesus. She's a bore now and I haven't spoke to her in years.
Her Facebook is all "Support Our Troops" and shit. But perversely, she uses a pic of Anna Nicole Smith as her photo.
r109. did you ever lead her on? back in the day. flirt a little? tell her she looked pretty when she really didn't?
No, Gwyneth- I didn't. She wasn't attractive, I wasn't attracted to her and I like the mens.
But it is true that once I started to feel more confident about being out, and sharing the news with her- she turned chillier.
As a lesbian who used to party a lot with gay men in my youth (most lesbians were too serious then) I knew lots of straight women who hung out with the boys. Most seemed to think they were being cool, rebellious, and they liked the attention. They liked having guys to shop with, talk about sex with guys, going dancing and clubbing. But for the most part they were not their own persons, rather they were a reflection of the guys around them. They were not the most independent, confident women around other straight people, they only became "ballsy" when they hung out with the boys. It is no surprise that when they became part of the straight world, they reflect the attitude of those around them. Nor is it much of a surprise that they do not partner with liberal men who like independent women.
R112 nails it. She nails it hard.
Sure, [R83], whatever you need to tell yourself.
My husband and I make a very good living, have no debt aside from one car, and are extremely responsible. Our views are pretty much what they were when we started dating (though at some point, I went from being pro-death penalty to being against it, go figure) in our early- and mid-20s.
Perhaps people who marry too young, and haven't had a chance to figure out who they are and what they believe in, change more?
People become more liberal and open-minded when they are better educated. Sort of shines a light on why so many fundies are so anti-education, doesn't it?
Sounds like the OP's once pro-gay BFF has been listening to Dr. Laura
I have had this experience. A friend in college and I used to get in a lot of trouble. She was liberal, we acted together, smoked a lot of pot in the dorms together, we'd go to raves (it was the early 2000s) and have a lot of innocent fun rolling our faces off. A few years later, she moves out to Vegas and eventually, after a few bum relationships, finds herself a republican boyfriend and she starts going to Bible study with him. Soon, they're hitched. Votes for Bush because her husband told her to. Two kids later, she's the only person to ever go to Vegas and find God.
I visited her a few times, each time a bit more tense until it blew up. I wanted to try going to a gay club after a day shopping on the strip. Just to see what Vegas gay life (HA!) is like. Big blow up, because her husband won't want to go (of course, she's not going out anywhere without him, even a with harmless friend from college) and of course neither can go on principle. She actually told me to my face that being gay was a sin!
I'm not a hateful person, she's misguided, but she thinks I am too. But I can't waste energy on hating her...So luckily, since she's out west, I can keep this former very close friend at a distance.
The sad thing is that she was a promising actress, and that is something I absolutely loved about her. She's classically gorgeous, too. She could have made it if she hung on and took rejection better. But she settled. And to me, that's unforgivable.
[quote]The sad thing is that she was a promising actress, and that is something I absolutely loved about her. She's classically gorgeous, too. She could have made it if she hung on and took rejection better. But she settled. And to me, that's unforgivable.
Unforgivable? I could understand losing some or all respect for her because she got sucked into dogma and a religious man like that. Hopefully that's what you meant. I say, never lose respect for someone because they decide not to pursue acting.
Seriously though, there are many reasons why women become discouraged easily when trying to live up to their passions or talents. No small part of it is because men in our culture, gay and straight alike, either don't have much empathy, are threatened by women, or expect women to be a certain way.
My sister is unfortunately one of those who has given up her identity completely to her husband and his world views.
I came out a few years after they were married so I don't know if she would have been any more accepting before, though I believe she would have, but I certainly don't think I would get the I accept you but still have no problem telling you that you are going to hell attitude that I do, which is why we rarely have contact unless it is about our mutual relatives.
I've told my partner so many times how much I wish they had a chance to meet before she got brainwashed.
This is such a sad thread. There are a lot of people out there -- both men and women -- who feel lost and adrift in life. When someone comes into their world and offers stability and an "anchor" of sorts, it can feel very comforting.
"When they were younger, they partied hard, slept around, one was even a pole dancer. Then sometime around mid 30s, something snaps"
Sounds like they grew out of bad behavior. It is a good thing that someone would stop doing destructive and/or immoral acts. Thankfully, people are free to move on to a better life being a better person.
and what do you consider immoral acts, pray tell?
typical DL woman-hating BS
They're hypocrites. They were wild in their youth and, not that they're trying to suck up to who they pray to, they're getting right with themselves for the remainder of their lives.
That is a group of people who are not worthy of keeping company -- and, not just that, they're the punch-and-delete kind. None of them are worth getting emotional ... just put them in the past and allow the passing of time to make that grow even further distance.
[italic]R125 with a correction:[/italic]
They're hypocrites. They were wild in their youth and, [bold]now[/bold] that they're trying to suck up to who they pray to, they're getting right with themselves for the remainder of their lives.
That is a group of people who are not worthy of keeping company -- and, not just that, they're the punch-and-delete kind. None of them are worth getting emotional ... just put them in the past and allow the passing of time to make that grow even further distance.
R118, you're trying to blame him for her homophobia? Buy a clue!
Women will slut it up til they naba meal tiket. Once they get that ring, they can burn their push-up bras and get out the granny panties.
Wait, OP. In the case of your friend, I disagree about the "punch and delete" mentality. I think that's a little harsh if you really did have a cherished friendship with her (which you claimed later in the thread).
These things are tricky in reverse, as well. What if someone who REALLY meant something to you, and had always been nice, just went ballistic one day and committed a terrible crime?
Some people make the "excuse" that "that's not who they really are." Well, maybe it's who they became. Maybe it isn't. But what you DO know are the things about the friendship that enriched your life (if they did).
If you want closure, one way is to say, "I'm sorry we don't see eye-to-eye on some things that we both find very important. Maybe we shouldn't speak to each other like we used to, but I'll always love you as a friend."
If you feel that strongly about it. If you don't, than I don't understand why you'd ask for commiseration about this sort of thing. Or if you don't care, than you were probably fudging about the friendship meaning anything to you.
r129, given all you have said on the abortion thread, I think it's safe to say you can be ignored.
R130, I'm Pro-Choice.
Many fag hags are homophobic from the start, without even being aware of it. The real reason a lot of them hang around gay men is because they see them as 'ideal boyfriend' material and hope eventually to convert them.
Maybe for you, R133. Maybe for you.
I eat shit.
I worked with a girl who did this. She became a huge conservative voting for McCain in 2008 because her husband told her to. She also refused to have her sons vaccinated because she said vaccinating leads to autism. Cut to today, she's divorced from her husband and both sons are autistic. Womp-womp.
R138 So many of these women turn into dickmatized wimps with no backbone as soon as they get married and do whatever their husband tells them to do. It's pathetic.
In my circle, they're all Catholics. Usually on their second marriages, and one with twins born out of wedlock. Ooookaaaaaay!
Fag hags are mentally disturbed anyway
Tea Party women all have anti-gay Fathers or Husbands.
Well, they hate you already, so why not fuck their husbands when you get a chance?
[quote]Fag hags are mentally disturbed anyway
Sadly, I agree with this. I used to despise the ones in high school because it's not like they just wanted to be friends, but it was like you were their accessory. I can't explain it, but they really are weird.
My guess is that they become anti-gay when they realize they can't get a hot guy, so they have to settle for some loser and they get angry at the world.
Patty Weaver who played Gina on Y&R
This thread is the sad truth. Keep the stories coming.
"There's nothing more virtuous than a reformed drunk or a retired whore."
Love this line. So true.
I'm telling you, it has something to do with women changing their names. It's not an innocuous practice. When you change your name for someone, it's only a matter of time before you change the rest of your identity as well.
These posts alone just confirmed why I avoided the fag hag situation my entire life. I had no interest in women & didn't want to be their "entertainment" til something better (like their husband), came along.
So stop glomming onto them. Develop male friendships, instead of hanging with fraus and dykes all the time.
If gay men don't stop hating each other and dividing up into silly groups (bear, twink, daddy, jock, hipster, etc.) we're never going to reach our goals.
there is a huge difference between women(gay and straight) who have gay friends just because, not because it's cool or hip
True, a distinction needs to be made between female friends and "fag hags." Two different species.
Often women don't care about politics until they get married--then they take on whatever politics the husband cares about.
[quote]But what really bothers me is the "I'm not sure about gay rights" comments she's dropped the last few times we've spoken. At this point I'm ready to write her off, but it's incredible she would do this.
Why would you tolerate this even once? If one of my friends or anyone I knew ever made a statement to me along the lines of "I'm not sure about gay rights," I would confront them on the spot.
I would ask them directly what they meant by that statement. Unless I had seriously misheard them or misinterpreted their meaning, I would argue the point vehemently. If they held their ground or offered any resistance, the friendship would be over then and there, and I would make that fact abundantly clear, as well as the reasoning that led to it.
Some of you just boggle the mind. Unequivocal support for gay equality is a requisite for my friendship. This is non-negotiable, end of story. I might try to change a new aquaintance's mind if I thought it was worth the effort, but an established friend that starts changing their tune or reveals previously obscured "true feelings?" They'd get a piece of my mind and a brief window of redemption before being permanently deleted.
Lots of doormats here.
Yeah, I know of so many chicks that were radical leftists in college. Now, some of them are diehard conservatives who homeschool six kids.
[quote]Often women don't care about politics until they get married--then they take on whatever politics the husband cares about.
no...it's when women start having children and now every little corner in their world has to be childproofed which includes politics.
I actually know two former fag hags that have gone to borderline conservatism. They are still for marriage equality, but they frown on anybody having fun like they used to when hanging out with the boys. It's rather ironic, they both married liberal, free thinking men. It's like suddenly the women found their center-point and have a maternal need to reprimand.
I suppose all the years of chasing gay men, all the frustration, all of the pent-up emotion finally released.
R153, I hate when Morris said the following about her fiance college baseball player Taylor Hubbell:
"I want to marry him so bad. That's what I really care about. I want to marry Taylor and have kids with him. I love acting, but if it affects my relationship, then I won't continue doing it."
So she'll give up something she loves for a man?
So is the relationship between Will & Grace unrealistic? When Grace married Harry Connick, Jr. she didn't ditch Will. In fact, her relationship with Will interfered in her marriage and she ended up putting Will above Connick.
Will and Grace was a sitcom and therefore had nothing to do with reality. The creators had to keep that relationship primary against all dramatically coherent odds because they backed themselves into a creative corner from the get-go.
There's this saying that goes: "When whores grow old they become pious." It's always the school sluts and bullies who end up being sanctimonious pricks. Maybe it's a hormonal thing.
As someone else noted, there are fag hags and there are female friends. I've never had a fag hag (thank god) but I have many female friends.
Grace of Will and Grace was a female friend. She was not a "fag hag" because she actually had a life and romances that were both separate from and concurrent with her friendship with Will. True fag hags do not. They spend all their social time with gay men and any "romances" have are extremely short and/or entirely compartmentalized away from their gay friends (often because the boyfriend is a homophobe to some degree), or unrequited crushes/odd experimentations with gay or bi men OR women.
A female friend who remains a friend through real relationships with straight men (from whom they won't tolerate homophobia) is not a "fag hag".
R164, they referred to her often as a fag hag in the show. Sometimes Karen, too.
R165 it was a fucking sitcom and not real life.
 Yes, People with kids should realise that the world is not a children's playpen. It's an adult world, where adult things happen. install a firewall on your computer or throw out your TV, but don't expect the world to change, just because you have kids now.
It is maddening. I've had a couple hags who jumped ship, always because they had to adopt their husband's way of thinking. I've never understood that and stopped being friends with them.
It really doesn't have to be like that. My best friend and longtime hag married a blue collar guy, who was not gay-friendly when she met him. She used to school him and his friends on gay rights. Now when I come to their parties, I'm the favorite guest and all the straight guys are friendly to me. Her husband has even called me for advice from time to time. She was the one who spoke up and changed their attitudes. God, I love her!
This is why white American women vote entirely differently than other women.
Marriage tends to domesticate and make people more conservative. Yes, people who get married tend to be more predisposed to conservatism than those who remain single, but marriage itself is a conservative, traditional institution that values stability, monogamy, fidelity, and exclusivity. It exalts conservative traditional values, even if its adherents are not necessarily conservative. IT is a conservative ideal.
The opposite happens as well: 'open-minded/free-thinking', straight guy turns freeper after meeting the blonde, barbie-doll of his dreams who just so happens to be a right-wing bible-belter.
People like that never truly learned to think for themselves. They were empty-shells even when you thought they were not.
Opposing marriage equality helps terrorists.
[quote]The opposite happens as well: 'open-minded/free-thinking', straight guy turns freeper after meeting the blonde, barbie-doll of his dreams who just so happens to be a right-wing bible-belter.
Nancy Davis was not a blonde, Barbie doll, but Reagan was a dyed in the wool Democrat whose idol was FDR until he met/married her.
Sonny Bono was also very liberal who later became a Republican. Cher expressed shock because he'd always been a staunch Democrat.