Do you have any relatives who are in high school or in college, OP?
This seems to baffle DLers perennially.
Noe. Whie, R2?
It was explained to me this way: we do not say "I have to go to the school," or, "I have to go to the work." It's "I have to go to school" or "I have to go to work." "Go to hospital" is the same.
What should they say, "In houspital"?
One thing I don't hear Brits say is "I'm going to the dentist's office".
I'm only here visiting a sick friend. I regret to inform you that I've given that exclusive to [italic]Hello![/italic] magazine.
What do they say, R7, "in dentist"?
They are so fucked up, OP. Why don't they just use the same idioms you do? It would make life so much easier.
You'd only say THE hospital if there was on one in town. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. The American way is the one we should be questioning here.
Or maybe not.
The Brits say I'm taking the car to THE garage.
I'm going to THE dentist.
Because it's proper English, something Americans don't understand or use.
[quote]It was explained to me this way: we do not say "I have to go to the school," or, "I have to go to the work." It's "I have to go to school" or "I have to go to work." "Go to hospital" is the same.
Well, I don't know if it's due to nationality differences...but that sounds weird to me, because those first two things are more routine experiences, and refer more to what is done there by oneself. There are multiple reasons that one could go to a hospital building, and one might not know what's going to happen there, or how much time one will spend there.
I like it.
Hyacinth invites Elizabeth for "a coffee," which is why she never gets a refill.
R5, we can omit the article when saying "going to school/work" because they are both verbs. One does not hospital.
Americans say "he's in college" do they not? So then why is "he's in hospital" so strange?
I still can't believe it that in certain parts of the UK they say "dinner" when they mean "lunch." And "tea" is so twee.
City on fire! City on fire!
I'm in hospital now so I'll ask sister. By the way Op are you at university?
R13 is quite correct. Sorry, Brits.
OP hasn't even his "O" levels, R21, never mind going to Uni.
It should be "in hospitally."
OP, I agree. The same with the word university.
OP is inhospitable.
What about PROM Blaine?
What about the PROM Blaine?
Brits say "in hospital"...
...for the same reason that we say "in college" and not "in the college."
It makes sense.
The English only invented the language. God forbid they are best placed to know how it is to be spoken. It's bad enough Americans invented the expression "I could care less". Explain that.
OP, as English "separated" in the United States, the use of "in hospital" for some reason lost favor (favour) although other similar usages such as "in college" and "in school" stuck. I attribute that to the fact that many Americans don't have basic health care and are thus not acquainted with medical facilities.
We go to church. They go to hospital. It's all cool.
The English go to hospital. The Americans go to the mental hospital.
not really, Reagan shut them all. They are on THE streets!
My dad is English, and yet I will never understand "drink driving".
How come on DOWNTON ABBEY they always say "THE hospital." I remember them saying that a couple times when poor Sybil was dying. There were other instances, too, in previous seasons.
Renowned Professor Higgins asked why the English can't teach their children how to speak. Chickens cackling in a barn, just like this one.
Why do they call a vacation a holiday?
I guess the difference is that 'in hospital' means you don't have to pay and the government foots the bill. It's an annoying piece of linguistic modernism that hides a generous truth.
R26 I think leaving "the" off of PROM is something the kids do nowadays (it's all over US network TV), not the Brits.
The prom thing is rather old. When I was a senior in 1997/1998, we asked "Who are you taking to prom?" and "Are you going to prom?" It's not a new phenomenon. I don't know when it started, though.
R18, A holdover from the distant past. "Dinner" originally was the main formal meal of the day, which was served at noon. The last meal of the day, which was usually a light informal meal served between 4 and 6 pm was called either "supper" (from Old French "souper") or "tea." "Lunch" or "luncheon" simply referred to slices of bread or cheese that was eaten between meals, regardless of the time of day. In the 18th century, the fashionable people of England started following the Parisian tendency to postpone dinner until 7 pm, and would eat a light lunch, which became more than just slices of bread or cheese, in the daytime to stave off the hunger. The rural folks, however, continued to have their dinners at noon.
They also say they "study maths", which just sounds retarded (and my spell checker is correct in actually flagging "maths" as a misspelling).
It's MATH. You study MATH. MATH is the subject. The plural of MATH is MATH.
You study Mathematics. Maths is an abbreviated version.
No, "Math" is the abbreviated form.
Seriously, just stop with the retarded-sounding "Maths", and stop trying to make up justifications and rationalizations for saying something that sounds so fucking stupid.
It's WRONG. So STOP IT.
Do you think the reason why Canadians and Australians retained the British spelling of words and British phrases (i.e. I'm going to university) because they didn't fight for their independence?
After the Americans revolted and founded the USA, they also made it a point of trying to distance themselves from the English. For example, they simplified a lot of the spelling, dropping U's (color instead of colour) and O's (e.g. fetus instead of foetus).
No R45 Maths is the abbreviated colloquial form for Brits. Math sounds stupid to us because it's a singular form. Maths is the study of the plural mathematics (the study of the mathematical sciences). Maths is all of it, not just calculation, geometry, calculus, estimating etc.
R46, I think it's because of the USA spelling reform movements of the late 19th Century which gave schools new rules or spelling. That and the influence of Webster's 1828 Dictionary
It's how they learnt it at University...
I'm Australian and I don't think we should use the term "maths".
Mathematics is the name of a discipline - it's not a plural. Just because it ends with an 's' (like physics but unlike chemistry or geology) doesn't mean we should end the abbreviation with an 's'.
Saying "maths" give the sense of using a plural where a plural doesn't exist.
I'm sat in hospital and feeling pressurised by the stress.
Mathematics is a group of disciplines.
R50 is correct.
R52, so is Biology and Chemistry and Physics.
Sorry, but "Maths" is just wrong and ignorant.
R53, "so are biology, chemistry and physics."
Maths is hard.
Erm R36, the government does not pay for the NHS. The people do.
Are you lot saying we Britts don't speak perfect english? You're hurtin' me feelings mate!
Well if the Americans don't like it you could always get your own bloody language.
Whaevah, Eliza, you minging cow. Are you still hoping to be bonked by your professor? He's a poofter, you know.
Oh dear! I'm frightfully confused!
What about the Brits adding "the" to the proper names of streets? And I don't mean "the high street". I mean things like "the Holloway Road". It's v. annoying.
R55, it's "Maths are hard." Plural.
R61, San Franciscans add "the" to the names of some of their neighborhoods, such as "the Mission", "the Haight", "the Tenderloin".
The most annoying one is converting na to ner.
"Our late princess, Dia-ner"
Like nails on a chalkboard everytime I hear it. There is no R in the word dammit.
But it is their language OP, we're just borrowing it.
So what exactly are "O" levels and is there a difference between a college and a university in the UK?
R63, they only add the linking r to "Diana" (and other words eneding in 'a') if it's followed by a word beginning with a vowel sound so that it ends up sounding like one long word: "Dianerrand Dodi." Back when "Dynasty" was popular, Joan Collins would mention some co-star of hers named [italic]Linderevans[/italic].
[quote]it's "Maths are hard." Plural.
No, it's "Math is hard". Singular. Just like "Chemistry is hard", or "Physics is hard", or "Biology is hard", or "Science is hard".
They also spell "organization" with an s instead of a z. And even worse, they pronounce z like "zed"... as if it were a guy's name, and not a fucking letter of the alphabet.
Do they say their "aed bed ceds"? No, they say their "Aye, bee, cee's"... it's pronounced "ZEE" not "Zed" for chrissakes. So inconsistent and stupid and unnecessary.
[quote]Do they say their "aed bed ceds"? No, they say their "Aye, bee, cee's"... it's pronounced "ZEE" not "Zed" for chrissakes. So inconsistent and stupid and unnecessary.
Well, if you're going to go with that logic, then why not fee, hee, kee, lee, mee, nee, ree, wee, yee?
Zed follows a natural evolution: zeta (Greek) > zeta (Latin) > zède (Old French, Modern French) > zed (English), ezed (Scots)
From my understanding, back in the day, many dialects of English were imported to the Colonies, so that there were several different and confusing ways of saying things. This included the last letter of the alphabet, 'z' - zed, ezed, izzard, zee. Noah Webster decided enough with all variations, and reformed, standardized, and Americanized the language, decreeing that 'z' was to be pronounced 'zee', like bee, cee, and dee (but again, why not fee, hee, kee... ? Oh, whatever.)
Americans don't even know how full of annoying Americanisms their speech is.
I actually like Americanisms, mostly.
But 'right now' always sounds peculiar.
& some people who pronounce roof, 'ruf'.
& route, ROWTE.
& why 'erb'? There's an 'H' there!
'Our salad comes with a creamy 'erb dressing'.
[quote]The most annoying one is converting na to ner.
I thought that was a regional thing. I love how they pronounce the girl's name, Louiser, on Doc Martin. It is very pronounced and it doesn't matter what comes after it. I think that was in Cornwall, so maybe it is more pronounced down there.
They do that 'er' thing in Massachusetts, too. My grandparents, who were brought up in the North Andover area and still reside there, call their daughters "Linder" and "Pauler," and ask you to put the "fox" on the table and if you'd like some "cohn" on the cob.
R74 the 'er' thing you are speaking of are non-rhotic accents. Non-rhoticity is featured in many accents in England, Australia, New Zealand, and the New England region of the United States notable Boston, among others.African American Vernacular English (AAVE) is largely non-rhotic.
The most annoying Americanism is one I grew up around (and never took part in). It's a fly-over thing I'm sure... but it's also with adding "Rs" where they don't belong:
Saying "Warsh" instead of "wash".
And "Eye-Dee-Err" instead of "idea".
Ugh. I grew up around people saying this crap all the time. I am proud I never sunk to that level of repugnance.
Instead, you became both an insufferable bore and a mincing prisspot, R77. Congratulations on your lonely life!
I had a friend in university who read philosophy and also sat for theology. She never got a job, eventually signed on the dole and now lives in a council house.
Taking away the article before a job title seems demeaning to my ear.
Saying "Go talk to cook about dinner," makes it sound patronizing and as if all people who work as cooks are interchangeable.
Also, the constant use of diminutives in British speech just sounds childish.
There is no grammatical rule, it's just how the language evolved in both countries. Some Brits still might still ask 'What are you doing at the weekend?' Canadians don't, though their spelling still mirrors British spelling much more closely than it does American. Americans typically ask 'What are you doing this weekend?'
In British English, a few "institutional" nouns take no definite article when a certain role is implied: for example, at sea [as a sailor], in prison [as a convict]. Among this group, Commonwealth English has in hospital [as a patient] and at university [as a student].
In the case of a patient the article is not used and the statement "She is in hospital." implies that she is being treated as an in-patient. The word "hospital" does not refer here to a specific building. Whereas, when the person concerned is not a patient the definite article is usual and in this case refers to a building and not a care system.
American similarities are the judge saying 'I'll see you in chambers' or a litigant threatening 'I'll see you in court.' No other role or function is reasonably implied by the statement.
Dian-r is an example of the intrusive R, a phenomenon. Intrusive r occurs when speakers want to avoid two vowel sounds occurring next to each other ie law and order... it evolved largely because it's easier to pronounce. You hear it sometimes in Bostonian, Long Island and other regional accents of the upper US Northeast as well. It's long and boring and unrelated to rules of pronunciation as much as how pronunciation evolves in regional dialects. There's a whole long boring explanation of it at link, if you can't sleep.
[quote]I had a friend in university who read philosophy and also sat for theology. She never got a job, eventually signed on the dole and now lives in a council house.
I had a friend [bold]at[/bold] university who read philosophy and also sat for theology. She never got a job, eventually signed on the dole and now lives in a council [bold]flat[/bold].
Close but no cigar
Egad, this discussion has me in coma.
Thanks, R42, for the "dinner" explanation. They still say it on Coronation Street.
R76 It's one thing when they call their road "THE 405" out there in LaLaLand, but if I hear them say "THE 95" one more time on CRIMINAL MINDS, I am going to reach through my TV and pull Reid's hair until he promises never to say it again.
When did Los Angelenos start saying "the" in front of route numbers instead of calling their freeways by name? In the late '70s, we said "the San Diego" or "the Hollywood" or "the Santa Monica" when we spoke of the freeway we drove on. I first recall hearing "the 10" on the episode of DOOGIE HOWSER MD that dealt with the Rodney King riots, so the change had to have happened sometime in the '80s.
In California, they say "The 10" ... in Texas, they say "I-10" ("Eye-Ten").
R87 In most of the country, they would say "Eye-Ten."
"The Ten" doesn't even make sense.
The flip side of this, of course, is Americans adding a "the" where it is not needed, especially the older generation.
"I am going to The Targets." No, it's just Target, singular. No "the" needed.
R89 I, an "older generation American," went to Target today. Not "the Targets." Not "the Target." Just "Target." No "the" needed.
r54, please learn the Oh,Dear.
That's fantastic, R90.
I did NOT say that every single older person speaks that way, so try not to get your panties in a wad.
However, I hear many people, primarily older people, pluralizing proper names.
Same reason they say "at university."
And "at holiday."
Nobody says "at holiday"
What's with Brits pronouncing Lisa as Leeza? It's an s, not a z. Lisa's hubby even pronounces it that way on RHOBH. And why do Brits pronounce Liza as Leeza, too? Like Liza Minnelli. What's up with that. It's simply incorrect.
I meant "on holiday."
Oh, piss off, you sad twats!
Actually, R92, what you were shrieking about in R89 was the insertion of "the" where it does not belong (with which I agree, BTW, older than you though I appear to be).
You didn't say anything about the (presumably improper) pluralization of proper names until R92.
I don't hear *pluralization* of proper nouns as often as I hear possessives that shouldn't be possessives. For example, there was a restaurant down the street from me called the Trio Restaurant at one point in my life which everyone but me called "Trio's." I wonder if that phenomenon is what you're talking about.
The two main grocery chains in that city were Safeway and Giant, and some people would say they were going to Safeway's or to Giant's (I don't recall a "the" being inserted, though).
Oh, and FWIW, it was always *younger* people than myself who apostrophized names in this manner. I've always thought of this impropriety as a Gen-Xism.
R18/R42, one still hears [italic]dinner[/italic] for "lunch" and [italic]supper[/italic] for "dinner" in parts of the South as well as in the UK.
R89, my partner's mom (from northwest Alabama) says "The Walmarks." And "Pubelix" for "Publix."
Sorry, blokes, I missed all this I was busy this evening. I've been at Penis.
I like when people insert "that", like "I watched that Beyonce during that halftime show they had on the TV." Inserting "them" is also interesting, like "Them Ravens at that Super Bowl was good."
R82, Council house is also correct and more likely depending upon where you live.
OP "Hospital" is not an adjective when you say "in hospital."
That's just what I was about to say. Council house is perfectly fine, r82.
R95 is another one who's got it wrong.
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