I will be on the job market again in a year or so (graduating). I know things got bad around 2008; has it already peaked, or is it just as bad?
[quote] Has the job market gotten better?
Depends on your major and any work experience. Have you done any sort of internships in your field of study?
Have been unemployed for four years (mostly by choice) but have been following the US job market for my field. Have also watched friends and colleagues look for work. The job market is definitely picking up now. I live in the SF Bay Area and believe that we have been slower to recover than many other parts of the country.
I have nieces and nephews who graduated college during the recession. I also know many of their friends from college. A huge majority went on to graduate school or professional programs like nursing to ride out the bad economy.
You might have to be willing to relocate. Headhunters in Texas and Boston are constantly contacting me, for example. This eldergay is not that desperate.
Best thing you can do is get to know people in your field and/or major. Set up a Linkedin profile and network like hell. Do send out a million resumes, but networking and personal connections are currently the most successful ways to find work.
Good luck, my dear gayling!
It's just as bad still.
Not as bad as 2008, 2009, 2010.
The big businesses are still being driven by the same people that tanked the economy. Of course it's not any better.
I would say much worse. I feel for those coming out of college right now.
What r5 said.
Anyone in the IT/Call center profession?
Are jobs still being sent to India?
If you're over 40, forget it. No one wants to hire an eldergay.
They need people but they won't hire. If you want food in fast food...you might get a job.
No. I'm enjoying mine, but more than 20 people on Facebook are flogging their resumes online, desperate for work.
Isn't that crap what Linked In is for?
Truly depends on age and experience. No one wants this 40+ guy and my resume sinks me. Best bet is to LIE!
I'm in school and I'm just working some part time retail job for almost minimum wage. It's a shitty job working for a rabid republican. Every single day I work I go home and look for a new job6. I hardly see any openings for minimum or low wage people. My boss hasn't hired anyone to replace the three people that quit in the last 5 months. I notice a lot of places in town haven't replaced the people who have quit in the last couple months
And R9, I have even considered fast food jobs. Most of them want 1 or 2 yrs experience for a cashier
So many bitter queens and Debbie Downers posting from Mom's basement here, OP. Don't listen to them; they weren't ever even college material.
Better. I'd hire three people if I found the right ones.
I have an MS in Engineering. I'm working in my uncle's cranberry bogs outside of Boston. I want to fucking die in a grease fire.
Are you a recent MS r16, or have you hit The Great Divide of 40 years old?
Hi OP, I worked for a career firm until 2008 and yes, it was really bad then, my job was one of millions cut.
It has gotten better and the job market is much more stable now.
I know you didn't ask but I hope you don't mind me making a few suggestions to you.
You didn't mention your field, but I would recommend you do some or all of these things (I returned to college myself and am doing the same):
(1) Get out there and meet people. Networking is really important. If there are conferences in your field near you, see if you can go, either as a student or as a guest of a professor or a person in the industry. If you don't know a person in the industry, write and ask them if you can attend that event they're holding, etc.
What I'm saying there: Find ways to meet people which are ways for them to get to know you without you specifically asking for a job. They will remember your initiative, drive and smarts when a job comes open.
(2) Start a LinkedIn account and connect with everyone you can think of or remember. I've landed three big corporate jobs in the last dozen years since my first college go round, and each time, I was probably competing with half a dozen people. What made the difference each time was that I remembered that I knew someone at the company, or had a connection at the company. Connect with everyone. If the person at your school cafeteria has a LinkedIn connect with them! (Meaning: don't just think of status - think of people who are hubs of social activity.)
(3) Start looking NOW. Don't use Monster and CareerBuilder as your primary search tools (though save a resume on both as some companies use them for a submission platform). Search on LinkedIn and on aggregators like SimplyHired and Indeed. Use any industry boards you are aware of.
Even if you're not ready to work now, if a really great match comes up, send them a letter of introduction. It may take companies six months to a year to fill a job.
If there are specific dream companies you want to work for, send them a letter even if a job isn't posted. Tell them you're a student and you'd love a tour. Or even if there isn't an official internship available, see if they'd be willing to let you volunteer/work for free there for a few weeks. You're a student and this is the last time you'll have a chance to do this sort of thing in a context where it will be 'socially acceptable.'
Your school has resources - check them out and use them. I'm building my resume on my school's site. They have me paired with a mentor in a field and he's got me connecting with people in my field.
If you're graduating in May 2014 (as I am) now, or May 2013 at the latest, is the time to meet with those folks and draw up a plan of what to do now, what to do in six months, what to do as graduation nears.
This sounds like a lot of work but the more prep you do now, the smoother this process will go.
It's a tight job market, but not an impossible one. Good luck OP!
One big problem with the current market is "Last Fired, First Hired" and "Unemployed Need Not Apply."
Someone on here (or maybe another thread) said they'd been out of work for five years? What are they to do?
Sort of. I have been on the hunt for a year. I am mid-career, so not going to just take any job (fortunately I am currently employed). I find a lot of openings for entry level -- sometimes even unpaid internships -- or very sr. level. Midcareer tougher. I have seen some new things pop up in the past month though. The holidays, in my industry, were totally deadsville. Sigh.
That is a new wrinkle R19. Some companies are specifically saying "no one who isn't already employed."
For the person out of work for five years, I'd recommend immediately finding a volunteering job. It sounds counterintuitive and you hardly want to work for free when bills need paid...
...but volunteer work can be on a resume, and it puts a person back into a group of people and a network of people that will likely give them connections to a possible new job.
Not really. As a freelance copywriter I get brought in on projects at different ad agencies a lot. But that's because these places won't hire full-time staff, even though they technically need to.
When I show up, I can see the full-timers are fucking exhausted from working so much -essentially doing the job of two people. 80 hour weeks are par for the course.
I don't see that changing anytime soon.
And I can only imagine how bad it would be if I were just out of college trying to break into the biz.
It's still a shit show.
There are some creative industries that are really suffering.
Journalism is in freefall. No one wants to pay for writers to do anything else but freelance - or blog for free. I understand R22's frustrations.
My friend is in advertising and he said his agency does the same he did 15 years ago with 25% of the staff they had then.
r2 here, unemployed by choice for four years. I'm a biotechnology scientist and am just starting to seriously look for work. Fortunately, the job market for my field is growing again.
A lot of greedy corporations are working their staff to death. Then the worker becomes ill, they have to retire early (disability) and as usual, the tax payer has to pick up the bill, for the greedy rich.
There's just so much that has changed about even the way we look for jobs, and the way companies hire people, and a lot of it has changed in the last five to ten years - before the recession and economic crash.
The ease of applying for a job online might make it easier for us, but it actually results in a total clusterfuck at companies, who often turn a deaf ear to resumes - they get thousands a day and many of them are from total fuckwits who will apply for any job, whether they are qualified or not. (Not saying anyone here did that, but it happens, and it totally affects the legitimate candidates.)
The electronic submissions have also made it much harder to get a resume SEEN by human eyes. Almost every company uses a system that scans resumes for keywords, and the ones that get through? Are the ones who replicate the most keywords from the ad they posted. But most of us have a standard resume we send, and we don't change or edit ours and create specific ones for each job.
That's one reason why the whole networking/knowing someone is really important. Because it DOES help if you have an old coworker, or someone like that, inside a company saying "Hey, take a look at X's resume."
The only reason it has gotten "better" is because jobs are being repackaged with lower salaries and less hours. Companies are angling themselves for Obamacare. Most full time entry level positions that were benefits eligible once upon a time are now split into two part-time positions. I think that will be the future of the American work force. Most people will have two or more part-time jobs, even professionals.
I am trying to start a career with Disney after deciding to leave a career in government (bad pay - no cost of living raise in six years, lots of drama). The Disney Institute has a one-day seminar for $850 that I hear is an opportunity to network, get noticed. What is the opinion of the insiders, worth it or not?
That sucks r29 -- it is like how the end of American Literature can be marked from the day when writers had to start paying agents to read submissions.
This may be somewhat beside the point, but ...
I was laid off from my job of over 20 years several years ago, after the company downsized several times. All of the middle management was overworked and every single one of us was on some kind of anti-anxiety drugs. Every one. The company started out, after a previous restructuring, with 200 managers spread over North America. When I left there were 52 and 10 more were cut. There was more work to be done than before, not less. So when I was laid off I was almost grateful and was emotionally and physically exhausted.
I needed treatment for anxiety and some physical problems after all that, but after a while I went back to school to change fields. I'm still in school now but I just found out I have developed Glaucoma. That doesn't have anything to do with my former job, but I still feel like that fucking place used me up and threw me aside.
I'm not sure I will be able to get my degree before my vision is compromised and I'm beginning to wonder why I am even trying. Maybe I will just apply for disability, dig a hole and lie down in it and wait.
Bitter, party of one.
What about certifications for a "fall back" career? Nuclear medicine techs get paid a decent wage.
R29 Disney is a terrible company to work for. It is only worth your while if you are a really big Disney fan.
I met a nice young lady who spent her twenties in computer science, and when the dot-coms melted down, went for a Masters in Library Science. Five years later, she was booted from her new career and now is trying to get a medical transcriber certificate.
Even if that works, she'll be in her 70s before her student loans are paid off.
I live in Hollywood, around these parts, former Disney employees refer to it as Mousewitz.
They basically go through mass hiring for every new project, the mass layoffs without ever trying to keep anyone long term. Meanwhile, you have to sign a contract to not do that to them by not leaving for 2 years if they hire you.
The Tea Party is Dead R28. Enough with the Obama bashing already. No successful company in their right mind is planning their hiring strategy around healthcare. If there operating budget is that minimal and tenuous, they will fail because they dont know how to run a business.
Even a really generous benefits package is only about 30% of an employees salary. By generous I mean 401k Matching, 10 paid holidays, 3 weeks vacation, PPO private healthcare plan etc.
Healthcare is only like 10% of that.
I wish people - nerds, dweebs, fraus and parents specifically - would boycott Disney movie product opening weekend, R35. They now own everything (Pixar, Star Wars, Marvel...), but still boycott. Use the "anti-American" angle on Facebook?
Sorry, R18 is way behind the curve. Dont waste your time on LinkedIn.
People are generally tired of being "friended by strangers" because they know you are just going to hit them up for a job.
I get hit up all the time with BS flattery about my work and "if I ever need any help..." Can smell it a mile away. It is quite annoying because the compliment is not sincere, it's manipulative. Which seems to be R18 stagey. Everyone is on to it, and annoyed by it.
That said, if you actually know someone like a coworker from another job, or classmate then by all means give them a call. Worst case at least you get to catch up with them.
OP, I created a thread about being unemployed for 6 months about 10 months ago.
I am still unemployed and despite endless email submissions for every type of job - I remain unemployed. However because I have my resume on so many sites, I get weekly calls from headhunters who submit my resume for positions they say I am a great fit for but then I never hear from them again, which means the client does not want a person already unemployed.
You should know the salaries they are offering seem to drop a few thousand each month as well. Companies are still laying people off; they are just doing it more selectively and quietly.
My unemployment benefits end in a few weeks.
[quote] Dont waste your time on LinkedIn.
The situation you describe (friended by strangers) does suck. But that isn't at all the POINT of LinkedIn. It ain't Facebook.
Sorry, I'm not "stagey" or "fakey." Please don't speak about my behavior when you haven't a clue what it is.
I use LinkedIn to maintain connections with people, send them links to stuff I think they might enjoy, and use it to stay in contact with people I've met. It's meant to be a channel for online communications. In other words, I've put effort into it and used it to keep in touch.
I'd be pissed too if random people just used me out of the blue, but I click delete and say BOOM BITCH BYE to those fools.
Aside from the communication channel, LinkedIn has a solid job board, and it CAN be a good place to see events in your field. That being said, it has certainly gotten more spammy than when it first launched, so you have to be careful. The best thing is to only join real industry groups....if you're in banking join the ABA group, that sort of thing.
The takeaway point from ALL of this is that people should be doing this ALL the time. Not just when you need a job, or when you need a favor. Maintaining professional relationships are as important as personal ones. If you wait until you do not have a job to start networking, you've fucked yourself.
[R35] and [R33] thanks for the insights. I want to work at Disney World, but not in an hourly service position. I want the next period of my career to be doing something I enjoy. I have BS in Political Science and a career in government under my belt, both fields are full of miserable people.
[quote]The takeaway point from ALL of this is that people should be doing this ALL the time. Not just when you need a job, or when you need a favor. Maintaining professional relationships are as important as personal ones. If you wait until you do not have a job to start networking, you've fucked yourself.
This is how a prosperous, productive country turned into Hell.
Hell, with H1-Bs, who don't seem to need LinkedIn to get formerly well-paid jobs.
R41 If you like that type of company (i.e., theme parks) and have an easy time being cheerful all of the time then it may work out for you.
Their benefits are terrible. The corporate mentality is very cult-like.
Also if we are talking Disney, no facial hair for men, piercings including ear rings, and tattoos. Even if you just work behind the scenes, they get away with that BS by calling you a "cast member" instead of an employee.
So just be aware of that. It might have loosened up slightly over the last few years, but they want that all American look to almost a extreme fetish.
Watch out for Head Hunters, they are extreme time wasters. They troll the resumes on Monster and Dice extensively telling you they got the perfect job from some mystery client.
In reality, there is no actual job, only collecting resumes to throw at the same job openings you are looking at. If they hire you, then they get to collect a fee.
No license or training required, anyone can be a headhunter even the guy who sold you a sandwich at Subway.
It never really recovered from the dot-com meltdown. Work totally changed after that.
What R40 said.
American Hegemony --
PARIS -- An incredulous -- and insulting -- letter from an American capitalist to a Socialist government minister in France has revealed a monumental clash of cultures.
Tire magnate Maurice "Morry" Taylor Jr., head of Titan International, did not hold back when he decided to tell Arnaud Montebourg, France's minister for industrial renewal, where he could stick his suggestion that the U.S. businessman take over an ailing French factory.
A simple no, or even non, might have sufficed. But Taylor, who made an unsuccessful bid for the Republican presidential nomination in 1996, launched into a tirade.
"Do you think we're stupid?" he wrote in a blunt missive that was published in the French media Wednesday.
Known as "The Grizz" and described by Forbes magazine as "rough-hewn," Taylor said he had visited a Goodyear tire factory near Amiens, in northern France, "several times" and was less than impressed.
"The French workers are paid high wages but only work three hours. They have one hour for their lunch, they talk for three hours and they work for three hours. I told this to their union leaders directly; they replied, that is the way it is in France," Taylor wrote to Montebourg.
He rebuffed the French government's approach for him to take over the plant, which is faced with closure and the loss of 1,173 jobs. Goodyear has blamed union intransigence for the failure of rescue attempts.
"Sir, your letter suggests you would like to open discussions with Titan. How stupid do you think we are? Titan has money and the know-how to produce tires. What does the crazy union have? It has the French government. The French farmer wants cheap tires. He doesn't care if those tires come from China or India or if those tires are subsidized.
"Titan is going to buy Chinese or Indian tires, pay less than one euro an hour to workers and export all the tires France needs."
Montebourg has declined to respond to Taylor, saying he does not want to "damage" France's image, presumably by flinging back some choice words.
Taylor is known for his no-nonsense -- some would say brash -- approach to business. In one of a series of "Buy American" advertisements in 2008, he said that putting French-made Michelin tires on a U.S.-made tractor would be like "putting a beret on a cowboy."
His letter -- nobody has yet revealed if it was composed in English or in French -- ended with a final undiplomatic flourish.
"You can keep your so-called workers," he wrote. "Titan is not interested in the factory in north Amiens."
It's bad and will likely get worse. The obama policies are hurting job growth. The US should be farther along in the recovery and we are likely to go backwards.
Riiiight, r49, everything wrong in the world is obamas fault. Executives can't possibly think for themselves.
Everything you have failed at in your personal life is his fault too. Oh, and anything that might go wrong in the future is also Obama's.
I had a bad day today, and it's Obama's fault. But I'm not a racist or just a general idiot, because I blame his policies for my failures, not him personally.
Civilization is an illusion. Of course it's collapsing.
R50 is unhinged.
If you are unable to find a job and willing to try a blue collar job for awhile there are jobs in the trucking industry, I am a former teacher and am making over 80,000 a year driving over the road it's not for everybody but if you are looking at losing your unemployment or perhaps worse you might want to consider it, they also are less likely to discriminate based on age as long as you can physically do the job
In my city, all the blue collar jobs have been swamped by Mexicans who now only hire each other.
Any immigrant-rich jobs have gone that way -- become the private reserve of various colonist groups.
[quote] when bills need paid...
God, I hate this. Are you from Pittsburgh, R21?
It has also been long established, r21, that volunteer work does little to impress a hiring manager, other than to prove you weren't enjoying your time off.
Back in 2005, when it became clear that the world of work and hiring had changed into the weirdness we have now, Barbara Ehrenreich wrote a book where she went undercover as an unemployed person and made the rounds of job fair, employment seminars, etc. That was the era when there were suddenly so many unemployed people who thought volunteer work would fill the horrible "gap" in their resume, places that usually benefit from volunteers started to make people go through interviews that were often more intrusive than those for jobs, and some asked applicants to pay to volunteer at their charities.
The book is called "Bait and Switch."
"His letter -- nobody has yet revealed if it was composed in English or in French -- ended with a final undiplomatic flourish."
Ha - as if that clown could write anything in French
"It never really recovered from the dot-com meltdown. Work totally changed after that."
The absolute truth!
I'll modify 46's assertion slightly -- I think it was a one-two punch: (1) dot-com meltdown, and (2) 9-11.
I was in the advertising business then and the traditional ad agency business model collapsed, seemingly overnight.
But it wasn't just the advertising business, not by a longshot. We just reflected what was going on with our clients.
"Oh my God. I'm back. I'm home. All the time, it was... We finally really did it ... You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
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