A special rush project came through this week at work that is requiring my team to have to work late and on Saturdays. That's fine, I enjoy my job BUT after the meeting telling us about this project a female co-worker said to me, "I am going to talk to the manager, I have a small baby and can't work extended hours or Saturdays. I have a family and the rest of you don't."
The rest of us are two other gay guys who are partnered, a partnered lesbian and some empty nesters. That's not family?
She "works from home" most days, just took 30 days off to go to India...ugh, I'm just frustrated that someone can get away with this sort of thing and expect the rest of the team to carry her work load.
Fire the bitch !
Another woman/child-hating thread.
I'd have her fired. I used to have a girl on my team (architectural firm) that pulled that kind of stuff. She was very easily replaced. You know, it was for her benefit. She got to spend TONS of time with her family after that.
You're just jealous of her OP and will use any work related excuse to discredit her simply out of spite and envy. I've seen people like you before and know how you operate. Self-righteous and manipulative.
I am a woman and I hate working mothers. If they get too much of their way they put tremendous pressure on the rest of the team/their colleagues.
Either you are in the work force and take all the good and bad that comes with it or stay the fuck at home.
Where did she get the 30 days "recently" to go to India, and was she preggers, or did she bring the infant with her there?
She was defining "family" as "one with children (to look after)."
Unless she has some sort of blackmail-like clout, or the manager is a complete wimp, she shouldn't be allowed to get away with the kid as an excuse.
R2 is so busy with her knee jerk reaction she missed the part about the partnered lesbian.
1. Women have babies.
2. Women work outside the home.
3. Women who work outside the home have babies.
Some accommodation needs to be made. It stinks to have a whole lot of work dumped on you and clearly some balance needs to be struck. But allowances need to be made for parents of young children.
Another woman here...my employer made absolutely no provision for others' maternity leaves...no replacement was hired, we--and mostly me--had to do the person on leave's job. Adding insult to injury, the new mom was the laziest thing going to begin with....and, as a pregnant person basically expected us to treat her like the Princess Royal...ugh!
This again? Jesus, the whining and bitching. So feminine and unbecoming. So weak.
That's fine R8, but I think what sticks out is the entitlement of some of these mothers. Like it's your choice to have a baby and now you and the boss expect others to bend over backwards to cover your ass.
For the record I'm a lesbian with no children whose department consists of me, a childless male coworker and a woman with a grown child.
No, fucktard R7. Are you new here?
Don't be angry for people resenting extra hours. Do be angry for her obvious bigotry against people without children. File a formal complaint with h.r. They won't do anything but it would be nice to have it in her file. Having been away for 30 days, she's obviously "feeling her oats" as they say, and has a diminished appreciation for the whole job thing.
If she has a husband at home then I am sure he is more than able to watch the children. I hate this crap. If you choose to have a child and a job then somedays you can't get your way and expect other people to pick up the load. I would write her up.
Children need their mother. I guess some of you wouldn't understand that, or don't WANT to understand it.
Invent your own fictional children and use them to be just as lazy and irresponsible as this whiny bitch.
This is why they don't want "traditional marriage" ruined by gays
People CHOOSE to have children, the rest of us should not be forced to accomodate their needs. Where I work, women (and fathers too) get 12 weeks of leave when a child is expected. The rest of us have to carry the work load
What makes people think their boring loser office jobs are of any interest to the rest of the world?
R8, you have a stunning grasp of the obvious.
What you say in front of your coworker to your boss:
"All her bonus belongs to us."
Repeat each time she pulls this shit.
Oh for fuck's sake. Only Americans see having children as a luxury or a choice.
Eat the baby. If it is under 1year old they are excellent when braised with a dry white wine and root vegetables.
[quote]But allowances need to be made for parents of young children.
Yes. That is why we used to pay men more than women. Because most of the men were supporting wives who stayed at home with small children.
Maybe you peasants should save your anger for the bosses who make you cover the woman's work without pay rather than the woman herself.
Only in America is having children viewed as some luxurious release from actual work.
You people are fucking maniacs.
Yes....I totally agree about allowances being made for people with young children. Since it's usually the single people or people without children that get dumped upon, then the people with young children should have to forfeit a percentage of their salary to those picking up the slack.
For example, if a new mother is working 20% less than the other people on her team, then her pay should be docked 20% and distributed appropriately amongst those covering for her. When she's able to for "full time" again like everyone else on staff, then the salary would be adjusted back up to its original level. Now that's fair.
Why should co-workers have to be penalized for other people's decision to spawn?
I have no problem with maternity leave in general, but I have seen it abused. One of my co workers (male) decided to stretch out the alloted time over six months, so he'd take every Friday off or every Monday, shit like that.
In this case, it sucks to have to work on a weekend.
I'd approach the boss privately, and let him know I feel. I'd assure him that yes, the work will get done and I'd make the best of it, but it seems inconsiderate of the other employee to not make an effort to pitch in.
Then I would rally with my fellow gays to have a couple of them also approach the boss privately, so it snowballs and becomes an epic shitstorm for the new mom.
Then organize a pot luck for the office for lunch on Saturday, including turkey meatballs and some cak. The lesbos will bring bread pudding, of course. And laugh wickedly about how you are going to ruin that breeder's life.
Apologies: When she's able to be (not to for).
[quote] Only in America is having children viewed as some luxurious release from actual work.
Exactly. Fraus see their kids as a great excuse to get out of work. For every reason under the sun.
People without kids should be able to either get a bonus for picking up the slack, or should get a "just 'cos" lifestyle break.
If working weekends & extended weekday hours is a job requirement, then she's not qualified. Just as she's not qualified for a job as a sperm donor. And I'm not qualified for a job that requires a medical degree.
She's taking advantage of an employer that isn't willing to enforce job requirements equally among all employees. If I were the boss, I'd warn her that failure to fulfill the job requirements is cause for termination -- everyone is expendable & her attitude (however common it may be) is hardly conducive to teamwork.
On the other hand, FLEX TIME -- for everyone --was instituted at many companies because of working women who had children.
Get a picture of two little kids and then put them on your desk, make up names and say, "Oh, I just adopted these two babies."
I love that Datalounge is the gathering place for the childless.
Thank god you bitches are manning (womaning?) the barricades to protect society from those uppity fraus who DARE to breed!!! How dare they fall prey to the most basic biological instinct there is.
Smack her, Wilona!!!
R33 totally gets nothing about this post.
No problem with breders, sweety. Someone has to pop out the twinks I will be jacking off to in 18 years.
Oh I get everything about this thread, dear. It's more tiresome woman-bashing from cube-dwelling corporate drones.
You speaking in tongues, R36?
[quote]Only Americans see having children as a luxury or a choice.
What do you call choosing doing something that is unnecessary and insanely expensive?
Slightly off-topice but in the same vein...a married (woman) friend of mine asked me to drive her, her husband and child 2 hours away, at Christmas time, through deer country, because she booked plane tickets out of another city where it was cheaper to leave from.
She said "you're the only one that's single" when I displayed my shock at her asking me.
Yeah, that is totally it, R39. I have encountered such behavior, too.
R39 Thats when I would have showed up at their house, drunk as shit with an open bottle of bourbon in the car. Hey, youre single! Why should you care if you drive the car up a telephone pole?
Your co-worker may have phrased it kind of bitchy, but she certainly has her priorities straight.
So many companies expect employees to work 60-70 hours as an average week. As if they had no other meaning in life than to be at the beck and call of their corporation.
At least your co-worker knows that working Saturdays won't make her feel important.
R40/41 I told her "Just because I'm single doesn't mean I don't have a life".
Did she have a stunned, blank expression on her face when you said that, R43?
I'm a director of a large company where the senior executive team just made some huge changes. No flextime is allowed. Everyone must be in the office from 8 AM to 6 PM. No telecommuting. Employees can only take more than two weeks of vacation in a row every three years (to stop month long trips to India). No more H1Bs (or whatever requires sponsorship). The parents with children are screaming, but they realize they are stuck. We've recently hired enough 50+ years olds in new positions that I think they see the trend.
Nice, asshole R45
So what are parents supposed to do, live off of welfare?
[quote]So what are parents supposed to do, live off of welfare?
No. But they could start by not automatically expecting everyone needs to accommodate them simply because of their lifestyle choice.
I'm not 'against' maternity leave or anything like that. I don't call for reforms and company policy changes. I deal. Like an adult.
That said, welcome to the world of being a non-breeder. There is so much entitlement in regard to children. Whether it is like what OP describes - or in a market or restaurant where kids run and scream - and God forbid you express any dissatisfaction with their lack of manners. "But they are sweet, adorable children". Bullshit. And in Vegas: what the fuck are children doing in Vegas casinos? Again the parents act so fucking entitled.
Lastly, all the taxes that go for schools and all that. We don't have kids. Why do we have to pay for those services?
[quote] Lastly, all the taxes that go for schools and all that. We don't have kids. Why do we have to pay for those services?
Because someone paid taxes for you to go to school.
Man I am so sick of these cunts. This shit has gone on long enough.
R39, did you take your friends and spawn to the airport; I hope not? or are you even speaking to them? I find their behavior/statement more rude than the entitled breeder OP describes.
I think that corporations worry about breeders suing them. . ALthough I think the only "legal" thing is laws re maternity leave, "pregnancy must be treated the same as any disability", etc. And in these more modern times: "paternity leave", too.
But so what if OP's female workmate has children? Hello: babysitters????
I'm sick of all the fucking entitlement of breeders, too. Yes, we were all children once upon a time and I agree with the poster who says taxes have to be paid to schools; someone paid for US to go once.
In a job setting once sometimes (often??) has to suck it up depending on the "status" of the people with kids (boss? boss likes? long-term employees?) but in public: Vegas (as mentioned), restaurants, airports, airplanes: I think people that are being bothered by someone's obnoxious poorly-raised spawn ought to SPEAK UP. And loudly.
Paying for school taxes, mat leave, family leave, etc. should be enough. Parental units shouldn't take advantage beyond that. Bitch should try her luck in India if she doesn't like it.
[quote]Oh for fuck's sake. Only Americans see having children as a luxury or a choice.
I see them as a burden as well!
Is new mother using her income to pay for a McMansion, Mercedes and manicures? If so, fuck her.
R52, hell no I did not take them to the airport...she abandoned that plan when she couldn't find a sucker to drive 4 hrs R/T in December through deer country in the snow and ice.
She booked her tickets at our local airport, I don't know who dropped them off there, wasn't me.
R44, she did!
I thought it was extremely rude of her to assume I have no life, therefore I couldn't wait to go on some dumb grueling trip...not to mention the price of gas...furthermore, did she think I was going to make the trip again to pick them up on her inbound segment?
I'd rather have a sharp stick in the eye.
R26 funny you should say that, my coworker was recently hired at such a place where they have a child-leave policy (not maternity leave) that outlines just that.
LOVE that, R45. Hope it's a trend that continues. So sick of breeder women playing the victim as if the world doesn't cater to them enough. My yuppie woman acquaintance keeps pumping them out, then handing them off to the nanny to raise. She's up to three. And still complaining about how hard she has it as a working mom. vomit.
R45, you really do sound like an asshole. I understand that sometimes necessary changes have to be made to corporate policies (although you didn't specify how "necessary" these changes were), but the tone of your post makes it sound like you're reveling in working your employees to the bone like slave dogs, patting yourself on the back for doing everything in your power to ensure that they barely have a semblance of a life outside of work, and - on top of everything else - rubbing your hands together in glee at the fact that most of them probably don't have the option to quit in this economy.
Two weeks of vacation every THREE years - and you're fucking gloating about it? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Before I'm accused of being a breeder apologist - I do not think that parents should get automatic, special exceptions at work for their own choice to have children. But the whole "Work, work, WORK till you fucking die, and do nothing else" mentality that exists in America - as evidenced by people like R45 - is still appalling. Most European countries have been WAY ahead of us on quality of life issues such as this for a LONG time.
Silly post. Tending to a young child is different than tending to your adult romantic/life partner.
By the way gays also have children nowadays, so the female co-worker could have easily been a lesbian in a different scenario.
Unless R45 runs the only job in town, no one has to work at his place. Those who want to work there must follow the rules -- if they don't like the rules, they're free to leave. If R45's company can't get enough good employees because of the rules, the company will have to change the rules or close. What's wrong with that?
Uh, R60? Did you miss the part of my post about the economy being in such a state that a lot of people aren't able to leave jobs where they're treated like shit (which R45 is CLEARLY aware of from its post, and quite glad about)?
[R45] = Republican
Why do you have to pay taxes for their school? If you think those little brats are monsters now, just think of how they would be if they had no schooling. You wouldn't be safe anywhere.
I'm a bunch of layers down from the executive team that made this decision. I didn't even know until it was implemented. I'm a liberal gay democrat if that makes any difference at all.
The majority of our employees earn $100k and above. They are salary and there is an expectation that they are working at least 9 hours a day. We never work on the weekends. We start off with 3 weeks of vacation a year. Two weeks can be used in a row and the third has to be used at a different time. Once every 3 years an employee can put together 3 or 4 weeks for an extended vacation.
Telecommuting has been an issue because employees abuse it and disappear for hours to do non-work related chores. Most of our clients have limited telecommuting. We simply took a stricter view unless we have a blizzard.
There is also the expectation that we might have to travel to client sites on short notice for several days. No one is exempt. It's reality and is explained many times through the interviewing process. No one is forcing them to accept a job offer or stay. Our turnover is pretty low so we're OK.
In terms of the economy, we're actively hiring older people with years of experience. Most companies won't look at 50+ year old candidates with multiple graduate degrees. We seek them out because of their experience and because they don't have the sense of entitlement that recent college grads have.
[quote] I have a family and the rest of you don't.
Most of us are basically kind and considerate. But comments and attitudes like that undermine one's willingness to help out others and so they spoil it for everyone else.
Most work places have at least one person who ALWAYS puts themselves first and wants special treatment and favors and awards and who doesn't contribute to gift collections (but writes in the card) and who doesn't bring morning or afternoon tea (but always attends and eats up).
Sometimes it's best to ignore the attitude and shoulder the extra workload. Sometimes one needs to match the excuses - "I can work back on Thursday and Friday, but the weekend is out." Why? "I've got some personal commitments." What commitments? "Personal commitments."
That little baby you hate is going to grow up and pay YOUR social security benefits.
You people are so selfish. It takes a VILLAGE you know.
calm down R66
[quote] It takes a VILLAGE you know.
It might take a village, but everyone in that village needs to contribute.
Uggh - hetero privilege raises its ugly head again!
I recall a decade ago. I was the I.T. Director for a state office.
I had a staff comprised of two women and one guy.
Both women had kids. But the eldest of the two was always calling in sick or out because her kid was sick.
Then there was the time the shrew was out sick for two days. She calls me on the 2nd day saying she'll probably be out the next day. I told her just to protect herself in case, policy was that she needed a doctors note.
I get in early the next morning and she's at her desk. She tells me I threatened her. Yeah right bitch.
We (The other female employee and the other guy) basically walled her off. We realized that between the three of us we had the skills to run the whole shop.
[quote] "I am going to talk to the manager, I have a small baby and can't work extended hours or Saturdays. I have a family and the rest of you don't."
I'm female and it is bullshit. I work with an asshole who has twins and she is ALWAYS late and leaves at LEAST once a week early or doesn't come in at all. She relieves me at work. So I can't leave until she decides to stroll in. I don't get paid for the extra 15 minutes a day I have to wait for her to stroll in. But she gets paid as if she was on time every day. That's over an hour a week. 50 weeks a year and it's 50 hours I'm not getting paid for but she is. She's getting money that I earned
Every time I say something to some one about her being late, they look at me I'm a bitch. They all say, "she has two kids". What does that have to do with anything? My cousin has 4 kids (2 are twins) and she isn't late. She behaves like and adult who has respect for other people and makes sure she leaves early enough so she isn't late. In the past year and a half I was 5 minutes late because I got in a car accident and my car was totaled.
And when my coworker finally drags her lazy late ass into work she immediately has to get on the phone and talk to the baby sitter for 10 minutes, even though she just left home which is only 10 minutes away. What occurred in the 10 minute ride over from her house that she has to immediately call the sitter - every day? Then she sits down and tells everyone what's going on with the kids for 15 minutes. She finally goes to work about an hour after her shift starts and the work load is completely backed up. Then most of the other people who are supposed to leave soon have to all pitch in and help her finish the work she ignored for an hour
[quote] Children need their mother. I guess some of you wouldn't understand that, or don't WANT to understand it.
Why do mothers abandon their kids so they can go to work? If they need their mother so much she should stay the hell home with her kids
[quote] If she has a husband at home then I am sure he is more than able to watch the children.
Oh come on. You don't expect a father to watch his own children do you? Most fathers think they are only supposed to help out once in a great while. And then when they finally do get bullied into watching their own children they have to tell everyone that they have to "babysit"
He's a note to all fathers everywhere. It isn't babysitting if it's your own children. These are your kids. You're supposed to watch them. That's your job as a parent. You're not some humanitarian doing some big favor to the world or society in general by watching your own damn kids for a few hours
R8, I don't know where you work, but we're running a business. Not a charity for mothers.
If you think businesses should make allowances for mothers (i.e excuse them for not doing the job they were hired) , would you think it's okay if your or your children's fingers accidentally got cut off and when you went to the emergency room they told you they couldn't help you because the Dr who works here has small children and being with them is more important and the hospital had to make allowances for her. So there won't be anyone who can treat you. You are just going to have to go untreated. I have a feeling you wouldn't be fine with that. Call me crazy, but I think you'd have a fit
Or how about if someone was breaking into your house and you called the police only to be told the police woman who was supposed to respond to emergencies just had to go home and stay with her children? So now one will be responding to the person breaking into your house with plans to harm you. I don't think you would be fine with that
Or how about if you or your child is desperately ill and you need a prescription filled. You drop off the prescription and are supposed to come back in an hour to pick it up, but when you get there the pharmacy is closed and there's a note on the door that says the pharmacist has children and so she closed early. Now you can't get your prescription and the actual written script is locked up inside the closed store. So you can't even take that some where else to get it filled. So now you or your child has to do with out the medication. Tell me you would be okay with that. I'm thinking you wouldn't be okay with this at all
Or how about if you were getting married and the photographer can't do the job because she has small children and really needs to spend time with them. So you'll have to get married without a photographer or find someone else in the next few days. This is another thing I don't think you would be fine with that either. But if I'm wrong about this, please disabuse me of that notion
That's the thing with businesses, if customers can't depend on them to provide the services they are supposed to they'll go somewhere else. And customers don't really care if the reason a business can't do what they promised to do, what they were paid to do is because one of the employees can't be depended on because she has a child/children. Employees aren't supposed to bring their personal problems to work. It isn't their employers or their coworkers problem
I have a hard time believing she said, "and the rest of you don't." Whether you exaggerated, OP, is important.
If she did say that, you can dismiss that as her frustration talking, and something not actually directed at the rest of you. It happens to everyone. There's no way in hell that you always say, "I love my job/I enjoy my job/extended hours are fine..." in all circumstances.
If she's simply a nutcase who shouldn't be working with anyone, such a diagnosis would not hinge solely upon her having a child at home. Yet you seem to want to make this about that. Agendaaaaaaaaaaa.
A lot of these issues are worsened because at many workplaces, staff has been cut to the bone. People are already doing the work that was once done by 2 or 3 people. Throw in a team member who isn't pulling their weight and it has a serious impact.
We only have one mother in my workgroup. She leaves early all the time to deal with the kid. I also have to deal with coworkers who call in sick all the time, especially on Mondays & Fridays.
My boss won't let me schedule any vacation time because I'm the only person who knows how to my job, yet one of my teammates is taking Monday & Tuesday off and she's only been there for 2 months.
meh, like it or not, sometimes humans can not work extra hours due to child related problems.
your employer need to higher another person, a back up person, who can cover the extra work so yourself and your coworkers dont have to pick up the slack.
no need to hate the woman who needs to be home with her child. hate your boss for being a cheap ass who wont pay the added insurance/training to cover what really boils down to HIS workload.
please tell me the DL trolls are populating this thread.
i am an american and i am really bothered with the lack of respect for people who raise children (you all had mothers, or fathers, and shame on you!) and the total negation of blame twards a boss who would put his employees in this position.
this behavior of blaming eachother for problems that are put on you by a person who is profiting off of you is just absurd. please, stop it.
i expect behavior like this from ignorant republicans, but not us.
R72, I am sitting at my computer virtually cheering and applauding your post! I hope others admire it as well. I would love to print your post and show it to all my friends, single like myself, who are sick of all this fucking entitled breeder shit in the workplace.
You made great examples! I daresay most of shit goes on in office jobs; I doubt people on a factory line get cut as many breaks; I could be wrong.
Another good example might be: restaurants. Would anyone want to hear: sorry, your meal is going to arrive late/cold/WHENever; a server has a child issue.
ALTHOUGH: the poster pointing out that owners of businesses could hire more people to have more backup, has a good point, but unlikely in this economy where business owners are being just as cheap as they can get away with.
THis all having been said, I'm sure it is challenging for mothers when their kids are sick. Not sure what immediate solutions are, but perhaps, think twice before taking super-demanding jobs. OR, as someone upthread suggested, if people with children have to take a very excessive amount of time off, continually (not maternity leave or family leave, both legal), perhaps this should reflect in their compensation.
having children is a fact of life. it is a right, we dont have to ask our employer if its ok to decide to have a child. this is not a womens issue, its a human issue. gay men can have a child with intent (or without, i guess? lol), women can have a child without intending to get pregnant. if we decided that having children was a penalty, oh the fun employers would have!
this USED to be a purely womens issue. this is now an everyones issue.
what job ISNT super demanding? all employers WANT you to do whatever they ask. is it fair? no.
this is when unions came into play. there used to be unions for nearly every type of job you could think of. employers were held responsible to their workers to give every employee fair working environments and competitive wages.
republicans have almost completely done away with unions, because it doesnt protect business owners, it protects workers. and who has all the money?
so, weve done away with workers rights. cool. now instead of reforming unions and bonding with eachother as workers to stand up for equal rights, lets fight with eachother and blame that guy who has to leave work 1 day a week for cancer treatmens, who has no insurance, or that mother who has to leave her job that pays minimum wage to go pick up her barfing kid from school. because THEY are the assholes.
and... just an FYI, unions were formed in the great depression. because people were desperate for work, and employers were paying nothing, getting fat and happy, while adults AND children were working 15 hours a day and hardly making enough to feed themselves.
and then, white trashians bitch and moan about illegals coming into this country and "taking our jobs".
these are the same people who support republican ideas to do away with unions. only a tiny, very very tiny amount of farm workers are in unions anymore. everyone hates mexicans (im west coast, im sure east coast has their own version of "mexicans") for "takkin their jerrrbs!" but when unions were done away with no average american could live on the salary vs the long, hard, back breaking work farm workers do. so they higher immigrants, usually illegals, to work for cents, not dollars, cents an hour.
this has taken billions out of our economy and killed the crop prices. farmers went lower and lower in prices to keep competetive, they could afford it, paying workers so little, they ran them selves out of business and sold out to huge corperations, like monsanto, who is now feeding us GARBAGE and ruining our environment.
so, yeah. really, fuck that bitch who has to go home to her baby. who the fuck does she think she is anyway?!?!
You choose to have kids.l refuse to be punished for not having kids....in my case cannot hav kids. Thank God my company has common sense.
There are times when a parent will need to take off to care for a sick child. That happens and you work around it. The issue with parents is they go crazy and expect rules to bend for them. It's also unfair to blame the whole issue on mothers because some fathers act just as crazy. I had one father tell me he needed to leave work every day at 3 PM to be home to prepare his child's snack. WTF? HR responded that he needed to be at work until COB or find another job. He left. We had a mother who broke down in tears when told she couldn't leave early 3 times a week to attend afterschool soccer games. Where does this idea even come from? We have a business to run and our clients rely on these people. She lasted about 6 more months before she quit to be a stay at home mom.
Typical American sense of entitlement to believe that they deserve to have it all.
If you want a career, have a career and recognize that you'll have to make sacrifices. If you want to be a parent, recognize that someone (either the mom OR the dad) should really stay home and give that their full attention.
How much of a parent are you really being, anyway, if nannys/babysitters/etc. are the ones really watching the kids?
R83 doesn't live in the same world as the rest of us.
We are not really bashing all mothers here -- only the ones who abuse their precious mom status.
I too believe that telecommuting tends to be BS and prefer that people be on site to communicate quickly and to take care of emergencies in a more hands-on way. At our company we had working moms and people who "had" to buy enormous exurban houses two hours from the office and hated the drive. I played a part in limiting (but not abolishing) the telecommute options. A certain number of times a month and had to have advance notice, not just call in that morning.
I know there are extremes and I try to be understanding, but...I'll never forget a job I had where, every Christmas Eve, I was the one who came into work while most of the other employees (all women) took off. My manager (a woman) said to me, "Well, you should be here since you don't have anything else to do!" meaning since I didn't have kids I didn't have a life. I never forgot (or forgave) that comment.
The answer to mothers cheating the system by taking a full time jobs that they are not capable of working full time is to make more PART-TIME POSITIONS with good benefits available to working mothers.
As a working single woman with no children I would have no problem with this arrangement. If you can only work part-time than only get paid part-time- it's quite simple and fair. I have a problem with anyone that tries to cheat the system. Having children is no excuse for working part-time in a full-time position and getting paid a full-time salary.
A kid trumps DVRd episodes of Real Housewives, OP, but the bitch was wrong to trivialize her coworkers' relationships.
[quote]Typical American sense of entitlement to believe that they deserve to have it all.
Bitch is from India.
Eat the baby
I agree R87. The problem is decent part-time positions are exceedingly rare. My sister-in-law job-shares at a public hospital in quite a senior position. (She could make a lot more money at a private hospital, but the private sector isn't interested in catering to those arrangements.) And she had to prove herself for many years as a full-time employee, before they would consider hiring her as a part-timer.
No one person's life is more or less important than anothers, R88. Whether they choose to spend their time raising children or lying on the couch watching TV is their choice and no one's business.
Even if you believe that people raising kids deserve special treatment, to be at all fair it has to be extracted from the populace as whole (i.e. tax breaks for parents, or companies must hire extra workers to pick up the slack).
But you can't say worker X has a child and worker Y does not, therefore we will penalize worker Y with a percentage of the workload that worker X is being paid to do.
[quote] BUT after the meeting telling us about this project a female co-worker said to me, "I am going to talk to the manager, I have a small baby and can't work extended hours or Saturdays. I have a family and the rest of you don't."
And what was your response to that? Did you just sit there in silence? Did you voice your opinion?
[quote]The rest of us are two other gay guys who are partnered, a partnered lesbian and some empty nesters. That's not family?
Did you say that to her?
Bitchin' on an anonymous board about those icky breaders (women only, of course) will not do zero for your work situation.
If many of these spoiled suburbanites would try and get by with ONE vehicle, ONE phone, ONE television and forgo the expensive lattes, annual family vacations, give their kids ONE toy for Xmas, birthdays, etc. and live a less materialistic existence it would be economically possible to live on ONE salary if the husband or wife had a decent job. Everyone is so preoccupied with 'keeping up with the Jones' and having the latest i-phone or flatscreen it serves them right to have to work 60-70 hours per week. I'm still watching the first TV set I bought back in 1990, use a landline, drive an economy car and never go out for dinner. Yes, I'm a minimalist and I'm HAPPY.
R83 and R94 are absolutely correct. Either you dedicate to work so that you can afford proper arrangements for your child (nanny, daycare, babysitter) or you dedicate to your child/household expense management with one stay at home parent and one working parent. Usually parents who are doing what R45 states really don't get 'it' and are trying to have the best of both worlds.
Why punish women who have unsupportive husbands?
r87 is right on. The fact that many companies no longer offer part time positions is not my (FTE) problem. Again, it's rooted in asenine management that will push and push until you push back. The moment they decide your position or entire department or entire product line is not needed, believe me, you'll find out how invaluable you really aren't, no matter how many years of unpaid overtime you have devoted to the machine. I used to be so afraid of losing my job, until my entire department was eliminated and we all found new jobs. I think that had some unintended consequences - someone no longer afraid to say they're being mismanaged.
And I found out that mom who just HAD to come in to work in order to afford the McMansion and the latest minivan and the Audi and the iPods for her 2 boys is now in a position she hates and is making her fat. It's her choice.
[quote] Why punish women who have unsupportive husbands?
Don't underestimate the number of women who won't allow their male partner to share the child tasks or who criticise their male partner so much about how they do the tasks that he stops doing them.
There seems to be a sub-set of mothers who need to be needed - including some of those who still do the washing for their live-at-home adult children.
One of the lesbians
Good point, R98. And a whole subset of people who don't feel alive unless they are "doing everything" and then complaining about how hard it is. I have that friend with an out of work husband at home -- and a nanny is STILL raising the child, so to speak. So nanny and husband are the couple babies see every day? But she refuses to believe the husband could handle it or do it right so...
R71 and R83 ...please. Just please.
"Why do mothers abandon their kids so they can go to work?"
Ummm, maybe because our economy now is set up to screw over the middle class, so a one-income family is a rarity AND a luxury? I'm sorry, but I know very, very few people in my professional and social circles who can afford for one parent to stay home while the other brings home the bacon. More times than not, both parents have to work just to make ends meet. And by "making ends meet," I *don't* mean being able to afford a fucking McMansion or a third car or an 80-inch flat-screen TV; I mean being able to pay for healthcare bills, groceries, clothes, and the fucking mortgage.
Corporations now own our country (if you live in the U.S.), own BOTH of our excuses for political parties (Democrats after all are the kinder, gentler version of the Republicans), and are set up to benefit the relative handful of people at the top. and many working moms have no choice but to care for their kids when the choices are to screw over their coworkers or to screw over their own goddamned KIDS.
Maybe instead of bitching on a message board about how unfair it is to have to pick up the slack for a parent who has to care for a kid who has pneumonia and needs the time off, you should get involved with groups that empower and embolden working people and the quality of life for EVERYONE in the workplace. Get involved in politics so you can fight, and even primary, the assholes who put corporations rather than people first. Speak up at hearings and make your voice heard, so that more and more corporate leaders will be forced to acknowledge the human faces behind the bottom line. Be a "friend of" a union like the AFL-CIO or SEIU and do what you can to help what remnants of our country's broken unionized powers still exist. But stop trashing on the parents who might be fighting tooth and nail in their own lives to make sure that their own children HAVE a fucking life.
People can't afford to be a one income family because they have to have the McMansion, a new car every two years, every new electronic gadget under the sun, and everything else.
And they're no better off for it.
I want to know what company R45 works for...sounds like a good deal to me.
Out of work for 2 1/2 years and need a job.
I've worked with plenty of parents who've managed to meet all their responsibilities, and was always happy to accommodate those people within reason.
But about 10 years ago, in a different office (a magazine with a national headquarters in New York), I had two "problem parents" (both of whom happened to be women), who had worked under a spineless supervisor for many years. Apparently no one had tracked their time out of the office for a while.
The first year I started, I just kept track. One of them burned up all her vacation and sick leave by the end of April (!), while the other ran out of time by June.
The "June" mom put in a weeklong vacation request at the beginning of July -- she wanted off the week before Labor Day. I turned it down and she hit the roof, yelling and getting very emotional. I sent her home.
She called me later that afternoon and said she and her husband had already put down an unrefundable payment on a Disney vacation for that week. When I told her that was unfortunate, but that she was out of days off, she lost it again.
It was so bad I had to report it to the HR department in the New York office, and the HR director came up with a solution: since she'd already committed the money (or so she said), give her the time off unpaid.
When she came back to the office the next day, I told her we'd worked it out so she could have the time off, but she wouldn't be paid.
And she told me that was "unacceptable."
And I fired her.
[quote] And I fired her.
Why? She had only asked for leave.
R104, if you read the message, then you saw the poster had to send the woman home because she had a melt down. Yelling at your supervisor like that alone was enough to get her fired, assuming that there wasn't a union involved or any employment laws in the way.
r105 is right -- she actually had two meltdowns in two days; when she told me unpaid leave was "unacceptable," she started shrieking again in front of her coworkers.
Have any of you heard the old sayings "You have shot yourself in the foot" or "cut off your nose to spite your face". These apply to working mothers and for that matter the workforce in general.
I think most reasonable people do not have a problem with things like maternity rights and some leeway within reason for working mothers. Over many, many years they have abused it. They have been given an inch and they took a mile.
In the UK working mothers are helped out a hell of a lot.
Some working mothers want to pick the hours they work, start late and finish early for the school run. This is abused. In the UK most schools are able to accommodate children from 8.30 a.m. for breakfast clubs and so on. Most office workers start at 9.00 a.m. Why the hell the British tax payer has to fund childrens breakfast is beyond me. In my opinion it is the job of the parent to ensure their child has breakfast.
Where I work there are two working mothers who both live a 10 minute drive from work. They stroll in everyday at 9.30 a.m. Bear in mind I have already said that they could drop their kids off at school at 8.30 a.m. how the hell does it take 1 hour to do a 10 minute drive, even if you allow for rush hour traffic. To put the tin hat on it they complain about no parking spaces being left for them when they arrive. I should explain that we have limited parking for staff, its a first come, first serve basis. I get to work everyday at 8.30 a.m. eventhough I don't officially start until 9.00 a.m. but I want a parking space and am determined to get one. Do they seriously think that I should not take up one of those parking spaces and leave it for them, when they stroll in at 9.30 a.m.
One of them leaves at 3.30 p.m. everyday, the other works until 5.30 p.m. but finishes at 3.00 p.m. on a Friday - how convenient.
As for holidays, only two people in my department are allowed to be off work at any one time. It makes sense to me that if a particular date or time of year is important to you book it early. I always like Christmas off and Easter therefore I put my application form in months in advance. One of the working mothers left it until really late with her Christmas form, even though she knew the rules, she filling in the form and as she handed it to the Manager she said "I have to have Christmas off, I have children". Again she should have put her form in sooner. She got her wish and had the time off, but so did I.
I never get any time off in the Summer, except for one day which is a Bank Holiday. The summer months are dominated by the two working mothers. No one else gets a look in. One of my male colleagues never gets any time off in the summer either because of them and he has a legitmate excuse as his wife is a teacher.
One of the working mothers manages to get a lot of extra days of as her kid is always sick. I guess she is getting at least another 7 days a year out of it. It's all the usual kids sickness stuff, nothing serious.
It's the same for the work force in general as well. In the UK local authorities pay 6 months full sick pay and a further 6 months half sick pay. So basically you can have six months off sick every year without losing a penny of your income. There are plans to change it. Why because it's been so abused by employees. Many would treat the sick time as extra holidays.
Like I said people have shot themselves in the foot. Don't just blame the big corporations. Yes they are to blame but they are only reacting to stop bad practices in the workforce.
End of rant
It's 2013, and I'm wondering why more companies don't allow working from home/telecommuting as an option. Yes, I understand it is a privilege that, like everything else, can be abused; but for responsible parents who really do need to balance home and work duties, it can be a godsend and (literally) a lifesaver.
I work for an IT company and there is virtually no such thing as "sick time" unless you're either a) deathly ill and literally can't function in a sitting position or b) away from the office for two hours for a "partial sick" timeslot to see a doctor or dentist. When you are home sick, or at home with the kids when *they* are sick, you are expected to connect to the company network and to the instant-messaging system so you can be online and working at all times when you are home. Our workplace rewards (or punishes) its workers based on performance or lack thereof, so if you don't produce, you don't get paid.
Working parents do take time off to attend to childcare duties, but they are expected to make up the time off-hours or on the weekends. It's the 21st century, and it's just a fact of life that you really do take work with you wherever you go these days...
I haven't had that many different employers over the years but none have had cushy pay, vacation, or benefits programs and the last two (including the current one) have been disillusioning.
My current employer is a non-profit, taxpayer funded organization. They floated a bond issue this year and I discovered, in the months leading up to the public vote, that some service numbers were fudged, making on location look better than it was. This location would have been the main beneficiary of the millions in bond funding.
I bumped what I found up the chain and am now probably black balled for any raises or promotions. Sometimes I think I should have just taken it to the media that was given the incorrect numbers to publish, but I didn't because by then it was obvious the bond proposal was going to fail.
Basically I just screwed myself for being honest and not looking the other way.
103, god I would never want to work for a hardass like you. You obviously shouldn't be in a position to fire anyone.
"Oh my God. I'm back. I'm home. All the time, it was... We finally really did it ... You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
We are switching to the new platform for The DataLounge this weekend. All of our mobile users have been using it for over a week and all first time users have been using it for about a month - which adds up to well over one million users. So we're ready to end this phase of the testing and move everybody to the new site. (more)
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But it was time for a change and with the huge shift to mobile it was long overdue. We've taken this opportunity not only to update the look but also make major changes under the hood (or "bonnet" if you're either British or pretentious or both). And we have to prepare for 2016 - a presidential election year where we can normally expect to see a 60% jump in traffic (yes, we've seen 5 presidential elections so far…Christ we're old).
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