- This story will have no legs.
- The real story is--she ran into his legs. She ran into his legs TEN TIMES.
- LOL, R1. You're swift!
- Extreme way to avoid admitting he didn't get her a Valentine's Day gift.
- How horrible can you imagine the shock of realizing what he had done?
- Next time, just buy the box of candy, Pistol Pistorius.
- I had always thought if he were to kill someone it would be by stump fuck.
- Is he missing anything besides his legs?
- He feels like less of a man for doing it.
- He's got a great body other than the missing legs. I bet he's a hot fuck.
- Murder's afoot!
- The old, "I thoght she was a burglar" line.
- How could you shoot a person 4 times without realizing it's someone you know?
- He shot her twice, according to news reports--in the arm and in the head. Could he really have mistaken her if he shot her twice?
- He is hot, I wonder if he would accompany me to Six Flags. We have nothing left to lose...
A woman has been found dead in the home of South African paralympic sprinter Oscar Pistorius.
According to Reuters, Pistorius is being questioned by South African police about the incident. Domestic media reports say the victim is Pistorius' girlfriend, though the woman's name has not yet been released.
Police spokesperson Captain Sarah Mcirca confirmed that the victim was shot in the arm and the head, USA today reported.
Pistorius, 26, who was born without a fibula in both legs, was the first double amputee to run in the Olympics. Nicknamed the "Blade Runner," Pistorius was able to compete by wearing carbon fiber prosthetic blades.
- It's much cleaner to drown her in the pool.
- [quote]The old, "I thoght she was a burglar" line.
An oldie but a goodie!
- Reeva Steenksmp was the girlfriend. Gorgeous woman, very tragic. I hope he can recover
- [quote]I hope he can recover
He'll just need a leg up.
- r14 - That article says she was shot in the head and arm, not that she was shot twice.
The article the OP links to has this quote from the police spokesperson:
[quote]"The deceased was shot four times and died on the scene. It is believed that she was the girlfriend of the accused," said Mogale.
Who knows though?
- I'd give an arm and two legs to know what he's feeling right now.
- She prob was cheating on him and he "accidentally" shot her. This wasn't an accident.
- If any of these jokes make it on Wit & Wisdom I'll be pissed. They are all so lame.
- She was gorgeous..wow. She weeted 14 hours ago
- Don't believe his story for minute. They need to find out if they were having issues in their relationship. His story seems very suspect.
- One more example of the mess guns cause.
- Were there any ninja intruders? That's always believable.
- Some of you people sound like such yahoos.
- I was just speaking to a South African friend and apparently being accidentally shot by someone you know is actually a real problem there.
There was a case a little while back of a father accidentally shooting his daughter.
There is so much fear and crime in South Africa.so many people I know have emigrated to Australia or the UK because they know someone who has been shot or killed by some random stranger.
In a society that lives on fear and breeds fear it is not hard to see why someone could be accidentally shot.
Sad very sad.
- These things happen.
- It's not a bigger problem than it is anywhere else with guns, R31. But people not only live with fear, but work themselves up through the media.
That dad shot his daughter through a closed door - she was going to her parents room (they did have intruders), but why people shoot when they can't even SEE a threat frightens me.
I don't have a gun and I don't live in a security estate like Oscar, and I don't feel unsafe in a general sense, although we are cautious.
- "...previous allegations of a domestic nature"
Not an accident.
- [quote]Who knows though?
- South Africa's rates of gun violence are insane. They make the US look like utopia.
- Oh...my...GAWD, totally unreal!
- Mistook for an intruder - bullshit.
Apparently the area where he lives is super secure. There is a high wall with electric fencing and gates, with security guards - one hell of an intruder to get through that.
I couldn't believe the way it was reported on Sky news this morning. That he accidently shot her thinking she was an intruder. They reported that she was shot to the head twice and upper body.
The word 'accident' implies that the gun went off accidentally, you would not expect it to 'accidentally' go off 2 or 3 times.
He is apparently a super hero over in South Africa, described by the British media as the South African version of David Beckham. That means there will be total bias reporting in his favour.
- Yeah, this may have actually been planned... The police have been called for domestic arguments before.
- "As SA Police Services we do not have a report based on those allegations. We only heard over the radio that the woman was shot after she was mistaken for an intruder."
- The news is now saying they were having problems, lots of domestic abuse calls. Neighbors always hear them fighting about who takes out the garbage.
- Guns don't kill people- beloved Olympic heroes kill people.
- Did he win the regular Olympics or the special Olympics?
- Roid rage.
- It wouldn't be fair for him to compete in the regular Olympics since he's basically half machine, a real bionic man.
- r31, that sounds like the NRA's DREAM!
- I would imagine that his PR team sent the 'burglar' story out this morning. They worked VERY hard today.
- But guns [bold]save[/bold] lives!
- Could he go to prison? They don't have prisons built for him.
- According to CNN, when the press reached Pistorius's father for comment, he said basically "I am very sad right now... I don't know the facts so I won't speculate." Interesting that he didn't immediately insist "my son would never do such a thing!" as most parents would. Sounds like he's very sad...but not very surprised or doubtful of his sons' guilt.
- The news said he's in jail now. Why would you be in jail for shooting a burglar?
- @R 51 that's just it, she was his girlfriend and not a bulgar.
The story seems to have more holes in it than anything.
- He would be taken into custody and questioned until police are satisfied it was an accident if indeed it was I assume.
- I only shoot boxes of kittens, but I'd shoot my girlfriend if I knew she wasn't a Patriot.
- It's being reported that he has been charged with Murder. Police intend to oppose bail.
- Murder of what? A burglar? Stand your ground!
- R31, he live is a secure townhouse complex in South Africa. The reason for the gun is probably male pride, and the reason for the shooting is probably NOT a case of mistaken identity.
- The news said the girlfriend went over to his house to surprise him for Valentine's Day with breakfast.
- I guess she was the one who got the surprise.
- Just goes to show, you give a man two legs up (and spread), and he runs all over you.
- "The police spokeswoman Denise Beukes said earlier reports that the suspect had been surprised by his girlfriend and had thought she was an intruder did not come from police.
She said there had been reports from neighbours of shouting and screaming coming from the house earlier in the evening. She said police had been called to the house on previous occasions after reports of "a domestic nature"."
- Again, don't believe anything the press is saying. He's a hero in their eyes and they will take his side before thinking he's capable of murder. The neighbors heard them fighting, so this is a domestic issue, which lead to her death. They have also had domestic issues in the past and the authorities were called. You do the math?
Burglar my ass!!
- @ R 56 you must have been born yesterday if you believe that bullshit story.
- I'm surprised he had a girlfriend. Handicapped men usually don't
- He looks like a domestic abuser/murderer. It's in the eyes.
- Every South African I've known has been fucking insane.
- He's the OJ Simpson of South Africa.
- He should have beat her with his blades and then it would have been something right out of Sordid Lives.
- He wanted my fibulas.
- Never heard of him before, but he's cute.
[quote]He's the O J Simpson of South Africa.
Without however the Bruno Magli shoes.
- They only met in November or something. Seems a bit soon to be having screaming domestic dramas.
- [quote]Never heard of him before, but he's cute.
Have you been in a coma?
- Athletes rarely kill their wives unless they have already divorced them. They kill their girlfriends more often than their girlfriends kill them.
- R71 wins.
- R64 - handsome men missing limbs or in a wheelchair pretty much have to fight women off.
- If the blade don't fit you must acquit!
- Oshcar Pishtorioush
- Yeah, it could be an accident.
- Too bad-he's a very hot guy.
- [quote]The news said the girlfriend went over to his house to surprise him for Valentine's Day with breakfast.
And so begins the media bullshit.
- Blade Gunner
- It's being reported that there have been at least 4 calls to his residence of a domestic disturbance nature in the past.
- Would he be allowed to wear his blades in a South African prison ?
- Domestic disturbance is in the article in OP's link, but I guess people didn't read it, or are ignoring it.
- [quote]I'm surprised he had a girlfriend. Handicapped men usually don't
He's handsome, from a wealthy family and he was earning about 2 million a year from his endorsements. A guy like that would have a model girlfriend if he had no dick, nevermind legs.
- Right to bear arms, but not legs
- Since the SA police have charged him with murder, apparently they are not buying the "accident" story either.
- I guess the police are immune to the media's worship of this guy.
We don't have that in the US anymore.
- Yes, I totally agree. He is a MONSTER!
- R90, you might be one of the biggest morons on earth. Seriously. I mean they should study you and isolate whatever makes you this stupid.
- His package looks quite nice.
- Of course they are ignoring the domestic violence calls...just stupid hero worship. They could care less about the victim.
- I suppose he can TRY to argue a self-defense plea in court...
but he won't have a leg to stand on.
- Not surprised. I could tell he was a Lance Armstrong two-faced asshole type by the way he reacted to losing to that Brazilian kid in the Paralympics. Hope he rots in prison on his stumps.
- I have forgotten the details but seems like there was an incident of bad behavior on his part at the para Olympics after he lost a race.
- I liked him at the beginning. But his bitchiness after losing in the Paralympics, signaled that he wasn't this nice, humble guy that he was publically portraying. Don't buy for a second this was an accident either.
- Where was the body found?
- A bit off topic...
The level of violent crimes, including murder and rape, has skyrocketed in recent years in South Africa, Johannesburg especially. The government and the police cannot handle it. Factors for its rise include the horrible economy in Africa and the influx of people looking for work from other parts of the continent.
A friend recently visited his family in Johannesburg. He needed an armed escort from his father's home back to his hotel. A female relative escaped an attempted rape at a busy shopping mall. Going by train from Johannesburg to Cape Town, he contrasted the beauty of the country with the crude huts along the the tracks. He said that people there live in "cages," their homes surrounded by high walls with electrified wires on top. My friend is very liberal, but he said that living in such conditions would drive him to obtain an assault weapon.
- R95, truer words never spoken. He was a right asshole. Sore fucking loser.
- Maybe if she hadn't brought him Legos as a Valentine's Day present...
- "But ya are, Blanche. Ya are."
- R99 I have a feeling the accused would have done the same thing in Cedar Rapids, IA.
- His lady was super hot too
- I knew the second I heard this story that it was bullshit.
- AppRently, they only have been dating TWO months. How can you have deadly domestic problems in eight weeks?
- How ironic will it be that the "OJ of Africa" is actually white?
- Heads up, Rihanna.
- They must have very tall, leggy, slim, with long blonde hair crooks in South Africa - unless she had quite a Valentine's Day disguise on or he's blind. Also, if his parents are loaded with money they may have friends in the media spinning the story.
- It's obvious now he shot her intentionally.
- It wasn't me! It was the two-legged man!
- LOL - that's the best one yet.
- I told you he was gay
- Who's 'illegal' now?
- Typical racist cant R99. Remember a few year ago when carjacking was all the rage in Jo-burg? In truth, S.A. is still not as violent as the USA, despite the huge disparity in incomes. And let's deconstruct the little story. If things are so bad economically, how is it that people from all over Africa are rushing there? The UK and US press have had a consistently negative view of South Africa since 1994 driven because post-apartheid South Africa has been a notable success for leftist government. Horror stories about HIV and violence are just part of the whole smear campaign. The country functions better NOW than it did in 1994, and the whites are as well aware of it as the blacks, which is why there has been no significant outmigration in comparison to say Zimbabwe.
- [quote]no significant outmigration
- R116 Indeed. Also, it's not true. Loads of people are emigrating from South Africa. 25% of the white population left between 1995 and 2009 (lots of non-whites are emigrating too, just not quite as much). Most of them seem to be living in London if my experience is anything to go by.
And if the stories I've heard from them about the level of violence in South Africa are true, I'm not surprised. Outside of the nice bits of Capetown and tourist areas, it sounds fucking terrifying.
- [quote]The 30-year-old model, who with Pistorius formed South Africa's equivalent of Posh and Becks, also expressed her excitement for the big day on Twitter, saying: "What do you have up your sleeve for your love tomorrow??? #getexcited #ValentinesDay"
Shit. That hashtag should be #getexecuted.
- [quote]Loads of people are emigrating from South Africa
Remember the stink in Nebraska when a SA white kid won a school's "African American" award?
- Just forgot the dash:
out-mi·grate [out-mahy-greyt] Show IPA
verb (used without object), out-mi·grat·ed, out-mi·grat·ing.
to leave a region, community, etc., to move or settle into a different part of one's country or home territory: People are no longer out-migrating from the South in such large numbers.
- Sounds like a gem:
n February 2009 he crashed a speed boat on South Africa's Vaal river, breaking his nose, jaw and several ribs. Witnesses said he had been drinking before the crash and officers found alcohol in the wreckage, though they acknowledged they had not conducted a blood test on Pistorius.
In November last year, a newspaper claimed Pistorius "threatened to break the legs" of the friend of a man whom he believed had slept with his then girlfriend. The police became involved before the dispute was eventually resolved.
His colourful love life is never far from the gossip columns. Recent media interviews with Pistorius revealed that he kept an assortment of weapons in his home. "Cricket and baseball bats lay behind the door, a pistol by his bed and a machine gun by a window," Britain's Daily Mail noted in a profile.
Pistorius posted a photograph of himself at a shooting range in November 2011 on Twitter, boasting about his score: "Had a 96% headshot over 300m from 50shots! Bam!"
- He has the word "blade" in his nickname. Is this really any shock?
- [quote]The country functions better NOW than it did in 1994, and the whites are as well aware of it as the blacks, which is why there has been no significant outmigration in comparison to say Zimbabwe.
Oh, horseshit. I've visited a friend there who works for USAID and its a goddamned nightmare. And all the whites who could leave already had by 1995 because they knew it would be a disaster and were right. Africa these days seems to be simply ungovernable.
- [quote]The story seems to have more holes in it than anything.
'Anything' presumably not including me right now
- Ha WW for r124. You are right though, he really shot her up which makes it seem he was trying to murder her, if it's a burglar I would think you would shoot to incapacitate and then call for help.
- He was probably drunk. He already had a boating accident that caused serious injuries to him. The police found alcohol and empties on the boat but did not give him a sobriety test.
- When he fronts the court he won't have a leg to stand on when the charges are laid out.
- His girlfriend is gorgeous, he had to be totally insane to kill her.
- Will he get away with shooting a woman in a fit of roid rage?
What's the South African justice system like these days? Do rich and famous people get away with murder, like they do in LA?
- [quote]His girlfriend is gorgeous, he had to be totally insane to kill her.
So you're saying, were she less pretty, it would have been more understandable that he killed her.
- R73 - why should I know him? I don't follow the Olympics, never mind the Paralympics.
- He was the one who got all of the press for running on those new artificial legs, right? Who was in both the Olympics and the paralymics? (Want to make sure I am thinking of the right person).
- Yes, R132.
- ok, thanks, R133
- Would Oscar go to a para-convict prison, or would he insist on going to a regular one? I don't think he will be found guilty since people will be sympathetic to this situation having adversely affected his career.
- r135 Which situation? the leglessness? He has had no legs since he was a baby so he can't pull that bullshit sympathy card.
- r136, no, the situation of his girlfriend being killed. It's going to affect his availability to race.
- [quote] In truth, S.A. is still not as violent as the USA, despite the huge disparity in incomes. And let's deconstruct the little story. If things are so bad economically, how is it that people from all over Africa are rushing there?
Yes. South Africa has to be a true paradise on earth if anyone is even thinking of leaving, much less rushing to move away from wonderful, wonderful countries such as Zimbabwe, Rwanda, Somalia, The Sudan, Angola, Ethiopia and Uganda in order to move to South Africa. Each of those places is like heaven on earth.
[quote] Horror stories about HIV and violence are just part of the whole smear campaign
Really? Because we should stop giving them BILLIONS and BILLIONS of U.S tax dollars for HIV treatment.
I'm glad you told me this. I am going to sit down right now and write letters informing Bill Gates, Bill Clinton and their foundations about this smear campaign. They can keep their personal BILLIONS that they've - according to you - wasted on HIV treatment to a country that doesn't have an HIV problem. And maybe South Africa can stop begging everyone in the world for money for help in treating their very, very few if any HIV patients.
- [quote]people will be sympathetic to this situation having adversely affected his career.
Yes, it is most unfortunate.
BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!
- I think one of the bigger horror stories to come out of S. Africa is this. But thank god he helped to clear up all that misinformation in the AIDS smear campaigns against his county.:
[quote]Mbeki has received worldwide criticism for his AIDS stance. He questions the link between viruses and AIDS and believes that the correlation between poverty and the AIDS rate in Africa was a challenge to the viral theory of AIDS. His fate was not helped by Health Minister Manto Tshabalala-Msimang and the overhaul of the pharmaceutical industry in South Africa. The delay in distributing antiretroviral drugs is attributed to the ban he placed on their use in public state hospitals, and is also linked to the estimated deaths of some hundreds of thousands. Thabo Mbeki has also been criticized for responding to negative comments made about his government by accusing critics of racism.
- South Africa has gay marriage!
- He probably won't be convicted. He will be known as the OJ of South Africa.
- God, the Amy Bishop troll is tiresome.
- [quote]He was probably drunk. He already had a boating accident that caused serious injuries to him.
He was a pretty accurate shot for someone drunk.
- Can someone please explain what happened in the "sore loser" incident that R95 & R96 mentioned? TIA!
see link for answer
- Who the fuck is the scaremonger posting here?
If the murder charge sticks - HE is what we are all afraid of. Not some invisible burglar threat.
Our murder rates aren't just poor black people targeting rich white people. Poor black people kill poor black people. White people, rich and poor, kill each other.
I'm much more likely to be murdered by someone I know.
Come live here you racist cunts, before carrying on and on about a 'friend' who had a horrible time.
- Well, r144, it sounds like being an accurate shot wasn't one of the more important accomplishments in his life, eh? Lucked out?
- Why was such a beautiful model with an ordinary-looking guy?
- He's a rich celebrity, R149. And a lot of people consider him hot (the 'no legs' thing aside).
- If it's a gated building where you need ID to go inside, why would he not know who was coming to his building?
Ordinary looking guy? Perfect beautiful body. Don't you see that nice rump and full crotch. I think his face is beautiful.
Come on DL, he just murdered a cunt, she was a cunt so what's the big deal?
- Because maybe there had been a rash of hippies in floppy hats making the rounds and robbing people.
- r152 needs to be banned
- What full crotch? Pics please.
- He's only 26?? He looks way older than that. I thought he was mid-30s. Why was the model dating such a kid?
- Maybe the money & fame, R156?
- How tall is he? He seems to be way taller than his model girlfriend. And she is pretty tall.
- He was always trigger-happy. In the past he tweeted:
Nothing like getting home to hear the washing machine on and thinking its an intruder to go into full combat recon mode into the pantry! waa
- What a surprise. He's a born-again Christian.
- The South African media claim that there is a lot of violence in the country and that people are worried about home invasions. Apparently these accidental shootings happen quite frequently, if that's indeed what this is.
- [quote]What a surprise. He's a born-again Christian.
Was he practicing abstinence before marriage?
- R161, This has nothing to do with any fucking home invasion.
He was in court for his bail hearing, which has NOW been postponed. The prosecution is charging him with PREMEDITATED MURDER. He has not been released and is still in jail after being formally charged.
- R163, isn't he claiming that it was an accident and that he thought he was being burgled? What evidence is there of premeditation?
- Looking at the article, it seems she was shot 4 times, and shot in the head and upper body. That doesn't sound good.
- R164, please bother reading the thread.
- Why is he crying? Didn't he know this was going to happen when he shot her?
- R166, I have read the thread - none of us here has answers, only speculations.
- The police plan to oppose his application for bail. Hmm.
- Did he invite her over so he could shoot her? Is that what they're getting at in terms of pre-meditation?
Interesting that this happened on Valentine's Day.
- Guardian blog
- He did it. Neighbours heard screaming the night of the shooting. No-one shoots someone four times before they realise who it is. The security estate in which he lives is one of the best in SA. I am certain his own house had an alarm system itself so it would have gone off if a burglar broke into the house. I hear he has hired very good lawyers so we'll see if he gets away with murder. Maybe he will plead insanity like that dirtbag Shrien Dewani who had his wife killed on Honeymoon and is yet to be brought to trial and justice.
- R154, that theory was put out by the press NOT the police. The police has denied the home invasion story. The police knows more than us or the press. We will find out in due time...
- Sorry,I meant, R164. Typing too fast...
- So the Stand Your Ground law doesn't apply here? I would think it should.
- He could live happily gay married but he chose the relationship with a cunt for publicity and endorsements from homophobic sponsors. And now he's paying the price!
- R175 = George Zimmerman?
- Vok 90% van julle is poese!
"Innocent until proven guilty"
- Allegedly shot her through the bathroom door.
According to media reports in South Africa this morning, security guards at the complex found Pistorius by Steenkamp's body in the bathroom after she had been shot four times through the door....
....As he awaited his hearing, the Afrikaans-language Beeld newspaper said she had been hit four times, in the head, chest, pelvis and hand.
The paper, which carried the headline 'Death behind a door', quotes unnamed residents who say they had spoken to security guards at his gated complex.
'The security guards found Pistorius by Steenkamp's body in the bathroom,' the paper said on its website, citing a neighbour. 'The door had bullet holes right through it.'
It is not clear whether the door was locked at the time of the shooting.
- If she was already in the house when the shooting occurred, and not coming in the front door, that will destroy any claim that she was accidentally mistaken for a burglar.
- That poor girl was probably hiding in the bathroom and he shot through the door. The neighbors heard screaming and yelling in the house. What a fucking mental case!
- I can't get this out of my head.
- There is no way he could have mistaken her for an intruded. He is a trigger happy entitled 26 year golden boy with a bad temper.
- R97 - dammit now I am going to have that in my head all day.
- Who the fuck is on DL now?
- Is he a flight risk?
- Such a good idea to have a gun in the house.
- Reported today that he also has a MACHINE GUN at his house.
Contrary to some posts here that say S. Africa is not a violent place. BULL FUCKING SHIT. Why do these folks live in these compounds with machine guns? If you have lots of money you can buy some security of course.
- South Africa needs more guns. If only she'd taken a gun with her into the bathroom, she'd be alive today.
- Even machine guns are banned in the US.
- r73 I've never heard of Pistorius either. Are we expected to know who he is?
- South Africa is very violent. It is the rape capital of the world. It used to also be the murder capital of the world.
- She was shot in the head! And in the arm!
- We agree, r189
- I consider him to be a cheater anyway.
He had no right competing with the unfair advantaqe of two mechanical legs. Don't laugh--he's a cheater and a whiner, and now a fucking girlfriend killer.
- He cried through his first appearance in court
- the mother of Pistorious' ex-girlfriend Samantha Taylor wrote wrote on Facebook that she was "so glad that Sammy is safe and sound and out of the clutches of that man" and that "There were a few occasions where things could have gone wrong with her and his gun during the time they dated. My condolences to the family whose daughter has passed away. My heart breaks for you."
- Oscar Pistorius appeared in a crowded Pretoria courtroom today, barely a day after he was arrested for the murder of Reeva Steenkamp, his girlfriend of four months. Steenkamp was found early Thursday morning in a puddle of blood, with four gunshot wounds to her head, chest, pelvis, and hand. A 9mm pistol registered to Pistorius and recovered by police is believed to be the weapon.
Prosecutors indicated that they plan to seek the most serious charge again Pistorius, a charge of "premeditated murder." Though it had initially been floated that Pistorius might have mistaken Steenkamp for a robber, the decision to try him for premeditated murder—plus two new revelations from the South African media—shows police aren't buying the burglar story.
First, national broadsheet Beeld reports that police had been called to Pistorius's house two hours before the shooting, after neighbors complained of a loud argument between him and Steenkamp.
Second, multiple reports citing police sources claim that Steenkamp was shot through a bathroom door.
Police have confirmed that they've been called to Pistorius's exclusive gated community in the past for "incidents of a domestic nature," and he has something of a history of violence involving women. In 2009 he spent a night in jail after allegedly assaulting a 19-year-old woman who wouldn't leave a party at his house, though charges were later dropped. Last year, reportedly enraged by learning he had been cheated on by his then-girlfriend (not Steenkamp), he supposedly threatened to break a man's legs.
A joint statement from Pistorius's family and management team indicated that he plans to fight the murder charge against him. It reads:
"Firstly, and most importantly, all our thoughts today must be with the family and friends of Reeva Steenkamp.
"Oscar Pistorius has appeared in court here in Pretoria this morning formally charged with the murder of Reeva Steenkamp. The alleged murder is disputed in the strongest terms."
The statement added: "Oscar Pistorius has made history as an Olympic and Paralympic sportsman and has been an inspiration to others the world over.
"He has made it very clear that he would like to send his deepest sympathies to the family of Reeva.
"He would also like to express his thanks through us today for all the messages of support he has received – but as stated our thoughts and prayers today should be for Reeva and her family, regardless of the circumstances of this terrible, terrible tragedy."
Steenkamp was to speak to a group of high schoolers the day she died, in part about escaping an abusive relationship. Pistorius wept openly in court as his defense asked for a postponement—the hearing will be pushed back until Tuesday, and he will remain in jail until then.
- [quote]he supposedly threatened to break a man's legs.
Ah, leg envy.
- With two stumps and two holes, he'll be quite the entertaining prison bitch.
- r195 I agree that those blades seem to be unfair if he were to race non-amputees, I guess if he races other people who also have them then it is leveled out.
Why would he kill this girl though? They had only been dating for 3-4 months, doesn't seem like enough time to really hate and plot to murder someone. After that short of time you could just break up with the person with no hard feelings. And she was pretty excited about Valentine's day and being with him. It's so weird..I am waiting to see what coms next.
- probably a narcissistic rageoholic
- [quote]Why would he kill this girl though?
Because he was an abusive, paranoid asshole with a history of violence and a large array of guns?
- r203 I don't doubt that he was a whiny little bitch as has been pointed out and probably an entitled jerk. It just is weird that he would kill someone he hadn't known or dated for long or really owed anything too as far as alimony or whatever if they broke up. Jeff McDonald killed his family to get rid of a financial burden and be free to bang other chicks. Scott Peterson never wanted a kid. OJ, jealous and crazy. This guy, fuck, all he had to do was break up with her, it just seems like a really OTT thing to do.
- Well, I think a lot of crimes and murders are "OTT."
- Any possibility that drugs were involved? Maybe he didn't have all the weapons because of crime but more because he was extremely paranoid?
- Nonsense about emigration.
White South African population
As you can see it was the last years of apartheid which caused a drop in the white population, not the beginning of majority rule. Although there is emigration, the Best and Brightest have always left South Africa, especially under the British Empire. What has happened since 2001 is that natural increase has resumed AND movement of whites from Britain and other places has replaced the emigration even though whites are down to only a little over 10% of the population.
- lol r208. Wow, what will they make of this? Hell as long as they aren't interviewing more "survivors" from the nightmare cruise I will be happy.
- r201 - You've never heard of a crime of passion?
- so, did he get off yet?
- [quote]Even machine guns are banned in the US.
- "Why would he kill this girl though? They had only been dating for 3-4 months, doesn't seem like enough time to really hate and plot to murder someone"
Roid rage. When you're on enough steroids to be a modern track star, them most trivial, everyday disagreement can bring on blinding rage. Add massive privilege, entitlement, and a houseful of guns, and someone's shooting a girl who's cowering the bathroom, because they couldn't agree where to go for breakfast.
- Last Tweet from Reeva; What do you have up your sleeve for your love tomorrow?
answer; A concealed glock
- And the exaggeration begins..Jane Velez says today that Oscar and his girl were known as "two of the most beautiful people in the world" um, no they weren't, Jane. Because for that to happen they would have to be 1) known all over the world 2) conventionally beautiful all over the world Sorry but a legless guy wearing freaky blades is not it.
- "You've never heard of a crime of passion?"
Crime of "passion" is a misnomer. It mostly refers to men killing women out of possessiveness, misogyny, anger management issues and male entitlement. So, let's not call it "passion" (I'm sure a man coined this idiocy).
- "He could live happily gay married but he chose the relationship with a cunt for publicity and endorsements from homophobic sponsors. And now he's paying the price!"
You're an asshole.
- r216, Crime of Passion was a phrase used to describe female offenders.
It was believed that women were emotional to the point of instability and would react to a negative situation like a husband's affair with extreme, irrational acts like murder.
- I think the authorities are going to use the killing as an excuse to go after Pistorius. They are going to do everything they can to make his ordeal worse. Anyone could look at Oscar and tell that he wouldn't hurt anyone.
- r219 Are you being serious?
- I think if you compete in the main olympics, you forfeit your right to compete in the special olympics. something about this guy always bothered me.
- R219 = Rihanna
- I worry about people who gave a large collection of unused guns. Like Phil Spector and basketball player Jason Williams, eventually you want to see first hand just what bullets and a gun does to a live person. After all, what's the use of having guns if you don't use them to kill something or somebody? Spector and Williams barely knew the people they killed, either....
- He shot her multiple times and lives in a very secure compound. Whispers are SA police are furious because his publicist is the one floating the 'intruder' angle to exonerate him and nothing the police have released indicates any such scenario.
- So do you think that they got in a fight and she locked herself in the bathroom and he shot her through the door? That is crazy if so. She should have hidden his legs like Sir Paul used to allegedly do to Heather.
- [quote]I consider him to be a cheater anyway. He had no right competing with the unfair advantaqe of two mechanical legs. Don't laugh--he's a cheater and a whiner, and now a fucking girlfriend killer.
[quote]I don't doubt that he was a whiny little bitch as has been pointed out and probably an entitled jerk.
I never liked him even through the biased sports coverage. And he was so ungracious in defeat at the Paralympics criticising the winners blades talking about an unfair advantage without the slightest sense of irony.
[quote][bold]Oscar Pistorius angry at shock Paralympics 200m loss[/bold] ... It was not a procession or a coronation, but a race, raw and fast. And Pistorius came second. He was beaten to the line by Brazil's Alan Fonteles Cardoso Oliveira, who won in 21.45sec. Pistorius was .07sec behind him. He reacted furiously, telling the TV cameras in his post-race interview that "we aren't racing a fair race".
[quote]Pistorius was convinced that the running blades Oliveira was using were too long, and called for the International Paralympic Committee to investigate. This from a man who has had to fight long and hard to overturn doubts about whether or not he himself has an unfair advantage when he is competing against non-disabled runners.
He's always been an entitled jerk and is probably guilty.
- "I think if you compete in the main olympics, you forfeit your right to compete in the special olympics. something about this guy always bothered me. "
You were completely wrong, starting with the presumption that you can think.
"He's always been an entitled jerk and is probably guilty."
- just the sort of judgmental cunt-faced unemployed fraus who have no lives that prosecutors love to have on juries.
- A former girlfriend had said that Oscar was known for his angry outbursts.
- From r207:
White South African population:
True there was a sharp rise in white emigration after majority rule but the tide turn and many who had fled started returning especially after finding out Europe, Australia and America wasn't the utopia they'd thought and they weren't enjoying the same privileges and relative comfort they were used to.
White Africans are used to open spaces, large dwellings, servants and nature. They almost always return after experiencing life in a shoebox flat in London. Zimbabwe is the only country with a shrinking white minority, populations in South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Kenya and Mozambique are actually increasing.
- I can't think of a situation where shooting someone 4 times through a bathroom door would be justified.
- I think he has woman / anger issues. Plus he seems like a spoiled brat who's always garnered sympathy. Not a good combination.
- [quote] White Africans are used to open spaces, large dwellings, servants and nature. They almost always return after experiencing life in a shoebox flat in London. Zimbabwe is the only country with a shrinking white minority, populations in South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Kenya and Mozambique are actually increasing.
Also, there was a wave of immigration from Eastern Europe to South Africa in the 90s, and I was just recently reading an article about an economic boom in Mozambique which caused a lot of younger Portuguese to move over there given the current state of the Portuguese economy.
- His brother Carl is one hot fucker too.
- This might sound like a dumb question, but was she in the bathroom or was he? If he was in the bathroom, I can maybe see the intruder angle. However, if she was inside the bathroom, that story is dumber than a Kardashian. Why would a burglar be in the bathroom? Taking a piss, grabbing a few squirts of Drakkar Noir, then on to ransack the house. Not bloody likely.
- She was in the bathroom when she was shot four times. I think they said there were three bullet holes in her head.
- [quote]I think he has woman / anger issues. Plus he seems like a spoiled brat who's always garnered sympathy. Not a good combination.
He has mean eyes, especially if you see his interviews.
- Would he admit to 'roid use if he could get a diminished responsibility charge? Could be an interesting Catch 22 situation.
- [quote]He SAYS HE thought she was a burglar.
There, I fixed it for you, OP.
- And you wonder who these freaks are who write to prisoners. Look no further than R219.
- I hope they put his ass in jail and throw away the key.
Should taken some anger management classes.
- I agree with you r234, if he was in the bathroom this whole thing could totally make sense. You think you hear an intruder, you hide and cower in the bathroom, the person is STILL coming so you fucking empty your clip through the door after warning them. I could see that and that may have happened before. But hunting someone down until you get them in the bathroom and then shooting them 4 times? Nah..Good luck, my legless friend. You are going to need it.
- The latest reports say he tried to revive her. I'm sure that went well. Like the people who ere giving Pat Tillman CPR, despite the fact that his head was gone.
- He tried hitting her with his blade legs, but pieces of her went flying everywhere.
- Women ALWAYS spend too much time in the bathroom.
- I feel bad for having found him hot during the Olympics. Ugh.
- [quote]His brother Carl is one hot fucker too.
Boy, you can sure tell who got the fibulae in that family.
- How can he shoot her 4 times through a door? She could not have stayed upright after the first shot to the head or chest.
I think he will get off. Based on interviews with the public, they don't believe it. He is a hero across the board with all races, genders and ages in SA.
- R221 sounds like he belongs in the Special Olympics.
- The Water Closet Kills...
- Who takes a Glock into the bathroom with them at 3:00a.m.?
- what r234 said
- How does he hit her four times, twice in the head, through a door?
- [quote]How does he hit her four times, twice in the head, through a door?
- r252 It was twice in the head? I heard it was in the head, wrist, chest, and pelvis.
- His uncle said that he was "relying on instinct" when he shot her because athletes rely on their instincts.
- I have theory which might be shit, but here goes. There was a case in S Africa recently where a man shot his daughter through a door thinking she was an intruder.
In this case neighbours of Pistorious allegedly reported that there were shots then silence then more shots.
So here is my theory - could it be possible that he shot Reeva during an argument, then moved her to the bathroom and shot through the door in some mad attempt to make it look like an accident?
I know it sounds crazy.
- I tried to give her CPR but I couldn't find her head!
- r256 That doesn't sound crazy at all if he did do it on purpose. It would have looked more plausible if he put her on the outside and he was on the inside.
- But there would be blood evidence in the area of the house he moved her from r256. But the bathroom door could have been open, he shoots her, then closes the bathroom door and fires more shots through the door. Unless he fired a lot of ammo it is remarkable that he not only hits her but delivers a fatal shot through a door.
- I am having these genuine erotic fantasies about Oscar Pistorius.
I fantasized about him in the nude wearing those blades fucking the shit out of me.
- If indeed he thought she was a burglar, can we assume, since he's such a narcissist, he's over it already? "Stupid bitch, it was her fault. Oh, I look fabulous in the morning light."
- Claimed he thought it was a burglar? He hasn't got a leg to stand on.
- Wow, R262, that joke never gets old!
- "So here is my theory - could it be possible that he shot Reeva during an argument, then moved her to the bathroom and shot through the door in some mad attempt to make it look like an accident?"
It's entirely possible, and a good forensics team will be able to tell us whether or not that's what happened. Blood splatter evidence, position of the body, bullets, and collateral damage, etc. Does anyone know if the police in that area have such resources?
- [quote]Wow, [R262], that joke never gets old!
You wouldn't think so, would you, to look at 'wit' and wisdom...
- So someone finally has won the Claudine Longet Award.
- Now it turns out her skull was bashed in.
- This is not quite cricket.
"Police find bloodied cricket bat at Pistorius home: report...."
- So now the thought is that he shot her in the bedroom in the hip and she ran and hid herself in the bathroom where he delivered the fatal three shots. There must be loads of blood spatter evidence that such a cursory examination would have led the police to file that allegation straightaway.
[quote]Police sources close to the investigation told the independent City Press newspaper that Steenkamp's skull had been "crushed".
[quote]"There was lots of blood on the bat," one source told the paper.
[quote]Police are investigating whether the bat was used to assault Steenkamp, who was shot four times in the early hours of Thursday, or if she used it to defend herself.
[quote]Police have dismissed initial suggestions that Pistorius, 26, could have mistaken Steenkamp for an intruder, and City Press said she was wearing a nightie at the time of the killing.
[quote]"The suspicion is that the first shot, in the bedroom, hit her in the hip. She then ran and hid herself in the toilet... He fire three more shots," a police source told City Press.
- ...what a monster. He deserves death penalty.
- Why would she hide in the toilet? That's disgusting!
- So did he whack her with the cricket bat first and then stage the "burglarly", or did he smash in her head after he'd shot her four times?
Either way, he should have used those bullets on himself.
- She must have been shot first and then he bashed her skull. No way could she have run to the bathroom with her skull bashed. And the family wants to claim not guilty? And not pre- meditated murder? Why do I have a feeling he'll get away with this?
- How chilling
- Wait, I didn't know her head was bashed in. I thought he shot her in the head.
- Hadn't heard about her skull being bashed in. Oscar is a fucking animal!
I can't believe that I cheered for this guy during the Olympics.
- This is the complete opposite of the Notre Dame Football "Hero" story. That story kept getting worse but getting funnier. This story keeps getting more and more horrible all the time. Dimwit vs. Psychopath.
- [quote]And the family wants to claim not guilty? And not pre- meditated murder? Why do I have a feeling he'll get away with this?
He could be not guilty if it's proven that he did it in self defense. Maybe the woman came at him with something.
- She was abusive.
He had to defend himself.
- The press and the legal profession will spin this like a laundry spincycle.
He'll get off with it, they'll say he was drunk or high, had no clue what he was doing. SA will not want their national hero being a murderer, they'll be trying to work out what he could get away with as we type.
I'm talking from experience of the British press who were 'reporting' on a subject I had first hand experience of and knew the press were lying.
- He thought he had a burglar in his bathroom? So he shot into the bathroom through a closed door?
Oh, yea. That makes total sense.
- [quote] SA will not want their national hero being a murderer, they'll be trying to work out what he could get away with as we type.
Just like the same way America didn't want their national hero OJ Simpson to be a murderer? Don't you think getting him off would make SA look worse and even delusional? It's not like the SA citizens are on his side. They think he's a murderer too. No one is in denial.
- [quote]Now it turns out her skull was bashed in.
Omg, how barbaric!
- Police have dismissed initial suggestions that Pistorius, 26, could have mistaken Steenkamp for an intruder.
City Press said she was wearing a nightie (!) at the time of the killing.
"The suspicion is that the first shot, in the bedroom, hit her in the hip. She then ran and hid herself in the toilet... He fire three more shots," a police source told City Press.
- [quote]He tried hitting her with his blade legs, but pieces of her went flying everywhere.
What an animal.
- Sorry to say but Oscar is the new OJ
No way is a jury going to convict him.
- [quote]...what a monster. He deserves death penalty.
There is no death penalty in South Africa.
- Why do men so often murder their girlfriends/wives? If you don't like them, split up.
- R288 it is about control
If they can't have them, they don't want anyone else to.
- How did she fit in the toilet?
- Many men think of women as objects and their possessions, and not as equals.
- How did he have so much rage in that little body of his?
- [quote] How did he have so much rage in that little body of his?
When you lose both of your legs, it does a number on your psyche
- r286 They don' have jury trials (or so I read). The judge decides guilt.
- [quote] City Press said she was wearing a nightie (!) at the time of the killing.
I don't think it matters what she was wearing. If he could see her or even clearly see her outline then he knew it wasn't a burglar.
Something happened that set him off - maybe she was leaving him for a non-disabled bloke. Or something went wrong during sex. Poor girl. There had to have been signs he was troubled before this. Women need to trust their instincts and run the other way as soon as any signs appear. Instead they try to explain away the signs instead of facing the truth about these creeps.
- The police seem to be very keen on amassing evidence for a murder conviction.
- Anyone know what the argument was about? Maybe that can determine whether he's guilty or not guilty.
- I think they have some very damaging evidence against him. In the US it would he would be unlikely to get bail. Will be curious to see if they let him out of prison. The world will get to see a slice of the South African justice system at work.
- They just aired the dead girlfriend's reality show.
- The girlfriend's father said he forgives Pistorius. He said Pistorius must be going through something really difficult now and the father has no hatred in his heart for Pistorius.
- r293 I might be able to buy that if he had lost his legs at the age of 19 in a car accident or something, but that wasn't the case, he lost his legs before he could even walk so he doesn't get to use that excuse. Fuck him, he seems like a whiny little bitch who is used to getting his way because he is cute and is "disabled". But are you really disabled if you move better than an able bodied person and have grown up with that?
- I can't believe her father said that. There is no exuse for killing another human being. It's like he has this immunity because of his celebrity status.
- No father wants to believe that the man they invited into their family goes and murders their daughter.
- "I don't think it matters what she was wearing. "
If she was wearing a nightie, it implies that she was IN the house, sleeping or engaging with Pistorius, and definitely not breaking into the house to surprise him.
Not that anyone with an IQ over 40 is going to playfully break into the house of a temptermental man with a lot of guns, but breaking in with a nightie on is even more unlikely.
- [quote] No father wants to believe that the man they invited into their family goes and murders their daughter.
They didn't invite him into their family. The parents have never met him. The mother has spoken to him on the phone though
- [quote] Just like the same way America didn't want their national hero OJ Simpson to be a murderer?
I don't know where you were or where you have been, but white America thought he was guilty from day one. Black America knew he was a killer, but didn't want him to be convicted and cheered when he was found not guilty
You can speak to almost anyone in America (white or black) about Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman's murders and no one will say oj was innocent. They will all say he got off on murder charges or he got away with it. 99.9% of Americans do NOT think someone else committed those murders.
- And after he shot her, instead of calling for help he called his friend and starting crying like a bitch, "My baba, I’ve killed my baba, I've killed my baba"
- Reeva spoke frequently on the empowerment of women.
New theory I read, as to sequence:
Argument. She gets shot in hip, scrambles to hide in bathroom.
She sits on toilet doubled up in pain, holding her head with her hand, which explains the bullet in her hand as Oscar fires three more times (he can probably figure the trajectory from her cries).
My addition: Oscar drags the wounded Reeva out not to give CPR (please!), but to "account for" the blood already outside the bathroom.
I think it will be determined that Reeva was not shot in her head (initial assumption), but that, because the bullets hadn't killed her, Oscar, still in the grip of rage, bashed her head in with his cricket bat.
IOW: Pistorius will be convicted of murder in the same way Capt. Jeffrey MacDonald was: the blood and wound patterns, plus the complete implausibility of an "intruder."
- OK, so he bashed her in the head to make sure that she was dead. Definitely premeditated.
- "The suspicion is that the first shot, in the bedroom, hit her in the hip."
What an idiot! Doesn't he watch Law and Order? How long did he think his fake "I though she was an intruder story" would hold? They obviously have forensic evidence in the bedroom.
- Again, he bashed her head in with a cricket bat he left at the scene? What even both with the ridiculous intruder story if you're not going to clean up first? Amateur.
- The story about moving her out of the bathroom to the bedroom to give her CPR ... way to go, you've tainted the crime scene. Seems like if you were that concerned you'd give CPR wherever the victim was. Oh, and not call your buddy before you call authorities.
Yeah, you ain't kidding.
- [quote]he bashed her in the head to make sure that she was dead
Why did he do it?
Valentine's Day is fraught with emotional expectations. Who knows what they might have argued about---his thoughtlessness; her next-day speaking engagement on female empowerment; her TV stint and potential fame; ex-lovers; their future together or not; etc.
I think the head-bashing was the coup de grace a la JonBenet---in for a penny, in for a pound.
Risk all on a story only the survivor can tell.
The rest---sobbing to a friend prior to calling for help; crying in the court-room---is acting.
Oscar Pistorius is no stranger to the camera.
- R304, you completely missed my point.
No one is disputing she was in the house. As far as I have read he never said he was alone in the house. But that doesn't even seem to be his defense.
She may have been in a different section of the house or a different floor. Maybe they had separate rooms or used separate bathrooms. So maybe he didn't expect her to be where he heard someone. Seemingly his only defense can be that he didn't realize it was her because he didn't see her - either he posits it was dark or she was "around the corner" or behind a door. If he saw her at all then he knew it wasn't a burglar. So what difference does it make what she had on?
In any event, not looking good. But, yea, they will find some way to make this manslaughter or less than the worst and he will get off easy. Not even saying the goverment will do this or fix this at all - he may have a great attorney who crafts a great defense that a jury buys.
- [quote]Not that anyone with an IQ over 40 is going to playfully break into the house of a temptermental man with a lot of guns, but breaking in with a nightie on is even more unlikely.
Well, she was a model.
- [quote]Well, she was a model.
With a law degree.
- "My baba"? is that South African slang for girlfriend?
In American slang, it's toddler speak for "my bottle"
- It means "my father".
- What's on his iPod?
- "My father"? That wouldn't make sense to tell his friend that when he shot his woman.
- You have to wonder how much crap this guy has gotten away with all of his life. His family have probably enabled a lot of bad behavior and come to his rescue when in trouble as they are now. He was a golden boy, a prince.
- His brother's facial expressions in the courtroom photos almost look like he's pleased about the whole thing.
- Oh fuck off, R301. What do you know about amputation, disability or birth defects? You don't get to make up any rules.
It amazes me how little people know about disability. Disability is FOREVER. Not just on the day you get both your legs amputated. It never changes, it never gets any easier. You are in constant pain and vulnerable to infection and wounds.
You people actually think prosthetic devices are COMFORTABLE? You have no idea. Imagine having what's left of your limbs impacting with hard plastic, stuffed into a hot, sweaty socket all day, jamming against your skin with every impact of the pavement. Imagine the smell, the constant cleaning of both your limb and prosthetic.
I often get the impression that there are people who think wearing a prosthetic is just like having a leg. It's not. It might increase your mobility if you can stand the pain but otherwise it's a constant reminder that you've lost your limb.
You can't "buy" that. Well who the fuck are you?
- Why are you cretins still going on about the victim being mistaken for a burglar? That was discredited last Thursday, just hours after this story went public. Why are you still going on about it? It is not a factor.
- Back in 1981 when I was working at a ski resort as a maid, my supervisor tried to kill me. She was fun and easy going and then one day I said something that pissed her off. As I was walking away to get back to work, she charged and tackled me into a wall and then threw me onto a bed in the room I was cleaning.
As I was lying on my back trying to fight her off while she was strangling me, our eyes met--only she didn't even see me and her eyes were literally rimmed in red. I'll never forget that.
Luckily my co-worker heard me trying to scream and ran into the room and screamed at our supervisor to let me go. Immediately she let go and dropped her head down and just stood there breathing heavily. It's like her trance had been broken and she was back in reality.
I'm thinking this guy was in the same mindset when he killed his girlfriend and is probably in shock after he "came to" so to speak.
- I think that trance is called being possessed by the devil, R327. Very dangerous. Do you think this is the case here with Pistorius? Was he ever into any VooDoo or black magic?
- He doesn't need voodoo, black magic, or a demon to posess him.
He's got the strength of ten thousand steroids!
- R327, did anything happen to your supervisor?
- I've had those kind of rage black outs before but I've gotten close to actually killing anyone. I've broken shit and said horrible, horrible things and held entire rooms of people hostage basically. It's terrifying and humiliating. I'm not excusing him at all but I do wonder aside from a constant diet of tranquilizers what can be done to stop his kind of behavior, if maybe part of the brain could be cut or something.
- ^ never close to
- She was fired R330.
- Has anyone seen the hit show Do No Harm? Maybe it's kinda like that. Another evil personality takes over. If that's the case, then I think he could be found not guilty and they can charge this other person.
- Read online that the police aren't sure whose blood is on the cricket bat.
- Early Monday news reports his sponsors Oakley and Nike are standing by him. Poor Tiger Woods fucks a few girls and they drop him. Pistorius only killed one.
- [quote]You have to wonder how much crap this guy has gotten away with all of his life. His family have probably enabled a lot of bad behavior and come to his rescue when in trouble as they are now. He was a golden boy, a prince.
This I what I'm thinking. Especially as his family announced they don't believe it isn't even murder. WTF? How do you explain such a heinous act?
He has a history of recklessness. He probably got caught up in the adulation and hero worship and doesnt seem accountable for his actions. He only knew her a few months and maybe this was the first girl who told him no and he cracked.
- A few, R336? Try over 100. Tiger's behavior was revolting and he hasn't suffered anywhere near as much as he should have.
- Apparently, it was the neighbors who called the police. Oscar called his family and they came to the house... But they didn't notify the police.. If it hadn't been for the neighbors calling the police, I get the feeling his family would have helped dumped the body in a lake somewhere..
- Of course they would have. Do you expect them to turn in their own son? Of course not.
- I guess you have no conscience then.
- [quote]Of course they would have. Do you expect them to turn in their own son? Of course not.
I suppose they're no different than a lot of other families. Scott Peterson's parents still think he is innocent, too.
- [quote]He's got the strength of ten thousand steroids!
I was thinking the same thing, more like roid rage.
- [quote]Early Monday news reports his sponsors Oakley and Nike are standing by him. Poor Tiger Woods fucks a few girls and they drop him. Pistorius only killed one.
People will not buy their products, if they support a killer.
- My 'baba' - translates as 'my baby'. Baba is baby in Afrikaans.
South Africa does not have a jury system. However, only defense attorneys can be appointed judges. Prosecutors cannot hold the post. This is part of a longstanding Roman Dutch law tradition that says the system should favour the accused.
- Just shows how amoral NIKE is, R344
- There is most definitely a racial component to that story, R344.
- This whole thing is getting more and more cynical by the minute, and it is pretty obvious the police are leaking information. It is like both sides trying to play the media circus. So far the prosecution case appears to be winning.
The Pistorious family have a pr guy helping them who used to work for the sun newspaper, which i just find sickening. How can anyone live with themselves trying to spin the story of a young woman being killed/murdered.
If it is true that he and his family didn't call emergency services that is unforgivable. She could maybe have been saved if she had the right treatment at the right time. Although the reports do say that the neighbour who called the police was in the house at the time, so presumably he/she didn't think that they were in the company of a homicidal maniac.
I'm also not entirely convinced with the neigbours hearing an argument - according to the journalist from the NY Times who interviewed him his house is not exactly close to others and he was surprised that neighbours could hear anything. A gun shot maybe, but raised voices a bit more questionable.
- Any DLer's here from South Africa?
- The news just said Pistorius is now going to take a break from his career to deal with this. He has cancelled all races and public appearances.
- Reports now say banned steroids were found in his home.
- Well it does seem like dear dad can't shut his fucking mouth about his 'innocent' boy. Apparently now people are tearing down a 'national icon' because it's a fun sport, according to him. Goddammit doodlebrain, your son is at best a huge loser idiot.
Why they can't just keep quiet respectfully is beyond me. Shows that dad is just as egotistical, and Oscar got that shit from somewhere.
- You rang, R349?
- Why is there a racial element, r344? R336 has it wrong, anyway. First of all, Nike never dropped Tiger Woods - he recently shot a new commercial for them and is on the Nike Golf Team. It took Nike too long to drop Lance Armstrong, though. And, it's not as though race meant sponsors weren't supportive of Tiger - he was earning so much from sponsorships he became the first sportsperson to make 1 billion dollars. In fact, Nike stuck by Woods even when they were being hugely criticised for it and put out that stupid "ironic" ad with his dead father's voice. Woods was still the world's highest-paid sportsman until last year (he's now number 3, and that's certainly not because of his tournament winnings).
Oakley, according to Tyler Hamilton, knew all about Lance Armstrong's doping from years back.
Pistorius' sponsors will probably have to stick by him for contractual reasons (and for the tiny issue of innocent until proven guilty) until his trial or the official evidence against him becomes too overwhelming.
- Upthread someone posited that it was a matter of time before steroids were found. And they have been. And that will be the defense. And that will be the end of the medals.
Also--he called his parents? Mommy help me? How old is this guy?
- Maybe they weren't "raised voices" but blood curdling screams and shouts.
The screams of the Manson murders were heard all throughout Benedict Canyon.
Have you seen photos of the compound? Those houses are close.
Also, I believe it's late summer in SA so perhaps windows were open in both his house and the neighbors.
- Steroids? The disgusting murderous fuck. I hope they take away his medals.
- Also white people are usually super quiet, I live in a busy and noisy neighbourhood, but when Steven didn't pay his child support four houses down, his wife let the whole street know. Barry two houses up had a drunken fight with his brother. And I've called the cops twice from hearing fights. I hear my black neighbours a lot, singing and having church and talking and kids playing.
I only hear white people when they are drunk and fighting.
- No sure about under south african law, but drugs of any kind are not a defense to the malicious/guilty mind required for murder.
Everyone thinks she got shot first. But maybe he hit her with the cricket bat first. She managed to get in bathroom and lock the door. Then he fires through it to finish her off.
I bet most of the screaming was her calling for help. Really such a sad thing.
I just hope the poor girl gets justice. I also hope maybe like the sandyhook shooting, south africans begin to evaluate the culture of guns and violance. Not to mention the clear racial divide that still exists there.
- R327's story actually triggered a nightmare with similar circumstances. Except the attacker was a male and he tried to snap and twist my neck. I can't imagine what that poor woman was experiencing in her last moments. I managed to wake up.
- Killing is wrong except if you are a sports star or a celebrity.
- [quote]Apparently, it was the neighbors who called the police. Oscar called his family and they came to the house... But they didn't notify the police.. If it hadn't been for the neighbors calling the police, I get the feeling his family would have helped dumped the body in a lake somewhere.
And his family immediately called his PR people who floated the story about an intruder to the media implying that it came from the police. The police were mightily pissed off about it and denied it came from them before the morning was out.
The PR spin literally began before her body was cold. That is cynical.
- They probably called Saul Goodman for advice, r352!
- Steroids were reportedly found at the home of Oscar Pistorius, the double-amputee Olympic sprinter accused of fatally shooting his girlfriend, reality television star and model Reeva Steenkamp. Pistorius, 26, is expected to appear in court on Tuesday on murder charges. Steenkamp, 29, was found dead from several gunshot wounds early Friday at Pistorius’s home. Since then, police reportedly have found a bloody cricket bat at the house, suggesting there had been a struggle. Sources told the South African City Press that Steenkamp’s skull was “crushed,” and they are examining the bat to see if the blood came from a blow to the back of her head. Police are also reportedly testing Pistorius for steroids.
- [quote]Just shows how amoral NIKE is
We could have told you that.
- R365 - Every child has the right to help support their family and your tiny little fingers do the best tight stitches.
- [quote] South Africa does not have a jury system. However, only defense attorneys can be appointed judges. Prosecutors cannot hold the post.
[quote] How can anyone live with themselves trying to spin the story of a young woman being killed/murdered.
Both sides are doing this.
The police are leaking and the defense is setting out its defense early. THIS is when cases can be won or lost. Usually it's the government that has the means to do this best. They have great access to the media. They selectively release information - sometimes "evidence" that has not been properly vetted or tested yet or even info that they know can easily be disproved - and it is the government who has the longstanding relationship witrh the local media - lazy media that is happy to accept press releases from the prosecutors and print as if they were investigated and reported stories.
Rarely does the defense get a chance to get their story out there before the court issues a gag order. I have seen this all too often. And yet those first impressions are what stick in the public's mind. In countries with jury trials, a predisposed jury pool can make all the difference in receiving a fair trial. I'd argue that despite their lofty opinions of themselves that there can be a similar effect on judges.
South Africa allows for negating the required voluntariness (a required element of proof)through a defense of intoxication. I don't know if it can completely defeat a charge or just knock it down a degree, e.g. from first degree murder to second degree or even to manslaughter.
I can see a guily plea to manslaughter with a favorable sentence. I don't think this guy has any priors.
- [quote}His brother's facial expressions in the courtroom photos almost look like he's pleased about the whole thing.
I 100% agree
- I think the defense will use "roid rage" defense and get it down to manslaughter and he'll get the lightest sentence possible. But he is so over.
- It now seems that Pistorius was in a jealous rage because Steenkamp was in contact with a rugby player. They had been tweeting each other in the days leading up to the murder. Steenkamps Ipad was found near the bed. Perhaps she received a message from the rugby player and Pistorius read it while she slept beside him. They could have been fighting about this guy all night.
I heard a SA journo this morning mewing about how the most likely scenario was that Pistorius used the bat to break down the door! I have a horrible feeling that this will be OJ all over again.
- Sorry, I'm not familiar with Twitter. Is it possible to sent private tweets or is everything that's send seen under one's account?
- So he's to be in court Tues. morning, right? Will the prosecution present the evidence leading to a premeditated murder charge publicly or will hearing be closed?
- The brothers smiling in pictures is really bizarre
- The minute this story broke I said to friends they'll find a way to charge for diminished responsibility man slaughter.
The law info in this thread is very informative, thanks law anons.
- [quote]Second, multiple reports citing police sources claim that Steenkamp was shot through a bathroom door.
You. Have. Been. In. There. Too. Fucking. Long.
- I wonder if the gunned-up security freak had a panic room?
- Uh-oh. This just keeps on getting worse and worse for Oscar. It has been revealed that his car was in his driveay and the engine RUNNING as neighbors and paramedics arrived. He may have been trying to escape but not had enough time. This could have been another chase, ala OJ's Bronco, through the streets of Peoria, South Africa.
- They also reported "screaming" and "yelling"!
- So, was Oscar Pistorius using steroids when he was competing in the Olympics?
- [quote]Perhaps she received a message from the rugby player and Pistorius read it while she slept beside him.
Were Pistorius and his girlfriend already sleeping together?
- [quote]Sorry, I'm not familiar with Twitter. Is it possible to sent private tweets or is everything that's send seen under one's account?
You can make your account private, and only people who follow you can see your tweets. And if you want to talk to someone privately, and you both follow each other, you can send what's called a Direct Message--or a DM.
- Can someone post a link to the pictures you are talking about with his smiling brothers? I've looked for courtroom pics but all I keep seeing are the ones of Oscar crying and his father and sister.
- [quote]has been revealed that his car was in his driveay and the engine RUNNING as neighbors and paramedics arrived. He may have been trying to escape but not had enough time
That looks damning....
Thank God for the neighbors!
- In a way it makes a tragic kind of sense... Given that he hadn't any legs , and she was unarmed.
- Brother pic
- Another brother pic
- Smirking brother
- Delight in the brother's eyes
- How many drag show appearances is Oscar's brother missing during this fiasco?
- Having to listen to a South African accent every night on the news is excruciating. And leads me to admire Leonardo DiCaprio's work in Blood Diamond even more.
- She probably wanted out of the relationship, and he couldn't take it. Big Baby!
- [quote]You can make your account private, and only people who follow you can see your tweets. And if you want to talk to someone privately, and you both follow each other, you can send what's called a Direct Message--or a DM.
But if your psycho bf pics up your phone and automatically logs in to your account, he can see all your tweets, just like email.
- I think you guys are reading too much into the brother's facial expressions and gestures, but I can't help but think he's strained by yet another family exercise of preserving their golden boy and prince whose only claim to anything was the misfortune of having been born with a genetic anomaly.
His condition garnered fame and probably preference in the family despite what might be considered fair treatment among siblings in civilized society. I'm sure the sibs were diligent in whatever they did, but never quite measured up and probably received negative consequences for their own bad behavior while Prince Oscar's was excused and regaled within the family despite having a bad temper, drinking excessively and suffering tremendous physical trauma as a consequence.
Finally, the chickens came home to roost?
- "I think you guys are reading too much..." and then you write a novel out of thin air.
- A theory is a "novel" or "fact?" Conjecture, boy. Don't you get it? It's what we do on DL, ya know. The brother's facial expressions were pretty neutral, I thought. From the above descriptions, I thought that he'd look like he was smirking or gloating, but I didn't see that. Sorry.
A theory about family dynamics is a theory about family dynamics. I heartily apologize if that wasn't clear enough for you, R394. Perhaps you could explain what I might have done to make the point more evident?
- It's pretty obviuous you are an armchair psychologist with issues. Anyways continue theorizing, Maybe you will reach the conclusion that the killer was in fact the brother!
- [quote]It's pretty obviuous you are an armchair psychologist with issues.
Holy fucking Christ, eejit! Do you not realize this is DataLounge?
- I was thinking the same thing r390.
- Maybe the car was running because they wanted to drive her to hospital? If the ambulance hadn't arrived in time Ha, I had to cross-post that DL thread in (hospital vs. in THE hospital).
Yup! That must be it! He was trying to drive her to the hospital after CPR did not revive her!
It was just an accident and Oscar was just trying to do everything he could to save her life!
- Drive her to the hospital? He probably wanted to dump the body in the veldt.
- Anybody else think that from certain angles he kind of looks similar to Guy Pierce?
- Anybody else think he'll kill himself before this even goes to trial?
- "Roid rage?" Oh. OK.
- Does South African law make a distinction between premeditated and unpremeditated murders? If it was an unpremedicated case of ROID RAGE, would he get a lesser sentence?
- Roses are red
Violets are glorious
Never creep up on
- Change it to "orchids are glorious" and you've got something there, R406.
- This is his new statement:
"Briefly, in a statement to the court, Oscar Pistorius has set out his version of events on the night Reeva Steenkamp died.
He said they went to bed and fell asleep.
He woke to close a sliding door and get a fan and went out on to the balcony, he said.
At that point he heard a noise in the bathroom and felt a "sense of terror" rush through him.
He was scared and didn't switch on the light, he said.
He was acutely aware of violent crime and had received death threats in the past, and had been a victim of crime in the past, he said. For the that reason he kept a 9mm pistol under the bed.
He said he got his gun and moved towards the bathroom, and screamed at the "intruder" to get out of the house and for Steenkamp to call the police. He thought she was still in bed.
He did not have his prosthetic legs on, and said he felt vulnerable for both himself and Steenkamp. For that reason, he said, he fired through the bathroom door.
He then saw that Steenkamp was not in bed, he said. That was when he realised she could have been in the bathroom, he said. The bathroom door was locked.
He said he went to the balcony and called for help, and then put his legs on.
He said he opened the toilet door by smashing it with a cricket bat. Steenkamp was alive inside, slumped over, he said. He took her to the bathroom, called paramedics and tried to carry her downstairs to get help, he said."
- If that isn't the most bullshit defense argument.
So, he "heard a noise" and started shooting, even though there really wasn't anything to indicate there was actually an intruder. The poor woman got up to pee in the middle of the night and he shoots her to death (if his story is to be believed).
- Dear god he closes his OPEN sliding door and then thinks there are intruders? Why the fuck was his stupid sliding door open?
- Also, according to the Guardian link at r408:
"The prosecution is claiming that even if Pistorius did think she was a burglar, his shooting her through the bathroom door still constitutes premeditated murder."
- If he story is to believed, one would have to ask why she locked the bathroom door.
- They say she was sitting on the sink when she was shot. Who goes in the bathroom to sit on the sink -- unless she was afraid and hiding from him.
The police version of what happened sounds much more believable.
- That Guardian link at r408 is very interesting. There's been a lot of misinformation on this thread; she was not shot in the bedroom first; there is no mention of blood on the cricket bat; he did call the ambulance.
Not that any of that precludes that he killed her in a roid rage.
- Statement Analysis did an analysis of his words and what his words really mean:
- With that story, he'll never be convicted. The prosecution is too zealous. It's over before it even began.
- That doesn't account for her head being bashed in. (If it was- it's hard to tell which info is legit)
R380, are you for real?
- Hunky South African rugby player once dated Oscar Pistorius’ slain girlfriend and stayed Twitter friends
- r402 Yes! I didn't write it because I thought I would look like an idiot but yes, to me he looks like a not as hot Guy.
- I see the resemblance, but I think he's hotter than Guy. Better nipples, at least.
- r420 I don't know, Guy is pretty fucking hot, did you see the new Mildred Pierce? Mmm..
- Guy is automatically hotter, on account of not being a FUCKING MURDERER.
- Agree about Guy Pearce. The rugby player's resemblance to Pistorius is pretty striking.
- Thank you, Jesus. Of course you are right and sometimes we need you to come down and tell us these things. Guy is hotter.
- No probs, my child.
- The locked door can be easily explained away as it was early in the relationship and she didn't want him walking in on her while she used the restroom.
The prosecutor and police have been leaking much more misinformation then Pistorius' people. She was not on the counter, her head was not bashed in with a bat, she was not shot in the bedroom. The police should not have discounted him saying that he thought there was an intruder because that is his defense and that's what he says he believed happened. They can talk about that on the stand. They need to provide evidence, not just say "that's not what happened." They have yet to prove that in any fundamental way, and in fact the evidence presented so far backs up his story.
There has been a lot of police and prosecutorial mistakes. I'm not saying that he's innocent, I am saying that with his celebrity and the way that this has been mishandled from the start means he will get off.
- It's not hard to understand where the misinformation comes from. This article has a graphic (Inside Oscar's House of Horrors) of Pistorius shooting Steenkamp in the bedroom.
- [quote]They need to provide evidence, not just say "that's not what happened." They have yet to prove that in any fundamental way, and in fact the evidence presented so far backs up his story.
That was not the purpose of today's court proceedings, was it? It was the first phase to determine whether he should get bail.
And the evidence the prosecutor presented today doesn't "back up his story." It merely fits the story as it does the prosecutor's story. There's much more evidence to be presented yet.
- Well, now we have a resident Pistorius defender in the house @r426.
Pistorius' own statement in court is half-baked.
- [quote]It amazes me how little people know about disability. Disability is FOREVER. Not just on the day you get both your legs amputated. It never changes, it never gets any easier.
Bitch PLEASE, R325. There is "disabled" and there is DISABLED. Miss Oscar is the former.
His entire fortune is based on his being disabled.
I thought the whole point of his competing in the Olympics was to show how LITTLE BEING DISABLED MATTERED. It seems he likes to play the disability card when it suits him.
and PS, he is more able-bodied than 99.9999% of the population. I'm not disabled and you're not going to see my ass in the Olympics any time soon.
He's also very good looking. Don't think that hasn't played a huge part in making him a smug asshole.
I would seriously consider having both my lower legs amputated to get the kind of fortune he has. A LOT of people would.
His disability has given him a life few could attain and instead of being an inspiration he's an asshole murderer who abuses drugs. You're wasting good intentions on this loser.
- r430 Thank you! And fuck you, r325, I am the one you got all condescending and dickish with. Yes, I have dealt with disabled people and yes, everything r430 said is correct. He made a career of his disability and was rich and fucking a model so his life wasn't too shitty. None of that stuff would have happened if he had been able bodied and yeah, it does make a difference that he has been this way hi whole life and wasn't recently injured. He grew up like that and doesn't know any different. So go fuck yourself with your attitude.
- Bigger smirk on the brother
- Oh and r325 what I know about birth defects, my brother was born with Cystic Fibrosis and died of it ten years ago, so yeah, I know a little about maladies. Sorry you have an amputation but I bet it won't kill you. Oh and I'm still not buying his story.
You're in a bedroom with another person, you get up, close the balcony door, turn around and see the bathroom door closed---and INSTEAD OF ASSUMING IT'S THE PERSON WHO IS SHARING THE BEDROOM WITH YOU, YOU ASSUME IT'S AN INTRUDER?!
Why did Oscar not turn to wake Reeva and tell her to leave the danger zone?
Oscar was in fear of break-ins but he happened to leave a balcony door open? No; he added that "balcony door" LIE to try to convince the Magistrate 1.) that there was a plausible reason for an intruder's being in that room and no other; and 2.) that he had a plausible reason for being unaware that it was Reeva in the bathroom.
LIES UPON LIES.
- Brother, looking serene
- Brother, with campy eyebrows
- So not only is he a murderer but a cheat who used PEDs?
- Who are the black women in the gallery who are wearing the matching green outfits? The family maids?
- [quote]So not only is he a murderer but a cheat who used PEDs?
No, that was a reporter's transcription error. He used PEZ.
- Bullshit, r430.
Not enough money in the world to give up half a limb.
- I don't know r440..I remember on the RHONY Ramona had said to the resident whiner Aviva that many people would be willing to lose a foot to be worth 50 million.
- "Not enough money in the world to give up half a limb"
You do know that there are people out there who would happily have a limb chopped to gratify a sexual fetish (Apotemnophilia)?
They may be suffering from extreme examples of BIID (or might just be loonies), but you will admit that $50m sounds like a steal...
- r442 you know about apotamenophilia and biid too? One of the first things I looked up on DL was biid but I didn't see any threads about it. Can you start one? Oh and I am not a biid sufferer but am fascinated by it. I check out the transabled site all the time.
- How did he 'get up' out of bed, close the door and fire into the bathroom *before* he put on his prosthetic legs? Was he waddling around on his hands?
- "The locked door can be easily explained away as it was early in the relationship and she didn't want him walking in on her while she used the restroom."
WTF? They were sleeping together! He saw everything already.
duh! he did it, on purpose!
- For you R440. For you, there isn't enough money.
- So did he put the gun in his mouth and arm his way over to the bathroom door or does he waddle without the prosthetics?? He must have shot pretty low.
- I don't know r448 but I do love how they mention him putting his legs on. You know, just in case you didn't know he was legless. How can you think a legless guy would murder someone?
- He walks on his stumps. Like a lot of double amputees are able to.
- r446, once you let him see you take a dump, the romance is over.
Not that I buy his story but just sayin'
- Does long-term (or even short-term) steroid abuse cause paranoia or just aggression?
- You don't need to lock the door to be private.
- Some bleeding heart upthread mentioned the discomfort of limb amputation and the accompanying awful smell when the stump is wrapped in a sock for the artificial leg. Did I miss something or is this stump open and oozing and full of pus making it smell so bad? I was under the impression it was a closed wound and simply removing a sock that had been on it would not smell any worse than any other person simply removing a sock from a foot. Not to say that being without a limb is not a challenge, but let's not just make shit up.
- Foot lovers would be disappointed, R454.
- This thread is making me HORNY as HELL!
- "So not only is he a murderer but a cheat who used PEDs?"
Oh honey, they all do. That's one of the reasons I've stopped giving a shit about the Olympics, the only way to win in the strength sports is to use these dangerous drugs.
- I love the horny as hell troll.
- [quote]I do love how they mention him putting his legs on. You know, just in case you didn't know he was legless.
It's mentioned in relation to premeditation. Every little detail or action that he took leading up to killing her supports the idea that it was deliberate. He didn't just smack her and cause her to fall over and hit her head and die. Every second it took to strap on those prosthetic legs was a choice to proceed or not. All that he did in preparation was part of a plan, however short, to attack her.
Sounds like he bashed her in the head with the cricket bat. She ran into the bathroom to take refuge. Then he shot through the door, which finished her off. Hope he never gets out.
- [quote] Hope he never gets out.
Hope he never gets out if the evidence bears out this theory and he is convicted.
There I fixed it for you.
- The full statement of events, from the guardian, his words of what happened made me think for a split second that maybe it was a tragic accident. Which goes to show how clever brain fucking press shit can make a person question what they initially believed.
- I manage to live 80, 81 years. I've had pneumonia, two operations, a stroke. One morning I'll belch and Stable Mable here will blow my head off.
- His statement in court today sounds plausible..
- The way men get treated in this country is beyond belief. He needs to grow a pair and tell them where they can stick their charges.
- I just read his statement. Strange that he had to go back to his bed to grab his gun out from underneath it, but he didn't reach over in the darkness to feel for Reeva and shake her awake or take a moment to discuss his suspicion of intruders with her and get her confirmation that she'd call 911.
There are lots of statements in his story that will be easy for the police to check out, like how he claims to have gone back out on the balcony and screamed for help (did the neighbors hear these pleas?), how he shot through the toilet door without first putting his legs on (angle of bullet hole entry should confirm or deny this claim), and how he couldn't see whether Reeva was in bed or not because the bedroom was "pitch black" (how light-proof does the room really get at night?).
On another note, should roid rage really be a reason to receive a lighter sentence these days? It has been over a decade since all the ball players and WWF wrestlers had roid rage issues plastered all over the media.... Anyone who knowingly juices today would be well aware of the side effects they're likely to experience so why shouldn't they be held accountable for their rage problems?
- "The way men get treated in this country is beyond belief."
Outrage!! I don't know why men who murder women get treated so badly!
- Shots: Interesting that he didn't figure "the intruder" could just as easily shoot HIM through that bathroom door.
Legs: At what point did Oscar put his prostheses on? After getting his gun? Before? After he saw it was Reeva? Can he demonstrate for the Magitrate how he carried her? I'd grill him on that one issue.
Lights: Why did he not turn on a light when he allegedly went to close the balcony door? Or when he went to the bathroom door? Did he think a light would awaken Reeva while gunshots would not?
Noise: Was Reeva known to be such a deep sleeper that she would not have felt or heard Oscar's movements?
Crime scene: Does Oscar have a theory as to why "the intruder" would have entered the bathroom instead of leaving the room to search the house for whatever intruders take?
Does Oscar have a theory as to why "the intruder" would have entered the bathroom instead of just killing him and Reeva first?
- R467's post is a good example of why this will be hard for Oscar to escape. I would add the presence of a possible trigger in the Twitter conservation between Reeva and her 'alpha male' rugby player ex Francois Hougaard.
- Francois Hougaard looks like a cross between Sidney Crosby and Oscar... She liked the roided ones, didn't she?
- [italic]The athlete woke up in the early hours of 14 February, he added, and went on to the balcony to bring a fan in and close the sliding doors, blinds and curtains.
"I heard a noise and realised that someone was in the bathroom. I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps.
"I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on. I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed."
He went on: "I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realised that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom. I heard movement inside the toilet. The toilet is inside the bathroom and has a separate door.
"It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window. As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable, I knew I had to protect Reeva and myself.
"I believe that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger. I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps.
"I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding.
"When I reached the bed, I realised Reeva was not in the bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting on to the balcony and screamed for help."
Pistorius put on his prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open, he said. He went back to the bedroom to grab his cricket bat and smash open the toilet door. One or more panels broke off and he found the key so he was able to open it.
"Reeva was slumped over but alive. I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom."
Pistorius said he called an administrator of his estate and asked him to phone an ambulance and also called a private hospital. He carried Steenkamp, 29, downstairs so she could be taken to hospital. "Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms."[/italic]
- he hears noise in the bathroom/toilet
- he yells something to his gf (if he had done that, wouldn't she have answered from the inside of the toilet?)
- he notices that bathroom window is open (he doesn't say if the window had been closed when he went to bed)
- he is somehow locked out of bedroom and panics
- he starts shooting
- he retreats to the bedroom, which is now unlocked
- he realizes his gf has been silent all this time, so he thinks he may have shot her
- he still doesn't turn on the bedroom lights
- he checks the empty bed
- he yells for help
- he breaks down toilet door
- Her injuries...awful...could the crushed skull have been caused by the bullet? I think someone upthread posted this, too, but how coherent could someone be to run to a bathroom and lock if struck in the head? Or, did he strike her while in the bathroom, then cover it up w/ shots? This is just too bizarre. Why wouldn't he just call out her name to see if it was she who was in the bathroom? Why was he so paranoid? Has he ever had an intruder? Does he feel vulnerable because of his legs? I don't get the over-reaction. Also, how dare his track coach state he looks forward to O.P. getting back on the track again! He violently, recklessly KILLED a human being. SMH
- The thought of him monkeying around the house on his stumps in a rage waving a gun like some sort of chimpanzee or Dorf on Golf is horrifying.
- I live with my boyfriend and I actually have had that happen - you get up in the middle of the night while he was asleep, go pee or get water or something, and then suddenly scream because you hear a noise when you don't expect it.
Your mind thinks he's asleep in the bed but if he quietly got up while you're up, it can send you into a brief panic when, say, you hear someone where you dont expect them.
I understand the vulnerability point too - I think not having my glasses on can make it worse.
Now, I can't imagine SHOOTING A FUCKING GUN into the bathroom door, but I can see going into a panic when you sense someone in the bathroom for a second. He has tweeted about his washing machine sending him running for his gun before, as well.
I just feel like most people would have the moment pass and realize it had to be reeva before shooting.
I also think his emphasis on "screaming" is suspicious. Is he trying to cover up from reports that neighbors heard them fighting?
- I like how all the theory weavers are conveniently leaving out the part where her head is bashed in with a cricket bat.
- Let's give him a standing ovation.
- "could the crushed skull have been caused by the bullet?"
I suppose if she were standing, and a bullet struck her, she could have fallen with force and hit her head on some hard bathroom surface. But if that happened, there would be traces of blood etc. on that surface, rather than on the cricket bat. She definitely didn't run to the bathroom with her skull crushed in from a blow with a cricket bat, once the skull is crushed all movement stops.
Based on the information I have, which is probably not reliable, I'd say he bashed in her head after she'd been shot. That was probably an act of pure rage, roid-induced or not.
- Tips For Not Accidentally Murdering Your Girlfriend
If there is a locked door in your home and there is even a remote possibility that the person you’re currently dating is behind that door and could be immediately killed by the bullets you fire at the door, try not to fire a gun directly at that door.
- He couldn't find the hand grenade?
- Quick question. So if steroids was found at his home, does that mean he might be stripped of some of his medals? This guy, in addition to the murder charges, is in a whole host trouble.
- Who here has ever had sex with an amputee before? I have. He only had one leg.
- R464 must be be from Saudi Arabia.
- Oh ick, R472.
- Do they have some equivalent to 911 in south Africa?
Cause why the fuck was he screaming so much in statement. Screaming for help, etc.. It is called a fucking phone. Is this to cover for all the screaming and shouting that the neighbors heard?
Also i realize the bathroom is InSIDE the goddamn bedroom, no? Like, it's not like he was stumping around the house for a glass of milk and suddenly heard noises in a faraway bathroom, right? How can you not assume its your gf taking a pee?
This talk of him lugging her body around the house in despair also soy ds like a blood stain coverup
- I agree with all your suspicions, r483.
- bump-because the dick who started a new thread about Pistorius doesn't seem to grasp the concept that this is actually a pretty big deal.
- More from the Guardian, the prosecutor's statement:
"(Pistorius) gained access to the toilet and carried the deceased downstairs where he walked into security guards. The main door of the house was not locked."
- If Oscar was afraid an intruder was in the bathroom, wouldn't his first consideration be to wake Reeva and get her to safety?
And how long does it take to put on prosthetic legs? Just curious.
- WTF, R472?!??!!? LMAO!!!!
- I know, that image is hilarious! Just rolling around the house looking for an intruder.
- R489, that is awful and FUCKING HILARIOUS!!!!!
- It does help me understand why he might have felt very scared at the prospect of a stranger being in the house. Although I think he intentionally killed her, I bet he did many times feel frightened at being physically vulnerable while he sleeps because of his legs (amputees almost never sleep with their prosthetics because they chafe uncomfortably).
Still, I can't get over the ridiculousness of the claim that when he heard the noise he put his prosthetic legs on and tried to kick down the door with one of them!
- So---Now we have a man who is paranoiacally afraid of intruders, yet:
~~He reportedly left the front door unlocked;
~~He initially went to bed with the balcony door open;
~~He knew that "contractors had left a ladder" outside his bathroom window;
~~He had locked himself and Reeva inside the bedroom.
It is completely unnatural for anyone---you, me, him---NOT to FIRST, especially in fear and panic, yell out the name of our companion, for assurance, for a warning, for help (Reeva was, after all, quite able-bodied). "Reeva! Is that YOU?!"
THEN, if the person in the W.C. doesn't respond---shoot.
Not to mention: How amazing of a shot was Oscar, that the first bullet prevented Reeva from screaming in pain? Or did it? Was that when Oscar was allegedly now screaming, after having been preternaturally quiet before, while attaching his prostheses and walking to the balcony to close a door, get patio furniture, etc.?
Or did Reeva not answer him or scream in pain because her head was already bashed in? A well-aimed bullet would perhaps camouflage this initial attack.
Pistorius's statement simply opens his actions up to even more questions.
- He's got the WORST case of 'the dog ate my homework'
It is hugely insulting for her family and everyone else that he is not telling the truth. His assumption that everyone else is so dumb they couldn't see through his desperately shitty story fits his arrogant persona nicely.
What a giant knob.
- Agree with R493.
- R472's Dorf on Golf made me laugh pretty hard.
- Dumbass BBC reporter in courtroom defending Pistorius in tweets - his story is so real and compelling.
- [quote]Strange that he had to go back to his bed to grab his gun out from underneath it, but he didn't reach over in the darkness to feel for Reeva and shake her awake or take a moment to discuss his suspicion of intruders with her and get her confirmation that she'd call 911.
Shake her awake? Are you that stupid? She wasn't in the bed for him to shake awake and discuss.
- Why is his brother so much more uglier than him? Was he adopted?
- I read elsewhere a post by someone who'd suffered a home invasion and who was now very paranoid that it would happen again and that person said they would NEVER go to bed with a balcony door left open and ladders left outside.
Also the *bedroom* door was locked. Was that for security? Lock the bedroom door but leave the balcony one open...
- South African guy here; thought I would respond to a few queries:
'Do they have some equivalent to 911 in south Africa?'
Sort of. There's a police emergency number - 1011 - but its a crapshoot as to whether they arrive or not. I once waited two hours after capturing an intruder (with a neighbour's help) before they arrived. We had to sit on the guy the entire time until they showed up.
However, most people subscribe to an armed response service, a private security company that delivers quick reaction to a threat. They also respond to medical emergencies and are usually on the scene in a few minutes. The investigators will check to see if Pistorius alerted his security company as a first course of action. They will also check to see if he had access to a panic button (most companies provide them) that he could have used to silently call for help, without leaving his bed. This would be the reaction of most people in his situation, if an intruder was thought to be in the house.
'Does South African law make a distinction between premeditated and unpremeditated murders?'
Yes. And the prosecutors are pushing for what is called a 'Schedule 6' crime - premeditated murder. They must be pretty confident of their case to do so. The burden of proof is higher than for a lesser charge of unpremeditated homicide.
Drugs and alcohol are not usually allowed as mitigating factors; even if he was stoned out of his mind he would still be regarded as being responsible for his actions.
The police leaks: most have been through the Afrikaans daily Beeld. This paper has exceptionally good contacts with the Afrikaans component of the police service. At the same time, the police have no doubt learned from the Shrien Diwani debacle. They do not want spin getting in front of the news cycle, as it did with Diwani, complicating the case.
- Just look at the lot of you already determining guilt on a man you don't even know. Do any of you know Ollie? No, so just stop. The people who do know him went on the telly today to share with the world what a wonderful man he is. They said he wouldn't hurt a fly and they have not ever even seen him be angry. It is just not in him. For God's sake, half of you didn't even know who he was last week and now you're all willing to condom him. Talk about jumping on the media bandwagon. Shame on the lot of you.
- 'Ollie'??? You're acting like you know him personally.
Well, why don't you read a bit about domestic violence. Statistically, women are killed by someone they know. The majority of the time a woman is killed by her partner. This case, sadly, seems to fit this pattern, and that's why people are being judgmental.
- "...and now you're all willing to condom him"
I'm sure we are!
- Thanks South African Guy.
Is crime a huge problem in SA?
- I completely agree with r492. Not yelling for reeva in fright is just not normal when you are sharing a room. Ie, "reeva is that you?"
I mean what about yelling for her to run?
- I can't decide if R501 is trying to parody a frau post.
- Wow r501 what an idiotic thing to post. It is idiotic if you know him and even more so if you don't. "knowing Ollie" is completely irrelevant when we are discussing the evidence presented in the courtroom like his statement and the pros statement.
- Also, south African guy, racism must be a huge problem in SA, or no?
I mean, living in fear of intruders must have an effect on making people more racist than in say London?
- I don't know anymore, the neighbor that heard the screams lives half a mile away, Oscar seems to have a knee jerk reaction to noises, he does seem trigger happy.
The steroids were nothing more than herbal remedies, I don't know, maybe it was a horrible accident.
- Johannesburg is not that bad! Staying out of dodgy drug infested areas, like any other city, keeps you safer. I'm not allowed to say how safe I feel - because then people give you karmic hell, telling me to wait until something bad happens to me, then I'd understand.
But going on just the facts of my life so far, in Johannesburg, I've had my gate motor stolen, and my car wheels. I don't know anyone who's been murdered. I only know of people being hijacked second-hand. I don't know anyone who's been robbed. My neighbourhood is middle class and mixed, poor people live close by as well as rich people. I went for a walk yesterday and walked past several black people, and nothing happened. Same as the day before, and the day before that, etc.
I know there is a crime problem, but only from news reports.
Maybe I take so many precautionary measures I don't even notice, but I don't feel unsafe. I think poor black people have it harder, especially if you live in township areas.
- South African guy here again; The country does have a horrendously high murder rate - roughly around 18 000 a year, I think. However, these are mostly 'social' crimes - ie - alcohol-fueled squabbles between family/friends that go bad.
'Contact' crimes - that is, being victim of a robbery or car jacking is less common, but gets far more press here, especially if it involves a white suburbanite. Farmers - mostly white and Afrikaans - are also targets of violent crime, because they present easy, isolated targets and have just the kind of items criminals want - like guns.
As the poster above points out, Johannesburg is portrayed as being a lot worse than it is. I personally seldom feel threatened - and frequent downtown areas regularly - such as Yeoville and the CBD - without mishap. I still avoid Hillbrow, however.
Race is definitely part of the crime discussion.The government likes to point out that whites in particular regard crime as a national priority, while blacks - who are by and large poor - see education, health and transport as being far more pressing issues in their daily lives.
I personally would like to see more discussion around Pistorius' Afrikaans heritage - a culture that promotes action over thought (I should know, as I am Afrikaans). A young man like Oscar would have grown up hearing stories from the older generation who fought in the bush war - and the glorification of it. There are plenty of men in the Afrikaner community who pine for the days when it was possible to saddle up and blow away their problems.
- Don't know R28. Propably just as racist as any other country. At least we admit it is a problem and are trying to do something about it, other than sweeping it under a rug.
As for fear? Yes. There is places you can go, and don't go. Times you drive and when you don't drive. But from what I've seen it's not a SA thing exclusively.
And to the person/s insulting the South African accent? Fokof.
Another SA guy
- Or maybe it was just a murder by a psychopathic athlete r509.
- My pharmacist and a college student in my apartment complex are from there. Both women. Both said that there is a horrible rape problem there, particularly if you are a white woman. Both said that they won't go back. As one of them pointed out to me in our conversation, this is where the anti-rape device originated with the fish hooks or whatever inside that the woman was supposed to wear inside her vagina at all times. That's how bad it is.
- Oh please. White women don't get raped more, and if they are, it's probably a white guy.
Do you guys get paid commission for every scary story? By which country? Who wants us to immigrate there? I know Georgia (the European one) wants the white farmers.
- Isn't pretty much every white person in SA an Afrikaner? With like a smidge of Anglo-African people from SA or from other British territories?
Are the court proceedings in English or Afrikaans? Would Oscar and Reeva have spoken English or Afrikaans to each other?
- Did you guys ever see that show Chimp Eden on Animal Planet, with the "hot" handsome South African chimpanzee conservationist guy Eugene Cussons?
He's like this rich white young South African guy, who lives on a huge compound and rescues and rehabilitates chimps.
It was unintentionally one of the most racist shows I've ever seen.
Like, Eugene was so nonchalantly unintentionally racist - it was almost shocking. Like, all the vets, staff, his social circle, etc were white - so all the people he ever talked to as if they were fellow humans with something to say were white.
And literally the only black people you'd ever see were like opening and closing cages for him or maybe driving as he barked orders.
I am surprised the show lasted as long as it did.
From a review: "I was finally struck with full force during an episode of Escape From Chimp Eden, when another white sanctuary owner was explaining to our white sanctuary owner protagonist that "the natives" killed chimps and thus she had to keep them within her walls. It is not that "the natives" are bad people per se, you see, just that they are ignorant and superstitious. Our protagonist makes a point to attend a market looking for bush meat, presented as barbarically as possible, to further illustrate how far 'these people' have to go. The fact that native Africans may be eating monkeys because they are hungry, and why they might indeed be hungry (or, for that matter, why people keep clearing forest land for their farms), is never discussed. Nor is the idea that white people coming in and walling off parts of African land to protect African animals from Africans is perhaps a tad paternalistic."
- R515, a quick Google search shows otherwise. Have fun.
- Someone on the "How does Oscar Pistorius have sex?" thread asked earnestly whether perhaps he has some sort of SLING attached above his bed to provide the necessary leverage.
The thought of him heaving his sling-suspended stubby Dorf-on-Golf body over some prone blond WAG, grunting and wriggling and sweating and cursing in Afrikaans, is rather unsettling.
I also have an amusing image of him yelling wildly firing his pistols in an impotent steroid-fueld rage as he dangles from his sling.
- Rape yourself, R514/R518.
- Sigh... The point is that there ARE revenge crimes against whites in South Africa. The reason that is relevant to this discussion is that Pistorius' defense team will want to paint a picture of a climate of justifiable fear. Pistorius apparently had a history of overreacting to sounds like the washing machine running and grabbing his gun and searching his house like a teenager playing Call of Duty. Except his story doesn't hold up when you consider that her head was bashed in and she was shot through a bathroom door.
- Fish hooks inside the vagina to prevent rape??? Have we gone off the deep end here? What woman in her right mind would use this device even if rape was a concern? Wouldn't a more sensible concern be that the rapist whose penis has just been flayed by these blades would ragefully slit her throat when he realized what had been done to him?
- Check out 'anti-rape device' on Wikipedia
- South Africa Leads World in Rape Cases
January 09, 2013
JOHANNESBURG — South Africa is often called the “rape capital of the world,” and it is estimated that more than 70 percent of women have experienced sexual abuse. On Tuesday, five men attacked and gang-raped a young woman in the capital, Pretoria. In the shadow of a similar attack in India that mobilized millions to protest, activists in Johannesburg say they do not understand why more South Africans are not outraged.
- I think his previously expressed 'bump in the night' fears were just a ruse, setting the stage for him to kill his girlfriend using intruder panic as an excuse.
- It's pretty well known that rapes are common in South Africa and India. We have a few in the US as well.
What is the problem?
- Last theory I heard is based on the fact that that evening she received a text from an ex-boyfriend. The theory is that they fought, he ended up clubbing her in the head, she holed up in the bathroom, and he panicked and shot her four times through the bathroom door. Police found steroids in the home, and believe that he might not have been in his right mind at the time due to roid rage.
- Police officer Hilton Botha claimed:
• [bold]That Pistorius knew Steenkamp was in the bathroom when he shot through the door and killed her.[/bold] There was “no way” it was self-defence, he said. He did not believe the defendant's story that he was trying to protect himself and his girlfriend from a presumed burglar.
• [bold]That Pistorius fired at an angle into the toilet door, and that Steenkamp's wounds suggested she was not on the toilet at the time.[/bold] The toilet itself was on the left in the toilet room. But Steenkamp’s wounds were on the righthand side of her body. That indicated, he said, that she was not sitting on the toilet when she was shot, but was “hiding” in the righthand side of the toilet room. The toilet room is inside the bathroom.
• [bold]That the shots were fired downwards into the door, suggesting Pistorius had his prosthetic legs on, contradicting the defendant’s account.[/bold]
• [bold]That Pistorius would have had to go past his bed to walk from the balcony to the bathroom, suggesting he would have noticed whether or not Steenkamp was in bed.[/bold] He also claimed he had found a holster for the gun on the same side of the bed where he found Steenkamp’s overnight bag and slippers (presumably implying that was the side on which Steenkamp was sleeping).
• [bold]That a female witness heard an argument between two people between 2am and 3am on the night in question.[/bold] Steenkamp was shot around 3am. The witnesses also reported seeing the lights on, he said, contradicting Pistorius’s account that it was pitch dark.
• [bold]That any burglar would have not been able to get out of the tiny toilet room window, and would have fallen down to the ground from that height.[/bold] He agreed with Pistorius that there were ladders outside the house, but said they were not near the bathroom. He said there were two dogs in the yard outside.
• [bold]That two iPhones and two BlackBerrys were found at the scene and none had been used to call the police or paramedics.[/bold]
• [bold]That two bottles of testosterone and needles were found at Pistorius’s house.[/bold]
• [bold]That Pistorius is a flight risk and should not get bail because he has offshore accounts and a house in Italy.[/bold] "We don't want another Dewani matter," he says, referring to the case of Shrien Dewani, the British man accused of the murder of his wife who South Africa is currently trying to extradite from the UK.
• [bold]That Pistorius faces new charges of possession of unlicenced ammunition, since the police found .38 Special rounds in a bedroom safe.[/bold] Pistorius has a licence for a 9mm pistol, not a .38.
• [bold]That Pistorius had never made complaints to police about violence or death threats against him (he said he had suffered from crime and death threats yesterday).[/bold] The prosecuting lawyer, Gerrie Nel, asked why Pistorius would sleep with his balcony doors open if he was so scared about crime.
• [bold]He also raised a number of previous incidents involving guns or threats of violence and Pistorius he said he was aware of, but it was unclear whether or not this was hearsay.[/bold]
- But cross-examining him, defence lawyer Barry Roux claimed:
• [bold]That the witness who said she heard an argument lives in a house 600m from Pistorius’s.[/bold]
• [bold]That this witness also said she heard two sets of three shots 17 minutes apart, yet only four cartridges were found. Botha admitted the witness had been wrong about this.[/bold]
• [bold]That the witness could not say if the voices she heard belonged to Pistorius and Steenkamp. Botha admitted that was correct.[/bold]
• [bold]That Botha did not ask to look at another of Pistorius’s phones – the one which the defendant did use to call for medical help.[/bold] “That call was made at 3.20am,” Roux said. A security guard whom Pistorius also phoned heard the defendant continue to cry after he failed to put the phone down properly, the defence lawyer said.
• [bold]That Steenkamp’s bladder was empty when she died, indicating she had indeed got up to use the toilet.[/bold] Usually at 3am you would not find an empty bladder, Roux said. Roux said Steenkamp’s autopsy showed no sign of defensive wounds or an assault. Botha said that was correct.
• [bold]That Steenkamp might have locked the toilet door to protect herself when she heard Pistorius shouting that there was a burglar.[/bold]
• [bold]That it was not testosterone Botha had found at Pistorius’s house, but a herbal remedy.[/bold] "It's not a steroid and it's not a banned substance,” Roux said. Botha admitted he did not know the name of the medication, saying he “didn’t read the whole name”.
• [bold]That it was pitch dark in Pistorius’s bedroom when the curtains and blinds were drawn.[/bold]
- Reading r500's post, I find it shocking that it's the norm in SA to contract private security because the police are inadequate. It's a Libertarian's dream come true.
I want to know about the panic button, or lack of it, if it's customary to be supplied by one. Seems like someone who is that worried about security would have one.
- [quote]It's pretty well known that rapes are common in South Africa and India. We have a few in the US as well.
[quote]What is the problem?
The "problem" is that not only is rape extremely prevalent in these countries, the surrounding culture has enabled it for so long that it might help explain to posters like r522 why women feel the need to do something as drastic as wear anti-rape devices. I'm guessing these devices incapacitate the attacker long enough that the woman can get away.
- I read all of the Guardian's live posting; the hearing is going into its third day. The defense has totally intimidated the lead investigator. He agrees that the (probably unreliable) witness (who heard arguments, many gunshots and screams) lives 600 meters away, then he says she lives 300 meters away. The guy seemed to fall apart under questioning.
It also sounds like OP could have shouted to warn her there was a break-in and she locked the bathroom door to protect herself with him not realizing she had gotten up.
I've only seen trials on scripted tv shows where both sides are ultra-prepared and word-perfect. This real life confusion and ineptness reminds me of the OJ trial.
- OK, R531. And then what? Move on already.
- I don't think anyone actually WEARS the antirape device - I think just some S.A. entrepeneur invented it.
I too think it's idiotic to have a booby trap in your vag that may inflame your rapist to murder you.
- There are too many unanswered questions in this story. I think the prosecuting team is weak and the Pistorius lawyers are top notch.
1. If he was so concerned and paranoid about security, why was the balcony door open at 3am in the morning? Their mansion surely had airconditioning in the bedroom.
2. He had to walk/crawl past the bed to get to the bathroom and retrieve his gun. Why didn't he see that Reeva wasn't in the bed or at least whisper something to her about his intention to shoot the intruder?
3. If Reeva did go to the bathroom, why didn't she turn on any lights? It was a long walk from the bed to that toilet.
4. Why did she lock the bathroom door when they were the only people in the house?
5. Why would the neighbour make up a story about hearing shouting and shooting? The defense needs to conduct a hearing test from the neighbours house to see if this claim is true or false.
6. Why didn't he ask the person in the bathroom who they were before he shot? Why didn't he hear Reeva screaming after the first shot? He pulled the trigger 3 more times.
After today's testimony I think he will get bail and if the prosecution remains weak he will be found innocent.
- [quote]There's a police emergency number - 1011 - but its a crapshoot as to whether they arrive or not. However, most people subscribe to an armed response service, a private security company that delivers quick reaction to a threat.
It's like a wet dream for U.S. Republicans. Cut government funding, privatize public services, create a new industry, effectively abandon civil rights for poor people.
- [quote] The fact that native Africans may be eating monkeys because they are hungry, and why they might indeed be hungry (or, for that matter, why people keep clearing forest land for their farms),
You clearly don't know much about the bushmeat industry. I suggest you read "Eating Apes" - you will discover that bushmeat is a luxury meat for the well-off. And preserving great apes is arguably just as important as saving any group of seven-year-old children - since that is the cognitive ability of an adult chimp.
- This will not end well.
- [quote] The main door of the house was not locked. (Pistorius) told his sister that he thought it was a burglar. We argue that this was part of the pre-planning to use as a defense. Why would a burglar lock himself into a toilet?
This is a lame prosecutor argument. How would a home owner know why a burglar was anywhere or decided to go into a bathroom? If the burglar realized the homeowner was getting up and might discover him a burglar would jump into in any room he could or the nearest room and, yea, maybe lock the door if he figured the homeowner was armed – which is common in S. Africa. The bathroom was a good 20 feet away through a hall way.
For those who have never experienced being awakened from sleep and confronted with a fearful situation it may be hard to understand the terror that grips your mind. I went through that experience and to this day I cannot explain how my brain was working – almost like on rote – half asleep but my body was functioning - and I didn’t think about anyone else in bed with me – or particularly rationally - I moved through the dark TOWARD the object of my terror – voices & noise I thought were in my home.
It ended in an embarrassing situation for me but if I had had a gun who knows if I would have shot at the object of my terror which ended up being on the other side of a door that had 3 locks on it. I can laugh now but how would I have explained to a court that I shot and killed the newspaper delivery boy on the OTHER side of my door.
I cannot believe that a defendant is giving testimony at what seems like his preliminary hearing. Wow. I can only remember Chuck Robb doing that – and successfully.
It is easy to sit in room and calmly think of things he should have done or hyper-analyze a situation after the fact. But that is not what happens in a panic filled situation. Common sense or rational thinking does not always come into play. It really is a survival instinct that moves you.
He needs a good psychiatrist to explain the brain and these different mind sets.
Someone asked wouldn't the gf have responded to his calls to call the security? No. She wouldn't have. She would have kept quiet and safe back in the bedroom. He may have lcoked it as he left the room or maybe if the lock is in a certain postion it automatically locks as you leave. Lots of doors do that.
What kind of "crushed skull" are we talking about? Is it just an injury to part of the skull caused by a bullet or him smashing through the door with the bat and also reaching her head (ergo injury to skull with her blood on bat) or even his dropping her to the floor after he carried her from the bathroom - what surface were his floors?
He could have just left the bat in the toilet stall and it could easily have gotten her blood on it that way. Just the bat coming into contact with any of her blood in the stall would have left her blood on the bat.
See there's lots of plausible answers if you can get out of the mindset that he must be guilty. Prosecutors tend to think there is only one answer to any given question and, of course, that would be the answer that fits neatly with their theory of guilt. Reality is far different and there may be numerous plausible answers that are just as consistent with innocence.
I think that intoxication can be used to mitigate the level of guilt in S. Africa - not get one off completely. However premeditation does not require some thought out plan - it can be practically instantaneous to the act. Intoxication of some kind might be capable of taking a first degree down to a second degree or lower like manslaughter. For instance, fatal barroom fights with 2 drunks is rarely charged as 1st degree murder - at least not in my jurisdiction. But that's not invovled in this case.
This will be an interesting case - I really know nothing about this guy and I wasn't one of those people compelled to watch him because he has limbless. I actually found the fascination with him rather tasteless and ghoulish.
- Wait, r539, so you believe him? I am asking this sincerely and not sarcastically because I never experienced what you described and have been trying to wrap my head around this since it happened. I don't understand why he would purposely kill her and someone said to me "crime of passion" but it still doesn't make sense. I was talking to my sister about it and she doesn't get it either. So maybe it did happen as he said. I guess stranger things have happened.
- [quote] That Pistorius knew Steenkamp was in the bathroom when he shot through the door and killed her. There was “no way” it was self-defence, he said. He did not believe the defendant's story that he was trying to protect himself and his girlfriend from a presumed burglar.
I can't believe an investigator is allowed to give an opinion like that - that is, to the ultimate question of guilt or innocence. That wouldn't be allowed in the US. And who gives a fuck what he "believes." He should be a fact witness only.
If the balcony is unreachable then I can see feeling safe leaving it open. Perhaps they build them specifically so they can be safely left open.
The defense already suggested a plausible response to the gf locking herself in - that she did so for safety hearing her bf calling out there was a burglar in the house.
I go to the bathroom and even other rooms in the middle of the night without switching on the light - especially if I don't want to wake someone up. If all she was navigating was a hallway then that's not an issue.
If they don't know where the gf was when the shots were fired then they can't determine accurately where the bf was. She may have been crouching on the floor and not sitting on the toilet. In fact, if she thought there was a burglar then I would bet anything she quickly got off the toilet so she'd be ready to protect herself.
How completely dishonest is it for the govt to deliberately exclude the information that there was another phone from which the calls to security were made? That is the kind of thing a jury here would hate - I don't know how a S. African judge would take that.
For some reason I want to keep calling this guy PREtorius not PIStorius.
- [quote] Wait, [R539], so you believe him?
R540, the simple answer is I don't know. I don't automatically DISbelieve him.
I haven't read everything but I am keeping an open mind. I'm a defense attorney so I know - have been trained - not to pre-judge. You never know what the answer will be until you've examined it all. I do know NOT to take at face value anything the government proffers. Look at how they've already shot down some of the govt's evidence.
I explained a panic-filled situation I was in many years ago in a post above - not sure the number. Until that time I would never have fully appreciated what happens to people when they have just awakened and are gripped with terror.
So is his story plausible? Yes. So far.
- Cry, the Beloved Country.
- r542 Good to know, I was curious if anyone thought it might be true. I am not sure but it's a weird ass story. Oh and your post at r539 has you talking about waking up in a panic, that's why I asked if it could be true, your story gives it some plausibility.
- He obviously knew there was someone behind that door. Someone he may have thought was a threat but he didn't know if they were. This appears to be a crime to me. You don't just shoot rambo style and ask questions later. He is guilty of killing someone, regardless of his intent.
- Mary Carillo was interviewed on one of the morning programs. She said around the time of the Olympics she spent a week with him.
She said he was INCREDIBLY paranoid about being a victim of a crime in his own home. At one point her crew left his garage door opened and he went nuts on his housekeeper. She mentioned he was jittery with regard to his safety.
Carillo seemed pretty shaken up. She said she thought he was a real hero and now she doesn't know what to believe. Women's groups are standing outside the courthouse with signs saying he should die in hell.
- Wow r546 now I don't know what to believe. What do you think? Was he a weird gun nut who overreacted or a murderer who premeditated the whole thing?
- R359 - You are making a lot of inferences about what other people would feel or do based on your own experience. By definition your experience was idiosyncratic and doesn't necessarily generalize to others.
[quote]Someone asked wouldn't the gf have responded to his calls to call the security? No. She wouldn't have. She would have kept quiet and safe back in the bedroom.
Really? How do you know she wouldn't have? Seriously. What makes you think she wouldn't have grabbed a mobile and acted proactively? Or just run and kept running until she was out the front door and banging on the neighbor's door? And why do you think she would have been safe if she kept quiet in the bathroom as stumpy was attaching his legs (how long did that take in the dark?) and in hot pursuit of a prowler?
You're telling us we have no idea because we haven't been in the situation, yet you're making all sorts of assumptions about what a woman in that situation would have done. Based on what?
- R548 should have been directed at R539.
- How could one live in a home or in a country with such fear that death could come at any time. He had the means and the resources. If he was that paranoid, why not move to a "safer" haven?
- I'm not going to read through this ridiculous thread because I see there are a couple of obsessed kooks.
If it's true that the bathroom door was locked, then he's guilty as hell. Unless she had Mexican or it was a public bathroom, people in a relationship will close the door, not lock it.
- But r548 r539 serves a purpose. We all think he is guilty but when it comes to trial r539 will be the thing they talk about. I don't know what to think and it's why I like both of your posts.
- Not sure if you're busting my balls, r547.
I assume he's guilty. My assumption is only based on media reports looking for a good tale of heroic athlete turned murderer.
Carillo's interview is at the url.
- Oh no, I wasn't busting your balls at all r553 I really don't know and have posted it numerous times. I am fascinated to hear everyone's take on this.
- R548, I am pointing out possibilities and plausible answers. The govt wants you to think that there is only one possible or plausible answer and that is the answer THEY come up with.
The govt is offering speculation about a lot of things. They are offering speculation as an answer and as the truth.
539/542 maybe more
- so r551 thinks he is guilty and that it's a given and is laughable that anyone wouldn't. R539 thinks his story is plausible. I don't know what to think so keep talking everyone.
- You statements about what a woman would have done in that situation were stated as definitive not as possibilities, R539/556.
- R539/r555 loves guns and thinks government is an evil concept. That's why he keeps saying shit like "The govt wants you to think that there is only one possible or plausible answer and that is the answer THEY come up with" and "The govt is offering speculation about a lot of things. They are offering speculation as an answer and as the truth." Hey, idiot, it's not the "govt" presenting this case, it's the prosecution.
R539/r555 believes we should all be able to carry concealed weapons and shoot when we want.
"It ended in an embarrassing situation for me but if I had had a gun who knows if I would have shot at the object of my terror which ended up being on the other side of a door that had 3 locks on it. I can laugh now but how would I have explained to a court that I shot and killed the newspaper delivery boy on the OTHER side of my door."
That's exactly why there should be gun control, don't you agree?
- I do agree to a point r558. I recently got out of a relationship with someone who was a zealous gun nut. We had about 50 guns just sitting around in our house. Now that I am on the other side I understand that this dude was crazy and most people don't live like that, but back then it was a normal thing.
- [quote] If the balcony is unreachable then I can see feeling safe leaving it open.
Obviously never lived in NYC, Miami, Rio or Sao Paulo. Anyone can climb into anything.
- [quote]Obviously never lived in NYC, Miami, Rio or Sao Paulo. Anyone can climb into anything.
Especially with those handy ladders!
- The insertable fish hook anti-rape device is called RapeX aka Rape-aXe. If a woman were raped by a single male attacker the device would latch into his penis and cause him such shock, pain and distress that it would give the woman time to get away. The device cannot be removed from the penis except by a trained medical professional, so anyone who had one embedded would need to go to a hospital, and would also presumably be arrested on the spot. Great idea in theory, except when a woman gets assaulted by more than one attacker. The first guy would be incapacitated but his buddies would be motivated to kill the woman out of revenge.
- "I also have an amusing image of him yelling wildly firing his pistols in an impotent steroid-fueld rage as he dangles from his sling."
Very amusing, considering he killed someone.
- [quote]This could have been another chase, ala OJ's Bronco, through the streets of Peoria, South Africa.[/quote]
I can't believe nobody's mentioned this. You bitches are slipping.
- The early reports made it sound like domestic abuse leading to murder but the prosecution's case as presented at the bail hearing is being demolished by the defense.
- The parents of his ex-girlfirend made a statement saying they were relieved when she escaped from his grip. I understood they meant he was violent towards her.
- • That the shots were fired downwards into the door, suggesting Pistorius had his prosthetic legs on, contradicting the defendant’s account.
Why would he lie about this detail?
- Because Oscar's defense depends upon the timing of events. A key claim is not taking time to attach his prostheses.
- Det. Botha, quoted upthread, is himself facing seven counts of attempted murder. Wtf?
- How can anyone with half a brain believe Oscar's story? Or even think that it is plausible? The twisted "reasoning" given up thread sounds just as desperate and ridiculous.
Oscar is a murderous liar.
- [quote] Oscar is a murderous liar.
And he's going to walk. Well, sort of.
- If it were a burglar it would still be murder, so I'm not getting what this defense means.
He did not give the "intruder" a chance to leave or explain himself.
- I think the state should have gone for a lesser charge than premeditated first degree murder. The defense is going to rip them apart. The fact is that Oscar killed someone behind a closed door without first ascertaining the person's identity or whether they were a threat to him. They should be going after him in that sense.
Proving it was premeditated is going to be too much for this second rate prosecution and Oscar is going to get off. His lawyers ad PR team are already in full swing.
I hope he does go to jail because he murdered someone. That is a a fact and cannot be denied.
- Has he had a history of abuse with ex girlfriends?
- This case is collapsing before it even begins.
The prosecutor's accusations are so filled with holes that Pistorius' attorney is taking the extremely unusual position of writing an affidavit for release on bail. It's going to work, and he'll be released tomorrow.
The lead investigator, Botha, is facing SEVEN COUNTS OF MURDER in his own highly publicized trial. He'll be painted as corrupt, violent, and incompetent which based on reports is totally accurate. Investigators tainted the crime scene and evidence almost beyond recognition, tromping through the scene, not wearing coverings on their shoes, etc., again according to reports.
Sorry, Nelly Nancy Drews.
- Check out this link & tell me he is innocent. Guilty as sin
- Of course he is guilty. Being a murderer doesn't mean he will be convicted. Happens all the time in the US. We also convict and execute innocent people.
- The case isn't collapsing and r575 is either deliberately distorting or unable to read and comprehend. The lead detective, who doesn't have to remain the lead detective, has seven counts of *attempted* murder against him. He isn't being accused of actually having murdered anyone and I doubt that just because he's a dolt the bullshit Pistorius is coming out with is going to convince anyone. There are 100 other things besides what the lead detective has so far said that punch holes all over Pistorius's version of events.
- The fact that Botha, the Investigating Officer, has a case against him means nothing. He is innocent until proven guilty, just like Oscar is. The defencet team is putting Botha on trial as a tactic to discredit the EVIDENCE.
- Propably because there is no such place as Peoria, South Africa R564.
This thread is a strange one, I've never seen the kind of racist comments made in other threads on this site on any other website. (That I'd willingly visit) . Jamie Oliver's journey into the American South was shocking, the racism there was in your face. But because it is South Africa, well... You do of course have the right to your own opinions, but some of you should really get of your high horses.
And could someone please explain one thing to me?
Why are white Americans called 'Americans'? Black Americans 'African Americans'? American Indians, 'Native Americans'?
- R579? 'He is innocent until proven guilty'
You just unintentionally made my day.
- [quote] If it were a burglar it would still be murder
No it wouldn't. It would be homicide. But not all homicides are criminal.
Of course it matters that the investigating dectective is facing serious charges. He should never have been on this case. Those eager to convict better hope he's not on the chain of custody of any of the evidence. Even if not convicted of the charges he faces he is stil ripe for impeachment because of his status. He has all kinds of reasons why he would want to seem the great detective who solved this case. Wow. Unbelievable development.
Some posts above
- R582 it is an intentional homicide at least. He didn't take care to find out who was behind the closed door. He didn't fire a warning shot. He intended to kill whomever was behind the door by pulling the trigger four times. It was not an accidental homicide.
- Roid rage...Nuff said!
- The PR team of Pistorius has entered the building. No matter, though, since Pistorius and those puffy pink nips of his will soon be making lots of prisoners happy.
- Oscar Pistorius needs to stop his fucking sobbing in court. It's so fake. He was man enough to shoot the shit out of a person behind a door. Man up you pussyboy.
- Narcissists will alwasy cry for themselves.
- Make it stop. Please, for the love of god, when I turn on the news, I want to see something besides Pistorius.
- Private security is a big deal in South Africa - around a million people employed in the business. The cops have around 250 000 members - so hopelessly outnumbered by ordinary guards.
Most companies provide a panic button service. I find it hard to believe Pistorius would not have had one next to his bed, if he was worried about security. The button is like those things you use to open garage doors. One push and it automatically alerts your security company, who send guys with guns to your home.
- The investigating officers' legal troubles will not likely affect the outcome of the trial; One of the advantages of not having a jury system is that a trained judge will focus on the facts of case - not be swayed like the morons who set OJ free.
- Don't know if this has been mentioned upthread, but I just found out that Oscar's PR - the one he called soon after shedding his bullets - is Stuart Higgins.
In a former life Higgins edited 'The Sun', that byword for truth and integrity as seen by Rupert Murdoch.
Several former 'Sun' editorial staff have faced or still face criminal charges; and the paper always took care to cultivate close ties to senior policemen. In many ways Higgins is the perfect man for the job.
- R591 that's very interesting. The biggest local online newsource in SA is news24.com. I've noticed that there have been very many pro-Oscar comments posted, some even saying they met him and what a wonderful being he is and all that crap. The thing is, you need to log into news24.com with a Facebook account to post comments so you can see who is posting. So I clicked on these people and they all appeared to be fake accounts with like 1 friend or so. Obviously PR trolls.
I started commenting on the same board about my doubts, not outright saying he is guilty but just that alot of this story seems very suspicious, on a balance of probabilities. Within no time I was banned from making further comments. Very strange. I wonder if he has ties to Media24.
- That's very creepy.
- The lead investigator has been removed and replaced.
- Pretoria is just a couple neighborhoods of the City of Tshwane.
- Why, oh why, did the police send its most compromised and controversial detective to the scene of a murder involving a national hero and lightening rod figure?
- South Africa is not the United States. There are not ten different lackeys available to answer every police call.
- Because he was the only one around at 3.30 in the morning, r596. It's good that he's been replaced, so gun lovers like r582 will find it less easy to go around trolling, trying to put little seeds of "doubt" into our minds.
- "That the shots were fired downwards into the door, suggesting Pistorius had his prosthetic legs on, contradicting the defendant’s account."
Except that forensics have not proven this; they've just started dealing with the evidence. It was the opinion of that disgraced policeman and the defense lawyers have already demolished him. What a mess.
- R599 = NRA lover.