Catholic Homophobia vs. Southern Baptist Homophobia
Sounds like a challenging category for "Jeopardy".
I'll take "Anita Bryant" for 500, Alex.
Most Catholics that I know--the people in the pews, not the priests and the hierarchy--are pretty tolerant. Some are even pro-gay and favor full equality, including gay marriage. And many Catholic nuns are über liberal and openly feminist.
NO difference, both filled with douchbaggery.
I agree with R2. Most - if not all - Catholics I know are very tolerant and accepting of gays, and other things like birth control (which the church heirarchy forbids). Southern Baptists, however, use their religion as an excuse to remain homophobic.
My boyfriend was raised Catholic. Most of his Catholic relatives are supportive of gay rights. I was raised in a non-religious household, but over the years I have seen extreme homophobia from Southern Baptists. I lived in Orange County, CA a few years back and I encountered homophobia by Southern Baptists and other Protestant groups.
Catholics tend to be live and let live types while with SBs it's my way or the highway.
I have to agree with previous posters. My partner's family is Catholic and conservative, yet they always invited me along to family functions and acknowledge me as a part of their family.
Just a few months one of the old patriarchs of this small town Catholic family asked me when we're "going to Iowa". It took us a moment to realize he was endorsing us to get married.
It seems that Gay marriage- is still marriage- and it can be wedged into their dogma that a)God doesn't make mistakes and b) Everyone should get married and have kids or some kind, be it bio or adopted.
Catholics are taught to love. Southern Baptists are taught to hate.
But then again- they're German catholics... as opposed to Italian, Spanish or Mexican, .... I don't know if there's a difference.
The Southern Baptist Convention got around to apologizing for slavery 20 years ago. Don't expect too much from these murderous, barbaric dolts regarding gay rights.
Agreed. While the [italic]controlling[/italic] Catholic Church hierarchy still adheres to the Church's ancient stance against homosexual "activities" (not homosexuality per se), the majority of the laity (i.e., non-religious), and even many religious (i.e., priests, cardinals, nuns, etc.), are supportive of gay rights.
I can't say this about very may Southern Baptists. And forget about the Protestant Fundamentalists!
Catholic = after buttfucking say the rosary
Southern Baptist = no drinking before cocksucking
The last poll I saw put Catholic support for gay marriage at 59%. I found this article that addresses why so many Catholics support gay marriage. Very interesting. I'm an atheist, but raised a Catholic with 10 years of Catholic schools under my belt and this rings a few bells. I'd actually forgotten it. The author contrasts Catholic conceptions of "God's grace" with the negative, Calvinist view.
[quote]But the Catholic imagination sees God everywhere, believes that God reveals Godself in all things and understands God can work through any human being or human relationship. By insisting that genital complementarity is an absolute requirement for marriage, the hierarchy places limits on God's power to work within all of the relationships of all God's beloved children.
[quote]Those who possess a sacramental view of the world often realize that any human person or relationship that brings love, mercy, forgiveness, kindness, generosity or faithfulness into the world is a sign of God's grace. Perhaps this is the reason so many Catholics defend marriage equality: They have recognized these graces can come forth as much through same-sex couples as heterosexual couples. Those who have a Catholic imagination recognize that a couple's ability to enter into a marriage commitment is not contingent on their anatomies, but on the depth, strength and fruitfulness of their bond.
Catholics are more supportive of legal recognitions of same-sex relationships than members of any other Christian tradition and Americans overall. Nearly three-quarters of Catholics favor either allowing gay and lesbian people to marry (43%) or allowing them to form civil unions (31%). Only 22% of Catholics say there should be no legal recognition of a gay couple’s relationship.
When same-sex marriage is defined explicitly as a civil marriage, support is dramatically higher among Catholics. If marriage for gay couples is defined as a civil marriage “like you get at city hall,” Catholic support for allowing gay couples to marry increases by 28 points, from 43% to 71%. A similar pattern exists in the general population, but the Catholic increase is more pronounced.
Beyond the issue of same-sex marriage, Catholic support for rights for gays and lesbian people is strong and slightly higher than the general public. Nearly three-quarters (73%) of Catholics favor laws that would protect gay and lesbian people against discrimination in the workplace; 63% of Catholics favor allowing gay and lesbian people to serve openly in the military; and 6-in-10 (60%) Catholics favor allowing gay and lesbian couples to adopt children.
Compared to the general church-going public, [bold]Catholics are significantly less likely to hear about the issue of homosexuality from their clergy,[/bold] but those who do are much more likely to hear negative messages. Only about 1-in-4 (27%) Catholics who attend church services regularly say their clergy speak about the issue of homosexuality, but nearly two-thirds (63%) of this group say the messages they hear are negative.
Compared to other religious groups, Catholics are significantly more likely to give their church poor marks for how it is handling the issue of homosexuality. Less than 4-in-10 (39%) Catholics give their own church top marks (a grade of either an A or a B) on its handling of the issue of homosexuality.
Seven-in-ten Catholics say that messages from America’s places of worship contribute a lot (33%) or a little (37%) to higher rates of suicide among gay and lesbian youth.
Catholics overwhelmingly reject the idea that sexual orientation can be changed. Nearly 7-in-10 (69%) Catholics disagree that homosexual orientation can be changed; less than 1-in-4 (23%) believe that it can be changed.
A majority of Catholics (56%) believe that sexual relations between two adults of the same gender is not a sin. Among the general population, less than half (46%) believe it is not a sin (PRRI, Religion & Politics Tracking Survey, October 2010).
for the most part, i think the catholic hierarchy should know better-- and does. i think most priests are drawn to the priesthood because there is something very fucked up about their psychology. i think most of them are either emotionally damaged or extremely immature (socially). perversely, i think what has screwed so many of them up is a complete inability to deal with their (homo)sexuality in a healthy manner.
southern baptist hate comes from a different place: it's more like an unwillingness to budge from a ridiculous model of an "ideal" societal and family structure-- one with white men making all the important decisions; and white women submitting to their husbands and tending to the children. anyone not fitting that exact mold is to be dealt with harshly.
North American Catholics are a lot more liberal than European Catholics.
Catholic Spain allows gays to marry.
And Portugal. Argentina, too, I believe. Civil marriage is permitted in Mexico City.
If put to a vote, I wonder if those predominantly Catholic countries would vote in favor of same sex marriage.
[quote]North American Catholics are a lot more liberal than European Catholics.
Western European Catholics are pretty damn liberal. Eastern Europeans, not so much, but more so than South/Central American Catholics.
This is like choosing what's more tertiary: Glenn's TV career or her movie career.
I don't think church-going Catholics, and even some not church-going Catholics are very liberal. I used to think that, but not anymore.
Really think Southern Baptists use the church to express their homophobia. But I have met less of them, so I do not know if it is all.
There are a lot of gay priests in Catholicism who are closeted.Quite a few nuns as well.A lot of Catholics don't agree with the hierarchy on gay marriage.
I went to middle and high school with kids that were mostly Baptist or Catholic, with a large majority being Baptist. In all that time I never had a single problem with anyone who came from a Catholic family. But every asshole who ever gave me shit about anything seemed to be Baptist. Many of them raised little monsters.
Noticing R1's signature, has Kathie Lee ever been asked/confronted about her early association with Anita Bryant? She's an Oral Roberts "University" grad, you know. Has anyone put the screws to her about her past?
Catholics would be fine except they have that Papal Idiot which would be fine (because everyone ignores him) but he's still there. Plus of course his boy-loving underdogs.
So get rid of the pope and cardinals and priests - and, you have a great religion.
I think Southern Baptists as a homophobic bully pulpit much more aggressively than Catholics. Wander into any SB church and the pastor will vigorously denounce all sorts of liberal vice in tones ranging from anger to condescension to mocking to threatening. I think it has a much more pernicious effect because it is delivered so locally and personally to the flock.
On the Catholic side, it's more like the higher-ups feel obliged to issue some official pronouncement denouncing same-sex marriage with some frequency, but you would be hard pressed to find this mentioned much in actual church service; and to the extent it is, it is expressed in terms of disappointment, not alarm.
The SB way is much more about inflaming the passions of an angry crowd. The Catholic way is more subtle.
Overall I think the message from SB preachers is more likely to lead to direct violence, but both forms of church-sanctioned homophobia are quite evil.
Southern Baptist also hate Catholics as much as they hates gays.
I was raised Catholic. Went to Catholic school, attended mass every Sunday, and had parents who both tried to enter the clergy (father quit, mother told she wasn't emotionally strong enough).
Never, not once, did I ever hear homosexuality mentioned, for good or for bad. Not in the church. Not at home. Never.
So, my question is, do they actually preach against homosexuality in the Southern Baptist religion...from the pulpit?? Or is it implied, like, no son of mine is going to become a cheerleader kind of thing. Now, that, I can relate to.
[quote]Most Catholics that I know--the people in the pews, not the priests and the hierarchy--are pretty tolerant. Some are even pro-gay and favor full equality, including gay marriage. And many Catholic nuns are über liberal and openly feminist.
I totally agree.
[quote]So, my question is, do they actually preach against homosexuality in the Southern Baptist religion...from the pulpit??
Yes, they do. And when they go on missions to Africa, they preach death for homosexuals.
I'm pretty sure they do, R31.
I had the same experience in Catholic schools and at church as you did. Not a peep. I went to public Jr. high during the Anita Bryant crusades ('77-'78), so I may have missed something. The priest might have mentioned it in passing, but nothing that made an impression.
It's kind of scary that Rome seems to be nudging their Bishops in that direction. I read that the church contributed $1 Million to the anti-gay marriage initiative in MN. Their bishop also spoke out very publicly. Apparently, a lot of Catholics in the area were pissed off that the money was used in this way, especially when a harsh winter was approaching and the money could have been used for assistance with heating, etc. Hopefully, other dioceses in the country will take note of the unsuccessful campaign there.
My partner's family (12 brothers and sisters) are hardcore Irish Catholics from Staten Island. His dad was a cop and his granddad was a police captain.
All of them without fail accept and love him -and by extension, me - and are very pro-gay rights. They weren't always that way. But they came around fast when he came out of the closet.
A lot of his friends are Italian Catholic -and I gotta say east coast Italian catholic women, in my experience, LOOOOOOOOOOVE the gays. I've been to many parties, weddings, BBQs, etc. and that bunch are out of control and dont think its a proper party without house music and homos hanging around.
Now I know that isn't always the case, but from what I've seen Southern Baptists are the complete assholes in this match-up.
When pressed about the issue, most of the Catholics I know - including my own mother, who dragged me to church every fucking Sunday AND every "Holy Day of Obligation" as a kid - seem to admit that they think of the church hierarchy as a bunch of silly, out of touch old men in fancy robes, and don't really listen to anything they say regarding feminism, gay rights, reproductive rights and other social issues.