Paul Theroux said in one of his books that the Australian book of rudeness is a heavy tome while the Australian book of etiquette is a slim volume. I've also heard it from American ex-Navy guys that Australians in general can be rather rough around the edges even putting Americans to shame in that regard. Maybe it's all the beer they drink?? There is also a saying that goes "the Aborigines are the civilized ones of Australia".
There are good and bad in Oz, just like anywhere. I visit regularly for work purposes, and usually enjoy the people, food, events etc
Sorry. Can't jump on the negative bandwagon.
Often in the UK, people sneer when they hear that I like Oz.
My usual question "when were you last there?" gets nervous lip-licks and a murmured...." well, I haven't actually been there"
Does that apply to r2 ?
Unsophisticated people with bad manners and mindsets of teenagers.
You just described the datalounge!
Bewdy mate r5 !!!!! If a tad harsh.
Extremely homophobic in Australia. The suicide rate of gay teenagers is tragically high.
r3, are you one of these types who like to kill the messenger? Or do you need to go back to third grade to practice your reading skills with SRA cards? Or both? If you noticed in my post,r2, I was repeating what OTHERS have said and what I have heard, you may draw your own goddamn conclusions, bitch, without attempting to accuse me of something or adopting some holier than thou attitude.
Ozzie and Harriet
I had a great time in Australia when I went many years ago.
I especially like the vibe of Adelaide.
Australian DLers --
Can you sum um the community ethos of the major cities in a few words.
"Canberra -- young professionals, sober-minded, power-worshiping wannabes."
What about Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, and for fun, Alice Springs?
I have the opportunity to request a transfer to Australia (from the US) and I've considered doing it for about a year now. I've never taken any big risks in my life and I feel that living in Oz would be incredibly rewarding for me. I've always been scared because A) I've never been there and B) if I request the transfer and get it, there's no refusing it, I would have to go. Any advice? The job would be in Sydney.
You should go, r10. Request the transfer.
Yes, what R9 said. I heard Brisbane is cunty, but I've never been.
It'd be the best thing you've ever done, . Just go. You'll love it.
I meant [r10] sorry. [r12] has no idea.
Is English your first language, R14?
R2. I am sorry if I came across as "holier than thou". I should have just asked straight out if you had been to Oz. The quotes you used were all negative and in fairness you could have found at least one positive quote to make your statements/quotes more balanced. You didn't ask a question or request comment, so I guess I shoulda left of the last 5 words.
Yeah, I guess I do want to kill such a touchy, rude, negative, ill-informed messenger. So sue me!
Brisbane: like a nice, clean city in Florida with good public transport. A bit bland and professional but very livable. Has become less sleepy in past 10-15 years. The river makes for nice cityscapes when it's not flooded.
Sydney: reputation for being flashy relative to the rest of Australia. A lot of Australians are ambivalent about the place. Body conscious / gym bodies. Some neighborhoods (long series of shops along a high street) remind me of a sunny London.
Melbourne: reputation for being the most "cultured" of Australian cities (more historic architecture, coffeshops, live music scene, hipsters).
We're a hoot, dolls. Next time you're down our way, stop by the house and say hello. My hubby Keith, my beautiful children and I will take you and your partner out on the town and show you the time of your life.
Australia bashing isn't uncommon on the DL. Having family members living in the US, I've been back and forth quite a bit and will share a few observations.
One of the main reasons Americans believe Australians to be more racist, sexist, homophobic etc. relates to differing public discourse on these matters. The US puts a lot of attention on symbols and words - don't use the N-word, don't use the F-word, was so-and-so's tweet homophobic etc. The result is that many of Americans put a lot of emphasis and attention on language. The public discourse in Australia is different with stronger emphasis placed on actions rather than words. Issues of racism, sexism are seen as problems that need solving, and the emphasis is less on language and more on finding practical solutions. With less public attention placed on words, you do hear more casual racism etc. in conversation - in the US, the racism is still there, but it's not spoken aloud. In the US, a lot of people believe that their racism. sexism or homophobia stops when they stop using particular language, when attitudes / world views etc. remain.
Australians cop a lot of criticism for our treatment of our Indigenous people - there is much to criticise, but there's much less to criticise than in previous years. All major political parties are committed to trying to "close the gap" between indigenous and non-indigenous disadvantage. Projects are incredibly well funded and media attention is prominent. Contrast that with Native American issues, which to me seem highly marginalised.
Rates of LGBT suicide in Australia are believed to be comparable to the US. Homophobia in Australia is certainly present, particuarly in rural and conservative areas, but I would say homophobia amongst the populace is much higher in the US, because we are significantly less influenced by religion (especially crack pot religion) and gay people are not the political punching bags here as they are in the US. You will not see much political point scoring in Australia when it comes to anti-gay bias. One Senator who suggested marriage equality would lead to legalised bestiality was widely criticsed and soon demoted. Even a new right-wing party dis-endorsed two candidates for homophobic comments. Although we don't have marriage equality, at a federal level we have everything but. My sister could marry an American and emigrate there easily - me, not so much. In Australia, gay people are seen as equal under immigration law. I believe some states still restrict gay adoption, but all other laws we are equal.
Australians are far more open to self-criticism than Americans, who are still influenced by "the greatest nation on earth" message. I know there are significant issues we need to resolve environmentally (we have a lot of climate change deniers here)and xenophobia is very widespread. The views in the community with regard to asylum seekers are deplorable. There is a hell of a lot of racism-masking-as-patriotism too.
We also have universal health care, restrictions on gun ownership, a politically inactive judicial system, government loans for higher education repaid without interest, a science curriculum free from creationism ...
Were you trying to say "pissy", r21?
You don't need to overcorrect for your lisp, R22.
A few more Australian cities:
Adelaide: great weather and quite livable. Despite a history of being progressive, its becoming increasingly conservative. Quite anti-progress in terms of development. Affordable but a little boring.
Darwin: parochial, isolated and insular. Very multicultural, which is great. Quite rednecky but in a live-and-let-live kind of way. Very casual with no sophistication at all. Unbelievably expensive. Not much to do if you don't like drinking and fishing.
Alice Springs: beset with social problems at the moment, which is a shame. Quite a socially liberal vibe with a small but strong artistic community. There's quite a strong lesbian community there apparently.
Perth: great beaches but expensive and boring for a city of its size. You have to live in the right suburb to enjoy Perth.
Melbourne is my favourite Aussie city - good transport, fairly affordable, always lots to do. I like Brisbane too but you'd have to deal with a lot of the conservative political views that stream down from the north.
Actually back when Australia had labor governments and US conservative ones, we were told repeatedly that it was legal for a man in Australia to beat his wife. That's where the reputation ultimately came from.
You belong in Australia r16, perhaps you should consider living there permanently.
Wow R25 - Where did that urban myth come from? As far as I know wife beating has never been legal here.
Has there ever been an idea to create a self-governing Aboriginal state out of Northern Territory not unlike Nunavut, the Innuit-Native American territory in northern Canada?
[quote]Australians cop a lot of criticism for our treatment of our Indigenous people - there is much to criticise
There is nothing to criticise except the billions of dollars the Australian govt throws at them yearly with no significant result except to reinforce a noble savage myth, a threadbare culture, and generational dependency and laziness. And many say that themselves.
I find it odd that Americans can criticise Australians treatment of Aborigines when their treatment of Indians is just as appalling. And as terrible as the treatment was, Australians never actually enslaved an entire race of people.
For a gay person I think Australia is great.I am an Aussie and I admit there is racism within some elements of the culture and homophobia,but compared to the US we are living the dream:)
Of course it depends where you live,but Melbourne and Sydney have a vibrant gay life.
As described by someone excellently before,the religious right has tried to play a part in Australia's policy and has failed miserably.Not that they don't have influence,they do but not to the extent of the US.
In some ways we share the cynacism about ourselves the English have and there is quite a bit of what is called Tall Poppy Syndome in which people who get to the top are knocked down.
That wonderful poster who said Australians don't mean the words they say is correct.You learn more by our actions than words.
Aussie accents drive he wild. I dont know what it is. Never been into the accent thing as a turn on. If I moved there, I would probably cream in my pants every day.
Would someone from OZ please tell me the truth about speedo's on the beach there?
I hear its the norm there for even straight guys, but other say that's not like that anymore. They are trying to be more American with the stupid long board shorts.
Australians have always been heavily influenced by the US as well as the UK and unfortunately the fascist Edwardian high collar costumes of yesteryear are making a splash here.
Having said that swimmers still wear speedos :)
But unfortunately you have more people saying how awful rather than how great they were.:(
Holy moly Batman, I am moving to Aussi land!
What do those guys think of Americans when they show up with bathing suits past their knees?
I wish America would get over the Speedo phobia already.
A straight surfer friend of mine came back from there and said he had fun, but a lot of gays on the beach. When I explained that Speedo's didnt mean you were gay, he literally could not process that concept.
In America only gay men were speedos. His wife was doing the same thing, talking about how gross it was while she sat there in her bikini sipping on a frosty.
Too bad R37. Only professional swimmers in the Olympics here are OK to wear speedos. Everyone else is ridiculed or called gay.
I was hoping you were going to say they don't care what America dose and thinks their silly:(
Are they hanging on to each other's dicks? Let me know, my IQ is 75
Oh we think Americans are silly but we still suck your cocks cause your hot and we will emulate you in every way while loftily feeling as though we are better than you ...,just saying :)
R31 - vibrant gay life? Really, you probably never been outside of Aussieland. Lots of European cities have a vibrant gay life, Sydney is a sad joke for gay people.
We have free and unlimited access to health care, no bloody guns to shoot the neighbours or local school kids with, a political system that doesn't believe their leader is one step from God and endless sunshine....If you can get past the occassional poisonous spider and snake and overlook that we seem to be underwater or on fire at this time of the year, then this is a great place to live. Love Sydney!
Kiwi in Oz
They have a huge Gay Pride R45, so I would not go there.
Good on ya!
At least one of the guys in the original elephant line has his hand in front of his junk so the guy behind him must be holding his dick.
Do they still have legal gay brothels?
Why do we get these threads with Aussie bashing?They seem to come up as frequently as the British bashing , Kiwi bashing and the Canadian bashing
Australians are not the ones who have 35000 people dying from gunshot wounds a year or spending billions on the military and then saying health care is too expensive to cover. We don't have elections that cost a small country's annual budget and hope we get enough people who care to vote,while our governors decide to make it is hard as possible to vote in the world's greatest democracy!!!
Our country has the most Boring politics in the world.Watching a debate in parliament is cheaper than sleeping pill prescriptions and twice as effective.But it works.
We are not without problems huge problems but the reality of Australia is that on the whole there is a tolerance of gay people and also Gay rights.Like anywhere these rights are better in the larger cities ,but on the whole being Gay in Australia is better than being gay in a lot of other places.
At the end of the day we did invent the speedo,so we can't all be bad :)
R51, in what sense is this an Australia bashing thread? You don't seriously think anyone at DL was repulsed by the elephant dance?
R51 I lived in many countries throughout my life, but if I were gay or black I would not live in Australia. Even women are way better off in most European countries or in the US. Australia is so way back in social liberal ideas it is shocking.
BTW I would like to know how many Aboriginal people die prematurely, because they are considered second class to most white Australians. Australia produces the most rubbish, emits the most carbon dioxide into the atmosphere of all industrialised country. Australians are among the fattest people. Education is poor - most Chinese migrants are way smarter and way more educated than Aussies.
The world's greatest democracy - most Aussies don't even know how to define what democracy means.
[quote]BTW I would like to know how many Aboriginal people die prematurely, because they are considered second class to most white Australians.
Give us the stats on American Indians first. Sanctimonious Americans.
Wow r53 just wow
Thanks for your thoughts but you may have lived in many countries but you obviously did not learn anything in them.
BTW I was calling the "greatest democracy on earth " the US not us,but I imagine you don't understand sarcasm so I imagine that flew over your head
I imagine you are trying to be deliberately provocative for while I agree Australia is one of the fattest places in the world the first place is taken out by the US.So please do not lecture us on who the fattest are in the world.
I did say we have problems but you have reminded me yet again that we not the ones with the main ones.
R53. Yeah, women are so better off in the middle east and Africa. You probably don't know that New Zealand and Australia were the first countries in the world to give women the right to vote. But of course facts are obviously a little bit alien to you. Sigh.
R20 is spot on.
[quote]Australia bashing isn't uncommon on the DL.
I love Australia. One of my favorite places in the world for a myriad of reasons. Beaches, Sydney, tennis, men, stunning beauty, some of the best people I've ever met are from Oz.
That said, trying to compare the social strengths and weaknesses of Oz with that of the US is silly. Talk about apples and oranges.
Plus, it's so obvious when you read an Aussie try and breakdown US policy and vice versa. The context of the very sensitive scenarios are way off. Reading about something in a text book or in a newspaper is very different than living it.
Thanks for providing the racist POV R29. I'm not sure where you get your information from. Aboriginal culture is far from threadbare - it's so hot and in-demand that white people are making millions from it. Aboriginal art is literally everywhere. A film about an Aboriginal girl group has just swept the Aussie version of the Academy Awards. And so on and so forth.
.... and look what happened since then. Standard Saturday attire for woman is to dress up like hookers with polyester dresses up their asses with 6 inch pumps and get pissed just to please their blokes who look like they just got out of bed. Scenes on a weekend around Oxford St and Kings Cross are the most shocking I have seen in my life. A survey some time ago showed that one in six female students experience rape or sexual assault. You are so bloody ignorant it's not even funny.
R59, other countries have beaches too, and regarding men - good luck finding one who is not an alcoholic. Beauty, sure when you get out of the cities it gets interesting, Sydney is dirty, ill kept, and polluted. Lots of cities are way more interesting and beautiful.
R61, if you looking at women in cheap polyester dresses and 6 inch heels in Kings Cross they aren't just dressed like hookers, they ARE hookers and if you notice the same outfit on "women" on Oxford St, you're looking at a cross dresser.
Get some glasses you poor pet and then move to the country asap. The big smoke's not for you.
Watch "Hey Dad" on YouTube.
R26 nails this Thread
[quote] You probably don't know that New Zealand and Australia were the first countries in the world to give women the right to vote. But of course facts are obviously a little bit alien to you.
I'm being pedantic but this is not entirely correct. Indigenous women were not allowed to vote in some Australian elections until the mid 1960s.