- So far it's great.
- The first episode was awesome. Just starting the second. Lovin' everything so far.
Love the whole Pamela/Rebecca stuff. Harris is a pig and his daughter is a cunt. Brenda Strong handled her material well.
Josh Henderson looks much more sexy than he did last year. We got a swimming pool beefcake Metcalf shot.
Can't wait for Juidth Light to show up. Is it true she is playing Harris' MOTHER? She can't be that old, can she?
- "I'm 1 for 1 for flushing out Pamela's. I plan on being 2 for 2."
- Oh dear, it looks like Judith Light is going to try and steal the show with its campiest performance thus far.
- Mitch Pileggi is 60 years old. Judith Light is 63 years old.
- Judith nailed it. Her fabulousness knows no bounds.
- I give it an A+. Awesome start to the new season.
Henderson and Metcalf are gorgeous, and of the older fellas, Mitch Pileggi can do whatever he wants to me.
- Mitch was always a hottie. I'd love for him, Ed Harris and John Slattery to do me in a big ole silver daddy gang bang.
- Never got the appeal for Pileggi on this board, but Ed Harris would have been great for that role!
Can't wait for Sue Ellen and Mandy to come face-to-face after all these years.
- R8, I'd love to be the meat in a sandwich with Pileggi and whoever plays Francis on Mad Men. Daddy heaven.
- Btw, OP, it is MariLEE ...
Fern Fitzgerald, who hopes to be invited to J.R.'s funeral
- [quote]Never got the appeal for Pileggi on this board
- As I said before, r12, I don't get it. But to each his own.
- Does anyone know how many episodes Hagman got in before his death?
- r14 I think 5-6
- He died filming the fifth episode.
I thought his scenes with Sue Ellen tonight were wonderful. A nice twist to see him defending her and helping her. Ironic that it took his words to move her to dump the booze in the sink. And their scene at her place when she kissed him and let him in to have tea was very sweet.
- Some better Mitch P photos.
J.R. will vanish and then later turn up murdered.
It will kick-off a who killed J.R. storyline with a cliffhanger as to who did kill J.R.
- Honey, Larry Hagman died. I don't know how much of a "spoiler" that can really be.
- R19 the murder mystery is a spoiler
some are not aware of how J.R. would be killed off
- I loved it! Now this is good soap opera, why can't daytime soaps take a lesson from Dallas?
- It was already announced they would go that route, r20, but thanks anyway.
I predict the downslide soaps took through the first decade of the 21st century will dissipate, and by the end of the second decade, soaps will be back on top again. We have been through ALOT of technological changes in the last 10 years - and TV and the media has changed considerably. We'll get back into scripted stroytelling. With GH's current unexpected popularity resurge and the possible reboots of AMC and OLTL online, we could be seeing the start of a whole new era/comeback for soap opera.
- They're bringing back Mandy Winger? That's kind of random. Is the same actress going to play her?
I also heard Ted Shackelford and Joan Van Ark (aka Jocelyn Wildenstein) are appearing.
- Great opening episodes. I loved how JR would just appear in a scene and then leave it.
Any truth to the rumor that Victoria Principal is coming back?
- I haven't heard a rumor that VP is coming back. All I've heard is her saying (over and over, for the last 25 years) that she will never play Pam again.
- It's been announced that Deborah Shelton (Mandy Winger) and Cathy Podewell (J.R.'s last wife Cally Ewing) will return for appearences at J.R.'s funeral. No word on whether the show will include Cally and J.R.'s son, who was a baby the last time we saw him on the original show.
Ted Shackelford and Joan Van Ark are returning for a story arc concerning a battle over drilling on Southfork. It will be the first time in years that both will be back home (both actors appeared in Dallas' original finale in fantasy What-If-J.R.-never lived scenarios, so they really don't count in real-time).
Years ago, after Patrick Duffy left Dallas and Bobby was killed off, Bobby's death was acknowledged as part of Gary and Val's story on Knots Landing. A season later, when Pam woke up from her dream and Bobby wasn't dead after all, this rewrite was never addressed on KL. The two shows made a break over this development (not only was Bobby being alive never ignored on KL, but no one ever contacted Gary when the Ewings were faced with a man who claimed to be Jock Ewing). Gary and Val coming back to Dallas this time around is a bit of an historic moment for the show's mythology; all that Bobby mess will have to be ignored.
Rumours have it that Charlene Tilrton will also be appearing with her onscreen parents this time around, which will be another historic moment considering Lucy appeared only once on KL in its first season and after Gary and Val appeared at her wedding to Mitch in Dallas' forth season, these actors never appeared together again for the rest of both shows' original runs.
- I love how Bobby kept looking at Pamela Barnes lke she stirred a painful part of his past for him; glad he was there for her revealing the truth about her identity. Later, J.R.'s scene with Pamela was very cool. Pamela Barnes is now the very real threat to the Ewings that the former never really was. Very cool playing with the show's history.
Glad they mentioned her mother was Afton. This has been hotly debated among longtime viewers ever since the show started.
I didn't think Gonzalo could lay this mini-Alexis type role, but she handled herself pretty well.
- Oops - I meant to write "not only was Bobby being alive ignored on KL..."
- I loved when Lucy went to visit KNOTS and she gave Val and Gary expensive gifts.
Gary tried to put the breaks on spending and Lucy said he wasn't around to give her lessons about money whene she was four years old so he shouldn't start now.
- I was hoping they would ignore Cally's very existence. After Linda Gray left the original series, it was dead to me.
Charlene Tilton has already appeared a couple of times as Lucy, so it's not a stretch for her to show up when Gary & Val do.
- The business with Ann and her daughter is coming off way too melodramatic for me but everything else is solid. TNT must have ramped up the budget because everything looks more glamorous with more sets, scenery and expensive clothes. The first season looked like it was shot on a tight budget.
- I'd be interested to see what became of Callie twenty years after escaping JR. I'm sure it will be nothing more than a cameo.
- Audrey Landers will also be making an appearance. She is Becca's mom you know.
- No Kimberly Foster (Michelle Stevens), no credibility.
- The fact that I have to ask "Who?" to who Kimberly Foster is tells me she won't be there and no one will miss her....
- And just when is MY cameo happening?
Susan "Sheila Foley" Lucci
- After mine, sister.
- I'll cut any of you bitches.
Colleen "The first and best Kristin Shepherd" Camp
- Sorry. ladies. It's me they want.
Mark "Kit Mainwaring" Wheeler
- So how did Pamela Barnes Ewing leave Dallas?
- From Wikipedia:
"Pam receives good news at the end of the 1986–1987 season finale: she is finally able to conceive a baby, after confirming that there would be no health risks involved. However, she never gets that chance. While calling her husband to tell him the good news, she is in a massive auto accident where she hits an oil tanker and is severely burned in a subsequent fire. While recovering from her burns, she decides to get away from the Ewings and everyone else, including her son, disappear and divorce Bobby for a second time.[
Pam made a brief appearance in the 12th season premiere, with a different appearance as a result of plastic surgery (which also doubled as an explanation for Margaret Michaels playing the role, rather than Victoria Principal). She tells her brother Cliff that she is happy in her new life and plans to marry her doctor. Later, after Cliff leaves, her doctor asks why she didn't tell Cliff that she has a terminal disease and only has a year to live. Though this was the character's final appearance in the series, Pam has never been declared dead on the show.[
- Apparently ratings for Monday's show BOMBED. Less than half of what the summer run was.
- Maybe not well promoted. I never watch that channel and stumbled on the premiere accidentally.
- I suspect people think that without JR, the show isn't going to last anyway, so why tune in.
- Allegedly we are told his season what happened to Pam and it is woven into the major plot of the second half of the season. From that info I take it though that VP will not appear.
Loved the first two hours. The re-tool of Rebecca works fine for me. Couldn't stand her as a whiny bitch in the first season. Also like that John Ross no longer is the ever losing douche. He actually accomplishes things. Wonder if he is going to inherit JR's excellent punch lines.
- R11, didn't you get my memo?
It's MariLU, now, bitch, I have my reasons.
- They're still taping this season. With the rotten ratings of the first two episodes, they definitely need to throw some money at VP and end the season with a Pam cliffhanger.
- Is there some analysis about the low ratings? The first season was well received and had very decent ratings. My guess would be the change to Monday night or maybe bad promotion.
- Or both R48.
Changes in time usually result in a ratings drop. And the premiere wasn't hyped as it should have been.
It's also possible that the death of Larry Hagman caused some viewers to lose interest.
This started off so well, I hope it doesn't get cancelled.
- I didn't think the show started as well at all. After the first episode I was bored and never tuned in again.
- LOl, then why are you reading a thread about a show that you admitted you don't watch?
- Because lots of Dallas fans come here with questions on what happened on the old show. I sometimes respond and tell them what happened in the past.
But the discussions on current storylines, I have no idea what is going on.
- Great pair of episodes. I honestly don't know how they're going to manage without Larry Hagman, as his there's something about his Satanic visage at the same time being so clearly still in love/protective of Sue Ellen that's really rather endearing.
Judith Light is going to be fabulous as a villainess, but I couldn't quite push the knowledge that she's a whopping three years older than Mitch Pileggi out of my mind.
However, while I know he'll never admit it, even my husband was entertained, which is high praise.
The Voice of the Night
- the reveal about Rebecca/Pam to the other characters should have been BIGGER.
I agree. Throw money and lighting approval at Victoria Principal and let Pam come home.
- Perhaps they can get the Mame lens out of storage.
Didn't Victoria P agree to come back for JR's funeral?
The Voice of the Night
- [quote] Judith Light is going to be fabulous as a villainess, but I couldn't quite push the knowledge that she's a whopping three years older than Mitch Pileggi out of my mind
I can't believe she is supposed to be his MOTHER
- They need to keep this as a summer show.
- Why couldn't Light have been Pileggi's sister? She should have taken umbrage and turned it down!
- I can't believe they played out all that drama about Rebecca's identity and the word "cousin" was never mentioned.
- I wish a nude pic of Josh Henderson would leak!
- What about Barbra Bel Geddes?
- Bel Geddes has declined any offer to return as Miss Ellie.
- I have seen nothing reporting Dallas' dismal ratings for its Monday return. Anyone have a link?
- They are verrrry distant cousins. Pam and Cliff have a different father; Christopher is the son of Kristen and Jeff Farraday.
It's all in name only.
- I didn't even know it was back until I saw this thread! They definitely did not promote it the way they did over the summer. I guess that might be because they're in a delicate situation with Larry gone.
- Bring back PAM!!
- Please tell me Morgan Brittany is returning as Katherine Wentworth!! She is Pam's aunt after all and would be a great foil for ole Cliff.
Also - Morgan Fairchild should be brought back as Jenna, not that robot Priscialla Presley.
- I am pissed. TNT had episode 1 on their site. Just went to watch episode 2 and they have pulled all full episodes of Dallas off.
- They should bring Dack Rambo back.
- Barbara Carrera as Angelica Nero! I will settle for nothing less.
- What about james beaumont
- What's going on with the Dynasty reboot? Whoever wrote Season 9 should helm the reboot. And Fallon and Jeff's son should be the 'mo with Steven's kid as a ladies man.
- [quote] Whoever wrote Season 9 should helm the reboot
That was David Paulsen, who also was responsible for many of Dallas great storylines.
- R62, it would be difficult for her to turn down anything, considering the fact that she's dead.
- Regarding the "abysmal" ratings, it was the highest-rated scripted cable show on Monday. Unfortunately, it appears that the bulk of eyesballs did not belong to the 18-49 year old set.
The Voice of the Night
- Lucci is available.
- From Deadline Hollywood: Dallas returns with series low
- This should have been saved for the summer. Definitely a summer series.
- True Story: I was sitting in Schipol Amsterdam in Dec 2010 about to board a flight to Boston. I noticed this plastic botoxed woman with her bedazzled iMac and sulky looking gayling son with fake LV handluggage across from me.
Turns out it was Audrey Landers and her son Daniel. When they started boarding she ran to the First Class line so everyone could see how fabulous they were. But when she got to the front they moved into the pleb queue.
I was "lucky" enough to be standing next to her at the passport control officers when she introduced herself and said something like... "And introducing my talented son, Daniel Landers". The passport control lady interviewing me giggled and asked me who she was and I looked at Audrey and said "No clue, must have been before my time" lol
The best was when we boarded the plane and I turned left and they turned right.
- I feel like there's no point in reintroducing any of these minor characters. Everyone who was on the original Dallas is now OLD, even the bimbos. And probably most of them aren't as well-preserved as Patrick Duffy and Linda Gray. They're bringing Deborah Shelton back? She's a 63 year old woman now! She's not going to step out of a car with a luscious mane of 80s hair looking like she just came from the set of Body Double.
- I'm well-preserved!
- OMG - The Six Million Dollar Man goes to DALLAS!!!!
Honestly, I thought he was dead.
- The blackmail story didn't make sense to me. So Ann gave the audio tape back to her ex-husband. How could he assume that they didn't make a duplicate. And how could Ann actually really not have a duplicate? And even if I buy that- why didn't he have Sue Ellen win the election and blackmail her then? Instead of outing her he could have benefitted from having a governor in his pocket.
- Anyone watch tonight? I recorded it but haven't watched yet.
- I have to hand it to them. They shocked me with that ending.
- You could really see how sick Larry Hagman was. At no point did he stand up during his scenes.
I wish they could have done some clever editing to put that scene of JR Googling himself and getting to reminisce about all his old schemes into his final episode. It would have been a nice way to go out.
The Voice of the Night
- They made short work of Harris Ryland, didn't they? I thought he'd be the one to kill J.R. Is Ann going to the pokey?
- Actually, the previews showed Bobby getting arrested.
The Voice of the Night
- So Bobby's gonna take the rap for her? That won't last long...the truth will come out.
Is it me, or is this new Dallas like watching a Desperate Housewives reunion?
- I might be wrong but I doubt that Ryland is dead. If he is I gladly take his momma as the future adversary though.
- R90, it's Dallas, so anything is possible. It just doesn't seem like he could've survived that. Of course, Pam did survive her car exploding, so...
- Ryland isn't going anywhere. There are some creepy scenes coming up next week between Harris and mother (Judith Light) that suggest something not quite right in that mother son dynamic.
- Josh totally does look hotter this year, yum.
That play against the transport dude and his daughter was a TOTAL JR move.
There's lots of other shows on on Mondays, tough competition for sure.
- Hopefully the ratings will stabilize and maybe even spike for Larry Hagman's finale.
- I know producers cannot just blame wrong scheduling when ratings are down. But even I have a hard time getting myself into Dallas on a Monday night. Wednesday wasn't that great either. But I just keep forgetting that it's on on Monday because I have other things on my mind that night. If it were just for me bring it back on Wednesday.
I wonder how they measure ratings reliably now that everybody has DVRs and watches shows whenever they want.
- I'm not supposed to tell, but Joan is trying to talk them into JR having a stroke and when he comes out of it, he decides to have a sex change. Just guess who she thinks would be perfect for the part....
- Ted Shackleford will be guesting in 3 episodes and Joan Van Ark will be in 1
It'll be downright frightening to see JVA's face on HD
It may be the scariest thing on TV all season.
- It's the Hallowe'en Episode.... Valene's Revenge.
- Tonight's episode was solid, though somehow I doubt Ann will spend much time in the clink. Next week's episode looks lame, however; apparently the producers never watched the first mini-season of "Dallas," which involved the Ewings being taken hostage at Southfork.
I'm a little irritated by the retconning in the last episode, however. Cliff was supposed to be hanging around Islamabad circa 1987, when the original show was on?? Are you fucking kidding me?? Also not liking this arc that perennial-loser Cliff has suddenly become a billionaire, all-powerful magnate minus J.R.'s influence.
I also have to disagree that the production values have improved this season. They were plenty good *last* season, considering the sheer number of on-location shoots, particularly at Southfork. I'm particularly bothered by the *very* fake Ewing Energies set, which has window vistas that don't even remotely look realistic.
Btw J.R. gets formally offed three weeks from tonight. I'll be very curious to see how the producers and writers handle it, given that it clearly means they had to scrap the remainder of the season (this one being 15 episodes vs. last summer's 10) to address this major plot twist.
On another note: I'm really not liking Harris's character. There's a difference between being a love-to-hate villain, like J.R., and someone who's simply a monster. Harris is in the latter category. That said, I am loving Judith Light and every one of her scenery-chewing appearances, even though it's completely fucking ridiculous that she's supposed to be the mother of an actor three years her junior. I'm sure she's channeling her old daytime soap days in playing this character, and I loved that the judge threw her off the stand tonight and told the jury to ignore all of her testimony. Bitch is cray-cray!
Finally, I'm already tired of the GM product placement; literally every character except Bobby and Sue Ellen drives one. We need everyone in a fancy German car like on the original!
- I can't get past the horrible casting of Judith Light as Harris' mother. It's laughable. What were they thinking?
- I can live with the Islamabad notion. I didn't find it that significant and tell myself he was there in summer when never anything happens on nightly soaps. Last years notion of Miss Ellie being incompetent after Jocks death was a bit more irritating to me.
And I have to say I love the changed Cliff Barnes. It's not that I like him necessarily being so successful. But he is so vicious and serious now. On the old show half the time he was a clown and I had lost all my respect for him. But using his own daughter for revenge no matter what and driving his quasi son into suicide- that's very strong. Love this side. I can see how he made his billions.
Agree about Ryland, he is not love-to-hate. Even after all the monologues last night I don't understand his hate for Ann. Why is he out to make her life miserable. I don't get it. Kill the son, keep the mother.
- [quote]But using his own daughter for revenge no matter what and driving his quasi son into suicide- that's very strong.
"Strong," yes, but I also didn't buy how Frank flipped over to J.R.'s side but then almost immediately 'fessed up to Cliff. OTOH he *was* a murderer (killed Tommy's real sister), so I suppose he had it coming.
- Give Judith Light and Emmy!
- SPOILER: In March, it will be revealed that JR was behind the disappearance of Pam. Jesse Metcalfe told TV Guide that he is "excited about the possibility of Victoria Principal coming back to the show."
- Could you link to that r104 I searched TV Guide and google and could not find that article.
- r105, I saw it in the print edition (Feb 25 - Mar 10 issue with Timothy Olyphant on the cover).
I hope it's not true (at least about JR being responsible). Because if he is, then he will die with Bobby hating him. I don't want that.
- Actually, I could see Pam reaching out to JR to help her disappear. He would have the connections to make it happen, and he'd certainly be glad to get rid of her.
- I would like it if these new writers tried to make some sense of Pam's bizarre ending. I always had a problem with it. But to actually bring Pam back I just don't know. It would be almost impossible to do it without it being so badly over the top or camp.
- No comments about tonight's show? It seemed to me like it was VERY obviously retconned - they took a brief, innocuous snippet of J.R. learning how to use an iPad, then turned it into some dramatic corporate espionage where J.R. somehow planted a virus on Bobby's cloud drive. (Note that J.R. was in the episode all of five seconds.) Quite clever on the writers' part, actually. The tell-tale sign was the exterior shots; last week it was still summertime, but this week we saw Southfork in late-fall bloom, meaning this whole episode was likely written and shot after Hagman's death and filmed early-Decemberish.
Anyway, from the previews -- all with scenes of J.R. from earlier episodes -- it looks like he finally gets taken out. I'll be curious to see how the writers manage to do it without actually showing Hagman. Btw you Knots fans will be happy to see Gary back, I'm sure.
- I thought last night was the worst episode so far in either season. The whole hostage thing was totally ridiculous - especially the part where Christopher was taken across town to his apartment and all the nonsense with the safe and the CSR or whatever it is called. It was disappointing.
JR was seen using his iPad quite ably a few weeks ago, so the maid showing him how to use it in this episode was a bit of a gaff. Probably a cut scene from back at the start of the season.
I agree with the above posters to kill of Harris and have Judith Light stick around - great addition to the show and I look forward to her scenes every week because she is so camp and fun with her performance. Some of the dialogue in last night's show was painfully overwritten with countless words I've honestly never heard anyone say aloud. All the actors are abetting themselves well, but it is clear the writers/producers were/are scrambling. I hope it all gets sorted out and the season goes out with a bang. Does anyone know if TNT is definitely renewing it or not? The numbers are down a lot this year, but maybe it gets heavy DVR viewing and online participation.
Also, it was clear most of this episode was shot on video - painfully obvious. Yet, it seems the scenes in the apartments (Christopher's and John Ross's especially) are done on film. The prison scenes and courthouse scenes in particular had that real-time, video look and feel to them. It's unmistakable. Did anyone else notice that? I'm sure it's a way to cut costs, but it's not preferable and makes Linda Gray look her age (which she really never does on film).
- I don't know how r110 enjoys anything.
Last night's episode was fantastic. It felt like old time Dallas (season 1-2) with the hostage situation at Southfork.
The editing of J.R.'s last appearences at Southfork was clever. I was not expecting the last-minute erasing of Bobby's harddrive - especially after a sweet funny scene of J.R. sending Bobby a funny pic via messenger. J.R. learning how to maneuver through today's technology.
I am guessing that those scenes at Southfork were originally intended for Bobby and J.R. instead of Bobby and Sue Ellen. It looks like Sue Ellen has been promoted to being the show's new driving force for new family conflict, a'la a version of Alexis. It was a bit too convenient for Bobby to be so angered by her move that he would declare war on her - considering their past relationship - but I'll swallow it. It was all set up nicely, if a bit rushed.
I regret that Hagman will never have that scene with Judith Light (the way J.R. watched the Rylands it looked like the writers wanted to have them interact), or that reunion scene with Shackelford and Van Ark.
Btw, when are Gary and Valene returning?
- r100, it would have made sense to make Judith Ryland Harris' elder sister after casting Light in the role.
Steven Webber is joining the cast as Dallas' new governor, who will be uniting with Cliff Barnes and Harris Ryland to destroy the Ewings.
- I haven't seen the whole episode yet--I just got home in time to see about the last half hour. But I thought it was very well done.
I was surprised the kidnapping was resolved so quickly and, yes it was a little implausible but at least they're keeping the plot moving. I was afraid the kidnapping plot would be drawn out for at least one more episode.
- r114, they only have 12 episodes this season so I'm not surprised the kidnapping ordeal was just this one episode. It is more of a throwback to the original episodes of Dallas in which a situation would be resolved within an episode while furthering the overall plot along.
Just wondering when Gary and Valene are showing up, as well as Afton Cooper. Anybody know?
- Sue Ellen's character is so inconsistently written. At first, she seemed pretty chill and happy in her life but now she's so slavishly devoted to her sociopath son. Are they trying to create a bunch of semi-villains to make up for the vacuum when the arch-villain is gone?
It's not working to give the iconic characters personality transplants. Don't like Evil Sue Ellen. Ditto Cliff Barnes, The Great and Powerful, especially since he has no personality traits other than "Ima get those Ewings!"
I did enjoy the little bit of Bobby-JR interaction this episode. They still have chemistry. The show doesn't invest enough time in the younger generation's relationships to make them interesting. All the partner-swapping is silly.
- I think Sue Ellen is just pretending to be aligned with John Ross to prevent him from going too far.
It was funny hearing Bobby call John Ross a "son of a bitch" with Sue Ellen right there-you could actually hear "Hey!" but it quickly cut to the hostage melee.
- A preview of next week's Dallas (for those who didn't see it): the END of J.R. Ewing ... and Gary Ewing returns.
- Victoria Principal has issued a statement saying she never plans to play Pam again:
[quote] “Since the inception of ‘Dallas’, the creators and fans around the world have referred to Bobby and Pam, as the Romeo & Juliet of ‘Dallas’. I could not agree more. And since the original author of this scenario, William Shakespeare, felt compelled to make theirs a tragic love story, of epic and unforgettable deathly loss, I think I shall respect that very successful example, and leave the legacy of Bobby & Pam’s tragic love story, undisturbed and intact.
When I filmed Pam’s fatal car accident, for me that was the punctuation mark on my role as Pam. I cannot be held responsible for any choices made by producers, once I left ‘Dallas’, but I do take responsibility for my decision, not to risk tarnishing Bobby & Pam’s love story, with a desperate reappearance. I made this decision a long time ago with a loving and respectful heart for ‘Dallas’, Bobby & Pam and all faithful fans.”
- That's Ok. At this point I don't feel she is necessary. The current characters are just fine and have great story lines. Wouldn't even know how to fit her in without Pam being a mere disturbance. As long as Ann stays, and I think she should, Pam couldn't really do much with Bobby anyway.
- What do you mean, when is Val coming back? I've been on for weeks! Don't you recognize my new face?
- I watching Dallas' first season now. I'm kind of getting into the return of the series and don't remember a lot as I was really young. I do remember who shot JR and Sue Ellen was an alkie and was sleeping with Cliff Barnes. He was an alkie too, right. So was Gary.
Anyway, I know that Ray turned out to be Jock's kid so him and Lucy is kind of yuk.
Wow, Pamela Ewing is gorgeous. But I never thought that Bobby was cute, he has a big head. Patrick Duffy is yuk to me.
- I don't think that Romeo and Juliet/William Shakespeare speech is why she's not returning, but like r120 said -- she isn't even needed.
- I thought it was clear that the main reason they had Sue Ellen do a 180-degree personality change was simply to give her a storyline. She didn't have much connection with the Ewings anymore, and last season the writers seemed to be grasping at straws in terms of potential plotlines, but now she's back in the thick of things as a controlling shareholder in Ewing Energies. I assume she'll be actively working there as well. Also, later in the season -- which is 15 episodes btw, not 12 as someone mentioned earlier -- she encounters an old flame played by none other than Lee Majors!
The hostage plot at Southfork was not only implausible, it was also already done in the show's first season (meaning the six-episode miniseries). Linda Gray's acting in that episode was what convinced the producers to make her a series regular btw (Sue Ellen was originally going to be a minor character, and Linda Gray was merely a guest star). I'm not sure which part was silliest: the assertion that there'd be a Venezuelan embassy in Dallas (!!), or the idea that Christopher could possibly travel from Southfork to downtown Dallas and back in under an hour, which any Dallasite will tell you is impossible (unless they traveled by chopper, though there was no indication of such), or that all of the show's major characters oh-so-conveniently happened to show up at Southfork just as the hostage situation was underway (particularly Rebecca/Pamela, who had no valid reason whatsoever to be there).
I'm still trying to figure out why they made the awesome Judith Light a guest star, but made Ann's totally boring daughter and Elena's totally boring brother into regular characters (both are in the opening credits). And really, why bring on these newbies when the show has such a wealth of original characters to choose from? (except of course for Pamela, Cliff's daughter via Afton) Are we supposed to have forgotten the fact that James Beaumont, not John Ross, is J.R.'s eldest child? (by 13 or 14 years - and that he fathered J.R.'s only grandson) Or that Jenna Wade secretly had Bobby's sole biological child? (passed off as Ray's) That said, Jenna is said to be returning for J.R.'s funeral, so who knows? How about her daughter, Charlie? She'd be 40-ish now, good for cougar bait for John Ross or Christopher. (Btw I'm probably the only one who remembers this, but Charlie had a hot fling with none other than a ranch hand played by Brad Pitt, in one of his first Hollywood roles.)
Btw by the end of the two "Dallas" T.V. movies, Sue Ellen had an equal share in Ewing Oil (along with J.R. and Bobby), and the writers were hinting at a possible liaison between her and Bobby! I know the movies are not considered "canon" as far as the rebooted show goes, but that'd still be a rather interesting storyline ('cause c'mon: you *know* Bobby and Ann will end up breaking up somehow - that's just how it works in soaps).
- They need to do something with Bobby. I know he was always too good to be true. But was he ever as stupid in the old show as he is now? He is making one bad and naive choice after another. Selling Southfork, confessing to attempted murder that he didn't comitt, losing leverage against John Ross by downloading a virus... He should be smarter than that. He looks like a complete idiot wih blunders like these.
- [quote]I'm still trying to figure out why they made the awesome Judith Light a guest star, but made Ann's totally boring daughter and Elena's totally boring brother into regular characters (both are in the opening credits).
Those are both bad casting decisions, but I can see why they wanted to add more younger generation characters since they've already used up all the hetero variations of Rebeccela/Elena/Christopher/John Ross. Neither of those actors have any charisma though.
[quote]That said, Jenna is said to be returning for J.R.'s funeral, so who knows? How about her daughter, Charlie? She'd be 40-ish now, good for cougar bait for John Ross or Christopher. (Btw I'm probably the only one who remembers this, but Charlie had a hot fling with none other than a ranch hand played by Brad Pitt, in one of his first Hollywood roles.)
Charlie's revenge would be great. Think she was last seen being shipped off to boarding school? I believe the actress also had a fling with BP when she was 15 and he was mid-20s.
- OMG J.R. gets killed and STILL no comments?? I'm thankful the producers had just enough back footage of J.R. to make it look interesting, and I'm aware that the "Who killed J.R.?" plot will likely take up the rest of the season. I hope it's someone good! (and I'm glad to see in the previews that Barnes crashes the funeral and gets knocked on his ass by John Ross)
Emma fleeing horrible Judith and Harris ... gee, not predictable in the least! (though I didn't foresee it happening quite this quickly) Looks like Southfork is suddenly sprouting bedrooms again; aside from Christopher apparently having moved back home, I guess they have room in the vastly smaller 2013 version of the Southfork house for Emma as well.
Gary looks like COMPLETE shit, and obviously hasn't gotten any work done in the past 20 years. And we're supposed to believe he and Sue Ellen may kinda sorta be an item? Please. The contrast between him and Val (the Jocelyn Wildenstein-esque surgery freak) should be quite interesting next week.
- Oh, but I did like John Ross's "back from the cul-de-sac?" zinger...
- I'm sad Hagman being gone. He had some really great lines and moments last season. But clearly they set the show up for more of his master pieces. He was about to plot against Ryland, Barnes of course and maybe even against Bobby and others. His plots could unfold in years to come.
Loved Judith Light again. Pick that up!
- Another solid episode, I thought. Glad to see Gary back, but sorry to see Ted Shackleford looked so bad.
I realize this reboot can't exactly follow the continuity of the earlier show/reunion movies. But on Knots Landing, IIRC, they dealt with Bobby's death but ignored the dream season. So Bobby would still be dead to Gary.
- I was hoping that JR would die a natural death instead of being murdered by one of his enemies. A frail old man being shot in a chair was just wrong.
- It was also a let down that JR's last words were so bland. After so many great lines over the years, those were not words to go out on.
- I had hoped that JR died in a different way then being shot again. Sorry Larry Hagman died and just not sure the show will last long without JR being there.
- The way we heard the shooter's heels on the floor, the shooter definitely wasn't trying to sneak up on JR. I thought it sounded like women's heels, but I guess it could have been cowboy boots.
That was a meaty scene with Harris and Judith when he pushed her away. I had read that Judith only signed on for 6 episodes, so I guess she'll be gone soon.
I was going to give up the show when J.R. died, but I guess it's interesting enough to keep watching.
- I, too, hated that JR -a frail, lonely old man, and mostly de-fanged by this point - was shot.
It seems unnecessarily cruel, especially given that the upcoming "Who Killed JR?" storyline will undoubtedly tank. Who would the suspects be? Unlike the original "Who Shot JR?", there was no set-up whatsoever. We don't know who his supposed enemies would be, so there's no real whodunnit.
- Judith Light has been embarassing in this. Her over the top scenes at the trial must have convinced her she's emmy worthy. Sorry Juds.
I heard Audrey Landers is coming back as Pamela's mother, and she is going to sing!! Remember once she and David Hasselhoff were the hottest singing stars in West Germany before the wall came down!!
- R136 I think Judith was channelling her previous soap role as Karen Wolek on One Life To Live for which she won an Emmy for her emotionally charged court room scenes
- [quote]He was about to plot against Ryland, Barnes of course and maybe even against Bobby and others. His plots could unfold in years to come.
You know, the show could very well rip off "Revenge" and have J.R.'s "masterpiece" -- which he mentioned in his last phone call with John Ross -- be a line-item list of all the people who've crossed him over the years, with his last words to John Ross to end them (figuratively).
[quote]I was hoping that JR would die a natural death instead of being murdered by one of his enemies. A frail old man being shot in a chair was just wrong.
FYI, my DVR has the TNT-provided description of next week's episode, which claims that J.R. was killed in a "random mugging." Not only does that make zero sense, it also doesn't gel with either J.R.'s last words ("I have one last thing I need to do") or the media reporting earlier this season that "Who killed J.R.?" would become the season's central storyline.
[quote]Judith Light has been embarassing in this.
Completely disagree. If there's any place where scenery-chewing is appropriate, it's a soap.
- A random indoor mugging? I hope they do better than that.
The only 'revenge' that would be work for me would be for John Ross to try to take down Cliff Barnes. Cliffy was always entertaining when he was thwarted. Except John Ross lacks JR's evil charm.
Hope they devote a whole episode to old characters who come out for JR's funeral instead of just 2 line cameos like at the Ewing BBQ.
- [quote]Hope they devote a whole episode to old characters who come out for JR's funeral instead of just 2 line cameos like at the Ewing BBQ.
I'm still pissed that they didn't give Lucy a scene with her Uncle JR when Charlene appeared last season. They were always amusing together.
I like Judith Light on the show. My only complaint about her is the accent. Doesn’t sound Texan to me.
- For those thinking J.R.'s murder is in bad tatse, it should be known this is exactly what Hagman wanted. He worked with the producers on a contigency plan if he should die before the series ended. These last appearences were filmed with the ailing Hagman knowing full well what would happen to J.R. if he should pass on while the show was still on the air.
Dallas was Hagman's life. He died playing the character most dear to him (an opportunity many actors don't get a chance to do again - especially in the midst of another wave of popularity) and he believed in the trooper-motto that "the show must go on". This is exactly what he wanted. A revisiting of "Who shot J.R.?" is the best homage they could ever give this iconic once-in-a-lifetime character.
And yes, it will be a murder mystery. By the end of the next episode, we will see a sudden revelation of events that reveal there is a gallery of murder suspects to J.R.'s death. One spoiler has it that one of the suspects will be the last person we would ever think.
- From tvline.com:
"What the specialized opening credits/theme starts, the back-to-back eulogies from Sue Ellen and Bobby finish — meaning, this send-off is going to leave longtime Dallas fans a blubbering mess. In addition to a flurry of returning faces (from the instantly recognizable to “Oh yeah, her”), framed “classic” J.R. photos are sprinkled throughout, to tug further on the nostalgic heartstrings. As for the “Who Shot J.R.?” murder mystery redux: It starts off looking rather skimpy — the only wrinkle is in what country J.R.’s body was actually found — until a final scene that in a rat-a-tat-tat of reveals casts a shadow on multiple suspects, including perhaps the very last person you’d think of."
- Is anyone else bothered by the fact that Drew has a very obvious Mexican accent and Elena has no accent whatsoever?
- It's fine to create a mystery around who killed J.R., but to shoot him again? Have someone push him from a balcony, poison him, stab him, creep up from behind and strangle him...whatever. But to shoot him again is just plain unoriginal. Otherwise, the show is mildly interesting. It lacks the campy ridiculousness of Deception, which is by far the funnest soap on primetime.
Knots Landing could have recovered from Bobby's dream by writing it so Gary was delusional and *belived* Bobby had died, when he hadn't.
- R140 No, Light doesn't sound Texan.
But Emma was raised in the UK and has no hint of an English accent.
It doesn't bother me.
BTW, I'm glad Josh Henderson doesn't have to whore himself out anymore. Remember when he was the boytoy for Ashlee Simpson and Paris Hilton (and worse, probably) ?
- r145, it wouldn't work because we saw the family contact Gary, we saw Valene mourn with him, we saw his friends gather around him. I'm thinking the viewers would have understood if the writers conveniently ignored Bobby's death considering the circumstances.
- R143, I've rationalized that by assuming Elena assimilated. She graduated from college and probably grad school and is engaged to a Ewing. If she ever had an accent she lost it in order to fit into those worlds. My guess is that Drew never attended college and hasn't been exposed to the other worlds as much as she has. Folks who move and/or marry into a higher socioeconomic class often put on airs and become more posh than people born into it.
Have you heard Robert's wife on [italic]Deception[/italic}? She was basically white trash who married a billionaire, but her accent and demeanor are more proper than anyone in that family. They were born into that world, and she wasn't. You wouldn't know it by listening to her. Elena isn't as extreme an example, but I imagine that she's done the same thing.
- I like that Elena's brother is suddenly referring to her as "Ellie." I never thought before that Elena might have been named after Miss Ellie.
The show has put out a casting call for the last two episodes of the season: a still-handsome 70 year old plastic surgeon and a Russian woman in her 40's. Hmmm...could this somehow be connected to a Pamela reappearance, perhaps played by another actress? I think maybe this plastic surgeon worked on burn victims who suffered the radiation from the Chernobyl nuclear plant meltdown and this Russian woman is one of his success stories. And Pamela is somewhere near them both.
- [/italic]stupid italics off.
- I hear the J.R. funeral will have us crying.
It will be my last time to watch Dallas. I'm choosing to end my Dallas viewing with J.R.'s funeral.
It will be closure for me to a great series (the original and the new one).
- All I'm saying is that someone better damn well end up in the pool at the funeral.
The Voice of the Night
- [quote]perhaps the very last person you’d think of.
OMG, Miss Ellie did it!
[quote]I've rationalized that by assuming Elena assimilated. She graduated from college and probably grad school and is engaged to a Ewing. If she ever had an accent she lost it in order to fit into those worlds. My guess is that Drew never attended college and hasn't been exposed to the other worlds as much as she has. Folks who move and/or marry into a higher socioeconomic class often put on airs and become more posh than people born into it.
Well, in real life Jordana Brewster spent her early childhood in Rio, the daughter of a Brazilian Sports Illustrated swimsuit model and an American businessman, before relocating to NYC, so she had an even bigger hurdle to leap linguistics-wise than the fictional Elena, who is presumably American-born. Also, children of first-generation immigrants generally lack accents, even if they grew up in a home where their native language was mostly spoken. Hell, my own grandfather -- the son of two Italian immigrants who didn't speak a lick of English -- had a decidedly upstate New York accent, reflecting where he grew up.
Btw Judith Light doesn't sound Texan, but then again, neither did the large majority of the characters on the original show (Miss Ellie, Bobby, Pam, Cliff, etc.). J.R. had an accent because Larry Hagman's a native Texan (yes, even though his mother was Mary Martin). Jock had one because Jim Davis spent most of his career working in Westerns. I'm much more bothered by Judith playing the *mother* of a 60-ish man than by her lack of accent!
- R153, agree re Judith Light - she's like 60ish HERSELF? WTF???
R153, I agree with you; right after Hagman died, I thought, well, there's the show. I'm certainly not going to keep watching it; I wonder if ANYONE is?(obviously lots of people! but I wonder what it will do to the ratings...I remember feeling sorry for the cast after Hagman died; wondering if the show can realistically keep going.)
Re speculation that the murderer will eventually turn out to be, "the last person you would think..."
The plot thickens...
- I have two suspects in mind. I wish it was Elena so they could lock her up and throw away the key. But realistically I don't believe it's anyone of the current regulars. I have two people in mind, neither would be satisfactory for me though. The one person I want to keep hanging around, and the other one would be a let down for me.
- It's ME, maybe?
- I've seen the funeral episode and it's a tear-jerker.
- Linda Gray was excellent tonight.
- Spectacular show - done with care, consideration, and honor to DALLAS' history.
Loved the little dirge at the begining replacing the usual uptempo theme. Very sweet thing to do.
Linda Gray should get a Goddamn Emmy for her graveyard speech!! She had me bawling. The scene in J.R.'s room in which she took her first drink in years was very sad.
Loved Bobby lashing out at Ann - we could have had a boring married couple going through mourning 101. Instead, Bobby has taken out his anger over J.R.'s death on her by taking out long-held resentment towards Ann for not telling her everything about her past.
Josh Henderson did a great job - I'm glad they wrote it as "understated" as they did.
The bombshell at the end was a little unexpected. So that was the person the spoiler said we would least sus
Memorable milestone in the Dallas canon. Very well done.
But no Charlene Tilton and Ted Shackelford scene yet?
- Spoilers if you live on the West Coast
I didn't quite get the ending. What was intimated with Bobby telling Bum to cover everything up?
If Pam murdered J.R. that would be the best twist in Dallas history!
- r160, it's obvious whatever J.R. left for Bobby reveals the identity of his killer. Bobby wants to keep the cover-up until he can figure out his next move. If it is who we think is it is, think of the affect it will have on Bobby's son - and Christopher and John Ross' feud.
- I loved John Ross and Emma in the liquor closet popping Klonopins.
It was just like one of my family's reunions.
- I thought indeed Linda Gray was outstanding. Even Patrick Duffy was very good.
I wonder if Victoria Principal's statement last week was a big piss off to the producers or actually with their consent. Bringing Pam into the game might be a big let down if she ends up being dead for years. Cooking that character up now may be a let down anyway if everybody knows that Principal is not coming back. And Margaret Michaels was nice, but if it's not Principal it's not really Pam.
- LOVED the show, particularly the inclusion of Callie and Mandy at the memorial, along with the real-life Dallas mayor along with Jerry Jones & Mark Cuban. The revised opening credits, minus Hagman's name but ending with J.R.'s face, were perfect. Someone really should've decked Cliff, but that was the only sour note.
In effect this was a triple-cliffhanger: what was J.R. doing in Abu Dhabi looking for Pam, and what did he find; the "Revenge"-esque letter for John Ross to avenge his death by taking down Barnes and Ryland; and the VERY mysterious letter that undoubtedly reveals who killed J.R., probably saved until the season finale.
Disappointments were few, but include a lack of rumored characters at the funeral, e.g. Jenna and Jolene. Linda Gray deserves at least an Emmy nom for her subtle devastation at losing J.R., and her turning after 25 years of sobriety back to drink at last. Even the letter she read fits perfectly with her final scenes with J.R. at her house, after she lost the gubernatorial election.
- Wait - I do have to mention several continuity errors. Mavericks owner Mark Cuban said J.R. sent him a note when they won the NBA championship a few years back, but wasn't J.R. still deeply depressed and mute in a nursing home then? Also, they briefly showed Miss Ellie's grave at the funeral, listing her year of death as 1993 (which ignores the two TV movies, but we already knew those aren't considered canon on the new show), but more disturbingly listed her name as Eleanor Southworth. By that point she was Eleanor Ewing Farlow! Finally, why was the memorial at the Dallas Petroleum Club (which actually exists - it's a ritzy private club, and the episode was apparently filmed on location there) when in the past all the action took place at the (fictitious) Oil Barons' Club?
- Aw, I was a bit choked at the opening credits and the funeral.
Sue Ellen turning up sloshed to the funeral was awesome.
Why would Cliff need to team up with anyone to take down a J.R.-less Ewing clan if he's a billionaire?
Eh, not thrilled about the idea of Pam being the shooter if that's where this is going. I don't think so though - Bobby would have been more conflicted and he seemed almost amused at whatever J.R. left him.
Was the guy who had the outburst at J.R.'s memorial after Cliff's a character from the past? I didn't recognize him.
Why do Bobby & Anne have such a cheaply decorated, tiny BR? Ditto J.R.'s room. IIRC, J.R. & Sue Ellen's BR of old was fairly opulent. These ones look like basement conversions.
- No, r160, that cowboy was not a character from the past. Just a drunk guy who decided to spit on a legend's grave.
The Southfork house was upscaled in the mid-80s to fight popular DYNASTY's opulent ostentatious portrait of wealth; simple hallways became musuem-like corridors! Before that, the couple's bedrooms used to be just plain simple bedrooms. The former Southfork, however, always had a more Big Valley-like mansion-style set-up in the living room and foyer sections. Now the house just looks like a typical upper-middle class house with open concept.
It's very strange how it doesn't match up with the former Southfork - apparently, the dining room has been converted into Bobby's den, and the kitchen is in the middle of the whole house. Everyone comes through the front door now as opposed to the traffic that always occurred through the backdoor patio.
I was hoping Marilee Stone would have shown up. Jordan Lee and Vaughan Leland must be dead by now. Punk and Mavis Anderson should be long gone as well.
- I loved when Lucy mentioned Mitch - and how J.R. said it was great she married a plastic surgeon so she could fix her face.
Hopefully, we get some Lucy, Gary and Valene scenes with Joan Van Ark's return next week.
- R167 pretty much nailed it on the Southfork house. The producers used the excuse of a season-ending fire-at-Southfork cliffhanger to substantially upgrade, as well as upsize, the interiors, which at that point were still taken directly from the real-life Dallas house where they filmed interiors before filming was relocated primarily to L.A. soundstages. Towards the end the upstairs had to have had a *minimum* of six bedrooms, which is ridiculous given its actual size of barely 1,000 sq ft!
I'm assuming the comprehensive Southfork re-do came for two reasons: 1) it's no longer the '80s, and conspicuous consumption is particularly out of favor given our seemingly never-ending economic malaise, and 2) the new floor plan actually *resembles* the real-life house, unlike the previous one. The sliding doors in back and on the upper balconies now actually exist within the house, and the open-plan kitchen/living/dining area is in sync with modern construction (never mind that the Southfork house was supposedly built before the Depression). Also, I think the producers wanted to focus on the family dynamics of the Ewings, and having a *house* people can relate to helps have *characters* people can relate to, particularly the newer ones like Ann (who, unlike just about any previous "Dallas" character except for Ray, drives an unpretentious base-level Chevy Tahoe).
Btw I think the reason they never used the front door on the original series is because it was based on the Turtle Creek-area house where they originally shot the interiors, not the actual Southfork front door (which is wide and has glass paneling on it), so they just used the rear as the primary entry point.
- I doubt the show will last without Hagman. But if they can solve JR's murder, reveal Pam's fate, and in the process resolve the conflict between Christopher and John Ross, that would be a satisfying ending to the Dallas story. Maybe they should just aim for that.
- I lost it during Sue Ellen's eulogy. Linda did a fantastic job. When she read that one line, "will you have dinner with me?" I cried like a baby. It would be great if Linda got an Emmy nod for that, R164.
- The interior rooms (sets) of Southfork in the first season seemed too small considering the size of the house in exterior shots.
Dynasty actually filmed much of the interiors in the Filoli mansion, used for the exteriors. When they built sets, they made a few changes--the location of the Grand staircase, being on the right later, IIRC.
Point being, they are sets which changed as the shows
These things remind me of the endless discussions of the Golden Girls house. At least with Southfork and the Dynasty mansion, you can see much larger homes being renovated over time.
- It's so distracting that Harris looks older than his mother!
- Mitch Pileggi is one fine mofo. He looks like he smells of Brut and would lay down a mean fuck in the sack.
- Mitch Pileggi looks like he has a really thick cock and would be one of those guys to wipe his dick on your brand new window treatments have his done deep fucking you.
- Will they ever explain Pamela's scar? It bugs me. Someone with her m oney would have gotten plastic surgery.
It could have later been revealed that this was Gary's hallucination (the part about Bobby dying), along with the other characters' reaction, or they could have retconned it that way. The other characters could have been humoring him, etc. Lots of ways out they didn't use.
- Wonderful episode. The opening credits were very moving. John Ross looked like a confused man in pain. Could have done without the John Ross/Emma Bell hookup in the back of the car.
Good seeing faces at the gathering, and yes, Sue Ellen needs an Emmy nod. Can't wait to see how this thing plays out. JR promised a masterpiece, and I believe it.
The writing bothered me. Cuban wouldn't have said "NBA championship" but instead something like "When the Mavs won the championship" or "the title."
The writing is the weak link, at least when it comes to details, but they're hung up on concepts.
Is that new? My mother asked me about it. I didn't notice it until the trial. Good lighting/makeup, I guess.
LOL, my mother said she's probably like "one of those Lindsay Lohan types. Got drunk or doped and fell."
Has it always been there? It looks so deep and obvious now.
- I think Julie Gonzalo has an actual scar. Maybe that's why they never explained it for the character. They should. Bet you can wrap a nice back story around it.
- [quote]Mitch Pileggi looks like he has a really thick cock and would be one of those guys to wipe his dick on your brand new window treatments have his done deep fucking you
You've just set my fantasies ablaze!!
- Scar isn't new. She's very pretty, but all I see is that freakin' scar. It distracts me.
- Sue Ellen's eulogy really got to me. That's as well done as it could ever be.
- I think J.R.'s death has been handled very well so far. Loved seeing Mandy Winger - she looked exactly like I would've expected.
It's great that they're apparently going to finally say what happened to Pam. It would be awesome if she ends up being the one who killed him.
- [quote]Dynasty actually filmed much of the interiors in the Filoli mansion, used for the exteriors.
Not true. They filmed the pilot and the follow-up movie there, but the interiors were reconstructed on a soundstage after the pilot was picked up. Unlike "Dallas," the producers only sporadically went up to the Bay Area to film exteriors there, e.g. the infamous Alexis/Krystle lily pond fight.
Btw the absolute BEST option for J.R.'s killer, though it's a long shot, would be none other than the original, Kristin Shepard. Yes, I know she supposedly OD'd, but "Dallas" has never let a silly thing like *death* keep a character from returning! Kristin being J.R.'s killer would be additionally rich for two reasons: she's Christopher's birth mother, AND they could conceivably retcon it for J.R. to be his birth father! (Kristin was originally pregnant with J.R.'s child, but later claimed she miscarried it and that Jeff Faraday was Christopher's actual father - that's an easy thing to write around though)
Agreed that Julie Gonzalo's scar is distracting. Can't she get some Botox or Restylane for that thing?
- I predict that Ann and Emma will both be killed off at the end of the season in an explosion of some kind. This would effectively punish Ryland and pave the way for a Bobby/Pam reunion.
- Yes, R186, I should have specified the pilot alone. However in the next sentence I mentioned the sets that were built.
- great observations here. I too was moved by the opening credits.
Sue Ellen did a great job in this episode.
Love how they are using it to add more plotlines.
- I'd really like to see a TV movie about the Ewings on Nov 22nd 1963, the day of JFK's assassination in Dallas. This year will mark its 50th anniversary. We could see young JR (he's be about 24) just out of college and heading off to Vietnam. It could end with Miss Ellie saying grace at Thanksgiving dinner.
- They made it seem like Emma and John Ross know each other. John Ross did live in England with his mother for a while, so it's plausible.
- [quote] Mitch Pileggi looks like he has a really thick cock and would be one of those guys to wipe his dick on your brand new window treatments have his done deep fucking you.
After he came all over your face, he'd wipe the rest of his load on your face and make you lick his fingers clean.
- Mitch Pileggi would fuck you on your brand new duvet, pull out of your lubed hole, wipe his cock on your new 800 thread count sheets, fuck you some more, then come on your face, pull you by the hair, drag you across the room and face plant you on your grandmother's fainting couch - the one that has been in the family since 1779 and was used by Martha Washington during her lady times. Then laugh at you for being such a filthy mess. Call you a sick whore and then leave.
- For some reason I have feeling that Cliff Barnes had J. R. killed. When this is uncovered it would prompt him to commit suicide. Would love to keep him on the show as a guest- godfather. But Cliff's downfall caused by killing his eternal nemesis would be a very fitting ending for this character. I don't think that this character has a reason to fight the Ewings anymore now that JR is defeated... unless of course JR's masterpiece had the table turned completely.
- [quote]Mitch Pileggi would fuck you on your brand new duvet, pull out of your lubed hole, wipe his cock on your new 800 thread count sheets, fuck you some more, then come on your face, pull you by the hair, drag you across the room and face plant you on your grandmother's fainting couch - the one that has been in the family since 1779 and was used by Martha Washington during her lady times. Then laugh at you for being such a filthy mess. Call you a sick whore and then leave
- [quote]For some reason I have feeling that Cliff Barnes had J. R. killed.
TNT is already on record as stating J.R.'s killer will be revealed as the LEAST likely person you'd expect. Clint is the single MOST likely.
- [quote]They made it seem like Emma and John Ross know each other. John Ross did live in England with his mother for a while, so it's plausible.
I suppose, but John Ross has got to be at least 10 years older than Emma. Emma would have been a young child when/if they met.
- [quote]TNT is already on record as stating J.R.'s killer will be revealed as the LEAST likely person you'd expect. Clint is the single MOST likely
Hard to say. I don't think of Cliff as a killer. But I'm mainly basing that on the character as portrayed in Dallas 1.0 the perpetual loser, bumbling fool. Cliff 2.0 is almost a different character from the old show. And who would the least likely suspect be? All of the expendable characters on the show had motive.
- In just 24 hours Joan Van Ark makes her much talked about three minute guest appearance! Will HD be kind to her? Will the datalounge be kinder?
- [quote]I suppose, but John Ross has got to be at least 10 years older than Emma. Emma would have been a young child when/if they met.
He may have *met* Emma, but that doesn't mean they were romantically involved prior to hooking up in Dallas. Btw J.R. was at least 15 years older than Sue Ellen.
[quote]Hard to say. I don't think of Cliff as a killer.
You mean aside from the fact that he talked his Pakistani aide of 25 years, whom he loved like a son, into killing himself for giving in to one of J.R.'s schemes ONCE?
[quote]But I'm mainly basing that on the character as portrayed in Dallas 1.0 the perpetual loser, bumbling fool. Cliff 2.0 is almost a different character from the old show. And who would the least likely suspect be? All of the expendable characters on the show had motive.
What on earth makes you think it has to be a *current* cast member? There are DOZENS of characters from past seasons with reason to want J.R. dead, and obviously at least a few of them have no problem coming back, hence the cameos of Ray, Lucy, Callie and Mandy Winger. As for the present characters, no one besides Cliff REALLY wanted J.R. dead. Bobby may have been pissed about the cloud-drive thing, but J.R.'s done far worse to him. Sue Ellen and J.R. ended things on a high note, with a lovely visit to her house before his death. John Ross didn't do it, since he was on the phone with J.R. -- inside Ewing Energies offices -- when he was shot. Christopher's too nice to kill J.R. Ditto Elena. Ditto Ann. Harris Ryland had no known beef with J.R. Ditto his bitch mother Judith.
No: I have a strong feeling the writers are going to go waaaaaaaay back into the original "Dallas" archives to find a suitable killer for J.R. And I still think it'd be awesome if it turned out to be someone we think is dead, specifically Pam or Kristin Shepard.
- retconning JR as Christopher's dad would be bad.
We saw Pam and Bobby go to L.A. and find her miscarriage bill at the hospital and Jeff Faraday (Christopher's birth dad) had a touching farewell with him...it made sense he wasn't dumping just Kristen's kid but his own when he gave him to Bobby.
I'm not opposted to occasional retconning; I think I'd be more on board with this one if Metcalfe was a better actor.
- I meant "opposed" -- "opposted" is when you post that you're opposed.
- Joan van Ark should cut at least 6 inches of her hair.
Linda Gray looks so much better than the rest of the original cast. Ken Kerchival (Cliff) looks ancient.
- I have the feeling that Pam is going to lose her babies. If so, that will put her squarely in the Ewing camp, bound and determined to destroy Cliff. Remember that he gave the order to trigger the bomb.
- I didn't think Joan Van Ark looked bad at all. Why leave it so open ended if Gary and Val left together?
- Cliff has clearly gone off the deep end. Giving the order to kill his daughter AND her two UNBORN CHILDREN?!? I'm sorry, but that's evil on a whole other level, and the writers are REALLY pushing the bounds of credibility here. I'm also finding it hard to believe that Drew would willingly build a bomb like that, even with promises that it'd be detonated when the rig was empty. Couldn't he just tell Bobby that a thug was threatening Elena's life?
Loved seeing Valene again. Joan Van Ark has hair extensions at least a foot too long, but at least she's either had some corrective facial surgery or her earlier work from a few years back has "relaxed" a bit. (Also, the extensions at least cover the sides of her face.) Still, she clearly has enough Botox and fillers in her face to keep even the likes of Madonna stocked for a year! (and good God, Gary looks like he's on the verge of death standing next to her)
PLEASE tell me they didn't just kill off Mama Judith (and through the most cliche means possible to boot, a fall down the stairs ... which I saw coming the instant she said she was cutting Harris off financially). She is WAY too good a character to kill off after a mere half-season.
Finally, how on earth did all those characters get to and from an offshore oil/gas rig? Dallas is nearly 400 miles from the gulf, and the closest rigs are another 100 miles offshore. A better question is how *Drew* got out there, since clearly he didn't fly in via chopper like everyone else presumably did.
P.S. Is Southfork sprouting bedrooms again? All of a sudden it's gone from two bedrooms (Bobby/Ann, J.R.) to five (those two plus Bobby/Elena, Gary, and Val). And why exactly would Val stay with her estranged husband's family instead of her daughter?
- Oh, and what was the "once a bitch, always a bitch" line from Val to Sue Ellen about? I mean, I *adored* it, but Val was only on a handful of early episodes of "Dallas," and back then Sue Ellen was still nice! They both came from humble beginnings, so there shouldn't be any snobbery issues between them.
- [quote]Why leave it so open ended if Gary and Val left together?
Huh? I thought they made it very clear that both characters will be sticking around Dallas a while, at least until they reconcile, and could very well end up as series regulars, now that Gary's working with Ewing Energies. We need another old blond bitch on the show if Mama Ryland is gone!
- The new Dallas can't seem to run any long schemes. Most of these plans are just too major to be wrapped up as quickly as they are.
Mama Ryland crossing Harris behind his back and teaming up with the Ewings to spite him would have been brilliant. Why just have her get pushed down the stairs?
Are we going to learn Cliff 2.0 is straight up senile or has a brain tumor or something?
- [quote]And why exactly would Val stay with her estranged husband's family instead of her daughter?
Did they ever say she was staying there? She turned up at the house with Lucy, I assume she was staying with her.
- R207, ITA re: Val's reaction to Sue Ellen.
On one hand I can't believe that it's 2013 and we're getting to see this stuff.
But Val was treating Sue Ellen like she was Abby or something.
- [quote]PLEASE tell me they didn't just kill off Mama Judith
I imagine she is dead, considering the show seems to go out of its way to kill off any interesting characters (Frank, Marta, Tommy).
- [quote]Joan van Ark should cut at least 6 inches of her hair
Or take the extensions out.
- I wish they would say exactly where Lucy lives now? I wasn't sure at first but she pops in so frequently it appears she still resides in Dallas. And is Ray still with Jenna? It's almost distracting not having those details.
- Damn we enjoyed last night's episode. Except Emma and JR2 are skeevy. Cliff is an evil bastard. Nice tie-in of Miss Ellie's wishes, but I've got a question: Who's had the other half of the Southfork title all of these years?
- r215 - That was weird. It seemed like Bobby didn't know. How could he have inherited Southfork for X number of years. . . and then lose half of it? Maybe I wasn't paying attention.
And Jock Ewing was also a John Ross, so Josh Henderson = JR3.
r214 - Not to mention Bobby's bio son with Jenna whom Ray adopted (?).
And has Callie's son with JR and his other, older long-lost son been retconned out of existence? I was hoping they'd turn up to contest the will.
- Was it me or did Josh Henderson's eyes seem two completely different colors last Monday night - one green an one blue? It was distracting during a close-up scene, then I kept looking for it every time he was on. I never noticed it before. He's hot, but strikes me as having an average-below average cock. At the same time, I get the feeling he cums like a champ.
- [quote]He's hot, but strikes me as having an average-below average cock.
Well, he was basically a male whore before he was famous. So he must be OK in bed.
- Judith Light as Mitch Pileggi's mother was bad enough but despite all her crazy surgery Joan Van Ark looks like Charlene Tilton's daughter and not the other way round. Charlene should go to Linda Gray's surgeon. Actually all of Hollywood should if they want good work.
- I'm not getting the ownership of Southfork either. They never kept the story straight. At some point Ellie was the sole owner; then she gave half of it to Clayton. In the last original season Clayton came to Dallas from Greece to hand title over to Bobby. It made Bobby sole owner and JR feel neglected. So if nothing changed in the years until Miss Ellie's death she had no Southfork that she could put in the will.
- Donna Mills is the one with THE best plastic surgeon. The woman looks just like she did when Knots was on the air 24 years ago.
- ITS A GOOD MURDER MYSTERY AND HINTING AT BRINGING BACK VICTORIA PRINCIPAL IS A GOOD WAY TO KEEP VIEWERES,BUT IT STILL MAY NOT GO MORE THAN A COUPLE OF YEARS MORE NOW.TOO MANY OTHER SHOWS LIKE IT NOW.
- Let's give a warm DL welcome to Donna Mills, who has joined us at R221.
- Is Sasha Mitchell still acting? He had those arrests for beating up his wife and then seemingly disappeared. The producers might not want James back on if it's Sasha.
Cally's son wouldn't have known he was JR's son, would he?
I bet Cally shot JR because he'd started looking for their son.
- It turned out Sasha's wife was the abusive one. I believe he got custody of the kids. Last time I saw him, he was a gigantic musclehead.
- I don't think the sex of Cally's kid was ever established.
- 225...he studied martial arts, did bodybuilding, and SHE was abusing HIM?? Come again?
- From the LA Times...
"Sasha Mitchell, a Westlake actor and kick boxer who stars in the television sitcom "Step by Step," pleaded not guilty Wednesday to assaulting his wife and endangering his young stepdaughter.
Wearing an earring and a fashionable blue suit, the 27-year-old defendant was scheduled for trial Monday in Ventura County Municipal Court on one misdemeanor count of spousal abuse.
But the trial was postponed six weeks, until July 18, because prosecutors had charged Mitchell with three more misdemeanor counts since his arraignment in late April.
Mitchell was arrested April 21 at his home after the Sheriff's Department received a 911 call from his mother-in-law, who said he was assaulting his 25-year-old wife.
Prosecutors say that Jeanette Mitchell was sitting on the couple's bed with her 7-year-old daughter when her husband slapped and kicked her. The woman fled to a bathroom and locked the door, but Mitchell kicked a hole in the door and came after her, Deputy Dist. Atty. John D. Colombo said.
"He whacked her upside the head, kicked her in the hip and put a hole in their bathroom door," the prosecutor said.
Prosecutors have charged Mitchell with two counts of battery, one count of spousal abuse and one count of child endangerment. He could face as much as a year in jail if convicted on the misdemeanor charges.
After his arrest, Mitchell was booked in the Ventura County Jail but released immediately on bail, authorities said. His wife was badly bruised but did not seek medical treatment, Colombo said. Jeanette Mitchell told deputies that her husband had beaten her in the past and that she has suffered a concussion and a shattered eardrum, authorities said.
David Dudley, Mitchell's attorney, denied the allegations.
"He is not guilty," Dudley said as he escorted Sasha Mitchell out of the Ventura courthouse.
Sasha Mitchell plays a cool but simplistic character named Cody in "Step by Step," a television program that also features veteran stars Patrick Duffy and Suzanne Sommers.
He is trained in kick boxing and has played roles in three kick-boxing movies, Dudley said.
Dudley accused police of fabricating the case against Mitchell. The lawyer noted that Jeanette Mitchell did not seek medical treatment for her reported injuries.
The lawyer called Mitchell a loving father and devoted husband. The Mitchells have been married about five years.
"He's made kick-boxing movies and he's been involved in kick-boxing training," the attorney said. "Anybody he intends to harm would probably be injured very seriously."
On Dudley's advice, Mitchell declined to discuss the details of the case. He did say that he would never do anything to harm his relationship with his children."
- And then Sasha Mitchell did...
"Television actor Sasha Mitchell, wanted in Ventura County for violating probation in a wife-abuse case, was arrested Monday in Tennessee, then freed on bond after he pledged to return home to face a possible jail sentence, authorities said.
Mitchell, 29, who rents a house on eight acres about 85 miles south of Nashville, was arrested by Franklin County sheriff's deputies, acting on a warrant issued here July 22.
The actor served 75 days in Ventura County Jail in connection with the 1995 beating of his wife, Jeanette, 25, at their Thousand Oaks home. He was wanted for failing to keep appointments with his probation officer and for failing to attend court-ordered domestic violence counseling, officials have said.
At his arraignment Monday, Mitchell signed a waiver of extradition and said he would willingly return to California, said Tammy Terpay, a deputy court clerk in Franklin County. "I believe he is planning to fly back within 10 days."
Mitchell, who starred in the ABC sitcom "Step by Step," posted a $25,000 property bond co-signed by John Bynum, a longtime farmer in the small town of Cowan, Tenn.
Neighbors said Monday that Bynum has befriended Mitchell and is teaching the actor and professional kick boxer to farm.
Mitchell's probation officer has recommended that he be sentenced to 90 days in County Jail when he returns, Deputy Dist. Atty. Adam Perlman said. The prosecutor would not say how much additional time in jail he will ask a judge to impose.
"I don't know what my recommendation will be, but he's going to have to do some time in jail," Perlman said. "I haven't even heard anything official from the courts in Tennessee yet."
Mitchell was first arrested at his home April 21, 1995, after he allegedly assaulted his wife. Five months later, Mitchell pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor count of spousal abuse.
He was placed on three years' probation and ordered to perform community service as well as attend counseling classes for spouse abusers. He spent 30 days in jail in January after failing to comply with his probation terms.
In May, a judge sentenced Mitchell to 60 days in jail for violating his probation and for continued violence against his wife. He was released after 45 days.
Mitchell missed three counseling sessions and was a no-show at four probation meetings. Because probation authorities were unable to locate Mitchell, an arrest warrant was issued last month."
- And still more on Sasha...she was pregnant when he assaulted her. Oh no...wait. The pregnant wife assaulted the kickboxer, body-building husband. Uh huh.
"An arrest warrant has been issued for kick-boxing actor Sasha Mitchell, who authorities say failed to keep appointments with a probation officer and a domestic violence counselor after serving jail time for assaulting his wife.
Mitchell, 28, served 45 days of a 60-day sentence for skipping court appearances after he was convicted of beating his 25-year-old pregnant wife at their Thousand Oaks home last year.
He was released early on June 17 for good behavior, with instructions to contact his probation officer and attend 52 sessions of counseling on domestic violence.
But Mitchell never showed up for any of the appointments, said Deputy Dist. Atty. Adam Perlman.
After Mitchell missed three counseling sessions and two probation meetings, Perlman said, his probation officer sent him letters requiring him to come in for a visit. When Mitchell failed to make that appointment, the officer tried to schedule a fourth visit and was again stood up by the actor, Perlman said.
"He's a no-show," Perlman said. "His probation officer went over to Mitchell's house, both his houses in North Hollywood and Thousand Oaks, and hasn't been able to find him."
So when probation officials filed court papers claiming Mitchell had violated terms of his probation, a warrant was issued July 22 for his arrest, Perlman said.
Mitchell's attorney, Howard Lowe, could not be reached Friday for comment. Mitchell, a professional kick boxer, starred on the ABC show "Step by Step."
- More about Josh Henderson being a male whore, please.
He get a "nasty kink freak" vibe from him . . which is not something bad.
We also need to know more about his cock.
- [quote]Did they ever say she was staying there?
Valene specifically said to Sue Ellen: "I'm not leaving Southfork until [I've freed Gary from your clutches or whatever]." She definitely said "Southfork," not "Dallas."
- [quote]Who's had the other half of the Southfork title all of these years?
[quote]I'm not getting the ownership of Southfork either. They never kept the story straight. At some point Ellie was the sole owner; then she gave half of it to Clayton. In the last original season Clayton came to Dallas from Greece to hand title over to Bobby. It made Bobby sole owner and JR feel neglected. So if nothing changed in the years until Miss Ellie's death she had no Southfork that she could put in the will.
Recalling my Property classes from law school, you can do a whole heck of a lot of creative stuff with it, including all of the above. Hypothetically speaking, Miss Ellie could have granted Clayton what's called a "life estate," which means he would've retained possession of Southfork until he died, after which point it would revert to Miss Ellie. Even if Clayton gave part or all of it to Bobby, Miss Ellie could have set it up that it would still revert back to her after Clayton's death (if we're assuming he died first, of course).
The bit about Miss Ellie writing a secret codicil to her will to revoke half of Bobby's ownership of Southfork after J.R.'s death is much more fishy, however, and I don't recall a legal doctrine that would allow such a course of events to occur unless Bobby was in full knowledge of it from the get-go. Also, in real life, you'd almost never see the type of arrangement Bobby and John Ross appear to have, which is called cotenancy; basically, only married couples have that kind of thing. In reality they would have to *literally* split Southfork in half, e.g. determine which specific parcels and acreage each of the two of them owns.
Further complicating matters -- and apparently already forgotten this season -- is that last season they established that the mineral rights to Southfork (everything underground, in other words) were deeded separately to the land rights. Bobby, Gary and J.R. had equal shares of the mineral rights (which is how Bobby kept J.R. and John Ross from drilling on Southfork), I think dating from some ancient document they discovered in Miss Ellie's old things that had never been superseded by another document, but now it seems that Bobby and John Ross co-own the land *and* oil/gas rights.
I guess the only thing that *is* clear is that the current producers don't give two shits about continuity, whether it regards ownership of Southfork, the interior layout of Southfork, total personality transplants (e.g. Cliff from loser to multibillionaire and outright psychopath), the existence of Clayton Farlow or James Beaumont (Miss Ellie's tombstone, seen at J.R.'s funeral, read "Eleanor Southworth Ewing," which makes no sense unless she divorced Clayton very shortly before her 1993 death), or where the fuck Lucy and Ray live and what they do these days.
- It is disappointing that they've tossed out continuity, particularly in terms of the characters behaviors.
- Without going into a bunch of boring details, my mother remarried but kept her original married last name because it is the last name of her children.
Help me out here, she didn't revoke half of Bobby's share, did she. She gave John Ross the share that would have originally gone to JR. Everyone just thought that Bobby had the entire thing, but he didn't. I didn't watch the later seasons of the original.
Anyway that kind of stuff doesn't annoy me, but forgetting children does annoy me. JR has at least 2 other kids.
- Does Josh Henderson wear a wig?
- When Gary came on the show a few weeks ago, I was shocked at how awful he looked. So wrinkly and pruny. I always thought he was sort of hot on Knots Landing but time hasn't been kind to him. Val, on the other hand, looks fabulous. She could pass as his daughter - and as Lucy's, too. Lucy looks absolutely wretched, like her acting skills have always been. She looks like somebody took pastry dough and formed a likeness of her. Sue Ellen looks good for a woman her age.
- The last episode was disappointing. I was expecting a little more build-up from last episode's relevations, but suddenly the show has taken a bizarre few turns and is in danger of veering right into the very camp that ruined the first incarnation of this show.
I can't buy that Miss Ellie codicil - that's the second time they used Ellie to further a plot through a rewrite (the improbable twist last season that she was in a mental institution after Jock's death years ago). Didn't make sense other than conveniently pitting Bobby and John Ross against one another.
The Sue Ellen-Gary-Valene story is right out of left field. I could have bought a Sue Ellen-Gary pairing (in fact, was enjoying the prospect of it), but now Sue Ellen doesn't want Gary and has brought Valene back to town to get rid of him ...? We could have at least seen Sue Ellen and Gary have one dinner together and establishing a worthy bond for this story to mean anything.
Valene's return had no emotional impact whatsoever. It would have been nice to have a little scene of Lucy and Valene catching up ... hell, we haven't even had a Gary and Lucy scene at all!!! They could have at least sat together at the funeral!
I'm thinking that Sue Ellen and Valene scene was a last minute rewrite meant to be between Valene and J.R. If you watch it again and imagine it being between J.R. and Valene, the animosity makes sense. I can't buy Valene attacking Sue Ellen so viciously.
What was with that melodramatic soapy staircase fall at the Ryland mansion? Harris struggles with his mother and she falls down the stairs ... soap opera writing 101. Boring. Ridiculous.
Cliff knowingly putting his (pregnant) daughter in jeapordy just didn't make sense at all.
I give this episode a D- in a season that has been otherwise filled with some stellar stuff. Hopefully, the show will pick up next week and give us some better material.
Audrey Landers returns next week, btw.
- I've grown to like Josh Henderson. I think he's playing John Ross as a perfect combination of J.R. and Sue Ellen.
- R237, I'm assuming that you watched Knots as a kid. Well he was probably late 40s to mid 50s then. Sometimes it is shocking to see people we remember as children age.
- [quote]Without going into a bunch of boring details, my mother remarried but kept her original married last name because it is the last name of her children.
So did mine, but Miss Ellie went by Ellie Ewing Farlow on the final seasons of "Dallas," and that doesn't explain why her tombstone said "Eleanor Southworth Ewing."
[quote]Help me out here, she didn't revoke half of Bobby's share, did she. She gave John Ross the share that would have originally gone to JR.
No, she revoked half of Bobby's share. She purposefully gave the entirety of Southfork to Bobby, not J.R., because she was worried (with ample reason) that J.R. would drill for oil on it. (Ironic, now that Bobby has decided to do so instead...) They established all of this last season.
[quote]I'm thinking that Sue Ellen and Valene scene was a last minute rewrite meant to be between Valene and J.R. If you watch it again and imagine it being between J.R. and Valene, the animosity makes sense.
You're right, that makes perfect sense!
- The original story must have been J.R. bringing Val back to town to break up Sue Ellen and Gary. That makes sense. And would have been wnderful to watch. Joan Van Ark and Larry Hagman were always great together.
Sue Ellen bringing Val back to town to get Gary away from her because she wants to drink is a stretch.
- What, no posts on my triumphant return? I deserve to hav my own Twitter account-can somebody here make that happen?
- Did I hear that right that Katherine Wentworth is dead? I thought that Bobby mentioned it when he talked about the shareholders of Barnes Global. But maybe I misheard.
- After the first episode of season 1 I haven't watched. And I am a person who has watched the original Dallas
The new EP is just not respecting the history of the show, and changing things that don't make sense.
- Yes, R244, he said she was dead.
- It did seem ridiculous to me that Sue Ellen had Valene in her phone's address book and could phone her with one tap.
- They are bringing back Dr. David Gordon the plastic surgeon seen with Pam in this scene.
- I mentioned that a page or so back but unfortunately my comments were italicized. They're bringing him in along with a Russian woman named Corina. I think they wrap the season finale next week.
- Sorry r249 would have given you credit! TV Guide broke it today. You must have some inside intel. Please tell us our Pam is alive!
- Is it just me, or is Audrey Landers looking an awful lot like Patsy Stone these days?
- Okay, while I know it's commonplace for TV writers to get rid of their impregnated characters' children via miscarriage, I think they went a little too far tonight, what with confirming that there was at least a chance the fetuses were viable, and then closing the show on their waning twin heartbeats on the fetal heart monitor. I have female friends who've miscarried later than the usual first trimester, and I'm hoping right now that they're not "Dallas" fans.
Also, in yet another continuity lapse, we're supposed to buy that all the oil rig victims were transported to *Dallas*, at least 400 miles away from any offshore rig, versus Houston, which not only has the largest medical campus in the world but is also a mere 40 miles from the coast?? Come *on* now.
On the brighter side, at least the producers wised up and didn't kill off Mama Judith. Hopefully they had enough time between the first episodes she filmed last summer and the Hagman death-delayed ones (IIRC this week's ep was filmed in January) to gauge some reactions to her scenes and change their minds about offing a character with so much delicious camp potential. I'm sure she'll figure a way out of the loony bin; all the women J.R. put there over the years managed it.
Finally, is there any particular reason Emma is such a ho? Seducing John Ross and then Drew back-to-back is the kind of shit we haven't seen since Lucy's earliest days (when she was fucking the man who'd turn out to be her uncle - oopsie!).
- I'm still pretty puzzled as to how Pamela/Rebecca could be the daughter if two people the Ewings are clearly pretty familiar with, yet Christopher and the rest of them had no idea who she was.
- OK, how much of a bitch was that doctor lady? JR wouldn't have put up with her shit.
I guess this was Judith Light's swan song-she started rehearsals for a Broadway play a few weeks ago. Looks like Mother Harris will be medicated to the gills for the rest of her natural born days.
Jesse Metcalfe was a naughty boy when he strongly hinted in a TV Guide (or was it EW?) interview back in January that the twins wouldn't survive the season because they'd be holding back Pamela from full bitchery.
So why weren't Gary, Lucy and Valene at the hospital?
- So, who is that blonde in the previews for next week supposed to be?
- Tonight's episode was definitely better than last week's, which was just a hodgepodge of events piled atop one another. A little more focused tonight. And the last scene was very disturbing. I felt horrible watching it.
Audrey Landers did a pretty good job as the mama cat protecting her young. But they are rewriting her character. "Put your claws away Afton," Bobby warned her, "you caused too much trouble in the past." Ok ... maybe for a brief time when she was just one of J.R.'s many mistresses, but Afton developed into a sympathetic character who was Cliff's long-suffering emotional punching bag. And it's definitely a rewrite to have her favor J.R.'s son over Christopher - by the end of Afton's days on Dallas, she loathed J.R. and adored Christopher's mother Pamela.
I don't understand why they aren't following up on Bobby and Ann's rift during J.R.'s funeral. He came aboard her and ripped her a new one; it was grief talking, but there were some serious issues he brought to the surface. Ann screwed her face up and cried, then spent the last two episodes walking around smiling like a Stepford Wife pretending nothing happened.
Emma Bell's Emma is a throwback to Charlene Tilton's Lolita-like Lucy, but without the perky vivaciousness. Emma has lived a sheltered and repressed life with her creepy overprotective grandmother. Now she's bursting out all over the place making up for lost time. It would be interesting to have eagle-eyed Lucy watching her closely.
No Gary or Valene tonight.
I'm surprised they are going ahead with this Sue Ellen-drinking storyline. Linda Gray said she agreed to do this reboot on the condition that they never go there again.
- r255, I have no idea who that is. I thought it was Judith Light at first, but I don't think it was.
Steven Webber joins the show next week.
Are Valene and Gary slated for more appearences?
- R256, I don't think Emma's making up for lost time, I suspect she managed to sneak out and have some wild times in Europe, too. There's definitely some schizoid thing going on with her. Maybe not a split personality but close.
Aren't Gary and Valene still around? The storyline couldn't have just ended with Sue Ellen telling Gary that Valene loved him.
- Emma's been medicated in the past, so maybe she's not taking her meds now that's she's away from the Rylands.
r256 - Bobby & Ann had a big make-up scene at the hospital, so they did follow up on their rift.
I wasn't moved by the fetuses dying, but it was funny when Josh Henderson and Jesse Metcalfe were both in the room playing that scene like they'd just graduated from the Joey Tribbiani School of Acting.
Sue Ellen's relapse is one of the more realistic storylines. I hope we get at least one more sloppy drunkface scene before she cleans up.
- Are any of you pleased and a bit curious as to what lies ahead for Sue Ellen with the character played by former six Million Dollar Man (and suspected down-low DL fave) Lee Majors?
He looks quite good for his age. He had work done years ago and looked awful, but at least he looks age appropriate, unlike so many other actors who they've brought back for the show.
- I think they should have kept the twins. Would have made great drama to have the kids between the Barnes and Ewings. And they need new kids quickly. How could they shoot a new show in 30 years if there is no Ewing anymore?
- I too am pretty shocked they killed off both twins. I figured at least one baby would survive. It would have been a great setup for the next generation Ewing vs Barnes feud.
- What's Jared Martin doing these days? Does he still look lean and sexy?
Lady Jessica Farlow Montford
- [quote]I'm still pretty puzzled as to how Pamela/Rebecca could be the daughter if two people the Ewings are clearly pretty familiar with, yet Christopher and the rest of them had no idea who she was.
Afton eventually left town with baby Pamela. It's entirely possible Pamela never returned to "Dallas" until a year or two before present day. What we don't yet know is what went on between Cliff and Afton in the interim, aside from the fact that (as noted by others above) both have had complete personality transplants from the original show.
[quote]I'm surprised they are going ahead with this Sue Ellen-drinking storyline. Linda Gray said she agreed to do this reboot on the condition that they never go there again.
In light of J.R.'s death, I think it's an appropriate storyline; if there's anything on earth that could drive her back to the bottle, that was it (and I take it Linda Gray agreed). Also, they're handling it tastefully - no drunken rages or blackouts or any of that shit. Gray's main interest is ensuring that Sue Ellen remains a "strong" character, and the fact that she's a functioning alcoholic (for the moment, at least) helps there, particularly since she's the one who managed to find out what really happened on the oil rig.
As for the absence of Gary/Val/Lucy, they weren't really needed in the episode, and the show's undoubtedly overbudget as it is for this year, considering how much footage had to have been scrapped and how many scripts rewritten from scratch.
- I was actually struck by how much Julie Gonzalo looks like a young Priscilla Presley. If they ever do a TV movie about their break-up JG is the one.
- At this point, I think the only *real* remaining mystery is the cliffhanger: will Victoria Principal reappear, despite her repeated and numerous denials of returning to the show? It seems clear now that Pam, the character, is returning (though not at all clear why she apparently hasn't left Abu Dhabi since 1989), but I have to question whether viewers will accept anyone other than VP in the role.
Question: why the fuck wouldn't Clint's henchman take out Drew as soon as he started leveling threats? The guy had no problem pressing the button on an explosion that could've killed dozens, including the two unborn children that *did* die - killing Drew is suddenly a big deal?
I have no idea what Audrey Landers has been up to the past 25 years, but she needs to fire her plastic surgeon STAT. In stark contrast to her earlier plump-cheeked appearance on the show, now she really does look like Patsy Stone in both look and demeanor. (And Patsy, darling, should've had some injectables eons ago to correct the sunken-cheek look that overly skinny women get in their 40s and 50s; ditto Audrey.)
- [quote]Question: why the fuck wouldn't Clint's henchman take out Drew as soon as he started leveling threats? The guy had no problem pressing the button on an explosion that could've killed dozens, including the two unborn children that *did* die - killing Drew is suddenly a big deal?
Not a big deal for Drew to die, but the henchman probably prefers to plan out hits rather than just reacting in the moment. Plus if Drew were murdered, then he wouldn't make as convincing a patsy.
- The writers knocked it out of the park with the episode dealing with JR's demise, but then this show went write back to being the campy, plot-driven drivel it's been all along.
The death of a series lead should have serious emotional ramifications for those they leave behind. Where is John Ross's grief? Bobby's? Even Sue Ellen seems to have shrugged off the loss, apart from a couple of discreet swigs of booze.
The old DALLAS (and KNOTS LANDING, for that matter) would have mined the hell out of the devastation felt by the other characters. This pitiful reboot sails right past it.
- That Emma girl is pure ho through and through. Too bad she isn't hotter.
- Yes they are relying way too much on plot right now. Last week's episode should have been more about a fallout from J.R.'s death rather than the plot-contrived situations piled atop one another like it was. Harris pushing his mother down the stairs? Really? Sue Ellen trying to toss off Gary, whose attitude over J.R.'s passing was terribly evasive? Valene making a 2-minute appearence with no mention of her past history with J.R.? The show is getting ahead of itself.
- If they're going to keep the new viewers, who may not be as familiar with the old show, they have to move on. Bringing the plot to a standstill is guaranteed death for the show.
Also, when this season's bible was written, it was long before Hagman's death. There simply wasn't time to throw out all that had been planned and start from scratch. Life goes on, even in real life.
- R271 I like the new Dallas, but you got to remember it's a soap opera through and through and in an attemp to be modrmized they're not gonna spend a lot of time on chatacters grief, like the old Dallas would of in the 70s or 80s.
Just look at the remaining daytime soaps, quicker scenes and more cuts, more storylines going on at once, less character development.
It's a sign of the times.
- [quote]The death of a series lead should have serious emotional ramifications for those they leave behind.
I really don't think you're recalling the original series correctly. It's really not much fun to watch characters sit around and mope all day, which is why television in general doesn't "dwell" on anyone's death, regardless of how big. Besides, the only ones *truly* close to J.R. were John Ross and Sue Ellen; John Ross is burying his feelings, like a "real Texas man," and Sue Ellen is seeking solace with scotch and the Six Million Dollar Man.
- When Jock (not nearly as central a character) died, it seemed to play out for a long time. But I might not be remembering correctly either. I vaguely remember that J.R. was really choked when Miss Ellie wanted to take down Jock's portrait at Southfork after she married Clayton, years after Jock had died.
SOW, is that thing still hanging around somewhere in the new series? Jock's cheesy painting kinda was like a character.
- To be fair, the characters were all pretty distracted from thinking about JR this week by almost being blown up on an oil rig.
- To be honest I am surprised that they didn't have a contingency plan in case of Hagman's passing. He had cancer before the first season was shot and he informed the producers about it. It just makes good business sense to incorporate this possibility in your plans for the season. Hagman was very fragile when shooting the second season began. They knew he wouldn't get any better.
And yes, Jocks death was milked to no end. Right now it looks like they're going to milk JR's masterpiece, not his death.
While the original Dallas was a lot plot driven too, they still had their character driven story lines, which imho is the reason why it's still watchable. I think plot driven shows are usually just good for one time consumption. After that the shock effect is over and you're done with it. Character driven shows you can watch over and over again.
- I cannot rest until I know that Victoria Principal will be back.
- I don't know if VP will be back but I have to believe Pam will be back in some shape or form. They would not have dredged all this up and have Christopher go off to find her with no payoff. As of last week we know Pam did not die after she told Cliff she was when he found her in 1988. We know she was alive and living in Abu Dhabi in the 90's. We know she still owns 1/3 of Barnes Global. There is no way they are building all of this up to have Christopher find a head stone somewhere and us find out Pam died last year of pneumonia or something. Maybe Margaret Michaels will be back, or perhaps a recast with plastic surgery. I liked the idea of Anne turning out to be Pam that was floating around last season. Or maybe VP is coming back and Cynthia Cidre has managed to keep a total secret but I guess we will find out in a few weeks when the finale airs.
- At this point I really don't want VP back. Brenda Strong and Patrick Duffy have a good thing going. In the pool of deranged souls they are the the couple that serves as an anchor to the audience. They are the ones not messed up, like Krystle and Blake. I don't think this chemistry should be - severely - disrupted. I can see that their relationship gets tested. And that would be good drama. But ultimately you want Bobby and Ann stay together. So a minor disruption is good but a break up would be quite devastating for the show. But you cannot use Pam just as a minor disruption. She is too important. As soon as VP/Pam appears you don't want her to remain just second. Everything else would be unsatisfactory.
If they bring Pam back, a different actress might actually be the better choice. Even if it's the best actress ever, you will be ok if that new Pam will not end up staying with Bobby, because you feel it's not the real thing.
- Great episode tonight. Brilliant editing.
I really hope there is a great pay-off to all this.
I guess Ted Shackelford and Joan Van Ark are gone?
- Maybe Pam died and Katherine assumed her identity. Katherine shot J.R. to keep him from revealing the truth?
- [quote]but then this show went write back to being the campy, plot-driven drivel it's been all along.
- Katherine isn't dead (contrary to what Wikipedia says - she only died in the infamous "Bobby dream season"). She was last seen with Pam boarding a private plane somewhere in Europe, so don't be surprised if Katherine -- and please God, let it be Morgan Brittany in the role! -- returns. Also, what good will 1/3rd ownership of Barnes Global give the Ewings? (whether through Pam or Christopher) Young Pamela apparently has no share in the company, even as president ... unless, of course, Cliff dies. (Wouldn't be a bad cliffhanger, so to speak.) Obviously the writers are, in their ever-continuing quest to ruin the original continuity of the series, assuming that Barnes Global somehow thrived and became a multinational conglomerate with J.R. in an old folks' home between '91-'12.
R276, I'm sure they *did* have a contingency plan in place for J.R.'s death, namely his "master plan" that is consuming the remainder of this season. It'd be more than a bit macabre for Hagman to actually *film* scenes in anticipation of his possible death.
The addition of Steven Weber as the governor is a good touch, but in reality a) the Texas governor wields little power and b) he'd be beholden to men much wealthier than Harris Ryland, who merely owns a trucking fleet (and pales in comparison, wealth-wise, certainly to Cliff and also definitely to the Ewings). Barnes is another story, however. The governor has no realistic goal in wanting to bring down the Ewings, though, unless Cliff has some dirt on him or something.
At this point I don't see any other resolution to the season (w/four episodes left) than Pam's return, and I suspect it'll be VP in the role (despite her persistent -- too persistent? -- denials of it). As for that ho-bag Emma, if my daddy had the shit beat out of my man, I'd be at his door, chloroform in hand, ready to knock him out and burn down the fucker's house with him in it. Plenty of ways to make it look like an "accident."
Finally, the Ewing clan "all back at Southfork" ... except Lucy, Sue Ellen, apparently Gary & Val, James Beaumont, Clayton, etc etc etc.
- [quote]At this point I really don't want VP back. Brenda Strong and Patrick Duffy have a good thing going. In the pool of deranged souls they are the the couple that serves as an anchor to the audience.
It's a soap staple to have a character killed off, their spouse/partner remarry, and then have the killed-off character return from the dead, forcing an inevitable Sophie's choice. If anything, it'd give the Bobby/Ann storyline some substance; right now it's comatose, as evidenced by the 30 seconds of screen time Ann had this week.
- [quote]Or maybe VP is coming back and Cynthia Cidre has managed to keep a total secret
I'm dating myself here, but they managed to keep the second-biggest cliffhanger of all time -- Bobby returning from the dead -- a secret by pretending (for the crew) that Duffy was shooting a soap (as in literal soap bars) commercial. Only a couple of producer/writers knew the truth before it aired, and to be extra-cautious the shower scene wasn't shot until shortly before airing (and IIRC they filmed several fake endings with the whole cast).
- Why is TNT burning off the rest of season 2 over the next two weeks? They could have ran this through May sweeps!
- [quote] She was last seen with Pam boarding a private plane somewhere in Europe,
That never happened.
- It happened, R287:
[quote]When Jenna was eventually cleared, the fugitive Katherine returned to Dallas and discovering that Bobby and Pam had reconciled at last, she drove her car at the couple, hit and killed Bobby. After the impact, her car veered out of control and she herself was also killed. Only she wasn't. Because it was only Pam's dream ... Later, after Pam disappears from the hospital and Bobby begins to search for her, he discovers that Pam was seen with a woman in a large hat boarding the Wentworth jet.
- R288 wiki is wrong
If you watched the series, that mystery woman was the nurse that was treating Pam.
Pam gave the nurse a large amount of money to contact Wentworth Industries to arrange the flight, and to take her from the hospital to the plane.
- R288 here is the scenes where the nurse confessed to Bobby what Pam wanted her to do.
- So R288 & R283 did it still happen?
- Lucy should reach out to Emma since she was raised by her grandparents instead of Gary and Val. Cynthia Cidre has so much available in the way of plotting this show, I hope she mines it all.
I thought Audrey Landers looked fantastic. I wish they would have Afton and Cliff interact though. I still can't buy Cliff as someone who would advocate killing his own daughter. Bizzare.
I hope there is more Joan Van Ark. Again, missed opportunities. Van Ark did not want Charlene Tilton on Knots to suggest that Valene was not 32 forever. Talk about scene after scene that could be played out for drama between Val, Gary and Lucy. That's Dallas, not Knots.
- Will this be renewed? It regularly gets around 3.5 million viewers a week (with the 3-day DVR) so I imagine TNT will definitely renew it, but with only two weeks left they should announce it.
I think with the right guest stars next year they could get back up to the 5 million viewer range. Judith Light and Steven Weber aren't big names and now that Hagman won't be around they can afford a good replacement for him. Who, though?
- That was a great scene with Bobby, Chris, John Ross and Sue Ellen leaving that meeting and telling the investigators to shove it up their ass!
- Interesting how R283 and R288 has vanished and refuses to admit he made a mistake. A rather GLARING mistake in the history of Dallas.
- The ratings have nose dived this season. A third season is iffy.
- [quote]The ratings have nose dived this season.
They should have kept it as a summer series.
- As far as the ratings, its harder to say with a cable network. The numbers did drop off but have stabilized over the last couple of months. Three million vieweres, and steady 25-54 demos are still good numbers for a cabler. I would be shocked if TNT didn't renew it. I agree with everyone though it should have remained a summer series.
- It would be silly for VP to turn down perhaps her last chance to have an important role, and it's the role that made her famous.
However, she will likely turn the opportunity down. Joan Rivers has said that VP was the most stupid person she ever interviewed.
Evidently, on The Tonight Show, VP told Rivers that she was the first (American?) baby born in Japan after the war, then claimed she was born in 1950.
Rivers replied that unless the entire army of occupation was on saltpeter, then she was born in 1945.
- Katherine is dead. Bobby said so a few weeks ago. Why is there a dispute over this?
- Wasn't Morgan Brittany one of the ones who was recently complaining about being discriminated against in Hollywood because she's a Republican?
- I thought that was Kelsey Grammer saying it.
Bobby mentioned that Katherine inherited a third of Barnes Global, "but she is dead." So I guess something must happened in the past 20 years. So he concluded that Pam still owns her third because she's still alive. Who would own Katherine's shares then? Did she have a husband or kids? If not I would guess that Cliff and Pam inherited her share equally.
Also, some TV producer once said if you don't see the dead body in a casket you can always bring the character back.
- [quote]I thought that was Kelsey Grammer saying it.
She's said the same thing. The fact that she's past her sell-by date has nothing to do with it, of course.
- R302 and even then....
- I seriously doubt that Katherine will be resurrected. For plot purposes she needs to be dead because of the shares issue. And Morgan Brittany wasn't exactly a powerhouse talent who the fans are clamoring to have back. I wouldn't mind a story about how she died. Maybe Cliff put a hit on her?
- all the female foils in Pam/Bobby's dynamic were bad actresses: Presley, Lois Chiles and Morgan Brittany.
Morgan practically twirled her mustache in certain scenes.
Loved it when Pam slapped her.
- [quote] Loved it when Pam slapped her.
She wasn't acting when she did the slap.
No secret that Victoria and Morgan did not get along.
- Pam slaps Katherine for lying to her about the letter to Bobby.
And for really, really bad acting.
the ghost of Seth Stone
- Whew, marathon 7 episode viewing.
I too cried like like a fool at JR's funeral.
Got a kick out of seeing Jerry Jones and Mark Cuban. Was that the real Mayor of Dallas?
Judith Light looks like shit and absolutely looks like she could be Harris's mother.
She looks old and wrinkly.
Linda Grey does look the best from all of those old folks.
Cliff Barnes has always been insane when it comes to the Ewings so in his mind if Pamela took their side then I guess she has to suffer for it.
If VP comes back it has to so she can be with Bobby. They were the solid couple from that whole family. I HATED the Priscilla Presley character because she kept them away for each other.
The Six-Million Dollar Man still looks good.
- Oops, meant she kept them away from each other.
- So which Vice-President did JR take down according to John Ross? Isn't Agnew the only one who resigned? Heh.
- Damn, I missed the first episode. I knew it was going to be a two hour show, but didn't know they bumped up the time an hour early. TNT must be trying to kill it!
- R312 The 8 pm episode will be repeated at 11:01 pm.
It was pretty good. Emma's a girl after my own heart-- benzos and cock, two of my favorite things.
- Wow, this second episode is really badly directed. POV shots of the HORSE looking down on Emma and Ann? Give me a fucking break. No wonder TNT wants to burn these off.
- Emma Bell can't act for shit.
- Ron Corning, who was let go from Good Day New York, is in the second episode as a Dallas news anchor.
- Unless they surprise the hell out of us and Victoria Principal shows up during the last scene next week, the wrap-up to this Pam story is going to be a major bust.
- Good episodes, but still too reliant on action rather than character.
I liked that scene between John Ross and Bobby in which the two commisserated over loving Pamela Barneses. That's the complex family story that soap opera does well when they take the chance to slow down and delve into symmetrical dynamics.
Jesse Metcalfe does brooding hurtful little boy well, but he would be at his best if they just put a gag in his mouth and make him walk around naked.
- [quote] Unless they surprise the hell out of us and Victoria Principal shows up during the last scene next week
Victoria Principal has already issued a statement saying she absolutely, 100% will not be appearing on Dallas, as she has effectively retired from playing the part of Pam.
- Yeah R314 I wondered whose brilliant idea that was, too.
I enjoyed the rest of the episode, though. Good ending.
- Yeah, I know r319, that's why I said it would be a helluva surprise.
- Here's a screen shot of Christopher confronting the woman he thinks is Pam in the previews. It's blurry, but it's the best I could do:
- Well, that is definitely not Victoria Principal.
- [quote]So which Vice-President did JR take down according to John Ross? Isn't Agnew the only one who resigned? Heh.
Um, considering Sue Ellen Ewing ran for Texas governor last fall, I'm assuming the geopolitical world of "Dallas" is, and always has been, faked. My recollection of the original series isn't strong enough to recall who exactly J.R. took down, but a VP wouldn't surprise me in the least. (And J.R. had tons of politicians, both in Texas and nationally, in his pocket thanks to having blackmail material in his possession.)
Also, we have no way of knowing whether the woman in R322's link is the *actual* Pam, or someone faking it. It would indeed be awesome if it turned out to be VP. That said, I'll be pissed if TNT *is*, in fact, burning off eps two at a time because they're about to cancel it.
- So, it appears "Dallas" will be back. And, as a number of you bitches have requested, it may return as summer viewing - next year, that is.
- It should only be a summer series. But I'm glad it timed out the way it did this season because we didn't have too long to wait to mourn Larry Hagman/JR Ewing.
- R322, that looks like Mary Tyler Moore.
- It's like Joan Collins in Dynasty all over again - we're all hoping they've managed to lure Vicky P. back again, but with the scarring and disfiguring from the accident, they could put anyone in the role. I just hope that Victoria does come back and reprise the role, because the Dallas re-boot has proved to be really good.
- The article at R325 says that the mystery of JR's death has become the focus of the season. That's not really accurate. I realize they had to rewrite things in a hurry but I've been surprised at how little focus has been placed on finding the person who killed JR. They've spent way more time on the mystery of what happened to Pam. Which is why it'll be really disappointing if they really weren't able to get Victoria Principal back.
- Wish Josh Henderson would come out of his many bedroom exploits barefooted instead of always in his socks.
- it's going to be such a let down if it's not Pam played by Vicky.
I'm sadly predicting a ohhh. it's Kathrine/Morgan Brittany return.
Why bother to say Katherine was dead?
- I'm thinking Katherine too. We know she has a history of forging Pams handwriting. She could be receiving money from Cliff in exchange for the third of Barnes Global. She also is known to shoot Ewings. The only catch is: The new show still needs to communicate why Katherine needs to be under cover. Is there a statute of limitation on attempted murder?
- Okay I finally got to sit down and watch both episodes from Monday night. I am now convinced Katherine assumed Pam's identity and her return (not Pam's) will be revealed on the finale. I'm not sure if Cliff is in on it or not but bringing Katherine back makes more sense and complicates the plot much more than Pam does with the Barnes Global shares becoming so important to the larger storyline now.
- Before Hagman's death changed everything, the main story was going to be the Ewings vs a combined Ryland-Barnes alliance, and Christopher was going to be searching for his mother, finding out that J.R. was somehow involved in her disappearence.
So the original story really hasn't been that affected at all - the only rewrite has been J.R.'s murder at the centre.
The most damaging rewrite has been the Sue Ellen-Gary story. Originally, we were going to see J.R. bring his old nemesis Valene back to break up a budding relationship between Sue Ellen and Gary. That makes much more sense than the bungled mess we saw in that subplot-that-went-nowhere.
- Read it and weep bitches. No VP on Monday's finale!
- According to Metcalfe, Principal's return in season 3 is "possible". It probably won't ever happen, but it does suggest that Pam is still alive.
- It's all about Pam. The show has so many interesting characters (and Elena ;-), but everybody is just talking about Pam. Don't declare her dead but put the story on the backburner and focus on the ones that are actually in the show.
- I watched Dallas as a little kid. I used to call it Dulles because that was the Cracked Magazine Parody version. I never realized how much of an empact Victoria Princpal left on people. I had no idea she was such a big part of the show. You guys seem to be clamoring for her return. Was she really all that?
- Amen, R330. Socks are hot but I wanna see Henderson's feets.
- R338, Pam was an essential character in Dallas' original concept. Even more than Bobby she was meant to be JR's counterpart and the good heart fighting evil. She was also the viewer's entry to the Ewing family. As a representative of the audience she was the character taking a look on the Ewing family from the outside. When Pam left, those features were not really substituted by any other character. (It looks like Elena is taking this part currently)
Also, for many viewers Pam's departure came hand in hand with a rapid loss of quality in the show. Stories became repetitive, old stars were replaced by new actors who lacked star quality etc. So in essence, Pam and Victoria Principal stand for the good old Dallas before it went downhill.
- r340 nails it. I could not have said it better myself.
- The only real interesting thing about the new Dallas is what the vets bring to the table. The newcomers haven't been fleshed out enough to carry the show, with the exception of perhaps John Ross and especially Pamela. And the best part of them are the Sins of the Fathers that have shaped them. Jock, Miss Ellie and Digger were a big part of the story of J.R. and Bobby and Pam, but they could also carry their own stories fuelled by their own desires and motivations. The true test of John Ross is life without his father. Ditto for Pamela.
It's season 2 and I still have no idea who or what Elena is. They've attempted to flesh her out with the introduction of her brother, but we've maybe got two scenes with her in which her mother has been included in them. What are the realpassions and conflicts of the Ramos family? They are hardly successors of the Barnes family, each member of which was fleshed out and used to their full potential. And the Rylands have been nothing but fodder for plot.
Hopefully, season 3 will be more character-driven.
- I, too, hope that the show becomes more character driven.
Elena seems to take over the role of the moral consciousness that Pamela once had. Currently her only job seems to be reminding Christopher of moral implications. It's very annoying. At the same time she is getting less and less screen time. Wouldn't be surprised if she ends up getting offed by Ryland's people after all as promised to her brother.
- Jordan Brewster looks like she needs to rip into a good ol' Texan style rib and steak sandwich.
- Tonight's the season finale.
I didn't do it...I swear!
- Oh, good point. I forgot about the whole Patrick Duffy dream thing when I asked my question.
As someone who didn't watch the original, would Bobby framing Cliff for J.R.'s murder be in character? Because it felt off to me.
Also, the first season ended with the revelation that Rebecca was really Cliff's daughter. That was a good twist and a good cliffhanger. This season ending with John Ross sleeping with Emma was a big "so what?"
- It's starting!
- R350: yes, the producers were hoping VP would come back, and they'd already burned themselves (so to speak) by killing off Bobby and then having to concoct the single most ludicrous plot contrivance in television history (an entire season was all a dream!) to write him back in. Surprisingly, the producers of the new show -- who have otherwise totally ignored continuity from the original series -- hemmed quite close to what viewers of the original series saw. Bobby finally found Pam, IIRC in Switzerland, but she looked different and denied who she was. I distinctly remember that scene ending with her saying: "How can I tell him the truth, when I only have three months to live?" And that was the last we saw of Pam. They sort-of "killed her offscreen," but in an ambiguous way that always left open the door for a miracle cure. Tonight we found out -- presumably because VP *still* refused to come back, under any circumstances -- that Pam is, in fact, dead.
I'm up in the air about the finale as a whole, however. J.R. taking his own life in the final stages of cancer seems too ... real-life for a show as outlandish as this one. OTOH framing Cliff for his "murder" is 100% J.R., which I loved. As for Bobby's rationalization in going along with it, I assume that's the main reason the producers made such a point of turning Cliff into a monster so evil he'd purposely try to kill his own daughter *and* his unborn grandbabies. I'd have no remorse about doing such a thing under the circumstances, either.
So: Elena and, presumably, her Mexican drug cartel "friend" are moving in next door to Southfork, conveniently leaving out multiple facts from the original series: 1) Southfork consists of 400,000 acres, an area that would cover an entire county (hence the use of the fictional Bradock County in the original); 2) Jock gave Ray a big chunk of Southfork; and 3) Carter McKay lived next door to Southfork, too, which played a major role in the second and final "Dallas" TV movie. Lemme see if I can clarify the ownership schemes here:
Southfork (surface land): 50% Bobby, 50% John Ross
Southfork (mineral rights): 33% Bobby, 33% Gary, 33% J.R. (and now John Ross)
Ewing Global (merger between Barnes Global & Ewing Energies): 33% Cliff (now using Elena as his proxy), 33% Pamela (shared, for the moment, with John Ross), 33% Christopher
- I figured out who the killer was; otherwise I am so disappointed in this.
They've given Elena material and motivation that this actress simply can not handle.
They may as well make this a series finale.
- [quote]They've given Elena material and motivation that this actress simply can not handle.
Agreed. Btw she may have been absent because of filming the latest "Fast & Furious" movie in Europe - it was shot around the same time as at least the first half of the "Dallas" season (up until they had to shut the show down for two months to rewrite/revamp everything after Hagman's death).
- I wonder if Pam will stay dead by the end if this season finale. I sadly think she will.
- That scene at JR's gravesite was very moving. Poor JR.
- Please God they'll get Antonio Banderas to play Joaquin.
- Can someone explain the real life backstory behind the original Pam storyline? I gather VP didn't want to come back, so the car accident and subsequent disappearance were how they wrote her out. Why wasn't Pam just killed in the accident? Were they hopeful they would eventually lure VP back? Why did they bring in the other actress for one episode once it was clear VP wasn't coming back? Couldn't they have just killed Pam off screen?
- [quote] Were they hopeful they would eventually lure VP back?
Maybe. Keep in mind that Patrick Duffy once left and said he wasn't coming back.
- R350, because they learned their lesson when they killed off Bobby!
- This served as a perfectly fine series finale. We found out why JR was killed, that Pam had been dead all along, Cliff and Harris were behind bars, John Ross/Pamela were established as the new JR/Sue Ellen and Bobby/Ann go off into the Cialis sunset. I almost hope it doesn't get renewed for a third season.
- Wasn't Bobby framing Cliff a little out of character?
- R358, very.
And I don't get Cliff blowing up his own grand kids.
He loves his daughter.
They did it to make it okay that Bobby framed Cliff. The more I think about the finale, the less I like it.
- R359, Cliff's hatred for the Ewings was so out of control that he was willing to risk the safety of Pamela and her babies. They made that perfectly clear.
As for Bobby they also made it clear he'd have to turn a little bit into JR to end the feud once and for all. And Cliff had the blood of the babies, the protege who killed himself in the courtroom and Roy already on his hands. And he allowed Christopher to think his mother had been abandoned him and remained alive rather than the truth which was that she was dead all along. So framing Cliff sounds justifiable, even to Bobby.
- Bobby talked about Pam like she was Garnett McGee.
If they couldn't get VP back then stop talking about her so much.
Had Bobby died first would JR have become like Bobby?
I don't think so.
Cliff owned Ewing Oil at one point and became a billionaire, didn't he?
At some point, he should have realized that living well is the best revenge.
- The whole show is a convoluted mess, and is so far away from the original concept of the show.
There is absolutely no continuity and things are just made up, without recognizing the history of the show.
I will stick to the DVD of the old Dallas.
- [quote]Wasn't Bobby framing Cliff a little out of character?
He was following JR's plan to get Cliff out of their lives once and for all. And he did offer him the chance to come clean about what he did do, in return for not being punished for what he didn't.
- Not for one second would I believe JR Ewing would essentially commit suicide, cancer or not.
Not for one second would I believe John Ross would gladly shake the hand of the man who killed his father.
Of course, JR's final letter to Sue Ellen, suggesting a reconciliation and asking her to dinner, makes no sense if he knew he was leaving town to die. But as others have pointed out, continuity doesn't appear to be this show's strong suit.
Terribly disappointing finale. All the hype and build-up around Pam Ewing, only to find out she was dead all along? This didn't need to be addressed at all, which leads me to think VP was being heavily courted to return and refused, but the story was already underway and had to be re-written. Over and over this season, these writers have proven they're not great with curve balls.
And the Harris resolution? Absurd. We're to believe he was set up, tried, convicted and imprisoned within the span of a 20 second montage (a montage, by the way, whose timeline was totally at odd with the other concurrent events of the show.)
- [quote]Not for one second would I believe JR Ewing would essentially commit suicide, cancer or not.
Actually, I could see him wanting to die on his own terms, and using it to serve his agenda. JR called ths shots in his own life, and in his death.
- [quote]We're to believe he was set up, tried, convicted and imprisoned within the span of a 20 second montage
He was set up and arrested and is presently in jail facing charges. No trial or conviction yet.
- And we have seemed to forget that Mama Ryland will, via Emma, come bouncing back from her medicated fog. And then Harris will hope he gets to stay in jail where he's no doubt enjoying a lot of hot Texan and Mexican ass.
- [quote]I will stick to the DVD of the old Dallas.
I'm with you. Mainly because it looks like Elena will be even more unbearable and unlikable next season. I don't want to watch a whole season of the Ramos' vs. the Ewings.
So, they did honor some of the original show's history with the revelation that Pam did die of a terminal illness in the late 1980s. I wish they could have convinced Victoria Principal to do a voice over reading the last letter that Pamela wrote for Christopher. That would have been nice closure.
I liked the switcheroo Drew did with the other motorcyclist. That dude with the bleached hair stood out in the scene at the bar, so I was glad that they actually did something with an extra who had looked so conspicuous.
- Pamela Barnes Ewing has been haunting this reboot ever since it started. They had to deal with it, and turning it into a part of the major sotryline for season 2 was a good idea. I loved how it resolved itself in the most simplest and natural terms with no DYNASTY-camp returns. VP has made it very clear she wants nothing to do with Dallas ... the producers made it very clear how they feel about VP last night.
I have noticed many viewers on this board want the days of Melrose Place or the old days of campy mid-to-late 80s soaps. This show is trying not to be that.
I loved that JR had himself killed. It was the perfect way to resolve the mystery of his death. To have a character from the past return to be revealed as the killer would have belittled the character and the actor who played him. As John Ross said, the only person who could put an end to JR was JR himself. The Masterpiece Thus, his final masterpiece was filled with real emotion and pathos; nothing over-the-top or beyond the realm of plausibility.
Loved the shows last night. The only thing I would have changed was back mid season when they showed us Emma and John Ross fucking in a car at Southfork during the funeral episode. They never should have seen them do that. That last scene last night should have been a complete surprise.
- [quote]Had Bobby died first would JR have become like Bobby?
To be fair, the series finale dealt with an alternate world where J.R. didn't exist (I forget if it was because he supposedly died young, or wasn't born at all). Gary, the eldest son without J.R. there, indeed turned out to be just like him; he broke Miss Ellie's heart and sold off Southfork to subdivision developers! Bobby, in turn, ended up like Gary (in the primary storyline, and via "Knots"): an alcoholic, loser mess.
- I think they'd have to recast Elena if they get picked up. No way can Jordana Brewster handle a storyline where she has to kick ass.
- TV Guide Magazine: When did you make the decision to kill Pam?
Cynthia Cidre: We were probably going to let [the mystery] continue for years on end. Then there were too many questions around it and a little too much drama for us after Victoria Principal's statement. (On March 1, Principal released a statement saying, "I cannot be held responsible for any choices made by producers once I left Dallas, but I do take responsibility for my decision not to risk tarnishing Bobby and Pam's love story with a desperate reappearance.) And so we decided it was best to put it to rest so that there would be no more questions.
TV Guide Magazine: What did you think of Principal's statement?
Cidre: People have to do what they have to do for themselves, but for those people who read it, I regret it kind of ruined our story for them. But it's all good. We're happy to have put that to rest and Christopher gets his shares of Barnes Global.
TV Guide Magazine: Just so we are clear, Pam is now unequivocally dead?
Cidre: Unequivocally dead.
TV Guide Magazine: And if Victoria Principal changed her mind and wanted to come back, it's now too late?
Cidre: Dead. Okay?
TV Guide Magazine: Did you ever reach out to Principal about appearing on your show as her statement suggests?
Cidre: Never. From the beginning, I needed the two boys [John Ross and Christopher] to come back because they existed in the previous show and were now the perfect age. They obviously had to have girlfriends or wives, so that's already four people. I knew Larry Hagman had to come back as J.R., and then I went online and looked at Patrick Duffy, who looked awesome. I went online and looked at Linda Gray (Sue Ellen); she looked awesome. Now that's seven people. Victoria Principal had left the show way earlier and there was a really good chance Pam was dead, so I said, 'Why can't Bobby just have a new wife?' So no one from casting ever reached out to her.
- I kinda think Cynthia Cidre is full of shit. There were reports last summer that they were *begging* Victoria Principal to come back. Even Patrick Duffy said he'd spoken to her about it. While I'm fine with the decision to kill her off, I think it's silly to act like they never even considered asking her to come back.
- "...and then I went online and looked at Patrick Duffy, who looked awesome. I went online and looked at Linda Gray (Sue Ellen); she looked awesome."
I think Victoria Principal has a bit of Cidre's backhand on her face.
- The implication is that Victoria Principal looked like shit, right? Right.
- I'm fine with the Pam story having ended. But as they used to say in old soap land: If you haven't seen the dead body yourself, she is not dead.
Hopefully they don't turn Elena into a villain. I just don't care enough for her or the actress. And the change of attitude would come too sudden. I don't buy it. The revelation around J. R. 's murder was awesome. But the cliffhanger with John Ross and Emma and with Elena was not interesting at all. Season 3 better opens with a bang, in form of a complete new story line.
- [quote]Of course, JR's final letter to Sue Ellen, suggesting a reconciliation and asking her to dinner, makes no sense if he knew he was leaving town to die. But as others have pointed out, continuity doesn't appear to be this show's strong suit.
I can handwave this. It's supposed to be be a secret that JR arranged his own death -- he only wanted Bobby, John Ross and Christopher to know about it. So I can believe he wrote Sue Ellen the letter so she would always think "JR really loved me."
- [quote]I went online and looked at Patrick Duffy, who looked awesome. I went online and looked at Linda Gray (Sue Ellen); she looked awesome.
There's a glimpse into the intelligence that goes into writing this show.
Though I have to admit there's something to it. Seeing other old Dallas actors who haven't kept up their looks was depressing.
- You've got to think outside literalization: J.R.'s letter to Sue Ellen fit - instead of telling her what he was really doing (hey babe, I'm killing myself because I have cancer), he left her on a note of bitterweet endearance, an indication of how he really felt about her, that their love would live on forever even when one of them was gone. It was a very sweet thing for him to do. Even after all they had been through, he was still protective of her and wanted her to see him as her romantic hero.
Hopefully, however, we swill see Sue Ellen stumble upon the truth about his death in season 3.
And I think the executive producer is covering her tracks a bit too on the subject of VP - the show has been after VP since its inception. VP's very public act of cutting all ties to Pam Ewing and Dallas was probably considered an "FU" to the very close-knit Dallas group. Cidre is now making it look like VP hasnot been and never will be needed. Basically, it's an "FU" back to VP.
And I don't think Patrick Duffy felt any hesitation in playing it as it was written: that Bobby mourned Pam a long time ago and has moved on with Ann.
Other than Jenna, I can't imagine who else could show up from the past. There really isn't anyone else, unless they wanted to reunite Sue Ellen with Dusty Farlow. There is a huge branch of the third generation that hasn't been dealt with (Bobby's son with Jenna; Jenna's daughter Charlie; Cally's child with J.R.; and perhaps James Beaumont, although I suspect the new show doesn't want to acknowledge him as nothing was mentioned during the funeral or J.R.'s will - and quite frankly, I couldn't blame them).
I am surprised the TV GUIDE interviewer didn't ask about the strange Shackelford and Van Ark subplot - or lack of it. Are Valene and Gary still in Dallas? Were they ever or was it just a weird drunken dream of Sue Ellen's?
- If Cidre never contacted VP, then VPs issuing a press release to shoot down any Pam Ewing resurrection rumors makes absolutely no sense.
- Yeah, the Valene/Gary storyline seemed awfully truncated.
I can see James Beaumont actually teaming up with Elena to fight the Ewings. And I'd love to see Joanna Lumley as James' very British mother. Anybody who saw Mistresses on BBC America knows she can handle soapy goodness just as well as she can handle comedy.
- The “Dallas” reboot ended with a whimper, an in joke about Victoria Principal and the answer to who killed JR Ewing. Principal said some time ago she would not return to “Dallas” and she meant it. But was she asked at all? I doubt it. As one “Dallas”-Lorimar former insider said to me last night: “They [the show] always hated her. Why? Because she told them–” he made gesture meaning, “f- off.” Indeed, Principal left “Dallas” at the height of her popularity and the show’s. Larry Hagman, the producers, and the cast did not mind seeing her go. When I wrote a piece in 1991 about the end of the real “Dallas” all I heard from the supporting cast were horror stories about Principal.
In last night’s finale, it was revealed that Pam Ewing had died of cancer 24 years ago. The in joke? The man who was her “husband” was a plastic surgeon. Principal was married for years in a tempestuous union with Hollywood cutter Dr. Harry Glassman. So that was their nod to Principal, who may– oh — cut off her to spite her face all those years ago.
And where does “Dallas” go from here? I guess TNT could renew it. I don’t see why, though. With Hagman gone, the stories are wrapped up. There’s no compelling reason to keep going. This “Dallas” was fun, but the real story of the Ewings is over. If it does come back, they’re going to have inject some humor and stop shooting the show like it’s a skyscraper drama mixed with “Blade Runner.”
Oh, who killed JR? Sadly, it doesn’t matter.
- Oops, fixed the link.
- I agree, R383. The more I think about it the more I'd like this to have been the series finale. JR laid to rest, his portrait hung at Ewing Global, Bobby and Ann walking contentedly out of frame and John Ross using his hot body to get what he wants.
- It's a shame people wanted high camp for the resolution of J.R.'s "murder" and this Pam Ewing story. This version of Dallas is trying to be in league with some of cable's edgier dramas. They showed J.R. depressed in a nursing home, Cliff Barnes twisted by bitterness and resentment, Bobby finding love a second time around after a fairytale fantasy with Pam, but alot of people want the campy soapyness of the late 80s. This Dallas is actually more in keeping with the earlier Dallas before it soared to international stardom and parodied itself as a reflection of Reagen-era excessiveness and extravaganza. I love the fact that these stories were resolved on an "earthy" more domestic note. It makes the situations much more realistic.
- Whoever wrote that Showbiz 411 article obviously never watched the original. The part about Pam and the plastic surgeon was established history in Dallas 1.0 I don't think any slight to VP was intended by that. And it hardly went out on a whimper. Was he watching the same show I was?
- As a viewer, I don't care that VP was a nightmare to work with.
The show doesn't need to return to camp, inflated shoulder pads and big hair -- but I would like to see my favorite characters.
One of my favorite DALLAS episodes was when Pam thought she'd found her mother; Rebecca denied it and the next night Pam and Bobby and Rebecca and her husband (Herbert, I believe) ran into each other at a political benefit Cliff was at.
Pam made one final nudge to find out if this was her mother by pointing out Cliff and gauging her reaction.
Later, Pam looked over and saw that Rebecca and Herbert had left...why?
Just their early exit was SOOO powerful.
Then, at the end of the show there was a nice scene between VP and Priscilla Pointer.
Those are the moments I'd like to see on this new Dallas.
Sadly, Bobby turning into JR, Cliff rotting in a prison for something he didn't do and the passionless Elena being set up as the next big thing ain't cutting it.
- There were lots of situations in the new show where you could have had such moments too. But the producers chose not to explore them anymore. Not even sure that's the producers' fault. Might as well be TNT that wants the testosterone keep flowing to keep the show in line with its other men targeting shows. Personally I think that's a mistake because it's this kind of scene that gets characters some depth. Maybe I'm too old by now and just not keeping up with modern story telling in drama shows.
- R381, alas Dallas has very little soapy goodness these days.
Sure, the high camp of the '80s can't -- and shouldn't -- be brought back, but I think Victoria Grayson has taught us that nighttime soaps can still have SOME fun.
Sadly, DALLAS has nothing right now.
I'm fine with the series ending. I am not looking forward to Elena's half-passionate feud with the Ewings.
I get that they couldn't get VP back; and who knows? Maybe they even tried?
But more appearances by the old guard -- Donna, Ray, for example -- would have been welcome in VP's absence.
The lack of returning vets is one thing, but I have very little interest in the new clan. Jesse is, at best, passable as Christopher. (He's not as bad as I thought he'd be but he's horribly miscast. The dude is hot, but he simply cannot act.)
Elena is too sedate.
I do like Julie G. as Pamela Rebecca.
- ... and I like Josh Henderson in this role. He really grew into it. I'd even say he and his character was only able to grow because J. R. was not holding him back anymore. Nobody was allowed to be bad-der than JR. Now John Ross can do whatever he wants to and doesn't have to be the loser under-dog anymore.
No need for some half-baked cameos of old cast members. The young ones can hold their own if Cidre lets them grow as characters. Hasting through lots of plot doesn't make me relate to them. Character driven plots do though. More of that.
- Notice the producer didn't say he looked up the actor who plays Cliff and say he looks hot. He's got a face that would scare small children...
- I never considered Ken Kercheval a looker. Not even in his younger days.
- R392, check out the first season; he had something.
- In the early years, Kercheval was the hot time bomb of the show. And he was Kennedyesque in his looks, which added to the political figure he cut.
By the end of the show's run, KK was reduced to a bumbling rambling old coot.
- I missed most of this season because I forgot when the show was on. One thing I haven't liked about ithe reboot was that it was missing the grand family feel. I remember in the original they used to all sit around bickering in the living room while having pre dinner drinks. There is something to that. From what I saw, mainly the first season, the family was disjointed. JR as always was great though.
- Just got renewed for Season 3.
- Renew link -
- It's so great to know that TNT has renewed Jessie Metcalfe's big titties for a third season!
- They also got another full 15 episode order for next year which means TNT still has great faith in this.
- Victoria (I never had any plastic surgery) Principal looks like a stick with a head on it, a lollipop head.