- Loves me some Connie!
- just flipped to the channel...thank you
- She's a little more playful in this one, but is still playing a very unsympathetic character, with her patened dyky overtones.
- Flinging Sandra Dee into a Christmas tree was her best scene ever.
- i thought i was the only one who caught the overtones...she was kind of hot....
- If you're watching this Boris Karloff thing, in those scenes with the alcoholic nurse, those were more than just lez overtones. When she overpowered the nurse and had her against the wall, she looked like she wanted to devour the poor girl.
- Wasn't she on a soap, years ago, as the quintisential sour, older woman ? Used to flip channels and think " That actress has to be a lesbian.She had such a hard look/hard edge. Guess I was right. Still, love her.
- Connie Ford was very sexy and had a magnetic screen presence - not in an in-your-face sexpot way, obviously, but a more dynamic masculine/feminine archetype-breaking sexuality that hasn't been replicated yet.
- R7, you try working with Robin Strasser for years, followed by Victoria Wyndham. Let's see how you'd look.
- She was like that on several episodes of "Perry Mason" also. I wonder if she a cold, bitter bitch in real life as well?
- perfectly stated (8). I would describe Alexis Smith the same way...
- I loved Ada. She was the only person in that town who treated me like a human being sometimes.
- Here she is, toting a heavy load as she makes a scene work while she acts opposite a non-actress.
And projecting as though microphones hadn't been invented.
And yet she decided to be subtle when stricken at the end.
- Nicely played, OP!
- [r4], it completely caught Sandra Dee by surprise. Constance Ford told me that.
People on DL have called her a mean, old drunk. She seemed very kind, thoughtful and introspective when I talked to her. She asked where I lived and was familiar with the area.
Her role in an early Alfred Hitchock episode, the one where women are terrorized by a serial killer, was very good.
For an actress mostly confined to a small kitchen set on Another World, a dish towel perpetually slung over her shoulder, she brought life to an otherwise thankless role.
- Constance Ford was also very good in a 1961 episode of Naked City that was shown a few months ago on ME TV. She played a bored, spoiled rich lady who had difficulty relating to her child.
- She wasn't all that.
- She gave a thunderous acting performance in the old Twilight Zone episode "Uncle Simon." I loved the way she delivered her line to her dying uncle, "I am no longer sowing......NOW I'M GOING TO REAP!!!!"
- I loved seeing two lesbian queens, Reta Shaw and Connie Ford, go at each other in that Hitchcock episode.
- Reta looked like she wanted gobble Connie up.
- Is it true she once said "We'll isn't that a kick in the cunt?"
- I caught that Naked City episode. Series regular Harry Bellaver would later play her husband on AW.
- the Alfred Hitchcock Presents ep. is called "The Creeper" and she's good in it.
She's in "Rome Adventure" with Suzanne Pleshette looking good and playing a bookstore owner.
After a really long and drawn out day on AW she supposedly put her arm around Linda Dano and as they walked off the set she said, "That was a kick in the cunt".
- I thought Reta Shaw was some old lady they dredged up to play Mrs. Muir's housekeeper? Then again, until recently I thought Joan Blondell had no "career" aside from Here Come the Brides.
- I used to LIVE for Iris/Ada scenes. Beverlee McKinsey and Connie Ford...divine.
- Reta was in both "Pollyanna" and "Mary Poppins". (Her role in "Poppins" was "The Domestic"!) She was also on just about every TV series in the '50s, '60s, and '70s.
- You can tell Ford was intense actress from the way she hissed at uncle Simon (in the TZ), "WHY do good men die and beasts like you keep living? WHY???"
- Beverlee McKinsey as Iris ... part of my life as a Junior Homo. I could've SWORN her son and Rachel's were a couple!
- Connie looking tough in "House of Women"
- I think in the 80s & 90s she lived in Hell's Kitchen (before it got trendy). A friend saw her at Mike's Grill on 10th Ave., which was a cool actor-musician hangout, now a tired Egyptian restaurant. We need another Mike's people!!
- Watched CLAUDELLE INGLISH a few weeks ago, and she and Arthur Kennedy managed to give real performances in an otherwise drab, mediocre movie.
- Whose snatch did she used to lap on?
- If only this thread were about the sometimes electrifying Constance McCashin!
- I already have a thread, Joanie!
- Don't forget Connie's on Perry Mason tonight, 1/29/13, ME-TV, 11:30 PM Eastern.
- I think she'd rather be on Della Street, r36.
- Don't forget I sang and did a soft-show in "The Pajama Game," bitches!
- Who among the dyke set of Hollywood was Reta Shaw's scissor sister?
- The shorter list would be who wasn't, r39.
- Irene Dailey was a lez too, right?
- Fabulous actress. Someone should create a website for her. Whoever was the executor of her estate dropped the ball. Her photo isn't even up on IMDb. Her manager was someone named Murray Schapiro, according to her NY Times obit.
- Connie at 18, as a model.
- some interesting shots
- God I remember being small & it seemed she was always on the damn TV. Doling out advice to her daughter. She had a tv husband who I think was a cop who got killed or something. My mother was glued to that show daily at 2pm.
- R37 Or Pussy Blvd.
- [quote] God I remember being small & it seemed she was always on the damn TV. Doling out advice to her daughter. She had a tv husband who I think was a cop who got killed or something. My mother was glued to that show daily at 2pm.
Yep, Dolph Sweet played her cop husband, before he went on to Gimme A Break.
Ada was always getting Rachel out of trouble.
- Connie was very much in touch with her masculine side, though she could also be quite feminine. I find her fascinating to watch.
- I only remember her in several "Perry Mason" episodes, and as the frigid overbearing mother in "A Summer Place". But I am always directing most of my attention, as well as my lust, toward the tall young blonde male actor when I see that on TV. She played a sympathetic character, and a very demanding role, in one of my favorite "Perry Mason" episodes. Her character had a split personality, and you are almost sure that her alter-ego is the killer until there is a courtroom confession by someone else.
- I remember when Gil died. She walked into the living room or the kitchen or something like that and yelled out "Gil! No!!!!" He was dead of a heart attack or something. It all happened onscreen.
Or was that her second husband Ernie? Or her forth husband Charlie?
- A "Perry Mason" episode is coming on MeTV as I write this, and I recognize it as the one where Constance Ford plays a widow with a sorry free-loading brother, he takes a foster child to get a check from the state. At the end of the episode, she runs off the lazy brother and adopts the little boy.
- Crap, I have Time Warner in NYC and the MeTV signal is scrambled tonight. Is this happening for anyone else? I really wanted to see this episode.
- I didn't watch AW much, really just a bit in the 80s, but I loved when Ada was on. I think "A Summer Place" is the only other thing I saw her in...would love to know more about her. Did she have a longtime companion?
- Connie's niece, screenwriter Katie Ford, is also a lesbian.
- [quote]I remember when Gil died. She walked into the living room or the kitchen or something like that and yelled out "Gil! No!!!!"
Are you sure it wasn't "Damn! Damn! Damn!" ?
- She was the voice of reason in Bay City.
- At least three of her costars wound up on Three's Company: Audra Lindley, Ann Wedgeworth, and Jordan Charney.
- That would have been cool if Connie Ford played the shoot-from-the-hip old neighbour who lived upstairs from Jack, Janet and Chrissy.
After a wacky spell with a good-intentioned but clumsy Jack over him helping her with her groceries which ends with her telling him to "Back off!", she gives Chrissy some advice on how to deal with her lecherous boss at work:
"The next time he tries to grab you around the water fountain, sweetie, just cut 'em off!"
Chrissy's eyes bulge out underneath her overgrown bangs.
"His hands, sweetheart. I meant his hands."
Chrissy snorts and breaks into a convulsion of laughter while Connie gives her a double take and rolls her eyes.
"You're nuts, you know that?" she says ... the audience claps while Connie makes her exit.
- 51, just saw that episode last night. The kid was Billy Mumy, by the way. Saw Constance and thought she looked so familiar but was really struck by her presence. Then realized she has been in a lot of things over the years and was really good. I guess her several recent appearances on TV Land sparked this conversation but she deserves it!
- Didn't Susan Flannery turn into Constance Ford 2.0?
- R51 R59 Did you notice an almost unrecognizable Diane Ladd as the blonde?
- Loved it when wealthy Iris made a royal visit to Ada's simple little kitchen (for some reason - maybe something to do with Clarice's baby?) and she wiped one of the kitchen chairs with a kleenex before she sat her royal ass down on it.
Soaps used to be so simple.
- R62, that sounds just like when Donna Love spent
Christmas in Ada's old kitchen, then inhabited by the blue-collar McKinnon family.
- The Loves spent time in that fucking house on Bowman Street. No shit! Ain't life a kick in the cunt.
- Here's the same clip, time-marked to start at Donna's entrance
- Who the fuck cares about Donna? This is MY fucking thread.
- Love the way Connie keeps sneaking peeks at the cue cards in the clip at r13.
- r60 Susan Flannery may have gone the big, dykey route that Connie did. But we'll never really known if Susan can be Connie 2.0 until she does scene after scene with a dish towel on her shoulder.
- Wow, the Ada dies clips on AW are sad.
Forgot how booming her voice was!
- Ben McKinnon was hot. He had a nice big bulge when he wore jeans. Sorry to hijack your thread, Connie- do we know what happened to the actor who played Ben?
- Just another day in Ada's kitchen (beginning of clip):
(British soaps never lost this domestic aspect of storytelling; American soaps kicked such charming simplicity to the curb a long time ago)
- Constance Ford sounds like it should be a car dealership in Missouri.
- what a waste it was bringing Jacquie Courtney back...she was relegated to supporting cast.
It was great seeing her and Irene Dailey as Aunt Liz in the Matthews house.
Had Doug Marland come back to that show he would have expanded that family -- Russ, Pat...others would have been added.
There's so much about old soaps that I miss; big strong families, bad guys who'd pay for their crimes and heroes and heroines you'd root for.
- Originally, the show wanted Beverlee McKinsey back in 84 in time for the anniversary, but McKinsey rejected all their countless offers. They then contacted Jacquie Courtney at the last minute and hoped it would help hype the show. It did bring some good publicity, but they never knew what to do with Alice because they never planned on having her back in the first place. She was a supporting character in Sally and Caitlin's story, she briefly dated Felicia's ex-husband Carl Hutchins, and then ended up in a very uninspired romance with Mark Singleton. Their attempts to give her anything to do were less than enthusiastic. Within a year, she was gone.
It waa a shame because there was alot to do with her. But it was nice seeing her again - and those penultimate moments of Matthews moments before they were to be shelved forever.
Yes, I would have LOVED to see what Marland would have done with AW. Ada, Liz, Pat, Alice, Rachel ... they were the type of women he loved to write for.
- R60, I kind of see what you mean, but I always hated Stephanie and always loved Ada. B&B was unwatchable. AW was unmissable (for me, before it got really bad).
- Connie and Beverlee McKinsey would have been awesome together on a sitcom.
- Was Pete Lemay still headwriter for the episodes in posts R63 and R71?
- r77, no Lemay was long-gone by then.
- Doug Marland wrote under Pete Lemay during AW. Here's a wonderful interview with Lemay, which is out of this world (no pun intended). I especially like how Lemay's wife describes waking up in the early morning hearing the typewriter clicking above her head:
- I seem to remember reading in a Lemay interview that around 1988 when Lemay was originally slated to return as HW that Beverlee McKinsey was interested at that time. Her GL contract was ending and she was game, but after Lemay had written her return into long term story either P&G or the executives at NBC said no, so she stayed at GL.
They asked Bev again in 1998 - it was at the top of Chris Goutman's wish list - but by then she was having health issues and apparently even a short story arc wasn't possible. And probably a good thing, since the show was such a muddled mess by then it was almost impossible to save.
- Beverlee McKinsey was taken for granted by audiences. Susan Lucci was getting all the mainstream attention meanwhile the true genius of the format was doing her thing and was so synonymous with it that audiences assumed she would ALWAYS be there. She was never, ever given her due and this has got to be rectified. They need to erect a damn statue of Beverlee in Brooklyn. Where the hell are all those 70s episodes, surely they weren't destroyed? Something has got to be done for her legacy. She deserves a revival.
- R81 Unfortunately most of AW's episodes from the 70s are gone. P&G "wiped" their tapes after using them to record over them. Some were saved but the contents of a storage facility in NY that did hold that older material was allegedly dumped into the river.
Most intact episodes of P&G shows - any of them - are from 1981 or after.
- R81 And I completely, totally agree. I know us queens say this all the time, but just to be clear:
It is an ABSOLUTE TRAVESTY that Beverlee McKinsey was never recognized for her work. TRAVESTY.
She should get special recognition at the next Daytime Emmys, or have an award named in her honor, or something.
- Oh my god r82, that is tragic. That's no different from Nazis burning great literature.
- Bev not coming back was a huge missed opportunity for AW (especially since it was Lemay at the writing helm.) Lemay totally refocused the show in the short time he was there -- he reignited the Frame feud and wrote some great stuff for Sharlene and Rachel, especially. Bev back as Iris would have been dynamite. It was such a disappointment when Rachel opened the door, said "Iris!" ... and we saw Carmen Duncan's face.
- [quote]It is an ABSOLUTE TRAVESTY that Beverlee McKinsey was never recognized for her work. TRAVESTY.
I'm going to Mary! myself by agreeing with you. McKinsey was the single best actress ever to grace the soap medium.
- R84 I also think that it eclipses the hunger situation in Somolia!
[quote] McKinsey was the single best actress ever to grace the soap medium.
Fuck that, she was far better than most film and nighttime actresses too!
She could do more with a fucking LOOK than most of those whores on Desperate Housewives could do with a monologue.
(Then again, those bitches were so Botoxed they only had one facial expression...)
- r87, I know - I just way way overboard with the comparison to Nazi book burnings. I just meant in the mindless actions of disposing something without deeper consideration, great things can be lost forever.
Somebody once said something that stays with me - that Beverlee was like a hybrid of Bette Davis and Marilyn Monroe and transcended even their talents. I always thought that was interesting!!!
- Beverlee would have been sublime playing the Glenn Close role in Dangerous Liaisons.
- I took it as a joke, R84/R88 - no worries. I wasn't 100% serious but yes, I think she's been ignored and should be recognized.
- Harding Lemay said that Beverlee had the ability to memorize not only her own lines but the other actor's lines as well!!!
- I loved her as both Iris and Alexandra.
THE most flawless scenes of Beverlee's reign as Alex are the scenes where she read Roger the riot act at the country club.
This was a culmination of two years of story where Roger tricked Alex and had an affair with Mindy. Beverlee hit every possible emotion in these scenes.
There are four parts. This is part one. Check them out.
- Bev was great, but strangley sexless. I liked her better as Iris, especially with Vivian and when she was married to the indulgent Brian Bancroft. She had one scene where she chewed Susan Keith's Cecile before leaving for TEXAS, that was just brilliant.
- R74 you are full of it. Bev signed with GL in Nov 1983, starting airing in Feb 84 and Jacquie was contacted the MINUTE ABC let her go from OLTL in Sept 1983. The 20th annviersary would be a bigger deal with the return of Alice, the 70's all time soap heroine. I would LOVE to have seen both Iris and Alice back at the same time, but you are all wet with your facts.
- R13, Nancy held her own given the powerhouse she was up against in that scene.
Not everyone can do that.
- I heard one of Beverlee's co-stars from GL was/is campaigning for her to get a posthomous Lifetime Achievement Award at this year's Daytime Emmys.
If you youtube Guiding Light Mary 27, 1988 you can see Beverlee and Chris Bernau's final scene. (It's a whole show, but go towards the end when Alex and Alan confront each other. I think this was during the writers' strike, but the dialogue is rich, witty and tight.)
Her trouncing Roger at the Country Club in 1991 was also a very memorable moment.
- [quote] I heard one of Beverlee's co-stars from GL was/is campaigning for her to get a posthomous Lifetime Achievement Award at this year's Daytime Emmys.
Let's hope it's televised.
- I can accept it on her behalf.
- Carmen was a talented enough actress, to be sure.
But it made as much sense to me that they recast Iris with an Australian woman....as it did when they recast Alexandra with Joan Collins. (Although that, too, was interesting.)
- How did this turn into the Beverlee McKinsey thread?
- Enough Beverlee McKinsey. Start your own thread. THIS one is about Connie Ford.
- R101 Yeah. You can call it Irisandra.
- Good grief, folks. Get over it.
Be glad this thread hasn't been deleted like all the others.
- Well. Isn't all [bold]this[/bold] just a kick in the cunt!
- Connie doesn't share with anyone, bitches!
- Connie's been DEAD for twenty YEARS, bitches!
- It seems the WM doesn't allow a flood of soap-related threads; one usually survives. We are left with dealing with anything soap related on one thread. Sorry, but as soap fans, surely we can respect one another?
- McKinsey did not want to return to AW at all. They kept offering over the years, but she had no intention of ever playing Iris again. Lemay wanted her back when he was rehired in '87 and plotted out the Iris comeback story in his bible, but McKinsey didn't even consider a return. McKinsey had a sweet contract deal over at GL - she worked when she wanted to, had that famous vacation clause, she wasnt the star of the show but treated like royalty by CBS and P&G. She was smart lady. And it's a good thing she didn't return in '87, what with the fiasco that Lemay's return turned out to be.
I remember at the time Iris was returning to Bay City, McKinsey was on one of her vacations and Alexandra was missing after a plane crash in San Rios. Gossip mags were talking about how McKinsey was in the midst of contract negotiations and speculating whether she was going to return; Lemay's rehiring over at AW added fuel to the rumours that Iris (and McKinsey) may return to Bay City. There are some who think McKinsey's people used NBC's interest in her to play hardball with CBS Daytime Programming.
And yes, NBC did ask McKinsey to return to AW in 1984 to bring some publicity to AW's 20th anniversary, but McKinsey turned them down and took the GL job offer instead. They then asked Jacquie Courtney to return. It was clear they had no idea what to do with Alice - they just wanted a big name.
The thing to keep in mind about McKinsey is she knew how to go out on top. She wanted to leave AW in 1980 and move on to other things, but they lured her a once-in-alifetime-deal any actor would grab at with a whole new hour-long soap opera in which she would receive top billing. She did it purely for the money. The experience was ungratifying, and she left after a year ostensibly before the ship sank.
Years later, she did something similar with GL when she grew increasingly unhappy with management. She checkmated the executive producer in a growing dispute and walked out with her head held high. Instead of overstaying her welcome in all the shows she was on, she left while her characters were still on top. And when she said it was over, it was over. McKinsey never looked back. She said goodbye to AW and never went back. Ditto for GL.
Gossip on another recently deleted thread claimed her long-standing feud with Victoria Wyndham prevented her from ever considering a return to AW. That may have played a factor in her decisions over the years, but keep in mind that she was also a very smart lady who preferred to move forward. I think the prospect of playing Iris again held no desire for McKinsey. When Alexandra started acting like a neurotic scheming bitch near the end of McKinsey's run, McKinsey was very vocal about her unhappiness with the turn Alex was taking. She preferred Alex as the smart savvy businesswoman, the lioness-who-fought-for-her family matriarch, the woman who took no prisoners, the high society daughter who also knew how to get dirty and have fun. The constantly unhappy troublemaker that Alex became was essentially an older Iris. It felt like years of developing a whole other character had come to an end.
- Interview with Harding LeMay:
[quote]We Love Soaps: Did you ever get directives to use simpler language, or were you ever cautioned not to allude to literature?
Harding Lemay: No, and I didn’t do it much because I don’t like that in writing particularly, unless you’re writing about literature. I think it’s the author showing off, not the character. I’m not going to talk about Proust as a character, only a writer would do that. But I was also taught a great lesson the first month I was at ANOTHER WORLD by Connie Ford, who played Ada. I had written a final tag speech in one of the crucial scenes. And when I got to the rehearsal, Connie cut the entire speech and did just one line from it. Now she was a wonderful actress, a very laconic actress, and didn’t need a lot of language. And I realized something: you write to what the actor does. And I never overwrote a scene for her again.
I could write anything for Beverlee McKinsey, she could use language any way you wanted her to. Or Irene Dailey [Liz Matthews]. Or Annie Meachum [Louise Brooks]. And Douglass Watson. But Connie taught me how to write for television. On that one day, she also read a line I had written. She knew I was in the control booth, and looked right in the camera and said, “Whatever the fuck that means.”
- Camille Paglia on Beverlee's passing:
[quote]Now for something completely different. I was surprised and impressed to see the attention given by the New York Times to the death of Beverlee McKinsey, a soap opera star whose prime period is long gone. Plaudits to the obit department! McKinsey’s portrayal of bitchy supersocialite Iris Carrington in “Another World” (1970-79) gave me endless pleasure. Those were the glory days of TV soaps — now a dying form, narcotized by corporate blandness.
McKinsey played Iris like Oscar Wilde’s imperious Lady Bracknell crossed with ice-blond Grace Kelly. But her low, velvety voice more resembled Joan Greenwood’s as Gwendolen Fairfax (Lady Bracknell’s daughter) in the Anthony Asquith film of “The Importance of Being Earnest.” In those pre-VCR years, I had to scribble down soap-opera dialogue as fast as I could. I was then at my first teaching job at Bennington College, which I was regularly disrupting with my obnoxiously militant Amazon feminism. (I gave a rueful account of those hectic years to Philip Davis for his superb recent biography of Bernard Malamud.) McKinsey as Iris Carrington clearly prefigured Joan Collins’ ruthless, glamorous Alexis Carrington Colby in the blockbuster prime-time soap “Dynasty,” in the 1980s. Both McKinsey and Collins portrayed and embodied an important form of female power that I fiercely felt was excluded or libeled by Second Wave feminism.
Here are some McKinsey highlights from my Bennington notebooks for 1975-76:
As her father’s goody-goody wife Rachel lies in critical condition on the verge of losing her baby, rich and idle Iris Carrington causes trouble in the hallway outside the hospital room: “Really–Rachel’s servants are becoming as rude she is.”
Iris on long-distance telephone: “Oh, Millicent, I know you’re usually in Barcelona in June, but surely my wedding takes precedence over that!”
Iris’ maid Louise to a plant she is watering: “I know Mrs. Carrington is in an irritable mood this morning, but I hope you will cheer her up.”
Iris (entering): “Are you discussing ME with that monstrosity?”
Loretta (Iris’ New York sophisticate friend): “I’ll never forget how you cheered me up after my divorce at your villa in Saint-Tropez.”
Iris (evenly): “I don’t have a villa at Saint-Tropez.”
Loretta: “You don’t?”
Iris (very evenly): “I hate Saint-Tropez.”
Loretta (brightly): “It must have been Olive’s villa!”
Two years later, while attending a Lily Tomlin show in New York with my friend Stephen Feld, I spotted the actress who had briefly played Loretta on “Another World” and had acted in that very scene. I leaned over the hapless two patrons sitting between us and (to her astonishment) enthusiastically recited both parts of the Saint-Tropez dialogue.
- Iris & Vivian, never a dull moment between these two:
- Re: Camille Paglia's comment....
I wrote the NYT maybe a day or two after Beverlee's death had been announced. Nothing about Bev had been printed at that time. I suggested they run an obit for her as she had lived in NYC and performed in four NYC based soaps over the years.
I got a response saying thanks for the suggestion, and that they would consider the tip. The NYT ran an obit not long after.
I would imagine I was not the only person that contacted them, but I always thought it would be nice if my email had any effect in their choice to run the obit.
I also wrote them for Paul Rauch, for many of the same reasons. They never did run an obit for Paul, though.
- [quote]And it's a good thing she didn't return in '87, what with the fiasco that Lemay's return turned out to be.[/quote]
R108, "fiasco"? Please elaborate. Was Lemay writing in 1988 (when I started watching)?
R111, thanks for the clip. I never got to see Beverlee as Iris, and Vivien-with-an-E is always fun.
- Lemay never really got to return in 1988. He was hired again - a shocker, since he'd shit all over P&G in his book about AW - and wrote some long term story and a few shows...
...and then the 1988 writers strike hit. When it was done, Lemay was gone and Donna Swajeski was head writer.
Rumor has it that much of Swajeski's story for her first year or so - which was the best story AW had in a while - was actually Lemay's work. Certainly he played a role in the resurgence of the Frame family.
- FUCK OFF, BEV WORSHIPPING CUNTS. THIS IS MY FUCKING THREAD! Shit, you queens worship that bleach blond cunt like the last footlong cock at a truck stop john. GET THE FUCKING FOCUS BACK AND ME AND MY ELECTRIFYING DYKINESS. Dumb fucking cunts.
Connie, in a demure mood this morning
- R114, the day I started watching, Josie was being comforted by Sharlene, who told her she was "every bit as good as any of the Corys" after Josie got caught faking her identity while chatting with Matthew on a teen chat line. It was such a sweet story, I had to tune in tomorrow. I've always thought Lemay wrote that. It aired in the summer of '88.
- Solid plastic.
- Lemay was set to take over as headwriter in spring 1988 when the writers strike hit.
When the strike was over in September, he did officially write the show for 4-6 weeks, then abruptly left. It's rumored he couldn't deal with the constant network interference, something he rarely had to deal with in the 1970s.
After that, Donna Swajeski, a network exec who had served as headwriter during the stike, took over. She was the headwriter for about four years, leaving in fall 1992.
It's said that most of what Swajeski wrote was based on Lemay's story projections. Lemay brought back Iris, brought back much of the Frame family, started bringing back the Matthews family.
- r118, it really didn't matter who was writing the show. The ratings would never have budged anyway. Viewers departed the show in droves 9-10 years earlier and were not going to return with a resurgence of Matthews and Frame families. I'm sure their return gave long-time faithful viewers some joy, but nothing the show could've done would ever have gotten those ratings up. There was a slight blip around '84-'85 with Sally and Catlin, but that was the extent of it. The show was essentially on life support for the last 15 years of its life.
- She's so damn loud in that clip from the first page. Susan Flannery's Stephanie really is Ada 2.0 but without the warmth.
- Have there been any other bulldyke matriarchs in daytime over the years besides Ada and Steph? Maybe Pat or Mo on EastEnders, but anyone on the US shows?
- [quote] The show was essentially on life support for the last 15 years of its life.
AW was also just mismanaged from the time Rauch left forward.
For its last 15 years, especially the last decade, it would get a new head writer or new producer every 12 to 18 months. And then those people would want to do their own thing, change characters, etc.
By the end it was almost unrecognizable.
I know many people (me included) hated what Chris Goutman did to ATWT but some of his moves in the last year of AW were good. Had he been there a year or two earlier it might have made a difference.
- [quote] Have there been any other bulldyke matriarchs in daytime over the years besides Ada and Steph?
Geraldine Whitney on Edge of Night. Her portrayer, Lois Kibbee, was a lesbian.
Jeanne Cooper is at least an honorary bull dyke. She's a rough bitch.
And Ruby on GH came off as somewhat bull dykish - as did Norma Connolly who played her.
- Geraldine Whitney, Aunt Ruby and Katherine Chancellor were/are all certainly formidible matriarchs.
But none of them are in the bulldyke category that Ada and Stephanie are in.
- I know Kibbee was a lez, but didn't get the tool belt & flannel vibe that Ford and Flannery had. Ditto with Cooper and Connelly. Actually, now that I think about it, Darlene Conley would definitely qualify as a bulldyke matriarch.
- Imagine if Connie Ford was President Constance Ford. How would the world change? What would her election speech sound like?
"WE LIVED BY THE RULES!!!! AAAAALL OF THEM!!!! YOU THINK YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE THE RULES THAT SUIT YOU?!!! YOU THINK THAT RULES ARE MADE TO BE BROOOOOOKEN?!!!! WELL, THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE....!!!!" keels over
- Here's a clip of Jeanne Cooper as the waitress Marge on Y&R. One of the comments says that she looks like Ian McKellen in drag:
- r126 has me in stitches. She really kept Jane Cameron, who played Nancy in the scene, on her toes.
- Had no idea about Lois Kibbee. Did she have a long-term partner?
- Wow, even watching Edge as a kid, I could tell that Kibbee was somewhat masculine, with that deep voice. She was a terrific actress and had such great chemistry with Larkin Malloy and Sharon Gabet. Her character on OLTL was more of a caricature, but she seemed to have a lot of fun with that.
- The amazing Nancy Marchand, famously Livia on "The Sopranos", was Iris' socialite friend Therese Lamonte in the 70s. What I wouldn't give to see those two titans of acting in a scene together.
- Here's an episode where Iris and Mac return from Therese's funeral -Therese died on Iris' porch:
- The idea of Bev, Connie, and Marchand in a scene together gets my big gay heart aracing. Can just imagine them trying to one up each other...at the end of the scene, all that'd be left of the scenery is a lightbulb dangling from the studio ceiling LOLZ.
- R132 Do you have any idea where there might be a tape of Theresa singing "Bye, Bye Blackbird" as she dies? I looked for different combinations of "Nancy Marchand bye bye blackbird another world" on youtube, but came up empty-handed.
- She is terrific in the 1961 Warner sudser Claudelle Inglish as the desperate mother of Diane McBain. When Diane, the slut all the boys want, turns down a rich farmer Constance goes after him herself, but then she is married to poor Arthur Kennedy.
- Mac & Rachel having a screaming match:
- Felicia Gallant has a kind of butch aura come to think of it.
- R137 Oh yeah! At least 80s Felicia did. That hair and those big shoulder pads were seriously butch.
- WHO THE FUCK KEEPS DETOURING MY THREAD WITH THIS IRIS AND MAC/RACHEL BULLSHIT? YOU PEOPLE THINK YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WITH MY THREAD! YOU THINK YOU KNOW EVERYTHING! IN MY DAY WE PLAYED BY THE RULES AND KEPT THESE FUCKING THREADS ON TRACK. SO GET THIS THREAD BACK TO DISCUSSING ME!
Connie, playing the wallflower today
- R139 Your pussy stinks.
And I should know.
- Give 'em hell, Connie @ R139.
You go girl.
- There was an archetypal butch harridan on the UK soap "Coronation Street" - Ena Sharples:
- 1979 is the earliest video compilation that Eddie Drueding has for purchase over at the awesome AW Homepage site. Eddie has such an extensive clip/episode collection that AW producers contacted him to get footage for their Victoria Wyndman anniversary special.
- Fuck Victoria Wyndham. This is Connie's thread. And who brought the Brits into it?
- Ok, let me add my two cents to this thread. My aunt played Pat on this show and I spoke with her about Connie Ford and some of the other ladies on the show. Connie was as salt of the earth as it gets. She took acting and her role seriously. She was an extremely private person. Vickie Wyndham was one of the few who she kept in touch with outside of Another World. Beverly McKinsey was a cool, standoffish type person. She was rather similar in many ways to Connie Ford. My aunt really thought Beverly should have not gone in to a career on soaps as she seemed to get bored very easily. Beverly had a razor sharp memory and the producers at AW had to really search for the right leading men for her. One of her love-Interest's really gave Beverly a hard time and was fired. One of her longest leading men lasted only because he was really just a supporting character to her role, but he understood how to be around Beverly. My aunt said while Beverly was a very good actress, she was really just in it for the money. Beverly and Vickie Wyndham did not have any difficulties off camera, but both were as different as night and day - with Vickie being way more approachable. Vickie took her character very seriously, but she had a homelife: she loved her kids her homes, and pets. With Connie, what you saw was what you got. There was absolutely no BS with Connie. You were punctual, alert and ready to go. Anyway....that's it for now! My aunt sends her love to everyone that keeps the memory of Another World alive!
- In her prime, don't you think the great soap opera star Kate Collins (Natalie and Janet on AMC) resembled and spoke like a young Constance Ford?
- Thank you so much, r145, for posting. Your aunt was so great on AW...a wonderfully warm and subtle actress. Although Wyndham and McKinsey were terrific, it's a shame that they tended to eclipse your aunt as the '70s went on.
- [quote] This is Connie's thread.
Connie Ford is fine but NOT THAT FUCKING INTERESTING to talk about on her own for 600 entries.
Please unclench your overextended asshole and sit it down in a chair in the Cory mansion, already.
- Many years ago my mother, my brother, and I were watching a movie when she pointed at the TV and said, "I know her. We used to sit next to each other and get our hair done. Nice lady." It seems that in the sixties and seventies my mother went to a hairdresser at Saks every Saturday morning, and Constance Ford had an appointment there at the same time. When I asked my mother why she never watched soaps, she said she felt too guilty to watch TV during the day, even when she was a housewife and no one was around from 8 to 4. Oddly, after she went back to college and graduated and found a satisfying late-in-life career, she admitted that she occasionally sneaked a look at Days of Our Lives. It's funny what makes people ashamed.
- [quote]Judy Garland was performing one night on stage at the Palace when her exodus from the stage was brought to a grinding halt. She cried out to someone sitting in the theater, "I know you. I see you every day on television. You're Connie Ford... Ada!"
- Connie must've been mortified when Judy called her name. At least she didn't mistake her for Broderick Crawford, cuz I see the resemblance.
- I'll bet Connie went backstage and gave Judy a thorough tongue-lashing. THOROUGH!
- Steve & Alice segment at the 50 years of Soaps gala:
- Bev's nephew, what did your aunt think of Robin Strasser? Did Connie prefer Robin or Vicky?
- W@W for r152. LMFAO!!!!!!!
- That would be the robin's egg blue striped sofa they never replaced, R148.
- I WAS THE CHIEF!!!!
- R157 Yes, you were, Iris. And you had that cute blond boyfriend who worked for you. Gaygaygaygaygay. What ever happened to him?
- r145 thanks for posting! I have never bought into those rumours that McKinsey and Wyndham were so at odds that they couldn't even star in scenes together at the end. Bev or Vicki never seemed to be those kinds of divas to me. I think they were just very professional and didn't suffer fools.
I can't imagine who the actor was that was fired because Bev and he didn't work well together, unless it was Nicolas Coster; I've always heard that Nicolas Coster and she didn't work well together because he was never prepared and never knew his lines which drove her crazy. But I thought Robert went on with a romance with Susan Sullivan's Lenore after his marriage with Iris, or were Lenore and Robert before Iris and Robert?
The second leading man you are referring to has got to be Paul Stevens. There was nothing really for Brian Bancroft to do except be Iris' supporting character in her dramas. They did work well together - probably for that very reason.
I've always heard the Bev was ambivalent about soaps. She worked because she wanted the money. She made her last TV apearence in a very unflattering guest spot on General Hospital because she needed the work to get the health insurance.
Give my regards to your aunt. It's too bad she never made a comeback in soaps. Has anyone tried to get her to return to the industry?
- The lovely Beverley Penberthy as an inconsolable Pat Randolph:
- The enigmatic Beverlee McKinsey showing all sorts of sides of Iris tangling with her stepson Ted and her mortal enemy Rachel:
- The wonderful Irene Daily as the insufferable, not-so-subtle and always sneering snoopy Aunt Liz:
- Classic Rachel and Mac argument:
- And no one could mop a floor like Ada Downs Davis McGowan Hobson:
- LIZ MATTHEWS, IS THAT YOU? ARE YOU HERE TO STAY?
- Ada is featured prominently throughtout this 1980 episode:
- Jesus r165, she sounded like a lunatic in the nuthouse saying that line.
- Harding Lemay was among the soldiers who liberated one of the concentration camps in WW2. Can you imagine that? He was only 21. Talk about a formative experience.
- What I loved about Harding Lemay is that he took characters and shaped them into people you would know. You felt like you were peeking into "another world" than your own. It was immensely involving.
- Why didn't anybody save the 70s episodes? How could people be so stupid? You don't just dump priceless works of art in the river. I am so furious. We have to find those episodes. I refuse to believe they were destroy. It is not possible. Somebody at least must have recorded them.
I am NOT going to give up the search.
- R170 = Sally Kimball, partner of Encyclopedia Brown, Boy Detective
- r171, did you know that the character of Felicia Gallant as based on Jacqueline Susann, author of VALLEY OF THE DOLLS?
- Novels by Felicia Gallant -
Felicia has published at least 53 books, all gothic romance, except as noted:
The Bride of Bombay
The Bride of Waverly
The Cannons of Newcastle
Castle of Desire
Damned by Desire
The Daring Heart
Driven to Passion
Embers in the Snow (1985)
Every Heart Knows
Flames in the Night
Forbidden Flower (1994, rejected)
For the Love of Poppy
Gardenias for Gwendolyn
Gone with the Dawn (1983, first for Cory Publishing)
The Heart That Heals (1996, contemporary)
The Heart's Own Music
Into the Fire (1994, semi-autobiographical)
The Lady and the Laborer (1989)
Lock Out the Night
Love Beneath the Stars
Love on the Moors
Lust in the Kremlin (1980s)
The Manly Heart
The Mistress of Orleans
Moonlight Desires (1983)
My Finest Hour
Paradise Delayed (1998)
Passion's Progress (1983)
The Pauper's Ransom
The Rebel Princess
Rive Gauche Serenade
Rocky Mountain Miracle
Sands of the Desert
Sands of the Heart
Savage Love (1983)
Torrid Tundra Nights
Walking in the Light: The Story of Frankie Frame Winthrop (1997, biographical)
White Snow in Hell
- I'm so glad to see that Camille Paglia acknowledged McKinsey like that - I missed that when McKinsey died. What a wonderful article.
Paglia pointed out a delicious poetic irony that only soaps can do in their own special incestuous way: the connection between McKinsey's Iris and Joan Collins' Alexis.
Lemay was friend to both Esther and Richard Shapiro, who created Dynasty and borrowed the name Carrington from Lemay's Iris character to name their leading family. Their initial storyline on Dynasty dealing with a manipulative daughter's jealousy over her dashing millionaire father's new wife was also borrowed from Lemay's Iris-Mac-Rachel triangle. The character of Alexis was also modeled after Iris, especially as Alexis became a woman of wealth living in an opulent modern penthouse that was a prime-time version of Iris' luxurious suite. How ironic that years later, Joan Collins would step into McKinsey's second role Alexandra Spaulding, following McKinsey once again.
Lemay wanted to create in Iris a jet-setting socialite who would remind viewers of the media icon Jackie Onassis. He drew upon his own experiences of traveling among the upper-crust of New York society. We saw Chekovian portrayals of American wealth play out their perspectives on life alongside the middle class and the lower. In one episode, we were taken from Ada's simple kitchen to the Matthew's middle-class living room to the Randolph's upper-middle class home to the Cory's wealthy drawing room to Iris' decadent suite. We met the people who inhabited these worlds. We met doctors and lawyers, architects and writers, students and housewives, millionaires and socialities, playboys and housekeepers; before Downton Abbey, we got a glimpse into the lives of the servant class. On soaps today, things are so confused and blurry between the classes. Nothing is authentic. Everyone is living like they are superstars.
- Wonderful post r174. I believe the original "Upstairs, Downstairs" was a big hit around the time "Another World" was at its peak and thinking on it, they speak on exactly the same themes. It's just a shame NBC didn't make Harding LeMay's "Another World" a primetime drama to compete with the success of its British contemporary show because really, it was just as good.
- After Dynasty and Dallas blew up, daytime heads thought that audiences only wanted to see the lives of the rich and powerful. Soaps lost the middle class roots and those salt of the earth characters like Ada and the strong mothers who kept it all together. So boardrooms replaced Ada's kitchen and characters like Bert went to work at the hospital. And those special characters like Nancy Hughes were replaced by over the top characters like Lucinda and Asa.
What daytime heads never quite understood, was the daytime audiences were looking for some different than nighttime audiences. They didn't have to copy primetime soaps, but they did.
It's very telling that the one primetime soap, that outlasted them all was Knots Landing. A show very much like those old soaps from the 60s and 70s.
- Constance Ford starred with an unknown young actor named James Dean in "See the Jaguar" on Broadway, in 1952.
"THE STORY: In a remote section of the West, a man named Brad owns the sole gas station and store. He also owns a small zoo where he cages the occasional wildcat or whatever wildlife can be caught in the area. The cages are Brad's obsession—they remind him of man's supremacy over nature; they remind him that he is a master in this village where everybody is in debt to him. But he is not master over his daughter Janna (Connie Ford), who has fallen in love with Brad's outspoken enemy, Dave Ricks. But if Brad's weapons are force, hatred and violence, Dave's are peace, love and gentleness. The two men battle over Wally Wilkins (James Dean), an innocent boy of seventeen who was hidden away by his demented mother, and who is now free since his mother died. Because the boy is supposedly in possession of a large sum of money, Brad pursues Wally, whom Dave and Janna are escorting to safety. When Brad catches up them he realizes that his pursuit of Wally has alienated him from his daughter. At the end of a night of wild drunkenness Brad imprisons Wally in a cage. To free Wally and Janna from her father's dominance, and to affirm the deeper strength of the gentle over the violent, Dave gives up his life."
Unfortunately, the play flopped and closed after 5 performances.
Here's a picture of Jimmy Dean in the cage looking up at Connie. Little did Dean know he was looking up at one of the soon-to-be great icons of 20th century soap opera! Ain't THAT a kick in the cunt?!
- Harding Lemay's Another World could have been a prime-time show, it was that sophisticated. NBC gave Rauch/Lemay the opportunity to create another soap ("Lovers and Friends"), but it wasn't very good.
- I remember watching a documentary and he said part of the reason why he had to leave the show was that he was becoming so focused on it and ignoring every other aspect of his personal life. He said one of the things that made him snap out of it was walking by a shop window and seeing a new dress and thinking, "That'd look great on Pat," instead of his actual wife.
- Soaps are such an anachronistic genre. The traits we long-time fans loved most about them (slow moving stories, domestic scenes, real conversations, intergenerational conflict, different classes of characters juxtaposed against each other) don't appeal to the 18-34 demo. Instead of trying to make them like prime time series and movies with CGI crap, unbelieveably pretty people, and endless shocking plot twists, the networks should've let them die with some dignity long, long ago.
- Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Pat the first character to have an abortion ? I know whatever character it was was on AW.
Erica was the first legal abortion.
- Oh my god.
- She is SO lovely!
- What do you expect? I was the face of Elizabeth Arden's Victory Red lipstick, after all. And Joan Crawford's Judo partner/aide in THE CARETAKERS. Talk about someone who needed a kick in the cunt!
- [quote] Soaps are such an anachronistic genre. The traits we long-time fans loved most about them (slow moving stories, domestic scenes, real conversations, intergenerational conflict, different classes of characters juxtaposed against each other) don't appeal to the 18-34 demo.
I somewhat disagree.
Listen, "soaps" still exist today. EVERY nighttime show has a serialized element now.
Harry Potter was one long soap. Most well loved, deeply involving books are.
The main problem is that daytime became ashamed of doing what it did well - appealing to women - and chased 90% of the fans away, programming stories that few women (hello Bob Guza) and even fewer older people would watch.
Then they wrung their hands and wondered where everyone had gone.
- I don't understand this myth about soaps being for women. Any story, since the beginning of time, is for all of humankind.
- R186 But soaps had a distinctly feminine viewpoint - or one that women could participate in, let's say that...one that didn't EXCLUDE them - for a long time.
Soaps are really no different than comic books - they in fact have the same DNA. But while we make billion dollar movie franchises out of something perceived as masculine (comic books) a story that is a "woman's story" or perceived to be about life, love, relationships has been minimized in the last 20-30 years, on TV and in film.
Truly emotional stories in film are told and developed far less often than comic book and action/adventure movies. And it's essentially a handful of Streep movies and Almodovar making them.
- These labels only exist because people persist in using them. There is no such thing as a comic book. There is no such thing as a soap opera. There is only story, be it around a campfire at the dawn of man or told in various formats today.
- While we are on the subject of AW, does anyone have any gossip about Stephen Schetzner? That guy just did it for me like no other guy ever has.
- He's apparently straight as an arrow, R189, and I think he's been married to the same woman for years.
But agreed, he is smoking hot.
- This thread, though wearing out, has glimmers of the old, funny DL.
- r190, he's been married to Nancy Snyder, ex Katrina Karr, OLTL, for many years. They met when he was on OLTL playing Marcello Salta. Very handsome guy.
- The problem with current soaps is that they move too fast. A story that used to take 2 years is now told in 13 weeks, and even in 13 weeks people scream because they say the show is dragging things out. Those classic storylines that everyone remembers and are always referencing, are stories that took years to build up and tell.
Lemay used Ada's pregnancy as a jump off to reforming Rachel. It wasn't to shock audiences or for a ratings stunt.
- Whenever a Datalounge topic like this takes off, I find myself checking Amazon for copies of Harding Lemay's book.
The current crop is the usual eight or so copies, all priced over $100. But, surprisingly, there's now a Kindle edition for $9.99 (Canadian). That could be good news for lots of fans.
I hope an epub version will follow!
- Yes, r181, I believe Pat was the first to have an abortion.
- [quote]"We have become the phenomenon of our time, the best game in town. In one week, we play to an audience larger than Clark Gable played to in his whole career. You say 'Phoebe,' and 50 million people know what you mean. Once you grab hold of one of those jobs, you don't want to let go."
- The person in the pic at r177 who is not Constance Ford or James Dean is Arthur Kennedy. A very accomplished actor with numerous awards for his work.
Also a personal crush for me. Discovered by Jimmy Cagney who also may have had a tiny crush. You never know.
- "In one week, we play to an audience larger than Clark Gable played to in his whole career."
Can this really be true?
- This guy named Tom fucked Pat in the back of his car. Pat thought they were going to get engaged, Tom just wanted some cooter. Pat got pregnant and in those days couples were supposed to get married when they made an oopsie. Well Tom sent her to some back alley abortionist. Dumb Pat still believed that Tom would marry her if she had the abortion. Cue the coat hanger and Pat was rid of the fetus and Tom had moved on. Pat started bleeding like crazy one night and discovered that she would never be able to have kids. Pat kept hearing a baby crying and lost her mind and shot Tom. There was a big trial, Pat fell in love with her attorney. After a few years, Pat had some kind of cooch surgery that fixed botched abortions and she gave birth to twins. Pat hired Blanche Devereaux to be her housekeeper, who was crazy, and began poisoning her to take her husband and kids away. The truth came out and Pat started to drink, because John was spending too much time at the office with Bernice, and she had nothing to do all day except take care of two brats. John was lawyering and fucking slutty Bernice while Pat was sucking down Jack Daniels. Eventually this all came out and Bernice ended up dead, murdered by her ex-lover. Pat kicked John out and he moved into a hotel room, where he started to drink and was framed by Gil's son to look like he was embezzling from Steve Frame. That was all cleared up after Steve returned from prison. Meanwhile Pat's twins had grown up over night, Maryann was a little hot and for awhile there everyone thought that Michael might be gay, but it turned out that he just liked really masculine looking girls. Maryann had an abortion, Pat kept it from John. John got mad and divorced Pat. John married slutty scheming Olive, died in a fire and Pat went on to work for Cory Publishing, where newly evil Cecile plotted to get her job and turned her into a drunk again. All of a sudden Pat disappeared. The end.
- Excellent summation, R199 -- but you missed Pat killing Greg Barnard, her daughter's boyfriend, when Barnard tried to rape her.
- I also forgot during the early days of her marriage to John, who was much older than Pat, Pat had to deal with John's daughter Lee, who was that much younger than she was and had an emotional affair with this guy named Mike Bauer from this little town called Springfield, who had to get away from Springfield to clear his head from all the drama over there. One day Lee saw Pat and Mike in a compromising situation and then it was on.
The fact that all of that stuff is floating around in my head should frighten me.
- R198 In 2005-07 (or thereabouts), books "written by" different characters on ATWT sold enough copies to put the books on the NYT best-seller list. 40 years ago, the soap audience was many, many times larger, so I'd say the Clark Gable comparison is apt.
- Schnetzer still looks great.
- R198 In the 60s, As The World Turns had something like a 50 or 60 audience share - meaning 50-60% of all sets that could get signals were turned to ATWT.
Even at the end, ATWT had as many viewers in a week as Mad Men. It wasn't exactly "unwatched," just deemed not profitable.
- Sorry, that was "fifteen" not "fifty."
Still at the top of the rankings until well into the 80s.
- Connie's IMDB AW profile has her listed as Ada "Bubbles" Lucas Davis et al. Who the hell called her "Bubbles"? I don't ever remember that.
- At its height (around 1964) ATWT got over a 15 rating (meaning 15% of all TVs had it on between 1:30 & 2) and around a 55-60 share (meaning of those TVs on at that time, around 55-60% of them had on ATWT).
- and the funny thing is r204, that Mad Men kept mentioning ATWT in its story, since Joan was assigned to watch the show (as it was just becoming a phenomenon).
- Thank you R207, I knew what I was quoting I'd heard before but I was having a hard time explaining it or finding the stats online to 'splain.
- OMG, r203, Schetzner is still really a sexy guy I would so do him in a sec!!!!! The last time I saw him was on an episode of Damages opposite Glenn Close. He was - of course - playing a lawyer!
The last time we saw Pat Matthews Randolph was at the Cory Publishing 35th anniversary party (coinciding with the show's anniversary). Pat, her sister Alice (Jacquie Courtney), her brother Russ (David Bailey) and their Aunt Liz (Irene Dailey) attended the festivities. Also in attendance were Iris' son Dennis Carrington (Jim Poyner) and her ex-husband Robert Delaney (Nicolas Coster); Ada's daughter Nancy McGowan (Jane Cameron); and a vindictive Gwen Parrish Frame (Dorothy Lyman) crashed the party, knocking out Rachel in a struggle, causing Rachel to have a near-death experience while she was unconscious where she came face-to-face in the afterlife with her most dangerous enemy Janice Frame (Christine Jones) and her first love Steve Frame (George Reinholt), both of whom fought for Rachel's soul.
The whole week-long anniversary celebration was especially sentimental because the audience was aware that Douglas Watson had just passed away, whereas Mac's absence was thinly explained on the show.
Those who were asked to attend the festivities and turned them down were Maeve Kinkead (Angie Perrini, who was over at GL at the time as Vanessa Chamberlain), Susan Sullivan (Lenore Delaney, who was on Falcon Crest at the time), and Chris Rich (Sandy Cory). Leon Russom was all set to appear as Willis Frame, but had to back out at the last minute; the writers gave his wife Gwen Frame all the lines that were supposed to be Willis' - thus, the rewrite that occured with this character and her sudden hatred for Rachel.
The great thing about these return appearences was that they weren't one-day walk-ons. They all fitted into the current story somehow and occurred over the course of three-four days. The writers originally wanted to reunite Lenore and Robert at the party, as well as give some time to the old Angie-Willis-Gwen triangle. Unfortunately, that didn't work out with Sullivan and Kinkead declining.
Strangely, they didn't give Reinholt and Courtney a scene together. They decided to treat Rachel's relationship with him as the classic love story to be honored.
- R206 Must've been that lost episode where she had amnesia and had to support herself as a stripper.
- Anything you wanted to know about beautician Ada Lucas Davis Downs McGowan Hobson:
- I don't care what anyone says, I know that that elegant Boston socialitie Cornelia Exeter is my real birth mother. Not that Jewess shopkeeper Sylvie Kosloff.
Iris Bancroft, living in decadent denial and trying to forget her time in Texas
- I grew up in an AMC/DOOL/GH/OLTL house and never really experienced the P&G soaps (my mom was an AW fan before I was born). Just watched R13's clip -- wow.
- Connie slash Ada was a pillar of strength in terrible times:
- Audio of Iris finding out she was adopted:
- An audio of one of Mac and Iris' countless arguments ... nobody has ever come close to capturing the sadness, the anger issues, and the perversity of this father-daughter relationship like Lemay, Watson and McKinsey did:
- Audio of a heartbroken Ada grieving over dead husband number three:
- Another Iris/Mac confrontation:
- Thanks for all these summations and links to audio (!!) of scenes. You certainly are stirring memories.
A couple of minor corrections.
The party r210 is referring to was Cory Publishing and AW's 25th anniversary, not 35th anniversary. It aired in May 1989. It was the nicest on-air anniversary celebration ever aired by a soap. Only thing that comes close to comparison was All My Children's 25th anniversary shows in Jan. 1995 when many old characters returned for Joe and Ruth's housewarming party.
The reason Mac's absence was so thinly explained was that Douglass Watson had literally passed away the weekend before they were to start shooting the scenes.
Maeve Kinkead was off GL for about a year in 1988-89. She returned to GL as Vanessa in summer 1989, but would have been available to film the 25th anniversary shows as Angie. So, if she was invited (never heard that before), she simply didn't want to go back.
Also I don't believe that Jane Cameron (Nancy) came back for the 25th anniversary. Or for Mac's funeral. She did return for Ada's funeral in 1993, along with Clarice and Larry.
If I recall correctly, Chris Rich (Sandy) said he had no interest in returning for the 25th anniversary, but did offer to come back for Mac's funeral. Unfortunately, he was filming another show/movie and couldn't get away to on the day the were set to film the funeral scenes.
- The daughter @R13 reminds me of Lu-Lu Fishpaw in [italic]Polyester.[/italic]
- I loved Cecile....she was such a delicious bitch.
- I think you have to put Chris and Nancy's 50th anniversary (ATWT's 30th anniversary) in your list. Lots of actors and beloved characters were brought back for that and it was used to forward every story.
- The Death of Mackenzie Cory, Part 23.
Iris' speech is so moving (Carmen Duncan was my only Iris; I watched Beverlee right after AW on GL).
Who is the woman who attempts to comfort Rachel at 4:15?
Also, the original Josie, Alexandra Wilson, all decked out in Laura Ashley.
- The woman at 4:15 attempting to comfort Rachel is Rachel's first major rival Alice Matthews Frame; that is the most famous actress who played Alice the longest, Jacqueline Courtney. Rachel and Alice had a long and contentious relationship - when Rachel was devious, she schemed to break up ALice and Steve Frame and became pregnant with Steve's child. It took years for Alice and Rachel to become civil with one another (Alice was once engaged to Mac during a breakup between Mac and Rachel and Rachel hooked up with a return-from-the-dead Steve Frame). In Alice's last appearence before Mac's funeral at the 25th anniversary celebration, Rachel confided in her old rival that she saw Steve waiting for her at the brink of death, and the two had a reconciliation of sorts over their shared love for the same man.
- Nancy McGowan did appear the 25th anniversary celebration. It's all on YT.
Nancy Fragione was just divine as Cecile. I thought she was a horrible recast at first, having loved Susan Keith in the role. But Nnacy quickly made it her own, That initial storyline of turning her husband Jaime into a drug addict was fabulous. She soon evolved into the Donna Mills of daytime.
- I didn't start watching AW until the very end of the 1980s so I missed nearly everything "golden." All I remember before I had the Internet was that the show really loved Alla Korot and her mind-numbingly-idiotic character Jenna Norris and the writing was so slanted into "Hey, everyone loves Jenna! You must love Jenna too!" and it made me hate her and love every time Lorna got into her shit and ruined her life. It was never the same when Lorna turned good. And I have to say Jenna losing her baby while Felicia was blotto in the rural cabin was the only time I lol'd at a miscarriage ever.
- Jenna's D-day. Loved every SECOND of this shit. Can't believe it's been almost 21 years!
- I audition for lots of commercials and voice-overs in NYC. Although, I am 15 years younger than Stephen Schnetzer, we read for the same projects. He is a great looking guy, and really nice. He's just a working actor type, and I would say his great personality is the reason everybody likes him.
- I loved Keith, but can't deny Nancy F. made Cecile her own. She was the Abby Ewing of that show, R226. Nice comparison.
I forgot Nancy McGowan popped back up for the show's 25th anniversary.
AW was a show that peed all over its own history. I think that's why it ended in the '90s as opposed to hanging in there to the 2000s. (Granted it died in 1999.)
That 25th anniversary week was a nice throwback to AW's past...it was great seeing Robert Delaney, Pat, Alice, Russ, Aunt Liz, Steve (as a ghost) and even Gwen (horrible re-written)one last time.
I'm all for new characters on shows, but they have to succeed in making us like them. If they don't, we're only going to resent their presence all the more.
- Ohhhhhhhhhh...that's Alice. I didn't start watching until 1988, so she was just the stuff of legend.
Jamie was Rachel and Steve's son, correct?
I hated Jenna, too, R227. It was never as interesting after she was allowed to take over the show. I was glad Alla Korot never became famous.
- In the late 1960s, "Another World" was an American cultural phenomenon. The Steve/Alice/Rachel traingle captivated the nation. Those were halcyon days. Robin Strasser is very much the Twiggy of soap operas. A pioneer. An icon. Without her, Lucci would not have been.
- I think AW became the cultural phenomenon you speak of *after* Robin Strasser left, i.e., in the 1970s. I can't imagine the show with her as its heroine. Her sour, dour Dorian made OLTL a must to avoid. I can't imagine her instead of Vicky Windham as Rachel.
- r233, the numbers in the late 60s speak for themselves. Agnes had a winner.
- Here is the scintillating Opal vs Rachel confrontation during the 25th anniversary. Sorry, I mean Gwen vs Rachel:
Alla left acting and owns her own skin care company.
- Screw the 1960s, I didn't get to go to the White House!
- This is hilarious. It's like a drag queen parody.
- Here a couple of grainy kinescope clips from 1968. First, one with Robin Strasser as Rachel:
- Next, Alice and Steve meet for the first time:
- Robin Strasser's eulogy for Jacquie Courtney:
- r233 You've got it wrong. So backwards.
When Robin Strasser played Rachel from 68-72, Rachel was the show's main VILLAIN.
Alice Matthews, played by Jacqueline Courtney, was the show's HEROINE.
Their rivalry over Steve Frame was what catapulted the show onto the national consciousness, made it into a cultural phenomenon.
Strasser left the role of Rachel in 1972 and was replaced by Victoria Wyndham. Her Rachel was also a villain for several years while the Steve-Rachel-Alice triangle continued.
But then Harding Lemay paired Rachel with Mac Cory and the show slowly began to write her as a sympathetic heroine. They wrote it that Mac's love helped redeem Rachel, turn her into a good person. From then on, Rachel was the center of the show.
- I never got the Alice fuss. But then again I really started watching with mid 70s Mac/Iris/Rachel.
- r243 Jackie Courtney just had electrifying chemistry with George Reinholt. They were each strong actors apart, but together, they created something magical.
Steve and Alice were the Luke and Laura of the late 60s/early 70s.
It also helped they Jackie could suffer very well on screen. The audience just felt for her, ached for her pain. In those days, storyline moved slower, so there were lots of scenes of Alice suffering in silence.
Of course, all the horrible things Rachel did to keep Steve and Alice apart just made you feel for Alice even more.
What more could Alice endure? It propelled the show to the top of the ratings.
- Harding LeMay said Jacquie didn't know how to act.
Jacqui was canned from OLTL because ABC was bring Paul Rauch to be EP.
- Alice was like a precursor to Nikki Newman on Y&R. Blonde, angelic and could cry on cue.
- r245 Your facts are a little off.
Jackie Courtney left OLTL in early 1983. She returned to AW on May 4, 1984, the show's 20th anniversary.
Paul Rauch was fired as EP of AW in late 1982/early 1983, but didn't take over as EP of OLTL until summer 1984.
- I'd love to know Harding Lemay's thoughts on OLTL under Rauch (the Tina years). That era was camp as fuck!
- I hate how DL shuts down soap threads. Some TV shows are on once a week in primetime. Some TV shows-thank God, there still are some-are on 5 days a week in the afternoon. We pretty much DVR whatever we watch, an watch it whenever we want to, no one should pre-judge soap viewers as fanatics or bored housewives.
Hell, no one should judge housewives, or house husbands (for that mater). Why can't people start and participate in whatever thread thy want without DL Censorship?
This is the ONLY site where I've ever read-what I plausibly believe to be-"real info" about what goes on/went on backstage without the heavily warped agenda of N. Branco (who skeeves me out) or the Daytime Conf. crew letting J. Giddens and J. Bowe give me a migraine with their two fools shouting across a subway platform routine.
I was just following another thread on here and someone who knew was talking about how much people (actors, veteran actors, veteran actors the soaps didn't seem to want but felt forced to keep on 2 or 3 times a week, writers, etc.) were paid per episode. I went back and the thread was "closed."
I've always wondered. I there's anyone on here who knows I could throw out some names and I'd be interested to know how much they get paid per episode. The whole business side fascinates me.
- R242 Alma, I thought it was *after* Lemay took over that the ratings improved.
- Agnes raised the ratings and Cenedella kept the show steady enough for PG to allow him to create a spin-off. The only reason PG even looked at Lemay was because PG wanted Cenedella to focus on Somerset. Lemay did very well in the ratings for his first 4 or 5 years, things settling around late 76 and spiked again in 77 during the Sven storyline.
- Sven was the scariest mother-expletive out there.
He scared me! No wonder the ratings went up.
Lemay was no fan of Jacquie's but even he admitted in his memoir that while Susan Harney was a better actress Jacquie was a star; he attributed OLTL's ratings' increase to Courtney.
Lemay successfully transitioned the show away from Alice/Steve/Rachel to Rachel/Mac/Iris.
It's just a crime that AW wasted Courtney when she came back.
While we're at it -- I thought David Canary made one great Steven Frame.
- Sven scared the shit out of me too. My mom was a huge AW fan. I mean HUGE. I remember those weeks of episodes where he kept Rachel captive.
- How huge was she, r253?
- [quote] This is the ONLY site where I've ever read-what I plausibly believe to be-"real info" about what goes on/went on backstage without the heavily warped agenda of N. Branco (who skeeves me out) or the Daytime Conf. crew letting J. Giddens and J. Bowe give me a migraine with their two fools shouting across a subway platform routine.
Nelson at least gets good dirt sometimes. He's a starfucker (literally and, I suspect, figurately) but he does do his homework.
Jamey "I'm The Size Of A Small Planet" Giddens and crew, on the other hand, always sound like Amateur Hour. I listened a few years ago to some big podcast they did with Victoria Rowell and I was MORTIFIED at how bad it was. Neither Jamey or the other dude could finish a sentence and both of them sounded like the two newest students at the School for Severe Speech Impediments.
Can someone remind me of the Sven storyline?
- [quote] literally and, I suspect, figurately
My bad, that was clearly backwards. Should be figuratively and, I suspect, literally.
- Olive also terrified me as a kid. I remember she threw acid in the eyes of whom she thought was Alice, but was really Joey Perrini's gf Eileen Simpson. Then of course, she burned down Alice's cottage, with her ex John Randolph getting killed as he tried to rescue Alice. I think the episode in which John died kicked off the ultimately doomed 90-minute format.
- R257, it was. I loved how John called Olive "All-eve."
- Remember when Olive, married to John, was having an affair with Evan Webster, played by the very handsome Barry Jenner? I still recall the Friday cliffhanger in which I think Evan was going to kill John. They struggled with the gun and then fell behind the couch out of camera view as a gunshot rang out. We wouldn't learn til the following Monday that it was Evan who was killed. I know Lemay hated writing this type of melodrama, but it was really well written for what it was.
- Roberts Blossom (who played the lonely old man in Home Alone) gave a very memorable and creepy performance as Sven Peterson, the new handyman around the Cory estate. He was secretly involved with Helga Lindeman, the new housekeeper, who told the Corys Sven was her cousin from Sweden. Helga's innocent daughter Regine became the center of an evil plot Sven cooked up to extort money out of Mac Cory. The Cory marriage was strained for some reason or other, and Sven schemed to push Regine onto Mac.
Meanwhile, the existing servants at the Cory estate were suspicious of the newcomers. Rocky Olson, the chauffer, discovered Sven and Helga were skimming money off the account books. The duo schemed to frame Rocky for stealing, and not long after Rocky was fired, he mysteriously disappeared, which concerned his lady love Louise, the Corys secretary. Louise felt threatened by Sven, especially now that he was ingratiating himself in family matters. Iris bribed Sven to keep an eye on the Corys and be her spy in the house, and he conned her into taking Brooks the butler away from the Corys staff, slowly taking over the household. He continued to exploit the troubles between Mac and Rachel and push Regine onto Mac. Iris regretted her decision when she walked in on Mac and Regine in bed, a scenario Sven set up by drugging both to make it look like they had slept together. Iris feared Sven was worming his way into the family. Tables turned when Iris begged her enemy Rachel to help her save Mac from Regine's clutches. The Corys broke up over Mac's indiscretion. Regine was pregnant with her boyfriend Cliff's baby, but Sven forced her to lie that it was Mac's. Mac wanted to do the honorable thing by marrying Regine now that Rachel wanted to divorce him. Rachel discovered Regine was not carrying Mac's baby, but before she could tell him, Sven kidnapped her. He held her on the Cory estate in the stables for almost a month, tormenting and terroriszing her. While everyone wondered where Rachel was, the body of the missing Rocky Olson was found dismembered in a garbage bag underneath the Cory boathouse.
Determined to get his fortune out of Cory, Sven made Rachel make a ransom tape. Mac recognized the sounds in the background and it led him to the stables. During a struggle between Mac and Sven, Rachel fell and hit her head and suffered blindness as a result. Sven was carted off to prison, never to be seen again. Helga and Regine left town in shame.
But his impact was felt - it became the story to watch at the time. I remember my father and brother-in-law were engrossed in the Sven story. People at school were talking about it.
- Yes, r231, James Frame was Rachel and Steve's son. One of the best endearing mother-son relationships in daytime was between Wyndham and the actors who played Jaime (most notably the wonderful Richard Bekins). She adored her child and was proud of him no matter what. What a shame the show forgot that relationshi pin the last stages of AW. Laurence Lau did not make a good Jaime (nor did Russell Todd), and they should have brought Jaime back near the end to help regain its identity, preferably with Bekins in the role again. It would have added a nice conflict in the Rachel-Carl story.
I loved that story where Cecile was drugging Jaime into becoming dependent on drugs. He was strangely hot in that story.
Btw, Bekins is looking damn fine these days:
- Ahh, Richard Bekins. The best of the Jamie Frames.
Should have been a much bigger star.
He's gay in real life from what I hear.
- R261 and R262 I never saw Richard Bekins as Jamie, but sometime during the early '90s, I think, he was on ATWT for a short period, and I knew he'd played Jamie at one time, and I thought, "Yes, let's get *this* Jamie back." He was terrific.
- [quote]We wouldn't learn til the following Monday that it was Evan who was killed.
In the old days, AW (and I think other P&G shows) used to have characters milling about under the show's credits, which were quite lengthy. The show's theme was played on the soundtrack. On the day Evan was killed, the credits played over a black screen and the only sound was Olive wailing over the death of her lover. it was chilling.
- Yes, yes, r264, I do remember Olive crying. Jennifer Leak was so scary in that role. When I saw her a few years later on a late night showing of Yours, Mine and Ours as the sweet daughter of Lucy, it was almost jarring. She was actually married to Tim Mathison for a while. Barry Jenner who played Evan on AW was one of my first crushes as a little gay tween. I thought he was so incredibly handsome. He, AMC's Nick Benedict (Phil) and OLTL's Jamison Parker (Brad) made me tingle "down there" and I had no idea why.
- Jennifer Leak sells Real Estate now, that according to Beverly Pemberthy
- The last I saw Leak she was on GL playing an old girlfriend of Quint McCord's.
- There were two characters from Rachel's past that I had hoped would have returned to make trouble in her marriage to Carl - her father Gerald Davis and Sven Peterson. Instead of that awful Justine story, we could have had Sven return to stab people and brick them up in a wall.
- Tell me about Sylvie, Iris' real mother.
- I remember the scene in which Iris, and the audience, learned Mac wasn't her bio father. Rachel had just given birth to Amanda. Mac was in the waiting room talking to someone (maybe Ada or Jamie or the doctor), and Iris overheard him saying that this was his first biological child. Of course, we'd meet Sandy and Paulina later on.
Ilsa Fredericks. My male escorts were for WOMEN ONLY.
- The Justine story should have been Rachel's sister Pammy returning to wreak havoc in Rachel's life.
- Forget Justine! I was the hammy storyline of the '90s! WHY ALLI! HAVE MY WIFE, I MEAN YOUR MOTHER, MEET ME IN THE GARDEN! COME WITH ME AMELIE BACK TO THE 18TH CENTURY!
- [quote] COME WITH ME AMELIE BACK TO THE 18TH CENTURY!
Bad Phantom ripoff and truly the death knell of AW. And the gorilla just hammered a rusty, insulting nail into the casket.
I know someone who was a part of the creative team at AW at the end and they said that NBC gave them ten days to finish the show. TEN FUCKING DAYS. Ain't THAT a kick in the cunt?
- Vicky Wyndham as Justine spoke like Maggie Smith. Quite a remarkable transformation. Love the Gregorian Chanting during her death scene.
- Who composed the final theme to AW?
- It's a shame they couldn't coax Beverlee into doing a cameo in the last episode of AW, showing up at the Cory mansion after Carl and Rachel shut off the lights.
- [quote] It's a shame they couldn't coax Beverlee into doing a cameo in the last episode of AW, showing up at the Cory mansion after Carl and Rachel shut off the lights.
R276, great idea.
When Beverlee was still alive...and it was rather apparent that Guiding Light wasn't gonna make it....I had a fantasy that there would be an Alex scene where Beverlee, Marj Dusay and Joan Collins would have all been in one room, toasting each other.
Alan would come in and say, "Alexandra?" And they'd all turn and say, "Yes?"
Fade to black.
- Let's talk about Anne Heche as Victoria Hudson Frame Harrison McKinnon... shall we? Would you say she filled a void that McKINSEY vacated?
- No one EVER could replace Bev.
That being said, I think Nancy Frangione and then later Anne did a great job of playing that icy bitch that the audience loved.
- Anne Heche was a real life Iris. Dad issues.
- Is anyone old enough to have gone to the play Lemay wrote which starred Bev and Connie as two spinster sisters or something like that? I don't think it got out of previews.
- R273, yeah, they rushed AW out of those soundstages very quickly because they were moving CBS's ATWT there (where they stayed until 2010).
- Nancy Fragione did a fantastic job in filling the void left by Iris. Judith McConnell was originally intended to be the show's new Iris, playing wealthy Cory neighbour Miranda Bishop (before she left for Houston, Iris even noted that Rachel had a new threat in Miranda that made it look like Iris didn't have to worry about Rachel and Mac ever being happy together). A Miranda-Mac-Rachel triangle fizzled very early in the projected storyline and Miranda was soon written out before very long. Later, Anna Stuart, fresh from her brief stint as snobby Vanessa Chamberlain over at P&G's GL, was brought aboard as a very Iris-like Donna Love, but she hardly did anything remotely catastrophic to anybody's lives to really deserve the title of the show's new Iris. The Iris-torch was really handed over to Cecile, beautifully in fact - Iris' last devious act in Bay City (breaking Cecile's heart by paying gigolo Philip Lyons to take her away from Dennis and embittering the young woman forever) was to ensure the place would have a torublemaker just like her to cause trouble for them for years.
- Stephen Yates (Ben McFarren, GL) was my favorite Jamie. He was the handsomest man on TV. Who else remembers him?
- Richard Bekins and Stephen Yates were the two best Jamies (they kinda looked, respectively, like Peter Love #1 and Peter Love #2). Never liked Russel Todd or Larry Lau.
- Oops, actually that was Peter Love numbers 1 and 3, and when I looked them up, they didn't look like Bekins and Yates as much as I remembered.
- Russell Todd wasn't terrible, but Larry Lau was the worst. He was totally miscast. They tried to reproduce Greg and Jenny with him and Kim Delaney lookalike Joanna Going, but it didn't work. Also, Jamie was such a complex character, especially with Bekins in the role. Maggie DePrist, who brought on Lau, wrote the character as a bland leading man, and Lau wasn't talented enough to bring any complexity to the role.
- Sylvie Kosloff was played by Tony-winning actress Leora Dana, who fit in beautifully with Lemay's AW. She had this wonderful deep smoker's voice that came in handy with playing Beverlee McKinsey's mother.
Iris got it into her head that her real parents were of an even more distinguished background than the Corys. At first, she clung to the hope that a wealthy Boston socialite by the name of Cornelia Exeter could be her mother; after telling everyone that she was more blue-blood than she thought, Iris was crestfallen to discover Cornelia was proven not to be her birth mother.
Enter Sylvie Kosloff, a clothes designer, who showed up at Mac's office one day telling him the lawyer who handled Iris' adoption informed her Iris may be the daughter she gave up years before. Sylvie was not a blue-blood, but a working woman (a shopkeeper, Iris would label her). When Sylvie contacted Iris for the first time, Iris hung up on her, calling the woman a lunatic. She was horrified to learn that Sylvie was of Jewish lineage (the Russian-Polish border they called it) and from a long line of tailors and dressmakers in New York's garment district - nothing could have been more horrid to the snobby WASPish Iris. Iris feared relatives would come out of the woodwork and descend on her looking for handouts and embarrassing her in front of all her upper-crust friends.
Sylvie and Iris shared a contentious relationship, with Sylvie tolerating Iris' moods and shenanigans, but she was a smart woman and knew when Iris was manipulating her, like the time Iris tried to use Sylvie's closeness with Dennis to influence his relationship choices. The elder woman let Iris know that she would not tolerate being used like that.
Sylvie , however, had two secrets that she feared Iris would find out about: Sylvie was a recovering alcholic, and that she had served time in prison for murdering Iris' biological father. On top of that, Iris had been born in prison! These secrets were discovered by ruthless Kirk Laverty, Iris' new beau who was using her to takeover Cory Publishing. Kirk blackmailed Sylvie into helping him in his schemes, but she opted to leave town. I believe this was the last time we ever saw Sylvie, and I do not recall if Iris ever found out about the truth of her origins. Btw, Lemay had already left by this time (he was gone shortly after Iris and Sylvie had started to get to know one another) and the story was in the hands of a new writer.
Years later in 1987, Iris returned to tell Mac she discovered she was his natural daughter after all; Mac had had an affair with Sylvie and he was too ashamed to let this be known, so Sylvie and he protected his wife's memory by not telling Iris the truth of her illicit conception. I don't know if this was Lemay's plan in his famous bible that he wrote which included Iris' return, or if it was the temporary writers in place during the strike at the time who made this rewrite, but it betrayed viewers who had been long-term and remembered that this was not at all possible. Sylvie's very first scenes were with Mac in his office introducing herself; they never met before and he was leery of her claims at first.
Another fun fact: Lemay originally started to set it up that Iris' long-time secretary and confidante Louise Goddard was her natural mother. At the onset of the Iris adoption story, Louise's background was being revealed to viewers; she opened up to Iris about growing up on a farm with her sister and the hardships they had to endure. Around the same time, one of Iris' friends remarked how a friend of theirs always mistook Louise for a Russian dowager, making Iris acknowledge Louise's graceful beauty for the first time. I don't know why he chose not to go this route.
- I remember Yates from GL, of course, and only briefly as Jaime. He was involved with the drug addict model Nicole Love. Writers after Bekins just didn't know how to write for the character. They always insisted on making him the generic good guy, using him as a staple rather than as an actual character with his own conflicts. Bekins enjoyed the best phase ever for that character.
- Also, forgot to add that Lemay wrote a scene in which Iris had a troubling dream that Louise was revealed to be her mother.
- Iris (about Ada's house): "I'm never comfortable in that dreary kitchen."
Therese Lamont: "We were in the living room, dear..."
Iris: "They have one?"
- Sorry - got it wrong about the Iris rewrite in 1987. Mac didn't know Iris was his daughter. He and Sylvie had an affair, and she gave their child (whom Mac didn't know existed) to Mac's wife, who never told Mac the truth about the daughter they adopted.
It still didn't work according to history: Mac and Sylvie had no idea who one another were when they first met in '78.
- I'd give anything for the entire Iris Saga to be on YT.
Bev was so amazing but I was so young I've forgotten more than I can remember.
- There exists not a finer example of Asperger Syndrome than this thread.
- r288 Many thanks for the Iris-Sylvie refresher. I was watching for most of it, but had forgotten many of the nuances you wrote about so eloquently.
- The twist of haughty Iris actually being born in prison is comic genius. God, I would have loved to have seen that. Absolutely brilliant. Delightful.
- Iris reacts to a bust of Mac being destroyed:
- Sylvie threatening Iris:
- The busted bust of Mac: Rachel sculpted a bust of Mac that Iris stole from her and kept in her living room like a shrine. I believe Iris had inadvertently (?) caused Rachel's miscarriage and Mac disowned her. Iris idolized this bust in her morbid obsession with losing her father. At the time she was married to Robert Delaney, who had fathered a child out of wedlock before he married Iris with waitress Clarice Hobson. After she married Robert, Iris found out about the unborn baby and tormented Clarice that she would ruin her if she didn't give the baby to her. Mac befriended Clarice and ended up becoming her protector against Iris' campaign to terrorize Clarice. When Robert discovered Iris' campaign against Clarice, he went beserk and trashed the house. He slashed the portrait Iris had of herself over the fireplace and then smashed Mac's bust to the floor, shattering it in many pieces. Iris was devastated. Robert made a comment that Mac was the only man she would ever love and walked out on his wife.
- And, of course, Leora Dana was for a time the stepmother of Datalounge heroine Susie (Kasznar) Lee, who I wish would come back.
- I have a theory that the lost 1970s episodes are laying in a parking lot somewhere, like King Richard III.
- I love this Connie Ford thread.
- R301, do you have anything to base that on? I've been told by two people who know that the tapes were taped over.
- r299 - that is so perverse and gothic, like a Victorian novel. Brilliant!!! Harding lemay is clearly some kind of genius.
- Leon Russom, who played Willis Frame, was married to Little House's Karen Grassle for several years.
The Other M
- God, I'd kill to see a Connie/Bev scene. Each alone was mesmerizing. Could only imagine how great they'd be in a scene together.
- [quote]I believe Iris had inadvertently (?) caused Rachel's miscarriage and Mac disowned her.
IIRC, Rachel was at the Cory Mansion, in pain, and phoned Mac, who was at Iris' penthouse. Iris made some snide comment and refused to put Mac on the phone. She hung up on Rachel and Rachel collapsed on the floor.
- R303, tape wiping was common with all soaps, not just AW, until the mid-'70s.
- ABC, P&G et al didn't start saving episodes until around 1979. I believe that Ryan's Hope and Dark Shadows are the only soaps from the '60s & '70s on any network with all of their episodes in tact. RH was owned by creators Claire Labine and Paul Avila Mayer, and they saved all of their tapes. Dan Curtis saved almost all of the DS episodes. They're pretty much all available, except for a few kinescopes and 1 or 2 episodes where only the audio is available.
- My reaction to the wiping of the 70s episodes:
- "Dennis, you are NOT applying to Bay STATE!!!!"
- Some Ada flashbacks in Vicky Wyndham's 25th anniversary episode:
- Countess Elena DePouglinac: I'm delighted to make your acquaintance, Mrs. McGowan.
Ada: Hiya Countess.
- Connie Ford as Ada could be tough as nails and then be quite sympathetic. A couple of years back there was a very touching scene on youtube from '73 or thereabouts that has since been deleted in which Ada attempts to comfort her daughter's rival Alice after Steve and Alice break up. It's just a very moving scene. The scene does nothing to advance the plot...it's just a beautifully written character vignette. Fuck all the plot stunts and CGI crashes. It was these character moments that are what soap opera should be all about. I know, MARY!, but I miss these types of scenes.
- Days, YR, Ryan's Hope, Dark Shadows, and The Doctors all have their full catalogs. I know that a few years ago Corday began digitizing the Days catalog, but ran out of money to continue.
There are private collections with lots of 70s soaps that have been wiped elsewhere, but they don't share.
- I saw that scene on YT too, r314, and I totally agree with you. It was a beautiful scene. Those moments were what made these characters a necessary part of our everyday lives. We were looking in on other people lived. Now we have reality shows who give us an inflated lie about what life is really like.
- You can buy video recordings of AW episodes from the 60s and 70s off the AW Homepage site. Looks kind of awkward to watch them from such a standpoint, but it's better than nothing.
In the August 15, 1975, it looks like sexy young David Ackroyd (who played Dave Gilchrist) has a beefcake pool scene.
- In these stills, you can see the Robert trashing Iris' house episode is among those available for purchase:
- Here's a full episode from 1974 for purchase:
- More info on those Golden Age tapes:
- I feel quite comfortable at this point in being able to identify the one rambling about plot points from 1976 as the guy who runs that AW website, Eddie something from Canada.
- Tee-hee ... I am not Eddie, but I was thinking people were going to think that I was. I actually live in the same city as Eddie, and have conversed with him. He's a nice guy.
- I was watching AW when Mac & Iris first appeared, in early 1973. Mac was played by Robert Emhardt, a short, ugly character actor who specialized in either sinister masterminds or comic relief -- Iris was just a snobby bitch, no daddy fixation.
A year or less later, Mac suddenly became a suave, handsome, gentleman who charmed evil Rachel so much that she transformed into a devoted pillar of the community. Accordingly, Emhardt was replaced by Douglass Watson & Iris' relationship with her daddy became more (ahem) complex.
Can't find a picture online of Emhardt & Beverlee McKinsey together -- but you'll recognize him at the link, he was in everything for years.
- Thanks r323. I never knew there was a previous Mac. That guy played in a ton of Twilight Zones and Alfred Hitchcocks in the '60s.
What do we know about what Linda Dano's up to now ?
I adore her and she used to be very active on TV be it as a guest host on daytime TV or what not.
I miss her and hope she's no longer battling depression.