Have you visited this city?
Or Bay City, or Springfield, or Oakdale, or Henderson....?
If you have, let us know your itinerary, and who you met there.
Come aboard....we're expecting you!
More about Beverlee McKinsey....?
I have. They're all the same. The outdoors looks really artificial, nobody really works but sit home dressed up in the semi-dark all day discussing their problems, and the men all have big pecs and don't wear shirts very often.
Oakdale is notorious for its eavesdropping porches.
R3 And for farm boys wearing tight jeans with bare feet!
I used to be an All My Children viewer back in the '70s. So one day, when visiting San Diego, I was driving east on I-8 and was surprised to find myself in a town called Pine Valley! Unfortunately, there was no Erica to be found.
In the pond, R5, and in the hayloft.
In Springfield, anything worth talking about takes place in the "Freshening Up" room at the Country Club.
Or in Phillip Spaulding's boxer shorts.
Oh, oh, oh, I am going to have to freshen up, R8. Phillip Spaulding's boxers. Oh, oh, oh.
Phillip is a low hangin' man.
I fucked Draper Scott
Charles Keating......an incredibly elegant man with a charming pedigree and a mellifluous. He had at least one problem or two. His hair either looked like it needed to be washed OR he badly needed a haircut!
BTW he is still chums with Victoria Camargo AKA Victoria Wyndham from his Another World days.Vicky Wyndham is Mexican...who knew?
a mellifluous voice.
It will be so fabulous to get back to Llanview this spring I can hardly wait!
R8, any good stories?
R15 Just one. I've said it before on here, and I'll say it again.
I was at an event that GA and several other GL folks were at. I was using the mens room (far left urinal, of course) and Grant came in as I was midstream and stood two urinals away.
I saw about eight seconds at the urinal (while he talked to a third guy in the room a few urinals to his right.
He was bigger soft than any person I've seen before. I was lucky he was talking to the other guy as he would have otherwise noticed how bug eyed I was at seeing his cock. I can only imagine what it would be like at full mast.
I always liked him before but as you can imagine that experience....shall we say, enhanced my appreciation.
GA had the sexiest feet on a man I've ever seen. He thought they were the ugliest.
Bring me another lover ...
Margo Huntington Dorn, fixing her wig
When in Monticello, avoid a restaurant called the Rock Garden.
It is a dive. A D-I-V-E, dive.
WEHT to Victoria Wyndham. IEverytime I came home from school she was always on the TV. My mother was glued to that set and the many problems of Rachel Cory.
Monticello, Utah? Yeah. Good place to stay if you're visiting Canyonlands National Park.
GL chat moved from other thread:
"Alex and HB were having more than little dates here and there - they had a major romance (engaged to be married) that was a major factor in the famous Spaulding takeover story in the late 80s - a part of Pam Long's second stint as HW.
If she did complain about Alex's romance with HB, I couldn't blame her. That aged Alex considerably, and it just didn't fit with Alex's penchant for bad boys (her Gothic relationship with her brother Alan, Eric, Locke Walls, Ross, Warren, Roger, and bad boy-turned-good adventurer Fletcher Reade). It was lke Alex fucking her grandfather."
You remember this better than me. I knew there was a dead period for Alexandra between when Lujack died and when she was on the island with Fletcher and Roger....where aside from being the matriarch/business head they just didn't write much for her and the stabs at romance were kind of lame.
(This, aside from the absolute annihilation of the character from 2002-ish on.)
R20 She moved out to LA in order to do primetime TV acting.She had meetings about her writing as well. She didn't even get a role out there....... she appeared on one of the Law and Orders in 2007. She's doing painting and sculpture. Her son ,Christian Camargo, is doing films now.
It was hard for her to be the top banana and then become just another actress fighting for a job.
Didn't Vicki do a Love Letters thing with George Reinholt recently?
I thought George Reinholt died?
Victoria did a stage thing with the suave Charles Keating. They are still good friends.
She did Love Letters with Charles Keating. There have been rumours about their friendship for years. But there are also rumours Keating is gay, so VW is just his fag hag.
Keating's been married to the same woman for 50 years. He's had two kids with her.Victoria and Charles are just friends. Yeah, I know that one can be bi-sexual or gay and be married,fair enough.
Keating is a pleasant enough actor but he is the very definition of ratface. I could never understand how anyone would want to fuck him. Guess his leading ladies have been better actresses than we even knew!!!
R29, it's that British charm. Girls are turned on with foreign guys with exotic accents. A guy who is mediocre looking becomes hot to them.
After Lujack died, Alex was given the very silly Simon the Magician storyline. Although it was beneath McKinsey, she turned in consistantly wonderful performances during it (McKinsey always did no matter what). Although Alex never seemed to have a major character-driven story until Roger's return, McKinsey was always front-and-centre: after Lujack's death, Alex took over Spaulding with a vengeance and wanted to use it to destroy Sampson-Lewis; she played Upstairs/Downstairs politics with her assistant Calla's romance with Ross; and enjoyed a fascinating relationship with Simon and then another oneupmanship with brother Alan when Christopher Bernau returned. I think it suited McKinsey, who never really wanted to work alot. One of those rare top-notch professionals who worked hard but didn't want to. Her biggest complaint near the end of her run was that JFP was working her to death (not to mention turning her character into another Iris).
As for McKinsey's romances on the show, they included Ross Marler, Warren Andrews, a brief flirtation with Mike Bauer (setting up a triangle with Lillian that ended abruptly with Don Stewart's firing), Locke Walls, Dr. Mark Jarrett (Keir Dullea), H.B. Lewis, Fletcher Reade, and Roger Thorpe. Warren was the main man in her life for years before Roger and Fletcher took that role. But above them all was her brother Alan. When Alan became involved with Reva, Alex's neurtoic love for her brother became even more apparent. But it worked - there was something wonderfully romantic about McKinsey and Bernau that Raines and Dusay never had.
Btw, McKinsey wanted her best friend Daniel Davis (THE NANNY) to play Alan after Bernau passed away, but producers went with Daniel Pilon. Apparently, McKinsey and Pilon didn't get along, but McKinsey wasn't one to let personal feelings interfere with a job. It was one of those rare occassions when even a top-notch professional couldn't make it work. Pilon and McKinsey had absolutely no chemistry.
Was always surprised to hear that she and Mary Kay Adams really had no other occassio to interact other than the scenes they played together. They were absolute MAGIC onscreen, Adams being one of the best ever screen foils for McKinsey. But according to Adams, they never got to know each other. They did their scenes and that was that.
Fascinating stuff R31. I've watched GL for years but had forgotten some of the specific's of Alex's stories. I remember her being a foil for Alan-Michael and Harley.
Interesting that McKinsey seemed to shine in stories about family love, and a few of her stories - Iris and "Daddy," and Alex with Alan and then with Lujack and especially with Nick/Mindy - had incestuous undertones, or at least a very intense dedication to family.
Vicky was complicated, to say the least. Mainly because she was treated so poorly by George and Jacquie when she first started on the show. Their behavior was unprofessional and at times mean towards her and this was way before Pete decided to remake the show around her character. She had just left GL, which was a rather calm and collegial set compared to AW at that time and was surprised at the antics of George and Jacquie. George, Jacquie, and Robin ran that set like their own fiefdom. Deeming who could or couldn't be a part of their clique.
After George and Jacqui were dispensed with and the show was hers, Vicky's attitude softened. She was very close to both Paul (whom she slept with) and Pete and had a brief affair with Doug. She adored Connie. Vicky and Bev had a professional relationship. They weren't best friends or enemies, but there was professional respect.
She hated the 90 minute format, but they gave her so much money that she went along with it and negotiated a great schedule for herself, but hurt the show because Bev had negotiated a similar deal and often times their schedules meant they had very few scenes together. Same with Doug.
She hated when Pete was fired. When Paul 'moved on' she took it very hard. In the following years she became increasingly angry with the network, feeling that NBC didn't want or appreciate the show. She never held PG accountable for anything, she believed that everything wrong with the show was NBC. She was completely right or wrong in that one.
She adored Charles Keating. They were rumored to have been involved, but it has never proven one way or the other. NBC hated Rachel and Carl and that infuriated her. She wasn't a fan of Jensen Buchanan, but respected Anne Heche's talent.
Vicky was never a diva in the way Susan Hayes or Kim Zimmer or Susan Lucci were divas. She detested lazy and she detested rude and she detested entitled.
She is a fascinating lady who doesn't suffer fools.
A beautiful post, Lahoma, R33. I wish I'd been able to watch during the Pete years.
Caught Connie Ford on a Perry Masone episode on MeTV last night. She was great, of course, and played the same type of bitter, cold, frigid woman she'd played in A Summer Place a few years earlier. I gather she was tough as nails IRL and could probably reduce a fellow actor to tears if she saw fit. I doubt she suffered fools very easily.
Connie Ford. I've never seen her in anything but Another World. Ada made me like Jake.
Oh, when Ada died...
Compilation of Connie scenes from A Summer Place. The movie is wretched, but she is fascinating to watch and steals every scene.
Ms Vane, Ms Vicky does blame NBC for everything and she's wrong. She claimed that NBC wanted ownership of AW. On its surface, that seems like an OK premise BUT Days is owned by Sony and it's still on!Corday and Company have made adjustments and worked with Days on keeping the show on. It seems that P and G wasn't successful with either CBS or NBC in keeping any of their shows on.
One more thing, Ms Vicky Camargo is fine financially. She was smart with her money and doesn't have to work.What's sad is that she didn't become a character actress of some sort or another. She could have done star turns on many silly TV shows.
Thanks, Ada's Dish Towel, R37. I will watch that.
And yes, R38. I would have watched any such star turns. Vicky even made Justine enjoyable.
[quote] I wish I'd been able to watch during the Pete years.
The best of AW was like several of the best years of ATWT under Doug Marland.
It transcended soap. It was repertory theater, and it was people you knew.
R35, re: Connie Ford on Perry Mason, The Case of the Shifty Shoebox (1963) is scheduled for Tuesday night @ 11:30 eastern, also on MeTV.
I love the story about Connie that I think Harding Lemay tells - where she looks at a long monologue he wrote for her in the script.
She says (paraphrasing): "What the fuck is this shit," tears up the script and then proceeds to do the scene with five lines and some evil stink eye - and as he says, "nailed perfectly what I wanted."
Thanks for the head's up, r41. Perry Mason is my new guilty pleasure before going to bed, and it's always fun to see which character actor or future star will pop up in an episode. Connie was also on a Twilight Zone shown last week. She really made the rounds before AW came calling.
R40, R42, R43/R35 -
I never expected to find such a deep love for Bay City as my own in this thread. Very nice.
R40, Marland's ATWT was the best soap I ever watched. I so wish there'd been VCRs in the early '70s. Truth is, though, I didn't watch TV, day or night, during the '70s.
Thanks, you guys.
Anyone in NYC have any good first- or second-hand Joel Crothers stories? From what I've read, he was very promiscuous during the '60s and '70s. He definitely worked that porn stache in the '70s.
R44 I grew up on AW, then GL and ATWT. I was definitely a PGP soapaholic!
It is terrible that all of the early tapes of Edge of Night have been wiped out. Talk about a great show to syndicate in late night.
For awhile the USA network aired repeats of Edge from the ABC days in the 80s.
My girl crush on AW was Joanna Going, God she was so gorgeous and fabulous. I would go straight for that Irish/Italian hussy in a hot second.I liked the pairing with Larry Lau. Even though he was better on AMC with Kim Delaney I still liked him on AW though. Anne Heche vs Wheeler vs Buchanan? The most gorgeous was Ms Buchanan. She was supposedly a bitch though. Anne Heche had an edge to her that was quite good. Wheeler had a vulnerability in her reading of the characters that set a standard.
I could never get into Marland's ATWT. There was something very cold and antiseptic about the show. I preferred his GL work. Harding Lemay's AW is the gold standard for soap writing. As another poster wrote, it transcended soap opera. While Marland was really good, I think that his writing, much like the great Nixon and Bell, never really quite transcended the genre.
R49 There were periods of greatness for Marland's ATWT. The problem is that he was fighting the network and PGP a lot. When they got out of his way he delivered.
He was also really hobbled around '88 by the writers' strike and by three of his leading ladies leaving all at once.
Springfield's a shithole. There are no dressing rooms.
Springfield should be renamed Shitfield. It's literally a Mormon community in the middle of nowhere.
The NYC studio had dressing rooms. Peapack had one big room that looked like some grandma's empty attic.
Henry Slesar used to have some of the best parties. He was fucking one of his Edge actresses and she shows up at his holiday fete dressed to the nines in a stunning fur coat - paid for by Slesar. She was young and from the midwest and Edge was one of her early gigs. Jan knows the score and then proceeds to throw the 1970s version of shade at the actress all night. The actress, who went on to later success on a couple of other shows, gets drunk off of her ass and is about to make a scene when Henry begs John Lagioia to get her out of the party. The actress was written off the show soon after and Slesar's marriage went kaboom.
Marland's GL from late 85 through '90 was great.
I would love liked to have seen him go back to AW (and revive the Matthews clan) or go to OLTL (Slezak!) or even back to GH.
r55, I think you mean ATWT from 85-90. I think he could've done wonders for AW, but by the mid-90s he probably would've faced so much network interference that his stories would've been watered down and his trademark "recap" scenes truncated. Marland, like Nixon, essentially offered a contemporary spin on traditional, family-based storytelling, so I don't see him gelling at OLTL, which was almost always OTP story after OTP story, even during the Malone years. By the mid/late 90s, I don't think his style would've fit with any of the ABC shows, which had gotten more and more away from their roots.
[quote](AW) transcended soap. It was repertory theater, and it was people you knew.
Any scene with any combination of Vicky Wyndham, Doug Watson and Bev McKinsey was sheer magic. I especially loved the fights between Rachel and Mac -- they could be vicious with each other. And Wyndham was a much scarier Rachel than Strasser!
LeMay said that Strasser didn't have the acting range to transition Rachel from villainess to heroine as Wyndham had. He said that Strasser can be very good but is often melodramatic in her acting. I kind of agree. Even Robin at her best, when she tones down the camp and attempts to reveal some truth about her character, comes off as overly dramatic. I don't think she would've been able to hold her own with Bev and Doug, and certainly couldn't have made us sympathize with LeMay's softer version of Rachel. I know, I know...MARY!
Marland's ATWT WAS cold.. but not in the way the show became later, under that fat slob Hogan and others, where everyone was disconnected and you never believed Oakdale was a community. His ATWT very family soap, but it just was his idea of family was very WASPY and always, always polite. Only the bad characters, and Lucinda and sometimes Lisa, would say bitchy things about other people, and while everyone was up in everyone's business, heated arguments were not called for. But who could forget his formula which to this day I think of as ATWT, everyone walking in and out of Kim and Bob's house no matter the time or day to tell the latest news, plain Jane women having the hunky stud in love with them, the line, "honesty is the most important part of a relationship," despite everyone lying about everything, and EVERYONE worried about how Lily would feel about a recent development.
Today would have been Guiding Light's 76th anniversary. It debuted January 25, 1937.
What about Nancy Curlee's Guiding Light in the early 90s? Surely that was the greatest soap opera has ever been?
The death of Maureen Bauer was possibly the greatest storyline I ever saw on GL (viewer from 1980-end)...but it, of course, damaged the show beyond repair and the show never recovered (though bringing in Mary Stuart as Meta was a good effort later on).
and what about the whole story with Holly's unhealthy relations with Roger Thorpe, being emotionally dependent on Ed and Ross and Ross fucking her daughter Blake - sexy Sherry Stringfield? AMAZING TIMES!!!
R61 I liked that period of GL but I preferred the Gloria Monty reign of terror on GH in the 80s.As over the top as it was, the actors and the scripts fit the soap perfectly.
On GL,I never liked Harley. I means she's a pretty girl but there's something phony about the girl as well. I can't put my finger on it.
Robin Strasser is the queen of camp. Even when Erica Slezak did the schizo/multiple roles she couldn't come close in sheer camp.Look at what Strasser did on Passions,she made Dorian seem sedate. Elaine Princi was cute but she was too sane to be Dorian. RS had that sense of humor that fit the role perfectly didn't she?
Why do people in New York pronounce their town monti-SELLO.
On "GL" the fire house, street and "Welcome To" signs were filmed in Springfield, New Jersey.
The Somerset County Courthouse exterior in Somerville, New Jersey was used on the "AW" spin-off.
Maureen's death could have been 'fixed' or salvaged if the writers had brought Claire Ramsey back to town to try to be Michelle's mother right after Maureen died.
Then, hire a matronly figure to be that maternal figure Bert was and that Maureen was after her.
I lived in Capital City and you fools don't know fun, period.
My adopted daughter Lily is always disapproving of me. It hurts me because she acts like I'm some kind of schemer.
Well, I'm off to the Mona Lisa for drinks and a late lunch. I invited Lily, but I doubt that she'll show up.
R69 Lucinda you were the ultimate ,MILF. I was gayer than Paul Lynde but when I saw you I became a hot blooded hetero horn dog!Your daughter was cute especially when she played that Italian American doppelganger but you oozed sex.Not to mention fabulousness. There was something vicious about you similar to the way Monica Quartermaine was......that little bit of cuntiness was just enough to declare your queenhood.
Everyone talks about the death of Maureen Bauer was the beginning of the end for GL, but I really doubt that precipitated the severe quality and ratings decline throughout the next 15 years.
They brought Claire Ramsey on too late, after they SORASED Michelle and GL was in the hands of incompetents (production, not writing); Claire Labine wanted to take GL back to a coffe table type drama but was given characters that just didn't fit the coffee table mode. Carmen and Edmund were over-the-top and Danny and Michelle and Richard and Cassie were superficial manufactured supercouples. Claire was brought back before Labine was hired; the previous writers wanted to rewrite history and make Rick the biological father of Michelle; for some reasonthat was changed at the last minute and Claire and Rick's big secret was that he wasn't a doctor after all. I don't know if that was Labine's work or not, but she was clashing with Paul Rauch the minute she started working. He was corporate mouthpiece and she was old school soap writer and it just wasn't working. I remember there were some fascinating scenes between Claire and Abigail that signaled some great story to come, but the actress who played Abby decided to leave and the Claire return was used to write Abby's exit.
Then Claire was dating Alan in a very uninspired match, scheming with and against Carmen, and hanging around until she just disappeared.
Claire should have been brought back immediately following Maureen's death, and if there had been anyone who could have threatened Ed's biological claim on Maureen, it was Fletcher. An Ed-Maureen-Fletcher-Claire quadrangle would have had enough material to help continue GL's already established history.
I've always been one of those in the minority that killing Maureen bauer was not the deathknell for GL. It was soap writing at it's most risky, t's most powerful, it's most involving. The execution of its aftermath was what killed it. This should have opened up story for years (Claire's return, Michelle's evolvement into an unhappy new heroine over time); instead, it was dropped for Ed and Eve's romance and soon under new management, Michelle was recast with a bubble-headed blonde teenager who was showing off her T and A, which led to new writers turning her into a part of a new supercouple. Ed was written off and disappeared for years. Rick was hardly ready to fill the shoes of patriarch. Hiring Mary Stuart was a stroke of genius (what with her iconic status at P&G, CBS and soap opera in general), but story for the Bauers just never made sense without an intact family. If they didn't have Ed, they should have brought Uncle Mike back to step in his mother Bert's shoes while his Aunt Meta took on the role previously held by her father, Papa Bauer.
The continual disintegration of the Bauer family hurt GL. It was never the same again not after Maureen was killed, but after the poor execution of her death.
r64, there was an energy that GH had back in the 80s and through on to the end of Monty's first run that has never been matched. Actors, writers, producers, stories - everything was on the top of their game. It was great stuff.
Who was the asshat that rewrote one of the GL's top 10 of all time storylines - Amanda?
[quote]there was an energy that GH had back in the 80s and through on to the end of Monty's first run that has never been matched.
That energy was from all the coke that Gloria was allowing on that set.
I think that was Megan McT who re-wrote Amanda's history; ridiculous!
They should have brought back Kathleen Cullen with her hottie son, Matthew, fathered by hunky Mark Evans.
And kept her as Alan's daughter -- not Brandon's.
If Maureen didn't get killed off, James E. Reilly (Passions) would never have won an Emmy.
He won his first and only Emmy for the writing of her death
Im agree, r72. GL needed the warm matriarch that was Bert and then was Maureen (Ellen Parker's not Ellen Dolan's). That character is the primary audience's touchstone. ATWT had Nancy and Kim. GL shot itself in the foot killing Maureen without a character left behind to fill that role.
Maureen being killed off was just dumb.
The thing that I really loved about GL and ATWT (and AW) was the warmth of the characters. Bob and Kim could be someone's parents down the street. Maureen was very warm and the core of the show.
It wasn't Maureen's death per se, but just the continuous decimation of any of the warmer characters or any story that wasn't about much darker themes (the mob stories, etc.)
GL got it right a few times during its last decade or so, and was finally getting the balance right again when it was cancelled.
Jill needed the money from Ellen Parker's salary.
[quote] Jill needed the money from Ellen Parker's salary.
And that's my main problem with JFP.
She's an excellent producer in terms of the look of the show. She has made the sets, the look, etc. better on every single show she's been on.
But her emotional skills as a producer...well, it's as if every room was decorated with ultra modern minimalist touches everywhere. It may look fantastic, but it's cold and sterile. As Y&R is becoming now.
Was Monticello NY the Monticello in The Edge of Night? I believe so but I was very young when it went off the air. Monticello is the gateway to Sullivan County which still hasn't recovered from the closing of all those old resorts in the 70s. Nothing about it is glamorous I cannot picture Raven or Skye shopping at the strip malls there.
I don't think it was Monticello NY, R82.
It was originally supposed to be Cincinnati (P&G's headquarters) and the Cincy skyline is in some of the opening credits.
I ****love***** this theme. Always thought this could be brought back as a show, especially with the recent resurgence in crime procedurals.
(and Lois Kibbee!)
R81, not to nitpick, but how can it look both 'fantastic' and 'cold and sterile?'
R84, I meant it might be really pleasing to the eye but not have any warmth to it.
R73 It hasn't been topped since. Yes, DOOL brought a James Bond element with Shane(A UK version of Aussie Robert Scorpio),Roman , Tony DiMera (who was a nicer version of GH's own Victor Cassadine)and John Black and it was fun BUT nothing was like The Ice Princess saga.Which culminated in the big surprise at Luke and Laura's wedding....no not Liz Taylor showing up BUT Scotty returning to fight Luke! That was a cool shock, I thought he was that AW spinoff,Texas!
R81 When have the Bell soaps NOT been cold and sterile? Compared to the other CBS soaps , namely the old P&G soaps they were relatively cold.GL and ATWT really had a much warmer feeling with very good acting. Look at what happened to Eileen Davidson when she went back to Days. She was like a robot on Y and R then seemed re-energized on Days. It was like she was really having fun for a change.
One more thing,Sony let Jilly spend money on the show?!She must have the biggest line of bull in the business because they are extremely cost conscious. She must have some dirt on a Sony exec or two....
R81 and R86, the warmest thing about Y&R was always the orange juice and flowers on the Abbott breakfast table that signified the start of a new day.
R86 You're right, the Bell shows have always been a bit cooler, but Jill makes her shows film noirish - all crime and grit and no heart.
I don't know how she got the money but she's been spending it like mad. Burning down the ranch, Victor's new penthouse and Avery's new condo....crazy.
R88, have they redecorated Brad and Cassandra's house? Or the Chancellor LR? That's where the JFP bucks should be going.
I haven't watched in a few years. I'm waiting until some more FOJs show up. Jill, if you're reading, that includes Kevin M., Tim G., Kale B., and maybe even Anna S. and Vicky W.
Oooh, Anna Stuart would be most welcome.
Would Anna or Vicky be FOJs, though?
Even I'm kinda liking this thread. Carry on.
People on soaps don't lock doors when they leave the house and never have to use the bahroom at home.
the writing needed fixing on Y&R; the rest of it didn't.
The writing on Y&R has always kind of sucked. When Bill Bell was still alive, and on into the Kay Alden years, the dialogue was embarrassingly bad. If it hurt that much to listen to, imagine how much the actors hated it. I literally couldn't watch the show more than once a week. Somewhere in there, I know they made Katherine and Jill not only mother and daughter, but best friends. The best enemy dyad this side of Viki and Dorian, and they make them friends?
If I hadn't already stopped watching, I would have, but I had, and so I stayed until the End of Alden.
Who came next? LML? That's when it felt interesting again for the first time in a long time. I was in the minority who liked the LML period. And I liked it a lot. The scripts were smart for the first time since the pilot episode. I liked Jewish Brad and his mother. I liked the art story. I liked the Victoria recast.
And then, as if CBS wanted to kill and bury the show, they brought MAB on. It soon became so bad, I simply couldn't watch any longer. I may watch again once JFP brings some more friends back.
Y&R's popularity has always been confusing. The show moves so f u c k i n g slow. The catfights have always been the best thing about it. Sheila and Lauren's catfights were legendary. And Dru cussing somebody out.
I always thought that they should have brought back Hope Bauer to GL. She would have made a great matriarch after the death of Maureen. Plus, I loved Elvira Roussel.
I knew AW was history when I watched the hour-long episode where Frankie was stalked, chased through the woods, punched in the face, and then, strangled to death. I never really even cared much for Frankie, but the idea that they approved that episode to air told me that no one at NBC and P&G gave two shits about the show or its viewers.
R97 I would have brought Hope back, and India too.
R98 Yeah, that was gross. I wasn't an AW fan by that time but it just seemed so over the top.
Y&R did have a sophistication and opulence to it that kept viewers hooked. The Sheila Carter/Cassandra Rawlins years was clearly Bell's creative peak. Remember when Heather Tom first joined the show, she had that Electra complex for her dad and hated Ashley (Brenda Epperson) with the passion. It was more heightened, elemental drama on Y&R which is why it was number 1.
Sheila was a great camp creation. Camp because she was so serious and would go to any extreme to get what she wanted.
It's always interesting to me to see who likes what version of what character.
I prefer Jess Walton as Jill on Y&R, but some people love Brenda Dickson for the camp.
So many characters where the differences are really far apart - always interesting to hear who someone likes and why.
I remember that moron Lynn Leahy would go on shows like E!'s Pure Soap (remember hostess Shelly Taylor Morgan in her bare feets sitting Indian-style?) and say soaps were all about "romance, romance, romance." WRONG. Soaps certainly needed romance as a component but what viewers really wanted was to see generations of families interacting with each other. Days' obsession with supercouples led to a severe erosion in its quality and ratings later on.
[SWINGS CURTAIN OF HAIR FROM SIDE TO SIDE] Anytime [SWINGS CURTAIN OF HAIR FROM SIDE TO SIDE] they [SWINGS CURTAIN OF HAIR FROM SIDE TO SIDE] brought [SWINGS CURTAIN OF HAIR FROM SIDE TO SIDE] back [SWINGS CURTAIN OF HAIR FROM SIDE TO SIDE] Sheila, [SWINGS CURTAIN OF HAIR FROM SIDE TO SIDE] I [SWINGS CURTAIN OF HAIR FROM SIDE TO SIDE] stopped [SWINGS CURTAIN OF HAIR FROM SIDE TO SIDE] watching. [SWINGS CURTAIN OF HAIR FROM SIDE TO SIDE]
Very astute, R103. Scott DeFreitas was once asked why he thought ATWT was successful, and he said it was because it pinged people's fantasy of "a multi-generational family that worked." To hell with the supercouple.
What did HE know, R105?
R105, that's why many people look upon Marland's 1985-1990 ATWT era as its best. The Snyder kitchen at Thanksgiving and the Hughes living room at Christmas-I'm sure many people yearn for that sense of family again.
A main reason why UK soaps like Coronation Street are still so massively popular is because they center on families and households and not romance.
I sure did R107. I kind of wish I lived in Oakdale. Especially when Hank came out as gay.
I loved Lucinda and Kim and Frannie...and all the Synders.
[quote]Days' obsession with supercouples led to a severe erosion in its quality and ratings later on.
Not true. During the romance era, you still had Tom and Alice right there with the couples. Alice would be right in the middle of the storylines. In spite of all of the adventures and spys, they still got together with Tom and Alice at Thanksgiving and Christmas to put up those Christmas Balls and Tom would read the Xmas story and say the prayer at Thanksgiving.
Dear Lord! This is the thread of my dreams.
Bay City, Springfield and Oakdale meant more to me than words could say.
Harding Lemay is still alive. Any idea what he's up to ?
MARY! I know
R110 We Love Soaps did an interview with him two years ago or so, here's the link.
Hulu started airing Coronation Street this week.
Lee Godart was one of the sexiest pigs ever.
R109, those would be the ONLY times Days would do family-oriented stuff. ATWT, GL, Y&R and AW was much more about families. Days was all about supercouples and they were completely unapologetic about it. It has never been #1, even at its "peak" in the 1980s.
I love that Harding Lemay says that Jill Farren Phelps is the best thing in soaps.
From that Harding Lemay interview:
[quote] I was also taught a great lesson the first month I was at ANOTHER WORLD by Connie Ford, who played Ada. I had written a final tag speech in one of the crucial scenes. And when I got to the rehearsal, Connie cut the entire speech and did just one line from it. Now she was a wonderful actress, a very laconic actress, and didn’t need a lot of language. And I realized something: you write to what the actor does. And I never overwrote a scene for her again.
[quote] I could write anything for Beverlee McKinsey, she could use language any way you wanted her to. Or Irene Dailey (Liz Matthews). Or Annie Meachum (Louise Brooks). And Douglass Watson. But Connie taught me how to write for television. On that one day, she also read a line I had written. She knew I was in the control booth, and looked right in the camera and said, “Whatever the fuck that means.”
We Love Soaps: After you left ANOTHER WORLD, Beverlee McKinsey was spun off to TEXAS [as Iris Cory]. What did you think about that?
Harding Lemay: I think that was a big mistake because it didn’t use her correctly. I mean Bevey was a wonderful actress, and she had an edge. That edge was used best in a somewhat unsympathetic part. They made her very sympathetic in TEXAS, and it didn’t work. And she knew it. She told me once that she made a big mistake, but she made a lot of money. [Laughs] And that’s what interested her. She was a delight to work with.
R109 is right there were a lot of family oriented stories and conflicts on Days. The Johnson family story of abuse, the conflict between the Brady brothers the secret of Bo's paternity, all very good stories that were a great launch for the supercouples.
Douglas Marland was the best head writer ever but in no way was the super couple era on Days badly written.
What hurt Days was James Reilly. He couldn't tell a story he created shocking stories for sweeps with no reverence for the characters.
R118, I wasn't a huge fan of Reilly's, but I can't deny he brought the show ratings.
When Carrie smacked Sami at her almost re-wedding to Austin in 1997, DAYS hit 6.9, nipping at Y&R's butt (7.2.)
R114 The zenith of Days was when it hit a strong number 2 in the 1990s. James Reilly really camped it up to the nth degree in where Days became The Eileen Davidson Show meets The Exorcist! The younger demographic really responded to Days. Hey it was crazy BUT wasn't as nuts as the Eterna storyline on OLTL was it? On Days in the 80s,they added that spy/action/adventure BUT the Hortons were still around and The Bradys became more prominent as well.
Y and R is cold,sterile and slow moving. Three deadly sins that have served it well.Those are ironically attributes that fans actually like about it. Ms Brenda Dickson was a breath of fresh air. She was camp personified. Jess Walton is technically a better actress BUT she's been Bellified! Just like Eileen Davidson playing Ashley with a cold restraint, her Kristen on Days is deliciously fun. It's almost like the actors on B & B and Y & R become a part of a cult and when they leave they start to become a normal human being again!
Oh,how bad was Kin Shriner on Texas? I was watching the ABC soaps religiously at the time and I never caught him on that show. I did see him wear a ten gallon hat somewhere and he looked like a damned fool!
Perhaps we could arrange for Sami to be slapped every day?
Where is it?
Kin Shriner was very bad on TEXAS. So was newcomer Catherine Hickland and veteran Lee Patterson. Carla Borelli really stoled the show. I'm sure you can find some stuff on YT. TEXAS just threw a universe of characters at the viewer (the biggest I think a show ever debuted with) and right in the middle of all their stories. There was nothing to watch grow.
Gail Kobe took over from Paul Rauch and realized making Iris a heroine was a big mistake (the previous writers even changed Iris' character motivation from being perverted by a mammoth need for her daddy's approval to being embittered by being abandoned by her first love Alex Wheeler - it betrayed alot of AW's long-time viewers). It was a joy to see Iris back scheming but it was too late - she missed out on not having her daddy or Rachel to play against.
Bert Kramer was a horrible actor and his big love story with a maverick like McKinsey was sometimes excruciating to watch.
There was one leading man McKinsey HATED from her run as Iris. I've heard it was either Bert Kramer or Nicolas Coster (who played Iris' second husband Robert Delaney on AW). She was very close with Paul Stevens (the gay actor who played her third husband Brian Bancroft, which was the best pairing Iris ever had).
R121 By whom? Kristen? Jillian Michaels? Disaffected Days fans? Alison looks fabulous BUT it's become the Sami show just like the Reilly years were the Eileen Davidson show!
R122 Where is what?
Kin Shriner's character of Jeb on Texas didn't work. He should have been a strong romantic lead, but they weakened the character by giving him a heart condition.
They paired him with Catherine Hickland playing his doctor, Courtney Marshall, but the two never had much chemistry.
Neither character was well conceived. But that was the case with a lot of the original characters, many of whom were written off once Gail Kobe came in as executive producer about a year into the show's run.
The ten gallon hats didn't work on many of the actors; they looked silly wearing them. But Kin especially came off as uncomfortable wearing it.
By the time Texas really starting gelling in its final 12-15 months, they cut back a lot on the ten gallon hats.
Very gay producer John Conboy wanted his friend Beverly McKinsey to play the role of Myrna Clegg on his new soap Capitol. She turned him down.
Now, THAT would have been great to see. Could you imagine McKinsey and Constance Towers as rivals? And McKinsey playing opposite Richard Egan and Nicholas Walker? It's too bad she turned him down.
Bert Kramer was the weak link on Texas when it debuted. He showed a lot of potential early on as Alex Wheeler, but then just petered out. As a viewer, I kept wanting to like the character, kept thinking he'd flesh out the performance a bit more, but that never happened.
Have heard Kramer had a drinking problem and couldn't keep up with the rigors of daytime shooting schedules. Maybe that's why they shot the character and had him in a wheelchair barely able to talk for the last six months of his run on the show.
Have always thought that Peter Brown, who'd just finished his stint as Dr. Greg Peters on Days, would have been much better as Alex Wheeler -- right age, strong actor, handsome and had previously played a cowboy on Lawman and other westerns. Could have held his own against Beverlee McKinsey.
Wonder how the show might have fared with Brown as the lead actor. Would that have made a difference?
Of course, one of the actresses who played Myrna was...Marj Dusay.
Henry Slesar had wild parties. Doug Marland had wild parties. Who else did a lot of wild soap entertaining.
Is it true that Chris Bernau and Joel Crothers used to fuck on the Dark Shadows set?
Does anyone have any dirt on Lisa Peluso? She's only 47 and dropped out of soaps and acting it seems.....
r129, Crothers was long gone from DS by the time Bernau joined.
Monticello was in the midwest right near Springfield and Oakdale. As a matter of fact, Draper and April moved in to a house in Oakdale for awhile (it's where Molly Sherwood fell down the stairs and broke her neck after seeing what, she thought, was the Ghost of Raven).
By the way, avoid the Unicorn. It's a disco whose big feature is a puppet show.
My first boyfriend (who was 10 years older than me) took me to New York in the summer of 1980 and we stayed in an apartment of a friend of his who was a Swedish doctor. The doctor came home the last day we were there and that night brought home his then boyfriend who turned out to be...Joel Crothers!! Nice guy, amazingly handsome in person.
r123 Texas was the first show ever to debut at 60 minutes. Thus the larger cast was required.
Don't forget that the Texas characters all debuted on Another World. The action was evenly divided between Houston and Bay City for six weeks until Texas officially debuted as its own show on August 4, 1980.
Thus when the show officially premiered, most of the plotlines were already underway. So, it's no wonder it felt like the characters were already in the middle of their stories. They were.
Premiering it as an hour-long show was one of the many mistakes they made. Should have started at 30 minutes.
The other major mistake they made was giving Texas the 3 p.m. timeslot and moving Another World back to the 2 p.m. timeslot.
Thus, they pitted this brand new show against Guiding Light and General Hospital, which was surging because of Luke and Laura at that point.
They should have sandwiched Texas between Days at 1 p.m. and AW at 3 p.m.
Another thing that hurt the Texas debut was that America boycotted the Olympics in 1980 in protest of Russia invading Afghanistan. The Texas premier date of Aug. 4 was selected because ABC soaps would have been off for two weeks for Olympics coverage. NBC was hoping ABC soap viewers might sample Texas while their shows were off. But with the boycott, ABC soaps kept airing, Luke and Laura went on the run and Texas got off to a weak start.
Lisa Peluso sells real estate in New Jersey now. I guess the acting roles dried up and she turned to something more practical to pay the bills.
Bump for a fascinating thread. I'm interested in the P&G soaps.
Funny I thought this thread had been deleted months ago.
Wow. The thread comes back from the dead. Just like happens on soaps!
Wish come of the P&G soaps would come back from the dead . . .
Was Martha Byrne better at playing Rose or Lilly? She played a pretty good paesan. Especially with Tony Musante as her foil.
I liked her better as Rose, R139. I started watching ATWT the day the cabin burned down, so Heather Rattray was always Lily to me. Plus, I could tell Martha, a Jersey girl, liked playing a Jersey girl.
Who names their child "Raven"?
Cheswick Hall is the most elegant hotel I've stayed in. very very nice.
Lucinda was a MILF to me, a sort of Mrs Robinson.There was something hot about her. She was queeny in a bitchy,drag queen type of way.Eileen Davidson as Kristen on Days beats her as Queen Tranny though.
r141 "Raven" was the nickname she gave herself. Her birth name is Charlotte.
Will never forget Raven resting her head on Geraldine's lap, deeply lamenting the loss of "Skye's" millions when learning that she'd married not Skye, but imposter Jefferson Brown.
Geraldine: What are you feeling, Raven?
Raven: It's not the jewels I'll miss...or the furs...or the mansion, or the trips...
Geraldine: Then, what, Raven? What will you miss?
Raven: The money.
paraphrazing save the punchline
I meant "Sky."
r145 I remember that scene. Raven and Sky were my favorite Edge couple, followed closely by Adam and Nicole.
Raven always struck me as Erica Kane Jr in some way.Larkin Malloy was at his best here. Kyle at GL wasn't the same and neither was Travis over at AMC. He hit his strid on Edge.
One more thing is Larkin Malloy gay?
Larkin Malloy was sexy when he first came to Edge. When he was on GL he kinda lost it. His Kyle was so dour and uninteresting and he would flair those nostrils like no one's business.
Raven was definitely a Poor Man's Erica Kane.
Sky Whitney was just the perfect role for Larkin. Try as I might, I never really liked him as Kyle Sampson on GL, nor as Travis on AMC.
It just goes to show how much the right actor in the right role creates magic. Sky had a devilish quality about him, that Kyle and Travis lacked. Meanwhile, Kyle and Travis were self righteous, something that Sky never had.
Is Larkin gay? He's 59 years old and has never been married. The only female he's ever been connected to romantically is Marcia Cross (ahem) back in the mid 1980s. Do the math.
Does anyone remember Maxine played by French hottie Sonia Petrovna? God she was like Catherine Deneuve except more exaggerated in her acting style. She was one of my first straight girl crushes, God she was so alluring.Remember the tension between her and Gavin? Gavin was so cute and adorable but was not only tempted by Maxine but by Lori Loughlin(who later would be on Full House).The sexual tension there was palpable.She even had a certain amount of chemistry with Sky.
Update on Sharon Gabet. She's a full time nurse at a maternity ward now.she also had an autistic daughter as well.
R154 We were both wrong it's Martine Duval with one l!
Remember when Larkin had his meltdown on some terrace in Europe?
He was either drunk or having a mental breakdown. He was taking off his clothes and shouting.
Just another fan who can't imagine why anyone would call Marland's ATWT "cold and sterile." The family relationships and friendships were so believable. Lucinda and John reading the morning newspapers over coffee; teenaged Andy and Paul having long discussions about their parents and girlfriends; Kim and Bob making a loving place for ex-wife Lisa in their new family; Tom and Hal working hard to maintain a respectful friendship after all the Margo drama; Craig (played by the only guy who ever should have played him) juggling two or three women at a time and *still* not looking like an asshole... It was soap perfection. Human beings I could relate to and love.
As for Martha in the dual role of Lily/Rose, I thought she was brilliant, and the direction was very, very good. My favorite moment was Holden waking up in bed with Rose (who he thought was Lily) and implying they'd had anal sex. "You've never wanted to do that before." "Hey, a girl can change her mind, can't she?" And don't tell me it wasn't anal, because even Lily must have given blow jobs.
r157, you left out the plausible Castle McKechnie storylines. Could you relate to those as well?
Interesting that many think Raven is a poor man's Erica Kane. There were similarities, but Raven was much more edgier (pun intended) than vanillaish Erica. And Erica ended up getting two of Raven's cast-offs - Lee Godart, who essentially played Eliot Dorn again as a recast Kent Bogard, and Larkin malloy.
But if I had to watch either vixen in action, it would have to have been Raven. She took such delight in wantonly causing trouble.
Slesar's writing always ensured she never plunged into parody, though - if anyone remembers those scenes Raven had with her frigid mother Nadine, then you got a glimpse into a very damaged arrested developed young woman. Nadine resented her daughter's closeness with Raven's father, whose death left two females who generally were suspicious and resentful of one another. The last scene Nadine and Raven shared before Nadine's murder was beautifully written. It can be seen on YT somewhere.
There was also a wonderful introspective scene that Slesar wrote for Sharon Gabet before she took a long maternity leave; Raven left her son Jamey in the custody of April and Draper, and before leaving, went into this strange tale of how she ended up naming herself Raven, how she saw a black bird on the lawn and wished she could be as free and beautiful as that bird. abet was fascinating to watch.
The P and G soaps in comparison to the Bell soaps were warmer in tone. Though camp creeped in. Allen Fawcett's Kelly McGrath was so bad he was good! I don't think he was a very good soap actor, he made his bread and butter on stage . Was he gay too? He pinged a bit....
R157 As I had said earlier Lucinda was one of the greatest drag queens in soap history. Probably bested by Eileen Davidson as Kristen on Days.I always liked her relationship with Lily as well. Even though they looked nothing alike you felt that they had some sort of connection.
R158 Duncan McKechnie was screwing Robin Quivers! That was before he went broke.He was supposedly a spendthrift that couldn't save a dime.
I will argue that Hogan Sheffer's ATWT was better than Doug Marland's. It was edgy and sexy and very masculine. It was also more focused. Marland didn't write a tight show. Marland wrote two shows well, GL and GH. After that he just floated on good will. When he moved half the action to that damned farm, I knew he was back on the gin.
Here's Allen Fawcett (Kelly McGrath) today. He's aged a lot, but is still a good looking man. It feels like just yesterday I saw this fresh-faced actor join Edge, but it was almost 35 years ago. Fuck, where has the time gone? Not to get maudlin, but he joined Edge just pre-AIDS. Several of his costars would die of the disease.
GL was Marland's best work IMO. I watched an episode recently, and it held up very well. As someone mentioned upthread or somewhere else about Marland's ATWT, whole episode seemed like endless recap and exposition. I think Marland, Lemay and Nixon were the best. Bill Bell is so overrated.
Nadine puts an end to Raven's scheme to grab her fortune:
R162 Who besides Joel Crothers died of Aids on EON?
Yeah, Allen lost his fro!
R163 Bell did decent work on Days and Old and The Rested(Y & R initially but it became a bore) BUT his shows have been so cold especially The Bland and The Boring.
Nadine and Raven's last scene together before Nadine is killed in a car accident - Sharon Gabet is wonderful.
R161 Hogan Sheffer's initial time at ATWT was great; the show was coming off a really bad time and was plain awful when he took over. But then he got way too campy and started doing some really dumb storylines. The worst the show was was the last two years it was on with Jean Passante as HW and Goutman as EP. It lost its whole identity and ended on a big whimper. JP committed the mortal sin of soaps and had Janet Ciconne, or whatever her name was, swallow the whole show to the point that her father had a four day funeral while Nancy Hughes got bupkis. Goutman tried to cover it up by saying it was Helen Wagner's wishes but he is full of shit.
Marland was already dead when Rose appeared on the scene. If he was the sexual act which Holden was referring to would have been the licking of his feets.
Was Sheffer the first writer on ATWT after that hideous Black/Stern writing team which brought in pinhead Sarah Kasnoff and her flakey model friend Zoe? That was when the show became unrecognizable.
R162/R165, I'd be surprised if Joey Phipps, the original Kelly, hasn't died from AIDS. He was fired after 3 weeks after he was caught having sex in his dressing room with Dennis Parker, who did die of AIDS.
r165, the other most famous AIDS case from EON was former porn actor Dennis Parker (Police Chief Derek Mallory), who committed suicide after getting his diagnosis.
Irving Lee, who played Calvin Stoner, also passed away from AIDS.
Amanda Blake (of "Gunsmoke" fame) had a role on EON shortly before dying of AIDS as well.
There have been internet rumours for years that Christopher Jarrett (Damian Tyler) also died of AIDS, but that is not true. Jarrett is alive and well and living in Paris. He is an artist. Sharon Gabet, who is a very good friend of his, talked about keeping in touch with him in a WOST interview a couple of years ago.
[quote]I will argue that Hogan Sheffer's ATWT was better than Doug Marland's.
When you say sex do you mean "sex-sex"(anal)? You mean a blow job? I don't know how these soap types like Missy reeves can't wait to blow their sex partners at a hotel?
Marland loved feet.Was he gay or was this just a foot fetish thing with him? I mean who wouldn't suck and lick Holden's dick instead?
Why would Joey Phipps get fired for fucking Dennis Parker in his dressing room? That kind of stuff happened all the time.
I don't get your oh dear r170. Where is the spelling mistake?
"...you left out the plausible Castle McKechnie storylines. Could you relate to those as well?"
Nope. I hated Duncan. He ruined Shannon, who was so fabulous up to that point. God, I loved it when she and Barbara would go at it over Brian.
R172, it may have happened all the time but if the executive producer catches you in the act then it's grounds for temination. Same thing with drugs. A lot of actors were doing coke in their dressing rooms in the 80s but AMC executive producer Jackie Babbin caught Lee Godart (Kent Bogard) doing blow in his dressing room so he was immediately fired.
a few Joey Phipps are on FB; one could be him.
I disagree about Marland and ATWT: he had wonderful stories there including the Doug Cummings story, Margo vs. Babs, James' return, Casey and Lyla's love story, Lucinda, John, Craig, Sierra....also reviving the Susan/Kim feud was wonderful.
Sure, he brought in the Snyders (wasn't it great when Lucinda would snarl that name to Ambrose? Or trade quips with Craig about them? Craig: Seth's moonlighting at the Mona Lisa. He's trying to keep the farm afloat.
Lucinda: Oh? So it's a floating farm now?) When was the last time a head writer brought on a new family yet still honored existing ones.
I did love his GL and his GH, too.
He never gets enough credit for saving GH.
"...wasn't it great when Lucinda would snarl that name to Ambrose?"
Oh, how I loved the Lucinda/Ambrose relationship. Ambrose got such a kick out of her. I can't remember the actor's name at the moment, but he was in "All That Jazz," too.
r159 Sharon Gabet also had better chemistry with Lee Goddard and Larkin Malloy than Susan Lucci did.
r156 If I recall correctly, Larkin was in Italy, fans were gathered outside his hotel. He went out on the balcony and started undressing. Was that a meltdown? Was he just drinking too much? What was that about?
Shortly after that, he left AMC. He did a short run as Clay Alden on Loving in 1992, but then was seldom heard from again.
He also did a 4-week stint as a mad scientist aging Carly, Emily and Rose in a Switzerland clinic on ATWT in 2001.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I just can't see how anyone could not have seen how Marland "saved" ATWT. Only Marland could write intergenerational stories and juggle a community of characters successfully. Grandparents, parents and children were featured prominently and structured beautifully. Marland was able to keep the soap opera tradition intact while adapting to the new era of the genre. No one has come close to doing what he did.
r171, Marland was just one of those guys who found feet more appealling than a dick. Can't explain the myriad desires of fetishism to someone who doesn't have one. As a major foot fetishist myself, I would rather have a guy with great feet that appeal to my sense of the aesthetic than a big dick anyday. A dick is just a dick in my book, but feet are unique and the object of prime desire for me when it comes to enjoying the sexual act.
He became an acting coach on soap operas! From leading man on a soap(Edge Of Night where he was part of a supercouple) to another on GL(where he was paired with mixed results with Ms Zimmer) and then on AMC(where he was paired with queen diva herself,La Lucci, you'd think Malloy would have had a better career.
R172 The entire statement is so wrong, every single letter in it needs to be replaced.
Do you cum from your feet or your cock?;) I get fetishes BUT the orgasm comes from stimulating the dick.Then again Doug must have been jerking off when he gave Holden a footjob no?That would have been fabulously kinky.
I adored Marland's ATWT. He admitted towards the end of his run he had started to drift and cast changes had hit him hard, but ATWT road on his new long-term for two or three years after his death.
There were at least two head writer regimes between Black & Stern and the Goutman/Sheffer era under Felicia Minei Behr. Jessica Klein from 90210 (and her writing partner) gave us that Melrose Place-lite era when Chris, Andy, Molly, Abigail, et al all lived in an apartment complex together. They replaced Jerry/Jeremy with essentially the same character in Eddie, broke up Tom and Margo with the Emily affair (made Tom a newspaperman), and brought in Denise. They replaced beloved Allyson Rice-Taylor and ruined David Stenbeck under the second writer, IIRC. Was it Lorraine Broderick? The end of this period was the church fire.
Addie Walsh guided the show until Hogan Sheffer took over. Personally, I think Sheffer was over-rated. He stole the plot for his first big story from a film script he had previously seen in his old job. In fact, much of what people think as Sheffer's was really Goutman dictating plot. Once Sheffer was gone, story was almost entirely Goutman.
Don't you mean Montecito, OP?
Not that you could afford it...
Everything he learned about storytelling he learn from Lemay. He just didn't have Lemay's panache. That said, his GH and GL were flawless. ATWT, on the other hand, sucked rocks. It was either the farm or corporate stories. The Hughes were an afterthought. The Stewarts got screwed.
According to IMDB, Joey Phipps is still alive. They have his last name as Philpps. Don't know if that's a typo. His only TV credit was Edge.
r186, I'm not a huge fan of Marland's ATWT either, but in his defense, it was the big 80s, and everyone was doing big business stories. All of a sudden, every soap hamlet had one or two multi-million dollar corporations, and ATWT was no exception. My issue with the show was that it was just so cold and remote, to echo other posters. The characters just seemed to lack personality. I don't know if it was his writing or the production, but something was off. His GL was terrific...adult, mature, intelligent, but with the warmth his ATWT lacked. I was too young to appreciate GL during that era, but I've gone back and watched a bunch on youtube, and they really are quite good.
For my money, Harding Lemay and Agnes Nixon are the best. Harding's AW transcended typical soap melodrama. Agnes, with her warmth, trademark Dickensian characters, comedy, and intelligent approach to social issues, all set against a traditional soap background, is just amazing.
"The characters just seemed to lack personality."
Lucinda Walsh, Lily Walsh, John Dixon, Margo Hughes, Andy Dixon, Barbara Ryan, James Stenbeck, Craig Montgomery, Sierra Esteban, Tonio Reyes, Shannon O'Hara, Julie Wendall, Duke Kramer, and Lisa Mitchell "lacked personality"? Um, okay...
R182, I love your post.
yes, those characters, r189.
Both Brian Bloom (Dusty ATWT) and Kathleen Turner (Nola The Doctors) are the only two people to blast Marland's writing.
Bloom said Marland gave his character nothing to do but empty bedpans, and he was getting the most fan mail on the show.
On The Doctors Marland created the part of Nola, and Kathleen Turner said the writing was so awful, she had to channel Nola as a secret alcoholic to justify her actions.
In the case of Lucinda and John, the acting rose above the writing. Now let's have some fun. What 80s soap stud would you have given your hole to first?
r192, William Fichtner also blasted the writing.
r193,my all time favorite soap stud is Robert Tyler, Trucker from that godawful show Loving. The actor was built for sex. Other faves, in no particular order, David Sederholm (RH), Grant Show (RH), Trent Bushey (AMC), Steve Bond (GH), Don Diamont (Y&R), Jon Hensley (ATWT), Grant Aleksander (GL), Jon Wesley Shipp (GL, ATWT), Doug Wert (OLTL) to name a few.
[quote] William Fichtner also blasted the writing.
R194 Robert Tyler's actual name is Barry Kaufmann. He was a model before Loving, and yes, was truly one of the most beautiful men on daytime. He's on the right in the pic below. You may be able to find more.
R193 Daniel Markel as Sam Fowler (AW)
R189 You were obviously watching the same show I was watching. I loved the characters in Marland's ATWT. I wasn't watching soaps before 1988, so I never saw any of his other shows. Oh, the day I found out he died, I was so sad.
The show never really recovered except for that brief period during which Lisa sued John for Eduardo's death, and Andy had to testify against his father. The Cullitons were writing then IIRC. All the other so-called writers SUCKED.
Though I found the Marland technique of "gossip as recap" a bit forced from 1988-93, I missed it ever after. No one ever got those omnibus scenes right ever again.
Cold? Oy oy oy.
Yeah, he was friends with some blond haired guy played by Neil Maffin, R197. That was one of the first eps I ever saw of World Turns. He was one of the reasons I "tune(d) in tomorrow."
I wonder if his career would have gone better if he'd kept his real name.
Daniel Markel, now here is a guy who studied at Julliard and wanted to be the next Kevin Kline (which is what he told SOD)
But besides stage work (which pays nothing) the only jobs he could get was on soaps.
He gave up acting, to go into Real Estate in LA.
btw Ann Flood was top billed on EON
on ATWT Don Hastings was top billed
Dr. Bob Hughes
He was so good, R201, and so, so, so, so pretty. And I thought he would be such a success as an actor.
DL fave Elizabeth Mitchell was Robert Tyler's leading lady on Loving.
He was a decent actor and painfully good looking.
R205 Wesley Addy was top billed on Loving when Pat Kalember was on the show.
Anyone remember the Loving pilot that aired in prime time on a Sunday before it premiered the next day? Geraldine Page and Lloyd Bridges guest starred. I was such a little teen soap queen, and I remember being so excited about the show. Crap, I'm such a loser I even remember the commercials that played with Susan Walters, Chris Marcantel, Perry Stephens and Lauren Marie Taylor before the show began. I feel so ancient.
Brian Cranston (Breaking Bad) was on the show as well.
Ironically his TV brother James Kiberd was the one SOD was touting as the big star to make it in Primetime.
I subscribe to John Wesley Shipp Facebook feed. about an hour ago he just posted the following message.
"The practical case for recognizing gays is simple, yet compelling: gay people exist and more importantly, are already raising children in families. All of the conservatives’ arguments rely on claims about 'responsible procreation' and what’s best for children, but not one of them takes into account the millions of children already growing up with same-sex parents. Besides the fact social science research supports same-sex parenting, it’s quite easy to see how those families would benefit from the securities and protections of marriage equality. The Court could simply accept opponents’ arguments about the values and purposes of marriage, but rather than apply them in conservatives’ imaginary gay-free universe, acknowledge that they should apply equally and fairly to gay couples as well."
Robert Tyler's feets were no doubt enjoyed by Douglas Marland.
Edge (along with AMC, GH and RH) was my favorite soap. The last year or so without Slesar, and with those dreadful new opening credits, was really subpar. ABC/P&G, in a last ditch attempt to save the show, tried making it more compatible with action adventure oriented GH, which preceded it in major markets. ABC kept running ads with Sharon Gabet, Larkin Malloy, Charles Flohe, and Karrie Emerson (Jody Travis #2) who announced that it was "a whole new day for the Edge of Night."
What ABC should have done with 'Edge' was run it twice at day. AT 4PM and at 12:35 AM after Nightline.
The late night airing actually pulled in good numbers for affiliates who aired it at that time.
Nobody did cold, remote, dyky matriarch better than Lois Kibbee.
Loving's Perry Stephens passed away a few years ago. All I know was he was working for a church and suffered some kind of organ failure. Quite sad. RIP
Perry Stephens dated Kathie Lee Gifford and SFT Lisa Peluso
I cannot find it now, but I used to visit an Edge of Night website that was a trove of information about the shows history, characters, and actors.
It had a great page that listed each season's murder... victim, how they were killed, who was prosecuted, and who was the actual murderer.
I googled for the site, but it didn't come up in the search result.
It was a fan site, so perhaps they just gave up on maintenance and it went away?
I'm bummed. Perhaps Edge is the show that should be made into a web series. It was only 30 minutes long.
r214 It was P&G that cancelled Edge, not ABC.
From everything I've read, ABC was still happy with the show. In the markets that aired it at 4 p.m., Edge still did well in the ratings. As I recall, it was #2 show at 4 p.m. in NYC.
It also did well in the late night time slots.
It was the morning time slots where it got killed in the ratings. It wasn't a morning show.
P&G was worried about the national ratings being so low and pulled the plug.
Shows today could learn a thing or two from Edge about how to operate on a low budget.
R222 Trust me Days and Y & R are being run on a budget these days(pun intended). Sony who owns both soaps is looking at the bottom line like you wouldn't believe. Days shoots on a 3 week on one week off schedule, Y and R on a 4 day schedule though that might go the way of Days.
Could they learn a thing or two? How the heck did Gloria Monty convince ABC to spend all that money in 81 with the Ice Princess story line? Those sets looked lavish. I remember that Sky and Raven were in some exotic locale and it looked like it was the worst green scene you've ever seen!Saturday morning cartoons had better effects.In essence, GH got a fabulous villain like Mikos,Tony or Victor Cassadine and EON fans got the Clown Puppet!
That whole clown puppet thing with the Eliot Dorn was the zenith of unintentional camp.Gavin being obsessed with Martine's music, Sky being besotted by Martine, Eliot Dorn's hammy acting, Allen Fawcett being weird as ,Joel Crothers looking ever so much like Tom Selleck and Raven being well you know Raven.Edge seemed so retro to me after watching GH which Monty had moved into the Luke and Laura era.
r212, Robert Tyler was indeed one of Marland's "foot boys". In fact, the very first scene Tyler had on ATWT had him lounging in a swimsuit by a pool in which his feet were prominently showcased.
Other actors who let Marland play with their feet included John Wesley Shipp (who shared a long-term arrangement with Marland), Jim Wclek, Jon Hensley, Richard Burgi, and the guy who played Evan Walsh (can't remember his name).
No one crafted a story like Henry Slesar. He was a genius. His stories read like novels, having a beginning and end but continuing into another smartly, carefully crafted story. The Denise Cavanaugh story became the Winter Austin story became the Margo Huntington story became the Nola Madison story became the Elliot Dorn story became the Sky Whitney story. After Slesar was fird, the show never recovered.
I don't think Marland actually jerked off while licking the boys feets. I think he did that later on when he was alone. At least I hope so.
Agreed, r25. No one has ever come close to Slesar in crafting story.
It was EDGE's unique format that enabled Slesar to write so brilliantly. He later had unsuccessful runs as HW for OLTL, SFT and Capitol (his simultaneous run as Somerset's HW while writing EON was hurt by his loyalty to EON's stories, not to mention he was rewriting the original format of the soap to fit EON's format).
Slesar and EDGE just melded together. It's tone and style mirrored his own, and he only enhanced it for the lengthy decades run he had as its HW. It wasn't like the other soaps - it relied on a disciplined novelization style of storytelling that very rarely veered off its course (one rare exception: when the network forced Slesar to drop a Jonestown-cult-type story with Eliot Dorn as its psychotic leader that was beginning to air just at the time of the real-life Jonestown massacre. Slesar just turned cult leader Eliot into a gigolo).
EDGE was a condensed compact show full of a handful of tentpole characters who stabilized the endless coming and goings of troublemakers and villains (Raven became unique in ending up becoming one of those tentpoles - Slesar's fascinating gallery of Daddy Girls-gone-bad always ended up paying for their trangressions).
R212 That's the first place I saw Robert Tyler, in a poolside scene at either the Walsh mansion or the OYC. I thought, "Damn, he looks JUST like (model) Barry Kaufmann."
Greg Watkins played Evan Walsh.
Terrible breaking news to report-Jake Silbermann is in a Broadway play called Assembled Parties and he doesn't take off his shirt.
Hey guys, I posted at R221.
I finally found that url for the Edge of Night site and damn, it's no longer valid, cannot be found.
I wonder what happened to all of the information posted, it provided a trove of information.
Old url is provided below.
R232, thanks for the link. That site is close to what I remember. Perhaps someone took the site I referred to and tweeked it.
What's missing are the images of the actors and the murder/trial page doesn't include the weapon used or manner of death.
Edge was impressive for its longevity and focus.
I wonder how it could be revived? Maybe as a flashback program with a new character finding Mike Karr's journals where he kept notes on the doings of Monticello?
[quote] I wonder how it could be revived?
Just reuse Henry Sleser's scripts
April 2 marks the 57th anniversary of the debut of Edge of Night. And As the World Turns too!
I beg your pardon but I am the Robert Tyler troll. Kindly of my coattails. TIA
Meanwhile, in Monticello, April 1956 was incredibly exciting! Plot Synopsis - marijuana? Well I never! Think of the children!
Police lieutenant Mike Karr and his girlfriend Sara Lane planned a happy future together. Sara and mother Mattie worried about Sara's brother Jack, who has fallen into a bad crowd. Thug Walt Johnson reminded Jack that Jack still owes him, and suggested that Jack can repay his debt by purchasing marijuana for Walt. Later, Jack became embroiled in uncle Harry Lane's shady deals. Harry, who owns a trucking company, battled with his dipsomanical wife Cora, and daydreamed about Louise Grimsley, the daughter of financier Winston Grimsley. Winston's secretary Grace O'Keefe admitted to friend Sara Lane that she's in love with Mike's partner Sgt. Charley Brooks. Martin Spode, general manager for Lane Trucking, realized that Harry is receiving stolen merchandise.