Parents Give Newly Out Of The Closet Son, "The Joys of Gay Sex" With Letter
Parenting, You're doing it right.
Nicholas posted this pic on Instagram with the tagline, "I came out to my parents in August. This was on my pillow last night. I love you, Mom and Dad."
We recognize that this is an unusual book for parents to give to their children. But we would prefer that you not learn about sex solely from gay porn, and neither of us feels well-qualified to give you personal advice for obvious reasons. 'So hopefully this will answer a few questions, and help explain some things. 'Much love, 'Mom'
The boy's father added at the bottom of the letter:
'We want you to know that we support you in all ways, and love you very much, even if this seems like an odd gift. 'Love, Dad.'
Parents' support is one thing--and that's fine. However, giving that book as a gift to your son is a bit creepy, stepping over the line and an invasion of privacy.
I think it's fantastic. Both parents admit that it's odd, probably incredibly uncomfortable too, but sex needs to be addressed and since neither parent is gay, this book is a nice proxy. Or at least a nice attempt.
So the mom is giving him free rein to be a whore?
Beyond the basics (how to play safe, avoid making unwanted babies, and protect yourself and your partners from STDs), kids really don't need to be hearing sex advice from their parents. I'd find it weird if these parents gave their straight child a copy of the Joy of (Hetero) Sex, or imparted the equivalent information from personal experience, and I find it equally weird that they gave their gay kid a copy of the Joy of Gay Sex. Sorry, Mom and Dad, whether gay or straight, no kid wants your advice on how to more fully enjoy his sex life. Eww.
That said, it's the thought that counts, I suppose, and it's very nice that these parents are so supportive of their gay son, and are trying so hard to be good parents to him. But really, folks, stop and think: Would you do something like this for your straight kid? If the answer is no, you're probably overcompensating ...
[quote]But really, folks, stop and think: Would you do something like this for your straight kid?
No, they would tell them to wait for marriage.
R4. Good point. And you're right. It would seem beyond weird if parents gave a hetero sex book to their straight kid. Don't do it to your gay kid either. It's weird and creepy icky.
Some uptight fusspots in this thread.
It might be creepy if they wanted to go over it with him, but just leaving a book for him is fairly discreet. Ditto if the son were straight. It's a good thing the parents don't want their kids to learn about sex strictly from porn, especially these days when it is so readily available and kids are exposed so young.
That said, this story is probably fake.
Back in my day we had to work up the courage to enter the gay bookstore and face the cashier as we bought this for a "friend"
What about trying to encourage him and his partner to wait until they are married?
IMHO the parents avoided much of the creep factor by leaving it for him to find, and avoiding a big embarassing scene.
And yes, any sensible parents would tell their kids not to learn about sex from porn, so that part holds true.
FAKE! Didn't Catherine Tate do this on her show?
Every time Nicolas takes schlong up his pooper he'll be thinking about his parents... ewww
How thoughtful. Isn't that thoughtful, Richard?
Very creepy. Overly intrusive.
And yes, probably fake.
Agree completely with R7.
Yes, there's a level of precise interest your kid's sex life and its mechanics that's creepy, but providing a source for some information that isn't peer-based or porn-based, that has some aspect of authority isn't creepy at all.
There's probably any number of pamphlets they could have provided as an alternative.
Assuming it's true, who cares?
My life would be very different if I'd had parents like that... much time and grief saved, much more happiness probably found. If it's true, good for them for trying to raise an informed kid free to be himself and encouraged to understand how to take care of himself. I say good for them.
I feel bad for people like R3. What happened to them to associate sex with being something that is shameful and dirty?
I wonder if they flipped through it page by page before they put it in the gift bag?
Gosh, I loved that book!
Props to them for realizing porn isn't a great thing to mimic.
If the tale's true, good for the parents. I hope they gave him a box of rubbers, too!
Back in the day, I remember going to the book department in the basement of Gimbels to read it!
I don't get the squeamishness and hand-wringing. Some of you sound, frankly, a bit backwards. These are good liberal parents who are looking out for their son, and tailoring his sex education to his sexuality. They're probably worried about STIs and HIV and want him to make informed decisions about his sexuality. It's not like they got him a rentboy. I found the note touching in its concern and earnest awkwardness, not creepy at all.
I'd rather see parents giving their gay sons educational sex manuals than ignoring their sexuality or, worse, rejecting it (and them).
[quote]Some of you sound, frankly, a bit backwards
Welcome to The New Datalounge. We're overrun by puritans who thinks sex is bad and anyone who does it is a whore.
I think it was sweet of the parents to give him the book. He'll probably figure out the sex thing on his own (practice makes perfect). But it shows that they have a healthy and loving relationship. They love and accept him. If only ALL parents behaved this way towards their gay kids. Therapists and pharmaceutical companies would go out of business.
Parents DO give their straight kids books though. Maybe not "how to" manuals or "The Joy of..." type books, but many (most?) kids get some kind of book or pamphlet slipped under their door, or put in their room when they're teenagers. I still remember mine. It was kind of sweet. I can still picture the girl on the cover and it said something like, "So, You're Becoming a Woman." LOL. Another big one back in the day was, "Our Bodies, Ourselves."
I think it's great. Some of you are the weird ones.
Well, better these try-hards than the opposite. I get sick thinking about all the kids raised in strict fundie homes who are shamed and thrown out on the street for being gay.
[quote]But really, folks, stop and think: Would you do something like this for your straight kid?
[quote]No, they would tell them to wait for marriage.
Sweet Jesus. What happened to this place? I feel like I'm at a bible meeting.
First off, parents DO actually do this for straight kids. You've never heard of parents having the "sex talk"? Many choose to address it by leaving reading material for their kids because they can explore and research it at their own pace. Many liberal, educated parents even use rather frank and explicit material. This is nothing new or shocking, unless you've been in a coma since before the sexual revolution, in which case you're probably at least 70 and understandably confused. But, yes, NEWSFLASH: many parents facilitate a frank education in sexual matters when their children become sexually mature and aware.
And "tell them to wait until marriage"? Really? Why not just lock them in a dungeon, stick your fingers in your ears and sing LALALALALA until an upstanding young suitor shows up to collect the dowry. It's 2013. Put your bible down and wake the fuck up.
Unless you want your child to grow up a social oddity, a "rebel" who acts out recklessly (and shames you worse than you can imagine) or trapped in an early, ill-planned marriage, get your head out of the sand. There is nothing wrong or "creepy" about taking a realistic approach to the sexuality of a child on the verge of adulthood.
Dad, next time take a more "hands-on" approach and give him a demonstration. (Would have saved you some money, too.)
Simmer down, hens. Purchasing a book for their son and hoping that the book will give their son advice, is not at all the same thing as creepily delivering that advice in the first-person.
I applaud these parents. 100%. They are no dummies: many gay teens go through a phase of OD'ing on Internet porn, and that is probably a lot less healthy than receiving a copy of Joy Of Gay Sex as an info resource. I say this as a sometimes porn enthusiast. It is too much too fast, for a 16 year old to be watching tons and tons of porn online, yet many of them do. The unhealthy messaging is all the more true today given that we are seeing a tipping point where most of the "hottest" studios (SeanCody, CorbinFisher, BelAmi, etc) all went bareback over the past year or two.
These parents seem to know that their son is already seeking out and receiving a lot of media about gay sex. Good for them, for introducing a professional and extremely helpful resource into the mix.
It's probably fake (the parents' handwriting looked awfully similar), but if not, this is just the modern version of the "birds and bees" talk that fathers have with sons, except the son is gay.
The point that should be taken from this is that the parents don't want their kid to learn from porn. I wish more parents/fathers of straight young men took the initiative because I think there is a generation of young men taking cues about sex from porn. Not erotica, but porn that's become more and more degrading to sex partners.
Except for the self destructive idiocy that is barebacking, and a general lack of kissing, what's so bad about learning about sex from porn?
Good for them. People who are creeped out by it are mentally ill children with arrested development. Sad to see Datalounge has so many. It's not true that het parents would never do this. They would never do this for a GIRL but boys they certainly do encourage.
If only my parents had reacted with 1/100th of Nicolas' parents' positivity.
[quote]Except for the self destructive idiocy that is barebacking, and a general lack of kissing, what's so bad about learning about sex from porn?
But, understand: in too much gay porn today, bareback fucking is the centrality, the whole point of it all. Take a horny 16 year old who has viewed hundreds of bareback porn clips (which this kid probably has, if his parents have the impression he's watching a lot of gay porn) and then ask him to always use a condom when having anal sex - sex he'll be having among peers where many others don't want to use, or don't care about using, said condom. Good luck with that.
I'd be anxious about this issue if I were a parent raising a gay teen.
Porn is not educational material. It's jerk-off fodder.
Personally, I think it's given a lot of men a really warped idea about sex and what makes a man attractive and sexy. I use it to jerk off too, but I find it all rather soulless. I wouldn't want an impressionable youth to be learning anything from it.
When was the last time you saw two people "making love" in porn? I think giving him the book is a great idea. I grew up with a liberal father who helped me make my way through the gay scene when I came out. He went into NYC with my stepmom, found the gay area, and had dinner there. Afterwards, I remember him saying, "You know, they're not all like the stereotype." Ding ding ding! I remember sending him a personal ad I read in a gay mag written by a guy who was into S&M which I didn't understand back then and a note "Dad, I don't think I wanna be gay anymore." Dad wrote back and assured me that straight people were into exactly the same kind of kink that gays were.
I think there are a lot of cool parents like mine out there. But I know I'm one of the lucky ones.
[quote]what's so bad about learning about sex from porn?
-unrealistic body representation. This is problem #1 and so glaringly obvious I question your intelligence and maturity. A teenager who is still maturing will not have a very good body (or self) image if the only sexuality he sees is practiced by body builders with 11 inch penises. See "teenaged girls and fashion models" for a similar problem.
-premature exposure to fetishes, role-playing and fantasy without a clear understanding of the dynamics involved.
-glorifying rape. No, I'm not Andrea Dworkin (I actually love porn), but some scenes viewed without the knowledge and understanding referenced in my previous point could have the wrong impression on a young, vulnerable kid. Some porn sex looks scary to ME, imagine what it looks like to someone who hasn't watched thousands of hours of it and experienced sex as an adult.
-finally, porn never addresses the reality of sex, just the fantasy. It shows nothing of the possible consequences, especially in ridiculous porn scenarios like servicing the boss, having sex in public or with strangers, or propositioning an authority figure. Porn shows little in the way of relationships and they're never presented realistically (and rarely positively). It also teaches nothing about being the object of unwanted advances and how to handle them, that saying no is always an option, or that sexual choices can complicate relationships after the fact.
Using porn to teach sex is like forgoing medical school in favor of old ER reruns.
What do you call parents of straight teenagers who DON'T discuss condoms, birth control and other sex-ed stuff?
[quote]Using porn to teach sex is like forgoing medical school in favor of old ER reruns.
[quote]What do you call parents of straight teenagers who DON'T discuss condoms, birth control and other sex-ed stuff?
I'd call the parents of gay OR straight teenagers who did not discuss that stuff irresponsible and ignorant. And, actually, I think discussions of "the bird and the bees" and the changes that are going to happen to your body need to begin before the teen years.
Most parental sex-ed talks, however, don't extend to "Joy of" type discussions of the various positions and techniques you might want to try to make your sex life more fulfilling. Ick. There's absolutely nothing wrong with reading about and doing the stuff in those books, and it certainly doesn't make you a whore, but it's not territory you need to delve into with your mom and dad. Parents can make the point that porn sex, gay or straight, is not realistic or to be emulated without providing illustrated manuals of alternative ideas for their kids to try.
I know this kid's parents meant well, and I don't think that giving him the Joy of Gay Sex was some horrible, unforgivable transgression or anything. It was just a slightly creepy and bizarre idea, and no, it was not the kind of thing most parents give a straight kid.
Very well said, R41.
My parent's were olde-worlde immigrants. Very religious. Sex was NEVER mentioned in our house, let alone homosexuality.
I learned about the mechanics of hetero sex from books in the library. I learned about what I was REALLY attracted to from the occasional porn magazine I came across that sometimes featured naked men. Playgirl was a godsend.
I learned about gay sex by just putting myself out there and seeing what happened. It started in public toilets and parks. I was innocently peeing at a urinal in a shopping mall one day when a man stood next to me and wouldn't stop staring at my dick. I was turned on and that became a source of sexual release.
Then I discovered park sex. I would drive around the local park and cruise the bushes looking for dick.
Then I got up enough courage to go to bars and bathhouses. That felt more normal and less creepy.
Then I met a wonderful man who taught me about making love. We're still together 16 years later.
So all that is to say I wish my parents had had a healthier and more open attitude towards sex. It could have saved me years of torment, shame, and risky behaviour.
I remember my mother, not my father who was mostly absent, giving me a book about sex to read when I was in my teens. This was in the early 70s. Wasn't the Joy of Sex.
I was told to read it and ask any questions I had. I had already heard about sex from my friends before this happened.
When I first tried to come out of the closet in high school (c1978), no one believed me. I was a nerdy jock virgin who had no clue about the homosex. But I knew that I was attracted to other boys. My teachers, parents, family, friends, and classmates told me that I should move to San Francisco. There was no gay instruction manual, so that's what I did.
R41, how old are you? Damn old I assume.
"It was just a slightly creepy and bizarre idea, and no, it was not the kind of thing most parents give a straight kid."
Are you that dense? Of course this is not common with straight kids! With straight kids, their parents sit them down and talk to them about their experiences. They get classes in school. Straight kids don't feel shamed or embarrassed asking about dating. When i was a kid, my father sat me down to have the talk, I had sex ed classes all throughout my childhood (none of them mentioned homosexuality), and if I had a question about sex, I'd ask an older kid. Gay teens don't have that, so drop the this is so creepy bs.
I can't help but think those being creeped out by this are eldergays who are uncomfortable with the idea that today's parents are more gay friendly than they were back when they were self-loathing teens. Plus, many eldergays tend to resent how much easier gay teens have it today. They all fought for us to be accepted and when that happens they feel bitter, that the kids today have it much easier and didn't have to go through the same struggles.
Don't be a dope, r46. Parents do not talk to their straight children about how the kids can get and give more pleasure from sex, nor does sex ed at school cover such information. Straight kids might feel comfortable asking a parent for *dating* advice, but the average straight boy surely isn't asking his father for tips on how to perform cunnilingus more effectively, or whether doggy style is more fun than the missionary position.
Basic sex ed (which, yes, all gay and straight kids should receive both at home and in school) is different from the material covered in books such as Joy of Sex.
For those of you who think the Joy of Gay Sex was inappropriate, is there another book they could give their kid?
I like how in your mind:
Parents talking to straight kid about sex= basic sex ed.
Parents talking to gay kid about sex= cunnilingus, doggy style, things that shouldn't be discussed.
We get it. You're bitter that this kid won't get all of his info from gay porn and therefore have a better chance at normal relationships.
We get it. You think a book called: The JOY of Gay Sex, will lead this teen down a corrupt and depressing lifestyle. He'll get into drugs, barebacking, and orgies. When asked what went wrong in hi life, he'll explain: My parents gave me a book with the words "joy" and "gay sex." If only they had given me a book with words "shame" and "gay sex," then I could've had a chance at a normal life.
R47 is completely correct.
[quote] I like how in your mind: Parents talking to straight kid about sex= basic sex ed. Parents talking to gay kid about sex= cunnilingus, doggy style, things that shouldn't be discussed.
No, darlin', nothing like that goes on in my mind, only in yours, which apparently is a rather twisted place, or at least not a place where much reading comprehension occurs.
In my mind:
Basic sex ed = puberty and what to expect from it; reproduction and how to avoid it until you're grown up and ready for it; STDs and how to avoid them; perhaps a few basics about how not be a total ass to your bfs/gfs/sex partners, and how to handle it when someone inevitably treats you like shit
Joy of Sex (Hetero and Gay) = detailed information, with photographs, about sexual positions and techniques, how to have a more satisfying and exciting sex life, etc.
Basic sex ed = an appropriate and necessary topic for parents to discuss with straight AND gay kids
Joy of (Gay or Straight) Sex = an area into which parents really need not go with their children of whatever sexual orientation!
I tend to agree, R51. The problem is that some gay kids are isolated from peers and/or just don't have the usual ways that teens learn about sex. There may not be any peers or they may be closeted. And not all communities have resources for gay youth. What to do? I imagine if I were in this situation, I might give it to a teen depending on his/her maturity level. (beyond the basic sex ed. s/he'd get at home and school). It's preferable to porn.
r51, you're that pissed simply because the title of the book had the word JOY in it?
And thanks for proving my point that you're an eldergay. Who goes around calling others darlin except ancient queens?
You're just bitter, gay teens nowadays have more acceptance than you ever did. When you were a teen, it was shocking to hear the words "gay" and "joy" in the same sentence, and that's why you're so bothered by this.
if this thing is real, it's disturbing. What kid wants to hear sex advice from their parents?
R52, but what if the kid gets to the chapter about doggy style and how to give a blowjob?
The horrors! I'd much rather the parents not give him that book, and that the kid learn about gay sex by watching gay porn where the participants are drug-addicted barebacking whores who don't even identify as gay because being gay is icky.
Did any of you read the original post. They gave the kid the book. They didn't force him to read it. They didn't sit down with him and go through it.
They simply gave him access to the information.
Did you read my entire post, R55?
Actually it's been a long time since I've seen a copy of the Joy of Gay Sex but in this day and age, with so much porn available and distorting sexual relations (and to some degree sex acts), it's probably even more sensible of the parents to give the kid a copy of TJoGS. Sort of fighting fire with fire. A pamphlet, compared to Sean Cody, is at a disadvantage. Sadly.
I'm 4---something. I've learned a lot about gay sexual relations in this thread. Frankly, based on this place, I thought I was a lone Mary in a world of sex positives. Example, the Musto's top five places to have gay sex. Most criticism of him wasn't because of the nature of the transaction, but because he's so fugly.
It's nice to see how many gay people have a conventional view of what a healthy sexual relationship is.
I'm always skeezed out by parents who go out of their way to be friends with their kids. Talk about boundary issues!!! Why didn't they just get him a dildo, lube, and rent boy?
[quote]Parents talking to straight kid about sex= basic sex ed. Parents talking to gay kid about sex= cunnilingus, doggy style, things that shouldn't be discussed.
So straight sex is normal but gay sex is dirty, is that it?
You are a self-loathing piece of crap. Begone, this is a website for happy, out gay people, not shame-filled self-loathers who pollute the place with homophobic ideas and language.
Who says the parents have to discuss sex acts? Isn't that what the book is for? You sound like one of those straight parents horrified that they might have to "explain" gay sex to their children because openly gay people exist.
If your mind immediately goes to explicit sex acts when the topic of gay sexuality comes up, you have a deep-rooted psychological problem with gay people.
[quote]you're that pissed simply because the title of the book had the word JOY in it?
I'm not pissed about any aspect of this discussion, but certainly not about the word "Joy" in the title "Joy of Sex." WTF? I think the *content* of the Joy of Sex--i.e., photos, etc., of people having sex--is something most teens would rather procure on their own than receive as a gift from dear old mom and dad. That is all.
I do agree that straight teens probably are far more likely than gay teens to receive adequate sex ed at home and school, and this situation need to be rectified. I'm just not convinced that handing out copies of the Joy of Gay Sex is the ideal solution.
Despite some of the more absurd claims in this thread, parents and schools do not typically hand out the Joy of Sex to straight kids, nor would any straight kid I've ever known want to receive that book from a parent or teacher. I'm guessing most gay teens would find it equally embarrassing and freaky to get Joy of Gay Sex in health class, or as a gift from their parents.
R52 makes a good point, though. In a situation where no other resources are available, giving Joy of Gay Sex may be better than nothing. Still, it's really not that hard these days to find resources for parent of gay kids and teens, so I'd bet almost any parent could find something more appropriate.
Oh, Dorothy! Begone?
R59 and R1 -- it's a well-meaning gesture. I do think straights assume that gay guys are more sexually-oriented than is the (general) reality.
This thread reminds me of a film I saw years ago where the main character stood up the guy he was seeing, with said bf being bashed on his way home from the failed meeting location, ending up in the hospital. The protagonist comes to visit, looking to be taken back, but has to face the guy's parents first. The somewhat rednecky (to me) dad makes it clear he's DEFINITELY NOT in a forgiving mood, with a warning such as, "IF he takes you back (which I hope he doesn't), and you hurt him again, you'll answer to me! (I'll beat the shit out of you worse than those guys did)"
These days, I think most parents who aren't fundies and/or ignorant rednecks realize that there's a good chance their kid will be gay.
No, not completely correct, r50. It is not unknown for parents to let things drop here and there along the lines of "don't be a selfish lover," "make sure you make your partner happy," "take your time," etc.
There's a million areas where parents don't want to see their kids make the same mistakes they did, or wish to impart some helpful hints or general truisms. For many, this involves the delicate area of sexual relations, too--even if you can't personally imagine it.
R61, so until the ideal/perfect solution is found, it's better not to discuss gay sex at all??
"Still, it's really not that hard these days to find resources for parent of gay kids and teens, so I'd bet almost any parent could find something more appropriate."
Please tell us about all the basic sex ed books that discuss gay sex in an adequate manner that these parents could have purchased? I mean, you say it's not that hard to find them, so I assume you must know about many of them....
Also, if no other resources are available then this book MAY be better? Of course it's better! No other resources means porn, and do you really think a gay teen would be better off learning about gay sex through gay4pay bareback porn than he is through a book that discusses joyful sex?
Newsflash, in the majority of this country/world, the only two options are: 1) No information, or 2) gay porn. So what if his parents didn't get him the perfect book, it's still better than growing up in a household where gay sex is treated as a dirty little secret that must not be discussed.
Posters like you are more pissed at the fact that the parents didn't get the "ideal" book than you are about the fact that we live in a society where gay teens have no access to information regarding sex because of the homophobic culture we live in.
[quote]I think the *content* of the Joy of Sex--i.e., photos, etc., of people having sex--is something most teens would rather procure on their own than receive as a gift from dear old mom and dad
Um, ok. I don't think the point here is what the teen wants but, rather, what the parents think is best for him. Not many parents (or educators, mental/medical health pros, etc.) would agree that it's better to allow a teen to view porn than receive educational materials from their parents, but that's assuming you're an enlightened, educated and sensitive adult and not some self-loather who thinks gay sex is dirty and parents should only discuss straight sex ed because straight sex is "normal" and gay kids will just have to fend for themselves with bareback tranny porn as their guide.
The point is not whether of not the Joy of Gay Sex is a helpful or appropriate book for a young queerling just coming out. Sex is something we all figure out for ourselves no matter what we've read about it. A few lessons about safety and everyone is pretty much good to go.
The point is that this kid has parents who love and accept him and want him to be a happy, healthy and safe gay man.
The Joy of Gay Sex has drawings, not photos. I don't know about the Joy of Sex, but I think R61 is a fucking idiot.
R67, I thought the point of this thread was to criticize his parents for loving and accepting their son instead of making him feel like a freak?
R47 is an even bigger idiot. Straight men talk about sex with boys all the time. Detailed discussions. One of the first books I bought of a gay nature was Joy of Gay Sex, which really taught me a lot that I was afraid about, specifically anal sex. Of course I'm sure it's been updated since with information that is HIV appropriate but there was not a single photo in the book back then, just drawings.
I repeat -- the parents did this because their teenage son is probably, or definitely, already viewing/obtaining a lot of sexually explicit media.
This is not happening in an environment where the kid can stay innocent and find out about gay sex on his own. He's got the Internet and his parents know it. The Internet has many virtues but it sure does steal innocence in a hurry if you are age 16 (or even 14 or 12) and curious.
[quote]What kid wants to hear sex advice from their parents?
He is not going to hear it from his parents, he is going to read it in a book. For fucks sake, how can people who are so retarded still operate a computer?
[quote]One of the first books I bought of a gay nature was Joy of Gay Sex, which really taught me a lot that I was afraid about, specifically anal sex.
Cool, r70. There's nothing wrong with the book itself, or with a teenager reading it; it's just kind of a weird gift to get from your parents (again, just the same as it would be weird for a straight kid to get the Joy of Sex from his parents). And just like you managed to get your own copy, your average horny teen is pretty resourceful about locating sex-related materials and can procure the book for himself.
And what's up with you people who think parents need to give their kids the "Joy of" books to keep them from watching porn? Newsflash: they will watch porn anyway, regardless of what materials you provide for them. You can let them know that what they're watching is not healthy or a good idea for their own lives without buying them a book depicting "nicer" ways to do it.
Yes, I am an eldergay--well, elderbi* actually, raised in the days when parents were not supposed to best buddies with whom you shared literally every fucking thing!
* As a bisexual, I can guarantee you I learned no more from my parents and teachers about how to have straight sex than I did about how to have gay sex, and that was just fine with me. And it was the 70s, so we did get plenty of sex ed in school, just not of the "here are several groovy things to do in the sack" variety.
No doubt contemporary sex ed needs to address homosexuality and the needs and concerns of gay teens to a far greater degree than it currently does, but really, what the hell gay or straight kid wants to get an actual sex manual from a parent or teacher?
I haven't seen a copy of the Gay Joy of Sex in awhile. Do the illustrations still look like they caught the Village People in the act?
Totally agree with R61/R73.
How can anybody characterize as weird any affirmative effort by parents to help their gay child build an informed, confident life?
Are the eldergays that scarred because they seem to be the ones who can't handle this.
Don't you want a world where young gay people can just get on with life without all the drama and shame and suffering and confusion? Or do you regard the gay baths and the park sex as a necessary element of the gay male experience? Where are we going? Aren't we supposed to get higher and aim higher as the years roll on and the garbage fades away?
I disagree R73. You've jumped on this issue because of your hobby horse about helicopter parenting. But in normal straight families, parents did take an interest in the sex education of their children. You are confusing your concern about contemporary parenting with responsible supportive sex education. And that's why people are resisting you. We all agree with you about helicopter parents. But this is not it.
[quote]But in normal straight families, parents did take an interest in the sex education of their children.
Again, sex education doesn't taking your kid to the hooker anymore. There are limits.
Provide information to protect his health, but let him decide what gets him off. Jeez.
R73= just doesn't get it.
"just the same as it would be weird for a straight kid to get the Joy of Sex from his parent"
It's NOT the same. Straight kids don't grow up being told that straight sex is wrong and dirty. Their parents don't even need to get them info because they'll get that info from school and their straight friends. If straight kids grew up in a culture where they are told that straight sex is wrong, then I bet their parents would want to help them learn otherwise.
"your average horny teen is pretty resourceful about locating sex-related materials and can procure the book for himself."
Of course he can! Didn't it occur to your tiny brain that maybe the main point was to let their gay kid know they are accepted? If my parents had pulled this stunt on me, I probably would've thrown the book away but knowing that my parents accept me and love anyway.
"And what's up with you people who think parents need to give their kids the "Joy of" books to keep them from watching porn?"
When did anyone say that? Do you have to make up bs to prove a point? Nobody has said that this book will keep the teen away from porn. But there's a major problem if porn is the only way you get to learn about sex. If I only learned about gay sex from gay porn, I'd think that gay sex involves money, drugs and "straight" men barebacking each other all the time without consequence.
"raised in the days when parents were not supposed to best buddies with whom you shared literally every fucking thing!"
You're an eldergay, in your day gay sex even when it involved two adults was something worth of jail. You'd rather we go back to those days?
And who says they are sharing literally everything? They gave him a book. They didn't talk to him about it or even make him read it.
Eldergays like you are filled with so much shame that they think any topic involving gays needs to be kept a secret. Anyone who talks about anything gay, in your view, is trying to throw it in people's face. You sound like a homophobe who thinks two guys sharing a kiss is equal to them shoving their lifestyle onto others.
"I can guarantee you I learned no more from my parents and teachers about how to have straight sex than I did about how to have gay sex, and that was just fine with me."
This is where you reveal what a moron hypocrite you are. Your whole post is complaining about how parents shouldn't talk to their gay teens about gay sex and how in your day, you learned things on your own. Then you go on to talk about how your own parents and teachers taught you about straight sex.
So, parents telling their child about straight sex is good parenting. But parents telling their child about gay sex is bad parenting? Oh, and since your parents talked to you about straight sex does that mean they were trying to be your best buddy friend instead of a good parent? That's what you said about these parents.
"what the hell gay or straight kid wants to get an actual sex manual from a parent or teacher?"
Are you retarded? You, yourself said you learned about straight sex from your parents and teachers! At my HS I was taught about straight sex, and guess what, they handed out pamphlet with drawings on them!
r78, shut the fuck up you loser.
So now you're saying that parents giving their gay kids info about gay sex= taking them to hookers?
The eldergays are pissed because they realize that the end of shame and hiding for young gay guys means the end of them being sexually available to geezers.
I think part of it is also bitterness.
They resent how much easier it is nowadays to be gay. Back in their days, it's like you had to earn you spots and the whole world was against you. They resent gays who didn't go through the same struggles as they did and view them as spoiled, unworthy.
I don't think they resent it so much as they're trapped in their experience, which is understandable. I do think there's real growing pains going on in the gay community right now as we struggle to really accept that there's a whole lot of ways to be gay now.
R80 along the same lines to a greater extreme.
Deal with it. Whore.
Some of you are just too young to remember.
Pity. Pick up a book.
And that's a how-to book with gratuitous exposure, not "information."
Remebering's one thing. Being cemented in it is another.
"Cemented?" That's very black-white thinking.
There exists a healthy middle ground.
No psychiatrist would say this is normal. They crossed the line.
[quote]the parents did this because their teenage son is probably, or definitely, already viewing/obtaining a lot of sexually explicit media.
If that's the reason why the parents did it, they need professional help.
[quote]When was the last time you saw two people "making love" in porn?
"Making love"? God, you must be a fat frau. Sex isn't love, honey.
My parents gave me a book about sex and sexuality, and that was somewhere around 1967 when I was 12.
I'm so glad they did, and even happier they hadn't read it first. They had no idea how 'liberal' it was.
They had explained earlier that first you fall in love, then you get married, and then delved into the mechanics.
I think these parents are terrific, and if Ihad kids (God forbid) I would have done the same.
I wish my parents would have done this. I would have lived a much healthier life, mentally.
At least they didn't give him Everything you wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask! I read that in the public library as a teen and it warped my view of how I should operate as a gay man. (Although tearoom sex still gives me a weird thrill.)
[quote]No psychiatrist would say this is normal. They crossed the line.
Your ignorance is breathtaking.
R91, are you impaired in some way? Reading comprehension is clearly not your strong suit. "Sex isn't love" is the exact point that poster was making.
Do you commonly struggle with simple concepts? Have you sought help for your disability? I wish you well.
R89 is correct.
The parents were extremely intrusive in my opinion. Sex is the boy's private world, his fantasies, his possibilities. The first time he has gay sex, he'll be hearing his fathers voice in his head. It's all fucked up.
I wonder what book the tampon-eating girl's parents gave her.
Probably a bible, R99.
Most people who act out sexually do so because of childhood sexual abuse and/or shame-based religious indoctrination, not because they had liberal parents who fostered healthy attitudes about sex.