Helicopter Parenting...

[quote] Psychologists warn that overparenting is helping to produce a generation of anxious children who aren't resilient, have poor life skills, a strong sense of entitlement and little sense of responsibility. Interesting article...

http://www.theage.com.au/national/a-hovering-parent-arrests-growth-study-20130119-2d0p4.html



• Bump (to move it above the five pages of threads asking whether DL is down!)

  OP

• .

• I own a business down the street from a grade school and what I find fascinating and disturbing at the same time are the number of parents taking and picking up their kids from school. I realize it isn't unusual but the numbers are ridiculous. Hundreds and hundreds of cars flood the neighborhood 8:15am and many parents don't leave until 9am. Do they work? There are events at the school some days and again these parent flood the hood in the middle of the day? Do they work? At 2:15pm fives days a week parents again flood the hood and it doesn't stop until 3:30pm. Do they work? What also is interesting is when both parents take and pick up theirs kids and half the time they have the grandparents with them. There nothing special going on it's just a regular school day. One last observation is the trend of parent holding everything for the kids as they go to and come back from school. I mean everything from backpacks, lunch bags, books, science projects and more. The parents are over loaded with stuff and the kids carry nothing.

• this is news because....?

• What do you expect from the generation who grew up dreading "stranger danger," that they'd actually let anyone anywhere near their brats?

• Its backlash against the latchkey/see you when the streetlights come on, wild and wonderful feral childhoods the kids of the 70s and 80s were lucky enough to have.

• sickening.

• well?

• Parents can't win. They are either suffocating helicopters or they are neglectful. There is no in between.

• r9 = frau

• If R9 is a frau, she speaks the truth. Parents are a judgmental lot. I think it releases some sort of endorphins to tell another parent, "You're doing that wrong." If you DON'T attend all of the soccer practices, all of the volunteer oportunities at school, etc, ALL of the party invitations. They will talk shit about you. It's complete horseshit and altho my kid is only two, I've already turned down invitations to attend birthday parties for toddlers. No, I'm not going to be your free babysitter for 4 hours on my only Saturday off.

• Your pussy stinks r11 if your agree with r9. THERE IS A MIDDLE FOR PARENTS! IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A TWO SIDED LIFE! SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH!!!!!!!!

• And I'm living it R12. Here, I'll put it in all caps so you understand. "I'M GIVING MY MOTHERFUCKING CHILD A SECURE CHILDHOOD WITHOUT LETTING HIM THINK HE'S THE CENTER OF MY PUSSY FUMED UNIVERSE! CHRIIIIIIIIST!

• Haven't read the article, but I hear people at work talking all the time about the anxiety disorders their kids have, as well as all the prescription drugs they take. Shit, in the summer, my mom threw us out of the house at 9 in the morning, would let us come back for lunch, then we had to scatter til 4 again. It was the same for every kid. There was never a shortage of kids to find to play with or do stuff with outside. We were always on the go - no cellphones, no parents following us around or driving us everywhere. I don't think we were any less safe then than kids would be today.

  80%27s%20kid

• " I'M A PEDO! "

  R13

• R14, studies show crimes against children are way down. The main culprits (as usual) are family members, trusted friends or the coach of all the activities little Maxton is overscheduled for. I'm trying to get the parents I know to have a little free range playgroup for our kids. So far I've had 1 taker and she still followed her kid all around the playground (one made for toddlers, he couldn't have gotten hurt if he tried)

  R11

• Yes, because Pedos *hate* child's birthday parties. Idiot.

• " I WIPE BACK TO FRONT! "

  R17

• R16, wtf is wrong with today's parents? Why are they so crazy and obsessive? Do they all have a OCD problem? What is your experience? Details please. :)

• this is three times more likely

• It IS almost like OCD, R19. I have two boys, one in college and one still in high school. I'm the first to admit that they have been coddled and spoiled since birth. I am very aware that spoiling them has been harmful and yet I can't stop doing it. I take care of everything for them---cooking, laundry, appointments, college applications---EVERYTHING. I even warm up their cars before school. I know it's bad, but I can't stop, because now they're both so helpless they can't do anything on their own....or refuse to. It's a mess. If I had it to do over, i would definitely do things differently. Why has this happened? My theory is that women who have given up successful careers to become mothers are sublimating all that energy into competitive parenting. Also, taking care of your kids = love. Not taking care of them feels like neglect or being selfish and uncaring. Intellectually I know it's harmful to helicopter them, but emotionally it feels right to take care of and protect those you love.

  Superfrau

• Just be honest, R21. You don't have to pretend to be a frau to post your theory.

• r21 = r9 the extreme helicopter can't find the middle ground of parenting mental case.

• I'm R16 and R6 (posted from my phone) It is a direct backlash to the wonderful childhoods we got to have. The worst we experienced were some wounds making forts, spills on our bikes and once a guy who turned out to be whacking off asked us from his car where the movie theater was. It made us stronger (and made us laugh) The parents of today want to save their kids from that. They also remember the teachers who bullied them and that the common reaction back then was "Respect your elders" so they they went to the other extreme "My Maxton would never lie or be lazy, this teacher has it out for him." It may even be true but not in every single fucking case. I'm hoping the pendulum switches back but I don't see any signs of it. Yes, you'll get parents to agree that Helicopter Parenting is terrible but then you invite them to play and they hover like the "best" of them. One lady lets her 8 year old wait at the bus stop in the mornings (most don't). Another neighbor friend and her mother drove up, gave her an envelope and said "Give this to your mother." The girl did and the note inside said something like "I was this close to your daughter today, she was alone at 8am at the bus stop, I could've snatched her up!" So now she feels terrible and takes her fucking daughter to school every day. Nevermind that the daughter was familiar with both the girl and her mother. She's not a stupid kid, she doesn't sit and play video games and is aware of her surroundings at the bus stop. The parental peer pressure to be up your kids asses is insane and so are the ringleaders of this horseshit. EVERY young animal plays. I bet even single celled ones tussle playfully when they divide. What we've set up for kids with this constant supervision (and parking them in front of video games b/c it's "safe") is not good for their development at all. They won't learn consequences, they won't get their "ya-yas out" they will constantly crave authority or chafe at it to the point that they become little bomb throwers.

• It's the New Perfectionism. Everything must be just right, nothing left to chance. Competition is cutthroat. Make a mistake and you'll end-up on the 6 o'clock new, or ostracized by the community.

• There's more to the psychopathology that competition, although that is a factor. Not everyone enjoyed the "feral" childhoods of the preceding decades, for some of us it didn't mean endless playtime, it meant doing all the housework and fending off pedo relatives, and all protests ignored (no, really). So a lot of today's parents grew up feeling neglected and unloved, and they're trying to make sure their kids feel the parental love and support they never got. And the competitiveness in displays of love is driving the basic emotional response to ridiculous level.

• I'm so fucking glad I didn't breed although I probably should have because, as the child of good parents, I know I'd be a good parent. r14 made me smile. My siblings and I had a 60's and 70s childhood. After weekend morning chores we were kicked out of the house, allowed to return briefly for a snack at lunch then booted out until supper. Ice skating, tag, bikeriding, "Red light, green light, hope to see a ghost tonight" all engaged in together by all the neighborhood kids. Those days are gone and they ain't never coming back...

  Della

• I hired a receptionist a few months ago. The other day I wanted to talk to her about something and she was on her cell phone with her daughter discussing what the kid should have for a snack when she got home. When I motioned to her that I wanted to talk to her, her brushed me away and said she could not talk right now. I'm the guy who signs her paycheck and it isn't the first time it happened. If she does it again, she can stay home and talk to her daughter about nutrition all she fucking wants. I fired another receptionist because she was constantly on her cell phone with her kids. WTF is wrong with these people?

• R21, I have a question for you. If you had only daughters instead of sons, would you still be spoiling them into complete dependence?

• It's just the latest generation of mothers and fathers thinking that no one has ever raised children before, that no group of children has ever had more challenges than this one (try the Depression ladies and gents), and, of course, that no one who is not a parent can ever understand the pressures that kids are under, ironically mostly the pressure from the parents themselves.

• I am intrigued by R21. You know you are not doing your children any favors. You are, in fact, doing harm - yet you continue with the same behavior. [quote]Also, taking care of your kids = love. Not taking care of them feels like neglect or being selfish and uncaring. Intellectually I know it's harmful to helicopter them, but emotionally it feels right to take care of and protect those you love. I guess you couldn't stay focused on the bigger picture. High school and college aged, so ... too late now. I do thank you for your total honesty. Good luck to all.

• I'm not sure, R29. I don't have girls so I can't say how I would be with them. Probably the same. Many of my friends have daughters and they are just as helpless and entitled.....some more so. The coddling epidemic has created kids who can't cope, who have never been allowed to fail, and who have no demands put on them. So, when parents finally wise up and start holding their teenagers accountable to "get a job, go to college, get good grades, clean your room"--it's too late. Spoiled kids get overwhelmed and shut down emotionally, or they rebel and start getting into trouble with drugs and alcohol. This scares parents so they back off. It's a vicious cycle that's hard to unwind once set in motion.

• You can't always assume it's coddling re: the picking up and dropping off at school. School district budgets are still suffering and some schools do not have bus service. My son takes the bus but my daughter has no bus service - he's in middle school, she's in high school. It's hard but I drive her in the morning and my partner picks her up in the afternoon. I also live by a school so I know how bad the traffic sucks, but that's where our son gets the bus so it helps. I just try to be patient.

• R21/R29, you do realize that even if your lumps manage to find women, your future daughters-in-law will end up hating your guts for raising such useless, helpless, cluless morons.

• No, r32, it's actually quite simple. You're hurting your kids, you know it, just fucking stop.

• R26's middle paragraph is the reason my BFF (born 1959) gives for helicopter parenting not only her kids, but now her grandkids (whom her kids are not equipped to raise). In her reproductive years, she vowed to do everything just the opposite of the way her parents did it. You can't go to the opposite extreme and create balance. There has to be a compromise. Good luck suggesting that to damaged people of whatever generation.

• It's got tobe hard raising helecopters. Haw many times can you tell them to straighten up and fly right?

• The term should be "Helicopter Mothering," because fathers only get involved if sports or college admission is involved. Otherwise, especially for grade school kids, the title belongs exclusively to women.

• We already have a generation of self-entitled thanks to schools giving a Gold Star to every kid on a team that loses. Back in the day we learned that not everyone is a winner, which gave us the incentive to do better. That concept is long gone.

• Seriously, though, this isn't a new phenomenon. Baby boomers were the original Special Snowflakes. How do I know? Well, as far as my mother was concerned, I just couldn't melt. And I had a grandmother and an aunt who thought I was every bit as special. My father and brother didn't stand a chance. My father's side of the family? Fugeddaboudit.

• I have to wonder about these people like R27 who were booted out of the house and only allowed in at mealtimes. What happened when it rained? I was raised in the 50s and 60s and never booted out. But I was in and out all the time playing at my house of the neighbors. My mother had to know where I was, but I was busy doing all the kid stuff, including reading.

• "Baby boomers were the original Special Snowflakes." I don't agree. The Baby Boomers were raised by the "greatest generation", who had grown up during the Great Depression and WWII. The GG-ers told their BB children to work hard, scrimp and save, do their duty, wait until marriage, go overseas and suck up bullets, and never complain... and the Baby Boomers said "screw THAT! The Baby Boomers weren't so much spoiled, as rebelling against comparatively stern parenting.

• R41, God you are literal minded. It is not as if we were forbidden to enter the house for any reason. It is not as if we had to crap behind a bush and use a leaf to wipe. When it rained we stayed inside.

• A certain small number of kids WILL inevitably come to serious harm when allowed a lot of freedom. Kidnappings, rapes, murders and a whole host of accidents occur. That's the price of freedom......and we did pay it years ago. Back in the day a few kids every year DID crack their heads open from riding bikes without a helmet. But the pendulum has swung the other way to the point where today's parents don't want their special snowflakes to be exposed to ANY danger---no matter how small the chance of harm may be. So, even though millions of kids grew up riding bikes with no helmet, the fact that a few got brain damaged is enough for parents to insist that their kids always wear one. Today's generation of parents want their kids to be exposed to zero risk and to have every advantage possible. They are willing to clear a path for their kids so they are rarely challenged. We are only recently starting to see how damaging such protectiveness can be.

• One thing I'm seeing more of now that you hardly ever saw when I was growing up is parents and children who actually seem to enjoy each others' company. Certainly a lot of parents have gone too far treating their kids like lapdogs or trying to be their friends, but what usually happens is that their kids will grow up vowing not to do it to their kids and try something else which may or may not work but will at least not screw them up in the particular way that they were screwed up. At least we're not all robotically imitating our own parents.

• R42 In my case (R40), you may be *partly* right. My father was a lot like you describe. He was the cheapest son of a bitch who ever lived, and didn't want to see either of his sons enjoy anything the Great Depression had screwed him out of. I had to listen to his only two conversational points (a. Depression Bad and b. WWII good) every day of my life until I left home. He was truly the angriest dog in the world. Partly in reaction to that, and partly because she realized at some point she'd married the wrong guy, she did everything she could to be the opposite of, the antidote to, my father. But trust me when I say I was absolutely brought up as what we now refer to as a Special Snowflake, if only by my mother.

• "The Baby Boomers weren't so much spoiled." Many baby boomers helped to destroy the social security net through their own selfish greed and entitlement as well as developed outsourcing of jobs because they decided that Americans weren't good enough to work for their precious companies. You can shit on the younger generation all you want (some of it is needed), but they've essentially been royally fucked (as well as members of Gen X and Y) by the selfishness of many baby boomers. And the baby boomers couldn't even gay rights passed in this country. Nor a black man elected President. You can thank Gen X and Y for that.

• [quote]And the baby boomers couldn't even gay rights passed in this country. No, we were busy coming out, Douche R7, so that brats like you could talk about "gay rights" in public. All things in good time.

• [quote] Back in the day a few kids every year DID crack their heads open from riding bikes without a helmet. The modern day equivalent seems to be kids run down by their mother or father in a 4-wheel drive (or equivalent) in an urban drive-way.

• [quote] And the baby boomers couldn't even gay rights passed in this country. Nor a black man elected President. You can thank Gen X and Y for that. That's utter rubbish, R47. It's relatively easy in the USA and similar countries today to be openly gay or lesbian. It was the courage and energy of gays and lesbians in the 1950s-1990s, in particular, where people risked their health, wealth and life, that paved the way for the recent legislative changes. We might have a black president, but we have never had a female president. Obarma did not, until very very recently, support same sex marriage. And he would not have supported it if it he hadn't seen it as politically okay. As for him being black, one would expect him to have experienced discrimination during his life, which should have made him much more concerned about discrimination against gays and lesbians that he has been.

• Why can't parents today raise children the way the Dataloungers' parents raised them? Look how incredibly healthy and great they turned out!

  the%20underlying%20message%20of%20this%20thread

• A colleague who teaches some classes at a local state university told me that one of her students approached her after class one day and asked "did you get the e-mail from my mother?" "About what?" "Never mind. I'm sure my mother will be in touch." As it turned out, the mom was concerned that her daughter had been penalized for turning in a required paper a week late, because the student (a junior aged 20) had been having a tough time with a breakup. I said I couldn't even believe parents get involved in things like that, but apparently it is all too common.

• Death to Baby Boomers!

• OH, R53, you're so cute! Go back to kindergarten.

• H Parents must die!

• I teach these kids. Let me tell you, many of the kids are so screwed up because of this. I have HS students who can’t handle any stress. They are 15 and are in and out of mental hospitals because they hurt themselves (aka cutting) or have food issues (the only things they can control are what they eat and what they do to their body). I so many kids who are on meds for stress. One change from the norm and they fall apart. I have parents who tell me their kid would never cheat when i have proof. (Other teachers have had the same problem.) I have parents who tell me their kid would never lie. Have you met a teenager? Nothing is their kid’s fault and even if it is, they shouldn’t be punished. And, I know a fifteen year old who can’t tie his own shoe laces. I also have kids whose parents don’t give a shit and want me to raise their kids. We are going to have a lot of adults who will not be able to function in the real world. It’s going to be a mess.

• My mom raised me to be a combination of what you describe, R56, except she assumed that I DID do bad things when I didn't. There are different manifestations of self-absorption on behalf of parents, some of which seem exactly the opposite, but all of which lead to similar results. Unless the kid gets lucky and is able to become an ambitious sociopath, if only to achieve some independence and money for himself. In fact, that seems to increasingly be the only way of making enough money these days: overcompensating to the point of being ruthless and not caring or even realizing.

• I have friends with kids and am appalled whenever they are quick to side with their kids against their teachers. To hear them talk, the teachers and administrators are out to get these kids. Can they actually believe that? My parents never did that. Sure, there were times when I was being victimized by a teacher, other times when I surely played a role in earning that treatment. But I learned from it. Learned that life ain't always fair and you have to suck it up. R56, you are so spot-on about their inability to deal with stress. When too many demands seem to be placed on their kids, my friends will let them take a day off here or there or go in late so that they miss the test or have time to catch up. Are they going to do that in the real world when work gets tough? Meanwhile, these kids are forever having meltdowns because of the pressure. I really wonder how these kids will survive in the real world.

• r58, my parents reinforced the authority of teachers, by telling them, in front of us, "if she/he misbehaves you let me know." If we dared act up at school, the surest way to get us back in line was for the teacher to tell us, "Your parents told me to call them if you misbehave because their will be consequences at home as well as here." That was a very powerful deterrent to bad behavior. Within the past few years I asked my Mom why some parents constantly blamed others or defended thier child's bad behavior and she said, "Because they know they're poor parents and by always siding with thier kids, they think they're making it up to their kids." It's true- people are breeding who shouldn't be and others, like me who would be a good parent because I had good parents, aren't.

  Della

• Part of why they feel they're poor parents is because both parents have to work nowadays. You people reminiscing about the good old days tend to forget that it was a lot easier for one parent to work back then than it is now. Are there some mistakes being made today? Of course. An interesting discussion could be had on this, but this thread seems to be nothing more than a bunch of cranky old men lashing out at the youth of today, while whitewashing their own generation's mistakes. Continue your complaining.....

• Nowadays, the only reasons left for having children are ones of a completely selfish nature. More than ever, parents see their offspring as extensions of themselves (abuse), but since the parents are often self-loathing from influences of their own parents and the preceding time period, and so forth, they over-supervise all the wrong things and under-supervise all the wrong things based on their own neuroses. And I'm not just talking about discipline. Parents need to give kids space to form their own identities and trust their young kids to a certain extent. No identity=no chance.

  What%2C%20kids%20aren%27t%20for%20decoration%3F

• R51 has the definitive response to this thread.

• Nonsense, r60. Through most of human history parents have worked and somehow, magically, simultaneously managed to raise children to healthy adulthood. The idea that the only way to effectively mother (which is what you are talking about--you have no expectation that men leave the paid labor force in order to be fathers, and any man who suggested such would be roundly ridiculed) is to be in your child´s presence 24 hours a day 7 days a week is exactly what has produced destructive helicoptering. It always amazes me how retrograde and primitive many gay men are in their thinking about effective parenting and how to raise healthy children and their weird devotion to unneccessary housewifery. Nothing is as destructive to a child as parents who cannot provide for them.

• I left my kid alone and he almost got blown up. Thank god for Tootie

  Jean%20Smart.

• Not every kid is the same, r63. Some kids need a parent at home more than others. I'm not r60 and I can't speak for others, but I think it doesn't make a difference whether it's a mother or father.

• The biggest offender I know is a stay-at-home mom, so the theory about it relating to both parents working doesn't always hold water. It's more than that. I had to lay this at the feet of the moms but, unfortunately, too many dads leave the parenting to their wives. And there is an epic battle between working moms and stay-at-home moms, each desperate to prove that theirs is the right choice. That can't bear for little Madison to do anything that suggests their approach -- and quality of their skills -- is anything but flawless.

• Yeah I had a childhood of the 70s. Completely different. Starting at about fifth grade your life began to completely separate from your parents. I feel bad for today's kids. We had a blast. We were like a roving band of gypsies on our bikes. Our parents would probably get arrested if they did the same thing today. Like others said you were home for breakfast, maybe lunch(a lot of times we got money to buy lunch at the lake), and then supper, then back out again until it got dark. It seemed every house on the block had their own cowbell with a different tone to ring in their kids. I couldn't even imagine wanting my parents around. The funny thing is I would say that I felt really close to my parents too.

• [quote] Starting at about fifth grade your life began to completely separate from your parents. This is the thing. Kids aren't having their own lives and own time. I'd say it was maybe closer to 7th grade for me, but still the same point...and these days, because mom and dad are likely divorced by the time Madison or Morgan are in 7th grade, the kid's life is scheduled to the nth degree and he/she never has a moment to explore or be themselves. Parents are so overprotective that they never let a kid make a MISTAKE, which is the way kids learn. I'm in a writing class with a girl who can't be more than 20. She was asked to write some basic thoughts on something. When she didn't have any ideas, and could not call her mother, she burst into TEARS. She'll be a new sow at the trough in three to five years.

• Exactly, R67. I think we were better prepared for stranger danger, too. I can't imagine what my 14 year old niece would do if someone tried to pick her up. She can't make a decision to save her life either. She has no responsibility, and gets whatever she wants. She's been on more medication than I even care to count and she cuts. Funny thing? She's not even the exception in her class.

• That was my experience too, R67. I feel so badly for today's kids -- I would have hated having all my afternoons and weekends scheduled with mommy-supervised activities. By the time we were ten or so, my siblings and I had our own lives with the neighbor kids and my parents were free to enjoy their free time, too. Looking back, I'm very grateful that my mother had interests other than obsessive parenting. I remember reading about "attachment parenting" years ago and thinking that it would be good for infants and toddlers. I had no idea at the time that parents would take it into grade school and beyond. Attachment parenting for your helpless 30-something! What a great idea.

• r60 = lame ass

• But it's funny I kind of buy into the stranger danger thing too. I get brainwashed by the media and the amber alerts too. It's like you forget. If I had kids today I would probably be a bit of a helicopter parent too. It's the fear. Jesus Christ. I remember when we hit High School. We used to hitchhike EVERYWHERE. Another big factor I think is this no tolerance bullshit. When we were growing up we smoked pot, cigarettes, shoplifted, cheated on tests, I got in more fights than I can remember, and the worst thing that happened(and it was the worst) was you got turned over to your parents. Not the cops. Hell you had to murder someone to get the cop attention. Fear is just so ingrained in every aspect of the lives of today's kids. I feel really sorry for them. I call it an SPF world. Hell when we were kids we had tan lines until November. Could you imagine showing up to ride bikes with your friends in one of those helmets they force kids to wear today? Ahhhhh my kingdom for a chunk of a big buddy and a Cumberland Farms Icee.

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  R67

• Sorry cunts but it really isn't just Mommies. Dads are some of the worst helicopter parents. I see it everyday. Men have become what their wives want.

• look it up! there hasn't been an increase in crime against kids. THE MEDIA IS PUSHING IT! STOP BEING BRAINWASHED!

• So what do these kids (young adults now) need? Is there any way to undo what's been done to them? What's the best way to effectively deal with the ones who have been helicopter parented?

• '60's - '70's kid here, too. In the summer my mother would give us money for the municipal pool and all 3 of us would trundle off on foot about a mile away with our beach stuff. Not come home until dinner around 5pm. Weekdays was school, TV and bath. But weekends were; bundle them up, and the neighborhood for blocks and blocks was our "backyard". I guess everyone kept an eye out for other's kids.

• Yeah R76. It seemed the moms rotated being the block mother. I remember conversations that started like this: "I got a call from Mrs. Martin today. She saw you and your friends. Anything you want to tell me." You had to make a gamble on where to start until you hit the correct offense. And if some neighborhood lady yelled at you there was none of this "don't talk to my child that way."

• I grew up in the 1960s. Count me as another one thrown out of the house. Maybe "thrown out" is a bit of hyperbole... but yes, we were expected to be out of the house during the day (but back for lunch and out again). R67 said it well, "We were like a roving band of gypsies..." I can't believe none of us were killed...climbing trees, skating on half frozen ponds, we'd dug holes and build forts, climb walls and jump off...

• 60/70's kid here. My parents NEVER did my special projects with me or for me. We did our homework on our own. Sure, if I had a question I'd get some help but my parents were not doing it by my side. We were expected to finish on our own time. I would usually do my homework right after school or work on it on and off during slow classes. Kids these days don't even do their own projects. Mom and Dad do it for them. If the school or another parent called it was "what the hell did you do?" not the "how dare you accuse my child" that you get now. I have a friend who teaches 1st grade and she said she has to tiptoe around the parents who all have the attitude that their child is an angel who does not lie or ever make a mistake. These parents obviously don't remember being a devious, conniving brat that most kids really are.

• R65, no child beyond toddlerhood needs to be in their parents´ presence 24-7 unless they are severely disabled. And ¨the Mommy Wars¨ are a media contrivance designed to manipulate women into resenting and distrusting each other and above all distrusting themselves. There is always a market for mining women´s sense of guilt and inadequacy and trying to turn them against each other.

• R75, I think we should require everyone to serve 2 years in military after high school, like Israel. Or we should require kids to do some sort of volunteer "mission" work from 18-20 y/o. They need to get out in the gritty world and grow the fuck up.

• Edrusgay Reveries!

  Coming%20To%20A%20Drive-In%20Near%20You%21

• TODAYS PARENTS ARE MENTALLY ILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• I love that idea, R81. I think compulsory service of some sort should be part of getting student aid or student loans. It could be the Peace Corps, Habitat for Humanity or a few other things, not just military or National Guard. It would filter out all the people who just float aimlessly through college, and it would give aid and loans to people who are more likely to complete college and be useful, meaningful people in society.

• [quote] Kids these days don't even do their own projects. Mom and Dad do it for them. It's true. I have a friend who teaches at an elementary school and the "art wall" there is a joke. Paintings supposively done by first-graders are obviously the painstaking work of parents. I wonder what benefit the parents think there is in that? Do they really think their six-year-old (sorry, SEVEN-year-olds, most kids are red-shirted these days) will be traumatized if their art looks like it was done by a little kid?

• Yesterday, I saw an uncomfortable seen at a store. A mother, voice raised loudly, was bent down, face right in her child's, hollering, "I told you to stay right next to me!" Embarrassed and uncomfortable, I quickly averted my eyes. Other customers were startled, too. Obviously, out of fear, that Mom lost control. I felt bad for both of them. That little boy probably still is feeling the sting of humiliation for being so publicly dressed down, and in fairness to the Mom, she is probably regretting her actions, too. The upshot is that I whispered to my Mom, "Wow, I don't ever remember you or Dad screaming at us kids in a store." She replied, "You kids wouldn't have been with me in the first place." That's so true. when we were young, it was an extra-special thing, usually at Christmastime, to be in a big, exciting store. But the law was laid down before entering: no running around, n touching things, no speaking to sales clerks. If we even thought of causing troulbe,there was no need for my parents to raise their voices in public. Instead, the all purpose, all powerful, silent but deadly parental death glare was successfuly deployed.

  Della

• Umm...Is this still a site for gay men?

  Anonymous

• I was a latchkey kid. We didn't even need keys to our house. We'd just break in, jig the window open, push the screen and we had entry. Used to go home for lunch every day, even though my mother packed my lunch.

• Exactly R14. My mother used to say, "Go outside, I'm watching my stories!" Even she didn't stay home long. As soon as my oldest brother was 12 he was "the babysitter."

• I work in the Registrar's Office at a state university and we are in the midst of Early Registration (pre-registration for the fall). Last week a mother (of a college sophomore) phoned cursing a blue streak when her daughter was placed on a Waiting List for an elective class for the fall (Human Anatomy). She had already complained to the professor, and the next step was the President's Office. Mother did not care that priority goes to nursing and sports medicine students who must take that for their degrees; no one had ever told her daughter no to anything. In the back of my mind, I was thinking "No one puts Baby in the corner", but I let her vent. And vent. We are used to parents calling us accusing us of computer errors when their Darlings get grades of C or B or when we will not reschedule final exams to allow the kids to be done earlier in May. I've been in higher education for 20+ years and it is getting worse.

• CUNTS!!!!!!!!!!

• hah, r90. When I was in college, my roomate tried to kill me. I had to beg my parents to intercede to get that guy removed from the dorm. They were like "you're an adult, you take care of it." My 23-year old nephew is still in college. He transfered schools and changed his major, so he lost some credits, but still - he's been an undergrad for six years. Yesterday, I reminded my sister that she had a masters degree, worked full time, got married and bought a house when she was 23. They were both shocked. I think my nephew was a little embarrassed.

• bmp

• Is it a certain "class" of people that do this, I wonder? Sounds like middle class wannabes. We're starting to see the results of these poor babies' upbringing.