A child can only eat macaroni and cheese if you only feed him macaroni and cheese. The same for fries, chicken 'fingers' etc.
If you feed your child a wide variety of foods, including mushrooms, onions, and all the other things that can carry into adulthood then they will eat them.
A two year old may protest, but will not starve.
I agree. My step-brother and his wife have two kids who only eat hot dogs, chicken nuggets, mac and cheese, etc. That's all they will eat because that's all they are served. When she does cook a big, nice meal they push the food around their plate and usually end up having a tantrum and not eating anything except the desserts and then it's like three servings of that. What pisses me off is that they will usually only eat half of a piece of cake and let the rest go to waste, then come back 30 minutes later and get another piece, left half eaten.
Holidays are lovely with these tots.
Taste varies by the individual, but exposure is important, of course.
When in Vietnam I watched kids eating all kinds of vegetables even crisp bugs.
American parents make American kids vegetable phobic.
While grocery shopping the other day the guy in front of me was checking out with his son and their cart was loaded with chips, CapriSun drinks, processed frozen snack foods and some kind of kiddie yogurt which means loaded with sugar as are the "juice" drinks. Parents know nothing about nutrition now so how can they teach their kids?
Nobody should feed anyone mushrooms. Those things are vile.
R5 thanks for coming on a a real life example of a picky eater.
My parents had a strict rule that we'd eat at least one spoonful of everything served...they had varied tastes and were devotees of James Beard and Julia Child. It worked a little too well, in fact.
I'm with you R5. I hate the texture and slightly musty taste of mushrooms. The sight of those portobellos being served puts me off too.
I love crispy green things but mushy stuff like mushrooms and eggplant is gross to me.
On a similar note, what about the one commercial featuring the mother trying to feed her son who refuses to eat and the mother says "My son Jimmy is a finicky eater. So his doctor recommended PediaSure for all of his required needs". When I was a child, my mother and father made sure we ate our meals. If we didn't, they would simply say "Fine, but you'll be hungry at bedtime". None of this "oh, you don't have to eat it if you don't want to, we'll just get you a dietary supplement".
R6, I'm not a picky eater. I eat a wide variety of foods and love a lot of different things.
I'm pointing out that you can't force things on everyone.
Everyone insists to me that mushrooms don't have much flavor. Well, to me, they're so intense it's painful and disgusting. Even a tiny bit is like having my mouth packed full of compost and dirt. It's utterly vile.
For other people, Cilantro tastes like soap and is deeply unpleasant.
These are PHYSICAL reactions, based on differences in the way taste buds are wired. I'm a super-taster for mushrooms and other very similarly flavored things, and it's intensely unpleasant. The smell of mushrooms sautéing in butter literally (and I do mean literally) makes me gag and vomit. It's so intensely unpleasant I can't even imagine how people can deal with it.
This whole notion that it's all the parents fault needs to be a bit tempered by reality here, that some people ARE in fact wired differently and DO experience some tastes and sensations differently.
Another food thread.....
Next comes the autism thread
The fibromyalgia thread
We've already got today's race thread
The frau thread is lined up ..
Say... Aren't today's kids delicate snowflakes?
I was the kid who hated to eat. Everything. Sending me to bed saying I'd be hungry never worked. I didn't care, and didn't ever feel hungry. There was nothing my mother could have done to change me, but she didn't cater to me, how could she, I hated all food.
My gf had a picky eater, and she let her starve to death rather than . The other kids learned a good lesson from that. No more problems.
Cook a variety of things, keep different kinds of snack food around, easy on the sugar, but an occasional bag of potato chips or a cookie isn't going to hurt anybody. You make a fuss, they can just get it at a friend's house.
Don't make a big deal of what they will and won't eat, "Try this you will probably like it," works eventually. Keep eating relaxed and pleasant, something to enjoy with other people.
Eat healthy foods in front of them.
Most people broaden their tastes as they move through the teen years.
Don't sweat the small stuff, pick your battles and food is way down on the list.
When I was a child, we did not eat junk food! We were not "vegan." We had no "food allergies" nor did we have food "preferences."
We did not sass our parents, or stay up past our bedtimes.
We said our prayers, ate our vegetables, played outside, respected our elders, wrote in beautiful Palmer script, added and subtracted in our heads.
We had no "video games" or "face booking."
We had no calculators. We used the slide rule and the abacus. We dipped our pens in inkwells that were built into out one-piece desks.
No child was obese unless they were in heart failure. We did not use the f word.we revered our grandparents. Many had suffered terribly in the war between the states.
Our health care consisted of magic stones and incantations.
If we lost a tooth, we remained toothless. Our dentist was a piece of string and a doorknob.
Asthmatics were reviled and they died young. Evil children were sent away to large brick buildings in the countryside.
My partner's two nephews are a study in contrasts. They are both in their early 30s, reared by the same parents.
The older one enjoys a wide range of food. His wife and kids are the same way. We love to visit them and have them over for dinner. The kids are adventurous eaters. They're a joy to cook for.
The younger nephew hates vegetables and eats probably no more than 5 or 6 different foods. He loves fried chicken but it has to be boneless and cut up into "fingers". He likes pizza but it can't have green peppers on it. He'll eat scrambled eggs but they have to be cooked rock-hard. He won't eat beef for "health reasons". And so on and so on. He's a fuckin' pain to be around. His wife is the same way and they're bringing up their kids to be neurotic eaters.
What went right with Nephew #1 and what went wrong with Nephew #2???
I despise those who eat differently from the way I eat. I know they will become obese, unhealthy and a drag on our society. In ancient times, those children would have been left on a hillside for the wolves. Mark my words, these food-avoidant weaklings will drag us all down.
[quote]If you feed your child a wide variety of foods, including mushrooms, onions, and all the other things that can carry into adulthood then they will eat them.
I'm a parent who not only feeds my kid but often the neighborhood kids and this is bullshit.
When kids are at the 6-12 year old stage, they are predisposed to preferring bland stuff. It's a survival mechanism. That's why they love nuggets (chicken paste), hot dogs, bologna, cheese pizza, etc.
You can't monitor your child 24/7 unless you are going to sit with them at school. They will just starve at home and negotiate with kids at lunchtime for what they want. Trust me, I know this.
A study conducted by the University of Western Sydney, New South Wales, Australia, comparing young male subjects between the ages of eight and 10 to adult males found that the adolescents had a higher anterior papillae density than the adults, making them more sensitive to sucrose or sweet flavors [source: Segovia].
Another study conducted at the University of Copenhagen involving 8,900 Danish schoolchildren discovered that there's a noticeable change in taste perception as a child develops into a teenager. Teenagers show an increased ability to distinguish flavors, together with a decreased preference for sweet flavors [source: University of Copenhagen].
Because smell, appearance and our expectations have a lot to do with the way we perceive taste, children who are tasting things, perhaps for the first time, are probably relying on their sensitive taste buds as well as their sense of smell and other visual cues to decide if a food tastes good or not. Our taste buds introduce us to a particular flavor, but the experience of eating is a packaged deal. If we think we'll like a food, there's a much better chance that we actually will.
I'm 52 and refuse to go near green peppers either -- I say good for your nephew!
As for eggplant, you need to try a good (authentic) Greek/Turkish mezze, NOT Italian-American eggplant parmigiana.
My brother recently started eating broccoli at age 47 (I loathe the stuff), and was seen recently enjoying a bowl of black bean soup. When I asked my mom if she liked the soup, she replied, "Yuk, I would go near that stuff!" (she hates beans). She says she just didn't want to fight with us as kids, so served what we'd eat.
Kids in other countries don't go bland at that age.
I did not either. At 6 my favorite foods were a spicy gumbo, a garlicky pasta sauce, and broccoli.
I have two kids. I love kids. One is a picky eater, and macaroni and cheese IS his food of choice. I have many, many opinions and thoughts on this matter, some of them potentially entertaining. But what the hell is it doing on DataLounge?
You are a weak and lazy parent R18. It is you who bring down the race. Chinese children do not negotiate for food paste. They eat their shrimp and lobster in the shells! They savor their bok choy, bitter melon and chicken claws. The Korean children revel in their Kimchee.
Only north Americans splay themselves for their children.
When I was 4, I adored a mélange of juniper berries, sandalwood ash and mosquito larvae
I have a cousin who was raised on a farm to hippie parents. When he was a toddler he was eating sweet onions raw like an apple. Why? Because that was what his organic foodie parents gave him. I know a few small children right now who don't have an option but to eat fresh fruit because the parents do not allow sugar at all and I mean none at all. Even at birthday parties he is not allowed to eat cake and he doesn't have a problem with it.
What a coincidence, R24. I STILL eat that.
r18, hotdogs, nuggets and pizza are what you consider bland food? On the contrary, making kids so used to these high salt, overly flavored processed food are what trains them to find real food bland, unappealing and even distasteful.
" WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!?!? "
When I observe the habits of other people's children I sniff and harrumph and am certain I could do a much better job at managing and guiding, but I cannot abide the presence of children, so I merely congratulate myself on my opinions and my undoubtedly superior skills.
My sister and I (late 30's now) are the only ones of our cousins who are not fat. We are the ones who were 'picky eaters' growing up that the other cousins made fun of because we didn't eat many foods. We both now are good cooks like our mom and eat a wide variety of foods. My mom said she didn't care what we ate growing up as long as we ate something. It is much better NOT to make an issue of what a kid eats or does not eat.
[quote]You are a weak and lazy parent [R18]. It is you who bring down the race.
[quote] have many, many opinions and thoughts on this matter, some of them potentially entertaining. But what the hell is it doing on DataLounge?
Are you insane?
Monitoring the behavior and food intake of other people's children is a staple conversation on a gay gossip message board. Without such expert observations, the posters on DL would fall back to discussing which psychotropic cocktails they should brew for themselves. And that gets old fast.
Do you have children, OP? Then raise them how you like. Otherwise, what business is it of yours?
R18 and R19 make good points. Children from three up to ten or twelve recognize food and don't like food they aren't familiar with -- probably evolutionary protection.
The child is going to organize his own food choices as soon as he is old enough to be out of sight. Work with his decisions not against them. "Another bag of chips? You have had one, that's enough, there is a lot of fat in them. You want some carrots? An apple?"
R16 That's just the way people turn out. Sometimes their preferences seem odd and you may never figure out the logic, if there is any.
Here is another one -- my sister has three children, boy and boy/girl twins. The children are now in their forties. The whole family are avid baseball fans and sports fans, baseball in particular. Always have been. If they are not going to games they are watching them.
All except for the boy who is a twin. He hates sports. His twin sister loves sports. How did that happen?
I was a picky eater as a kid but mainly based on how foods made me feel. I'm still picky to this day. I don't digest certain foods very well. Greasy foods make my stomach upset and it's simply no fun to have a stomach ache. That's different, though, from the kids who only eat chicken nuggets, fries, pizza, etc. I wasn't that kind of picky. My old school doctor told my mom not to make me eat things that I said bothered my stomach. He told her that despite my pickiness, I still ate a variety of fruit, vegetables, grains, and at the time I only liked lean meats.
I was actually more of a nightmare for other parents who served all the greasy stuff. I just couldn't eat it. I rarely ate at other people's houses. So, not all picky eaters are made.
Easy. He is the smart one. He realizes the silliness of paying grown men to play a game for you.
People who make a big fuss over what other children eat are junior Joan Crawfords. What you really care about is bending someone else to your will.
[quote][R18] and [R19] make good points.
Thank you. I never said I caved in and fed the kids bland stuff. I said that's what they want. And for that observation, I'm bringing down the human race. LOL. (Okay I get it, it's just some lonely queen wanting to lash out at family).
We as parents encourage the children to eat healthy, the point is, they don't all act Pollyanna and say, "Yes dad."
[quote]Work with his decisions not against them. "Another bag of chips? You have had one, that's enough, there is a lot of fat in them. You want some carrots? An apple?"
Don't you think parents have tried that? I say that to my child and get a "no thanks." and he won't eat anything. Then goes over to his friends house to play and when he comes home, guess what? He's full.
Everybody here who have no children can think they are telling parents what to do, but what they don't comprehend is that WE'VE TRIED THAT, DIDN'T WORK.
[quote]Monitoring the behavior and food intake of other people's children is a staple conversation on a gay gossip message board.
Considering the obesity epidemic in this country, and the fact that we all pay for the public health costs that are the inevitable result, I'd say we're quite justified in commenting about what other people are feeding their children, especially when it's junk. They're welcome.
My mother and father ate healthy every day of their lives. They're dead now.
R38 it didn't work because you let him go to a friend's house.
How stupid are you.
Sorry kiddo, if you won't eat an apple, no going anywhere for a few days.
An awful lot of people assume that gays don't know anything about parenting yet many have kids.
You either eat what is served, or you don't eat.
America is raising a generation of Princesses.
[quote]Sorry kiddo, if you won't eat an apple, no going anywhere for a few days
LOL. That kid will be in juvy by the time he's 11.
I'd love to see the niminy-piminy types here like r41 enforcing their little dictates.
"YOU will do as I SAY!!!"
I was a very picky eater as a child. I absolutely hated veggies. My mother made me eat them, though, except for peas. She hated peas and she thought it would be hypocritical to force me to eat them when she did not. Today, I eat all veggies - except for peas.
If a kid ends up in Juvy over an apple...you are a really bad parent.
When you are talking about 6 year olds, that's fine R43. WHen you are talking about 12 year olds, they have their own money (allowance or money earned for chores, etc.) and you can NOT monitor them 24/7. They FIGURE THIS OUT.
They also trade stuff, toys, cards, latest item that's all the rage, homework, etc. in exchange for sweets.
THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO SHORT OF PUTTING THEM IN SOME SORT OF PRISON SOCIETY.
Even armed guards in the school won't make a difference.
R47, it won't be because of the apple, it's because of the gestapo parenting.
r48, that wouldn't be the case in r41's house! She'd be on that kid 24/7 like stink on shit.
She WILL be obeyed!
Really R48 I guess my mother was a good enough parent that I actually respect her.
If she said...don't you dare...I didn't dare.
Too bad your kids have no respect for you.
I am just a picky person. No creamy sauces, no mayonnaise, no mustard, only red, clear, or orange sauces, no red meat, no cheese, no white rice/bread, no foods with the consistency of flan, and no dressing. There are additional no-nos based on healthy considerations, but I just listed the no-nos based on taste.
Stop paying them an allowance or giving them money for chores. This is not rocket science, it is good parenting 101 stuff.
The answer to childhood obesity lies with good parenting.
"If you feed your child a wide variety of foods, including mushrooms, onions, and all the other things that can carry into adulthood then they will eat them."
You are passing anecdotal evidence off as fact, which is what dataloungers do a lot.
I hate mushrooms. And, no, I'm not a picky eater. I just think mushrooms are gross. We all have our likes and dislikes - you can't force people to like something.
Some Dataloungers are so snobbish and obsessed with lecturing people. Which is funny because they hate it when people lecture them about being gay...
As a kid, I would eat just about anything fresh and healthy, because I just liked it...that included all vegetables except for brussels sprouts. Where I drew the line, however, was meat...I couldn't stand it (still can't). I could not get the thought of the poor animal out of my head when I was a kid. Since my parents expected us to clean our plates, I'd put a piece of meat in my mouth, then spit it out into my napkin when nobody was looking and then slip it to the dog, who always sat by my chair at dinner. Not only did I manage to avoid the meat, but my dog was totally devoted to me almost to the exclusion of everyone else in the family.
By ABC News
Oct 26, 2012 7:29am
Adult Picky Eater Will Only Consume Three Kinds of Food
Marla Lopez is 54 but eats like a toddler.
She has never eaten a piece of fruit or tried a green vegetable. For as long as she can remember, her daily diet has consisted primarily of three kinds of foods: milk (and ice cream); white breads (including crackers, tortillas and pancakes); and potatoes (including chips and French fries).
Sometimes she’ll also eat bacon.
READ MORE: Is Picky Eating a Medical Condition?
Lopez said her picky eating started as an infant. She would gag on her baby food. Foods that most people would consider mouth-watering - an omelet or a sandwich – are now repulsive to her. Touching spaghetti is also out of the question.
“Good Morning America” correspondent Linsey Davis went shopping with Lopez at a Fairway Market in New York City. Not much made it into the cart.
Asked whether she’d consider items in the produce aisle, Lopez said, “When I look at this, I don’t see food.”
Her favorite food is potato chips, she said, adding that they were “so salty, and fresh, and potato-y. I love them.”
Lopez, a mother herself, acknowledged that her preferred foods were limited but added, “I do love what I eat and enjoy it.”
As for whether her eating habits are more a simple desire for junk food than a real disorder, Lopez said, “I’ve heard that all my life, all my life. It’s really embarrassing.”
Nancy Zucker, the director of the Center for Eating Disorders at Duke University Medical Center in Durham, N.C., says Lopez is not alone.
“We don’t quite understand what adult picky eating is … but what we do know is that there is a real biological struggle going on that’s not all in their heads,” said Zucker, who studies picky eaters.
Lopez is often compelled to hide her eating habits when she’s at parties. She’ll say she already ate, or she’ll just carry around a drink.
Despite her carb-heavy, vegetable-free diet, Lopez says she is healthy.
“My cholesterol is 174,” she said, by itself no cause for alarm. “And I eat a bag of fries each day, and that’s my main staple.”
[quote]Really [R48] I guess my mother was a good enough parent that I actually respect her.
Did you give her the respect that she was entitled to? Did you treat her like she would be treated by any stranger on the street?
"America is raising a generation of Princesses"
Hi, I'm a childless gay man that loves to lecture people about parenting!
I hate it when people lecture me about "the gay lifestyle" but I love lecturing other people and telling them how to live their lives.
OP and the rest of you bitches are wrong, at least in some cases. There is a genetic component to the experience of taste, some people have an inborn tendency to dislike certain foods, which can mean a miserable existence of fearing anything unfamiliar.
Which isn't to say that bad parenting can't lead to insane pickiness, but not all pickiness is the result of bad parenting.
[quote] Which is funny because they hate it when people lecture them about being gay...
If you think there's something wrong with being gay, that needs to be lectured about, you don't belong here
My nephew was a picky eater. But it was primarily because he didn't care about eating. His parents and older sister are not like him at all.
When he was two or three his favorites foods were strawberries and some other equally unprocessed food. Now that he is 13 he eats most things, but not very much of anything.
He was just at my house during the holidays and ate anything I made. But he wasn't very interested in any of it.
Although he has outgrown his pickiness, I doubt he will ever care that much about food.
Sometimes it is just who they are, not how they were raised.
R56 'it's not all in their head' means...
It is mostly in their head but we are trying to take these loons seriously so we can get a grant to study them.
I grew up in the 70s, I ate everything my mom made, she made the same things as my aunts and grandma and most of my friends' mothers cooked. It wasn't until I got to college that I was exposed to a lot of different food - some I liked, some I didn't. I decided it wouldn't kill me to try something, so I tried everything. Again, some I liked, some I didn't.
That approach served me very well in my career. Ever since I started working, I've had to attend a lot of luncheons and events that served things I'd never order on my own. I also hate mushrooms, but choke them down several times a year because that's what I am served.
I took a 25-year old colleague to a business lunch who made such a production of scraping off the things she didn't like and then just pushing the food around on the plate it was embarassing. I felt like I brought a 4 year old along. I told her next time just order a vegetarian option -- they always have one -- and not to embarass herself like that again.
You have to start early. We never bought baby food except for the banana cereal (I forget what it was called). As soon as they could eat,we chopped up their food very small. They ate what we ate. There isn't much I won't eat and thus, they eat almost everything, include organ meats. They will try about anything, including kangaroo.
I don't ask much from you GURL!
[quote]No child was obese unless they were in heart failure.
This line and a mouthful of coffee don't mix well, although I was already laughing some from the bit about the gf letting her child starve to death as a lesson to other children.
You are not getting up from this table until you have finished that meat.
Growing up my parents were pretty good about what we had to eat. From a very young age we had a lot of differant foods. My gran from Norway cooked, my mom from Germany cooked, my dad would make typical American foods on the weekends. We never had to eat a full serving of anything but we did have to taste it. A lot of things that didn't look good ended up tastinng pretty good. My parents never realy forced us to eat any certain foods, tho my mom was sure if I tasted enough liver I'd end up loving it as much as she did, never happened, and I went to bed hungry on nights she cooked liver. My family was pretty good about sweet stuff. My brother was alergic to chocolate so there was never any candy arround the house. Occasionaly there were sweets in the house(usualy cookies and that around the holidays) but it was a rare thing. We only had soda during holidays.
By the time we were 8-10 yrs old my brother and I had very differant ideas about what was 'good' food. I would eat anything but loved fresh vegetables and fruit, my plate was usualy 3/4 fruit and vegetables and the smallest bit of meat. My brother hated everything and found a way to blackmail mom into making fish sticks for him for breakfast for about 10 years. The only vegatable he would eat was corn. He actualy asked 'Santa' to bring him his own pound of bacon at x-mas one year. He made sure that no one ate any of it because he would count how many pieces of bacon were in the package every time bacon was cooked in the house.
Now my brother weighs close to 300 lbs and his son and daughter turn their nose up at anything differant from what they have at home, which seems to be a very small list of food.They eat hot dogs, chicken fingers, pizza etc. oh and of course fishsticks. They don't drink soda but they drink a lot of fake juice box crap.
My weight is pretty much normal, I could stand to loose a little bit of weight. My daughter eats pretty good for a pre-teen. She'll pick a bowl of pho over McDonalds any day, my niece and nephew won't even consider eating Vienamese food, and seem scared of the idea of it. She eats pizza, but usualy will make her own from pitta bread and pesto. We use to drink quite a bit of soda but since the whole HFCS thing we've cut way back. Maybe one or two a week, and I'm always looking for the coke in bottles made with cane sugar. I never tried to keep her totaly away from junk food, but made her understand that it wasn't something that could be a rgular part of our diet. I think it helps that my bf is an amazing cook and loves the same foods I do.
I don't know where that puts us in the made vs. not born argument.
As a matter of fact I do have a child. She's 11. A picky eater until nine or so, but she is coming out of it. What worked for us is not to turn every eating choice into a drama.
If she isn't hungry at meal time because she had something really bad for her an hour earlier, a candy bar and an ice cream cone, then she isn't hungry and she eats later.
Why is your child going someplace to play when you haven't checked out what he is going to eat over there? When we have play dates, parents talk to each other before feeding the child.
If the friend can raid the refrigerator to get bad stuff for himself and our daughter, then there is not enough supervision in general for my child to visit.
If the child is old enough to go out on his own and eat junk food, then the time to worry about diet is pretty much over. Then you worry about drugs, alcohol, and safe sex.
Flexibility is the key. This too shall pass.
[quote]If you think there's something wrong with being gay, that needs to be lectured about, you don't belong here
Well, I don't think that there is anything wrong with being gay (of course!) but I am not sure that being a picky eater is broadly viewed as a fatal flaw.
I think the broader issue here is how asinine it is for one to speak about a topic that one knows nothing about.
If you haven't had to raise a child, with all of the complexity, then your opinion really is relevant.
If you think it is, then you are a self-absorbed queen.
Think of this next time someone comments inappropriately on your bias towards wearing age-inappropriate clothes, your effeminate persona, your Grindr account, etc. Your urge to tell them to MYOFB is comparable to the issue here
Play dates? At 11? That's helicopter parenting.
Our child will call on the phone after school "I'm at so and so's house, will be home later".
[quote]If the friend can raid the refrigerator to get bad stuff for himself and our daughter, then there is not enough supervision in general for my child to visit.
At what age will you trust your child to look after himself/herself? 18? Some of us parents work and the child HAS to be home unsupervised. I'm not talking a 6 year old, we are talking practically teenagers. In two years, your child will be a teenager, you know.
It's interesting to read about how taste buds literally change as you age. I remember when I was a kid, I was drinking a Dr. Pepper everyday for lunch and after school- on up until high-school (this was before the coffee fad, thank god.)
In college, I up and quit. I just didn't like the saccharine sweet taste anymore. Now I have a soda maybe once every 6 months. When I do have one I consider it a dessert, not a drink.
Now I love to cook and if there's a food I don't like at first I will try it a variety of ways just because I don't like to be limited in my life experiences. It's a personal thing.
I have to be careful not to judge people for not liking mushrooms and stuff. I forget that some of this is just hard-wired genetics.
What parent analyzes the food content of a friends house of someone who's practically a teenager? OMG.
Suppose they have a can of frosting, gay dad?
I was a picky eater as a kid. I grew up in the 60s and my mother would have none of it. We had battles over my refusing to eat certain stuff.
Turns out I'm lactose intolerant and a lot of my refusing was based on that.
Once I refused to eat a bowl of soup. She told me not to get up from the table until I ate it. I sat there for several hours and when I got up she grabbed then then cold bowl of soup and chased me the table screaming at me and dumped it over my head.
I still have weird issues around food and I'm sure most of them are based on the f'd up way my parents dealt with me and my stupid issues.
R52 sounds tedious. I don't think I could even be friends with R52.
My brother's dog - that he found in the woods - is a picky eater. He didn't learn it; he's just like that.
I used to be a picky eater at home because my mother's food sucked. But out? NEVER.
And so forth.
I don't think I could be friends with some queen who uses the word "tedious" in casual conversation.
And yet R52 remains tedious in spite of your bizarre objection to the word.
Another mushroom hater here! One of the worst moments of my life was when my then boss invited me to lunch at her house and it was beef stroganoff stuffed with huge mushroom caps. Yes, I choked a few down but all my family and friends know I won't touch mushrooms and frankly, I do not see the point of eating something I hate just to please others.
As for kids, I don't see the point in forcing them to eat things they hate, either. As a kid I hated veggies (except potatoes and corn, of course) and now I am a vegetarian.
Why the hostility?
You think children can't pick up on that? You think your attitudes don't affect their eating choices: "Screw this, I am going to eat what I want to eat. Dad and mom have an attitude and they can shove it."
You bet I know where she is all the time. You don't run around on your own at eleven, not in NYC you don't.
"She hated peas and she thought it would be hypocritical to force me to eat them when she did not."
That's why as a kid I was never exposed to lima beans (which my mom hates, and I hate, too), Spam (my dad hates it), and liver, (my folks both hate it, but I eat it now).
R74, my parents weren't as extreme as your mom, but they were very rigid about everything, including food.
That affected me in three ways. First, I'm flexible to a fault (about food & otherwise). Second, I've always hated being around my parents & now limit our contact severely. Third, I've never had any desire to be a parent.
I expect I might well have turned out quite differently (maybe even almost normal) if they'd just loosened up a bit.
It never entered our little heads that,under my parents roof,"to be a picky eater" was even an option. We ate what was put before us because food wasn't a matter of negotiation between us children and my parents.
My parents allowed treats, too. Cake and ice cream and candy were mixed in with vegetables and fruit and meat. Basically you're 60s and 70s working class family diet.
And I call bullshit on r70. I don't have children. I am, however the child of good parents and, therefore,I know poor parenting when I see it.
r63, I enjoyed reading your post.
I left my kid at home and he nearly blew. Thank God for Tootie.
[quote]I am just a picky person. No creamy sauces, no mayonnaise, no mustard, only red, clear, or orange sauces, no red meat, no cheese, no white rice/bread, no foods with the consistency of flan, and no dressing. There are additional no-nos based on healthy considerations, but I just listed the no-nos based on taste.
It must be HELL to be you or anywhere near you.
[quote]You bet I know where she is all the time. You don't run around on your own at eleven, not in NYC you don't.
Where did you get 11? Is that when you all eat dinner?
I know where my child is all the time too. I'm grateful for the phone calls where he lets me know. He's a responsible kid, he eats reasonably well. I'm a good parent. My comments are mostly directed at people on this thread who assume that children will simply do what they are told or else. My experience is that yes, they will do that in front of you but don't think they are Pollyannas when they aren't in front of you. Kids who grow up in the strictest households always rebel. The conservative 50's yielded the 60's hippies.
Not everything is so cut and dried.
18= brain dead fraucunt
Oh the irony, R3!
"I CAN SHOVE A WHOLE MIDGET UP MY FRAUHOLE"
That's really mean...but hilarious!
In addition to R52's other sins, he has "no-nos".
Punch & delete indeed.
My parents were exactly right about foods. They passes their right minded thinking about all things nutritious right on to me, and for that I am grateful.
I was never allowed to eat sweet and sticky marshmallow treats. Particulary those which made use of Rice Krispies. Breakfasts were hearty and healthful, so our day would start out right. No donuts, no pop tarts, no French toasts, no pancakes, no waffles (Belgian or otherwise).
We might have fruit; or perhaps the eggs of a fowl. Slaughtered animals were used for sausage materials, and these sausages made us strong and fit for a day's work. We drank chicory coffee from a percolator. Those who did not eat a wholesome, hearty breakfast were frail, languid types who saw swooned easily and made the rest of us snicker at their laughable feints.
Sweet-tasting comestibles were for honeybees. Our parents were raising men. Men and the females who would raise the children of the men. The fingers of chickens would not ever be served to us, nor would warmed canines. Sheep, beef, the loins of pork and the firm root vegetables of the earth were our nourishment.
I chuckle at the wan offspring of pampered and pampering parents. Delicate. Drooping. Debilitated. This is our future.
I salute all of you who refuse to ignore those degenerate parents who allow their children to mewl and puke at the fine brawny meats, wholesome grains and roots our earth provides for us. Eat hearty, drink well and remember our place here on earth us to subjugate the weak, persecute the permissive and crack our whips long and loud across the earth.
[quote] Sometimes it is just who they are, not how they were raised.
You must ever allow anyone to be who they are.
You will have vegans, peanut shunners, fibromyalgic asthmatics, arthritic lesbians, caftan wearers, sweets-guzzling, plain white rice eating, cigar and cigarette smoking, chain restaurant visiting Jews, blacks and Asians. And aspartame quaffers.
It must not be allowed. The rest of us have to ay for these drains on society.
Oh, and my pussy stinks.
Mary at R93! Prithee pulleth thy sconce from betwixt thy buttocks.
interesting. my sister has a 9 month old baby and she's trying to raise her TOTALLY healthy so that she won't develop any sort of food issues when she grows up. The baby is on a strictly vegan diet and this is supplemented with lots of fiber and flak seed oil, apparently she poos 5 times a day! She is also given only fat free and carb-free milk, despite what her doctor told her. And she does this thing where she gives the baby pickle juice baths every few weeks. Has anybody ever heard of this?
you're sister is a helicopter parentbot frau cunt.
Yes R97. It is the way children are supposed to be raised. Where have u been?
Are ANY of you parents???
I HAD to eat what my mother cooked, there was no choice. Some parents let their kids push them around. If a kid if over 4, they must eat what's put in front of them!
I would probably kill a child who would not eat the food I gave it
Again, if you are not a picky eater, it's not due to your own sterling character or the wisdom of your parents. There is a genetic component to picky eating that is explained for you at R92.
And R97, vegan diets are DANGEROUSLY UNHEALTHY for small children, they're deficient in Vit. B12, iron, and protien at the very least. Children have gotten seriously sick from vegan diets, CPS has been called in some of the worst cases. And giving a child a dangerously restricted diet is hardly the way to keep it from ever developing "food issues".
I believe everything at r92. I guess there is a gene for all the food quirks people have. But certain kids will not eat foods, especially meats, if they are not prepared in a certain way. That is what I call being too picky, like my nephew. If you eat chicken fried, you can eat it baked. His sister will eat anything so I know its not genetics!
Being an adult picky eater is miserable, it's limiting and embarassing and I've actually tried to overcome it. I've gone back and tasted most of the things I loathed as a child, and it turns out that I like some now that I've grown up.
However, there are certain flavors that most people like, and that even now my taste buds find foul. And as these flavors tend to carry over entire families of fruits and vegetables (peppers, squash, melons), and texture and cooking methods don't affect my reaction to these flavors, I think it's biological. Some peple find certain chemicals bitter while others can't taste them at all, I think I have a reaction to certain flavor chemicals that I can't help.
Moderately picky eater
[quote]And she does this thing where she gives the baby pickle juice baths every few weeks.
Is she washing her kid or making sauerkraut? What is the picklejuice supposed to accomplish?
Pickle juice is vinegar!
Brava to R97's sister. She is a smart, caring mother.
R97's sister needs to have her child taken away.
r108, troll-dar is not your friend.
(R108) is hilarious. His/her posts made me cackle with glee
OP, they actually might not be, but frankly, I can't stand them all, I hope they all rot in Hell.
We had a wide variety of healthy foods while growing up, but I could never deal with brussel sprouts. Didn't like the texture, the flavor, nor the smell. I wasn't too thrilled about spinach but ate a few bites when we had it. Today, I love spinach.
My work took me to a lot of foreign countries and I enjoyed trying the food. Though, in West African nations we ate our own food, nothing that was sold there, at the advice of our medical people. One guy in our group ate an innocent looking ham sandwich at a hotel bar. Two weeks later when he was up and around again, he had lost about 30 lbs. and looked like death warmed over.
I'd like to go back to Istanbul, just for the wonderful melons.
MOMMIES need to give it all a rest. fuck off or be F&F'ed
Agreed R116. ALL the MOMMIES on this thread need to go haunt some MOMMIE site.
But that is not wehat you meant. F&F on you
what on earth are to talking about r117. you're one of them?
Wait a second now. All I agreed to eat as a kid was carrot, broccoli, and chilled purple grapes. I was definitely a "picky eater" but no one told me to reject what I rejected.
It's 99% male children who have food issues. It's why you see pale, spindly, short male children, but not female children like this. Females might be picky here and there, but it's male children who refuse to eat anything but a few food items.
Just a few among various friends and family:
A boy who will eat nothing but bagel bites, hot dogs, frozen waffles (not frozen pancakes) and miso soup.
A boy who will eat nothing that is not white. His staples are plain rice, plain pasta, rice crispies and milk, white bread, plain potatoes, French fries (the insides are white), chicken. Vanilla ice cream
A boy whose only vegetable is corn. He eats chicken. No beef, no fish, no salads, no fruits. No gravies, no condiments (ketchup, salt, pepper, mustard, butter). No sauces (spaghetti, chocolate, savory, sweet). No whipped cream, no sprinkles, no cream cheese, no frostings. All food must be bland, flavorless and unadorned.
Girls may go, "Ugh, I hate onions!" or "How can you eat xxxx, it's so gross!" but they generally do not limit themselves to less than 10 foods, or only foods of a certain color. That's a boy thing.
Don't most everyone's tastes change over the years? As a child, I didn't like oatmeal, now I love it topped with berries or peaches. I had to be coaxed to eat spinich but now I love it.
"Girls may go, "Ugh, I hate onions!" or "How can you eat xxxx, it's so gross!" but they generally do not limit themselves to less than 10 foods, or only foods of a certain color. That's a boy thing. "
I knew a girl who refused to eat anything but peanut butter sandwiches for months, but it was a comparatively short-term thing.
Does anyone know a female who's limited herself to ten food items or less, for a period of years?
I am intrigued
My three year old nephew has tried the refusing to eat routine for at least a year. His mom isn't having it; he doesn't get dessert or other privileges if he does not eat his lunch or dinner. If he demands dessert or throws a fit, he gets sent to time out in a bedroom, which he hates. He doesn't have to clean his plate and he can pick throuh mushrooms etc., but there is none of this catering to his whims bullshit.
I am always surprised when I hear or read of parents who shrug and give in to their kids' demands like this, as if they the parents are powerless. "He only eats fish sticks - I don't want him to starve!"
r97, your sister is brining her grass fed veal. I wouldn't plan at eating at her house ever again.
R97, that just sounds like a recipe for food issues.
oh the irony!
white food is usually bad for you.
When my very young nephew (he was 6 or 7) was left with his great Aunt in Paris while his parents trekked round Europe he tried to have food issues.
He told her...I only like then rattled off a limited list of food he would eat.
She responded.."I don't care what you like, I serve what I serve, you may eat it or starve to death. When we go to a restaurant you may have a choice."
After two weeks his food issues were over.
No white foods. They are bad for you and gross.
There's a programme aired in the UK which focuses on this very issue among adults - "Freaky Eaters".
Some of the people featured (seems to be equally split between men & women btw) won't eat more than 3-6 different foods and most seem to gag over vegetables and fruit citing the texture as much as the taste.
Incidentally, I never realised how many people were mushroom-phobic until I read this thread. I bloody love them and I also eat far more veggies now than I did as a kid. My brother-in-law detests mushrooms with a passion, but then he hardly eats any veg whatsoever. His sister is a vegan and his brother is a vegetarian - go figure!
No picky eaters in my family. If you said you didn't like something either my mom or my dad would say "good, more for us" and proceed to eat the food you objected to. Nothing more was said. There was no payoff for me.
I can't imagine why anyone would willingly eat a mushroom. Seriously. Between the vile texture, the vile smell, and the vile taste... and the knowledge that they're grown in damp dark caves on horse shit...
With so many other options around, why in the hell would any sane person willingly choose mushrooms? Do you also like stabbing yourself in the face with your fork?
R16, I don’t like green peppers on pizza either, because they’re uncooked. Peppers on pizza shouldn’t crunch. I like them raw anywhere else (crudités, guacamole), where they should be served raw, but they don't belong on an otherwise cooked dish like pizza.
R43, America has been raising generationS of princesses since 1946.
I don't eat some things, but I don't think of myself as a picky eater. I read a lot about food, and I recently found out that people who don’t like the things I don’t like are called supertasters.
Those things include Brussels sprouts, cabbage (except in cole slaw; NEVER cooked), kale, coffee, soy anything, and carbonated drinks, esp. quinine water. Additionally, I like chilis, but not truly hot ones, and only Kalamata olives, in small amounts mixed in with other things (salad, pizza).
There are so many things I do like, though, that avoiding the foods I dislike has never been an issue.
"I HAD to eat what my mother cooked, there was no choice. "
So did I, and it didn't change my food dislikes, it just made me resent my parents. I wasn't claiming things tasted nasty as part of some power play, some things just taste disgusting to me and still do. But my parents insisted that I choke down a serving of everything on the table, even if I had to sit at the table for hours before I could force it down.
I still don't get it, unless it was another manifestation of my mother's narcissistic tendencies. It's like she didn't believe her children could have tastes different from her own, she seemed to think I was claiming to dislike perfectly good food to annoy her. Honestly, being forced to eat that stuff only solidified my hatred of certain foods.
R134, I think parents like yours should be shot, making you sit at the table for hours until you eat something you hate. Sometimes I get mad at my parents, but I thank God they weren't psychopaths like your mother.
Pissy DLers are made, not born.
I didn't like spinach until a couple of years ago.
I despise cheese. hate the spell of it.
Sorry, but if you're not a parent, you have no business posting on this thread. Likewise, if you're the parent of one easy baby who ate what you put in front of them. What is it about food issues that makes people so SMUG? If you knew the struggles of feeding a picky, and yes, autistic eater, you would ease up just a bit.
"Picky eaters are made, not born"
A half truth. Some kids really are born more choosy or fussy and some are more easy-going and agreeable. And this applies to more than just food stuffs.
Could you imagine if all the DLers who comment on parenting were actually parents?
In 15 years there would be a new generation of mincing prisspots.
I fought and fought and fought to eat what I wanted: spaghetti without sauce and no food with anything approaching a vegetable. I wasn't quite as weird as the child R121, but it was close. I grew up in a household where horrors such as brains and lobster and capers made frequent appearances on the dinner table.
Now I'm the most adventurous eater of anyone I know. Largely, I think, because I didn't want anyone to know that I had such babyish tastes.
Children who are picky eaters may grow out of it, but an adult who is a picky eater is boring.
Yes, R141. But they would be a generation of wonderfully clean eaters!
I disagree with this. I was a definite picky eater when I was a child, and my parents tried extremely hard to break me of it. Once when I was seven, my mother made meat loaf, and I told her that I was not going to eat it. I said fine, and I didn't eat anything for four days.
No creamy sauces. All sauces must be clear (vinegar), orange (buffalo wings), or red (marinara). I hate the taste of cream sauces, and they are very unhealthy and fattening.
r121, it's also an autistic thing. And more boys than girls have autism.
R144 you could not have been picky at 7 unless your parents began indulging you at 2.
Don't eat white foods. They are bad for you.
R121, I had a niece who during her toddle/post-toddler years would only eat mac-n-cheese and plain cheese pizza. She's also eat peanut-butter and jelly sandwiches, but ONLY on white bread with crusts cut off, and ONLY welches grape jelly and ONLY smooth peanut butter.
Trying to get her to eat or even try anything else was an invitation to tantrum. It lasted a few years actually... I'm not sure how she survived, to be honest.
Picky eaters are attention whores.
That wouldn't have lasted more than a couple of days or weeks, R149, if her parents hadn't indulged her. Let her go without eating and she will give up and eat; and, if she gets punished for the tantrums, they will end rather quickly.
Indulge her by catering to her whims and feeding her something else is rewarding her for bad behaviour. That is what creates entitled brats.
My parents did that to me, r151, and it didn't make any difference. The only thing that changed my tastes was time.
My little niece is 3. She eats kale, salmon, broccoli, cauliflower, roasted chicken, tamales, spicy salsas and moles, quinoa, brown rice, unsweetened yogurt, pungent cheeses, etc. Her favorite treats are baby tomatoes! She pops them in her mouth like candy. Her mac and cheese is whole wheat pasta with goat cheese. It is an amazing thing to watch her eat.
Of note, she has never eaten a chicken nugget, hot dog, processed cheese food, or any sort of fast food. She eats at the table with my sister and husband, with a real, non plastic fork and spoon, on a real, non plastic plate. She enjoys the experience of the meal. She is involved with the meal rather than sequestered off, eating some special kid food on some psychotically colorful plastic plate. She drinks from a glass or a porcelain tea cup. When she does eat junk, it is at least good junk. There's a difference between eating a Twinkie and eating a homemade cupcake. There's a difference between eating sliced wonder bread and going to the bakery and getting a fresh baguette. There's a difference between eating at Pizza Hut and going to local pizza place.
Of course, other mothers think my sister is a snob and make snide comments. I think they just feel bad and are lazy, feeding their kids shit because 1. It's easy and 2. They want to eat bullshit too.
I only eat pickled eggs and green beans.
I don't eat any creamy sauces or dressings. Partly because of fitness, partly because they taste gross.
I have heard of someone who only eats orange food.
I do not eat any white or creamy sauces. Yuck.
no white foods!
R18, try cooking real food for a change. All that boxed crap with salt and sugar is bad for them. If you raise them with real food, they'll eat it and like it.
The only vegetables I eat are whatever was in the Swanson's TV dinners back in the 60s. Except for the succotash.
You deserve to starve
R14 has it exactly right.
op= Miss Crawford
[quote]"Girls ... generally do not limit themselves to less than 10 foods, or only foods of a certain color. That's a boy thing. "
I know someone whose granddaughter has refused to eat anything green her whole life. She's in college now, where she's a champion athlete.
I'm going to homeschool any kids I might someday have. Since they won't be exposed to school lunches or snacks, I'll have complete control of what they eat. Don't want to eat lentils and rice? Baked sweet potatoes? Apple slices? Well, go hungry then. Because I'm not going to give them choices.
Parents were kids once, too - presumably with food preferences. And most likely they still have food preferences. So I think it's ridiculous to force any child to eat a food that just grosses them out. In fact, I think it's abusive. The world won't end if a kid won't eat mushrooms or broccoli or anything else.
R166 I hope social services takes your children away from you.
There is evidence that this is to some degree a neurological condition. In that case it would certainly be abusive if not physically harmful to force food on a child.
And children *will* starve themselves rather than eat what does not register to their taste buds as food.
R166, I look forward to your children's teenage years.
R166 = uber Frau from hell.
I don't care what any of you say. I'm a man, not a Frau and this is going to be Tiger Mom parenting which our country desperately needs.
I was a picky eater and my parents used to make me sit at the table for hours to finish my food. It didn't help. I finally outgrew it and now as an adult eat a wide variety of food.
I was and am lactose intolerant, and my mom still forced me to drink skim milk--the smelliest and grossest-tasting of all milks. It would get warm from her pouring it and setting it out early. Constant GI pain.
I've never ONCE seen her take a sip of milk herself.
It was the 90s, but she was on 1950s housewife autopilot or something. "You will drink your milk because it is good for you and the only way you'll get calcium!" I'd rather die from complications of calcium deficiency.
Anyway, there was a time when I could only eat cold baked potato without gagging. Now I can do just about anything but dairy.
I have a SO whom I am considering leaving because of his food issues. He only eats pizza, chicken fingers, and steak (and french fries). If he attempts to eat fruit or any kind of vegetable he will actually vomit. His health is deteriorating and I can't stand it anymore. He has seen a therapist to no avail. Any advice for me DL?
My cousin would not let her son anywhere near fast food. He was loving things like Brussels sprouts, asparagus, barbecue, stir-fry, etc. etc. by the time he was 2. He's the least picky eater kid I've ever known.
CPS needs to be alerted over wholesome, healthy legumes, grains, and fresh fruit? Will they be placated if I promise to serve processed 'chicken' nuggets, macaroni and cheese and sweetened kiddie cereals? Do I need to promise them I'll shop in bulk at Walmart instead of farm stands and let my kids get obese like yours will?
While r166 sounds a bit strident, I agree with the premise.
Other than the rice cereal with bananas for breakfast, our sons ate what we ate. We pureed or chopped our food very finely and they ate that. Baby food is a scam. You want pureed carrots? Boil some fresh carrots and mash them. Did you every try baby food? It tastes like wallpaper paste.
My sons are now 28 and 26 and eat everything and even better, try all cuisines and kinds of food.
[quote]Picky eaters are made, not born
You say that as though it were a bad thing.
I don't mind picky eaters. It's only impolite eaters that bother me, the ones who insist upon making their pickiness the problem of everyone around them, all the time.
R166, I'm not objecting to your admittedly healthy taste in foods, I'm put off by your bizarre enthusiasm for complete control over other people.
Home schooling does not give you complete control over children's minds, any more than forbidding them any outside foods will control their tastes. No matter how hard you try your children will be themselves rather than the people you want them to be, and you're going to make them angry and resentful with your control freak parenting.
[quote]It never entered our little heads that,under my parents roof,"to be a picky eater" was even an option. We ate what was put before us because food wasn't a matter of negotiation between us children and my parents.
Exactly. We had the option to eat what was served or not but making a scene about it was simply not happening. We were not forced to eat anything or punished for not eating. My mother used to say "This is not a restaurant" and we respected that.
There were no fast food places in our town so Macdonald's was an infrequent treat. Sweets, chips and soda were in the house and it was no big deal. We simply weren't allowed to eat/drink them all the time or to excess.
There were no arguments or tantrums about food - ever. Actually, there weren't arguments or tantrums about much of anything, at least not more than once in a great while. The adults were in control at our house. There wasn't any question about that.
My siblings and I grew up to be healthy, educated, active and successful people. We don't have any eating disorders, nor do our children. None of us view our (now deceased) parents as over-controlling food Nazis or unreasonable people.
I got dna testing through 23andme.com recently. I found out that I have the bitter taste receptor gene. Bitter foods taste worse to me than they do to those who don't have the gene. You can judge all you want and call me a picky eater, but there's a physiological reason why I won't eat certain foods.
Altho I am most likely hallucinating, I believe I read that people have taste buds that favor either sweet or savory. And little kiddies taste buds are probably trying to identify what they like. I don't like sweet things, but give me some garlic, salt and some herbs and I'm happy. In fact, I have a salt lick in my back yard and am always fighting the deer off.
I was an extremely picky eater as a child. Anything green? No, I don't think so. Lima beans and peas almost made me vomit. Now I can't get enough of them. Most of the things I hated as a kid I now love. There are still a few things I'm not fond of. Regular mushrooms. Shitake, Chanterelle etc I like. Something about the taste of regular mushrooms puts me off me oats. Okra. Ick. Eggplant, no not going there.
But I will say, if you go to a dinner party where the meal is okra, regular mushrooms and eggplant you put on your big girl panties and finish your plate. And you say "my compliments to the chef" and mean it.
OP, go back to your insistence that a two-year-old will keep going after what you put in his mouth.
R183, if I went to a dinner featuring foods I am ordinarily unable to choke down, I simply wouldn't eat them. Being a dinner guest doesn't suddenly make loathed foods palatable, and a good host does not and should not take the place of your mother forcing you to sit there until you eat everything on your place whether you like it or not. That's bullshit. It's not your fault if you dislike what is being served, and you shouldn't feel obliged to pretend that you do, especially when it's usually obvious from involuntary facial expressions that you find what you are eating to be distasteful.
There is nothing "big girl panties-ish" about it. The mere sight of some foods makes me lose my appetite, and to actually put them in my mouth makes me gag. It's not just the taste - it's the texture as well. I certainly don't expect my hosts to run their dinner menus past me for approval; by the same token, If they do serve a dish I greatly dislike, I don't expect them to consider me ill-mannered for not eating it. Taste is a very subjective thing.
Miss Manners once addressed the issue of refusing food at dinner parties.
She said that the more expensive the dish, the more socially acceptable it is to refuse it. If you don't like the bean stew it's okay to eat some and push the rest around so it looks like you ate more than you did, but it'd be wrong to do the same to lobster tails.
But no matter what you actually think of the food, you thank the hosts convincingly, and I am looking at you R186.
I just met someone who doesn't like tomatoes. Wow
Picky eaters can be either born or made, and both born AND made.
But of course some Dataloungers insist that it's all down to bad mothers.
I don't like white foods.
If you raise a child on a diet of unqualified approval, it only encourages her to interrupt your lovely story about the effusive compliments you received from town gentlemen in your youth, when the Clairol bleach is so-called "burning" her scalp.