Alright try to be honest bitches. If a stranger met you taking into account your normal looks, voice and mannerisms how masculine or feminine do you come across? Curious how most posters see themselves. Gay or primarily gay men only of course
I am masculine. I once held a conversation with someone in a gay male strip club and he couldn't believe that I was gay. I have a feminine-acting gay friend, and even he tells me that if he didn't know any better, he'd assume I was straight.
Butch, except for the pinky ring and lisp....
Eldergays will enter with their antediluvian hang-ups in 3... 2...
Poll got cut off trying to do it on my phone, the middle option said a good gaydar wouldn't be shocked and the next one said a good gaydar might assume.
I try to butch it up, but the caftans and earrings always give me away.
The poll is worthless. If I had a dollar for every guy who describes himself as masculine who has many mannerisms traditionally thought of as gay and/or feminine, I'd be part of the 1 percent.
I think men, gay or straight, average out in the middle and gaydar helps us find sexual partners rather than perceptions of masculinity (or lack of). Gays skew from feminine to masculine just as much as straights do. I was the quarterback of my high school football team, for example.
I'm a Kinsey ~2 woman who comes across as gender-neutral and/or eccentric, by many accounts.
I have feminine-style long hair, and basically just wear fitted tees with slim-fit jeans and Converse or canvas shoes. That's actually been my style since I was old enough to dress myself. However: I rock it classier and keep it cleaner than Kristen Stewart, if I do say so myself.
I have both "girlish" and "boyish" hobbies and interests. I'm deadpan and sarcastic, but not cold or quite what most would consider "butch."
This is DL; anything other than the last option is a lie.
Are you Daria?
I do agree with R6, gay men tend to see themselves as less stereotypically gay than they actually are. Still will be interesting to see how the voting turns out though, it does at least show what posters think, even if it ain't the truth.
Straight people assume I'm straight and it doesn't take long for other gays to figure out I'm gay. I think that makes me in the middle.
Either way, depending on my clothes
If you're talking to me, R7, people have told me I remind them of Daria since the show came out.
[quote] I was the quarterback of my high school football team, for example.
That was 50 years ago darling.
A loaded ( with homophobia) and loathsome question.
How so r18, there isn't supposed to be any judgement in the poll, just asking people about how they come across.
Try 5, r17.
I am masculin. Most men I know are pretty masculin looking. The big exception I find are techno geeks/star wars nerds. Most (not all) seem to fit the stereotype you see in movies.
No it isn't, R18. Lots of gay men have feminine ways. To shun or try and deny that fact is homophobic, to be honest.
By the time that I started to school at age 6, I had been facing ridicule from my family for being a "little sissy boy", and I had started trying to overcome that, because it is just not the persona that I want to project. Nobody at school ever teased me or bullied me or said anything about me being a "sissy", so I think that I put that behind me. I am happy for everybody else to just be like they are, but I dislike what was called "camping it up" when I was young, and I am glad that it went out of style. The put-on of phoney masculinity can be just as much a turn off to me as the "camping it up". And the antagonism toward the less masculine is just uncalled for. I just live my own life my own way, and everyone else should do the same.
There are some things that many gay men consider to be still masculine that no one else things is masculine, such as wearing leather, men who look like Zak Speaks, bears, wearing jockstraps when not playing sports, and wearing speedos. Therefore, this question might have a different perspective if asked with mainstream perspectives of what is masculine.
r12, are we allowed to think we're totally comfortable with our feminine side, but people in general still don't seem to pick up on it? I mean I suppose I could make it more obvious by wearing makeup and having a feminine hairstyle and clothes, instead it's more about all my interests being way more feminine than masculine. I feel like a failed flamer, I might've been a drag queen except I'd make an ugly one. But I'm totally accepting of myself as a femme, there's nothing wrong with being gay or femme, and I don't care who knows or what they think of it.
Interesting though maybe not surprising that self-described flamers are the smallest number so far. I know a far amount of gay dudes who do flame and I agree with you R23, there is nothing wrong with that if they are just being who they are.
I used to be soft butch (because it was easy), but since turning 40, I am oh so feminine. Because I look better. I'm happy.
By looks, not all that "gay" - I dress in a sort of preppy dull. On the other hand, I tend to assume that guys who look like me (without wedding rings) are probably older gay guys.
most people know I'm gay simply because I tell them or don't shy from talking about gay "lifestyle" issues. I find though that I'm much tougher and less emotional than most other gays in my community.
Pretty masculine; the only people that pick up on it do it after I express interest in topics not considered hetero territory (i.e. fashion, female/minority/homosexual representation in video games and etc).
Oh my, no one would ever guess I was gay. Can we meet for brunch?
R6 has the definitive response on this thread, including Miss R7, our high school football quarterback.
I really doubt straights "skew" as much as gays.
Otherwise there would be no basis for gaydar.
Not this again. Why are you guys so obsessed with being "masculine" or "feminine"? Just be yourself.
No, that's gaydar period, R35.
No. Only to a straight person like you R37
"Gays skew from feminine to masculine just as much as straights do."
Uh, no they don't.
i am a bi curious straight guy so i say masculine of course. I say i could end being mostly straight because only feminine people turn me on. No WAY IN HELL a masculine person turns me on because i don't find it attractive and i like to be the man in a relationship, yes that is my ego.
So if this poll is correct, a lot of you gays can MAYBE turn me on.
if there is someone feminine out here, say something dirty for me
i am 21 BTW
for the person who said gays skew from feminine to masculine like straight men, I REALLY don't think so since i am a lot more on the straight side of the spectrum, but i am don't call myself a fully hetero. Yes, we exist.
Yes they do R39.
The difference is straight guys have a more tilted average toward a more stereotypically masculine personality and gay guys are a tilted average to a slightly more feminine personality.
However, both gays and straights can and do run the gamut. You should get out more.
No they don't and i could say that as a person who is mostly straight. You are right that gay men lean toward on the feminine side and straight guys heavily lean on the masculine side
Gurrrl nobody can ever tell I'm gay, bro!
I notice it changes from time to time and day to day.
There are situations where I think what I'm doing/saying is perfectly masculine and gender-normative, but then someone will snicker that it's super-queeny. And then I'm surprised when i hear certain friends/acquaintances say the opposite.... "They thought you were gay? How would they know that?!"
When I get excited or nervous, I can queen out. When I'm calm, I'm more masculine, I suppose?
In the end, I don't give much more than a shit or two. And there are even times when I like to sound queeny to challenge people--both gay and straight--on their bullshit hang-ups about gender norms.
Straight-acting gay guy here!
[quote]When I get excited or nervous, I can queen out. When I'm calm, I'm more masculine, I suppose?
This is true for many of the more masculine gay men. Most of them don't even realize it, unless it's pointed out them.
this is all to fascinating from you gay guys, " when i get excited or nervous, i can queen out. When i'm calm, i'm more masculine, i suppose"?
WTF does that mean.
You guys just raised my suspicion that most gay men are mix of very feminine, pretty feminine and a bit feminine and the minority masculine.
Nothing wrong with that since i am sometimes attracted to very feminine boys.
I have no idea what you are going on about R41/R43/R48. Not even trying to be bitchy but your post at R41 makes no sense. Your post at R43 doesn't really make sense ( How does the fact that you consider yourself mostly straight give your opinion any expert weight? What you are trying to claim is blatantly untrue for some of our experiences which is just the obvious truth that people vary).
[quote]WTF does that mean.
Its meaning is quite plain. Thx.
You sound a tad touched.
I run into a lot of metrosexual (hipster) guys, so not sure this thread really means much. I would like to ask, without starting a new thread, for a rough idea of what percent of married het men wear wedding rings (yes, I realize that these days some married GAY guys do, which complicates that)? My dad never did (he's phobic about jewelry period, not even a wristwatch). In other words, a guy over 30, with no ring, and no wife/kids around, does that up the gay possibility?
I've been a bit confused by seeing two guys together, who seem like they might be a gay couple, where one has a ring, and the other doesn't.
I'm so masculine I can drive down the street in a BMW3 series with sunglasses in my hair and Lady Gaga blaring out my windows and construction workers will think I am 100% heterosexual.
#49 yes it does.
it just that many of the thread i have read suggest so. I have to say what i am an say it so because you guys will not believe me. Also this mystical fairy tale that there is as much feminine straight men as gay men is NOT true at all. Just be honest that their are many more feminine gay men than feminine straight guys.
hahahaha, you gay guys are soo funny and that bitchy attitude is so amusing. I have such a fun time reading here. Gay gossip is truly hilarious that it is bitchy, catty and a bit [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool]. I LOVE IT!
Keep it up you guys. one of my favorite websites
I'm as masculine as Liza Minelli riding atop a fruitcake at a Pride Paradae... and I'm a top. My bf is butch as they come but a total bottom whore... go figure.
What does any of this matter? The question itself is rife with self-hatred. Who else but some panicky, paranoid self-loather who's consumed with presenting a "masculine" facade to the world would ask such a question?
i think they will question your sexuality about blaring lady gaga out
[R55] you sure he is really masculine.? Any men that only bottoms or thinks of bottoming and gay or something else is a [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool].
you are probably so feminine that you can't notice his feminism
I'm kinda butch, until I open my mouth and a manpurse falls out. I can pass for straight as long as I don't speak. As soon as I talk HELLOOOOO MARY!
That's me to a tee, r59. I'm pretty masculine in appearance, but when I open my mouth a gaggle of chorus boys drops out. Gay voice is real, and I have it. I used to be self-conscious about it, but now I don't give two shits what anyone thinks of me.
R38 you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Gay voice. Gay face.
Everyone here knows it.
No R61, you're the one who has no real gaydar. You're the one who can only rely on stereotypes, like a straight person would. There is a lot more to it than that.
If you're gay you need to hang around with more gay people to hone that skill so you can see it outside of gay environments. If you are straight? Forget it. You don't need it, take our word for it. Or better yet don't, and stick to your sitcom stereotypes. It'll give you something to talk about.
[quote] I am pretty masculine, no one assumes I'm gay
A man can be masculine without being forever mistaken for straight.
I am pretty masculine..straight friends tell me they can't tell at all. I went out on a match date with a guy who claimed to be very masculine and when he showed up a freaking purse fell out of his mouth. Maybe I'm the same way? Am I delusional? When I hear my voice played back I sound pretty straight.
I look straight, and can appear quite menacing if I want to, but, as soon as I open my mouth, all pretense is dropped.
Most people thing I am straight when they meet me. I have been told by straight people I don't act gay, whatever that means. I usually have to drop gay references with women so they dont start the crushing on me. (not bragging, just a fact)
But once I know you, I am like a gay little puppy dog. I dont do it on purpose, just seems to happen when I first meat people.
Most guys who I fuck think I'm
Most people are self deluded. You need a different poll. Ask everyone to ask 5 friends, acquaintance or family member to rate how masculine or feminine you are on a scale of 1 to 10. Report back here with your results.
If you're not shy, also ask strangers and co workers this question. You'll get a more honest answer then. Or ask your friends to write their answers anonymously.
Felix Unger without the hypochondria.
Butch except for the earrings and caftan.
I was surprised at the poll - as of this posting about 45% say that no one assumes they are gay. I feel that straights might be fooled by 45% of us, but gays know gays. I can spot a brother in passing without even trying.
A lot of people tell me that I remind them of Will from Will & Grace or some gay character from Frasier (I've never seen the show so the person may not be gay). So I guess I would go with choice 3. I mean I don't try to hide it. Straight people have a tendency to just assume that everyone is straight, particularly straight guys.
Of course I'm masculine...I weight train 5X's a week, wear stylish,colored underwear or jock straps under my street clothes, keep my hair always neatly clipped(including chest,crotch and underarm) and maintain a perpetual,very manly 3-5 day beard growth,also trimmed. Did I mention I own a Jeep Grand Cherokee?
It's the same for me. Very masculine, I only drop gay references when women start annoying me.
The poll describes exaggerated caricatures. Worse, it declares them to be a norm. I'm not macho or prissy. I'm just natural, normal, unprogrammed. Why is there such an agenda here to suggest that it's normal to be something other than yourself?
The poll and many of the responses are nothing more than the usual propaganda to portray gay guys as less than male.
Some gay guys have definitions of masculine that no one else has. Most people raise an eyebrow if a guy is into "female music," doesn't like football, wears briefs (instead of boxers/boxer briefs), or watches Bravo, but many gay guys who do these things still claim that they are masculine.
People have done the math by now, but when I was younger I used to get: When are you getting married? on a regular basis.
Hell, my cleaning lady asked me once after years of cleaning my place and I had porn lying around.
People see what they want to see.
One of the hardest parts was straight people saying shit about gay people in my presence after an obviously gay person left the room.
I don't let people get away with that now. I'm sad to say back then I was just too paralyzed with fear to point out to them how bigoted they were being.
Just because people are assuming you're straight doesn't mean they think you're 'masculine.' There are so many straight metrosexuals, men wearing purple & pink shirts and earrings and men talking with hand gestures and with European sensibilities that people are leery about assuming anyone is gay by how they act.
In other words, you can be totally flaming and people will still default to seeing you as straight.
At the same time, people assuming you're gay may have nothing to do with feminine or masculine behavior. Many women pick up that a guy is gay because they don't look at them the way straight guys do. Many straight men check out every woman they see, whether they're interested in them or not, almost automatically while a gay guy won't do that.
I agree with you: people see what they want to see.
It's very easy to fool certain people, especially fraus, if you are attractive and masculine. Beautiful women, instead, are less gullible. If you're single and you don't hit on them, they immediately "smell a rat".
People judge masculinity on how guys talk. For instance, a guy who says " dude" or "bro" a lot will likely be perceived as feminine. I can't think of one feminine guy I know that regularly says "dude" or "bro."
Wearing briefs instead of boxers is a "gay clue" R78? I do hate football, and don't watch Bravo, but I would be willing to do so. I was chatting with my 74 and 84 year old folks recently, finding that I knew more about 40s and 50s films than they did!
I tend to think other gays may be able to tell fairly quickly that I'm one, too, but most straights assume I'm straight.
[quote]Nothing wrong with that since i am sometimes attracted to very feminine boys.
So if you weren't attracted would there then be something wrong with it?
I'm sorta feminine, I guess. I hate sports other than tennis and skiing, I love theater, classical music and literature, and I have a little lisp. One thing I'm not is a fashion-queen.
I'm totally out, and I kinda like myself as I am.
"Wearing briefs instead of boxers is a "gay clue" [R78]?"
Yeah, it is widely perceived that way. Or as nerdy. Old people are exempt.
I am feminine but i am a gay woman :)
For me it was the fishnet stockings that bared my soul to my mates. None of the other guys would wear them. I thought they completed me when wearing briefs. I have really nice calfs and those black outlined boxes really grab attention. I don't wear them swimming, but I do put them on to tan. I like patten resulting, especially under a black light. When I have to butch it up, I wear regular panty hose, with nude toe and heels of course. No one really notices unless there's a lot of static electricity. A few have complained that my pubes poke them in the eye when I first remove my stocking so I keep reeding glass handy to protect there corneas and sclera . I'd hat to have to handle the memory of blinding a guy giving he head.
Thanks, R86. I am both old and nerdy, so much relieved!
r76, is a f lamer
I'd say the poll seems accurate - about 15-20% of gay men are obviously gay.
The rest are harder to tell. Although I have to laugh at the "masculine as they come" line - most gays can even tell these types as well.
I've only been surprised by 2 or 3 men who I thought were straight.
It all depends on the situation. I am relatively masculine acting in my day-to-day life to the point that women hit on me, assuming I am straight. When I am exclusively in the company of other gay men, however, I can camp it up like nobody's business.
God, there is nothing worse then a fem guy. Nothing gets me softer than a guy with that has a purse fall out of his mouth every time he opens it. If I wanted to be with a woman, I wouldn't be gay.
I'm just the boring median. I'm not a flamer but I enjoy their company, I'm not butch but I like sports, I'm not closeted but not everyone at work knows - no big mystery there, I just don't feel the need to announce my sexuality to everyone I meet. I don't hide, but I'm not particularly Mary-ish. I know straight guys who are camper than me and gay guys who are manlier. I don't much care TBH, if someone sees me a gay fine, that's what I am, if not, that's OK too, they can find out as we go along.
Glad to be grey.
Why don't just ask folks if they're good looking and see how hot the majority is. People have no self-awareness.
Theater, classical music, and literature are not particularly feminine activities, r85.
I'm not a campy flamer, but I'm not a butch guy either. I dont talk much about sports, but I'm into cars, and I know a pretty woman when I see one, so I do throw some people off. I tend to attract really chubby, queeny guys who seem to think accessible/approachable because while I'm not "queeny", I'm not aggressive and domineering either. which can be a double-edged sword because I get a lot of older men looking for someone to take care of and boss around I am not the one!
That being said, when I started coming out to people when I turned 30, many weren't surprised, and one of my neighbors mentioned a city that he thought I should consider moving to because it was "gay friendly," and I've never told him about me, and I don't have a lot of foot traffic coming to my door for sex, so I must be more obvious than I thought.
However, I'm not attracted to really femme or overweight men. I've been dealing with a friend of mine who wants me to be his fuckbuddy or boyfriend, but I'm not physically attracted to him at all - he's a bit overweight, short and queeny. Nice guy and I do hope he finds someone one day. I'm not thin myself, so I have no room to be TOO picky, but I have really worked hard at losing weight for almost 4 years now (130 lbs and counting!) and still have a ways to go. So yeah, im losing weight mainly for health reasons, but for superficial reasons too...I want to see if i can get a different type of men to hook up with/date/marry.
[quote]Just because people are assuming you're straight doesn't mean they think you're 'masculine.'
True. Im would not consider myself very masculine or very feminine. Everyone usually assumes straight until they have enough interaction with me to know that Im gay, I think everyone is like that gay men included. Women are usually the first to ask me because they or someone they know is interested. Its flattering and frustrating at the same time because I am single I just think about how easy hetero dating is compared to same sex dating.
I try not to box people in, but my initial attraction is based on the combo of masculine and feminine vibes I get. I generally go for masculine looking guys with masculine voices, and feminine looking guys with feminine voices. You can still be a huge queen either way, and thats what I like most of all.
Just because someone doesn't TELL you they think you're gay doesn't mean they actually think you're straight. Please.
[quote]Beautiful women, instead, are less gullible. If you're single and you don't hit on them, they immediately "smell a rat".
True - one of my female friends told me she knew I was gay when we met because I didn't check out her breasts in the first 5 seconds.
Attractive women figure it out quickly.
r99, you're not understanding. I said people assume straight until they get to know me, enough. That time frame could be 5 seconds like r100 said, or five weeks, it all depends on how good their gaydar is. And I wouldnt be saying that if I still didnt have to reject flirtatious women. If youre a person with a penis and are masculine in appearance, most people will assume you are straight when they first see you. And please dont argue that point with me because if this wasnt the case us gay men could approach men like women do with no problem.
[quote]Its flattering and frustrating at the same time because I am single I just think about how easy hetero dating is compared to same sex dating.
I also think about this. Straight people just have so many people to choose from compared to gay people. I'm a gay guy in my early 30's who is on the masculine side and has a deep voice. I get mistaken for straight and hit on by women all the time. And I mean ALL the time. I don't want to lead them on, so when it becomes obvious they're interested in me sexually I just flat-out tell them I am gay and usually they just laugh it off. I often think that if I were a straight man I would be getting pussy left and right; it's amazing how many hot, horny women there are out there. I don't nearly get enough gay men hitting on me because there just aren't that many of us compared to straight people.
r102, totally can relate
I think I have feminine traits but I also get a lot of women (especially at work) doing crazy googly eyes at me. They're all on the prowl for husbands so they must be blinded by their hormones or something.
I think being tall and good looking or having masculine features can balance/compensate for some feminine traits, especially as perceived by women. I always get the impression that straight guys are not so easily fooled by these characteristics, however.
I won't argue the point with you, R101, but not for reasons you think.
The average American male is perceived as masculine. He watches football, says "dude/bro" a lot, watches ESPN, wears swim trunks/jams, walks slow and manly, sits with his legs spread, and consciously avoids girly or effete interests like Bravo, musicals, female music artists, and fashion. There are degrees of masculinity, but the average male in mainstream America is quite masculine, especially compared to other Males in the Western world.
The average American male *is* masculine.
This is a mixture of socialization and biology, but it is true.
I believe all homosexuals should have been born with some physical attribute that made it so they could never hide. Like horns or a tail. It really is shameful toreador things like, "no one assumes I'm gay". I can't respect a man who lives by this motto. Nothing weaker, in my opinion.
[quote]It really is shameful toreador things like, "no one assumes I'm gay". I can't respect a man who lives by this motto. Nothing weaker, in my opinion.
I dont think I and some of the other posters on this thread are making contact. How people perceive me is how people perceive me. Me coming here and telling you how most people perceive my sexuality, whether at a glance or after getting to know me is just that. Im NOT saying I enjoy people NOT thinking Im gay. In fact it, it is slowly driving me crazy because it makes it hard to lure in other guys that are gay too. I agree that we should have a physical trait like straight people do to make dating easier!
80% of gays and lesbians are in the closet
American men are generally the most masculine men in the Western world. Aussies are second most masculine
Many heterosexual college males say 'That's so gay,' but why?
January 30th, 2013 in Other Sciences / Social Sciences
Many heterosexual college males say 'That's so gay,' but why?
(Phys.org)—"That's so gay" is a popular expression on campuses nationwide among heterosexual students, especially young men. But why do they say it? A new University of Michigan study sheds light on this question.
"That's so gay," although not necessarily said to harm lesbian, gay and bisexual (LGB) students, can create a hostile environment, say U-M researchers. Inherent in this saying—frequently used to declare something, some behavior or someone as "stupid" or "uncool"—is the assumption that being gay is inferior and that being heterosexual is desirable.
Regardless of the underlying intent, these messages can negatively affect LGB students, says Michael Woodford, assistant professor at the U-M School of Social Work and the study's lead author. The findings suggest that heterosexual male students' tendency toward saying "that's so gay" is partially explained by certain attitudes and factors.
"Studies find that perpetuating LGB hate crimes and gay bullying is strongly correlated with homophobia. Therefore, it is commonly assumed that homophobia is linked to saying 'that's so gay,'" Woodford said. "However, our results suggest otherwise."
Among the heterosexual male undergraduates surveyed, attitudes about the acceptability of same-sexuality were unrelated to using the phrase, but levels of discomfort with feminine men were related. The more respondents were uncomfortable around feminine men, the more likely they were to report saying the phrase.
The study also found that when respondents heard the phrase frequently, they tended to say it more often.
"We're all affected by the social context we're in," Woodford said. "Our results suggest that students may replicate what they hear others say. Some students who use the phrase simply may be following the dominant language norms or are unconsciously replicating others' behaviors."
Most respondents (65 percent) reported saying "that's so gay" at least once on campus in the past 12 months, and 31 percent reported using the phrase 10-plus times. Nearly 90 percent of the students reported hearing "that's so gay" at least once on campus; 63 percent indicated hearing the phrase 10 or more times.
"The high rate of usage suggests that using the phrase is part of the campus's implicit culture," Woodford said. "It's a cultural norm, one that the campus culture has allowed to develop and continue. As a result, students perceive it is okay to use the phrase."
In contrast to previous research, the current study found that being exposed to lesbians, gays and bisexuals, specifically acquaintances, may reduce the number of times a person uses the phrase.
Earlier research conducted by Woodford and colleagues found that LGB students are at increased risk for feeling unaccepted on campus as well as experiencing physical health problems, such as headaches, the more they hear "that's so gay."
"Since these problems can interfere with students' academic performance, eliminating the use of the expression from college campuses is important in fostering lesbian, gay and bisexual students' well-being and potential," Woodford said.
Data were collected using an anonymous online survey that asked about experiencing and witnessing harassment and other forms of interpersonal mistreatment on campus, as well as students' attitudes.
The study used data from 378 male undergraduates between 18 and 25 years of age who identified as "completely heterosexual." Participants were asked how many times in the past 12 months they had "said the phrase 'that's so gay' to suggest something was stupid or undesirable." They were asked about the frequency of hearing the phrase used in the same way.
The study suggests that to eliminate the phrase from college campuses, education focusing on increasing male students' comfort with, and ultimately acceptance of, atypical male gender expression will make a difference. Also, it is critical for staff, faculty and students to intervene when they hear the phrase, thereby conveying that such language is inappropriate and ultimately beginning to change the social context and interrupt a potentially harmful social norm.
The study's other authors were Michael Howell, assistant professor of social work at Appalachian State University; Alex Kulick, a U-M undergraduate student in Women's Studies and research assistant in the School of Social Work; and Perry Silverschanz, a U-M lecturer in the School of Social Work and the Department of Psychology.
The findings appear in the January issue of Journal of Interpersonal Violence
I'm somewhat feminine, judging by my ability to cunningly manipulate people. I'm also very soft and subtle when I strike back at people, making them eventually think that it was their fault that they were struck.
Of course, I don't do these things, but they just came to me once. When I realized what I was doing, I stopped. I guess that's what every ex of mine was feeling like. They probably never knew that they were using sex as a weapon. They probably never knew that they were conditioning people around them to put them on a pedestal just because they were hot. In my case, I was able to be put in a pedestal because I was semi-rich. It's all stupid.
104 is correct in his impressions.
Straight men have the best gaydar on the planet.
r114, only if the guy they suspect is not masculine. I have noticed that straight dudes are totally blind to masculine bisexual and gay dudes. They assume all guys are straight, except flamers and guys who don't fit in with the fellas. They are hyperattuned to guys who display non-masculine mannerisms and interests, but if a dude is mainstream masculine, they assume he is hetero.
I neither swish like a pair of windshield wipers, nor scare little children with my butchness.
I am secure in my own skin and don't worry about pissy little things.
My bf teases me about my being feminine sometimes. FOr instance, the other day, I told him that I was going to get my hair done. He laughed at me for saying that, and said that men don't get their hair done, rather they get haircuts. I told him that my grandma, mom and sister have always used that term, so naturally I do too. He said it sounds ridiculous coming from a man. Do you guys think 'getting my hair done' is too femme?
Yeah, hair done? I have never heard a dude say that. It is one of those things you never think about, but it is a fact.
r115, same with straight chicks
R118, "getting my hair done" is most certainly an [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool] choice of words. I have no problem with femme guys so I think it's kinda cute, but, no, guys don't tell other guys they're getting their hair "done". "Done" implies a lot more than a simple haircut, it literally means that the stylist (please don't say "hairdresser") will be "doing" multiple processes to your hair, ie a "style and set" with curlers while sitting under those big hair dryers, flipping through women's magazines and gossiping with the ladies, or getting your roots touched up and a blowout before that big date, or maybe a kicky little perm and some highlights for that big formal event you just bought a new frock for.
You get the idea. Guys say "I'm getting a haircut", because that's (presumably) all you're getting: your hair cut.
But keep saying it how you want. Femme guys are quite cute. ;)
I would probably be considered in the same general ballpark as Sara Gilbert/Ellen Page/Kristen Stewart.
So, I guess the female equivalent of the step bellow I flame.
This thread has the flaming faggots in full attack mode.
lots of homos
I strip for a living
Masculinity/femininity and sexual orientation don't necessarily correlate and so I always thought this obsession was stupid.
I was told by someone a few months ago that I look liked a "straight Black guy that went to school with white boys." WTF?
I am the type of homosexual who was gender disordered during early childhood. By the time that I was 5 years old, the beginning of my memory, my father and older brothers were calling me a "sissy" and while they were not extremely cruel in it, I was able to tell that they did not consider this acceptable behavior. So I patterned myself after them, and other boys when I started to school. In elementary school, I tried to befriend the "sissy" boys, and thought that I could help them, but they preferred to just be one of the girls, and endure the ridicule and rejection by other boys.
Puberty was a very difficult period of time for me. I live in rural Arkansas, and at that time, homosexuals were still being committed to mental hospitals. Stonewall had happened, and there were "gay" pride parades taking place in California, but I knew that I never wanted to be one of those freaks. I just wanted to be a normal man, and have a normal life. I experimented with other boys, but I never admitted that it was anymore than experimentation in preparation of marriage. ie: "If you let me fuck you, then I will let you fuck me, then we will both know what it feels like to fuck somebody."
Right after high school, I married the only girl that I have ever dated. And it ain't none of your damn business. My wife got what she wanted out of life, just as I did. We have three children and seven grandchildren, and two great grandchildren so far. I have earned a good living, and been a good husband, father.
Lots of women are envious of my wife, as she has a good stable home and marriage. I am not bad to look at, I do not drink excessively or use any illegal drugs. I am a good provider, and certainly not any wife beater or anything like that. I warned her before we married that I was not very "romantic" and if a practical marriage was not what she wanted, she should look for the "fairy-tale" stuff elsewhere. I also told her that I have a small penis, and that it might not be possible for me to satisfy her without using hands and mouth. This was very embarrassing, but I made sure she knew what she was getting into before she made vows. She did not have any other suitors. I am the only boyfriend she ever had, and in those days, people considered "good, decent, Christian folks", did not have sex outside of marriage or fool around many years before marriage. I have always made myself available to her sexually, regardless that it does not thrill me all that much. To this day, I make a point of letting her look at me naked while I bathe and dress every day that I am home. I make a pass at her at least once a week, to see if she wants to get off with me. It was a lot more often when we were young.
I guess I am masculine, because I live my life as a full-time farmer and part-time trucker, and nobody ever guesses that I am queer except those that I meet on the internet. But I very definitely started out life as a "sissy" boy.
r128- total BS
How nice for you, r128. You're a real martyr.
I don't know why so many of you busybody "gays" are so convinced that us closet queers are some sort of especially evil people, and you are out to destroy our lives, marriages, and families. But it seems to me that those that "out" their sex buddies, are the evil people. Everybody did not grow up in NYC or LA, and my life is none of you damn business. I grew up in a different time and place, and I'm just telling what life is like for a 60 year old closet queer from rural Arkansas.
I don't think you're evil, r128. I'm just sad for you. I'm sad that your cultural environment forced you to feel that you had to waste your life and not get what you really wanted from life.
r132, better than the cultural environment of out gay men- AIDS, drugs, self loathing assholes, most gay men are single etc etc etc
I'm not any of those things, r133.
r133, that is a gross overgeneralization, dude
OP why can't women answer this question?
it is amazing how there is basic consensus on what is masculine and what is not. society really communicates what it expects out of men very loudly and clearly, and punishes any departure from the expectation. a guy who listens to and idolizes female singers is gonna catch hell about everywhere, even now.
100 percent masculine ALPHA MALE
I have a friend who thinks he's Butch and is very opinionated regarding feminine guys.
While he's not a hairdresser on fire, there is nothing Butch about him. He's closer to flaming than Butch.
I always wonder if there's some self-loathing going on with him given how in denial he is about his femme side and how much he dislikes busy boyz.
A straight woman I know says her Gaydar goes off when she sees a butch looking guy swinging his arms walking on the street.
straight women don't have gaydar
totally masculine. for same.
Also totally masculine. I don't try for it at all. It's just my affect. I tend to like more traditionally masculine activities too, like sports and tinkering with shit, taking something apart and building it again.
Oh, and I like nothing more than getting pounded by a big ol' dick. While watching Sportscenter.
I don't take myself that seriously
Gotten VERY nelly as I've gotten older. Almost, but getting close, to Caftan territory. Hand gestures, burst into singing.
I've heard "tone it down Mary" more than one occasion.
I don't care.
I have masculine and feminine traits, gestures, interests, etc. I'm so tired of men who describe themselves as masculine, or say no one would ever guess they were gay. My current boyfriend describes himself that way and although he's not a flamer, most would pick him out as gay. His daughter (yes, he was married but he came out to his credit) told me her friends used to ask her if her father was gay. Just goes to show you. So for all the guys on here describing themselves as masculine, my guess is many of you aren't as masculine as you think.
Totally masc for same only
I'd place myself on the feminine side of the spectrum, but I also have a high-degree of self-awareness. I'm the first to acknowledge, and to mock, my high voice, wildly expressive hands, and my swishy walk. I can't recall a time when I resolved to affect these mannerisms; I've simply displayed them as long as I can remember. I can't project my standards onto anyone else because I've never had any.
As for my choice in romantic partners, I'm not especially preoccupied with the masculine versus feminine argument. My main criterion is a good sense of humor. If a man can make me laugh, I couldn't care less whether he's a construction worker or a ballet dancer.
I don't hate femme guys but it's hard to respect a grown man who acts like a teenage girl.
100 percent all-man masculine, bro
Strictly masculine for same only
In my head, I think I am not very masculine. But every time I have come out to someone they seem to not believe me. "But you dont act gay", they will say which at first I thought was funny, but now am finding kind of annoying.
About half and half. As a matter of fact, my mother was a woman and my father was a man, so I'm kind of bisexual.
Masc for masc
Is anyone here more feminine than baseball player Anthony Recker?