It's subtle but true. When a loved one dies, happiness is limited forever after.
Sure, we adjust, but there remains a lesser degree of happiness that one can experience without the existence of one's entire family. I can't even imagine what those CT families will be like without their murdered children.
Trust me nothing is ever the same again. You get your life back but there is always a shadow hovering just out of sight and then it can loom up and ruin things. It has been alamost 40 years and the shadow is still there. There are good times too or you would just end it.
As we all know only too well' the entire world has never been the same since we lost Princess Diana.
A lot of people feel like it's their duty to honor the deceased by using him or her as an excuse for their own unhappiness.
That happens when people have convinced themselves that outside sources are vital to their own idea of happiness. It's the same way with self worth where people put other people in charge of deciding how worthy they are.
I have lost a number of people close to me. More people I love and who have loved me are dead than alive. There is no remedy for that. Not everything can be fixed, willed away, or rationalized.
But that hasn't made me enjoy being alive less, I'm just sad at times.
I think you honor the dead by loving yourself as much as they loved you. You have to honor their love by accepting it, believing it. You honor the dead by being the person they believed you to be, your best self. You carry their love with you.
It's not that happiness is limited, it is just the cycle of life. Grief is inevitably part of life. Don't wear it like a shield that cuts you off from the living, just let it be there, a part of you.
R4 sounds wonderful. No surprise that you have been well loved in your life.
This thread is brought to you by Ingmar Bergman.
Thank you, R4 and R6. Very level-headed and sensitive.
No man is an island, entire of itself. Each is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less. As well as if a promontory were. As well as if a manor of thine own or of thine friend's were. Each man's death diminishes me, for I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Everyone comes to their own peace about it. They find a way to deal with it. Sometimes they accept the thought that it was just their time to go, that their birth was fate and so was their death. We all have our own fates.
After you get older, you realize that death can be a blessing.
The one counter-argument I'd make to this is that new sources of happiness, new friends, new endeavors, new intellectual pursuits, can be found, so it's not necessarily true that your happiness is "limited forever." It's only as limited as you allow it to be.
There are kids involved in Newtown, so it may be a little different than what many of us think. That said, I always see life as being for the living. I don't want to be kept alive artificially and want those left behind to spend a whole lot of time mourning. I will be where ever we go and maybe we'll see each other again. But keep on living life while we have it.
I've know people who have lost children to disease or accident, and their grief is always with them, not too far under the surface. I cannot imagine the grief of a parent who loses a 6 year old to murder.
Sometimes it can be years after the death but when you are alone, you might stop and cry and feel the grief again. Then it passes and you go on.
Grief is one of the defining traits of life. Grief makes death barely tolerable. Without grief, man might eventually live forever, but with grief, this will never happen.
As an eldergay, I lost dozens of loved ones. Grief has left me drained. It changed me forever.
My partner died two months ago suddenly. We learned he had stage 4 colon cancer on Wed and he was dead on Friday. I'm learning all about grief and how it hits you suddenly like a punch in the gut.
I know sympathy from a stranger probably doesn't mean a lot, but I will keep you in my prayers--and I'm very sorry.
Grief is one of the foundation blocks of religion. Any belief that tempers ones grief is a welcomed comfort. If those of us who are died in the wool non believers, hope there is an outside chance we are wrong about an after life.
Thanks [R19] I appreciate that.
Dick Cavett: I was thinking of in your book when you mentioned that you've always been good under pressure, except when your mother died.
Mae West: Oh yeah, well that was the worst tragedy of my life. I don't ever expect anything to equal that.
Dick Cavett: What pulled you out of that depression?
Mae West: Well, it took time - took me about three years.
Dick Cavett: Did you think of quitting the business? Was it hard to perform?
Mae West: No, I went on, 'cause I knew she wanted me to.
R16--You win for profundity and truth. Is this your idea, or one you read somewhere?
I know what OP refers to. I've lost someone very dear to me about four years ago. And I am still struggling to "aright" the ship.
My older brothers were twins and M died twenty years ago, they were young (I was a little kid), Z has never been ok since then. He is still alive but I am always waiting to get a call that he isn't. I believe it's the "twin thing" that has made it worse for him because even our parents have done better. It took time but they are good now - like another poster said, just sad sometimes.
Often I have wanted to just shake my brother back alive but then I just can't. There is no magic button it seems.
I think this is more likely when the death is "out of order", by which I mean that the death of parents in their 90s with diminished capacity is less traumatic than a young person or a contemporary.
OP, if you are talking about your parents being gone, you are wrong.
You are much too attached and emotionally dependent upon your parents.
You need to grow up!
You are behaving in a very childish way and showing yourself to be developmentally disabled.
My heart went on and on.
R26 will not be missed by anyone. I, however, will feel an immense mass lifted off my shoulders.
R1, 40 years ago! You are profoundly depressed and you apparently do not realize it.
Probably has something to do with the overly long and tedious holiday season.
You can feel like a punch in the gut occasionally from missing someone who is dead, but grief 40 years later is over the top, unless it just infrequently clouds your mind, otherwise you are unstable and not dealing with life well.
I agree that the loss of their 5 and 6 year olds in Connecticut is a very profound loss that will last a lifetime and that some happiness might be limited in the future for them.
But the loss of parents is something an adult should be able to get over and not have happiness limited in the future, and not overly dwell upon, but realize it is a part of life.
Losing an intimate partner or a child is different from losing parents. The lasting impact and adjustment is different for each.
It is different when losing a parent...if you are an adult, you try and prepare yourself for the death of a parent.
Losing family members is crippling. I struggle with the losses everyday.
Sorry for your loss, R18. Sending you a warm hug...
I dream of my lost ones a few times a year. They're never bad dreams, but they remind me that something is irrevocably lost and changed.
I think losing a child has got to be one of the hardest things to get over.
"the loss of parents is something an adult should be able to get over"
So judgmental. So North American-centric, where it is okay to dislike your parents and where it is "normal" to try to outgrow your parents ASAP.
Losing a sibling at an early age creates some mind fuckery over what might have been at odd times in your life. Having only two dimensional images makes you wonder what they'd look like, what they'd be doing with their lives.
Surviving my parents? Perhaps I'm a little ahead of other people my age, but we'll all be in the same boat if we live long enough.
That's the nice thing about nephews and nieces; you see bits of your parents in their personalities. It is a form of eternity I suppose.
Could there actually be an anti-parent troll? (Use Troll-Dar to witness the urine stains.) People grieve differently, so stop telling others how to miss their parents, you fucking weirdo.
R30 "parts of life" hurt. Loss hurts. There is no shame in grieving any loved one. After a time, if the grief interferes with other life activities, then there might be a problem.
I agree with R3. There comes a point when you realize the departed would want you to be happy. It's all uphill after that.
Happiness is always limited.
R35, you sound mentally unbalanced.
And you are using false equivalancy.
Not being incapicitated by overwhelming grief, sadness, or inability to carry on a happy life does not equate to 'disliking one's parent'.
One can very much like one's parents and still go on to live a happy life and a life absent of frequent relived grief, sadness or inability to carry on with life.
R33, I think you should seek counseling to help you come to terms with the fact that death is a part of life. And you need to seek connections outside of your family members and outside of your family members who have died.
R38, I am not anti-parent at all. Being able to go on to live a stable, adjusted, happy life can be sought and achieved by all who have lost loved ones.
One shouldn't put all of their emotional energy into parents - one needs to branch out for connections. It isn't emotionally healthy to be completely emotionally dependent on parents. In the scope of life, parents will almost always die decades before the children.
And the remaining decades of life lived by the remaining children should not be decades of suffering if one is emotionally healthy.
Being able to adjust to life and lead a satisfying life after death of parents has nothing to do with a 'north american centric way of thinking'.
R42/R43 sounds insane. How bizarre that you want to dictate to others how to feel about their deceased loved ones!
R4 states it well saying that deaths have not made him enjoy life any less - but instead, he just feels sad at times.
Mothers who lose children are the saddest people in the world.
It seems that a lot of people on DL somehow grew up not knowing that it is NORMAL for parents to die before their children do. Completely normal. Most people are sad when the inevitable happens but they realize that it is the normal course that life takes if one lives long enough. Only on DL does it come as a complete and tragic shock.
Honor the ones you miss by living well. Life is for the living!
No one here says it's not normal for parents to die before their children, R42/R43/R47/proxy of the moment. But it's oddly authoritarian to tell people how to feel about it. Grief is highly personal - back off from trying to tell people how to process and live.
When our beloved Diana was suddenly taken from us, many of us wondered how we would be able to go on without her. Needless to say, it has been has been extremely difficult but, short of suicide, we have no choice but to try and make the best of it and go on.
R47 is a different person, R49.
A well-adjusted, stable person with ability to carry on a satisfying enjoyable life after experiencing deaths of parents is an emotionally and psychologically healthy person.
Parents do not want remaining children to suffer for decades after the death of parents.
A death of a child or spouse/partner is a different type of loss from losing parents.
Oh, I think it's quite clear that R42/R43/R47 is the self help passive-aggressive troll.
Good advice at R42, but very cold and logical. That's fine in context, but not this context.
Too many mommie's boys on Datalounge who are unhealthily too emotionally dependent on their mother.
R52 - I am R42 and R43, but R47 is a different person.
Being a passive aggressive self help troll is also North Anerican Centric. R42 and R43 know nothing of grief.
I am sorry for everyone's losses.
Yes, in all or most countries outside of North America, remaining adult children of deceased parents go on to live very unenjoyable, unhappy, unsatisfying, incredibly sad lives of non-ending overwhelming incapacitating grief and unhappiness.
I'm feeling a bout of Robert Post's Child coming over me as I type.
How ridiculous the OP's postulation is. The fault largely stems from the definition of "happiness," which apparently is being used as some sort of giddy, infantilized, always-getting-what-she wants feeling of undeterred and unending possession.
After the shock and grief of a loss, one's happiness (in commonplace, non-Aristotelian terms) derives from having had the person in one's life, apart from being an active presence. My happiness in life and living is fulfilled by my memory of a dead loved one, of my dead partner. I don't confuse having my way in all things with being happy.
Losing someone to a hideous attack is an extreme case, and the PTSD or amplification of anxiety or depression can make things worse and permanent. Some people are psychologically challenged. But their responses and inability to adapt and work through the natural stages of grief - time and calm reflection being the greatest aids - cannot be considered to represent either the norm of love or the acme of devotion. They need help.
(And, yes, I've lost loved ones to murder, suicide, and absurd and avoidable accidents.)
Plus the OP needs to learn the definition of "subtle."
[quote] I am [R42] and [R43]
Also R45, R51, R53, R54, R56. Please sort your own issues before lecturing- 7 posts out of 17 on this page seems quite obsessive.
I can't wait till Charlie chimes in!
Loss is part of life and definitely dies not preclude happiness. In fact it can inform happiness. Grief is a process- the process of responding to and getting through loss. Part of grief is fear for yourself. I can grieve a loss that is years in the past- but I do not grieve all the time. Life continues and you have to focus on the present and those still here. That's why it is important to make new friends and keep finding people (and animals) to love.
People in Asian countries recognize the ways in which they are tied to family and community in ways that North Americans do not. They honor and respect their parents and do so even after their parents have died. They recognize that life is full of sadness because people die and do not fool themselves into thinking that being happy is some sort of right and that you are ill or unbalanced if you aren't.
That's one reason childhood is considered such a precious state.
R62, I think your interpretation of Asian countries is a bit skewed and off.
Adult children of deceased parents in Asia do not live in abject grief, continual sadness, continual unhappiness, an inability to overcome death of parents, and an inability to enjoy life until their own deaths.
But believe what you desire in order to justify your own lack of strength, extraordinary weakness, and over-dependence.
People you love can die. You miss them, but it doesn't limit your happiness.
Get a grip on reality, OP.
R64, if you ever think of them and have that twinge of sadness, your happiness has been limited. Not enough to inhibit your life, but limited nonetheless. Just that little twinge dampens joy, momentarily. And, it happens to everyone who ever lost anyone they love until the day they die.
You have either never loved anyone, or never lost anyone.
Threads like this one are why I haven't given up on Datalounge.
R65 is being melo-dramatic and insulting.
R64 never said or implied that he has not ever loved someone.
R62 that's because they believe their ancestors fuck with them after death. It's actually a crippling thing.