One group (Gay Generation X) has fought and continues to fight for equality. We are here and we are queer! And embrace being part of the gay community whole-heatedly. Remembering the struggle for rights.
The other group (Gay Millennials) don't believe in labels. They seem to take gay rights for granted and don't like to be defined as being gay. They are a man, like all other men. The only difference is they fuck other men. Other than that they don't identify with the gay community.
So which group do you belong too?
Eldergay here. It was my generation that were fighting (and dying) for rights before the Gen X was born.
We are the ones who lost jobs, homes, families, and our lives for being gay in the Sixties, Seventies, and Eighties. We stood on the shoulders of those brave queens at the Stonewall Inn and joined our brothers and sisters as they demonstrated with ACT UP.
OP, you watch way too much television, and it's clear you don't actually *know* any gay "millennials." I do, and not ONE of them refuses to "use labels" in this context.
Btw Generation X is too young for much of the *real* gay-rights progress made in the '80s in particular, when ACT-UP was leading the charge particularly on issues such as widespread dissemination of AIDS.
Well, that's what you fight for rights for, isn't it? So people can have the freedom to be who they are ON THEIR OWN TERMS.
Hardcore feminists bitch about the same thing. Get over it. It's the result you wanted you just don't like it because they're not now doing what you want them to do. Kids with an easier time of it these days!
Gay Generation X are in their mid 30s to early 40s
They certainly did fight for gays in the military, AIDS awareness, gay adoption and marriage equality.
These were all hot button issues in the 90s and 2000s.
We now have the removal of DADT, more same sex couples can adopt, we are getting closer to marriage equality and have made more aware of AIDS/HIV
So gay generation x has made strides.
Just ask Luke Sissyfag, he is a gen xers who made a world of difference.
Generally Millennials have had an easy passage through life so they are not natural warriors. Gen X on the other hand got the short end of the demographic stick, so they had to fight for everything.
R4, I don't think anyone's denying that, but OP's post makes it sound like gay activism STARTED with Gen X, which it did not. It also makes it sound like Millennials haven't done anything about gay rights in recent years because they "can't identify with gays," which is also bullshit.
The "no labels" attitude of millenials BOTH gay and straight cause them to VOTE for gay marriage bills and politicians who support the cause. The overwhelming support for gay rights for that generation has permitted shifts in policy.
Google, microsoft, Amazon etc push for gay rights now not just for the talent they seek that happen to be gay but for talent they seek that are straight & gay friendly and not ambivalent to the issue like straight older generations.
That generation throughout the kinsey scale is more solidly united on gay issues than any before and their influence should not be demeaned anymore than those who came before them and fought for the cause in their own way.
Bullshit. Millenials are not helping the movement by heading up organizations and social action groups. That was accomplished by the generations before them. Instead, they are taking a cue from Generation X before them, and living their lives openly and without shame. They are more willing to be open and honest with people they've just met about there sexuality because many of them never lived in a time where being gay was an issue. And they are also more likely to socialize in mixed circles. Because of this, they are bringing the gay movement to the next step beyond gay rights, which is making everyday straight people aware that gay people are just like them and people they care about. They're bringing many more straight allies to the fold. Straight allies who were integral to the gay rights victories we won on the ballot this past November.
It may not look like the victories of gay activists before them, but they are victories nonetheless.
I've found that most of the eldergays who bitch about disrespectful Gay Millenials are the first to make a sloppy, drunken move on one of them at a bar.
Where are you getting your information from, OP? It's kind of hard to answer the poll when the whole premise is false.
How about a Same-Gender Loving Generation X dude who is dating a chick now.
As a gay millenial the idea that most of us don't believe in labels is absurd. As all polls show we are actually out in record numbers much higher than other generations. As R8 said we are the group that has normalized being gay to a generation and the reason that something like 73% of our generation supports things like same sex marriage.
There were two dykes on the train today, necking madly and being REALLY loud and obnoxious. I felt sorry for their little boy who spent the entire time staring out the window - I don't think simply to take in the view. Zero class. Freedom has its drawbacks.
A young dude here who dates chicks and dudes, but not at same time. I am upfront about liking both, but don't ever call me "gay." That word is not my word. A lot of guys are like me about that word. If you want to use it for yourself, go right ahead. Just don't impose it on people who reject the label.
I chose Gen X only because I prefer to cross my arms in front of my chest like a superhero as opposed to throwing my hands over my head like the motorcycle cop in The Village People.
I am really torn by this survey. I am a Gen X'er but I completely undersand the Millennials point of view. Why do we need seperate bars and rights for gays/lesbians (equal yes)? Why can't we remove those segregations and be men and women?
And R1, while those queens at Stonewall are to be remembered as brave and crucial to the gay community, let us not forget Barbara Gittings who paved the way as a lesbian pioneer 3 years prior to the Stonewall riots.
A lot of you seem a bit confused about dates and when each generation "took the reins" so to speak. The boomers were definitely still driving the agenda during the 80s. Gen x'ers were still most underaged and not quite active in those days. I associate boomers with most of the early fight for gay rights, not gen x'ers. I wasn't even born yet when Stonewall happened.
I'm at the older edge of Gen x and the 80s were still my teenaged/early college years. Some of my peers were active in Act Up or Queer Nation (which was not founded until 1990) but I didn't meet them until after the fact. I didn't start to come out until 1989 when I was 20. I consider the 90s my "coming out/of age" decade and I think most gen x'ers do as well.
[quote]The other group (Gay Millennials) don't believe in labels.
This is a ridiculous generalization. Do you know any 20-something gays, or are you basing this assumption on something you read on DL? I've been hearing idiots claim they "don't believe in labels" for years, it's nothing new.
It's funny... Even at Stonewall, this exact argument was going on. I believe they summarized it in the recent book, which informed the documentary.
In ancient Babylonia, an old queen sat cruising by the gates, saying "The younger gays just don't understand how hard we had it." While a young queen swished by, saying, "We're so much FREER in our identity than the previous generation."
Things have gotten a lot better in a short period of time, which is great, but its not as if there isn't still a ton of predjudice/judgement/shame/fear/discrimination out there, so the premise that the youngest generation today are living in a time when its not an issue and don't still have to contend with that and that everyone is all accepting is false.
I agree with R21. Things are so much better but there is plenty of ignorance to contend with. The closet it alive and well for many - and for good reason: too many wingnuts out there ready to send a fag to hell with one shot!
Isn't the Millennials' experience what previous generations were fighting for? There is a small group that thought gay rights was a radical struggle for a separate identity and a separate freedom. Most of us were fighting to end the stigma attached to same sex relationships and to stop being identified by whom we sleep with and to be treated the same as everyone else. The attitude of today's young gays represents victory. Equality for us and more freedom for everyone.
R15 Lesbians do that shit al the time, partly because being a lez/bi girl is MUCH more accepted than being a gay/bi guy. I also think it's funny how homophobic straight men bitch and complain about how gay men shove their lifestyle choice down their throats, when it's the LESBIANS who are always showing PDA everywhere. Seriously ask any straight guy how many times they've actually seen to guys making out in person vs. How many times they've seen 2 women. Yeah that's what I thought.
What about those of us in the middle?
Gen-X in age, millennial in attitude; emotionally, my own gayness really is that big a deal to me and I really don't give it that much thought or angst.
Also, I don't identify with gay culture in the slightest. I'm also the first DLer in history that doesn't have his head up Judy and Liza's asses......**cue hissing eldergay outrage.** Other than my turn-ons, I'm no different than a straight guy; I've always managed to fly under people's gaydar.
[quote]Also, I don't identify with gay culture in the slightest. I'm also the first DLer in history that doesn't have his head up Judy and Liza's asses......**cue hissing eldergay outrage.**
What a riveting marvel of originality you are! This website has never seen the likes of you in all its born days.
[quote] doesn't have his head up Judy and Liza's asses
R26, I can say the same thing and I am 53. You can add Patti Lapone and Madonna to the list as well.
Not to worry, R16, I would never call you gay.
Cocksucker, yes, but not gay.
[quote]A young dude here who dates chicks and dudes, but not at same time. I am upfront about liking both, but don't ever call me "gay."
No one would call you gay because you are bisexual.
One thing strikes me about Gay Millenials is how nelly so many of boys are. It's not a bad thing, exactly. They're embracing who they are and don't feel the need to blend or to pretend to be something they're not. So good for them. It's terribly unappealing, but good for them.
R16 made me a bit nauseous. Please stop using the word "dude" forever. "I'm a dude who dates chicks and dudes." Vomit.
But, that aside, this whole "I don't want to be defined by who I have sex with" thing was around when *I* was a kid (and I'm 40 now). Younger gays always think that who they fuck is only a small portion of all they have to offer the world.
When they get older, they might realize how important relationships are and how the fact that you're dating (or married to) a person of the same gender really is a huge thing.
I'm sure the Gen Y kidz are nice in their way, but please don't tell me that they are at all original. They aren't. Americans are just forgetful.
r32, the word "dude" is ubiquitous/everywhere today. Young women even call other females dude now. People use it just to fill space in conversation. It is part of the modern vocabulary.
Baby boomers fought the hardest for gay rights because we're the strongest, most talented, smartest, and best looking generation.
I'm Gen X, and I'd have more respect for Millenialls if more than half of them weren't living off of their parents. They're all over NYC with their parents' credit cards, and living in Manhattan and Brooklyn apartments paid for 100% by Mommy and Daddy, acting like entitled shits.
Boomers brought Liberation to the table and just as Jones were about to partake, AIDS took it all away.
Gen X stepped into the breech left by the deaths of so many beautiful gutsy men, and turned the movement into the puerile mess it is today.
"Dude" is a tiresome word meant to express a easy casualness that I find trite and lazy. It's also been around forEVER and to assert that you are some kind of young, on the cutting edge, finger on the pulse, avant garde type and yet use terminology that would feel at home in an early 60s surf movie undercuts your argument a bit. Don't you think?
[quote]There were two dykes on the train today, necking madly and being REALLY loud and obnoxious. I felt sorry for their little boy who spent the entire time staring out the window - I don't think simply to take in the view. Zero class. Freedom has its drawbacks.
Assholism knows no color, creed, sexual orientation blah blah blah. Gay people are just as flawed as the straighties and should be able to be exactly who they are as everyone else.
[quote]the word "dude" is ubiquitous/everywhere today.
I love how you had to define 'ubiquitous'. Cute. But seriously, thank you for the support. I resisted 'dude' for the longest time, but finally surrendered since all my female friends use it.
r16 it's obnoxious, immature slang and you know it. Quit being a bitch.
I'm 22, and I don't know anyone *openly* gay in and around my age who doesn't care about gay rights or actively not associate with the community. In fact, from what I've both seen and read on the PC, that seems like something gay men around 35-50 do. I live in Richmond VA and most of the people who are really pushing equality in this city, at least, are VCU kids, and college kids in general, whereas older gays tend to just want to live and not be on the front lines. Just my 2 cents.
Overall, though, I am so thankful for everything the older generations have done and continue to do and I try to know my history in terms of the brave LGBT persons who were out in the 70s and 80s when things were so much worse than today. Without them, I wouldn't be living the life I do.
The Millennials world evolves around their smart phones. So far, they haven't used this technology to do anything of significance for the community or the planet as a whole. They do however, gossip a lot about entertainment and sex. Maybe they will eventually start being more helpful soon.
With all due respect, OP is too old to be of Generation X.
And right on, R35! It's not only in NYC; it's all over the USA and downright nauseating.
Hedonism and superficiality are rampant in so-called gay communities all over the world.
I'm appreciative of those from earlier generations who worked tirelessly so that I could enjoy certain freedoms, but it's also a fact that some members of generations prior are responsible for HIV/AIDS becoming pandemic in the USA instead of being contained. The idiotic statements made and sheer ignorance demonstrated on the HIV thread of this forum literally made me cry.
As has been noted on this forum previously, ACT UP did not accomplish anything of substance.
Gay Generation Xer
I liked your post R40.
R42 how old are you if you identify as a Gay Generation Xer ?
I am a millennial and I absolutely identify as GAY.
Nice try, fucker.
[quote] I am a millennial and I absolutely identify as GAY.
These gay millennial at the link would disagree with you.
R47 not one website, a group of Gay Millennials in an article.
Okay, ONE article, and how big is this group? Be a good little submissive bottome and count then for me
Not every GX gay was political. Not all GM's are non political. Young gay men are no more all about gay phone apps than older gay men were all about Fire Island. Grow up.
OP, I could give a fuck about your little website article, man. What I do know is that iD as gay and so do many, many other men and women like me in that age group. What I've gotten sick of since I was in college is idiots like you on this forum telling everyone ELSE all about what my age group is like and how they "don't like labels". I've been reading your self loathing, presumptive posts about what I am supposedly thinking or what I am supposedly like for ten years.
Get a clue: You don't know shit.
R45 did you even read the article at R46 ?
Read it and then come back and comment. Included in that article are tons of other Gay Millennials who have the opposite view and whole-heatedly agree with the article.
You're cribbing from a website, old man. I'm actually that generation. Thanks for playing.
Not that it matters, but I wasn't trying to imply that R33 was actually talking to me. I was just sticking up for all of us who use the word 'dude.'
We're not necessarily stupid.
R46 et al, the over arching point of that article is that for our generation being gay means something different than it did for you. Which yes is true, I am gay, most of my friends and the people I hang out with are straight guys and in general being gay hasn't affected my life much from if I were straight except I sleep with men. Thats because people before me made it possible that being gay didn't really have to be that big of a deal for me.
The article is just exaggerating that to make a point, it isn't so much millenials don't "identify" as gay as it is for us being gay doesn't have to be an identity.
r56, to some degree you are correct, but you seem to speak too generally without taking into consideration the major differences across race, class, education, religion, region/location, and other attributes (jock, gender normative, geek, nerd, hipster) that affect how one who is bisexual or gay identify and live.
You're a little bitch r42. You don't deserve for anyone to even give you the time of fucking day.
I like some dudes, and my bros are cool with that. No offense to those who identify as gay, but I have no problem being known as bring into dudes, but just don't call me gay.
[quote]Shortly after they began exchanging kisses on the dance floor, Cameron approached them and took them to a staff room where they were told, ‘You guys have to stop kissing or you’ll have to leave the bar,’ one of the couple told The Guardian.
[quote]“He said if it were a guy and a girl kissing he would do the same thing, but there were other people kissing and no one was spoken to like that.”
But we don't believe in labels!!!!!
I'm a gay millennial well versed on my gay history. I have a soft spot for older gays because I'm so well aware of the shit they had to go through. I also know that my generation is doing a lot for the younger ones as well. What I do hate is when the older gays seem so jealous and bitter about the fact that my generation sees marriage as a viable option, are finding ways to interact with each other outside of sex, and don't feel the need to completely define ourselves by our sexual orientation every moment of our lives.
Think about it like this: I'm black. If I had to filter every single move I made or thing I do through the lens of "black" and whatever that means to other people who may feel a certain way about it, I'd go fucking nuts. I mean completely insane. It's the same way I feel about "gay." It is something that is. I'm not in any closets. I'm completely out, I care about gay rights and gay history as much as I care about my rights and history as a black American, but I cannot and will not let either completely define me as a person.
I am not going to allow myself to live in a world in which the only people allowed to be individuals are straight white men.
R16/R59 is 100 years old.
Gen X births started in 1964, in other words, some of them are already elderly.
Right on R62 !
or as the gaylings like to say... the justin beibers vs. the jared letos.
58 yo Eldergay here. I consider myself a survivor. I have 2 friends from my youth who also survived. Stonewall happened because we were pissed off once too often. Then 20 years later, ACT-UP got stuff done because once again we were pissed off.
And if the Supremes decide to uphold DOMA, we will be really pissed off! There will be hell to pay.
But who would have thought, at the turn of this century, that marriage equality would be on the table in 2012?
56 yo eldergay here, and there was a huge division in the community when gay was first used. There was a group of much older men in 1969 who thought that gay rights and mingling with Lesbians was not a tasteful thing to do. They were, and remained, hard core HOMOSEXUALS. Most of them died in the closet.
But you see, Blanche, they'd be 100+ years old today. Mortality has its virtues.
It's really true that gay men and lesbians didn't mix back in the olden days. That's so weird to me.
[quote]The other group (Gay Millennials) don't believe in labels.
My god, you are old, and no, it's not Gay Generation X fighting for equality.
[quote]What I do hate is when the older gays seem so jealous and bitter about the fact that my generation sees marriage as a viable option, are finding ways to interact with each other outside of sex, and don't feel the need to completely define ourselves by our sexual orientation every moment of our lives.
Exactly! OP's generation is fine sitting at the back of the bus. They also don't want to align themselves with the breeders, and they want to live in the 1980s when they had sex in alleyways. It was "dangerous" and "forbidden." They're pathetic. They hate gay neighborhoods at are now built up, and family oriented. Fuck them.
[quote]or as the gaylings like to say... the justin beibers vs. the jared letos.
We don't say that. God, who the hell are you talking to? You probably read shit from a couple of idiots on the web, and get your info that way.
Gay Millennials got Obama into the White House. They're better at organizing, and grew up hearing that they deserved the same rights as everyone else. Look at Lady Gaga and co. The younger generation cares more about gay rights than the oldsters. Gay Millennials know how to use the web/social media. That's why they get shit done, and don't pull shit like Act Up!. They get inside headquarters, and make changes themselves. They present themselves as mainstream, and get what they want. They're smarter, and more resourceful than old asses like OP.
"The great thing about being gay is that you didn't have to join the army."
How about non-gay men who are into dudes? They more numerous than the gay-identified ones.
The guys featured in the article posted by r46 were loathsome.
"My buddies and I joke that we’re not gay, we just fuck dudes. I always enjoy people’s accusation that ‘You can’t be gay’ because of my appearance, my tastes (in music, wardrobe, etc.) and my personality. [There’s this] idea that all gay guys like pop music and bad denim from Guess, and talk like a lame, effeminate caricature of homosexuality.”"
I think OP's premise is a bit off. I remember the "We're here, we're queer, get used to it" when I came out as a teen in 1990. I remember Q magazine and wearing my 'Queer' tshirt and getting told a few years later that I shouldn't use 'queer' to describe myself since that wasn't a valid label. Apparently, only the approved labels were deemed correct a few years after the 'We're queer' time.
I thought the younguns right after me were a bit more uptight and demanding regarding sticking with only LGB as a label. Some in the generation after (the milennials)seem to be only concerned with their new gadgets, reality tv and b.s. fabulousness. I'm sure the eldergays thought the same of us obnoxious gen xers.
[quote]And if the Supremes decide to uphold DOMA, we will be really pissed off! There will be hell to pay
Where were you when it was originally passed?
Oh, I remember -- telling the rest of us that Clinton is far better than the alternative, and that he was playing 16 Dimensional Chess
[quote]How about non-gay men who are into dudes? They more numerous than the gay-identified ones.
Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that bisexual men outnumber gay men?
Clinton hugged the Gay Movement to death, which is why he got away with DOMA.
[quote]I like some dudes, and my bros are cool with that. No offense to those who identify as gay, but I have no problem being known as bring into dudes, but just don't call me gay.
It's so cute when the eldergays around here try to pose as young people.
So many troll posts...
I hate the word gay. It seems so lame and unmanly. No wonder guys will
Do anything to avoid that label.
R83, do you really think it's about the word? I'm sure you'd eagerly embrace whatever word conveys the proper masculinity.
Lame and unmanly sounds more appropriate for someone who can't accept a term that has been around for decades. It's not the word, it's the shame.
[quote] I hate the word gay. It seems so lame and unmanly. No wonder guys will Do anything to avoid that label.
Yeah. They'll do anything except avoid a certain gay website.
[quote] Lame and unmanly sounds more appropriate for someone who can't accept a term that has been around for decades. It's not the word, it's the shame.
R62, good to read your post. I am mid 40s but see it as you do.
In general, this whole topic... it makes little sense to typecast entire generations. So much of who we are comes from not just age but from gender, race, country of origin (or, if USA, how many generations), family dynamics, etc.
I have seen entire threads based on bashing "the Boomers" as what's wrong with the entirety of Western civilization. What idiocy.