- I love Barbara's tough-as-nails gravel voice. Wasn't she a big smoker?
- [quote]Wasn't she a big smoker?
What Golden Age star wasn't?
- She was a smoker, all right. A smoker of a great actress. And seriously underrated; never got the credit she seriously deserved.
- What didn't Angela Lansbury get along with Barbara Stanwyck?
- WTF? I thought Barbara and Joanie were once lovers.
- Fascinating, Barbara is talking some SHIT about Joan!
- Listening to Stanwyck and Eder reminded me of two old granny gays.
Lovey, wait till you hears this!!!
- It was rumored that Stanwyck was up for the lead in MILDRED PIERCE. But Crawford pulled a Paltrow and got it...the rest is history.
- I swear I'm not the Lucy troll--Stanwyck pulled a Paltrow and stole Ball of Fire from Ms. Ball, as she was the much bigger star.
And I love Missy, btw.
- Crawford fans here still deny she was a child abuser, but Stanwyke's comments about how nasty Joan was, backs that up. Stanwyke probably didn't witness any of the abuse, and people didn't talk about the issue back then anyway, but Joan's alcoholism and reputation for nastiness, sure make Christina's story believable.
You can still like her movies, while also admitting she was a drunken cunt and a monster to her children.
- What is pulling a Paltrow?
- Puling a Paltrow = sleeping with the producer
- R11, pulling a Paltrow is swiping a juicy part from another actress. Winona Ryder was originally up for the lead of Shakespeare in Love -- until her "best pal" Paltrow allegedly stole Ryder's copy of the script and campaigned for the part herself. Ryder had been the leading contender for the part but Paltrow basically shoved her out of the way.
There are also rumors Paltrow slept with Harvey Weinstein to land the role.
- Yes, LOVE Miss Stanwyck! You tell 'em!
- Don't you find her kind of mean and scary in her movies as well? Or is that her appeal?
- Love this. Backstabbin' Bitches... "She would call people at 1, and 2, and 3 in the morning and just say nasty things"
- nasty things like what...?
- Actually, had they slept together?
I read that Crawford had slept once with Marilyn Monroe and that she had an orgasm and when the next time asked from Marilyn to repeat what they had done, Marilyn didn't want. From that point Joan was bitter with Marilyn.
I also have read about Crawford that among her female lovers were Barbara Stanwyck. So maybe Stanwyck didn't want to continue with Crawford and Crawford got furious. Lol.
Eve Arnold was a renowned photojournalist (with her many brilliant photos from all over the world), photographed Marilyn Monroe over a 10 year period as well as many movie stars such as Joan Crawford. Eve Arnold said in one of her interviews when they asked her about what did Joan Crawford think of Marilyn Monroe?
''They were, after all, two very different women. When I first met Joan Crawford she was really angry. She had just seen Marilyn at a studio and was scandalised by the fact that she didn’t wear a girdle. I remember her saying that she was a disgrace to the industry.''
- Joan Crawford,Barbara Stanwyck and Joan Evans,1960’s.
- [quote]She was a smoker, all right. A smoker of a great actress.
- Barbara Stanwyck, Franchot Tone and Joan Crawford watch a polo match on June 23, 1936. The match was between film stars and the Uplifters Club, to benefit the Children’s Convalescent home.
- The two of them with their husbands.
An evening out for Franchot Tone, Joan Crawford, Barbara Stanwyck and Robert Taylor, 1930s
- Barbara Stanwyck even claimed that I had unladylike hair growth. That bitch!
Tina, bring me The Wax!
- They were friends, i wonder what happened and Barbara said all this about 'angelic' Crawford!
Lol...no, i don't really wonder.
- And this one is the best of all of them...
Joan Crawford giving her friend Barbara Stanwyck a “chin up” admiration after her recent split from actor Robert Taylor, 1953
- Nice find OP.
Loved Shirley Eder and her "Shirl-leberty" interviews as she used to call them.
- Joan: One more orgasm is all i wanted, one more fucking orgasm.
- I discovered this now...!!!
- I love Stanwyck, but she was not the best mother either. Being orphaned at an early age, she was shuffled through foster home after foster home, and when she wasn't there, she was with her older sister who was intermittently employed. She had no real maternal instinct. Her relationship with her own adopted son, Dion, was quite problematic. She barely showed him any affection, unless it was for the cameras. He ended up leaving home at 17-18 to join the Army. He had several brushes with the law, including an arrest for selling/receiving porn. He died destitute a few years ago. I guess at least Stanwyck didn't physically abuse him, but the lack of affection or validation (she wouldn't even let him come home from boarding school during the holidays) had to have left some scars.
- Just Little Classic Film Things
- La Stanwyck was very homely looking.
- Well, at least Stanwyck only adopted ONE child and she never really went around pretending things were peachy.
- "I read that Crawford had slept once with Marilyn Monroe and that she had an orgasm and when the next time asked from Marilyn to repeat what they had done, Marilyn didn't want. From that point Joan was bitter with Marilyn"
Didn't happen. Crawford hated Monroe, but there was no sex involved. Crawford lambasted Monroe for wearing an incredibly revealing gown to an awards banquet, calling her "a disgrace to the industry." It was pure jealousy; Crawford was jealous of Marilyn's beauty and youth and stardom.
That Marilyn/Joan sex scene was invented by an old man named John Miner who claimed that Marilyn's psychiatrist let him listen to tapes of Marilyn's psychiatric sessions and that he took "extensive notes." You have to take his story on faith, since he has no proof whatsoever to prove anything he says. He also claims that on these tapes Marilyn spoke of her "friend" Mae West. Marilyn Monroe and Mae West never even met each other. So much for Miner's credibility.
- r31 = Helen Keller
- R33, and how do you know he has no proof to prove anything?
- So if Stanwyck was a lesbian (and I've heard that numerous times), was Robert Taylor a beard?
- R10 I've never read where anyone denied that she abused the kids. I've read where people have questioned whether the daughter exaggerated some of the events to sell the book. But it's been pretty much proven that she was not mother of the year material. Her two youngest children have said that she has never beat them, but it could be possible that by age, she had mellowed considerably. Like Crosby's two sets of kids.
I particulary question the book being released a few years back with pages of "newer" revelations. The woman has been dead since 1977, how you could possibly have newer revelations?
- R36, Stanwyck was not a lesbian ,she was bisexual.
Haven't you read about her affair with... Robert Wagner as well?
- [quote]Marilyn's psychiatrist let him listen to tapes of Marilyn's psychiatric sessions
I don't know the law on this subject (then or now), but I'd like to think that shrinks were & are bound by patient confidentiality rules/laws even after a patient is dead.
- R39, i know what you mean, however people in general are not so dependable even if they happen to be...doctors.
He maybe lost it or maybe he needed money and decided to spill the beans about Marilyn.
- Does anyone know if any of the movie divas ever had Black American female and/or male lovers (this includes White male stars as well, with Black male and/or female lovers)? Sorry to thread jump. I love Joan's glamour. Stanwyck was a grand diva in her own right. Could someone please start a new thread on this subjet? Thanks
- "I don't know the law on this subject (then or now), but I'd like to think that shrinks were & are bound by patient confidentiality rules/laws even after a patient is dead."
Marilyn's psychiatrist Ralph Greenson didn't play any tapes for John Miner to listen to; Miner just claimed that he did. Greenson was kind of an odd duck but he was devoted to Marilyn, possessive of her, even. He never would never have betrayed her by playing tapes of her sessions with him for a stranger to listen to. There is no proof such tapes even existed.
By the way, the Marilyn on those tapes gives the impresssino of a stereotypical brainless bimbo. She sounds like a man's idea of what Marilyn Monroe would sound like, and that explains it all, doesn't it? It was John Miner's idea of what Marilyn Monroe would talk about (the John Miner tapes Marilyn talks endlessly and luridly about sex).
- Joan sounds like a malignant narcissist. But I cannot believe that Eder would have recorded the conversation.
- [quote]I don't know the law on this subject (then or now), but I'd like to think that shrinks were & are bound by patient confidentiality rules/laws even after a patient is dead.
I'm not sure, but I think the rights to the material go to the next of kin. I know Diane Wood Middlebrook somehow got to hear all the tapes of the poet Anne Sexton's therapy, but I think Sexton's daughters gave her full access.
- I wonder if Crawford and Stanwyck ever attempted to work together on a film, I mean, when they were younger, before the hate set in.
- Barbara swearing was funny.
"That's a crock of shit!"
- There are so many stories about Crawford's bad behavior toward adults, told by witnesses. It surprises me how many people today don't believe Christina Crawford was telling the truth.
- Ryder would have been so much better in Shakespeare in Love than Paltrow, who just was not good in it. She's a decent actress and can be very good (Flesh and Bone, Silvia, Proof) in the right part, but she has always struck me as particularly unpersuasive as Brits.
- thanks op!!!
- Christina is a thankless bitch. The best house in Brentwood....wire hangers on 300 dresses, like dish rags.
- [quote]Does anyone know if any of the movie divas ever had Black American female and/or male lovers (this includes White male stars as well, with Black male and/or female lovers)?
Barbra Stanwyck had a black female personal assistant who appeared with her in this home-movie footage of classic stars on YouTube. Whether they had more than just a professional relationship I couldn't say, but the woman definitely pinged.
- "Barbra" = "Barbara"
- Wow, thanks for that clip r51. This is a total MARY! moment, but Stanwyck's dress in that clip was so chic and modern-looking. A woman in 2012 could wear that exact same dress and look fabulous.
- The best part of the Shirley/Barbara phone chat is when Barbara reveals that Joan was fucking Spencer Tracy while she was still married to Franchot Tone.
I assume the other actress Spence was involved with (before Joan) that Barb mentions but coyly doesn't name was Loretta Young?
- Joan is drunk off her ass in the interview that begins around 24:00. Recorded at a hat show at Robinson's, so presumably would have been in the middle of the day. What did she spike her Pepsi-Cola with?
- r55 Joan was well-known for spiking her Pepsi with vodka. Bette Davis bitched about it endlessly when they made 'Baby Jane' together.
- r41, I haven't come across anything having to do with these two but I've heard about Billie Holiday & Tallulah and Lena Horne & Ava Gardner. Not what you asked but still something.
- One of Barbara's best scenes EVER. Thanks to whomever posted it on one of the TCM threads.
- This is Stanwyck month on TCM, every Wed. This week, 12/12/12, the movies start at 9:45pm (EST) with "Remember The Night" (1940), co-starring Fred MacMurray as an Ass't DA who takes a criminal defendant to his family's home for Christmas -- very odd but wonderful movie, written by Preston Sturges.
- Barbra Stanwyck was one sexy bitch. Didn't matter that she wasn't traditionally beautiful. Hot!
- Stanwyck bloopers.
- I wish the clip of Joan Crawford filling in for Tina on the Secret Storm existed. Only te audio survives. You can tell she was drunk though.
- Yes, r56, Joan was definitely a vodka woman. She liked it because it's odorless and she could carry a glass of it around on movie sets pretending it was water.
- Wow OP, these rival the Judy Garland tapes. There are no stars today who can talk trash with such style.
- So what was the deal with Barbara Stanwyck? Was she a lesbian? She was awfully butch, esp. in her later years. Was her marriage to Robert Taylor a real marriage or a bearding relationship?
- God, Shirley Eder was such a yenta.
- Not just vodka. 99% proof. Most commercial vodka is 80 proof.
- [quote]This is Stanwyck month on TCM, every Wed. This week, 12/12/12, the movies start at 9:45pm (EST) with "Remember The Night" (1940), co-starring Fred MacMurray as an Ass't DA who takes a criminal defendant to his family's home for Christmas -- very odd but wonderful movie, written by Preston Sturges.
I'm so glad you posted that, r59. It's a wonderful, offbeat holiday film with a great supporting cast and I wish more people knew about it. MacMurray and Stanwyck had great chemistry. It's fun watching "Remember the Night" and "Double Indemnity" back to back.
"Leisen brought Remember the Night in 8 days ahead of schedule and $50,000 under budget. He attributed this not to his script pruning but to Barbara Stanwyck's professionalism. '[She] was the greatest," he said. 'She never blew one line through the whole picture. She set that kind of pace and everybody worked harder, trying to outdo her.'"
"He continued, 'Barbara had a bad back, and when we were shooting the barn dance sequence, the corset she had to wear under the old-fashioned dress was very painful for her. I'd say, "Look, you've got two hours until your next scene, why don't you just take it off and relax?" and she'd say, "Oh, no, you might need me," and she sat on the set the whole time. She was always right at my elbow when I needed her. We never once had to wait for her to finish with the hairdresser or the make-up man.'"
- "And....MISS Barbara Stanwyck"!
Heath Barkley's tight britches
- Little Natalie Wood with Barbara Stanwyck.
I read that years later Natalie said that she didn't want to end up looking and being like Stanwyck. As far as i remember she viewed Barbara with the passing of years as 'bitter'.
- Joan: A star i am, not a bitch.
- I love that BS called JC a "son of a bitch."
And in restaurants, Joan would take a sip of her drink and scream "THIS IS NOT 100 PROOF!" at the hapless waiters who dared to bring her less than top-shelf.
- "As far as i remember she viewed Barbara with the passing of years as 'bitter'"
Rather "bitter" than floating face down!
- Stany! That was cruel!
- [quote]And in restaurants, Joan would take a sip of her drink and scream "THIS IS NOT 100 PROOF!" at the hapless waiters who dared to bring her less than top-shelf.
Crawford drank Smirnoff 100 proof, which is not top-shelf. It wasn't the quality of the vodka but its potency that mattered to her. She wanted each little nip to pack the maximum wallop.
- That Marge Champion was obviously quite the little tattle-telling rat! She seems to have been one of Ms. Eder's major sources of gossip. Marge would have been under contract to MGM when Joan returned to do Torch Song.
Did Marge ever write an autobioraphy? Wasn't she the original model for Snow White?
- r75, and she chased that trashy 100 proof Smirnoff down with pack after pack of KOOL's. It's no wonder she died fairly young.
- I read June Allyson's bio and she and Dick Powell moved into Crawford's neighborhood and June received an invitation to come by Casa Crawford. (I guess Joan wasn't big on delivering casseroles.) June kept putting it off but finally went over and swore she'd never visit Crawford again.
JC never once asked JA (who was rising while Crawford was falling) about her movies or what she was doing. She insisted on giving June a tour of her house and basically just kept up non-stop patter about herself and her own career.
Christina appeared all dressed up for a party and sat by her mother after curtsying and saying hello to June Allyson. The two actresses continued to talk and ignored Christina who sat next to them.
Finally Crawford said, "You must be wondering why Christina is being so quiet today. That is because she is being punished." She then told Christina to go upstairs and bring down the big gift with all the fancy wrappings on it. Christina did so. "Now I want you go to and sit over there with the package in your lap."
Crawford went back to explaining things to Allyson. "Christinia disobeyed me and so she is not allowed to go to the birthday party. She is to sit there with the present in her lap and think about her behavior."
June Allyson couldn't take it. She said she cried for Christina on her walk home, the way a mother like JC could humiliate her child like that, in front of a stranger, for show. She vowed that she would never treat her own children that way, and eventually became a wonderful mother.
- Joan may have died relatively young but if she was living a life of seclusion by then, she was probably more than ready to go.
Being a public figure and out amongst her fans was everything to Joan, so if she was giving that aspect of her life up, there couldn't have been many reasons to go on.
- R78, that's arguably a more brutal treatment of Christina C. than most of the incidents repeated in "Mommie Dearest."
- At about 21.00, Stanwyck talks about Crawford cheating on Franchot Tone with Spencer Tracy.
And Eder responds, "I thought he was only interested in one woman all those years."
- "At about 21.00, Stanwyck talks about Crawford cheating on Franchot Tone with Spencer Tracy.
And Eder responds, "I thought he was only interested in one woman all those years."
I'm reading James Curtis's biography of Spencer Tracy. He also cheated on Hepburn with Gene Tierney. He also had affairs with Ingrid Bergman and Loretta Young.
He wasn't gay.
- REMEMBER THE NIGHT is one of my favorite holiday movies. Even better than the better known Stanwyck holiday film CHRISTMAS IN CONNECTICUT.
- As I have posted in here many times, my partner and were very close to a guy who was one of Cukor's boys and was at many of his parties. He and Cukor were close, I assume they were involved in some way, he might have said so, I don't remember. My partner knew this guy before I did. He lived with us for a while. We had a falling out and we haven't seen him for years. He's very old now.
He had lots of Hollywood stories, he ended making a lot of money and lost it all.
Anyway, he told us 20 years ago that Hepburn was a lesbian and Tracey had sex with men. Cukor told him this on many occasions. He saw them both frequently. He said Tracey used to do guys when he lived with Cukor, hated himself for it and was drunk all the time. Maybe not gay, maybe bi, not straight.
we heard the same story for years from him, I never knew him to lie. He was very rich and successful in SC before he lost it all. He was very successful in what he did and everyone knew him when he was on top. No one remembers him anymore.
- Barbara Stanwyck with Linda Darnell and Errol Flynn. I think that the woman who is left of Barbara is June Allyson. Am i right?
- Everything I have read about Joan Crawford (and I've read lots) confirms that she drank 100 proof Smirnoff vodka morning, noon and night, which I find rather amazing. I can't believe that woman was able to function at all with that amount of booze, and god knows Joan kept a hectic schedule. If I hit the vodka at breakfast, I would be incoherent by lunchtime and in bed sleeping it off for the rest of the day. I really don't know how Joan did it; she must have had a superhuman tolerance for alcohol.
- Joan: I love women, can't you see that i'm not as bitchy as you claim that i am? Some people! I'm a star and you love looking at me.
And now some vodka!
- Joan: They call me deranged and a bitch.
I just know how to make love with a temperament
- Joan with her daughter Christina on the set of the movie 'Sudden Fear'
- Blew it...
Actually Crawford was one of the most bizarre female characters that have ever passed from Hollywood. Bitchy, ready to say terrible things about other women and capable of making love to other women.
She could destroy what she loved and hold a memory of it.
- I think some people and mostly gay men will love this photo of Barbara. She is punching Kathleen Howard for the needs of the movie 'Ball of Fire'
- I find her very likable in this photo.
Oh, a human being, woman or man can have so many expressions in their face, don't you think?
- [quote]Barbara Stanwyck with Linda Darnell and Errol Flynn. I think that the woman who is left of Barbara is June Allyson. Am i right?
Looks like Allyson. The man in the rear is Sterling Holloway (I think) who was the original voice of Winnie-the-Pooh and a fixture on television in my childhood.
- Stanwyck liked her cocktails too - she fell down a flight of stairs and fractured a vertebrae during one of her binges.
- R18- You read that where?
- R82- he was at least bisexual and the man who used to arrange his trysts wrote a book about it and is still alive. He also arranged women for Hepburn-
- R94, whoa, that must hurt.
So they both liked booze and occasionally women.
They also had their ways with men. Usually bisexual women are very dynamic with their...prey.
Below there is a photo of an elegant Barbara. She is pouring some coffee (or tea) in a cup.
I suspect it is coffee...
- Great pic of Babs. I don't get the post that said she was ugly? Beautiful? No. But none of the greats were conventional beauties. But they were photogenic and had screen charisma. Something about Stanwyck on screen that held one's interest.
- I read 'Mommie Dearest' and found that Christina's stories didn't always add up. When she says her mother had a longtime sexual relationship with Cesar Romero, you have to question just about everything the girl says.
- [quote]He said Tracey used to do guys when he lived with Cukor, hated himself for it and was drunk all the time.
It's all in Scotty Bowers' book.
- Why would Tracy fuck around with a woman like JC if he wasn't straight? Stanwyck didn't say more but she said enough. It was the late 1930's so I'm sure he wasn't doing it for his career.
- I am the poster whose friend knew Cukor well. I have read Bower's book. I believe it is true but some of the details are odd. Well, that's what happens when you get people who were there to recount their stories. After years of retelling things maybe they sound like accounts rather than testimony under oath. Does that make sense?
Cukor told my friend that Tracey was religious, Catholic I think, and had a huge guilt trip about what he was doing. He'd drink and cry afterwards when he was dealing with the 'sin' hangover he got from the sex. Tracey had the place on Cukor's estate for trysts with men.
Cukor told our friend that Hepburn was a dyke. Not bisexual, not experimenting with women - a total dyke. The stories about her and Tracey being sexually involved - they were bearding for one another.
- not hard to believe at all.
- Unedited Crawford Interview. In her cups. Long setup. But the first question is verrrrry interesting.
"Miss Crawford, how much did your rather fraught childhood reemerge in your playing of emotionally disturbed women?"
"Well I think I still use certain qualities of and certain phases of it. It's very helpful to me."
Interview starts at 2:15
- [quote]Unedited Crawford Interview. In her cups. Long setup. But the first question is verrrrry interesting.
She's very beautiful in the first minute or two --despite her weird makeup-- where she's relaxed and not yet performing.
- Joan or Broderick?
- In the late '60s, Joan sure loved her a blonde brioche wiglet.
- Tracy shared the guilt that all we, Catholics, have.
Ramon Navarro had the same guilt.
Read a few times that Gene Kelly had had same sex trysts. And he did talk about sin; so there was the familiar conflict.
Always wondered whether Catholic stars had to have sex with someone in power to get choice roles.
Oh, I admire both Stanwyck and Crawford.
- She is undeniably beautiful in that BBC interview even with the crazy eyebrows. There are no waves and curls of hair around her face softening the lines so all aspects of her bone structure are visible.
I realize she must have had plastic surgery by the, she's in her 60s, but it is really good surgery. Why has this style of surgery been replaced with all the awful methods today?
- Maybe Joan was "taped up" for that interview. Her jawline is right for a woman about her age, 60ish, and is starting to disappear a bit. A makeup artist in Hollywood invented non-surgical facelifts where the invisible tape was attached to the sides and top of the head and drawn back under the hair where it was secured. You took them off at the end of the event or evening.
- The non-surgical facelifts were very popular with aging stars back then. Bette Davis, Marlene Dietrich and Lucille Ball all used them.
It is amazing how far plastic surgery and cosmetic dermatology have come, though many stars today have gone WAY overboard with getting work done.
- I hope there are more of this Eder tapes out there...
- r110, those "tapes" only work when the woman is wearing a wig (Dietrich and Lucy used the method). The tightening pulling threads were attached to the person's temples by hooking or temporarily weaving them into tiny braids of the person's own hair. And thus the eyes, forehead and cheekbones were lifted.
That's why I commented on how remarkable her hair is in the interview....it's not hiding anything around her face.
Now, perhaps there was a big ole bald spot being covered by the obviously fake chignon....that I'll believe!
r109, who knows about these things
- Who was this bitch Shirley Eder, anyway? Stanwyck certainly sounded cozy with her.
- Shirley Eder was an entertainment reporter who was well-known in Hollywood in her day. She's all but forgotten now, but her interviews and columns ran in newspapers all over the country.
- Just finished "Possessed", Donald Spoto bio. Interesting, easy to read. She had one facelift, in 1953, I think, shortly before filming "Torch Song".Nothing else. Spoto seems to be trying to rehabilitate her reputation as a important movie star, career spanning 1925-late 1960s. Pretty phenomenal. Then "Mommie Dearest" casts her forever as a camp grotesque, anyway, it's worth a read.
- I met Shirley Eders son a couple of months ago. He looks alike Stanford on STC. Said Stanwyck was his godmother.
- "I never knew him to lie."
That's a direct quote from Gore Vidal, who rather weakly defended his fuck-buddy Scotty Bower's lurid, unverified trash memoir with those very same words. Your imagination is lacking.
"It's all in Scotty Bowers' book.'
Which is nothing but a Darwin Porter-esqe bunch of hooey.
- "Who was this bitch Shirley Eder, anyway? Stanwyck certainly sounded cozy with her."
I used to see her on the old Mike Douglas Show. Shirley was always nice and loved the stars old and new. Shirley buttered up the stars and they trusted her a lot.
This is form 1968:
- Go to 4:22 in the above link. Shirley asks Lena Horne, "You don't look down your nose at Republicans, do you?" Lena likes Nelson Rockefeller.
- Did Shirley's column have an outlet in a NY newspaper? As old as I am (and I'm old!), I'd barely ever heard of her until this wonderful thread.
Sounds like she was more well-liked and less feared by the stars, in the Liz Smith vein.
- You don't have to believe me if you don't want to. I don't know Vidal nor was I quoting from Bowers book, it was just a coincidence. I believe my old friend, I have no reason to doubt what he said. He had quite a few stories to relate about people he knew at the time or had met. He was beautiful when he was young.
- I apologize for not knowing how to include a YouTube link here. Search Best Slap Ever HQ. not sure of the movie from the 50s but Joan Crawford slaps the fuck out of this woman. You can tell it hurt like hell from her reaction. Ol JC didn't hodge back.
- The film you refer to r123 is Queen Bee.
I can't tell you the name of the slapped actress because she was never heard from again.
Betsy Palmer, costar
- On the Queen Bee web site it says that during the screening, Christina got up and ran out after only half the movie because it was too close to real life. I thought Christina would have enjoyed someone ELSE getting the shit knock out of the instead of her.
- Christina has said that of all Joan's films, 'Queen Bee' is the closest to what she was like in real life. I don't see what the problem is but apparently Christina has issues with it.
- BTW, I just want say threads like this is why I keep coming back to DL. I'm interested in old Hollywood films and stars (and I'm only in my early 30's) and so many of the posters here are so knowledgeable - and hilarious - on this particular subject. I've learned so much from reading the threads here over the years. I especially love the Joan Crawford and Judy Garland threads.
- R127 in case you haven't seen this photo, here it's coming to you!
It's Joan Crawford with Judy Garland and Jane Wyman.
They are having a few laughs as it seems...
- I don't think Crawford was any more vain or crazy than St. Angie of Jolie, for instance. Same medicine, different bottle.
- Stanwyck and Eder seem to be reactng to a particular recent incident of Crawford meanness. What is it? And I don't mean Stanwyck's recollection of Crawford's behavior at LB Mayer's dinner for Walter Chrysler decades back; it's clear that that memory was drudged up in response to a particular current piece of nastiness. But what is it?
- Perhaps the simple truth is that Spencer was bi. I know some people on DL swear there are no bisexuals. But they are wrong.
- A man who is married, has a mistress, cheats on his wife and his mistress with other women and likes to fuck men is definitely bisexual. There's really no other explanation.
Closeted gay men generally have at most one female beard.
- It's highly possible that Mr Spencer was bisexual.
By the way Spencer Tracy and Robert Wagner became good friends while filming two movies together (Broken Lance, The Mountain)
Wagner praises Tracy in his autobiography
'Pieces of My Heart' and speaks about their friendship. However, he doesn't say anything about bisexuality or homosexuality in their relationship. In general Wagner, doesn't say anything about his bisexual experiences with men, maybe they weren't any, but...still...well...ok maybe.
- But Robert Wagner was hot and heavy WITH Miss Barbara Stanwyck at that time!!! (LOL).
- "he was at least bisexual and the man who used to arrange his trysts wrote a book about it and is still alive. He also arranged women for Hepburn"
I suppose you're referring to Scotty Bowers. I guess you don't know that he's been exposed as a liar many times over. No, I guess you don't know that.
- "A man who is married, has a mistress, cheats on his wife and his mistress with other women and likes to fuck men is definitely bisexual. There's really no other explanation."
So a man who cheats on his wife with a mistress and other assorted women simply HAS to like cock, too? That is one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard about anything.
- In James Curtis's biography of Spencer Tracey he devotes the final chapter to the spate of books that depict Tracy and Hepburn as both gay or bi. He does a good job at debunking them all and adds that they are "all part of a curious subgenre pandering to an audience that apparently wants to be told that practically everyone in Old Hollywood was secretly gay."
- Well, at least [bold]I[/bold] never had to resort to doing a (shudder) televsion series. What was it called now? "How Big Was My Valley"? Poor Barbara.
Joan dePepsi Crawford
- "Perhaps the simple truth is that Spencer was bi. I know some people on DL swear there are no bisexuals. But they are wrong."
Or perhaps the simple truth is that Spencer was STRAIGHT. I know some people on DL swear there are no straight actors. But they are wrong.
- Stanwyck film festival today and tomorrow on TCM
- Cukor lied, Tracey lied, Hepburn lied, Bowers lied, Crawford lied, Stanwyck lied, Garbo lied, was there anyone who didn't lie? People will ultimately believe what they want.
Now I will tell you I am probably one of the few people in the DL who ever met Hepburn and yes I am old. I met her with her obvious GF, so what. Yes, she was a old dyke at the time.
Why do you have to insist she was straight, just cause you WANT her to be?
- [quote]. He does a good job at debunking them all and adds that they are "all part of a curious subgenre pandering to an audience that apparently wants to be told that practically everyone in Old Hollywood was secretly gay."
Just Old Hollywood?
- r130, I listened to the tapes a couple of days ago so perhaps I'm forgetting, but aren't Shirley and Barbara speaking of Joan's death in that conversation of which you speak?
- Priceless! And those so-important old time New Yawk accents and diction.
- more please!
- So little seems to be said about Stanwyck's long marriage to Robert Taylor. What caused their divorce? I wonder why there is much less speculation about that union than Kate and Spence?
Robert Taylor was considered one of the handsomest men in Holywood in the 1930s and 40s but I don't think his looks come across very well now. He was very much in the mold of the other MGM Roberts, Montgomery and Young.
- This thread calls to mind the famous quotes about Crawford offered by her co-stars in Johnny Guitar --
Sterling Hayden said, "There is not enough money in Hollywood to lure me into making another picture with Joan Crawford. And I like money."
Mercedes McCambridge (whose costumes Crawford scattered along the desert highway one night while filming on location) later said, "She was a mean, tipsy, powerful, rotten-egg lady."
- But what did Joan Crawford say about Sterling Hayden and Mercedes McCambridge?
- Crawford was an egregious trailblazer in the trend toward lavish over-compensation of the senior executive class. She rationalized the use of corporate funds to furnish Al Steele and herself a conspicuously luxurious lifestyle. Most CEOs didn't bill their companies for the acquisition and maintenance of private penthouses in that era.
When the widow Crawford wrote "My Way of Life" she embarked on First Class nation-wide book tour. Her long list of costly and exacting demands made her publisher realize that enjoying a personal tour on the company's dime was one of Crawford's prime motives for writing the book.
- r146, both of them were 75% gay.
- R41, Ava Gardner had assignations with Joe Louis back in the day. This was not the kind of relationshpi where they were " friends" or hung out, it was purely sexual.
- Ava was bisexual too, but i guess most of you know that
- Joan wasn't that demanding r149, all she asked is that every bookstore on her tour tear down their bitch of a bearing wall and install windows where they ought to be. It made the stores much brighter and airier.
- Yep Ava...
- Who the hell is Stanwyck, and why does she hate Chace Crawford so much?
- R156, you must be kidding me
- Open your eyes...
- Not much to tell R146. They were married in 1939 at the urging of Taylor's MGM bosses. At the time, several well known unmarried Hollywood couples like Charlie Chaplin and Paulette Goddard, Clark Gable and Carole Lombard and Barbara and Bob were more or less living in sin. One of the then big-time H'wood tabloids did an article called "Hollywoods UN-married Married Couples" or something of that nature. This could have potentially derailed their careers (some even thought it may have cost Goddard the role of Scarlett O'Hara), so the said couples got married. Barbara and Bob did it mainly for publicity and security. Bob Taylor was considered so beautiful that his masculinity was attacked several times. Marriage would give him some credibility amongst male moviegoers. Stanwyck wanted to be married because she had a son and back then, people got married in order to fit in. At some point during their marriage, especially when Bob Taylor came home from the war, the marriage began to fall apart for several reasons. Basically he was tired of Barbara and her domineering ways. She had been orphaned at an early age and pretty much took care of herself most of her life and she was very bossy, even in front of Bob's friends.
- Stanwyck was rumored to have attempted suicide when she learned of Taylor's fling with Lana Turner.
Married to actress Barbara Stanwyck at the time, Taylor reportedly was so smitten with Turner that he asked Stanwyck for a divorce. Lana in her autobiography denied that she had an affair with Robert Taylor but she admitted that there was sexual tension between them during the making of their movie 'Johnny Eager''.
- That too...
- For me, Robert Taylor's beauty was ruined by the lack of a strong masculine jaw line. The jaw line in r160's photo is created entirely through that wonderful old Hollywood device, a key light.
Compare unposed shots of him in profile with this one and you'll see what I mean.
- A very young Barbara
- Barbara and Joan were beautiful in their own way. They had a kind of beauty in their faces, not a conventional beauty, but certainly beauty.
They would not be leading ladies and stars if they lacked that kind of beauty, not in that era they bloomed in.
- Looks like a young Jennifer Jason Leigh.
- Hmmm, a beautiful version of young Jennifer Jason Leigh maybe R165.
Below there is a photo of Barbara Stanwyck with Robert Taylor
- Joan: I'm in awe of my Oscar.
- R167 She looks like she's about to do something nasty with it.
- Joan: Orgasmic thoughts fill my mind
- R168 ROFL!
- Marilyn:Joan no more...
- Joan: And so it is...we forget the breeze most of the time
- Did Joan sleep with her Oscar? WTF is that about?
- According to my step-father, who was a publicist at MGM in the 40's, Spencer Tracy also had affairs with Loretta Young and Van Johnson.
- Joan: R173, all i need from my fans is to adore me and to get ecstatic with my performances...
I want to be orgasmic to them. Nothing can't stop me from that!
- Is there anyone in Hollywood Spencer Tracy didn't fuck?
- 'Is there anyone in Hollywood Spencer Tracy didn't fuck?'
R176, yes, Katharine Hepburn.
- "Is there anyone in Hollywood Spencer Tracy didn't fuck?"
He didn't fuck GUYS. He wasn't gay. That's a fact. But it's fashionable these days to proclaim EVERYBODY gay: Spencer Tracy, Abraham Lincoln, Jesus Christ...EVERYBODY! If you believe the gossip, there is no man of any note who was NOT gay.
- "Marilyn:Joan no more..."
There never "was" any "Joan." Those tapes were bogus. I've read transcripts of them. They sound like something Darwin Porter would come up with.
- The rumors of Tracy and Van Johnson and Tracy and Robert Wagner have been around forever. Gossip or not, they are not late-breaking fashionable gossip!
- Did Christina Crawford was honest in her book 'Mommie Dearest'? What do you think of Christina guys?
- I read somewhere that Bette would love to continue the feud rumors about her and Crawford, but Joan was too clever for playing Bette's games. You know anything about that?
- Joan: That bitch ain't a part of me
- Post for me bitches
- Spencer Tracy was such a fat fug, I don't see why anyone would say yes to him.
- "If you believe the gossip, there is no man of any note who was NOT gay."
True in my book. I don't give a fuck about straight men's accomplishments. They're born on third base and think they hit a triple.
Meanwhile, Tracy was a broken down alkie, but I guess that's a great man in your book. For someone who claims that gay men try to make the world gay, seems to be you'll claim EVERYONE'S straight no matter now fucked up they are.
Kudos to you!
- One can only imagine how wicked Bette must have been to Joan on Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte if it caused Joan to leave the picture and her incredibly juicy role in pre-production.
Actually Joan's role in Charlotte was really a far better role than Blanche in Baby Jane.
What ever did Bette do to Joan to make her flee?
- I think Bette was scared of her lesbian side in contrast with Joan. Bette couldn't deal with lesbian overtones well. Joan could dance better, if you know what i mean...
- The incident that is the topic of the phone calls....Joan actions according the Washington columnist (the one Joan calls a "Bitch" in the call) Maxine Chesire....were a bit...over the top...to the 23 year old child bride of Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas.
- Girls will be boys: Barbara Stanwyck, Marlene Dietrich, and Bebe Daniels.
I choose Barbara, she was clearly more stylish in pants than the rest.
- Joan Crawford
Multitasking sunbathing with answering fan mail
- Joan sporting a healthy tan with husband Franchot Tone, ca. 1936
- With her…frenemy…Bette Davis. July 16, 1962
- Joan and Douglas Fairbanks Jr playing darts, ca. 1930-31
- r186, I know right. He was trying to get at Myrna Loy and she stood her ground because he was not an attractive man and a serious alcoholic. If you are Joan Crawford you can get dick anywhere so why she wanted it from Spencer Tracey is crazy, but something you can't make up.
- Joan in her blonde phase, ca. 1931
- A slightly different take on the White House dinner incident at the link:
- Oh ok, R199 :)
Joan sports the boy look in a 1926 issue of Photoplay
- Joan hanging out with Claudette Colbert, 1932
- Partying in class with Clark Gable, Norma Shearer, and her husband Doug
- With Leslie Howard 1932
- With Marie Dressler, 1932
- Studying the script of Forsaking All Others (1934)
- Once again, here’s some of that girl multitasking power!
- Spencer Tracy being a total creep on the set of Mannequin (1938)
- Knitting on the set of Strange Cargo, 1940
- With Claudette Colbert? Way to go, Joanie!
- Barbara Stanwyck time!
- Barbara with Fred MacMurray studying their roles for 'Remember the Night' (1940)
- ROBERT TAYLOR- BARBARA STANWYCK- ROGER PRYOR CANDID BY HURRELL- 1942
- Barbara Stanwyck + Robert Taylor +dog - Candid at home - Early 1940s
- Barbara on the couch
- Barbara Stanwyck had definitely sex appeal when she was young.
- Barbara's ways...
- Barbara lying on the couch...
- Waiting on the couch...
- Barbara Stanwyck Fred MacMurray and Cow REMEMBER THE NIGHT 1940 original still
- Young Barbara
- They were both Queens, Barbara and Joan.
That's all i'm trying to say!
- Thanks again for all the gorgeous photos r223!
Now will someone with some class please explain to me about the correct protocol with the finger bowl and the doily? I read both articles and still couldn't quite get what was going on there that upset Joan so much.
And are you really expected to dunk your fingers into a bowl at a formal dinner? I never quite got that custom.
- I think Mrs Douglas had removed the finger bowl from her plate, but she had left the doily on the plate....where for God's sake the waiter was about to put her chocolate cake....
I saved her from embarrassing herself further by grabbing the doily off the plate just as the g.d. waiter was putting the chocolate mousse down.
Didn't you listen to the fucking tape? Your name is Cristina, isn't it?
Barbara, please, leave us along.
- Has there ever been a definitive bio on Stanwyck? She was obviously an outspoken woman so it should be good.
- Here's young Barbara looking butch as hell. She must've driven the gals wild back in the 1930s!
- It's probably too late to get a good biography of Crawford. Most of her contemporaries are dead. "Mommie Dearest" aside, the 2-3 I've looked at are compilations of fan magazine dreck and press releases.
It's a pity, because an honest account of her life would be a great story.
- Stanwyck by George Hurrell:
- R227 and R229 great photos! Cool!
- Another nice one R230!
- Thanks for sharing, beautiful indeed.
- And another:
She was no Lombard or Dietrich, but she photgraphed very well.
- Sensual photo...i appreciate that...
- Barbara was peculiarly sexy at a certain period of her life.
Some people are more sexy when they are younger and other people get more sexy as they grow up. With Barbara happened the first.
- We have actresses like Crawford and Davis, who apparently had mean streaks and were possibly just not very nice people. And yet Davis had de Havilland as a great friend and Crawford had Myrna Loy.
Olivia and Myrna have reputations for being very nice and sweet.
Do we assume that Olivia and Myrna found the good in them or are their own reputations not so sweet? I know opposites attract but such opposite sides of the spectrum! I wonder about Olivia b/c of her estrangement from her sister Joan.
- the motherload!!
- Can't wait to see my favorite Barbara Stanwyck movie "Sorry Wrong Number" tonight on TCM.
- What time???
- Okay, I see it's on TCM at 12:00AM. It's Miss Barbara all night!
Be sure to see / DVR the little known Stanwyck suspense melodrama with Errol Flynn playing the heavy:
"CRY WOLF." Tues morning on TCM, 10:45AM ET.
- CRY WOLF:
"Barbara Stanwyck stars in this mystery as Sandra Marshall, who turns up at an isolated mansion claiming to be the late owner's widow come for her share of the estate - but the current resident, scientist Errol Flynn, doesn't believe her story. As the mutually suspicious pair wait the confirmation of the Will, Sandra discovers the sinister boffin is harbouring dark secrets. With Geraldine Brooks."
- Oops, sorry I didn't answer R239, I didn't think anyone would be interested since this thread isn't necessarily about her films. "Cry Wolf" sounds very interesting and I'll have to checkit out.
- It's been ages since I saw "Cry Wolf," but I seem to recall that Flynn was acting as if he were walking through molasses. Was he working through massive hangovers? Stanwyck gives the film its energy.
- Flynn is droll and subdued as the villain (we think at the beginning), not the jovial character he usually played. Barbara owns the movie, but Flynn stands his ground. It was released in 1947, but I believe filmed in 1945.
- There was a really good article on Stanwyck in the New Yorker some time ago. You can read it in full at the link below:
[italic]Like many stars, she was loaned out on contract from one stable to another, but she made the switches work to her advantage, so that neither Columbia nor Warner Bros., for instance, both of whom worked her hard in the early years, was able to fence her in. In later years, she negotiated short contracts with M-G-M, R.K.O., Paramount, and Twentieth Century Fox. Nobody seemed to own her: not the studios, not her husbands, not Frank Capra or Preston Sturges, not Zeppo Marx, her agent in the thirties. She had self-possession, and that was ownership enough. Samuel Goldwyn tried for three other Sugarpusses—Ginger Rogers, Jean Arthur, and Carole Lombard—before settling on Stanwyck, yet the role now seems inconceivable in the hands of anyone else. That is the way with the brightest stars: as much by accident as by design, they pull toward them the scripts and directors most likely to enrich, even to mythologize, our sense of who they are. We feel as if we have some share in a great public secret. All in all, as Sugarpuss says, “Pretty good getting, for a gal that came up the hard way.”[/italic]
- Sue me but I actually think Ginger Rogers would have been sensational as Sugarpuss.
- Myrna Loy married 5 or 6 times. I'm not sure that speaks so well of how nice she was.
- [quote]Samuel Goldwyn tried for three other Sugarpusses—Ginger Rogers, Jean Arthur, and Carole Lombard—before settling on Stanwyck
I can see every one of those actresses as Sugarpuss & I think all of them would have been perfect. But Stanwyck was even better than perfect. Truly a great talent.
- Take it from me, Asta wasn't the only bitch on that set!
- Errol Flynn as a scientist?
- I downloaded 'Stella Dallas'!
- Her eventual independence in the 1930s from long-term studio contracts was admirable, it allowed to choose quality projects consistently, but it obviously cost her the Oscar without their support.
The same can be said for Cary Grant and Irene Dunne. Were there others? Rosalind Russell, perhaps?
- Rogers got all uppity after winning that undeserved Oscar for the boring KITTY FOYLE and balked at the idea of playing Sugarpuss. She only wanted to portray "ladies". Funny because she took on the role of a hooker in PRIMROSE PATH shortly after...
- [quote]Myrna Loy married 5 or 6 times. I'm not sure that speaks so well of how nice she was.
It takes 2 to make a marriage fail -- maybe she just wasn't very good at picking men.
She was born in 1905 & died in 1993 at the age of 88. She was married & divorced 4 times, between the ages of 31 & 55:
1936–1942 Arthur Hornblow, Jr., producer;
1942–1944 John Hertz, Jr. (Hertz Rent A Car family);
1946–1950 Gene Markey, producer and screenwriter;
1951–1960 Howland H. Sargeant, UNESCO delegate.
Sounds like she gave marriage the old college try for 24 years, then had the good sense to give it up for the rest of her life.
- Supposedly Myrna had an abortion that left her unable to conceive. I think that may have had an effect on her marriages. YMMV.
- R123, below is the link to what is my favorite movie slap ever. I especially love the way Joan bares her teeth like an angry dog when she slaps her. I imagine that right after
Crawford finished the take a crew member rushed over with an ice pack for her hand.
The victim is Lucy Marlowe. The only other thing I know her from is A STAR IS BORN. She probably lost her hearing in that ear, maybe suffered a concussion and ran from Hollywood, scarred for life.
- R256 i laughed my ass off, loooooolz
- Stanwyck remained wealthy until her death, thanks to shrewd investments and frugal living. She wasn't cheap, but she wasn't ostentatious either. Bette and Joan both flirted with financial disaster more than once during their careers. Joan saved her skin by marrying Alfred Steele, and Bette just starred in everything, including TV test patterns.
- I believe that Joan slept with more women than Barbara..., what do you think?
- I believe that Joan slept with Barbara for a while.
- I believe that too R260
- Joan and Barbara became friends in the early 1930s when they lived next door to each other in Brentwood. Stanwyck's husband Frank Fay was a mean drunk and took out his anger on Barbara. When Frank got into one of his drunken rages, Barbara would hop the fence separating the properties and take refuge at Joan's house. Frank Fay never dared go after Barbara and try to take her back home, because Joan hated him and he knew that if he set foot on Joan's property she would tear him a new one.
- Ginger also starred in ROXIE HART after her KITTY FOYLE Oscar so there goes your theory r253.
- Bette Davis should have won the Oscar that year for 'The Letter' instead of Ginger. Who the fuck remembers 'Kitty Foyle?' 'The Letter' has stood the test of time as a brilliant film.
- If that's true, r262, it was pretty cunty for Barbara to have been trashing Joan like that to this columnist.
- Maybe Barbara was missing sex at that time and she was going crazy.
- I agree R264, that was her greatest performance and best movie, IMO.
- "Joan and Barbara became friends in the early 1930s when they lived next door to each other in Brentwood"
That's how Lena Horne and Ava Gardner started. Only Ava was single and Lena was with her gay bartender/conductor husband. He waited on the girls as they lay in front of the fire 'talking'(said Lena).
- "Why would Tracy fuck around with a woman like JC if he wasn't straight?"
a) because he was bi
b) because he was a gay man with a Don Juan overcompensation
c) because he was obsessed with movie goddesses like so many gay men and didn't know when to say when
I vote for a)
- R263 there WAS no theory. I said that Ginger turned down the role, yet played a hooker in PRIMROSE PATH. And yes, ROXIE HART as well. My point is I don't understand why'd she turn down BALL OF FIRE for the reasons she said, but then take similar roles in two other films.
- I think Spencer was definitely bi. A married man who sleeps with a great many men, has a long term mistress, as well as many other women...... it seems the only logical explanation.
- "has a long term mistress"
WHO? You certainly don't think he and Hepburn fucked.
- Whoever is trying to talk shit about Myrna Loy should read her book.
- I agree with R273. BEING AND BECOMING (?) is a great read. Also the pictures are phenomenal. Loy never receives her due as one of the great cinema beauties because she never captitalized on it, but the photos from her early career are breathtaking.
- Question for those who've read Myrna's book - why did they change her last name to "Loy"? All Wikipedia says is that Warner Brothers changed it when they signed her to a contract. (She was born Myrna Adele Williams.)
I would think that with an unusual first name, Hollywood would have liked backing it up with a solid, common name like "Williams". Was it because they signed her specifically to play Asian and native-girl parts, so they wanted something odd and exotic sounding?
- I think that's the reason, R275.
Though I never thought there was anything particularly exotic about her face.
- Where did the name Loy come from?
Also, in spite of today's tastes, Myrna was actually a pretty ordinary name in the early part of the 20th century, so Williams might not have scintillated as a last name.
- I'm really enjoying the Stanwyck month on TCM. There are two films they're not showing though which I'd love to see again. One is THE FILE ON THELMA JORDON, which they've shown before and the other is NO MAN OF HER OWN which I don't think they've shown before. The latter is a noirish melodrama based on a Cornell Woolrich story and was recently remade into the horrible Ricki Lake comedic vehicle, MRS. WINTERBOURNE.
- One of the funniest pre-code Stanwyck films: Baby Face (1933), about a woman who sleeps her way to the top with NYC business guys.
R268, that's useless unless you state the neighborhood the two moved into: Nichols Canyon.
- r275, the group Myrna surrounded herself with during the beginning of her career thought Williams too plain. She says a Russian writer she once knew suddenly said "Myrna Loy" one day. Myrna was never convinced all the way but eventually went with it.
- [quote]The best part of the Shirley/Barbara phone chat is when Barbara reveals that Joan was fucking Spencer Tracy while she was still married to Franchot Tone.
Agree, that was the most fascinating part of the tape. But are we sure she said Spencer Tracy? It was hard to make out.
- She was fucking Tracy when they shot MANNEQUIN together in 1937, R281. A very underrated Crawfrord performance by the way.
- Besides, even if they weren't in the same picture, Crawford and Tracy spent about 20 years together on the Metro lot. It was a big lot, but still....
Norma Shearer, Queen of the lot
- Myrna Loy was one of the underrated actresses of the Golden Age of Hollywood. She's delish in the Thin Man movies.
- What, r283? Crawford was let go in the early 1940s.
- But didn't Joan arrive at Metro in 1926?
So she was there for about 18 years.
Certainly more than enough time to have an affair with Spencer Tracy even when they weren't starring in Mannequin together, which was my point.
- Spencer Tracy and Joan did have an affair when they worked on 'Mannequin,' it's been documented in several sources. Tracy and his wife by that time apparently only had a marriage in name only, but since they were devout Catholics they didn't get divorced. Tracy didn't even meet Hepburn until 1941.
- Crawford and Clark Gable also had a long on-again off-again affair.
- [quote]One of the funniest pre-code Stanwyck films: Baby Face (1933), about a woman who sleeps her way to the top with NYC business guys.
Loved that movie. Before she worked her way up to the business men, she fucks a security guard on the train to NYC (to avoid getting booted off). It was kind of hot.
- Plus, Barbara travels with her BLACK girlfriend in the movie! And it's 1933. Guess the Code stopped that stuff.
- Lilly's friendship with Chico in BABY FACE is the only good relationship she has in the movie. Chico is the only character to whom she is loyal, tacked on happy ending notwithstanding. I've seen a couple of different endings to that film.
- r291, did you ever see a cut where the film *should* have ended in the ambulance?
- R292, the first ending i saw was an epilogue where someone speaks of her getting back together with George Brent's character and then it cuts to a shanty where I guess they now live, broke and in love. I watched it recently and saw the ending in the ambulance.
- One of Joan's many appearances on What's My Line?
This one includes the surprise appearance of her twin rabbits....I mean, daughters.
John Charles Daly
- Nice John
- Clifton Webb called Barbara his "favorite American lesbian.".
I know, MARY!!
- You believe that Stanwyck had ever fall in love with a woman?
- You know, i know better
- Joan Crawford watches as Milton Berle ties a ribbon around Christina Crawford
- Kirk Douglas and Pier Angeli with Joan Crawford
(Google Pier Angeli and James Dean guys...)
- Barbara Stanwyck with Loretta Young
- Barbara Stanwyck and Sophia Loren
Look at this photo again guys. There is Barbara in the background.
- Joan Crawford/son Christopher/daughter Christina
- Joan Crawford and Ann Blyth
Joan seemed to love to have that position with women. Hands over them...LOL!
- Joan Crawford with Mel Dinelli and Mona Freedman
The hands again...
- Joan Crawford with Mary Martin
Joan behaved like a tiger...God.
All that love and back stabbing...whoa!
- Joan is trying to please some of her female fans...
- Didn't Joan have affairs with women?
- R309 she had...
Academy Awards / Oscars Gregory Peck, Joan Crawford, Patty Duke and Ed Begley 1953
Lol, look the direction of Joan's stare...
- God that is quite shocking if you think that Olivia was a friend of Bette Davis...Joan is hugging Olivia de Havilland in the photo below
- Joan Crawford learns Judo from Bruce Tegner for "The Caretaker" 1963
- r311, there are cameras constantly flashing. I doubt they want to show any drama in public. Unlike today...
- R313, lol, you are so goddamn right...
- Light me up baby!
I miss seeing movie stars smoking like chimneys in public.
- A rare photo of Bette Davis and Joan Crawford together in the 1940s. Bette looks like she wants to smack the shit out of her.
- Whoa guys!
- Joan, Joan and Joan! What about me? I deserve as much room in your thread as your Joan!
- Of all of them, Loretta Young aged the best.
- R319 traitor!
- I'm talking about when they were all in their 70s!
SHEER HEART ATTACK
- : Bette Davis isn't even LOOKING at Crawford. Pipe down, drama queen!
- By the way i love that photo R316.
It's rare, and i confess that this is the first time i see it.
- Yes, R316, thanks I've never seen that photo before either. I'd like to know the year and occasion. Technically, they did a movie together in 1944 (Hollywood Canteen), but were never in a scene together. And that pic looks like it's maybe 1946/7 (guessing by hairstyles).
- The only thing that Bette and Joan could ever agree on was that Loretta Young was a cunt.
- BTW, if you have never read "Bette and Joan: The Divine Feud" by Shaun Considine I highly recommend it. It's a dual bio of Davis and Crawford and has the definitive story of their hatred for one another - it's filled with hilariously bitchy quotes from both Joan and Bette. It's a fantastically fun read.
- All of Barbara's Xmas movies were on TCM this month. I thoroughly enjoyed myself. I think "Remember the Night" with Fred MacMurray is my favorite.
- Joan Crawford in her first color film, Torch Song (1953)
- Joan we are real stars!
Look how many posted for us you old cow!
- Loretta Young was gorgeous and Davis and Crawford looked like alcohol soaked, hags.
- Barbara with Loretta Young. Was Loretta Young swinging both ways?
- Joan on her kinky couch
- Loretta Young: I was what i was, meaning exquisite i suppose more or less. I kissed passionately both women and men but in a different way.
- I maybe have some similarities with Loretta Young...omg!
- Robert Taylor, Barbara Stanwyck and Clark Gable, 1939.
- Joan Crawford, Barbara Stanwyck, James Stewart and Henry Fonda on the set for 'The Gorgeous Hussy' directed by Joseph L. Mankiewicz, 1936.
- Portrait of Barbara Stanwyck, 1930's.
- I'm kind of dim on Robert Taylor (real name: Spangler Arlington Brugh) and Barbara Stanwyck (real name: Ruby Stevens). I don't know a whole lot about either one. But I heard the rumors, the rumors that they were both gay and had a "lavender" marriage. Was there any truth to that? After they divorced, Taylor remarried and had two children. Stanwyck never married again.
Taylor, a heavy smoker, died at age 57 from lung cancer. Stanwyck made a spectacle of herself at his funeral. She showed up in a bright yellow dress and at some point started sobbing hysterically. She really stole the show from his widow. Was she really that broken up about his death? They'd been divorced for years; both had moved on long before. Was she putting on an act to make it seem like he was the great love of her life, to make it seem like she was NOT gay? I don't know. But her behavior in that instance did seem very strange.
- R339 who knows...?
Joan Crawford is fixing Christina's hair
Christina scares me in this photo
- Rathbone with Judy Garland, Joan Crawford, and Reginald Gardiner
- No words needed
- Joan Crawford said 1962's Best Supporting Actress 'twas Patty Duke
- R333, Look again. That is Lindsay Lohan.
Thanks for the photo.
- Loool R344!
Joan in a more natural pose this time
- # 322's pic is the shot from 1977 that Crawford was horrified by - she said " If that's really how I look, then they'll never see me again " . She never made an official 'public appearance' after that.
- Oh John Springer really? She was old then and some people age in a rough way but that doesn't decrease their value. I'm sorry that Joan took it so bad. Joan!
- Barbara didn't need the alimony she was awarded from Robert Taylor, but demanded he pay it.
After his death, his widow Ursula still sent the check each month signed "Mrs. Robert Taylor" neatly at the bottom
- A shot of her
- R349 this quote is from 'The Lady Eve'
- Gregory Peck wins Best Actor Oscar for 'To Kill a Mockingbird'.
Lol. Look at the direction of Joan's eyes! Again, she is looking at a woman, Sophia loren this time!
- I'll never get tired of Joan Crawford gossip/speculation/movies.
- In #352's pic, it fascinates me that the 60 something Joan, is showing more cleavage than the amazing 28 year old Sophia - who was / is world renowned
for her chest. Joan had a pair of brass balls under that gown.
- Speaking of brass balls, I love that Joan posed with the '63 Oscar winners in their group shot, clutching Anne Bancroft's Oscar as if it were hers. It's like she muscled her way into the photo shoot and dared anyone to tell her otherwise. If any contemporary star did this, I would think "what an asshole, that's so tacky!" but with Joan, I think it's kind of charming and I love that she did it.
Oscar Night '63 was Joan's big "Fuck you, CUNT!" to Bette Davis, who treated her terribly on the set of Baby Jane. Bette lost the Oscar that night and was backstage fuming, but of course anybody reading this thread already knows that.
Not an eldergay, I'm 33 and love Joan
- 14 pages in one month? Really?
- Somehow, after reading this entire thread, I don't think either Stanwyck or Robert Taylor were gay or even bi.
Love that photo upthread of them with Gable in golfing togs! All three look so handsome. Thanks for posting!
- Yes, r357, all the info you will ever need is in a Datalounge thread.
- R355 i liked your remark and the photo you posted.
- I love both Bette & Joan. They were hardworking career women. The only Diva that I feel was grander than both of them, was Marlene Dietrich....especially in her live shows in the 60's and early 70's. She was all the rage at Hollywood parties when she first arrived in Hollywood. No one did glamour like Dietrich. She was refined and had a great deal of class (as did Miss Katherine Hepburn.) Can someone start a thread on Marlene & her influence as a Hollywood Star & Legend?
Sorry to jump thread...
- How about searching?
- We never talk about Jean Arthur. Or Carole Lombard. Or even Alice Faye.
- Speaking of golden age divas, I was watching TCM today and "None But the Lonely Heart" (1944) came on--it was one of Cary Grant's few forays away from the debonair character he perfected--he played a working-class Cockney in London (he got an Oscar nomination for it). Anyway, right under the title, it listed (on her own title card) "Miss Ethel Barrymore." I miss those days--as close as we Americans could come to "Dame Maggie Smith" (though I notice that the British don't use those titles in film credits or onstage, which seems very classy and professional). Was Barbara Stanwyck ever "Miss Barbara Stanwyck"?
- Actually r363, I wish the British dames DID use their titles in their billing, the way Dame May Whitty used to do. It would be more glamorous!
- "Was Barbara Stanwyck ever "Miss Barbara Stanwyck"?"
Only on "The Big Valley."
- What the he'll is wrong with that ?
- You'll never forget me
- "Baby Jane" is back on TCM this Wednesday, ladies.
- R368 kisses on your fuckingly sweet cheeeeeks!
- Joan Crawford dedicates ' I'll Put A Spell On You' to all Dataloungers.
- Joan with Barbara and some people between them...
- Well, r371 the handsome profile on our left would be Barbara's hubby and Joan's Metro colleagur Bob Taylor.
They all seem to be dressed for some cowboy-themed party.
- So what do you imply by sending those photos of mine with Joan? You can't prove anything about my love life, sugar. I'm like a cat. I know how to slip away. I love my privacy.
- R372, forgive me now i noticed your reply.
And yeah...i also think that the man you mentioned is indeed Robert Taylor. And yes, it seems like they are in a certain kind of a party ~~~~~~~~
- I think the other guy in that pic at r371 is Joan's husband for a short time, Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
Speaking of DF Jr., did you know that he was photographed jerking off in the background as some well known high society dame gave another guy a blowjob? See link.
- R375 wow...and no personally i didn't know.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing.
- That's not Doug Jr. in the photo. Joan was through with him long before that photo was taken, which appears to be around 1936 or so.
But it might be Husband #2 Franchot Tone or co-star Robert Young.
- R372, Barbara was a real-life cowgal -- she rode and had a ranch. Quite something for a Brooklyn girl, but Babs was an athlete. "Hubby" Bobby, not so much.
- She was evicted from there in 1990 for unpaid rent and placed in the nursing home where three years later, penniless and alone, she suffered a fall in her bathroom that broke her neck, killing her.
- Who you talking about, R379?
- The website at the link may have been posted here before, but just in case some never saw it and have a love for "old" Hollywood, check out all the pics. Lots of Crawford and Stanwyk and their pals and lovers.
One of the commenters seems to have been personally involved with lots of them at one time. Goes by the name of "Vecchiolarry.'
- Yes that poster pretty much said Irene Dunne was the worst. Ice... Queen.
- Guys, do you remember what happens in the end of 'Sudden Fear' with Crawford? I missed the end and i wonder if someone of you could be kind enough and tell me what happened.
Myra(Joan Crawford) finally takes her revenge or something goes wrong? What becomes of Lester(Jack Palance) and of Irene(Gloria Grahame)? Myra wins or they win?
- No one pronounced that word "lousy" quite like Stanwyck.
- R380, the quote is from the NY Times article linked at R375, about the scandalous Duchess of Argyll.
- Joan Crawford offers a flower to her Above Suspicion director, Richard Thorpe
- Joan Crawford signs copies of her autobiography A Portrait of Joan between scenes of 'What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?'
- While making 'Torch Song', Joan Crawford plays with her beloved Cliquot
- R378, Robert Taylor loved the outdoors. He was quite like Clark Gable who would rather be fishing or camping than at a Hollywood party.
- Hmmm 390, interesting, alright. :)
Joan Crawford and her dogs during the filming of 'Female on the Beach'
- R339, from all accounts Babs wanted Bob back, bad. I've heard all the rumours but I don't believe theirs was a "lavender marriage".
That Crawford woman!
- "from all accounts Babs wanted Bob back, bad."
LOL. WHAT accounts? Your imagination?
- Joan Crawford and Claudette Colbert, 1930s
- Barbara is holding Gary Cooper's hand...
- Joan Crawford, still the attention whore.
Now she wants you to like her on Facebook! That bitch!
- R396, if you think that's holding someone's hand, I feel sorry for your love life.
- Stanwyck and Crawford in love?
When and where...?
- You care? I see...
- Norma Shearer and Joan Crawford at a Hollywood party, 1959,
- Thanks for posting - never seen that. Great photo. Could that have been the party where a drunk Crawford went nuts, and began insulting people?
- THE party? How about WHICH party, r402?
- Joan looking completely bombed at a party with Lassie.
- R401, I thought I once read that Joan HATED Norma! Of course for the public she would never show any animosity but I just find it amusing how much those actors put up with when cameras were snapping. Nowadays we have Mariah vs Nicki.
In the words of Don Lockwood "...dignity. Always dignity."
- The photo of Joan with Norma is from 1959. That's almost 20 years after Norma retired so she was no longer a professional threat to Joan. Why not be nice?
- Interesting to see all these photos of the Hollywood Golden Age divas in pairs at various parties and photo-os over so many decades. Even women who never co-starred together or were even working at the same studio.
But the one you NEVER see with any other female stars of her same stature is Kate Hepburn. I know she wasn't much of a socializer in Hollywood but still, you'd think she never even met Crawford, Davis, Stanwyck, Colbert, Russell, Dunne or any of the others.
George Cukor must have banned any cameras at his Sunday afternoon pool parties.
- Hepburn and Dietrich in the 1930s. I posted this on the Marlene thread too.
- R406, you have a valid point but does Joan strike you as someone who didn't hold grudges even many decades later? Just sayin'.
I wonder if anyone ever knew the "real" Joan? I guess Stanwyck, no?
- Who the hell is r379 talking about? Irene Dunne did live at The Actor's Fund Home at the end, but she was far from penniless. i thought she married a wealthy doctor and ran charities that gave money away?
- I would dearly love to know what Crawford and Shearer were thinking at that affair in 1959. Shearer looks happier in that picture but who knows? Thalberg left her well off but she didn't dare navigate a film career without him. Perhaps it's just as well we never saw her descend to Marmee or Aunt So-and-So type roles. No one ever made Shearer wait for her close-ups.
Crawford kept herself in demand but she lived beyond her means. She worked because she had to right through her post-Steele Pepsi days, My Way of Life, Night Gallery, Trog and all. My guess is that Shearer did not envy Crawford's career as much as she enjoyed her own retirement.
- My impression of Crawford has always been that she had a passion to keep working because she enjoyed the spotlight and genuinely loved the work. Of course, she may have needed the cash, as well.
I always found actresses like Shearer, Alice Faye, Deanna Durbin, Ruby Keeler and even Garbo more unusual. That they could quit movie-making cold turkey after years of fame and adulation and never look back, except for Keeler and Faye's much later comebacks.
- [quote]My impression of Crawford has always been that she had a passion to keep working because she enjoyed the spotlight and genuinely loved the work. Of course, she may have needed the cash, as well.
I always thought Joan genuinely loved acting (as in the business) and that's why she kept working even in those schlocky B movies.
I think Stanwyck was the same unlike Davis who needed the money.
It's telling that after Thalberg died Shearer just sort of gave up acting as though she only did it because she could and had no passion about her career or it's direction unlike Joan who fought for every role she got and threw herself into each of them.
- [quote]She worked because she had to right through her post-Steele Pepsi days, My Way of Life, Night Gallery, Trog and all. My guess is that Shearer did not envy Crawford's career as much as she enjoyed her own retirement.
She was very wealthy during her Pepsi days and she lived that way too, if she wanted anything she just had the company pick up the tab.
It was an some other thread but some publisher wrote an autobiography and Crawford took up two whole chapters.
He came to the conclusion she only agreed to do the book for the all expenses paid publicity tour in her contract but I think she did it more so as a way of staying in the spotlight whilst her acting career was pretty much dead.
- Did Alfred Steele not leave a huge inheritance to Joan when he died?
I know Pepsi didn't want Joan meddling in the business and obviously didn't want to continue paying her expenses, but wasn't Joan well-off anyway because of Steele's will?
- Yes, R394. She was insanely jealous of the women he cheated on her with during their marriage and his second wife Ursula. Try reading something other than Kenneth Anger and Darwin Porter next time, 'kay?
- Silly, gay boy. Being jealous (if true), does not mean Barbara wanted Robert back. Try getting out of the house more often, K???
- Joan bankrupted poor Al Steele and probably brought on his heart attack with her ridiculous spending on the Fifth Avenue apartment. He wasn't able to leave anything to anybody.
- Joan was quite well-off in her later years. When she died she was worth 3 million dollars, which doesn't sound like much these days but in the 1970s that was quite a substantial amount of money. $3M back then was worth a lot more than it is today.
- R204, lol. Wtf!
R202(Ann Blyth)i'm glad that you enjoyed that photo. Really, Joan got drunk and began insulting people at a party? Lol, that would be scary, i guess. I bet in a fight she could be very abusive. Hehe
- * R404
- R410, see R386 -- nothing to do with Irene Dunne.
- Jealous, bitches?
Joan, Queen of Everything
- Wow, what a nice and rare photo R423. Oh Joan, i mean it you are great in it!
- There are a couple of infamous dinner party episodes with Joan. I think the one that involved Cathy Douglas is related way upthread right here.
Another one was related by Arlene Dahl who was witness to the event but now I can't remember what young actress was the target of Joan's stings. Did I read about it on this thread? Any body?
- Joan's hairstyle/wig looks nice in R423's link. Far better than some of the styles she had in her later years.
- [quote]He wasn't able to leave anything to anybody.
"Bitch of a bearing wall" removal isn't cheap.
- I think we can surmise Joan lived lavishly and didn't have to worry about money.
Unlike Davis who was taking any acting job that came her way just to support all she had to.
Joan's participation in all her later projects was optional, she did them because she liked being in the spotlight and that was all that was being offered to her.
- I'm not a fan of K. Hepburn and haven't seem any of her later movies apart from "Rooster Cogburn" (in which she's dreadful) but just by judging her IMDb she seems to have a certain amount of quality control.
Were most of her projects reasonably reputable?
- R429, you'll have to define what you mean by "reputable". She certainly never made a "disreputable" movie, regardless of whether you (or critics) enjoyed it.
- By disreputable I mean low budget B-movies like "Trog" as opposed to a more acclaimed piece such as "Mildred Pierce".
- I'm a singer/musician and I'd give anything to have an agent who would hustle jobs for me. I just don't have the balls to do it myself. Unfortunately agents aren't really representing musos, at least in my area.
- What does that have to do with Crawford or Stanwyck, R432?
- ah fuck it!
- The only "disreputable" film I can remember that Hepburn made was one of her very last, something with a weird title that costarred Nick Nolte. It was badly reviewed and pulled from the theaters very quickly.
She also did what amounted to a vaseline-lensed cameo playing Warren Beatty's mother in some wretched remake....was it called Love Story? Actually, Warren's lenses may have been smeared with more vaseline than Kate's in that one.
But even when she did TV movies in her later years, they were with A-list directors, writers and costars like Laurence Olivier.
Kate never resorted to campy horror films, like Joan, Bette and Tallulah.
- I've been meaning to ask for the longest time:
What the hell are Stanwyck and that reporter Shirley staring at so lovingly in OP's photo? It appears to be nothing more than a cabinet of old china, yet they're eyeing it like it's full of unwon Oscars.
- Katharine Hepburn was independently wealthy and never had to take roles in shit movies to pay the bills. She also, like Greta Garbo, never had kids or other relatives to support.
Bette Davis paid alimony to her ex-husbands, and supported her mother and sister for their entire lives as well as her lazy spoiled daughter BD until BD was nearly 40 and became estranged from her. Bette really didn't have much money left for herself after she paid the bills for everyone else. I've read several bios of Davis and they all said that she really didn't live lavishly in her private life, her lifestyle was more upper-middle class than rich. If she hadn't had all those people to support, she would have been quite wealthy.
Threads like these are why I love Datalounge!
- Didn't Bette also have an adopted daughter who had to be institutionalized all of her life? That must have cost money (and heartache) as well.
Hepburn lived in the same eastside Manhattan townhouse her entire adult life and weekended at the old family house on the Connecticut shore.
- Joan goes to the grocery store with little Missy in a 1969 Pepsi promotional film. Hilarious! Check out Joan's stern look of disapproval at the lobster tank.
- Whatever happened to Bette's daughter Margot- is she still living? Was it known to the public at the time that she was mentally disabled?
- Did Joan actually want kids or were they just to help her image, I can't help think that she got Christina just to impress L.B. Mayer because he had a mother fetish.
- r440 Bette's adopted daughter Margot is apparently still alive and in a group home in the Northeast. I think Bette's adopted son Michael, who is an attorney in Boston, oversees her care. Bette's bio daughter, that bitch BD Hyman, runs some kind of fundie church in Virginia and she's just as crazy as ever.
- [quote]that bitch BD Hyman, runs some kind of fundie church in Virginia
She always had that white trash look to her.
- "atharine Hepburn was independently wealthy and never had to take roles in shit movies to pay the bills"
Oh yeah? How do you explain a rotten TV movie Hepburn made with, drum roll, RYAN O'NEAL??? It was called The Man Upstairs.
- Joan Crawford and Olivia de Havilland at the Academy Awards!
- They look like mother and daughter in that pic, R445.
- Hehehe R446, indeed!
Joan wearing fur, 1950s
- Joan Crawford puts on her face, 1953.
- Joan Crawford & Judy Garland, 1940s.
- Joan with Greer Garson and Robert Taylor
- Norma Shearer & Joan Crawford...
- Joan Crawford at Waikiki.
- Here’s Joan relaxing on the set of 'Torch Song'
- Joan Crawford & Judy Garland, 1940s.
- 1959, Joan Crawford reading her fan mail.
- Thank you for the pics, R445! I've never seen them before and they're such finds.
- [quote]I think we can surmise Joan lived lavishly and didn't have to worry about money.
She left behind a relatively modest estate of about $2 million. Cathy and Cindy, the daughters she kept in the will, got only $77,500 apiece.
- You are very sweet R456, you welcome. )
I also feel gratitude for the people who posted them, so i could post them in here. It's nice resting your eyes upon them, isn't it? I like photos and people in them.
- Joan Crawford, Elizabeth Taylor & two poodles
- STOP it with these damned pictures!
- Hahaha R460...take just one more with Joan sugar!
- I had no idea that Joan had freckles. I love freckles in women. I mean some women are very sexy and cute with them and Joan falls in this category as i can see.
- Joan was VERY freckly, which she hated. There are pics that show her with freckles all over her body.
- R463, really i had no idea. She shouldn't hate her freckles though. Joan! They were cute on you.
- Truly stunning photo of Joan
- Joan Crawford reading to her poodle.
- LENA counldn't deal with her freckles either. But she DID *deal* with Joanie, if you know what I mean.
- RE 457 Ironic, isn't it, that the 2 daughters , who were in Joan's will, ended up with just over $ 75 k each, while Christina ended up with millions, between the book, & movie.....and , she smeared her mother's name, and rep , forever. Talk about revenge is sweet.
- R467, you imply that they had an affair? I like that thought...
- The more I look at those photos, the more I see an aging Lindsay Lohan. Esp. with the freckles.
- Agree, r470. Maybe Lifetime will do a movie on Joan.
- It's the final countdown!
- I read that during 'Sudden Fear' Jack Palance stop replying to the 'good mornings' of Joan and was not polite with her. During the shooting of that film Joan was not only dissatisfied with the behaviour of her co-stars, but she also was in the middle of a breakdown, because she took her role very serioulsy and she got affected emotionally. When they ask Jack Palance why he treated Joan that way, he replied that he thought that her manners were fake and insincere and that her politeness was something condenscending. Actually, he and Gloria Grahame began an affair while they were doing 'Sudden Fear' and it is said that the truth reason of Palance's negativity towards Joan was Gloria's feelings for Joan. Gloria didn't get along with Joan and didn't like her and it is implied that maybe Grahame turned Palance against Crawford.
- I will never get tired of Joan Crawford gossip.
- In the end, Crawford's problem was that she was a completely self-made construction, with all her attention focused on the exterior.
Her issues with her mother's man, her running around and having sex with guys all over the place, her virtual prostitution, her trashy drive, her dishonesty, her early public drunkenness and car wrecks, her wildness and lack of discipline until Louis B. Mayer gave her "The Talk," all showed how her considerable energies stemmed from familial unhappiness and insecurity.
Then, when she decided to be A MAJOR, CLASSY STAR with no support from the studio, she stuck to Douglas Fairbanks like cheese on a burger. She forced Mary Pickford to accept it, and designed her behavior accordingly. Fairbanks was just a kid and she was the older sex goddess.
And then she married Franchot Tone just for the career value, and shat on him when she achieved her ends.
The rest is just a story of selective loyalty (not just with Billy Haines but with her long-term fuck buddy Clark Gable) marred by constant conniving to keep on top and in the eye and never to lose her status, even in having a driver and big car to deliver her to her crap, low-end movies.
And the alcoholism never went away, because all along she was just - in her own mind - the phony trash that had to keep the grift going or she'd lose everything.
- so lousy, so nasty, so bitter...!
- Joan had an affair with Fairbanks while he was married to Pickford?
- R475, could you clarify your post for us, did she stick to Fairbanks or Fairbanks Jr.
- An ad with Barbara
- Another one with Mrs Stanwyck
- Barbara Stanwyck had a certain sex appeal when she was younger, hadn't she?