The other day at lunch (not a "gay" place at all), the guy seated next to me at the bar struck up a conversation, that quickly escalated to what would have been a very successful first date. A couple of times he made kind of a point of mentioning his interest in women (mentioning ex-girlfriends, and how good looking one of them is), which I took as possibly a signal that he was lonely and liked chatting, but not to expect much more. The ending was quite awkward, as was almost unavoidable I suppose. I'll add that he and I are both fairly average looking, and he seemed to have a mild case of cerebral palsy, or some similar condition.
I would very MUCH liked to have dated him, but am left confused as to what happened? The conversation became a bit ... personal (not sexual) rather quickly, which seemed fine by both of us though. Having never BEEN a straight guy, I don't know what "boundaries" are "normal" for them. Is there something I missed in thinking about the incident that would help confirm his level of ... interest?
Thank in advance for reading!
That's happened to me, too, but I live in the South where it's hard to tell if someone is being nice, or if someone is kind of flirting. I always make it a point to somehow mention that I'm gay. When you're about to part, ask him if he'd like to get together again. If he says yes, well, that's your answer.
I know it's a long shot, but why not post something in craigslist missed connections?
Thanks for the feedback. If I run across him in the neighborhood, I'll certainly try to nail down his sexuality better. I have had chats with friendly heterosexuals before, but this one, as I said, REALLY felt more like a date!
OP, do you have any way to contact him again? I would try a "missed connections" ad on craigslist.
It is really hard to connect with people. Even if you wind up just friends, that would be enough.
[quote]Having never BEEN a straight guy, I don't know what "boundaries" are "normal" for them.
That's the problem, OP: penised persons *have* no boundaries, even when we womon clearly state ours. You should consider yourself very lucky to have escaped the place before what was undoubtedly scheduled to happen next: you, bent over the toilet in the bathroom stall, getting hateraped within an inch of your life! Thank Goddess you got out of there.
OP, he may be an "aspie," who doesn't know when to not talk at people.
Or, perhaps, he's looking for a gay male nurse/companion/caregiver type.
Either way, He pays for dinner.
There is no such thing as an average looking retard.
He could just be a boozehound with diarrhea mouth.
Since you met in a bar, I'm guessing you both like to drink. No one goes to bars anymore, or smokes, or eats at fast food joints on the West Coast, so I'm guessing you're in the midwest somewhere.
If that's the case than he may be considered normal and a good catch.
He thought you were a rentboy.
One less Korean in America. They're homophobes, ya know. Good chopping riddance.
It's said tha two rinks away from sleeping with another chick but how many drinks does it take for a straight dude?
R7 -- it wasn't a "bar" as in bar-and-grill, but a (somewhat) upscale, yuppie-ish place if anything. He had three drinks while I was there, though the second one he didn't drink most of - he had ordered a fourth one just as I was leaving. I confess I ordered a second beer because chatting was going so well.
R6 -- aren't you something special! As it happens, I LIKE guys who might not be thought of as particularly good looking by most.
R4 -- I'm assuming you are a horrid troll.
OP, he sees you all the time in the neighborhood and has decided you're gay bestfriend material. I think they call it a "Wingman".
Let him know he needs to lose 20 pounds if he ever wants to make it in Homoland and you'd be happy to help him out.
If he's gay, he thinks he needs to lose 20 pounds and he'll take you up on the offer.
If he's straight, he'll look at you funny and then laugh. That's when you laugh as well. Follow it up by asking him if he needs help meeting lonely alcoholic women.
Wallah! You have a new straight friend!
Invite him over to watch TV and accidentally slip some gay porn in and see how he reacts.
quote]couple of times he made kind of a point of mentioning his interest in women (mentioning ex-girlfriends, and how good looking one of them is), which I took as possibly a signal that he was lonely and liked chatting, but not to expect much more.
Well, duh, OP. WHY would he make a point of mentioning ex-GIRLfriends if he wanted to convey an interest in you? Sure, he could be bi, or newly out of the closet, but if that's the case, and he wanted you to get the message he was interested, he would have made a point of letting you know he likes men, too.
R9, although I am sure it is the least of your problems, you seem to be in the wrong thread.
Ok gays, here's where a semi-straight woman's point of view comes in handy. I've noticed some of my gay guy friends, especially the ones who are not "players", have an even harder time reading men's signals than my average girlfriends do, and I thought they were clueless. I always chalked it up to women who grew up without brothers, which I had two, and I feel like I have some insight into men because of it, and also having had relationships myself and nursed many, many girlfriends through probably hundreds of relationships with men.
But I recently watched a whole homo relationship pan out from beginning to end, as I am friends with both guys. The one guy, let's call him Friend A, was absolutely, positively clueless about the unspoken, unwritten signals my other male friend, let's call him Friend B, was sending. It was weird to me, because I felt like the way Friend B was acting was like "Guy 101." Not calling or answering texts, only wanting some when he was drunk, never giving any sign that he was into friend A.
Friend B is a very masculine, straight acting dude, and is in fact the only gay redneck I've ever met, and he acts just like your typical straight male, excepts he lives for cock. Friend A acts more bottomy and likes Madonna and Lady Gaga, while friend B would rather shoot himself or someone else in the head than listen to pop music. Friend B hooked up a few times with Friend A, and Friend A was practically filling out the wedding registry at the local department store, while Friend B barely thought twice about the encounter.
I didn't step in to offer any advice to Friend A because I thought, surely, friend A will know that friend B is looking at this as a booty call, and nothing more. But then I realized, I take for granted things that girls/women learn about the ways of males from teen years, while gay guys have to generally wait a while to get out into the dating world.
This is why I think banishing straight women from DL really does you all a disservice. We know one thing, dick, and that's something we all have in common.
Anyway, bottom line, if a man is interested in you, you will know. Period, end of story, no equivocation. If he is not into you, he will not pursue you. Easy as that. When it's two men, same thing. If that guy had been interested, OP, he would have made sure you had his number. Sorry to tell you that, but it's better to find out right off the bat than to hold out hope. The book "He's Just Not That Into You," pretty much nailed it. Men are the easiest creatures in the world to read, they say what they mean, and mean what they say. I watched my brothers my whole life and dated and fucked many a guy, and that is a general law of the y chromosome that holds true whether you like a dick up your ass or not.
OP, don't be ashamed to say you're in the midwest, or Colorado.
I do hope you meet someone nice even if this doesn't take off, but hey, it just might!
I too prefer those with a less-classical beauty.
1. If he orders multiples drinks than he has expendable income, or has no children, or perhaps neglects other essentials just to go out and drink in a "yuppie" place.
2. You probably are an obvious gay, we all are, even the most delusional amongst us understand this deep down.
3. Cerebal Palsy does affect the brain, so expect some irrational behavior on occasion.
[quote]Anyway, bottom line, if a man is interested in you, you will know. Period, end of story, no equivocation. If he is not into you, he will not pursue you
I got the same advice years ago from a gay guy. You're both right.
R15 -- men can be socially awkward, and don't always say what they're thinking, but I do appreciate your input.
R16 -- he mentioned he makes a fair amount of money (though a high school dropout), and yes, I think he should've been able to figure out I was gay. I am in the Pacific Northwest.
isn't the chill of those Oregon morns hard on someone with Cystic fibrosis?
R17 -- okay, but I was definitely into him but didn't do any pursuing. I'm not so sure that issue holds when it isn't explicitly known that the other guy is gay?
I have somewhat low self-esteem, and am shy, so someone COULD be interested, but I kinda need to be hit on the head about it, even at a "gay" place or event.
are you an "aspie"?
OP, from a 42 year old guy who has been on all sides of this equation, please listen to r16. This kind of complexity never leads to what you want. Whether a guy can't or won't show his interest does not matter. You only set yourself up for pain trying to figure out the nuances. Stop this now and you may find someone who loves you. The reason you pursue complexity is because you are either afraid of something real or fearful that you won't ever find it.
Well, if he has a disability, like you say- Caustic Billiousness, than I admire his tenacity and ability to make a good living.
What does he drink?
What do you drink?
You can tell a lot about a man by what he drinks.
Also OP, what sign are you?
R21 -- no I am not an Aspie, not at all.
R22 -- I see your point, but was hoping for input on how not to miss such signals; I don't feel he would be Mr. Right at all, and not losing any sleep of a missed opportunity.
I'm beginning to suspect Jaime is back.
R23 - I am a Libra, and had two draft beers. He had a fru fruish looking pink drink (the one that he didn't finish) and I believe a mojito as well. I forget what he was ordering as I was getting ready to leave; I don't know what sign he was, just that he was part Polish and part Gypsy (Roma) ... he said.
Sorry, OP. Your mystery man was just killing time before our date.
Here's how you don't "miss such signals": you pay attention. When you are caught up in your head rationalizing and interpreting and fantasizing, you miss (or discount) what is happening. If he was interested and you were attuned to what was really happening, it would have happened.
OP, YOU are the one who seems kind of unhealthy about this. If this guy talked of his ex-girlfriend(s) and how attractive some woman was, then that is his way of telling you he is straight. Or into women. At least sometimes (if you go down the "bisexual" road). But no matter what, he gave you some mixed signals, leaving you to do all the quesswork. Do you want to pursue a guy who would do that? Who would be a game player, even unintentionally? Would you want to date someone who was THAT clueless about gay people? With you trying to guess and surmise if he meant this or if he meant that? Doesn't that exhaust you? Anyway, he never gave you any definitive clue that he would ever like to see you again, did he? Did he offer you his phone number? Did you exchange last names, even? I mean, why would you not want someone who wanted to pursue YOU? Your whole premise sounds a tad stalkery or that you live in a fantasy world.
Who got there first, OP? You or him? The only reason I ask is this - if he was here first he might have had drinks you don't know about.
I'm sorry OP but a Libra like yourself needs stability and frankly, a crippled gypsy who drinks pink frau cocktails may not be a good choice.
Let me make it very simple for you, OP:
[quote] a high school dropout
[bold]Sing with me![/bold]
[italic]"Gypsy, Gimp and Free"
"I always share my ethnicity"[/italic]
Thanks everyone! I do not who "Jamie" is; I am relatively new here. He was there first, working on a drink. The more you guys respond, the more I realize I may have been lucky NOT to have agreed to see him again; I had a nasty run in with a Narcissistic Personality whacko a few years back, and this fellow may well have been setting me up to hear what I wanted.
Jaime was a college freshman who was in love with his straight roommate. He was around last year. He treated the Datalounge like a personal blog.
"I am in the Pacific Northwest."
Ah, this explains why it is difficult to get the guy. The PNW is not like the real world; people do not communicate clearly.
"This kind of complexity never leads to what you want"
I thought that was Javy, not Jaime
R41, you're right, it was Javy. WHET him?
[quote]Ah, this explains why it is difficult to get the guy. The PNW is not like the real world; people do not communicate clearly.
I was thinking the same thing, r39. Awkward social encounters are pretty much the norm in Oregon/Washington. But many of the men are completely gay-friendly. Sounds like he enjoyed chatting with you, but was sending signals that the chat was just that and not a come-on.
[quote]I'm sorry OP but a Libra like yourself needs stability and frankly, a crippled gypsy who drinks pink frau cocktails may not be a good choice.
OK, that's just funny. Mean, but funny.
Some people just like to talk, OP. Especially at bars (or bar and grills). The reason why it got so personal is because these people will treat you like a therapist/sounding board/confessional. They just need to get things off their chests.
If he kept mentioning his ex-girlfriends, he was probably lonely, but not necessarily hoping for something romantic with you.
Things are often not as complicated as they appear (unless it's family, then it's more complicated).
""I am in the Pacific Northwest."
Ah, this explains why it is difficult to get the guy. The PNW is not like the real world; people do not communicate clearly."
What; are you all so covered in flannel you can't read each others' body language?
r45, watch Portlandia.
Truthfully OP if he mentioned gf's he probably was just friendly. It's quite common for people sitting next to each other in a bar to strike up conversation. Alcohol tends to make people chatty.
R46, I have! It's hilarious. I was trying to be funny, but I guess in humor is truth.
I think him bringing up women, past girlfriends and one "very attractive" woman in particular is a pretty clear sign that he's straight.
At least outwardly.
And that's your red flag: if there really were potential for some male bonding at the sexual level, it means he's closeted, very newly out and over-sharing inappropriately (I was closeted once, too, but I don't talk about the women I've fucked to guys I WANT to fuck), or he's that rarest of rare breeds: a genuinely bisexual male, albeit one who outwardly presents as hetero (and makes an effort to do so, even to a same-sex object of desire)...which still makes him a closet case.
None of those possibilities make for good relationship material, even short term.
I vote for "friendly boozer".
R38, get your trolls straight. That was Javy.
The whole episode was very strange, at this point it's possible that he realized after a while that I may have been interested in him romantically. Chatty boozer is probably the explanation that covers the situation best.
Thanks for being patient folks, I lead such a mundane life that I felt compelled to share the crumb of drama which appeared.
Any updates OP?
No further news - if I run across him again, I'll start a new thread. In the meanwhile, if I meet anyone new, and it ends without a specific plan to contact each other ... that's that!
Thanks to everyone for the input here!
OP, I have a friend with mild cerebral palsy. You can hear it in his voice and you can tell by the way he walks. But he's a much better driver than I am, he's won medals in competitive swimming and diving, and has had a successful career in publishing. He is also well accomplished in martial arts.
We never would have become friends back in high school unless he came on to me - and I don't mean came on to me sexually - I mean he solicited my friendship and we became great friends.
Later he told me he was counselled to do this to overcome the prejudice he might face, and the accomplishments he achieved in swimming, diving, (I would have said water sports if this was not DL) marial arts, gave him confidence.
He shunned me for a short time when I came out to him. I thought it was anti-gay bigotry but no, he was hurt that I wasn't as honest with him as he was with me. Also he was straight but his confidence was new. He wanted me to want him sexually, but also wanted to be able to turn me down.
We quickly got over it. He's not homophobic at all. We were young then and insecure.
Now he's a lot like the guy you met. He'll speak to anyone about anything and you'll enjoy the chat. He's been married twice. Maybe it's the same guy. Does his first name start with "L"?
I have been in these situations too with the friendly, talkative supposedly straight guy and they can be awkward. I even had a friend who was supposedly not gay, or at least very closeted, who never knew my sexuality or at least I never told him and I eventually quit seeing and calling him rather than go into the whole coming out scene with him. Unless the straight guy knows me and accepts me for who I am and can feel comfortable with him, I tend to feel nervous with social interaction with a straight guy. If you were really interested in getting together with him again you should have said so and asked for his number, but the fact that he didn't ask it of you should be signal enough. If you had gotten a "what are you, gay or something?" response that would have been at least one of your answers that the guy was a loser.
[quote]Also he was straight but his confidence was new. He wanted me to want him sexually, but also wanted to be able to turn me down.
Really r54? Can you explain that a little more. Thats an interesting friendship.
I'll try R56.
We took summer jobs together two years in a row at the same place, a nursery. The second year, when we were 17, I got sexually involved with another slightly older guy a few times.
I told "L" about it and he got really jealous, or maybe it was envious. He made a big deal about himself still being a virgin. and me not.
I used to tell him things like "You're a good looking guy", (he was, still is) and he'd say, "not good enough for you to come on to." And he blamed it on the cerebral palsy. He thought I couldn't find him attractive because of his affliction.
If anything, if I thought I was in love with him, but he was straight so I didn't pursue it.