The Walking Dead: Season 3, Part II

Rick, Daryl, Michonne and the gang seek to infiltrate Woodbury in tonight's fall finale. Eight more season three episodes are queued up for late winter/early spring 2013.

• Shame we'll never see how it all ends, what with the Solstice Apocalypse and all.

• Any word on who dies in tonight's episode?

• I hope it's Andrea.

• I'm guessing it'll be the daughter with the bag over her head. Michonne has quick reflexes.

• I hop they don't kill Maggie or Glenn but especially Maggie,she's been through enough already.

• Yay! for the Fall Finale.

• I really like the actress who plays Maggie. She has been impressing me all season, esp when Lori passed, and during the interrogation scene. If they do cut her loose, the people producing the new Wonder Woman series might want to test her. She has all the qualities that make for a great contemporary female action heroine.

• On the other thread people were speculating why Andrea has taken to carrying a bag now. It just dawned on me that she must be carrying her knife (maybe other weapons) and a few supplies in case she needs to bolt asap. Must mean she does not feel 100% safe and has not let her guard down in spite of what it seems. Only a few more hours!

• [quote]She has all the qualities that make for a great contemporary female action heroine. Except a nice rack.

• I thought the same thing r8. There'd be no reason to show her carrying around that pack in random scenes otherwise. I don't think she's fully decided to stay yet.

• Your're giving Andrea too much credit. She's just as smug,stupid and arrogant as always. The only things she's got in that bag are thong panties and a bottle of Jack.

• So R11? Those are supplies. Booze and clean underwear are no doubt luxuries during the apocalypse, but still useful.

• I'm with R11.

• When has Andrea been smug, stupid, and arrogant? When she was grieving her sister?

• Damon Lindelof who makes a living writing scripts that make no sense will be a guest on Talking Dead tonight.

• The description for tonight's episode makes it sound like Andrea is somehow going to take over at Woodbury. Maybe the Governor gets eaten by walkers?

• No, they won't get rid of the Governor yet. He'll be around until the end of season 3, maybe longer. And I HATE it when they split up the season like this.

• Andrea is the Linda Rogo of the Walking Dead

  %22Just%20Panties--What%20else%20do%20I%20need%3F%22

• imo Andrea was a great character until this season. I loved the depressed, loose cannon Andrea of season 1 and 2. I don't like what they've done with her so far this season. I'm pretty sure the black prisoner dude will die tonight because there is a new black male character being introduced.

• I would love it if andrea got her balls back and took over woodbury or turned the tables on the governor.

• An acknowledgement of the existence of homosexuality, and it only took 3 1/2 seasons! No actual homosexuality though, that would be going too far.

• If I was Maggie I would've shot Merle as soon as I got that gun in my hand

• I knew this episode would annoy me because it's not believable a tiny band of people can break into that town and live. Of course maybe they want to burn off one of the supporting characters, after all it's the mid-season finale. But even if one does die, it's still not very believable.

• Rick's insistence at being a dick towards Michonne remains a stupid plot contrivance. She led them to Woodbury so they could find Glen and Maggie. she risked her life for them. She's no spy and he should know that.

• Holy fuck. NOW Michonne is a bad-ass. Oh, and Andrea is a cunt.

• Will Glen be this week's sacrifice?

• What was the reference to homosexuality, please?

• I liked Andrea last season and can't stand her this season. Whore.

• One of the convicts mistakes Carol for a lesbian because of her short hair. Incredibly, it's the only time the subject has ever come up. And yes I know it's actually 2 1/2 seasons, before anyone corrects me.

• Well Andrea is being duped, let's not be too hard on her. And she did let Michonne go, even though she maimed her nice (as far as she knows) new boyfriend.

• Will Merle rejoin Rick's group? The Governor is not happy with him. Now Tjat he knows Merle lied about Michonne and he suspects Merle is loyal to Darryl. Merle's in big trouble

• Oh, shit, R31--I forgot Merle said he killed Michonne.

• The governor is calling Merle a terrorist?

• Andrea is going to shoot somebody. She won't let them kill Darryl. I guess we'll have to wait until spring to find out who.

• I think Rick might view Michonne as a threat to his alpha supremacy, seriously. She could definitely lead the group as well as he has.

• So the black prisoner is down, but hey we get two more! Nothing racist about that.

• I didn't see Merle in the trailer for the next episode in February. I'm thinking he gets killed.

• Also this was the first episode where we see new expressions on Michonne's face! I counted, revulsion, tenderness, bewilderment, and heartbreak ( with Andrea). How cool was that?

• [quote] The governor is calling Merle a terrorist? Yup. He told the governor that he killed Michonne in the woods. Michone comes back, puts out the guv's eye and -- I think she neutralized his zombie daughter. I'll have to watch it again to be sure. . Michonne is also responsible for Andrea seeing Penny and the aquarium heads.

• Let's say Andrea unloads and takes out the armed guys surrounding Merle and Darryl. All three escape and return to the jail. It would introduce tension between Rick and Merle, between Merle and Glen and Maggie, between Merle and Darryl, between Merle and black people. It would be a way to introduce tension if that's the direction they want to go in. If not, Merle will just get killed.

• Andrea is white trash, she loves screwing and whiskey

• They'd better start getting some more female characters. Pretty soon the men will be fighting over the limited pussy.

• I hope not R37. For all his horrible qualities I enjoy watching Merle.

• Oh my, a woman who enjoys sex. She's a bad as Hester Prine, make her wear a scarlet W.

• The governor knows that Andrea was with the group that contained Darryl. He knows she gave Merle a map and directions on how to find Darryl. Now that Darryl has shown up in camp as one of the "terrorists," the governor knows he can't trust Andrea. Question is, has Andrea figured out her position with the governor yet?

• Has anybody played the video games by TellTale? There are five episodes. There's going to be a second season in 2013. In some ways, it's better than the TV series.

• Yep, I knew they would kill off the nice black prisoner.

• I think the Gov thinks Andrea is pretty besotted with him, but I also think he is using the Merle and Darryl scene to see where her loyalties lay.

• Andrea's not white trash. She was a civil rights lawyer before the zombies.

• I LOVED that game R46. Some of the decisions you have to make, and the fate of people you meet along the way, just make your heart hurt. As I told my partner "Dammit, they killed off another potential boyfriend!"

• Was Rick supposed to be hallucinating that one of the Woodbury men was Shane? That was random.

• The Governor sounds like a repug with his terrorist talk and blaming someone else for his weakness.

• r19 calle it. Not that it was hard, ffs. This show and black people. [quote]Andrea is white trash, she loves screwing and whiskey I suppose you don't like either, frau?

• Learn to construct sentences, bitch.

• Yes, I'm over Rick's hallucinations. I was hoping the phone call was the show taking a supernatural turn, it reminded me of The Shining (the original novel), with Jack hearing his dead father talk to him over the radio. But instead it's just Rick losing his mind.

• How cool was Carl? He shot zombies, saved people, offered to shoot the lady in the head and then locked the new people in their own cell. He out did Rick.

• R50, At the end of the fifth episode, I was in tears. I've never played a video game that made me cry. The games are so addicting. I am psyched to learn that Telltale will be doing another Season of the games next year. It will be interesting to see if they use any of the TV show characters. The only one they used this season was Glen in Episode 1.

  R46

• [quote]Andrea's not white trash. She was a civil rights lawyer before the zombies. LOL. Were you playing that online game thingee too?

• I thought Glenn was going to propose to Maggie with that arm bone.

• Did anyone catch what the relationship is between the two new males that showed up at the prison? They were hugging pretty hard when Tyrese was getting ready to bash the chick who had been bitten. They don't look the right ages to be father and son. Brothers, cousins, lovers?

• Next year's preview shows Andrea embracing the governor. She's a rancid cunt.

• Daryl was incredibly hot in the last scene. I liked the way his muscles gleamed in the firelight.

• There had better be a big payoff in terms of Andrea in the second half of this season because I hate the way her character has turned into a fierce warrior into a hobag. Maybe she'll turn around - in the quick preview for the next ep. she's seen at the prison gates.

• Has turned FROM a fierce warrior into a hobag. Sorry.

  r63

• I'm sorry but someone having a fish tank filled with zombie heads is a deal-breaker .Andrea is a whore...

  LIK

• Michonne is the best badass character I've seen in any series in a while. She needs her own show, going from town to town solving problems and killing zombies.

  alphagirl

• R60 wasn't there two gay guys at the prison in the comic books. That's what i had heard so it makes sense.

• Let's be honest there wouldn't be a lot of gay survivors. All that mary shrieking would attract a lot of walkers.

• Jesus that group did shriek a lot....

• It looks like Andrea will intervene and save Daryl....I hope. I also noticed in the preview that the 17 year old kissed Rick on the cheek. hmmm.

• Just remember that she's still pissed that they left her behind. Though she'll be happy to hear that lori's dead.

• I think Andrea realizes that the governor can kill her. The Michonne incident, the zombie child, the aquarium heads, the cowardice the guv showed during the attack. She knows he's a strange person who, for some reason, wields a lot of power over people. She wonders why Michonne came back, she has to know it's for some kind of revenge. She got along ok with Merle in the town. Gave him directions to find Darryl. Now both Merle and Darryl are in trouble with the guv and Andrea has a weapon. I think she will make nice to the guv because she realizes he can kill her, but she will try to free Merle and Darryl.

• Did the comic book show how the Gov got his eye taken out or was he already like that when he showed up in the series? I had been a little bit disappointed with how civil and sane the Governor appears- but I guess it rounds him out a bit. It wouldn't make sense that so many people would fall in line and follow an obviously bat-shit crazy fuck. But I know the comics made him much much worse. Then a thought occurred to me last night when his eye was taken out: I asked my partner- who's a psychologist- what part of the brain would be affected. [bold]Frontal Lob: decision making, emotional centers, judgement. [/bold] I think they've been keeping him just on this side of the line to show a human side to him and his daughter was his last tether to his humanity. The loss of that girl, plus the damage to his frontal lobe= He's about to REALLY get batshit crazy .

• [quote] Just remember that she's still pissed that they left her behind Yeah, but who would you rather take your chances with? A cowardly guy who kept his zombie child in chains and has an aquarium full of working zombie heads and a creepy scientist who is an unloveable version of Gale Boetticher, or a roving band of badass zombie killers? Kind of weird the governor wanted to run away during the attack, since he had no problem attacking the National Guard unit. I guess he's ok with a gunfight as long as he is the one holding the element of surprise.

• I mean Frontal Lobe, sorry.

  r74

• So is this new group of survivors in the graphic novels? I'm assuming the black couple are married and that woman who got bitten sure was a shrieker. She was a definite liability.

• [quote]Just remember that she's still pissed that they left her behind. Though she'll be happy to hear that lori's dead. How would she think that? They were all running for their lives, including her. She didn't even have time to look back and she never made it to the meet up spot so how would she think they left her behind- when she was running the other directed the whole way?

• I don't think The Gov was cowardly...he was trying to keep Andrea away from the action. I think he went back to the office to check on zombie Penny. Does anybody know what kind of gun Carl was using?

• Discussion bump.

• All these people who think Darryl is hot are from downstate Illinois right?

• I wonder if Darryl let himself get captured in order to find his brother.

• Darryl is hot, in a backwoods sort of way. I mean, if you were trapped in the Ozarks, Darryl would be looking pretty good.

• He was pretty in his Prada days, too.

  http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3v2h1zol51ql41t8o1_1280.jpg

• [quote]So the black prisoner is down, but hey we get two more! Nothing racist about that. Don't be greedy. You've got one of the major players now. So what if all the actress can do is bulge her eyes so she looks like a character in a minstrel show?

• Reedus and his son with Helena Christensen. I see a modeling career in this kid's future, too.

  http://normanreedusbrasil.com/pt/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/mingus-reedus-norman-reedus1.jpg

• [quote]I wonder if Darryl let himself get captured in order to find his brother. No shit. Ya think?

• One more.

  http://i2.listal.com/image/516017/350full.jpg

• Obligatory Reedus gay kiss video ...

  http://youtu.be/N520zIEwbHI

• The decision by writers and Glen Mazzarra to water down the Governor (which they've admitted to in recent interviews) has really backfired. By now,, he had raped Michonne several times and brutally beaten her. Without showing this, and their half heartedly written attempt at a threat to "rape" Maggie, they've muted Michonne's motivations and she looks more crazy than he does. It's unfortunate, and I'm not sure why Kirkman has allowed it to happen. The actor who plays the Governor is also making misguided efforts to soften him, and the result is a dramatically fuzzy and unfocused character that makes no sense. I understand that they want him to appear more human for tv because they have to make him watchable for the whole season, but now there is no real motivation for the finale of the whole year. His people haven't killed Lori and the baby, Michonne is fine (likely the rape will happen later but Mazzarra has discussed it in terms of a "political rape" whatever the fuck that means), and he's banging Andrea. Mazzarra and the writers have missed a major opportunity here to solidify the main characters even more with someone to unite against. While this season has been more effective than the ridiculously slow and awful farmhouse season, they're making major dramatic mistakes that will hinder them down the line.

• Meant to add... Also, misguided casting of the Governor. The actor is way too much of a pussy to be regarded as any real kind of threat.

• I actually think the direction they've taken with the Governor on the TV show are great. To me he really is only trying to help his people, but whether he knows it or not he's become a crazy dictator that will murder anyone who threatens the "normal" life he's set up for these people. He's much more sinister if he thinks he's doing right, instead of just being a crazy psychopath. It's what lies ahead for Rick if he's not careful. This world full of the dead is slowly driving some people insane. I hope we see Rick carrying the phone with him, as you do in the books.

• [quote]... they've muted Michonne's motivations and she looks more crazy than he does. It's unfortunate, and I'm not sure why Kirkman has allowed it to happen. Given the writer's treatment of T-Dog and other Black Male.. there's a pattern here. I'm sorry to say it but I can't see past the racism on this show. It's fucking glaring now.

• The young black woman with Tyreese is his daughter. The two men with them are father & son. When first introduced, the young man called out "mother!" while being attacked.

• The woman (Donna) who got the zombie bite was the mother of the teenage boy.

• AMC’s The Walking Dead wrapped the fall portion of its third season in style, logging a monster 10.5 million total viewers for the premiere 9 PM telecast and 15.2 million for the night, including two encores. That was just shy of the record-breaking 10.9 million Live+Same Day total viewers who tuned in to the third season premiere in October. Compared with Season 2 midseason finale in 2011, last night’s audience was up a whopping 58%. The Walking Dead midseason finale drew 6.9 million adults 18-49, up 54% vs. Season 2, and 6.0 million adults 25-54, up 52%. Both qualify as the second-highest deliveries for the zombie series behind the Season 3 premiere (7.3 million in 18-49, 6.1 million in 25-54). The October series premiere of The Walking Dead ranks as the top telecast on broadcast or cable this fall among adults 18-49. And now, the series’ 18-49 average has topped all other fall series — cable or broadcast. The Walking Dead Season 3 to date also reigns as the No. 1 ad-supported drama series in basic cable history among total viewers, adults 18-49, adults 25-54, adults 18-34 and all male demos. The remaining eight episodes of The Walking Dead Season 3 launch February 10.

  http://www.deadline.com/2012/12/the-walking-dead-midseason-finale-draws-10-5-million-viewers/

  Nellie

• R91, the Gov knows the things he does aren't "right" because he lies about them to manipulate Andrea and the Woodburians. He easily makes up stories to control people. Classic sociopath.

• the show lacks dramatic tension. The characters are all flat and boring and the only development they do get feels contrived. It's poorly written, paced/plotted, and acted (for the most part). But still, it's entertaining (zombies!!!)

• [quote]Andrea is white trash, she loves screwing and whiskey[/quote] and don't forget shootin' guns

• Zombie Nation. No wonder Mitt Romney almost won.

• When the Governor brought Daryl in,I thought he was going to make him and Merle fight to the death.

• r100- I am suspecting he will. Or make them fight unleashed zombies.

• Tyrese (the new black guy) was in the novels, but from the beginning I think (part of the Atlanta group), with daughter Julie and her boyfriend. Interesting how they introduced him so late in the series. I think in the novels he was a football player pre zombies. Also, in the novels I think the governor was fucking his zombie daughter if I recall correctly. A gay couple is introduced in the novels post prison, when the group (ten VERY small) moves towards DC. Eric and Aaron. The series also skipped Dale being kidnapped off the farm and eaten alive by a small group of crazies, before rescue (with no legs) and then death. Rick lost a hand in the novels too. Andrew Lincoln was joking that he was happy that didn't make it to the series.

• It seems like they may be making Herschel the Dale stand-in at this point. I'm also guessing that the creepy prisoner is going to end up following the plot of the murderous prisoner in the comics that kills Herschel's twin daughters and slices Andrea's face from lip to ear.

• I'm done talking or thinking about it until it comes back, clicking off thread.

• What is the Governor's motivation to kill everyone? With the National Guard he gained their weapons. That made sense. But didn't he say in the last episode that he wants to find the prison to destroy it?

• He's a crazy Jim Jones type of cult leader. In his mind every other group is a threat to his leadership.

• The Governor wants people to be compliant and loyal to him. He will kill anyone who might threaten his authority. At this point any group that has survived the zombie apocalypse out there on its own under a strong capable leader would be seen as a threat by him. Such a group will have its own tight knit bonds and loyalties and be less likely to blindly follow him.

• I still don't understand why the Governor hooked up with Andrea. I can understand why she did it. But him? When we first met him, there was some attractive nude woman sleeping in his bed. Why risk getting involved with a stranger? Is it anything other than a story contrivance?

• Andrea is just a temporary fuck. When the Governor is done,her head will end up in the tank with rest of them.

• Interview with Norman

  http://www.gq.com/entertainment/tv/blogs/the-stream/2012/12/the-gqa-the-walking-deads-norman-reedus.html%23ixzz2E7gJ71mE

• Bump

• And you better take my opinions on TWD seriously, because I'll shoot a bitch.

  http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/national-international/NATL-NY-COPY-Man-Shoots-Girlfriend-in-Fight-Over-The-Walking-Dead-Police-182189311.html

• I'm thinking that it is time for Michonne to kick Rick in the nuts to bring him back to reality. PS,she kicked the Governor's ass!!

• So in the comic does Rick go all talking with the dead bonkers?

• The show may only allow one black character on at a time but at least they haven't gone as far as to make the zombies racist.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D4xyhVO-SWfM

• "A man has been arrested for allegedly shooting his girlfriend during a heated argument over the television show "The Walking Dead," authorities say. Jared Gurman, 26, was charged with attempted murder after shooting his girlfriend with a .22-caliber rifle at his Williston Park, N.Y., home early Monday morning, police said Tuesday." OMG, look at the photo at r112's link. That guy is 26 years old?

• Glen looked pretty good with his shirt off.

• Love me some Glenn. I've had a crush on Reedus since forever.

• Don't forget in the first season the women were talking about what the miss the most and Andrea said, "my vibrator." Of course she's a ho. The zombpocalypse is here and she's thinking with her pussy.

• Anyone want to keep the WD fun going through hiatus? What about making up possible upcoming episodes, probable or impossible, using the characters? "On the next episode of AMC's The Walking Dead" - Tyreese slaps the Sheriff's hat off of Carl's head in a fit of anger. Just as Carl takes aim to shoot Tyreese, Rick's group returns...

• bumppity-bump-bump

• Why can't this show keep a boss? Glen Mazzara is quitting.

  http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/12/21/walking-dead-showrunner-renewed/

• Isn't that remarkable, you've got to wonder who can't get along with who...

• Someone needs to leak some gossip from the behind the scenes of that set. Mazzara was happy about the show in interviews, the network execs must have been demanding to slash the budget like they were rumoured to have done last season. And Mazzara said fuck it because he knows he couldn't run the show properly that way. It's a successful show, they should just back the fuck off or they're going to tank it. A zombie show like this is going to need a bigger budget than a regular show, you would think they made enough revenue back with the metric tonnes of merchandise they are selling, but greed is greed.

• Is that what's going on? Budget issues? WD pays the bills but they spend all the cash on low rated mad men.

• Wow, this is a real loss for TWD. I've respected Mazzara's work since he was a writer on The Shield. To put this in perspective, he is someone who has worked with Kurt Sutter. As such, he's a man who can put up with all sorts of unpleasantness [not knocking Sutter's talent, though]. For him to quit, I imagine he was facing an insurmountable avalanche of bullshit. I question whether AMC is going to be able to lure someone as capable as Mazzara. If you're a showrunner who has integrity and actually cares about quality and consistency, why would you take a chance with a network that has a track record of screwing over such people?

• To go along with what you said r126, Sutter tweeted about how the suits at AMC must be impossible to work with.

• forgot the link...

  http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/12/21/walking-dead-glen-mazzara-kurt-sutter/

  R127

• Thanks for the link, R127. Sutter is not always objective or rational when it comes to his own work, but he's usually right on when it comes to articulating the challenges that showrunners, in general, face within the industry.

• Mad Men is almost over,Why are AMC's suits cutting other's shows budgets to feed it?

• Bumping because it's less than a month till it's back. Andrea better get her shit together!

• AMC is re-running season 1 today (2/03), starting at 3PM. As a bonus, at 6:35PM they're gonna show the first 2 minutes of the next new episode.

• The winter premiere is tonight at 9 PM Eastern. Plenty of action tonight at the prison and Woodbury.

• Less than an hour away.

• Wow, I have to say that episode was underwhelming. It was basically a repeat of the mid-season finale, and the story somewhat dragged. Interesting how Kevin Smith called out Rick's reaction to seeing "Lori's ghost" as unrealistic (on the Talking Dead). Instead of being angry, he should have been happy to "see her." Weird. I don't know what to make of this season yet, but I have a feeling that Rick is gone by the end of this season. There's no way that he can return from the brink of madness. In the "real world," he'd seek professional help, but in the zombie apocalypse, he has nowhere to go but down. He'll either off himself or be eaten by a zombie. This is the inevitable conclusion for Rick. My concern is that there are no actors who can pull off the leadership role like Andrew Lincoln, and I fear the show will suffer. Rick has always shown his acting gravitas as a leader, from day one, but it will be a stretch to make Glenn or Daryl the leader. Neither of them is a leading man. And the Governor is a super bad guy, so he's sort of the anti-typical leading man. It's strange that the show really seems to be reflecting the chaos on the business end of AMC. They think they can just go through producers like kleenex, but they have no idea that it is absolutely reflected in the overall feeling of the show. I'm afraid that this is the beginning of the end for TWD. Between the bad writing and the carousel of producers, I'm just not feeling it anymore. What a pity, because I'm a HARD CORE fan of the show.

• Rick ain't going anywhere.

• And neither is Lori, unfortunately.

• So what do we think will happen to Daryl and Merle? I think they are going to come back.

• R135 Rick isn't going anywhere. The midseason premiere was terrible. Stilted writing (the "I'm the first brotha fighting to get back in prison" exchange wtf?), poor acting from a lot of the regulars and supporting cast, and absolutely miserable pacing. The dramatic tension in most scenes is as dead as the zombies: everything is so flat and lacking urgency. It felt like the farm all over again.

• Here is the link to the official thread for season 3 part 2

  http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/iowa/ajax.html#page:showThread,12455350

• This thread wins. I thought the episode was OK, but I'm waiting for things to pick up again. Rick is irrational and it slows down the show.

• Isn't anyone weary of the living killing the living? I know they need drama, I know it's a TV show, but the fact that the world is full of ghouls that want to EAT YOU, should provide enough drama about survival.

• WTF?? is up with Michonne? She can't even answer a simple question, just stands there, scowling. Makes no sense and is irritating as hell. We don't have any backstory on her at all. She apparently has a strong survival instinct or she wouldn't be alive, so why does she antagonize the others with her attitude? I get that she would find it hard to open up, however being virtually mute is another story.

• Michonne is unbearable. I have no sympathy for her. She could've told Andrea all about the governor and chose not to. She could've told Rick and his group about Andrea and they might not have been so suspicious. She's one of those people who make everything so much harder and then blame everyone else when those people can't read their mind.

• The way Michonne and Rick are currently written slows everything down for no discernible reason.

• So many good observations on this thread... Michonne has (had?) the potential to be a great character. She could have been someone with a rich back story to account for her aforementioned survival instincts and who seemed to bring to the table a blend of compassion and strength. She took care of an ailing Andrea - someone who was a stranger to her - for months while still being a Katana-wielding bad ass who kept two walkers as pets/cover. As other posters have mentioned, she has basically been rendered a scowling mute. I'm not confident that the show will course correct with this character. I noticed that Michonne actually has at least one line next week and I would be happy if they prove my assessment wrong. I just don't understand how they could have made such a huge blunder with this character in the first place. But, as R145 notes, there are also problems in how Rick is currently being written. I guess if the writers have decided to throw away the internal logic of THE lead character of the show, then I shouldn't be surprised when they botch supporting characters. That being said, I'm still hopelessly addicted to this show. It's just that, as R135 noted, the fact that they're running through producers shows in the problems they are having with pacing and consistency. [Also, R135, I totally agree that this episode was underwhelming for all the reasons you mentioned] We're three seasons in and it still feels like a show that is trying to find its footing.

• Still love the show but Rick and his crazy popping up at random times is really bizarre. And his refusal to allow the new people to stay is ridiculous considering how he begged Hershel to allow them to stay at the farm and pointed out they would die if they had to leave.

• I wish they followed the comic more for story.

• I'm still addicted to this show but as I wrote on the other thread, I'm tired of Rick's bullshit, and when the story lags you really see how poorly staged the show is. Can't they hire some film directors who are fans of the show to direct one episode?

• Did anyone else notice the phantom Lori was a zombie? Is Robert Kirkman a total dick? I've seen him interviewed and he came across as kind of a smart ass but I'm not sure if he was just trying to be funny or if he's genuinely a jerk. Kurt Sutter doesn't sound overly fond of him on Twitter.

• Did anyone else notice the show looked much grittier, I don't mean thematically, I mean the look of the film they shot it with? Last season was so clear etc. Loved the show...

• How could you tell R150? It was so dark.

• Rick's decision to reject the new group makes no sense. He has to know the Governor will want revenge and come looking for them. He needs all the help he can get, especially now that Darryl is gone. I can understand caution, but the Tyrese offered to stay in another part of the prison, find their own supplies etc. Seems reasonable to me, especially with the looming threat.

• The only reason Rick is doing it is because the writers are idiots and need him to act that way to artificially create tension.

• POSSIBLE SPOLIERS He didn't reject the new group - at some point he lost it and was talking to Laurie to get out, they just all assumed he was talking to the new people. In the comic Michone joins the group much eariler, Glenn, Rick and Michone find Woodbury and the Governor cuts off Rick's hand, and rapes Michone while Glenn listens. Then he lets them go to find out where the prison is. Lori does not die in child birth but is killed with her baby when Woodbury attacks. A lot of people who have died already on the show are still alive in the comic at this point and there are more in the group as they left out huge chunks of plot. I can't imagine they will let the baby die on tv.

• That doesn't have anything to do with the tv show R155. I can't imagine that they would follow the woodbury/prison showdown in the comics VAGUE SPOILERS*********************************** And have just the two people left standing. VAGUE SPOILERS*********************************** That would be insanely ballsy but it'd probably alienate a lot of the audience. Still some people will die. I think the "bad" guys are probably a given, but who else?

• I think it's fun that they are going with showing the entire series in black & white on Thursday nights. It was cool when they did that with the premier episode last year.

• There was not just two left standing, some left in the rv when they knew woodbury was coming - Rick and his kid were left from the rest. I would say a good bet is Carole will die - she committed suicide in the comic by letting a walker eat her. But they don't have the RV or Dale. Woodbury is more average people with some paramilitary folks on the show. There is something really creepy going on with the Doc's younger daughter and her reaction to Rick (that kiss) I would be willing to bet we will see Rick make love to her while he thinks it is Laurie.

• Rick and Glen and the white prisoner are the only men left in the group. Herschel doesn't count because he's a legless gomer. Glen should hit Rick with a rock, tie him up and let the other people join the group.

• Andrea is still alive in comics and Michonne,right?

• Yes R160. As are Rick, Carl, and Maggie (and Sophia).

• I think this series would be just fine without Rick...

• Do people actually watch that Comic Book Men series? A bunch of fat, middle-aged losers sitting around talking about comic books. Well, if people watch the Kardashians, I guess they'll watch anything.

• I can't bring myself to watch this season. I read all the comics over the summer and the bleakness, the grimness...it was too much. I'm not going to give anything away, but I will say that it's some of the darkest, most hopeless stuff out there

• I kind of envy the world they live in. All the bullshit we have to deal with day in and day out is gone--it's pure survival. Life today is pure survival, but theirs is without all the bullshit that goes with it.

  I welcome an apocalypse...

• I'll stay in the present. Easier to get food. I read somewhere that the entire world has about a 3 month supply of food. In the US, the non-dead would have wiped out every supermarket shelf within a week.

• Daryl is such a fucking stud.

• And he's become MORE civilized as the story unfolds.

• I think after a bleh 2nd season and a slow 3rd season start, this season has definitely improved.

• Where the hell were Tyrese and his friends during the prison assault? I know it was hinted during The Talking Dead that we will learn more about them because they are no longer at the prison. It was a major continuity failure to have them disappear with no explanation at all, especially with this show not doing Lost-style flashbacks.

• Yeah, last week I thought Tyrese and family had just retreated back to their cell, but now we find out (on the Talking Dead!) that they have left the prison. WTF?

• I thought they left the prison after Rick got all crazy screaming at Lori's ghost at the end of last week's episode.

• Rick needs a shower again. The Governor must die.

• Tyrese did say that they were just going to go as Rick was flipping out. I also assumed that meant they would agree to stay in their section of the prison, but it could have been taken either way. It makes sense that they completely left the prison given that they realized the group was being led by a guy that seemed like a complete lunatic. But the show could have made that more obvious rather than leaving it for a Talking Dead viewer question to clarify. That scene when Carl and Glenn were mapping out the prison and they mentioned where Tyrese told them the breach was, maybe that was supposed to tell us that Tyrese wasn't present anymore to discuss it with.

• Was Michonne living/sleeping in an abandoned bus in the prison field? I didn't understand why she was hanging out there. And who was the masked driver of the delivery truck full of walkers? It had to be someone we know, right, or they wouldn't have bothered showing us that the driver was all in black with a black helmet. Andrea and Milton are the only 2 other names I know from Woodbury, and they were both still back in town. So who was driving?

• The masked driver was to skinny to be Milton and the driver shot at Rick and the others so I hope it's not Andrea.

• Danai Gurira who plays Michonne was on "The View" yesterday and was unrecognizable. She was gorgeous with an almost shaved head and a million dollar smile that you never see on WD

• The show just illustrates that Kirkman doesn't know how to write for a tv show. He was on Talk Dead saying Laura wasn't a ghost but a reminder to Rick of the goodtimes and when he is about to make a bad decision like kick Tyrese out. Huh? When you have to explain what the audience is viewing-it's bad. And even the other actor who was killed in the last show was joking that Rick acting all King Lear and stuff. Kirkman didn't like that. The writing is really bad and you can tell that because when there is no action scenes the show is crippled. I only care for Daryl and Rick. Kill off the rest of them and replace the writers

  Anonymous

• I like this season so far. Some parts from the book, some new. If they follow the books the governor will be back with tanks and other equipment (like the ones he got from that national guard troop), and all shit will hit the fan for Rick and his group. As said up-post, one of the most disturbing parts of the book was Lori (who is still alive at this point) is shot during the prison attack, and a bullet rips through her while holding Judith. Both die. That's when Rick begins to go crazy, not as early as in the TV version. In the books all of Hershel's kids besides Maggie are already dead ... the younger ones (Beth; and there were others) got decapitated by some crazies when first entering the prison. So, we'll see what happens on TV; as said up-thread not sure they will have the balls to kill a baby (my personal guess is no), but the books see continued craziness to come. Near rape of Carl by a group of men for one. Bet that won't make TV either.

• I agree with R178. Kirkman seemed like a tool on Talking Dead.

• Most people watch the show for the action scenes not character development. The last bit of good writing was when the group fled the farm and Rick made his dictatorship speech. I didn't even realize in the last episode that when Meryl ripped Daryl' shirt off that he saw scars on Daryl's back. I only saw the tats. But figured things out when Meryl said that is why he left or he would of killed the man (their father).

  Anonymous

• If the producers/writers are smart, they'll keep Judith around for a little bit to create some dramatic tension. Baby crying and attracting walkers /human enemies would be interesting to watch at least once.

• That baby will have to learn trained to not cry. I heard the Native Americans would cover their babies mouths to train them.

• Like in the final episode of MASH. They'll have to kill little Judith just to stay alive. Buh-bye!

• If I were being chased by a herd, I would be tempted to throw that screaming baby out for them to eat while I keep on running. It would be just like if a pack of dogs was chasing me and I had some T-bone steaks in hand. The Zombie Apocalypse changes people.

• I don't think they will kill the baby but age her. Carl and Judith will be the last survivors of the group. Representing the generation living with zombies.

  Anonymoous

• What's going to happen on the next episode?

• people will die

• [quote] people will die But they won't stay dead

• I thought there were only 2 or 3 more episodes for the season, but I was wrong. They are running 16 episodes for Season 3, so we have 6 more. The season finale will be at the end of March. So if some sort of battle for control of the prison is the big conflict at the end, they still have time to build to that conclusion. I'm imagining Season 3 will end similarly to Season 2, with the group defeated or overwhelmed and on the road once again.

• Add me to the list of people who could do with Robert Kirkman appearing on The Talking Dead. He comes across as a smug asshole on the show.

• R181, I think Walking Dead is many things to different people. I don't know that most people watch for the action alone...I heard some guys at that local lumberyard describe Walking Dead as their "man-soap". Watching how the relationships develop, and the seeing the question of Rick-as-hero deals with the situations...is compelling. For those guys it's at least partly about the question "how would I manage a zombie apocalypse". I would add these guys all hunt.

• FYI...It looks like Walking Dead is on an hour earlier this Sunday. It's listed at 9pm not 10pm today. Counter programming with the Oscars I bet.

• It's always on at 9 p.m.

• This is fucking tragic, lol. "The Walking Dead" is the best show on TV and after two months this thread only has 194 comments. Shitty shows like "Honey Boo-Boo", "The Bachelor" and "Real Housewives" nearly max out after a couple of weeks. The Oscar threads are filling up quickly. Are we gays really that shallow? Damn, I'm considering turning in my membership card at the front desk.

  Shane Walker

• R194, it's usually on at 10 in my area,.

• Shane (r195) this is Part 2 of the Season 3 discussion which means the original thread maxed out at 600+ posts. Plus, someone started another thread for Season 3 that started up after the winter break. So that thread has siphoned off some of the posters that would normally have gone here. But even with all that, your point is valid and sad that Real Housewives of Beverly Hills nonsense fills up threads much faster than Walking Dead.

• Watching last week's show now. Look like Lori gained some decent sized ass and tits in the afterlife. Seriously though, could they not find a double with her body type to go stand in a field?

• I wish they would stop taking breaks and splitting the season in two. I forgot that the show is back, and now I have three episodes to watch.

• It's on at the regular Central time.

• I saw the guy who played Shane in a trailer this week but I don't remember which movie it was!

• R201, I think it's the new movie starring The Rock.

• I love the split, r199. It makes the wait for the new season just a little shorter.

• So... Tyrese and Co. will join the governor. Interesting.

• I guess everyone else is watching the oscars.

• Totally fake zombie head movement during the chop chop scene. I've seen zombie ground breakers at suburban homes on Halloween that were less fake.

• The prison is starting to lag. I'm ready for the big showdown and for Rick's group to be on the run again.

• To hell with Rick. Carol should be in charge of the gang at the prison.

• You'd think they might have come across some board games to take back to the prison on one of their supply runs.

• Will they end the governor's run on the show at the end of the season? They ended season 2 killing Shane and leaving the farm.

• I agree that Carol is evolving. She's actually shooting now. I hope the writer's keep it up.

• Carol doesn't have anyone to female-bond with like at the camp, when the show first started. She can't bond with a mute like Michonne.

• I hope they don't kill Carol. I've really grown to like her.

• What a fucking BORING episode.

• Yeah, it was a time waster. I guess we were supposed to be grossed out by Andrea's butchering of the ridiculous dummy made up to look like a zombie. I could see rolled up pieces of paper inside one of the rubber arms. A video of mice at the Magnolia Bakery would have been more frightening.

• Andrea needs a comeuppance badly.

• Andrea pisses me off.

• As annoying and self-righteous as Andrea is, she sees the futility of war between the groups and wants to avert it, which is a sane position.

• Carol looks like she's in a constant state of arousal like her beav is on constant drip but she's cool about it unlike Andrea who is Minxy McCoy all hot and bothered.

• Why the hell didn't Maggie tell her what happened to her and Glen in Woodbury? Maybe Andrea would have changed her stupid mind and sided with Rick and the others. For such a small group they sure don't exchange info very often. So sick of that soap operaesque plot device. The prison scenes are getting old. Why don't they just leave. I would. After all they are a battle hardened group by now and the Governor has them outmanned and outgunned. My guess is that we will basically mark time until the big finale when the prison is attacked. I hope I'm wrong.

• Yeah, get them out of the prison. It's getting stale.

• Michonne had her longest speech, something about Andrea choosing a warm bed over her friend...and then she said something like.... "And that's why I went back to Woodbury, to.... something something something... I missed that part, anybody get it?

• R222 - "...expose him for what he is. I knew that it would hurt you."

• Those redneck boys are demons in the sack. I bet Daryl is the first decent fuck Carol's ever had.

• Thanks R222 Michonne makes a bad ex-girlfriend.

• Do they really have access to so many cars at the prison that they can just give one to Andrea? And it's not like they know she's gonna be bringing it back. They can only partly trust her right now. At the beginning of the season I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. I was sure they were trying to give us the impression that the residents of Woodbury were until some sport of mood control (something in the water?) or mass hypnosis or something along those lines. But apparently that doesn't seem to be the case and so Andrea's behavior doesn't make a whole lot of consistent sense to me. Rick should have given her that delivery van that's still sitting out in the yard of the prison. I'm sure it gets much better gas mileage now that it's been emptied of zombies.

• This episode sucked ass. It was so slow and so boring. And please make that girl stop singing folk songs!!! I guess they knew it would be a flop going up against the Academy Awards, so this show was just a throwaway. This second half of the season has been extremely disappointing. I'm thisclose to tuning out.

• I hate to say it, because I do love icy blondes, but I think Andrea has to die. She's just horrible.

• [quote]Do they really have access to so many cars at the prison that they can just give one to Andrea? Woodbury is just a few neighborhood blocks barricaded off. Each garage probably had a car and then all the houses outside the gates.

• She got the car at the prison, not at Woodbury.

• [quote] I guess they knew it would be a flop going up against the Academy Awards, so this show was just a throwaway. I highly doubt this was a consideration, knowing that it is no longer 1976 and people can dvr the show, watch it on their computer, or when it is rerun later that night or later in the week.

• It seemed there were some editing problems near the end or did I miss something? Out of the blue Carol tells Andrea she needs to give the Governor a great roll in the hay and then kill him. WTF? Why would Carol say this? That was really dumb. All Andrea had to do was shoot him on sight.

• Tom Waite is not a folk singer. Andrea is supposed to be a lawyer but her character is becoming so unredeemable she needs to be killed off early just like Lori. I don't understand why they don't move to another government facility. The CDC had more than one in Atlanta and they are highly secured. There are a lot of cars available since as seen most people didn't make it out. And in a real life evacuation crisis-Atlanta is screwed. I lived there for a while. Instead of waiting for the Governor to attack the prison- they should sneak back in and kill him. Robert Kirkman has no writing skills at all and this is the farm season all over again. I'm tired of Rick's hallucinations. Please- get over it. I can understand him grieving over killing his best friend and his dead wife but he has 2 kids to live for. The whole Laura in white is silly. She was a slut when she was alive and still a slut in death. if they want to be a soap opera just give me a sex scene between Daryl and Carol. I want to see Daryl' ass.

  Anonymous

• Yeah, Lori was fucking Shane in the woods only a couple of weeks after Rick's "death." Ho. Why are the women characters do awful on this show? Only Carol seems sane and she was beaten half to death by her husband. Lori and Andrea are sluts. Maggie's a slut, too. She took her shirt of in the pharmacy and basically told Glenn to get to it and fuck her. The women are sex-crazed and the men are these stoic heroes. I doubt kirkman is married.

• I don't want them to kill Andrea. She was a decent character in the first two seasons... it's only this season that she strayed with the governor. I hope they redeem her character and not kill her off.

• Carol blurting out that plan seemed out of character. Even if she thought killing the governor would solve all their problems, why was it necessary to add the part about giving him a night to remember (paraphrasing here). Why not just tell Andrea to kill him when she gets a chance?

• [quote]Michonne makes a bad ex-girlfriend. Lol, it's exactly what I was thinking. Michonne is the worst. She could've just told Andrea her thoughts about the governor and knowing how self-righteous Andrea is, she probably would've believed her. But no, Michonne had to be a cunt about it and now blames Andrea for it. Seriously these writers can't write women for shit. All the women are the worst. The men aren't too great either.

• I'm embarassed to admit I think Merle is hot.

• I'm usually not into Asian dudes, but I think Glen is quite fuckable. I'd love have him lie on his back, put his legs in the air, and let me go to town on that little ass. Daryl? I like to have him top me. He would be fucking brutal, I think. Rick's good looking, except he has skinny chicken legs, Shane had a great body, but his face and ears were fug. Merle? Sexy in a strange sort of way. I do the Governor too. I'd bang his ass so hard he'd see God.

• Merle wasn't bad looking in his youth.

  http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1577750016/nm0740264

• I WANT to continue watching this show, and I've loved it, but it's just losing me. Not really sure why. Maybe it's the fact that after a while, we all realize it's a zombie apocalypse, everyone has the virus, it's never going to stop.... That pretty much leaves it there. People will either have to survive as-is, or die. When I stop to realize that, it makes wanting to continue following the story seem worthless. I hope they let the series die with dignity instead of dragging it out to the last lonely viewer.

  Then%20again%2C%20I%20stopped%20watching%20Mad%20Men%20last%20year%20also

• I am completely with you, R241. I don't know why the show is losing me either, but the storyline is not as exciting, the characters are almost all new, and the writing is horrible. I can safely say that the show jumped the shark on February 24, 2013. That episode was boring as hell, and nearly pointless. It added nothing to the overall direction of the show, and could have been omitted, without skipping a beat. I guess 2 1/2 seasons in, is not a bad run. R.I.P. Walking Dead. You've now become a zombie.

• There's really no point to a continuing zombie saga. We need to find safety, wait there are zombies! Wait, there are Chicanos at a nursing home! Wait, there's a farm! Wait, more zombies. Here's a prison, but it's got zombies and prisoners in it! Wait, now there's a soft-spoken paranoid power hungry leader of a community who wants to kill us.... But he attacks us once and then runs away. He doesn't surround the prison with his scouts to intercept anyone coming out. The eternal sunshine of Herschel's spotless farm gives way to the even more tedious prison where everyone sits around saying they are sitting ducks. More fake zombie gore, more talk of a war, more arguing about Merle ...

• It would be more interesting as a "Run For Your Life" type of show, where the protagonist went to a different place every few episodes and then moved on. Rick looking for his wife and son, hearing that they've been spotted just over the hills... He gets there just as they've left. But he gets involved in helping the remaining people fight off zombies and resolve personal conflicts, then moves on to the west, where his wife and kid were last headed...

• I don't even know if I want to watch it tonight. I think maybe comic book readers are easier to please than television audiences.

• "I think maybe comic book readers are easier to please than television audiences." have you been watching television for the past 15 years? The Kardassians, American Idol, the Bachelor, Honey BooBoo. I mean really...

• Yeah, but they're not plot-driven shows and they don't spend weeks and months at a farmhouse and a prison dithering around with weak "character development." I know the characters by now. Move it along, toots (writers). Maybe the show keeps losing show runners because they want to introduce more characters who might be interesting, but the suits don't want to pay for it.

• The show just announced for the 4th season that the showrunner will become the Executive Producer. I don't know if the new guy will be sharing duties with Robert Kirkman but at least Robert will be pushed to the side alittle in order to save the show.

  Anonymous

• More ridiculous breakdowns in communications. Rick could easily have said, "I used to be a policeman here. My name is Rick Grimes. Who are you?" before automatically shooting the shit out of people. And why ignore the poor backpacker? They need all tje help they can get at the prison. .

• Why would. getting shot in the body armor area cause someone to be unconscious?

• This is one of the best shows on TV and tonight's ep is really good. Much better than last week's.

• I foresee a romance between Rick and Michonne next season...

  psychic101

• Well I thought that they would at least pick up the poor hiker.

• R250, I haven't seen tonight's episode yet, but supposedly armor can protect against penetration of bullets, but obviously you'll still feel the impact. Depending on the kind of armor, it feels like getting punched with a fist or a brick. So it's not a pain free thing. I do hope they push Kirkman off to the side a little. From watching Talking Dead I think he's part of the problem. He's a douche. And he doesn't seem to get that graphic novels and tv shows are two different things.

• I was hoping we would see the hitch hiker again at the end of the episode being left behind once again or maybe even being picked up. It's a pity he met the fate he did; but it is not surprising. Did the ZA strike the people on the International Space Station or was it an Earth-bound only event? I doesn't really matter I suppose because they are likely dead by now due to the lack of supplies. What percentage of humans are still alive as humans and have not turned into walkers yet? 2%? 5%? I would like to see more discussion of this aspect of the ZA ELE. It seems like there is no recovery possible for the human species, or for most other large land dwelling mammals. At least the whales, dolphins, sharks and saltwater fish specifies should be able to recover given how they are most likely no longer being overfished.

• OK, what is the point in not helping the hitchhiker?? Same thing with the other group of people they told to leave the prison. Am I missing something??

• Yay! Michonne was given lines and allowed to show emotion beyond contempt and suspicion. I'm impressed that they finally got around to resolving the Morgan storyline. I really think that is the hand of Glen Mazzara rather than Robert Kirkman. It takes guts to admit that you dropped the ball on a storyline and to finally address it. I could see Kirkman saying "Who gives a shit if we never see Morgan again?" and not seeing why it matters in terms of continuity. As for the new showrunner - Scott Gimple - Kurt Sutter totally called it two months ago: "They’re going to plug somebody else in there; they’ll plug some pour soul in there, or, my sense is that they won’t even hire a showrunner. My sense is that…they’ll throw a shitload of executives at it. They’ll take some poor sap on the writing staff and elevate him." Gimple wrote several episodes for the second and third seasons and has no prior showrunner experience.

• Michonne is growing on me...

• Walking Dead montage set to Skyfall

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D1kdmpztSHV8

• The hitchhiker was to show how cold and callous Rick has become.

• I also think a romance is brewing between Rick and the Scowler. I found the ending very haunting with the music playing and coming upon the remains of the hitchhiker. It really bothered me that they didn't pick him up. In fact, it bothered me as much as Dale and Sophia's deaths. I guess it's because I put myself in that poor guy's shoes. His desperation was heartbreaking. And maybe partly because I used to hitchhike. One reason I like the show: It's always sunny and the birds are chirping and the crickets humming and the scenery is beautiful. Another reason: they don't have work at a job that sucks the life out of the them. They don't have that awful daily grind. They have down time too, but we just don't see it. I'd rather take my chances with zombies than HR.

• The hitchhiker bit really pissed me off. What the hell!?! They can't even stop to check the guy out momentarily. I should think they'd be able to tell by now if he's infected, meryl-like, governor-like or what not. And for that matter, why leave Morgon alone in that state to continue a miserable lonely existence. Why not bring all these people and the innocents turned away before back to the prison and make some semblance of a community. Honestly, the callous actions of the main characters are really getting ridiculous.

• the characters are becoming more and more unlikeable...

• The group's failure to pick up the hitchhiker pissed me off as well. It smacks of bad writing on The Walking Dead TV show's part; IMO they should've had more scenes with strangers being untrustworthy enough for Rick and Co. to have good reason not to trust some Average Joe with a backpack begging for help. And they let an asshole like Merle stay in the prison, yet turn their backs on a lone guy begging for help on the road? Doesn't make much sense. If they had made the backpacker (COMIC SPOILER) one of the Hunters, Rick would've had more reason not to trust him, but they haven't even introduced that storyline into the show yet, and they've propelled themselves way far ahead to the Morgan Returns storyline. Did anyone watch The Talking Dead afterwards? Chris Hardwick mentioned that the backpack guy was getting roundly ridiculed and laughed at in an audience of 2,300 when that clip was shown at some kind of comic-con. Are we really becoming such assholes as a species, or is it just our country with no healthcare and no social services and a me-me-me first attitude? "It's MY money, bitch! You're not taking it! And screw the loser backpack guy!" I really have no hope for my country or its callous selfishness when I hear stories like this. We don't need a zombie apocalypse for people to be total ASSHOLES to each other, sadly. :(

• [quote] OK, what is the point in not helping the hitchhiker?? People, have you not been watching the show? There's an evolution happening. It has been quite some time since the apocalypse began. I think it's pretty smart writing to show that the characters are becoming "different." "Moral" characters like Rick and Morgan are going crazy because they just can't handle the new reality. It was interesting to see that Michonne admitted she talked to her dead boyfriend, but that she has also adapted to the apocalypse. Most interestingly, Carl is the one I'm keeping my eye on. As a child, this IS his reality. He saw glimpses of pre-zombie life, but these are his formative years, and he will continue to get harder, and harder. I think Carl will be the biggest badass of all, because he is growing up in the craziness. Rick tried to help everyone, and it didn't work. They're all starting to see this now. You can't save everyone, and you can't help everyone. It's every man for himself. Rick has concluded that his old personality of wanting to save the world, has not worked out so well. Good people have died, because of his leadership, and he has decided that they won't add any more people to their ranks. And Michonne and Carl seemed perfectly fine with that decision. I think this was a real turning point for the characters. [quote] What percentage of humans are still alive as humans and have not turned into walkers yet? I started thinking about this. The walkers are starting to look more emaciated and decomposed. At some point, the living won't have to contend with the dead, because their numbers will be dwindling. According to WD mythology, the walkers can starve, and eventually "die" of starvation. This implies that after a year or two, the only new walkers will be those who have recently died, which can't be that many. The world will start to shift from fighting the dead, to fighting the remaining living people. I think that's where the Governor, and Morgan, and all the other little population enclaves, will factor in. It will become a power struggle between the living, to see who will emerge victorious, which is why Rick and the Governor are building armies. It's like feudalism all over again.

• At least Rick got himself a nifty new backpack.

• [quote] At least Rick got himself a nifty new backpack Speaking of which, Michonne's character really made a leap forward, personality-wise. There was a lot of humor in the episode. Don't ask me why, but I giggled when they passed by the hitchhiker, and then when he caught up to the car, they ditched him again. That was worth a chuckle. And then again, when Michonne recovered Carl's family photo, and then she said, "plus I had to get this. It was too cute to pass up." Or something to that effect. That scene made me smile. This episode was much better than last week.

• I thought this episode was one of the best so far. If only because of all the sunlight! Very symbolic. I took the whole hitch-hiker scenario as symbolic too as to what happens if a person takes an every man for himself attitude too far. What is the point of being alive at all if you fear every living person and refuse to trust anyone? You end up crazy like Morgan or roadkill like the hitchhiker. It serves no one. The picking up of the backpack was clever, because they still have to be smart about it and can't afford to indulge in sentimentality. But I think Rick is aware now that he can't afford to continue being so isolated and fearful. Survival depends on retaining some of his pre-apocalypse humanity as much as everything else they have learned.

• He wasn't a hitchhiker, he was a backpacker. There are no hitchhikers in the zombie apocalypse. Rick didn't try very hard to get Morgan to come with him. He could have had Carl and Michonne come in and try to convince Morgan to come along. Imagine if when Rick was all squirrelly the rest of the group said, "Later for you," and let the governor shoot him when he was outside the compound. A full hour to show Morgan was alive but crazy, and we're leaving him and everyone else behind. Back to the prison, back to the governor, back to everyone sitting around waiting to be killed.

• I think it's pretty clear why they passed up the hitchhiker. It's why they pushed out Tyrese. They don't have the time or the resources to take someone new in, and it's very difficult to build trust. Also, at this point why would someone wandering around with a backpack have survived? If they were with a group why were they ousted? He could have been dangerous. What it really was though was bad and pointless writing in an otherwise powerful and dramatic episode (one of the best in the series despite the fact that the actor playing Morgan was not very good in scenes that required him to be absolutley epic), and that saw the terrible and depressing resolution of a character we've all wondered about. FINALLY there was some development of Michonne. This was some old school zombie stuff, dark, gritty, post apocalyptic. It called to mind the utter hopelessness of the genre, even the darkness of "The Road". To show him dead at the side of the road (which everyone knew was coming) as a consequence of Rick implicitly deciding to avoid him when he had clearly survived for more than a year on his own was beyond weak. Why all of a sudden did the hitchhiker lose all sense of survival instinct just because they drove by him, stumbling into a group of zombies with no means of escape? The reason people were laughing is because it was stupid and made no sense. It made zero impact on me because I didn't buy it in the slightest. Surely he had run into other survivors before. It just didn't work. Otherwise, this ep was a great diversion from the failure of the Govenor storyline. It was really where this show should be most of the time, but isn't.

• So, I realize the comics make a point of not going into it, but why can't the television series delve into the societal backstory a little, as so many other have wondered and wanted to see? I realize it isn't true to the actual comics/books but not everything is. Would it somehow compromise the series to depict how it came about, where the President and other world leaders may be, if at all? If every country is affected, etc..? I think it'd be greatly interesting as long as it were done right and in little pieces.

• Could someone please remind me who Morgon is? I haven't seen last night episode yet (I don't mind spoilers so spoil away) but, who's Morgon??

• Where would Rick be if Glen hadn't helped him? Where would Andrea be if Michonne hadn't seen her through her illness? Where would Lori and Carl be if not for Shane? What if the group hadn't been taken in at the farm? Every one of them would be dead. The backpacker was an able bodied male who could have been an asset, same as Tyrese and his small group. In this universe you need all the friends you can get. I didn't find it funny when they drove past the backpacker.

• "They can't even stop to check the guy out momentarily. I should think they'd be able to tell by now if he's infected, meryl-like, governor-like or what not." She just disappears into every role. It's like nothing I've ever seen.

  Mike Nichols

• Morgon was the man from the first season who saved Rick's life. He had a son and a wife who had turned. At night, Morgon could see his zombie wife outside with all the other zombies, but he couldn't bring himself to kill her.

• Thanks R275. So he FINALLY showed up. Does it look like he'll be an ongoing character? Is his son still around?

• Yeah, leaving the backpacker behind was unnecessarily harsh. And yeah, why are they letting Merle stick around after he's already proven himself a threat to their group; yet they push Andrea, Tyreese's group, and the backpacker guy away?

• Merle stays because they don't want to lose Daryl.

• [quote] Yeah, leaving the backpacker behind was unnecessarily harsh Especially in an installment where Rick finds the man who saved his life in the very first first episode. First Morgan saved Rick. Then Glenn saved Rick. Then Herschel. The backpacker could have been the last survivor of a small group of people who were slowly wiped out. One of the silliest things about this show is the sheer number of intact zombies. WTF? Zombies eat humans. So why are there so many zombies with 4 limbs? There should be more zombies like the woman in the first episode who was partly devoured. Lori and T Dawg were fully devoured. While the virus has infected everybody and anyone who dies will become a zombie, most people are dying of zombie attacks. The ones who don't get shot in the head by the people with them. There are too many mobile zombies with just a single shoulder or face wound.

• [quote] I think it's pretty clear why they passed up the hitchhiker. It's why they pushed out Tyrese. They pushed out Tyrese because Rick was out of his mind crazy. If Rick had been his normal self, he would have allowed them to stay after a quarantine.

• I thought it was really shitty of them not to pick up that poor hitchhiker. Don't they need more people to help out too?

• This show is slowly but surely losing me. I'll keep watching, but there are so few likeable characters. There is not enough explication, not enough backstory to understand the characters motivations. I don't need everything spelled out for me, but a half smile on Michonne's face as she listens to Rick in the car is not enough (for example) to explain her complete about face from stony, sullen silence to helpful protector and friendly helpmate.

• So is Morgan going to eventually show up at the prison and what happened to that Hispanic family that took off on their own?

• [quote]It has been quite some time since the apocalypse began. I think it's pretty smart writing to show that the characters are becoming "different.""Moral" characters like Rick and Morgan are going crazy because they just can't handle the new reality. And it's not smart writing to not have a hero. People want to root for the hero and this show now jumped the shark into they are all assholes, who cares territory. Rick was willing to bring back to the prison a guy who is nuts and actually stabbed him because he saved his life, once. Yet, let a innocent die on the road, with no thought of saving him. If you don't have someone to root for what's the point.

• Not to mention there was no reason for Michonne to hate the governor in the first place. He was nice to them, had a doctor see them, put them in a nice room. The audience knew not to trust the governor, but we saw and heard things that Michonne had not, until she saw the zombie head aquarium. So suspicious, scowly Michonne suddenly goes all gooey when Rick tells her to drive the car? After he's been cooking in a crazy stew for days? WTF? They not only didn't stop for the backpacker, they were completely uninterested. Not even a "Hey, there's an alive person. Hmmm. Whatever." It's like the suits said, "No new characters. We're not paying another salary and we mean it. You brought back Merle and that's your new character." So the writers put a point on it.

• "what happened to that Hispanic family that took off on their own?" Dead. When the trio went off the road and were stuck, it was the Hispanic family's car they were detouring around.

  mc

• I am disappointed they brought back the Morgan character. It would be much more "realistic" if he was never heard from again.

• [quote] "what happened to that Hispanic family that took off on their own?" Do you mean the family from the first season? They took off to find other family members.

• "Not to mention there was no reason for Michonne to hate the governor in the first place." She was suspicious because she saw the National Guard gear, truck etc. with blood all over it.

• Best episode of the second part of the season. When I saw the charred skulls and all of the sharpened sticks for some reason I thought oh shit cannibals. That would bring an interesting new element to the show. This episode really makes you realize how terrible the prison and woobury storylines are. They're dragging on for too long in dull, predictable ways.

• Wasn't the father of the Hispanic family bitten in the campground attack where Andrea's sister Amy died? Also when that other guy got bitten in season one why did they just leave him on the side of the road to suffer and turn and maybe eventually hurt other people?

• [quote]Would it somehow compromise the series to depict how it came about, where the President and other world leaders may be, if at all? If every country is affected, etc..? Yes it would. That's not the show we're following and it would be pretty jarring unless it came from the mouth of a new character they encounter. I do wish they'd do more flashback beginnings. I know they did a Shane/Lori and it'd be pretty interesting to see how some of the other characters first reacted. So we get a sense of who the hell these people were and if in fact a zombie apocalypse changes you. I have my doubts about that. I think people like the Governor were probably sociopaths beforehand in their own lives in everyday ways i.e. screwing coworkers over/having affairs. And people like Rick would eventually crack anyway. That's who he is. He takes on responsibilities and when he fails he blames himself. That would've caught up to him in his old life too. Contrast those two with someone like Carol who lost her husband and whose daughter was a zombie, and after a period of mourning, she's actually doing okay. Or with Darryl. He didn't have the luxury to expect much from life, so he takes everything more or less in stride.

• I think I noticed the actress who played Morgan's zombie wife, was in a non-zombie crowd scene at Woodbury.

• [quote]Wasn't the father of the Hispanic family bitten in the campground attack where Andrea's sister Amy died? No, that was another random Hispanic guy. The family was mom, dad and 2 kids, I think. I know one of the deleted scenes is Rick and crew going back to the old folks home where some other survivors were holed up in and taking care of the residents. Unfortunately, they were over run with zombies and by the time Rick's group went back everyone was dead or turned but, if I remember correctly, it looked as if someone had gone in a shot up everyone. The governor perhaps?

• Funny, R293, I thought I saw her as a zombie inside the restaurant.

• This was a good episode, the "road" eps on this series are the best ones. When they're holed up somewhere like the farm or the prison things aren't as exciting. I want to see an end to the Woodbury/prison storyline soon, it's really starting to drag.

• [quote]Dead. When the trio went off the road and were stuck, it was the Hispanic family's car they were detouring around. The Latinos that the Dixons helped were not the dead ones blocking the road. They were driving a hatchback (remember Darryl killed a zombie with the hatchback) and the car on the road was a sedan.

• I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but since when can tv people say shit and bullshit on basic cable? Michonne said it at least twice on last night's episode.

• The layering of contradictions and the sheer number of polarized opinions about the events in this episode leads me to believe that its function was to emphasize the dramatic and lasting effects the Zombie apocalypse is having on all the characters. * callousness of R,C, M and the desperation of the backpacker then later haunting with the music the remains of the backpacker vs. R stopping the car to grab the guys backpack *the sunny spring weather with birds and crickets contrasting the dark human nature *R, C,and M refuse without comment or interest to pick up the desperate hitchhiker twice, yet show compassion towards a crazy guy that tried to kill them simply b/c, after he was thought dead, R recognized him as the man that saved his life two years prior. Even still they leave him to himself, instead of convincing him to join them. *R understands the need to gather forces to defeat the Governor, keeps Meryl, but (over 3 episodes) passes on three potentially amenable groups/people who'd be assets to the prison group. *C and M show no emotion over the disregard for the desperate single backpacker, and are noted to generally despise one another through implied conversation, but bond through a forced situation. We've already seen that the prison is big enough to house people or segregated groups in different areas, while still allowing them to unite under the necessity of protection,and ultimately they can kill or lock out anyone who becomes a true threat. Why do they not operate under this premise and vote on all potentials that they happen upon? Furthermore, didn't R all but give up most of his leadership role last week? If not couldn't the prison group just out vote his authority? How hard could it be. . . . so many questions. . .too many loose ends and contrived plot devices. . .not quite to the extent of a Ryan Murphy show, but, yea, this show is starting to lose my interest as well. . . Also,in response to r261's comments re: characters not having to work at a job that sucks the life out of the them, and following awful daily grind, while having the benefit of down time we don't see. I'd rather take my chances with zombies than HR. AMEN!

• FX and TNT shows have been using 'the brown word' for several years, r298. What I thought was weird is that they bleeped it when Scott Porter said it live on Talking Dead right after the episode aired. Also an interesting note from Talking Dead - they had a production note that said they producers wanted to bring back the Morgan character during Season 2. But they wanted to use the same actor and he is so in demand (apparently) that he wasn't available that year to film with them. So they had to revise the story around access to an actor. That's interesting.

• [quote] Don't ask me why, but I giggled when they passed by the hitchhiker Why?

• Since me, R298. You're welcome. Ta.

  Ryan%20Murphy%20%26%20NIP/TUCK

• I thought it interesting that Merle and Darryl saved that Hispanic family, yet Rick drives right by the backpacker without a second look. Isn't Rick the hero of this story? Why would the sociopaths Merle and Darryl be more humanitarian than the leader of the good guys?

• Is Michonne magical? The idiot kid dropped the picture right by the front door and it became crowded with zombies, who were clearly still there, as you could see them through the glass over the kids shoulder outside. In thirty seconds she managed to go around to the back door, go through the place to the front door, pick up the picture and shop for her own tchotchke all the while the zombies never turned around at the windows, was never out of breath, bloody or followed by the hoard.

• She found her way up to that roof pretty fast, too, without tripping any booby traps.

• I don't think Daryl is just taking thing as is. He can deal with the zombies world because life has been chit to him anyways. But he has grown attached to Rick, Carol and Carl. Someone on Talk Dead said it best: Daryl was an outdoor cat who realize its pretty cool indoors. Too bad baby Janet is supposed to survive. If people think Carl will grow up as a badass; I would think Janet would grow up beyond vicious because this would be the only life she has known. And also I sense all Maggie, Carol and Maggie' sister caring for the baby but Maggie/Carol seem more guarded in not trying to bond too much to the baby. Maybe fearing she is not longed for this world. And Rick just started bonding with the baby when he was feeding her at the end of the last episode. They will have a very conflicted relationship not only with a father who is emotional guarded or crippled but also the fact that he knows that she isn't his. I wish the show would put Michone and Rick together than Andrea and Rick as in the comics. Andrea likes corrupt people. Rick isn't corrupt but like Michone who spoke to her dead boyfriend and has adjusted to the new world. Rick is finding his way to final adjustment.

  Anonymous

• LOL r304 + r305 I notice both of those things myself. She's a quick one, that Michonne!

• [quote]one of the best in the series despite the fact that the actor playing Morgan was not very good in scenes that required him to be absolutley epic. Really? I thought that guy was amazing. He's a great actor.

• Well Michonne was obviously an agile, super ninja warrior in her past life, R307 ;) The most surprising thing about her is that she had a boyfriend!

• Morgan returns in the books as well, but a bit after the prison. When the group heads towards DC. Just as crazy in the books. One of my favorite chapters of the books was a quick "check in" with Morgan and Duane at Christmas. I loved this last episode. Sealed Michonne as part of the group (which she is in the books), which was very much needed in the series. I think they're doing a good job of following the main points of the book, but adding new twists and surprises to keep those who read the books on guard. If they follow the books there will be a fuck load of deaths coming up.

• God damn it, R306, my name isn't Janet!

  Judith%2C%20Rick%27s%20little%20girl

• [quote] They not only didn't stop for the backpacker, they were completely uninterested. Not even a "Hey, there's an alive person. Hmmm. Whatever." There was definitely a point to that scene. It was reminiscent of season 2, when Rick and Shane were driving past a field, and neither of them even blinked when they saw a walker in the field. Rick kept talking, and Shane just stared out the window, looking at the walker as if it were some sort of deer. That was the first point of acceptance, where walkers became less of a threat, and more of a nuisance. In this season, the characters are even more hardened, ignoring not only the dead, but the living, as well. I'm starting to see characters start brushing off the walkers like flies, rather than being terrified by them. Contrast that with the Woodbury people who haven't been exposed as much to walkers, and scream and run away. The characters are definitely changing and becoming harder, and they are starting to have a "relationship" with the walkers. Rather than constantly running from them, the living are CONFRONTING them. Woodbury was using them for entertainment and experimentation, Michonne was using them as decoys... It's an interesting dynamic that's taking place.

• I like how they opened with a closeup on a highway sign that said "Erin, We tried for Stone Mountain. -J" and then when Michonne turfs the grass and sinks the tires in the mud, one of the zombies' arms has a bracelet on it with the tiled letters E*R*I*N. Guess she didn't get the message.

• The guy who played Morgan was pretty epic if you ask me. He chewed the scenery like a real zombie.

• I liked that too R313. There's 4 episodes left. I assume they'll have to hit the road again? That they'll either be run out of the prison by the governor and/or the prison will be overrun by zombies much like the camp and the farmhouse. So who won't make it? I assume Merl is done for. As are the two white guys from Tyrese's group. The Governor will be killed I'm sure. Ditto Milton and Martinez. But who from Rick's group? Herschel? His singer daughter? They seem the most expendable right now. Will Andrea survive season 3 or will the governor kill her before he dies?

• I hope Hershel's daughter who isn't Maggie gets chomped by the walkers, if only so we won't have to hear her sing again.

• Okay guys, you can have a night of hot sex with Rick, Shane or Daryl. Who'd you pick?

  just%20curious...

• I didn't notice that R313! About Michonne's ninja skills, I can suspend belief in something fairly minor when it comes to a TV show about a zombie apocalypse. Otherwise I would be picking the show apart weekly. I think she ran through the back door and scooped up the items while the zombies were focused on the front door. Being a one-hour TV show, they can't have a 5-10 minute scene waiting on her to get back.

• If Ric allowed other groups into the prison and armed them to help fight the Govenor...there is no guarantee that they would stay loyal to the prison group. Sad but true. At this point the people who have made it this far have some mad self-preservation skills. Think of the show "Survivor"....how much would you trust any of those people if it was life and death?

• Ugh. Why don't they gather supplies and leave? They can't even get it together to fix the fence. Sitting ducks.

• With a newborn baby they attract both walkers and the living. They are in a non win situation and spent a harsh 6months including winter on the road. I can see why they would want to rest for a bit.

  Anonymous

• Was anyone else annoyed that after all the wandering around Georgia that they seemed to be doing, and then it turns out that the prison is near Rick's hometown?! How could he not have known the prison was there given that he's in law enforcement?

• Rick comes face to face with the Governor.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Ffeature%3Dendscreen%26v%3DG3xdr83iJ08%26NR%3D1

• [quote]the prison is near Rick's hometown?! How could he not have known the prison was there given that he's in law enforcement? I wondered the exact same thing, R322.

• Three things... 1) Rick, Michonne and Carl bonding, that's what happens on a road trip! 2) driving past the hitchhiker...it reminded me of Band of Brothers, you just can't care about a newby...they are probably going to be dead soon. 3) I'd love to know the hitchhikers backstory. That he was clean and well-fed and stupid enough to walk down the middle of the road with his stuff clanking showed that he didn't know much. I imagine that he has been in a survivalist bunker for a year and just ventured out. He might have been an asset, but hey, who stops to pick up hitchhikers even today?

• [quote]the prison is near Rick's hometown?! How could he not have known the prison was there given that he's in law enforcement? Holes like that don't bother me. I just want good character development.

• Even if he knew or didn't remember the prison is there, who thinks "Oh my God let's get to the prison!" in an emergency?

• Who says the prison was anywhere near his hometown? It looked like the trio was on a major day trip that could have spanned the state--a good three or four hour drive. Rick told Morgan that he kept getting pushed farther away from home by the walkers.

• There aren't any gas stations along the way so they can refill their tank. Every gas station ran out if gas early on in the ZA

• That's what this show is missing, more images of gas siphoning.

• I just assume they're siphoning gas from the vehicles of the people who got chomped by the walkers.

• My prediction: More people will die. Some will be killed by zombies, some will be killed by humans, someone might die of appendicitis. There will be no dental care. Zombies will continue to randomly roam the earth. Rivalries will continue among the humans. New characters will be introduced as familiar ones die off. Rick lives.

  A%20Einstein

• R330, no one is saying that we should see that. The reality is, no more gas is being produced and they've been around those parts for a year. And they're not the only ones. At some point traveling by car will no longer be an option. It probably shouldn't be already, but of course it's easier for the writers to get them from point a to point b.

• Ah, R333....I was just funning ya. I agree, someday the gas will run out. Someday either all living people will be gone, or they will have to have a new type of society based of the virus. I would love to see that show!

• I hope at some point we find out how the virus (or whatever the hell it is) originated. And also what happened in the rest of the world.

• [quote]My prediction: More people will die. Some will be killed by zombies, some will be killed by humans, someone might die of appendicitis. There will be no dental care. Zombies will continue to randomly roam the earth. Rivalries will continue among the humans. New characters will be introduced as familiar ones die off. Rick lives. Ever heard the expression SPOILER ARLERT!??

• "Also,in response to R261 's comments re: characters not having to work at a job that sucks the life out of the them, and following awful daily grind, while having the benefit of down time we don't see. I'd rather take my chances with zombies than HR. AMEN!" There is something seriously wrong with our country as a whole (not you personally, R261 and R299 ) when its people are so desperate and beaten-down that they'd prefer a catastrophic human extinction event (where PEOPLE EAT OTHER PEOPLE) to struggling in their current lives. Seriously. I hate my shitty job and all, and I too struggle to make ends meet like most of the 99 percenters out there, but I'd much prefer a world without zombies. We have enough of them running our government already.

• Not sure the Prison would be his first thought for safety. Lots of bad people there. That plot hole doesn't bother me much. They could be an hour away from home. How much of the state do you know an hour away from home?

• Rick is in law enforcement. Of course he would know.

• I don't think Kirkman knows much about Georgia. If you are half a days away from Atlanta (south) you are near Savannah. Marsh land. But in the last episode the highway sign said something about Stone Mountain which is just a half hour from downtown Atlanta.

  Anonymous

• R319 First sign of a zombie apocalypse and I would hunt down the Hantz clan. Perfect chance to stomp out that blood line without getting arrested!

  Richard%20Hatch

• This episode is a fucking snoozefest. I thought the Governor was supposed to be a scary psycho.

• I pray that Milton gets so disgusted with the Governor that he kills him.

• If Milton is such a genius, why hasn't he come up with some kind of body armor? Merle fastened metal into a knife arm. How hard can it be to get scrap metal and football helmets and birdcages and figure out a way to make bite-deterring armor?

• Why don't they see more skeletons? Zombies with head wounds should decompose; they're finally really dead.

• Seems like a useless episode trying to redeem Andrea. She finally learns about Maggie and returns to start a rebellion within Woodbury. Too late. Her behind should of left with Rick and company while they were freeing Daryl. She is another Lori to me. After seeing the Gov' attack Michonne and his room filled with shrunk heads and his caged daughter- I don't see how anyone could go to bed with him again. Rick won't give Michonne up and I can see a little Michonne/Rick action. She has adapted to this world and had similar problems Rick is experiencing on his road to adaptation. I know this is contrary to the comic book. But I don't see how Rick and Andrea every hook up. She has open her legs to 2 men who tried to kill Rick- Shane and the Gov.

  Anonymous

• Ok episode. They don't seem too afraid of walkers anymore!

• This episode was about relationships. I can't stand how Milton talks. Someone should off him for being such a pussy.

• I love that Andres was treated like a nobody by Rick & the Governor during their meeting and shooed away.

• The episode was a set-up for a big housecleaning starting next week. My guess is Milton, Merle and the Woodberry guard. Tyrese will return to see a couple of his friends killed. The Governor will need to go, but who will kill him? Maybe it will be a way to try to redeem Andrea, but not sure if that would work.

• Only three episodes left~

• You just know Daryl is going to have to kill the Woodbury guard.

• Which members of Rick's gang are going to die before the end of the season? Herschel, Carol and Merle seem likely to meet their deaths, as well as that younger, blonde daughter of Herschel's. If this show wanted to be as bleak as the future it represents, any of the following would also die: Rick, Carl, Michonne, Baby Judith and/or Andrea, regardless of what has happened in the comic story or what would happen to the television story. I expect The Governor and Milton will both die along with numerous nameless members of Team Woodbury. Tyrese might make it out alive but probably not everyone in his crew.

• [quote]I pray that Milton gets so disgusted with the Governor that he kills him. Prepare to get your wish. They pretty much have a neon sign over his bespectacled head announcing that in the end, he'll have a crisis of conscience and turn on The Gov. Even by the standards of a show about brainless zombies, it's pretty unsubtle.

• Tyrese will probably join Rick's camp as a voice of reason, so Herschel can be let go. The blond daughter may be kept on as an object for Carl's raging hormones. I hope there's more story for Carol and Daryl. Michonne's unique and has more story, but Merle's stories have run out and no one wants to see a redeemed Merle. Don't see how they'd keep an active toddler on this show for very long.

• Rick should be smart enough to know that Gov isn't going to let it all lie if he gives up Michonne. He's just tempted by the idea because he's had many moments where they lost people because of "going back " for one single other person. But he read the Governor and knows this is just a power yank to see what he can get the other guy to do. I'm expecting that Andrea, Tyrese and Mitchell will all turn against the Governor is some moment. At least they would if the writers were remotely worth their salt- but seeing how they've written for the women so far, I'm doubting they're that creative.

• I hope they keep Herschel. I like him. I like that actor too. :( Merle can die in a grease fire but they'll probably give him a "hero's" death or hell do something to save his brother. That's the only thing that could justify keeping that asshole around. Think about it. None of them would be in this mess if Merle hadn't kid-napped Maggie and Glen in a stupid spiteful moment.

• [quote]Prepare to get your wish. They pretty much have a neon sign over his bespectacled head announcing that in the end, he'll have a crisis of conscience and turn on The Gov. Even by the standards of a show about brainless zombies, it's pretty unsubtle. I hope Milton doesn't kill the Governor. It's really bad writing to have such a minor character kill the seasons main bad guy. That said having the Governor die and Woodbury destroyed is going to be pretty anti-climactic. They need to do something more interesting. Hell wouldn't it be interesting if the Governor gets away and takes Judith with him? That'd kill two birds with one stone.

• The Governor leaving town with Shane's baby? That'd sure kill two birds for me!

  Rick

• Maggie and Michonne should get the pleasure of killing the Governor. Beth is alive as long as the baby is alive. Herschel is gone. He acts like dead man walking. Tyrese will take his place as Rick' moral compass. They will not kill Rick or Daryl until the end of the series or when Carl hits puberty and is viewed as a man. I really don't see where Andrea fits in the group anymore only as Carol' friend. No one trust her or her instincts. And she just betrayed Rick again by telling the Governor about Shane and the baby. I think they are setting it up for Andrea and Milton to kill the Governor which would be lame. Because people will just view it as a woman scorned because the Governor tried to rape Maggie. Andrea should of left along time ago. These writers don't know how to write women characters. Michonne is different because she is a warrior. But watch what they will do to her if her and Rick start getting close. The last episode Michonne was acting like one of the nannies in the Help.

  Anonymous

• It's "should have" not "should of"...

  it%20needed%20to%20be%20said.

• Somebody in another thread recommended "Stake Land" on Netflix as a good zombie film. I had never heard of it before. In some respects it was better than Walking Dead. You might want to watch it.

• [quote]The last episode Michonne was acting like one of the nannies in the Help. LMAO

• Either Michonne or Maggie should kill the Gov. Are they ever going to develop the relationship between Daryl and Carol? Has the Talking Dead ever commented on that? Merle's an asshole but I think he could be an interesting character and slowly redeem himself. He's fucked up but he's mellowed as far as his racism goes. It would be interesting to see him evolving into a human being with vulnerabilities and real emotions besides rage and hate. I think it would be hilarious if he and Michonne got together.

• I'm glad that Andrea has found the one remaining beauty salon left open in the state. Her lustrous locks and impeccable makeup never falter even when the rest of the world is melting around her.

• Ha R365. I admit to thinking Andrea was hot at the end of Season 2. Now not so much.

• That's why she stayed in Woodbury for a comfortable bed and a beauty salon.

  Anonymous

• WHY in the fuck does Andrea insist on walking around Woodbury with her purse, as someone else once said, like she's going on a supply run to WalMart?? She reminds me of some messy gossip queen, going back and forth between two feuding factions and spilling their tea to the other. She needs to die already. Nobody likes her, she ads nothing to the overall story and she's a miserable character to watch. I like Hershal but he needs to go. I can't keep looking at his gross beard and eyebrows that are about to crawl off his head.

• I smiled while watching the Talking Dead and guest Eliza Dushko (?) said the Woodbury townspeople were all walking around like, when did Starbucks close?

• Yeah I'm one of those people who loves to shit on the clueless Woodbury people, but the truth is, if the ZA came and I was lucky to find something like Woodbury, I would have no problem at all trying to live some kind of normal life and forgetting the zombies outside.

• I'd start a Woodbury coffee shop with you, r370

• [quote]Either Michonne or Maggie should kill the Gov. Should be Michonne, after a kick ass fight,. she cuts his head off and it goes flying and ends up in the fish tank.

• I don't understand the Michonne love here. The character is basically a mute. She's boring and does nothing but stand off to the side of the group and brood toward everyone, head tilted down, eyes rolled up. We get it, she's a stoic, battled hardened introvert. If we can't learn more about her or if this is how the character is all the time, I hope they just kill her off with the racist hillbilly, the "governor" and the stupid kid who, despite the oppressive Georgia heat, is STILL walking around in daddy's old cop hat.

• I was reading the Atlantic website and one of the reviewers said that maybe they were making Andrea so ridiculous and foolish in an attempt to redeem her in a future ep. Considering they did this to other women, like Carol and Lori, I could see it happening. Granted, they redeemed Lori by killing her...so we'll see. Perhaps Andrea will die trying to save her old friends. Sounds like a plan, R371!

  R370

• Our prayers for a Woodbury coffee house have been answered!

  http://www.thecitizen.com/articles/06-10-2012/senoia-coffeehouse-gets-makeover-%E2%80%98-walking-dead%E2%80%99

• R375, just for fun, here's the link to the place...

  http://senoiacoffeeandcafe.com/%3Fpage_id%3D238

• r373 the tv version just doesn't do justice to the comic book. She was much more kick-ass — slicking up dozens of zombies with no effort— and she had a LOT more background and a lot more time given to her character in the comics. I don't know why the writers don't like her but they've made her into the boring angry stereotype that you're describing. You can be mad at them. With the intense episode from a couple weeks ago I was hoping we'd see her wield that sword to take down a field of zombies but alas... we see her kill TWO then cuts away to crazy boring Rick.

• Since Herschel is the new Dale, I guess he'll be killed off.

• Speaking of the coffeeshop....I would love to see some of the more practical reality concerns being paid some attention. It occurred to me that these people have no fresh milk unless someone found a cow and that hadn't been eaten by zombies... nor will they ever again until they find a bul and managed to breed it with that one cow . Why don't we ever see moments like that? Like, some Woodbury person discovering a shed where chickens were kept out of harms way ? Or that one place where they managed to get some livestock for a bit of food? Hershel had a farm where we can believe he was able to keep some livestock out of the way and maybe grow some crops but how the fuck did all these Woodbury people really survive for a whole year —scavenging dime stores for snack packs?

• Please let me see your stump. It's totally cool and not weird at all. I'm a scientist.

  Milton

• Even though he knows that the Governor is an insane sociopath, there is no way that Milton will help to kill the Governor. He has zero zombie killing skills and he won't survive long if Woodbury crumbles, even if he becomes part of Rick's group. He of course knows that and he will rat out Andrea. He's just hoping for the end of the conflict as soon as possible and a return to "normalcy" at Woodbury, which in his case is being left alone to do his research. He's disgusted by the Governor but he needs him.

  Anonymous

• If they kill Hershel I am gone, he is the only likeable character for me.

• What about Darryl and Carol R382?

• I don't get the lusting after Darryl, he looks like a weasely redneck. Carol has grown on me but she is just okay. Last night on The Talking Dead they seemed to really like Andrea but I think the writers have painted her into a corner and she is unredeemable for me.

  r382

• My favorite character from the start has been Glen. The rest have grown on me.

• Was it just me but was there sexual tension between Daryl and the latino guy until he started talking about his wife?

• I noticed it too.

• The conversations between the two teams was interesting. The two leaders have their dick-measuring contest while the minions realize that if it weren't for their leaders they'd all get along just fine. It makes you wish the Govenor wasn't a fucking sociopath because the practical solution would be for them to all work together. The town can use the prison as a fenced in farm for food. The Prison could use the town - for whatever it can provide, I guess. But the dumbass tyrant is to obsessed with controlling people to allow this to happen.

• I'm thinking Maggie may be killed off this season.

• Exactly, R377. I love Michonne, but that comes from the comics. If I hadn't read them, I would not have any interest in her character at all. But I love how she handles that blade. I've said it before, she needs her own show traveling the wasteland solving people's problems Equalizer style but using her bad ass blade.

• Two burning questions: are the zombies becoming more and more fragile? their body parts are reduced to sawdust with minimal trauma. can they insert a scene where someone cuts Darryl's hair? that wig is so silly looking.

• I think we're left to imagine how and why the walkers function and have any strength at all. Logically, we might suppose they might become more fragile as they "age" or decay over time— hence the fact that one can easily crush a scull with a boot, etc.— while the newly dead are more in tact and capable of holding someone down or over powering them. Theoretically, if their faces and body are decaying as much as they are, they can't be too strong because their muscle mass has decayed as well—but last season we saw a single zombie tackle and tear into a grown man's stomach and rip him apart with it's hands. Also, while Milton's failed experiment seemed to defeat the notions that zombie has any emotional memory at all, I like the idea that the newer zombies have more physical memory. They can smell people, open doors, work stairs, pick up a rock to break windows, etc. when the older zombies are more dead to the world- only responding to sound and movement of others. But yeah, how their arms aren't falling off from decay after a year is requires a necessary suspension of disbelief no?

• I remember the episode when Rick and Shane were trying to drop off Randall and Rick was talking about the upcoming winter. Thinking that a bad winter would slow down the walkers. Between Season 2 and 3, the group roamed around during the winter before finding the prison. I find it strange none of them talked about facing the walkers in the winter and things they discovered while camping out.

  Anonymous

• I don't think I'll watch next season. I'm kind of over the show. It's a lot of trumped up wars/arguments between humans punctuated with gratuitous gory zombie killing and too many plot holes. I don't like any of the characters. They're non-dynamic and one-dimensional. They're worse than comic book characters. From what I've heard, in the comic book Michonne is more than a grunting Zulu warrior with magical powers to cut through hordes of zombies to rescue photos and stuffed animals. Rick just squints his eyes and puffs out his cheeks like he's trying not to vomit. Dude, I get it. You're a badass who doesn't want to be in the same room with the governor. No need to look like a dying puffer fish. But maybe there is, because the writing sure doesn't work when it comes to characterization. The actors are reduced to Tussaud figures with electrical glowering eyes. And that fucking kid with the hat who keeps wandering off by himself into zombie mayhem. I've had it with him. And Andrea. And the governor. And Milton the Red Shirt. And Merle. And that blonde caterwauling dipshit girl.

• [quote]They can smell people, open doors, work stairs, pick up a rock to break windows, etc. when the older zombies are more dead to the world- only responding to sound and movement of others. What's so weird is that picking up a rock to break window is a highly intelligent thing to do. Maybe unremarkable for a modern day human, but this kind of tool using in animals and our less evolved human ancestors would be a huge deal. I'm surprised that after that episode (they were also climbing over fences!) all the zombies are portrayed as dumb as dirt. I was kind of hoping eventually they'd take a Land of the Dead approach where the zombies eventually start "thinking" and "communicating" with each other to get the humans.

• I realize much has to be left to the imagination, but so many comments on this thread are accurate and I wish the writers would see them. There is much storytelling gold I think it at least small flashbacks of the beginning and why/where it happened. To see and understand how people are eating or to show them procuring things like cows and chickens in order to see a gradual societal evolution would be interesting to say the least. How about coffee? Isn't anyone going through withdrawals from things like sugar and cigarettes? If Woodbury is such a perfect little enclave, hasn't the governor had the townspeople grow a garden? I mean, they made that zombie amphitheater.. haven't they had time to establish a system of food growth or distribution? The prison has become boring. How are they all eating? Where is the water coming from since you know they'd have to have it? And why aren't any of them using it to bathe? Andrea constantly looks like she just spent an hour at the day spa yet some of the town ladies are walking around in their daytime house gowns like they've been ironing instead of surviving the zombie apocalypse. These are little things, but their absence is making the gaffe into a really big issue as the series progresses.

• Where are all the animals?

• [quote]From what I've heard, in the comic book Michonne is more than a grunting Zulu warrior with magical powers to cut through hordes of zombies to rescue photos and stuffed animals. I actually went back and reread the first 3 volumes of my Walking Dead graphic novels and was surprised it wasn't as great as I first thought. Maybe it was because when I first read them, the zombie genre was kind of new. All the WD characters in the comic novels sound exactly the same for the most part, there's tons of "cheesy" and duh/on the nose dialogue and too much stuff used as shock value. I think with the comics, you're kind of forced to use your imagination to fill in the gaps, so maybe that's why people think it's so great. A TV show won't be able to live up to that.

• R397 - in the second episode of the first season, Rick rides into Atlanta on a horse. The walkers surround him and the horse. Rick dismounts, runs and hides under the abandoned tank. The walkers eat the horse. And that, my friend, is where the animals are...

  Ann%20Ominous

• R399-You would think a few animals, especially birds, would have escaped, my friend.

  Gert%20Real

• Well, you got a point, 'cause you got me thinking about other animals now - like bears and stuff...wouldn't they be able to mess up a walker real bad? Hmmmm.....

  Ann%20Ominous

• What was the noise in the background when Daryl and the Woodbury guard were talking? It sounded like a grain elevator or something. Or like the noise made in The Mist in the Frank darabont movie made from the Stephen King book about the giant insects.

• [quote]How about coffee? Isn't anyone going through withdrawals from things like sugar and cigarettes? I imagine after a year the withdrawals would be gone. The other thing is that many of these people should high blood pressure, fairly common especially starting around middle age. Hershel would be a prime candidate. Are they pillaging bp meds from the pharmacies along with other medical supplies?

• Some of the animals have surely survived. I think they ought to find a dog in the series for guarding and warning of impeding intruders.

• I think the show has exhausted itself. Where can it go? I echo what others have posted - I am getting tired of the annoying things that don't make sense. How do all the guys keep their beard stubble and their hair at one length like that. Where does the water come from in the prison? Where do they get their food, where do they defecate? I am bored with the town, the prison and the road, over and over again.

• We're way over budget on fake blood, and now you bitches want dogs and bears on the show?

  AMC

• Are you really watching the show. There have been horses and deers. Daryl regular hunts rabbits and squirrels. But I would assume that all livestock animals would be dead by now. What I wonder about is Maggie/Glen having sex. Aren't they afraid of her getting pregnant. It's been over a years since the dead rose so even if Maggie was on the pill. She needs a refill by now. I think most people would be at their healthiest by now. Losing weight and eating less and exercising. What bothers me is the prison- how they haven't taken steps to repair and fortified it. Why haven't they just killed the walkers in the field and rebuild the outer fence? Especially since they are so go hung on staying there. I like all the characters except Andrea. And I wish they would give more backstory to Michonne. But they are dragging out the season. The meeting w/ the Gov was stupid. Rick knows the man is a sociopath. And Rick snapped out of crazy town very quickly.

  Anonymous

• The actor playing Darryl wanted a dog this season but the producers said no. Maybe next season?

• It's just about a year. Lori was pregnant when the trouble started and the baby is about 2 weeks old now. So it's probably even less than a year.

• Andrea's sister was hot. They should have kept her around.

• I am growing very weary of this season too. In the graphic novel the governor was pure evil. Now I see very few differences between his madness and ricks. The novel showed that the people in prison were free and the people of Woodbury were inmates. This has reduced the original storyline into warring tribes. All the characters I do like don't get any screen time.

• A bigger mystery is how Norman Reedus affords a penthouse in Manhattan.

• [quote]It's just about a year. It's been longer than that R409. Lori wasn't known to be pregnant until they were at the farm. They were on the road for weeks before that, maybe months. I believe in this past week's episode, Rick made reference to the timeline. Seems like it's been a couple of years at this point, give or take. May be even a while longer. It's interesting how Hershel's hair has grown into a ponytail yet Carol is still sporting a buzz cut. Some of the characters seem to freshen-up from time to time.. yet Rick is STILL wearing his same sheriff's uniform shirt?!? I really want to see Daryl hot-trash redneck ass bathing naked in a river.

• He was a top male model.

• Lori stopped sleeping with Shane when Rick was found to be alive. Rick was in a coma for a month. The zombie apocalypse couldn't have happened more than a few weeks into Rick's coma because his IV was empty. He would have died without fluids. I'm guessing it was only about two weeks into his coma that it all happened, otherwise he'd have shriveled up and died. He went to his house, then met Morgan, then took off for Atlanta, finding his family along the way. That all seemed to happen in a pretty short time period.

• Arrgg where to start on this show. Why the fuck don't they leave the prison behind? I could see it if they had bothered to start crops/ make it really secure with zombie traps etc. But no everyone just sits around the depressing rooms and don't even really communicate essential information to each other. Andrea is a total lost cause, Rick is an asshole who consistently makes poor choices. I could go on. I'm upset because I loved this show and will keep watching for now, anyway, but the characterizations are so thin.

• Well R416, if you're into characterizations, supposedly next seasons new showrunner will be focusing more on character and less on action. For reference he's the one that wrote "Clear" the episode where Rick, Michonne, and Carl go back to Rick's hometown.

• Norman Reedus for Prada.

  http://akariko.tumblr.com/post/12075631861/celebstyle-edits-norman-reedus-for-prada

• Can't he do anything about those bags under his eyes.

• Young Norman Reedus was very pretty.

• Norman is yummy!

  I%20want%20to%20be%20Daryl%27s%20bitch%21

• [quote]A bigger mystery is how Norman Reedus affords a penthouse in Manhattan. Living with a top supermodel for four years and popping out a kid with her can garner a man some nice benefits, I'm sure...

• [quote]What I wonder about is Maggie/Glen having sex. Aren't they afraid of her getting pregnant. It's been over a years since the dead rose so even if Maggie was on the pill. She needs a refill by now.[/quote] Not only Mags and Glenn, but dumbass Andrea and her asshole boyfriend the Governator. Up until very recently, it seemed that all we saw of Andrea was naked Andre-ass in or around Phillip's bed and the thongs she must've mined from the local Woodbury Frederick's. Don't people in fucking TV shows or movies ever worry about getting pregnant or STDs? Seems that in a zombie apocalypse, those would be pretty big concerns. Hopefully, Woodbury has a pharmacy with an overstock of Trojans. And did anyone else notice that this past Sunday, everyone was suddenly donning winter clothes and coverups after months in their sexy sleeveless getups? My, that Georgia has temperature extremes...

• Maggie and Glen raided a pharmacy together when they were at the farm. That's when she seduced him and stocked up on birth control pills

• Re the animals: I could see some old farmer, seeing the end is nigh, freeing all his animals before offing himself. The group could come across some like this. The issue is that so much of our usual meat sources are domesticated animals who would not live well in the wild. The cows would be extinct. They can't run. They're domesticated to stay still and calm and not be afraid of humans. They would get spooked at one walker, moo and make noises to draw more to them. GONE. Pigs, probably the same. Can't see them outrunning a herd for long. Chickens might be able to get away. They can fly, jump and evade a slow walker. But they'd be stalked by other animal predators; foxes, etc. Animals like wolves would probably breed more because their main predators are all zombies now. They might proliferate. Deer would proliferate. They know how to avoid humans and their numbers would go up without anyone shooting at them or cars killing them. Horses, like deer, might have a chance if some broke free or might have been let of a pen. They can run fast but they would want to stay near the food sources and near each other. Maybe they'll be a wild herd some where. Foxes would be able to get away and proliferate. Cats would proliferate - they have instincts to avoid predators. Dogs... if they were free they might get away but many of them would want to protect their masters, homes, etc, and they would bark and make noise that would be as bad a screaming baby. Birds, Ducks and Geese would proliferate. Fish would proliferate.

• [quote]Arrgg where to start on this show. Why the fuck don't they leave the prison behind? I could see it if they had bothered to start crops/ make it really secure with zombie traps etc. Valid points about the crops and such but but we're supposed to remember that the staying factor is the baby. They need a place to hide a crying and screaming child from the walkers. Outside they don't have a chance with her. Why they didn't write in a line every now and then to remind us -- well. hell I could do it. ~~~ Merle: "We should get out of here... take our chances on the road" Daryl: "Say what- with a baby? She's a month old and hasn't quite learn to keep still or pick up a bat... might take some time" Rick: "We're staying for Judith. This is the best place for her- for us." ~~~ Now, see. How hard was that? In 30 seconds the audience would be reminded just why the prison is SO important. Meanwhile they could patch up the damn walls, I guess.

• Yeah, just what is it they do all day, anyway?

• They could have that place fixed up and secure in no time, but they just sit around. And have they run out of formula yet?

• From the little they show from two forays the baby would have been out of formula in 2 weeks.

• But in the last episode-Rick, Carl and Michonne went out on a run. They got a crib so I would think they got formula.

  Anonymous

• Okay, it looks like Andrea will indeed try to off the Governor. New clip from the next episode is posted on MSNBC. Looks like she's conspiring with the nerd guy, who will likely out her. Something creepy is going on here with the hidden room and creepy dental chair set-up with crude medical devices. The Governor must be planning on torturing Michonne.

  http://theclicker.today.com/_news/2013/03/12/17285166-walking-dead-exclusive-photos-is-andrea-targeting-the-governor%3Flite

• Season 3 has been enjoyable enough but I still can't shake that nagging feeling this show is already past it's peak. A 16 episode series could be doing it more harm than good. 12 episodes would be ideal - they could trim all the fat and keep the story rolling along much quicker than the snails pace it's been going. We're in for another 16 episode season for the 4th. Not too happy with that decision =/

  Aar

• Woodbury and the governor, like last year's drawn out nightmare at the farm with Herschel, is this shows least interesting plot line. Move on already. I'm starting to get annoyed with some of the practical implications of the apocalypse. Gas has a shelf life of a few months. Even if they were able to find it, it wouldn't function. Was there no nuclear power in this universe? Because all power plants would have failed a long time ago, collapsing and creating huge, dangerous, impassable hot spots of radiation and sickness. Zombies would be the least of their worries.

• R433 - Not necessarily true on the gas. It can last for years. As for the nuke plant scenario: I'm all for more detail as well but that one would be sort of too much I think. I don't t think they've come near any nuke plants but perhaps they were all put into shut down before the last human walked out. I'm more interested in HOW they're pumping the gas out with no power; but I supposed they're just siphoning from other cars. Another good obvious question would be: WHY does the entire prison group have only ONE stupid car, and a little hatch back Subaru to boot? Wouldn't somebody have realize a pickup or a Jeep or Range Rover would be called for, considering they're needing to drive off road so much? Sheesh this show has some continuity issues.

• r430, it is the show's job to show us that, not for us to fill in the blanks for them.

• I love Daryl but not so much his looks. I do find Rick very sexy...something about those small alpha males are hot. He needs to switch teams in the new world and since anyone would be better then Lori.

• It would have been nice if Darryl and that other guy had touched hands for a moment when sharing cigarettes.

• r434, I wondered that, too. To choose ALL the vehicles left in the country (millions of them) they could only find an old huge GMC SUV (circa 1978) and a Japanese small SUV? Ditto for the old man's Winnie. Sure it was his, but you're telling me they couldn't find something newer that had been abandoned?

• They're all just LAZY. They should get a fucking job!

  Tina%20Fey%2C%20better%20and%20richer%20than%20you%20are

• R436. I'm with you. Some good old lovin between Daryl and Rick is needed. It looks like they are doin it anyway. They know each other moves and can communicate silently.

  Anonymous

• Well they had to have a Hyundai SUV because it's a sponsor. I'm sure they'd use a Jeep or Range Rover if those companies sponsored them.

• 436....my secret weird fantasy is that I am Rick's second in charge and we kick zombie ass together and I make him forget all about Lori (and Shane) at night...Rick likes the muscle (for killing zombies and other things) and I appreciate his leadership status and skills. The rest of the group are suspicious, as is Daryl who secretly approves. Of course in none of these dreams do we smell, or are hungry or are frightened by zombies, nor are Carl or that baby around...

  ..and%20then%20I%20woke%20up.%20

• So, judging by the sneak peek [R431] posted, Andrea is finally waking up. Something that could have happened episodes ago. You just know she will try and not succeed. Someone will save her or maybe she'll die saving some of the original group. I wish the writing wasn't so lazy. This show is getting by on the strength of the whole zombie apocalypse scenario, not on character development. One thing I will say about it, and what keeps me watching, it doesn't have hyper patriotism or cheezy feel good Spielberg moments like *ugh* Falling Skies.

• I've heard this described as a straight guy's soap opera.

• Almost every show on TV these days has soap opera elements of continuting storylines. The Sopranos, Games of Throne and Breaking Bad are also soap operas.

• [quote] The Sopranos, Games of Throne and Breaking Bad are also soap operas. Link?

• r446 couldn't spend 2 seconds on Google?

  http://moviegallery.com/blog/how-you-made-soap-operas-mainstream-and-didnt-realize-it/

• Now that the Talking Dead is 1 hour this show is starting to kiss it's ass too much which means it is headed for a fall.

• The poster for Season Four

  https://plus.google.com/app/basic/stream/z13zihugmvezj34qh04chbk45zqahdpxfmw0k

• I have been watching since the beginning...I just don't care about anyone anymore...it's become a bore...something major has to happen to make it interesting again...

  U.%20taker

• I really don't care about anyone either, but I enjoy the show. That *might* be because it's my favorite jandra.

• In the first season, there was a character who worked for the city of Atlanta, and she told them about the pipes and sewer system of the city. This proved helpful. Glen was a gamer, so he came up with escape plans. Daryl used his arrows for food as well as killing zombies. At the campsite, the people fashioned fishing lines and were able to catch some fish for dinner. I kind of thought this would be a fun series. I wasn't expecting a Professor-from-Gilligan's-Island type of character who would be building radio transmitters from coconuts, but I thought characters would have life skills that could be put to good use in the zombie apocalypse. Instead, we've got people sitting around arguing, shooting and yeah, sometimes zombies show up. And that's the whole show. No engineers survived the zombies, no city planners, no farmers (Herschel owned a farm but seems to have forgotten how to plant anything). Even gamer Glen has forgotten his intellectual skills. The only character who does anything besides raid stores, shoot, drive a car and sit around moping is Daryl. He still shoots food. Everybody else is a fucking drag. This is where bad writing comes in. The writers don't even have the skill of Minute Mystery writers. There are no surprises, no twists, no brilliance. We don't even know what motivates the governor. Aside from zombie contests, his people don't seem to notice him much or Idolize him. What good is power if it just puts you in charge? Where are the perks? Milton is a "scientist," but he's obviously autistic, since he's been experimenting with zombies but hasn't found out anything about them. He doesn't even know that whenever a person dies, it's zombie time. So yeah, it's people arguing (that's not the same as character development) and sometimes zombies, who are like big pesky mosquitoes, show up.

• Nice analysis R452.

• Ah well, I've stuck with other shows because I enjoyed the actors more than the writing.

• [quote]There are no surprises, no twists, no brilliance. We don't even know what motivates the governor Oh yeah, what happened to his notebook full of slashes? What did that mean?

• "what happened to his notebook full of slashes?" It means he had lost his mind. One thing the writers have tried to do is look at the nature of leadership after the ZA. Rick lost his mind, too...but the difference is that the Governor is a sociopath and Rick isn't. Also, witness the difference in the lust for power, the Gov was a weak guy of low status before the crisis, whereas Rick had carried a gun and dealt with confrontations before. I had hoped Rick was experienced enough to see through the Gov at that meeting, he comment That "You are just the drunk guy that knocked down my fence..." underestimated what he was dealing with, but it was close. Meanwhile the Gov probed for Rick's weaknesses like a true sociopath, charming and manipulative, able to lie easily right to your face. Both men have skills that make them leaders, but Phillip is making a society founded on corruption. Would Rick's little tribe...with all the soul-searching would ultimately be a healthier place. Certainly many leaders are sociopaths, in the end does it hurt the society? Or does it not matter?

• Hmmm... I was watching that preview with the torture instruments and maybe it could be interesting. Maybe Milton will tattle on Andrea and the governor will give her scar across her cheek that she sports in the comics. I know I know it's doubtful, but it'd be great if they could make it happen.

  http://www.cinema-crazed.com/hallow_horror/Andrea.jpg

• [quote]We don't even know what motivates the governor I thought we were to infer that what he has become--controlling, cold-hearted--was the result of losing his family.

• Everybody has lost family.

• It would have been interesting if people in Woodbury disappeared on a regular basis and it turned out the governor was feeding them to Penny. Or if he had a situation like Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery" where people were chosen for "a dangerous mission" and didn't return and the people found out their friends/relatives were not on a mission but were Penny food. Instead, we got Zombie Games, which made no sense at all. If walkers successfully attacked a player he would die and the governor would gradually lose all of his henchmen and townspeople to zombie games. So everyone knew the zombie games were fixed. Meh. It's not exactly Caesar in the coliseum or even NASCAR if it's all rigged. I mean think about it. There are only 70 people in Woodbury. The governor can't afford to lose a number of people to zombie games. He needs them to man the fortifications and keep zombies from overrunning the place. If the townspeople are keeping zombies out by killing them, why would zombie games be entertaining? They're all involved in a big zombie game 24 hours a day. Talk about a busman's holiday.

• [quote]It would have been interesting if people in Woodbury disappeared on a regular basis and it turned out the governor was feeding them to Penny. Or if he had a situation like Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery" where people were chosen for "a dangerous mission" and didn't return and the people found out their friends/relatives were not on a mission but were Penny food. Oh shit. That would've been great. As it stands, I always thought the writers fucked up Penny's murder. Yeah she was a zombie, and yeah they were feeding her outsiders, but she was locked up, minding her own business at that point. There were more dramatic ways to kill Penny than the way they did it. Imagine if someone from Rick's group had been abducted and fed to Penny. Then the prison group would have a good/more dramatic reason to want the governor dead.

• I think most of these posts are silly. True the writing on the series is not that great at continual character development. The characters seem stilted just like in the comic books. Carl becoming harden after putting his mother down and walking around for weeks with a scowl. And it really doesn't make sense for there to be a war with Woodbury. It doesn't seem like the group values the prison because I don't see them trying to rebuild and fortify it. But what I really like about the show is the sense that planet earth is a prison is there true enemy. There is no where to run- no where to hide to get some relief from the zombies. And I'm a glad there aren't any scientists or enigeers with the group. That is another program like Lost. I like the idea of average people finding out what are they truly made of. Most people would like to think that they are heroic but who knows until the challenge is presented. Do you run away like a pussy or trip another person so you can escape. And each situation changes you.

  Anonymous

• Well? No critiques from our East Coast posters?

• The husband/father getting into it with Tyrese, he pings to high heaven! Feed him to the zombies Ty Ty!

• Wait a minute. Is the Gov chasing Andrea on Rick's turf?

• Best show on television by far with Scandal coming in a close second.

• Milton is not long for life in Woodbury now that The Governor knows he burned the walkers. He would have been better off shooting them as more of Woodbury's residents have access to guns than they do to gasoline.

• Andrea, you in danger gurl.

• Yeah, Andrea is in for a really bad night. This episode was really boring though.

• Well, that explains why the writers made Andrea so goddamn deplorable this season. They made stupid, they made her lustful beyond common sense. They just needed to set her up to be the torture victim of the Governor Sociopath. I suppose they think they're being provocative but it's another tired trope:The dumb slut gets to be raped and tortured. Ugh, They NEED a female writer on this show. And then seeing the host of the talkind dead act positively giddy about the torture chamber. Disgusting. A lot of fans were grateful the show didn't go there with Maggie and Michonne. Showing that the Gov was capable of this was enough. I sure as hell hope they don't revel in rape and torture like the comics did.

• I'm with you, R470. The end of this episode really disgusted me--it just smacked of a pervo man writing it, probably thinking, "Yeah, let's get the guy Andrea had sex with to give her the speculum and lots of SEXUAL PAIN." Ulgh. Vomit. The fact that the fanbois in Chris Hardwick's club were reveling in how "cool" the torture chair was is even more disturbing. It's no wonder that 43-year-old punkass isn't married. I wouldn't want to be hitched to a sick pervert like him.

• LOL R449

• This episode was one of the most suspenseful in a long while. I was hoping she could get out and steal the car. It's quite a shit storm when your choices are being eaten alive by walkers or captured and tortured by the Governor.

• If she didn't have another gun in her fucking purse then why does she hold onto it like a security blanket?

• I thought I saw a speculum too but the guy on Talking Dead didn't mention it when describing the tools on tv.

• It's still successful but the show has never recovered after Frank Darabont was shit canned.

• Who was voted off?

• The actor who plays Milton got a part in some series so Milton is not long for this world...

• The actress playing Andrea looked old & rough on The Talking Dead.

• Hmm...it looks like I might get my wish. At R457 I predicted the governor would torture Andrea and maybe give her the scar she has in the comics which was given to her by the serial killer that was at the prison...obviously that's not gonna work so it'd be interesting to see the governor be the one to do it.

  R457

• [quote]The actress playing Andrea looked old & rough on The Talking Dead. She also looked a lot older in the episode particularly her neck. However, I just realized she's in her 40s. I do like the actress though. She was super hot as the butch cop in Silent Hill.

• Laurie Holden looked bloated and botoxed on Talking Dead.

• Well that's disappointing, R482. Given her work for women's organizations and human rights, I'd have expected that she would abstain from that crap.

• She's An actress on HD television. She has no choice but to look as good as she possibly can. Once she gets old looking, no one will give her a job. Anna Gunn of Breaking Bad gained a few pounds and the hysteria online was unbelievable. You would have thought she was Rosie O'Donnell-sized. She wasn't. Not even close. But screams of how "fat" and "disgusting" she looked were everywhere. Actresses are held to a different standard. They need the Botox and facial fillers because everyone is looking at every last wrinkle, crows foot, bloat, weight gain, weight loss, arm circumference and ass cheek. If they don't measure up, they're "disgusting."

• Damned if they do and damned if they don't. They'll get criticized for either looking old or looking botoxed. I'd rather be accused of looking old myself.

• [quote]I thought I saw a speculum too but the guy on Talking Dead didn't mention it when describing the tools on tv. You DID see a speculum.

• I tawt I taw a putty stretcher.

  I did! I did!

• R476. Frank D. needed to be canned. It was his idea of keeping them on the farm so long and marketing the show as a male soap opera. Yawn. I thought the show was suspenseful with the Gov. becoming more creepier by the second. But there were too many suspense belief scenes. Why didn't Andrea just knock Milton to the side and take the shot to kill the Gov. She is supposed to be a sharp shooter. How did the Gov know that Andrea went into that specific building? There were others near by. The Gov was surrounded by walkers and low on ammunition but survived the walker attack? Yay right. Whereas Rick was pinned against the fence with two walkers and almost died. Doesn't make sense. The walkers are supposed to be strong. How did the Gov know that Andrea was going to be coming out of the woods at that juncture near the prison? Why did Andrea scream to alert Rick. She knows they always have someone on watch. Plus her scream would of attracted the walkers and serve as a distraction against the Governor and alert Rick that something was happening in the woods and what he saw wasn't just his imagination. You can only have one or two moments when the audience has to suspend belief. Too many times doing this and the show becomes ridiculous. And folks this show is based on a comic book and the torture chamber was real and used. So the show is giving you a very sanitized version of the comic book. Maggie and Michonne suffered greatly in the comic books. And sorry an episode with out Daryl and Rick is not a great episode. I think the show is trying to test out if other characters can carry the show. They know the audience is so attached to the Rick, Daryl and Glen characters. Most of the audience don't even care for Carl that much or the baby and the producers are trying to promote Carl as John Conners in the Terminator. Basically saying he is probably the sole survivor when the show ends. But if they want to kill off Rick and Daryl they better do that near the end of the series or the audience will abandon it and the show will be cancelled. They need more women writers and more writers who can combine action/suspense and character development at the same time. I don't want Andrea to be tortured but her character reminds me of Lori. She waited too long-until she heard that Maggie was almost raped to turn like a woman scorned. Plus she was blabbing about Rick/Shane/Lori and the baby to the Gov. Lauren Holden/Andrea on Talk Dead tried to pin the Rick baby aint his gossip on Tyrese and others. But Tyrese and his people were separated and caged. The group was distrustful of all outsiders and I can't see anyone blabbing about the baby especially since Carl seemed to be on guard with them most of the time. Andrea is unredeemable. She isn't like the character in the comic. She isn't a leader because she has bad instincts and insights into people and I think she should be killed off. But they won't do it. Probably Milton, Herschel, the two from Tyrese group will die.

  anonymous

• I agree with most of [R488]'s post. However I am totally over Rick. How much of a leader is he anyway? In hindsight Shane would have made a much better leader, he understood the stakes from the very beginning. I don't get Rick's decision to abandon the hiker, drive away Tyrese, choose to stay in the prison. I could go on. I think the show would be fine if they killed him off. A new dynamic would be interesting to see. Totally agree about the suspension of belief. Too many moments required it. Lazy writing. They cannot write women characters. Andrea's decisions make no sense. I've given up on her, but I can see the writers are trying desperately redeem her.

• Last night's Talking Dead seemed to be an hour long attempt to redeem Andrea. They likely quickly booked the actress after hearing fan reactions. Each of her explanations made less and less sense. The worst seems to be that Andrea would rather be tortured by the Govenor knowing that Michonne wouldn't be tortured. Seems like the producer's like the character and she will make it through the season, but I don't know what kind of story they can write for Andrea from now on.

• [quote]And folks this show is based on a comic book and the torture chamber was real and used. So the show is giving you a very sanitized version of the comic book. Maggie and Michonne suffered greatly in the comic books. Well duh. A basic cable show is not going to show SPOILER the Gov raping Michonne, beating her, cutting her, etc and they're certainly not gonna show Michonne sodomizing the governor, cutting off his penis, scooping out his eye ball with a spoon, cutting off his limbs and cauterizing the wounds in order to keep torturing him, etc. Maggie is not tortured in the comics.

• Shane wouldn't have been a good leader. He would kill anyone who got in his way. Good or bad. I could see Shane killing Carl if Carl became so upset with his relationship with Lori. Shane adapted quickly to the post world but he had no empathy beyond Lori and Carl. And with Judith being born- I could see him becoming jealous of Carl because he reminded him of Rick. Shane was a narrasstic. And the whole show is about how people adapt to the knew world order. Rick is the prime teller of that story. From Mister Law and Order and moral code to a world of grey. His development is the show in a nutshell. Asking the question who are you really. You don't know until you are challenged. You might think of yourself a heroic but you might be the someone like Shane who killed Otis(a person who was trying to help him and his group) to save yourself. Whereas Rick saved Shane from the school bus even after Shane tried to kill him. As for the hitchhiker. Its no different than what we do everyday in avoiding the homeless asking for money. Don't tell me you haven't done that. Rick and their group were at the point of not trusting anyone. Look what happen with Randall. Look how his bestfriend Shane turn out. Look at the prisoner Andrew. But Rick is at the point where he has to give a little and trust but verify. Look at Milton and Michonne. In their world you just can't pick up everyone. Do you pick up hitchikers- male and/or females. And they don't have anyone to lead the group besides Rick. Michonne is too iconoclastic and does things secretly. Daryl is a lone wolf who would and doesn't want to be leader. Glen is too young and a hot head emotionally. And we all know Andrea' problems. I think the show would utterly fail if they killed off Rick. No one could fill the void. And its still television. Even though the show has color outside the line a little bit by killing off characters. None of the them were vital and had much of the audience support. Television audiences still like to like their characters and root for them. And if you stab at the heart of the characters they love the show will go down hill. That has happen to a lot of shows where there has been contract disputes and the leading character leaves or gets tired of playing the same role and the shows go down hill. You can't ask the audience to invest in characters and love them and kill them off and still think you have a viable series. Even in the comics Rick and Carl remain. Killing off Rick would be like killing off Alan Alda from Mash or Jerry Seinfield from Seinfield. Or any other major character. With all the millions of dollars at stake- AMC will not allow it.

  Anonymous

• R490, it must suck to be an actor playing a character that everyone hates. It's probably hard not to take personally. That said, it's probably better than being unemployed. Here's Laurie Holden on Andrea - “I think that because the storytelling has gone the way it has at times it has made Andrea look like an idiot, and she’s not...I did not expect or anticipate such incredible backlash. That’s been upsetting at times".

• Uh, Rick's the protagonist. The minute he's killed the show ends. Everyone else is fair game.

• In the beginning when Andrea and Michonne first arrived at Woodbury, it seemed like there was a continuing motif having to do with the tea (and sometimes whiskey) that everyone was always drinking. I thought for sure they were going to expound on that, having it be that all the citizens (and now Andrea) were being kept docile and suggestible to mind-control through some kind of drugging. Michonne, however, never took the tea, and that is why she saw things more clearly. Even at that meeting with Rick at the feed store, the Gov brought some of his whiskey and I doubt it was because he's such a thoughtful guy.

• I really like Rick and Hershel. Carol and Daryl are okay and Michonne is growing on me. The rest of the characters I have no attachment to. I think if they killed off Rick the ratings would go down.

• Laurie Holden/Andrea must also be nervous since she's seen how fan reaction sped up the demise of Lori on the show.

• R491 I was addressing a post where someone was complaining on why the need for the torture chamber. And Maggie suffered in other horrific ways in the comics. Most of the character have. But I bet you won't see Rick hand being chopped off. They did it with Milton so they don't have to repeat it with Rick. You won't see any of the characters being shot as much as in the comics because on TV it's not believable that these folks could survived repeated gunshots in that environment. As for Laurie-she is just so whiny. Sarah/Lori was more gracefully and funny about the backlash she received and took it in stride. Laurie/Andrea is trying to deflect, lying and act like her character is more noble than she really is. She said that Andrea would gladly be in the torture chair instead of her friend Michonne. But when Michonne who saved her life and took care of her for 8 months said something is fishy about the Gov and Woodbury and they must leave. She turn her back on her friend and let her leave alone. Plus she was making too many excuses on Talk Dead about scenes that were cut in the previous episode that explained why she went back to Woodbury after the summit. My hold problem with Andrea is I can see her been drawn to Woodbury and the Governor. But after seeing Daryl in the walkers gladiator ring Andrea should of left with Rick and company while they rescued Daryl/Merle. And if not then- when she visited the prison and they told her about the Governor and all the things he did to them. She shouldn't waited to turn on the governor until after Herschel said Maggie was almost raped. It made her look pathetic like a woman scorned is the only reason she stopped sleeping with the Governor and turned on him.

  Anonymous

• The actress who plays Andrea had her hair scraped off her face on Talking Dead. If I were her I would have worn my hair down to show that you can also look pretty & feminine. She kept bringing up how noble and great her character was, it was a big lovefest for her character. Either they are unaware of how the audience feels about Andrea or were trying to to do some PR to get people to change their minds about her.

• r498 I was posting the same time as you and agree with everything you said about the actress who plays Andrea and how they screwed up her character

  r499

• [quote]Either they are unaware of how the audience feels about Andrea or were trying to to do some PR to get people to change their minds about her. They're definitely aware as I posted at R493. Holden says people have actually been personally rude to her on her twitter feed. Literally calling Laurie Holden a slut and other things. I don't understand how people can be so stupid that they can't distinguish between a character and an actor. Anyway, it does seem like a big PR push trying to soften Andrea which leads me to believe Andrea might be around for a while.

• I think when they showed Andrea in a thong they thought the fanboys would go crazy. Instead it backfired because she came off as a dumb slut.

• Sad end for Andrea. Poorly written female characters. Torture s not cool.

• I was also confused as to why they kept emphasizing drinking the tea and then nothing came of it, r495. I wonder the tea and the whiskey contains some immunity building property that prevents them from turning if they get biten or scratched. The Governor drinks the tea and plenty of the whiskey so I doubt it is some kind of mind controlling agent but it could act as an anti-depressant which is why everyone in Woodbury is so perky and upbeat. Also, some of those abandoned cars must have keys in the ignition and gas in the tank. Why didn't Laurie try to start one of the many cars that litter the shoulder of the road? Just running through the walker infested woods with only a knife seems like it would be a last resort. She also didn't fight too hard when he caught her outside the prison. I'd take my chances on getting shot and scream my head off for someone on watch at the prison to shoot the Motherfucker. She still had her knife. So many holes in the plot in every episode does makes it hard to understand how any of them survived this long.

• The best possible direction for this show in season 4 would be for it to diverge completely from the comic book. Bring in new locations, new characters, new stories, etc. Abandon the plot and direction of the comic book and bring the viewers people and events they are not expecting or already know the outcome of long before the episode airs.

• Most sexist show on television. It's just horrible. Which is a shame because the comic book was anything but sexist.

• R506 I totally agree with you but don't know what the problem is then. Robert Kirkman is still executive director. Is he hands off with the writers or what? Do all TV writers have a problem of writing strong female characters? I think something is wrong in the writing and directing team combo. For instance- the show should of shown more of Andrea bonding with the townsfolk of Woodbury and not just lusting after the Governor. And if something was in that tea to make everyone docile than that should have been revealed. Because Michone didn't drink the tea. I think they have too many directors who focus on different things so little threads that are established in one episode gets overlooked in the next and they loose a lot of continuity. And another issue about Andrea going to the prison. Why didn't she take the same route as before which was deep in the woods with no roads so the Governor couldn't track her.

  Anonymous

• I wonder if they will ever be able to redeem Andrea. She's going to have to do something really spectacular. For the past few episodes she's been a vehicle to establish plot points, that's all. For the storyline she needs to be in Woodbury, so in order to keep her there the writers have used every soap opera trick in the books, especially the "no clear communication" one. Lazy writing. Example: There is no good explanation why she told the governor gossip about Lori's child, for instance. Except perhaps to have the governor taunt Rick in a later episode. Her character makes zero sense unless you think of her as a clueless bimbo.

• R505 - I totally agree with you.

• I'm not usually into Asian guys, but I wanna fuck the shit out of Glenn. I wanna bend his little ass over in that guard tower and slam it on home for a 45-minute butt-fuck-a-thon. Maggie can watch if she wants. Rick, The Governor and Daryl can join in if they want.

  The Mad Butt-Fukker

• [quote]For the past few episodes she's been a vehicle to establish plot points, that's all. Exactly. She's the worst kind of writer's device.

• R475 - You did indeed see a speculum. In fact, they gave it special attention in that scene. The Governor tapped it with what looked like a periodontal scaler or curette. The implication seemed to be that the Gov planned to use the two in conjunction. Yet, as you noted, the prop master never mentioned it. I guess he (or the producers of The Talking Dead who edited the segment) were too squeamish to outright discuss the implication of planned rape and sexual torture in the episode. I guess that would get in the way of Chris Hardwick and Kumail Nanjiani(Jesus, how annoying was that guy?) being giggly about the torture chamber. In my opinion, the biggest bit of bullshit in the Talking Dead was when Laurie Holden insisted that the Gov didn't learn about baby Judith's nebulous paternity from Andrea. She blamed it on "spies" (huh? who?) or on the Governor's own ability to suss out information. Did she forget about the scene where Carol told Andrea about the circumstances of Shane's death and how it pertained to Lori and Judith? In the very next episode the Gov uses that info to needle Rick and, yet, she insists that it's absurd for the viewer to infer that Andrea spilled the beans? What? I'm sorry the writers f'ed your character this season, Laurie Holden, but it doesn't help to say stupid shit.

• DUMBEST SHOW EVER and I do mean DUMBEST, MOST LAUGHABLE SHOW EVER

• What's the big deal about Andrea? If everyone in the group was perfect all the time there wouldn't be any conflict. Kill her off because you didn't like the way she has behaved? Silly. I might things like that if I were in that shitty world and stumbled upon a place like woodbury.

• This episode sucked big donkey balls. I'd say that this season was a big turd, and if THIS is the reason why Greg Nicotero was fired (and or quit), then I'd have to say good riddance! I can't believe that someone let the show fall so far, so fast, especially with the phenomenal ratings. What a shame. So many lessons should have been learned by the awful "Hershel's barn" season, and yet here they go again, getting characters bogged down in Woodbury, with weak plotlines and poor character development. I honestly don't know what could possibly rescue this show, at this point.

• I finally saw the whole episode. I liked it. Sure we could sit here and talk about what the show could be, but why bother. I also saw the Talking Dead and WTF? Laurie Holden does not look bloated and botoxed. I could see her frown lines, crow's feet, and the "parentheses" around her mouth and I don't even have an HD TV. She looks fine though she was a little annoying in that she seems to take the whole thing so seriously.

• [quote]Uh, Rick's the protagonist. The minute he's killed the show ends. Everyone else is fair game. Actually, The comic writer said Carl is the main protagonist. I wouldn't be surprised if Rick dies in the comics one day. Ala Dumbledore style as part of Carl's passage into manhood. ~~~~ All that aside. I was reading through the comments here and begingin to think that this show is a result of[italic] too much [/italic]attention paid to audience feedback. If the writers are aware of how much hatred Lori got- then tried to redeem her by killing her off in childbirth of all things— why did they do almost the same with Andrea? As soon as Lori died, Andrea's character took a nosedive. It's almost as if she's a replacement target for the Lori hate. I actually wonder if the writers think that stupid women are something that gets the viewers all stirred up and talking about the show— that they think they have to aim for that!? Because it gets people talking and bitching about the show but it doesn't really turn them completely off it. Hell for some people, we know, they watch it more hoping to hate on someone. But seriously, This show lacks a solid direction. This is a result of the writers and PR people reacting to the audience instead of focusing on their show, developing the characters correctly, watching for plot-holes, and keeping it moving forward.

• [quote]Most sexist show on television. It's just horrible. Which is a shame because the comic book was anything but sexist. Tweet it. Speak up. The producers seem to think that 12 year-old red-neck white boys are their only audience.

• Didn't Laurie Holden say that Brad Pitt tried to arrange a date with her years ago? She made it sound like his PR people were trying to arrange (bearded) relationship but she refused. I bet she wished she had agreed, she would have been getting a lot more acting roles. I only remember her from that NBC movie "The 70s"?

• Spoiler: I bet the Gov was bitten by a walker. Look at how he was making sure his coat was button up. And that would give Andrea a chance to get out of that torture chamber because he is in the process of dying and turning into a walker. So Andrea kills him and has ultimate revenge/redemption. No one from the prison knows what happen to Andrea nor does Milton who will probably be iced soon since the Gov knows he set the walkers on fire. If this happens then the show has really jumped the shark.

  Anonymous

• I thought the same thing r520, he seemed sickly too, but I can't see how that would play out. People bitten die within 24 hours or less... Although, this would get the writers out of "going there" with the torture room. (Let's be real, most tv viewers do NOT want to see that kind of torture- or even an allusion to it actually happening.) That would leave is Andrea tied up in a room with a zombie and/or no one but Milton able to guess where she might be. Hmmmm... Ansd speaking of Milton, WHY did the director(s) bother to make it so mysterious as to who burned the zombies, only to have Milton basically confess to it as soon as he saw the Governor? That was pointless.

• And I have to say that Andrea hiding behind the door to redirect the walkers onto the Gov. was THE SMARTEST move I've seen all season on this show.

• I was the one who said Laurie Holden looked old on The Talking Dead and should have done something with her hair. She was in that 70's movie? I just remember the blonde sister but that wasn't her.

• R521 I think Amy-Andrea' sister took 2 days to turn into a walker. But it took only moments for Shane to pop up as one. So who knows. And they made the whole Milton/Gov conversation about the burned walkers so that Milton would be force again to change from not wanting to kill the Gov to killing him to save his own hide. Milton knows that the Gov knows and it's a race to see who is quicker at kill off the other.

  Anonymous

• I would find it satisfying if meek Milton finally got his spine and did the deed himself. Classic underdog scenario. If he happened to perish in the process, that would be his redemption for being the Gov's lackey and playing a part in enabling all of his nefarious deeds.

• R519, that's weird I don't think any of Pitt's gfs were ever beards. Holden strategically forgets to mention she's not interested in men.

• It looked to me like Tyrese was the one pouring the gasoline on the walkers, but maybe I'm wrong... did anyone else go back to check? They clearly showed a hand doing the pouring and it didn't look white to me...

  The%20Mexican%20Family%20%26%20The%20Hitchhiker

• It was Milton wearing gloves. The drones don't have access to gas only the the Gov's trusted circle.

• Milton said he knows the Governor since before the ZA but does he ever call him by name? I can't remember exactly how he addresses him. Were they friends with benefits?

• Honestly, r527. I rarely flame anyone for their posts but yours has to be one of the dumbest I've ever read on the DL. You really couldn't tell the person torching the walkers was wearing gloves? I think the torcher was female. Perhaps Tyrese's sister. She's quiet but not dumb by any means and she has a moral core.

• I was going to say something catty about R527, but I noticed the posters on WD threads tend to be pretty civil, but yeah it was clearly a gloved hand. And R529, yes, Milton called the Governor Philip. I don't know maybe some people are doing other things while watching so they miss things.

• Sometimes I do the Sunday crossword.

• Real cat cunts to call me out in a thread filled to the brim with "should of" and geek theory. Get a life. Jeez.

  The%20Mexican%20Family%20%26%20The%20Hitchhiker

• Why would Milton bother wearing gloves? To deflect the audience, of course. Again, laziness. These aren't characters, they're chess pieces.

• [quote]Why would Milton bother wearing gloves? So his hands wouldn't stink with the telltale odor of gas?

• I'm sorry, apparently the actress who turned down Brad Pitt (but she still has a shitty career) was Amy Smart... except for the age part, she and Laurie have that same blonde hair and blueish eyes. They could honestly be sisters

  http://image.123tagged.com/images/a/amy_smart_16862.jpg

• Here's a side by side pic of the two ladies. You cant blame me for mistaking them

  https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3165424896/hF3F4EE24/

• [quote] think Amy-Andrea' sister took 2 days to turn into a walker. No. They were attacked at dinner time. The sister was bitten, got sick and died. She started to turn as the sun was coming up and Andrea shot her.

• According to Laurie Holden/Andrea on Talking Dead- it took Amy 2 days to turn but like I said-it took Shane only moments. I wonder if the turning process is related to your aggressiveness in life. High aggressiveness means you turn into a walker pretty quickly. I changed my mind- I think Merle is going to turn soon which is a shame.

  Anonymous

• Sexy and adorable!

  https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7140403456/h4786E9C1/

• I don't blame Laurie Holden for being defensive about Andrea's character. Not only has she had people sending her rude, disgusting and bullying tweets for months, she has also gotten deaths threats from time to time (such as when her character accidentally shot Darryl) I honestly think some of the show's fanbase is partially mentally retarded at this point, blaming an actor for something their character did.

• Why hasn't Rick taught them how to hot wire a car? With so many abandoned cars strewn all over the place ONE or TWO should at least have enough gas to get them away from danger once in a while. If Laurie knew how to hot wire a car she could have stolen the Governors ride and gotten away. Also, when they do their house searches why don't they ever look for practical things like clean clothes and toilet paper, soap and toothpaste. They stay in those schmutz stained clothes forever. Nasty. Just nasty.

• I am sad to say I think the show is over. The audience will drift away quickly. Look for a cancellation next year in my opinion. TNT will pull the plug as soon as ad revenues decline.

• [quote] Milton said he knows the Governor since before the ZA but does he ever call him by name? I can't remember exactly how he addresses him. I believe I heard him call him Phillip, (or whatever his name is)

• R542 Most of the cars would have dead batteries. Since so few cars are operational, it would be difficult to jump start them.

  Mike the Mechanic

• I wish the "This is the most SEXIST show on TV" troll would go scratch her irritated cooz someplace else. It's a fictional television program you hysterical twat. Nobody is being "sexist" just because they haven't written-in a gang of angry lesbians running wild and killing all the men. Aren't there any episodes of Ellen or The L-Word you can be catching up on?

• Remember, Andrea was an attorney before things went to hell, an intelligent woman capable of convincing people. I dislike her also but when you look out over the entire cast of characters, she's really the most complex, evolved one of them all. Remember, this is the woman who insisted on killing herself early on. She's now a battle-hardened zombie killer able to fight off a herd with a simple buck knife. She's constantly conflicted but has a compass toward wanting the right, just outcome in things. Yeah, she's pretty, and the "Governor" (most lame villain name EVER) is sadistic and fucked up: so of course it isn't difficult to believe he'd want to torture her, or anyone else for that matter. Nobody here says a word when the writers develop a horrible demise for any male character or stereotypes men, which they do. Are you telling me none of the guys in the core group are squeamish about blood, etc.? One of them surely would be in real life. So let's dial-back the tiresome "Andrea is being used as a sexist device for redneck boys" bullshit. It's a poor attempt to mask someone's own classism and sexism. If you troll-dar the right person, you'll see this is all coming from one poster who apparently should stick to Bravo and Lifetime TV and staying clear of gory zombie shows.

• r453, did you mean that comment for the Southland thread?

• I meant r543, did you mean that for Southland?

  Dottie Dyslexia

• Andrea is not the most complicated person on the show. As she said in the first season episode three that what she missed most from her previous life was a vibrator. And she's been looking for a replacement every since. She thinks she's an Alpha female leader. Well guess what, leaders need to be able to size people up and she hasn't. I wish the show would dismissed her as easily as Rick and the Gov did at the summit.

  Anonymous

• R546, No. You don't get to dismiss a valid concern about the writing of the female characters on the show, using every misogynist's tactic of calling the concern a lesbian or man-hating one (or at least you don't get to without me calling your ass out in it) Seriously that tactic has been used over and again, to shut up anyone concerned about any woman's issue, and it's been bullshit everytime. I and the people pointing out the ridiculously poor and intentionally idiotic way they've portrayed their female characters are not imagining things, nor do we want the female characters to "turn into a bunch of angry lesbians running wild and killing men" Strawman much? (aside from the fact that it's disturbing enough that you're equating lesbians with killing men) But then I don't expect someone like you to realize they're using a strawman, I don't expect someone who can use the word cooze as an insult to be capable of much critical thinking. Also there have been multiple articles from both male and female authors who've clearly pointed out this shitty treatment of the female characters by the author. You're welcome to look them up (and I'm not trying to imply that because a male author wrote to backup a viewpoint of female issues that it makes that issue more valid, but to someone as anti-woman as you it probably does)

• R551, take your nerve pill and go make us a fucking sandwich. You sound like an incessant, irritating loon whom I suppose "friends" run from at the first sight of.

• Well what's interesting is that if you read the show reviews from publications like newspapers or the Atlantic or Salon or Slate, they all talk about basically how much the show sucks. Every single article I've read is negative. I hope the WD creative staff is listening.

• R551 -- please try to recognize a troll when you see one. The last thing you want to do is address one seriously. That just makes it come bobbing above water again and again, like a dead fish.

• Gay men sticking up for bloated obese Robert Kirkman and his views on women. Bravo! I didn't know Robert was such a stud in the gay community. I thought you guys had better taste. I guess I'm wrong.

  Anonymous

• [quote] I am sad to say I think the show is over. The audience will drift away quickly Guess again. There are millions of people watching Honey Boo Boo and reality shows about garbage pickers. The fanboys will stick with this show until the bitter end.There are tons of "This show is getting to me .. But I'll still keep watching because it's the best thing on TV!!!!" posts all over the web. It's zombies. It's guns. It's bad guys vs good guys. What more could the 14-29 year old male demo want, besides more nudity?

• Lots of angry cunts in this thread. DL needs to clean house, STAT.

• So I should make you a sandwich (R552), and I'm a cunt (R557), R546? Jesus, you misogynist fuckwits need to come up with something new, it's getting tired.

  R551

• Noted R554, couldn't resist this time, something about its rampant assholism just called for a verbal fuck you.

  R551

• Dear R551, I'm a female who loves Walking Dead. I don't find it misogynistic any more than I find other tv shows that way. It's soap opera with zombies. I really think you should chill out.

• Sorry, that should have been addressed to R558. My thread numbers were fucked up.

  R560

• This is why we can't have nice things!

• Girls, girls! We're all pretty!

• We'll need a new thread soon. I'd be happy to start one if the OP of this thread isn't going to do it.

• I think R551 is right on. All you Marys who are trashing him or her, do us a favor and shut the fuck up.

• [quote]Frank D. needed to be canned. It was his idea of keeping them on the farm so long and marketing the show as a male soap opera.[/quote] Unluckily, the show still IS a male soap opera. Nothing's changed, and the show's on its third showrunner. Hoping the third time will be a charm when Gimple takes the helm for S4, but I'm sadly not holding my breath.

• R541 I agree with you that Laurie Holden does not deserve those asinine death threats and rude tweets from the assholes on the Internet who are bullying her for a shittily-written character on TV. However, I do agree with an earlier poster that she does come across as whiny and overly-defensive of her character on the show--to a ridiculous degree. On last week's Talking Dead, she kept proclaiming Andrea's love for "these beautiful people" who are her "family" at the prison, and how she doesn't have a mean bone in her body and yadda yadda yadda that all other characters and all other plotlines were summarily sent to the background for almost the entirety of the show. It struck me as more than a little self-serving and piously indignant, especially considering that Sarah Wayne Callies (who played Lori on the show) was equally harrassed and bullied on the Internets for her character--to the extent that she shut down her Twitter account--yet didn't put up *half* the stink that Holden is doing about, "really, Andrea's cool, guys! Honest!" Callies just seemed to handle her character's crit with a little more dignity and class--she took it for the bullshit that it essentially is (it's about a TV character, not global warming, for Chrissakes) and moved on. That all being said, I do think the writers and producers of S3 did Andrea's character a horrible disservice. It's not Laurie Holden's fault that she has to deal with poorly-written scripts with an inconsistent tone (because each episode has a different writer AND director) and a terrible character arc. She is probably doing the best she can to play her part well and to do her job/earn a paycheck. If I were her, I'd be mad as all getout at Mazzara, Gale Anne Hurd (exec. producer), their minions, and their bullshit.

• The bean counters at AMC are to blame. They are so into cost cutting because they overspent on the renewal of Man Men and their firing of everyone on the Walking Dead has made the producers, writers and directors running for cover. The need to dedicate one writer for al the main characters-talk more to the actors ( a mini rebellion happen with the actors who play Rick/Shane) during their confrontation. The actors kind of winged it and did it there way as opposed to the writers. Kirkman is to heavy handed- and doesn't realize he is over his league in the tv medium. They don't even know how to write for Michonne-she comes across as a mute angry lesbian guy. Which she wasn't in the comics. And why did Maggie had to be the one who blabbed about the prison location. I would think a girl raise on a farm is a little tougher than a city pizza delivery guy. But they couldn't show that kind of weakness in a man. Even though Glen was complaining last season that he was frustrated because now that he was in a relationship he had to worry about another person and he froze in one encounter because of that. I think the storyline would have been more interesting if he was the one who told where the prison was located on top of not being able to protect his girlfriend from almost being rape. That would of done a number on his head and make his scenes more poignant in dealing with Maggie afterwards. And further explain why he was so wrapped up in his manliness about his women being violated than being concern about Maggie's feelings dealing with the trauma.

  Anonymous

• [quote]And why did Maggie had to be the one who blabbed about the prison location. If I recall they were about to kill Glen.

• In this cut scene, Andrea explains why she chose to stay in Woodbury.

  http://youtu.be/jJz3rMbIADk

• And they were about to rape Maggie.

  Anonymous

• she does come across as whiny and overly-defensive of her character on the show Considering how easy it is to get fired from this show/killed onscreen, I think the actress is trying her best to defend a character that she knows damn well is badly written. The show is a hit. She wants to stay employed. If she had gone on TTD and said, "I know, right? Why did Andrea do that? I couldn't figure it out, either!" she'd be admitting how bad the writing is and she'd get shitcanned.

• Exactly. They killed off Laurie (Sarah Wayne Callie's) character and the hatred for her among the fanbase is probably why. Even if Holden initially let the criticism slide off her the way Callie's did, after Callie's got killed off she probably freaked out and thought she'd be next. She is second-most hated after all. I don't blame her for being defensive, she doesn't want to get killed off the series. Walking Dead is a steady job and a steady paycheck, and I don't think Holden has ever been in a vehicle so big. Of course she's defending the character, even if it's shittily written, I think she'd rather be on the show than not.

• I agree with the last few posts. The thing with Callies is I'm pretty sure she knew she was going to get killed off, so there was no reason for her to get so defensive. This leads me to believe that Andrea will be around for a while. Also, Laurie Holden can't go on tv and say the writing is shit and the writers are fucking up her character. That would be the end of her character and it might be the end to future projects as well. Remember what happens to the actresses who bite the hands that feed? - Katherine Heigl, Megan Fox...

• So...Andrea might survive her situation. The Governor said he was going to go out looking for her again tomorrow, I assumed that was when he was going to dump the body.

• Link to the new thread....

  http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/iowa/ajax.html%23page:showThread%2C12602842%2C1

• I am hoping that something snaps Morgan back to some sort of manageable sanity and that he goes to join the gang at the prison. Hopefully that happens before the gang at the prison has to hit the road again.

• Before seeing the newest episode, I would have bet that that is a death that would have made me cheer rather than shed a tear. But I seriously caught myself getting emotional during that final scene.

• There is a new thread R578.

• Why can't you bitches finish out a thread before you fucking start a new one!?