It is difficult not to say "fuck you" to the salvation army bell ringers.

!

• I just present my hole to them, OP.

• Two wrongs don't make a right, OP. Just say nothing & keep walking.

• R2...two wrongs? Oh yes, saying "fuck you" to homophobes is a "wrong." You're a moron.

• I wouldn't let it bother you OP, you have the option of completely ignoring them and shutting them out, I know I do but then there is very little about xmas hype I am willing to buy into--too much like Pavlov's Dogs.

  anon

• Have you thought about grabbing their kettles and smashing them to the ground? Don't hurt the bell ringers as that would be assault, but you can grab those kettles and smash them to show them you mean business!

• Some of them are probably unaware about the policies and think they're doing a good thing. Yes, I realize some are probably homophobes; however, I would love to think that most are decent, uninformed folks.

• I say fuck you to them by walking by them as if they didn't exist. It's rude but I don't feel any guilt, knowing how evil the organization is. I'm also planning on going to stores late-night until after New Years, to avoid them altogether.

• Are the bell-ringers paid, or volunteers? I wouldn't feel right telling off some poor schlub who needs a few bucks, but a volunteer would be fair game.

• I saw some guy standing outside of a supermarket ringing the bell. Honestly, I think he worked for the supermarket and he was probably put in charge for it.

• I try not to make eye contact while ignoring their pleas for spare change. Fuck those homophobes.

• I do make appoint of explaining why I won't contribute. Polite, quick, to the point and then I wish them a Merry Christmas. Violence or nasty doesn't get us anywhere.

• BTW WHET Anita Ward?

• You will never win them over to our side by doing that. They will feel victimized by your behavior and they will channel that emotion into feeling justified about their current position. Their gut response will overpower their reason, just as your emotion will overpower your sense of reason if you vent on them. Trust me on this. I am a natural venter and it's gotten me into all sorts of trouble, some of which wasn't worth it.

• Just walk on by...

• I just walk by as though they're not there. They represent a bigoted organization. Why would I want to trouble my beautiful mind with that?

• Huh, R12 is also the OP! Well to answer your incongruent question, talentless Anita retired long ago after her second album failed to chart. I recently heard she's going to appear on a Donna Summer tribute album though.

• "Violence or nasty doesn't get us anywhere." Right. Act Up accomplished nothing. Neither did the anti-war protests during Vietnam, riots against racism and class oppression, etc. Only quiet 'ignoring' of oppression really teaches bigots a lesson!

• They do great work. Fuck off diseased queen.

• No, YOU fuck off, you brain-dead hater. They don't do great work, since they work against Gays and Lesbians... Asshole

  Anonymous

• Very seriously doubt that most of the bell-ringers know much of their anti-gay policies (also doubt that most would care if they did know, but that's a separate matter). They're anti-gay, but it's mostly incidental to their main purpose. In other words, they're not Focus on the Family or NOM. Very annoying that every grocery store seems to give these people space to annoy and solicit you. Also, it seems like most bell-ringers stand in climate controlled lobbies, which is weak.

• Have you considered bringing an air horn or rape whistle to blow when you walk by them?

  Have%20a%20Blessed%20Day%20

• r20, if the bell ringers, petitioners, girl scout cookie sellers, etc. are out on the sidewalk there is very little the store can do and they sometimes post signs advising customers to ignore them if they aren't interested.

  anonymous

• The people doing the bell ringing ALWAYS look poor. They're either doing it because they desperately need a job or they are doing community service

• They need to be called out on every occasion. Most people, including Gays don't know how homophobic the SA is. If they're in uniform and work for the SA, they need to be told, politely, that their organization is despicable. Some of them may not even know it.

  Major%20Barbara

• [quote]Act Up accomplished nothing. Sadly, you're right. It didn't. And I belonged to it, in NYC, circa 1991-92.

• Would someone with good verbal skills give us a good phrase to say?

• No, it's not. Actually, it's easy. Just say "fuck you, Godless bigot" and move on.

• You girls are so silly. We will just yell at them. Stick our noses in the air and walk on by. What twats. Actually there is something you can do. Yes, if they are set up on a public walkway you can't stop them. HOWEVER, when they are set up in front of a store in a mall, strip mall etc., that property is privately owned and they need permission to set up. When you see the SA at Walmart for example they have Walmart's permission. If in front of a grocery store, they need that store's permission. They did not set up a few years in front of Walmart where I live. Lots of backlash and they are back at Wally world. I don't shop Wally but if you do your target is the store that gave them permission. YOU CAN GO AFTER THE STORE. You can picket the store from the true public street, not inside the parking lot. Come on you twats, get out there and do something

• I agree because the Salvation Army requires people it helps to actually DO something for themselves. They give them a place to live, make them attend rehab and give them a job. You 'mos all want free stuff and like the welfare queens and other moochers of America, who believe in hand outs not a helping hand, can't see it any other way. We used to have self responsibility and social awareness. Now thanks to Presidents like Carter, Obama and Clinton we have the welfare moochers running the country.

• I used to say: sorry I don't donate to anti-gay charities. Which made be feel better then ignoring them like I have the problem. Until one day the at the same store the guy tried to pin me down because he said the were not and it was all a lie. I didn't want to get into a long thing with him but I am guessing he had no idea or didn't want to acknowledge it. But he denied it," were not anti-gay."

• Fact r.30 They will not hire a gay person. Their religion teaches that homosexuality is a sin. Tell them that.

  QED

• I have the feeling that a lot of the ringers don't have a clue about the Salvation Army's homophobic tendencies, figuring they're just helping out a charity that gives to the needy (which it actually does to some degree). Though, (a) a least some probably know, and (b)some of those that don't know probably wouldn't care if they did.

• [R31] There are two gay guys and a lesbian working at my SA store. Have been others over the years.

• [quote]I saw some guy standing outside of a supermarket ringing the bell. Honestly, I think he worked for the supermarket and he was probably put in charge for it. Yes, you're right r9. The supermarket manger gets to keep 40% of the money for himself.

• R31 is a liar. Get AIDS and die, freak.

• My college roomate and best friend was goig to do the ringing thing for his local Rotary Club. I called him when that article came out. He had no idea about their anti-gay beliefs. He told his Rotary Club he would not participate and asked the club to find a different holiday charity to support-like a drive for the local food bank.

• I told one of the ringer how horrid his organization was several years ago, he walked away and left the bucket.

• I've counted (and ff'd) three homophobic comments here: replies 18, 29, and 35. Disturbingly, trolldar shows that they come from three different people. Can there be that many bigots posting here, especially on a Sat. night/Sun. morning?

  Sky%20Masterson

• R29 - you need a fucking kick in the head already. I wish you'd fuck off back to freerepublic with your bullshit instead of infecting every thread here on DL. And FYI - the homelessness and welfare problem got WORSE under your exalted Reagan. Bill Clinton is credited with welfare reform and getting people off it. Maybe take an economics or history class that isn't based on revisionist theory or come from a Bible-based university.

• Sky, not only are there freelance haters who like to come here and gay-bash, there are agencies who hire and pay people to troll sites like DL promoting products and pushing political causes (mostly right-wing.) They aren't very imaginative or empathetic and tend to go for the obvious slurs. If you see a post by an obvious troll, just click the f&f link to alert the webmaster. We don't have to put up with their shit.

• Hey OP, assholes like you make those corporate policies very easy to understand. You are a douche.

• I've never had the urge to actually lay into an SA bellringer, but I have to confess I've been tempted a couple of times when approached by Cub Scouts selling popcorn or collecting bottles or whatever to tell them my nephews quit Cub Scouts because it's a homophobic organization and I'm glad they did because it turns out it's also a haven for pederasts!

• For pedophiles, R42. Pederasty isn't the same thing. But you're right about the Scouts.

• Years ago, the bell-ringers (at least in New York) were actual Salvation Army officers/ members in uniform; nowadays most of the ones I see appear to be volunteers. I doubt the latter know the fine points of what the Army believes or condemns as a Protestant denomination.

• Years ago, there was another organization that had bell-ringers. They wore cheap-looking Santa outfits. When I asked why Santa looked so different from the one in Macy's, my parents said the bell-ringer was just a Santa helper.

• Don't waste your time saying anything to a volunteer who's paid minimum hourly wage (in NYC) and may be homeless. Save it for the bell ringers who belong to the Army, they wear full uniforms. Be polite, those individuals don't make the rules, but will refer your comments to TPTB. Or slip a note in the kettle explaining why you refuse to contribute.

• To be honest, there aren't a lot of charities that don't have ties to religious organizations. I typically donate to some homeless shelters, food banks and soup kitchens this time of year, and they're all run by religious organizations who are all pretty much anti-gay. I figure the people who benefit from my donations aren't there because of their religion or religious hate for gays, they're there because they need a bed or a meal.

• [R47] You are right about your giving and the reason for. You will get a big fuck you on DL for being a traitor. The crowd here has tunnel vision, they can't see beyond themselves

• I don't care if DL people call me a traitor, R48. I'm lucky for what I have, and lucky to not have to depend on a shelter or soup kitchen. I also think of how many gay youth these organizations probably help. Some things should transcend arguments over religious Dogma.

  R47

• nothing as crazy as a salvation army defender.

• Who's defending them, R50?

• [quote]You will get a big fuck you on DL for being a traitor. The crowd here has tunnel vision, they can't see beyond themselves I agree with r47 but r48 is obviously one of those who post "Why does [bold]everyone at DL[/bold] hate blah-blah?" Since when does seven people make up a "crowd" r48?

• What R20 said. They probably have no idea. Take it up with the policy holders, not the poor shlubs working the kettle.

• [R47] The DL crowd does not recognize the gay men from lower and working class families that have trouble finding a place in society. They thumb their noses at the least of us. Not every gay man goes to the gym and tans and wears AF clothes. Not every gay man goes to gay bars and works themselves into a frenzy over such pointless topics. I personally some time ago was homeless in Washington DC. I fought for my survival and did so but without the help of some very sordid Christians groups I would not have lived.I am not a Christian, never have been, never will be. Some of those homeless men you see are gay men, some gay veterans, some suffering alcohol abuse and little is offered anywhere for men in particular where as women are given more help. I for one give to the SA without bitterness.

• The salvation army's bell ringers are just paid hourly workers who probably couldn't care less about what either you or the "Sally" is all about. Most of them are just ex-cons, parolees, or homeless men looking for quick cash.

• I keep 'play money' in my wallet for them, on it I have written, 'you play with gay rights, you get play money'. I donate to many other causes that don't mess with taking away people's rights.

• r54, for example. r51.

• and r18 of course.

• r54 is all over this thread spreading his bigoted bullshit.

• Catholics, especially the Knights of Columbus actively work and spend their tax free money to undo homosexuals. So does the Mormon church. One difference between these two groups and the SA is the SA member live very frugal lives. You will find no cathedrals and costly church buildings. Where I live a new Mormon Temple shows up very few years to go with all of the other multi million dollar Mormon temples. One of the local Catholic churches just built a new 10 million dollar Church, no expense was spared.

• [quote]The DL crowd does not... There you go again. Typical moron who thinks everyone at DL thinks alike.

• A Guide To Knowing Your Taints: 2012 Edition [quote]Are the bell-ringers paid, or volunteers? If they are wearing blue polyester suits, they are missionaries. If they are wearing normal clothing, they are most likely temps. The SA, as a church, does not pay any benefits to these people working outdoors. Prime locations are reserved for more trustworthy (paler skinned) volunteers who are less likely to break into the kettles. Trickier neighborhoods are reserved for wage slaves who might run away with all of the loot.

• [quote]Prime locations are reserved for more trustworthy (paler skinned) volunteers who are less likely to break into the kettles. That's not true. The bell ringers at my grocery store, which is in a very affluent neighborhood, are predominantly black. Go figure. I just say Hello when they greet me and keep walking. I figure that they're there to collect money so I'm most effective by not giving them what they want. Plus, I don't think the greeters are necessarily bad people. I had a friend in high school. She was actually valedictorian. Her parents were very poor. The Salvation Army furnished their home among other things and she would ring the bell outside of our local Kroger. She's extremely liberal, HATES Republicsns more than I do. She doesn't ring for them now.

• [R61] Then explain the conniption fits anytime anyone strays from the group speak? Do you just not respect opinions and thoughts other than your own?

• R62, are these SA's policies or yours?

• Okay R64. You win!!!!! [bold]EVERYONE[/bold] AT DL HAS CONNIPION FITS anytime anyone strays from the group speak. EVERYONE at DL is thrilled that you're displaying your brilliance for all to admire. You're truly amazing and EVERYONE agrees.

• They are a cult.

• [64], so if everyone agrees that racism is wrong, it's group think? It isn't group think to respect ourselves and not give money to a group that fires Gays if they find out, or refuse to help people if they admit they're Gay... Asshole.

  Anonymous

• Salvation Army bell-ringers are a mixture of actual Salvation Army members; volunteers, who may have little knowledge of the organization's political policies; and minimum-wage workers, who likely have no knowledge about the organization except that it's a supposedly good charity. Being nasty to the bell-ringers is at best counterproductive. Drop in a voucher instead.

  http://melaniekillingervowell.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/salvation-army-anti-bigot-voucher.png

• "Oh yes, saying "fuck you" to homophobes is a "wrong." You're a moron." You sound very hostile and defensive. And stupid. I think anyone seeing somebody say "fuck you" to a Salvation Army bellringer would think: "What a rude asshole! What's his problem? He must be a very unhappy person."

• No, R35, YOU fuck off and die. And then go self-righteous twat hell.

• "Are the bell-ringers paid, or volunteers?" My understanding is that they're paid. At any rate, if you don't want to donate, just walk by. That's what a lot of people do. It isn't any big deal. All this talk of violence and "fuck you" is childish and stupid. You know why there are people who think gays are dangerous, unstable people? Because of mentalities like that. Any average person reading this thread (or any of the other SA threads; how many are there now, three at least?) would probably think "Wow! I didn't know gays were such vindictive, hateful, violent people! The hell with them!"

• [quote] if the bell ringers, petitioners, girl scout cookie sellers, etc. are out on the sidewalk there is very little the store can do and they sometimes post signs advising customers to ignore them if they aren't interested. Completely incorrect. The sidewalks in front of stores are on private property, not a public thoroughfare. Ask Target. They do not allow ANY petitioners, solicitors or others to camp out and pester their customers.

• And we'd say to them, R72, that if you're going to judge all gay people by one thread on DL, then you're not particularly bright and are, most likely, just waiting for an opportunity to blurt out your homophobic feelings.

• I see SA bell-ringers, particularly this time of year, whenever I go to the supermarket or WalMart. I had no idea the SA were homophobic. What are the specifics of their homophobic practices and policies?

• The SA isn't the be all, end all of helping people. There are other organizations that aren't anti-gay bigoted assholes, feel free to give to those charities. If you feel the urge to give SA a piece of your mind may i recommend writing a note, it could be nasty or argumentative, wrap it in something that looks like a dollar bill and drop it in the kettle.

• [quote] Some things should transcend arguments over religious Dogma. NO, they shouldn't.

• [quote] There are other organizations that aren't anti-gay bigoted assholes But HOW are they anti-gay? Is it comparable to a Chic-Fil-A? How?

• Here ya go, R78. BTW, Google is your friend

  http://americablog.com/2011/12/what-the-heck-was-glee-doing-promoting-the-anti-gay-bigots-at-the-salvation-army.html

• and more

  http://theweek.com/article/index/229796/gays-should-die-a-timeline-of-the-salvation-armys-anti-gay-flare-ups

• In June 2012, Major Andrew Craibe, a media relations director for one of the Salvation Army's Australian branches, had this exchange with radio host Serena Ryan: Serena Ryan: According to the Salvation Army, [gay people] deserve death. How do you respond to that, as part of your doctrine? Andrew Craibe: Well, that’s a part of our belief system. Serena Ryan: So we should die. Andrew Craibe: You know, we have an alignment to the Scriptures, but that’s our belief.

• The Sinking of the Empress of Ireland decimated the leadership of Canada's Salvation Army. 167 SA member, including almost all the leadership, died while on their way to the big convention in England.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Empress_of_Ireland

• Bil Browning and his boyfriend were homeless. “The Salvation Army refused to help us,” Mr. Browning recalls, “unless we broke up and then left the ‘sinful homosexual lifestyle’ behind. We slept on the street, and they didn’t help when we declined to break up at their insistence.” Mr. Browning’s boyfriend was wearing a “Silence = Death” AIDS pin on his jacket, which must have tipped off the Salvation Army worker. “He told us we needed to be saved,” Mr. Browning says. “If we were willing to attend church services, he could help. We would have to break up, only one of us could stay in the shelter, and if there was room for the other, he would have to be on the opposite side of the room, and we wouldn’t even look at each other.”

  http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/24/us/beliefs-salvation-army-hears-dissent-over-gay-views.html%3F_r%3D0

• I know how to use Google, R79, but since some of you are so "educated" on these things, I was sure you could provide examples.

• And it is not difficult to say "fuck you" to them. Sotto voce takes over as I walk past one of their dingalings, and who knows what I might say.

• "Practicing homosexuals are "ineligible for full membership" in The Salvation Army.[22] However, The Salvation Army offers its services to all who are in need, regardless of sexual orientation, and opposes the abuse of people based on sexual orientation.[23] The organization also believes Christians who are attracted to the same sex should "embrace celibacy as a way of life."[24] In June 2012, a media relations officer in the Australian branch of the organization, Major Andrew Craibe, gave an interview on Lesbian and Gay radio station Joy 94.9. When questioned on Salvation Army beliefs and doctrines on sexuality, he appeared to agree with scripture that all practicing homosexuals be put to death, as it was part of the church's "belief system".[25] The Salvation Army later apologized for any offense caused by comments made by Major Craibe and reaffirmed their support in helping members the Gay and Lesbian community" Anyone can google. Here is what I googled. Think what you want about it.

• Much like the Boy Scouts, the Salvation Army's years of discriminating are coming to an end sooner than later.

  P%20R%20O%20G%20R%20E%20S%20S

• Did anyone see the organization's television ads recently? I don't remember them ever doing that. Are they aware of the bad pr?

• The bell ringers are just trying to make a buck. I find it hard to hate on individuals who are just trying to make it by.

• Does Target still ban them from their stores?

• I pour fresh semen into their kettles and use their ringers as dildos.

  Bubble%20Butt%20Bottom

• In 2001, the Salvation Army lobbied to change how the Bush administration would distribute over $24 billion in grants and tax deductions by urging the White House to deny funding to any cities or states that included LGBT non-discrimination laws. The Bush administration, to its credit, denied the Salvation Army's request.

• The Salvation Army is a legacy of the British. It's another part of the anti-homosexual culture it exported around the world in its colonial heyday.

• What a hateful thread. They do amazing work.

• Shut the fuck up, R94. You dumb ass bitch. Cunt.

• "that if you're going to judge all gay people by one thread on DL, then you're not particularly bright and are, most likely, just waiting for an opportunity to blurt out your homophobic feelings." It's not just one thread, dear. There are several threads about the Salvation Army and all of them feature very disturbed people spewing obscenities and wild accusations and unbridled hatred. Some of them seem psychotic. The charmer at R95 is a good example of these nutjobs who give gays a bad name.

• R96 needs to shut the fuck up and suck a dick.

• r95, one of these days you are going to need us in your life. The Salvation army does amazing and beautiful work.

• Please be aware that the apologists here are mostly trolls pretending to defend the Salvation Army. I do not support the Army. I recognize they do some good work, but they are a purposely naive, homophobic organization. I have a right to choose the charities I wish to support. I don't step between people who have few scruples about supporting homophobes and their right to give money to them. Of course any sensible gay person would question the judgment of other gay people who support homophobic charities, no matter how many people they feed. Again, plenty of reasonable, humane organizations both support gay rights and do excellent charitable work. Additional to the issues with the Army's determined naivete and backward-looking approach to reality (learn their history - they are purposefully reactionary), I resent their constant and noisy presence everywhere I want to shop. It is a small nuisance, but I don't go to the grocery to have people step in front of me, demand conversation, sing at me, and rattle a bell like it is a jack hammer. I know that many of the volunteers are disabled people who are being used for collections. That's one reason they act peculiar and rude. But it is tiresome. I give money directly to one woman who I see every year. I tell her it is not for the pot, it is for her. She takes it, and I feel like I am doing something good and even-handed with her. She obviously is being taken advantage of by the sect.

• [quote]one of these days you are going to need us in your life. Too bad your bigoted beliefs prevent you from helping people who love people of the same sex, making your statement empty blather.

• Tell R94/R98 what you think of her on her little thread. She reeks of Frau.

  http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/iowa/ajax.html%23page:showDirty%2C12199263%2C49

• ??

• [R99] Many have said there are organizations that actually help people that are not homophobic. Someone please name them. Are they in enough places to help people or are you talking about some obscure group in NYC? What right do you have to question the judgement of others> You say the bell ringers are in your face making demands. In my 66 years have never seen such a thing, never and I have lived all over the US. You have no knowledge to support that woman you are give money to is being used in any way. You don't know why she does what she does. When you give her money you put her in a difficult place. I am sure she is not allowed to accept money, I suspect after you leave she puts it in the pot. She might need that job and if found out she would be fired because of your selfish action that made you fell better. I don't give a shit about the army or any of you. My concern is with the homeless. I understand many can never be helped and ultimately they choose their way of life. Many people have no cushion when they fall into drug and alcohol abuse. Seems to me charity is about charity not ideology. Yet many of you would deny a bed, a blanket a coat a meal a few hours of warmth in the winter because of who provided it. You are actually working to deny help to these people. Take comfort that somewhere there is an organization that helps without the preach but it helps no one.

• convaluted thinking

• [R104] "convaluted"? Did you mean to say, me don't get it, too complex for my brain? Try convoluted

• r104, who did you vote for this past November?

• [R106] Obama Obama Obama. I used to vote the candidate not the party. In recent years I have vowed to never under any circumstances vote for a Repugnican I am sure you have been quick to make assumptions. I am not a Christian, never have been never will be. I loathe all religions equally. I believe in providing for the least among us above all else.

• Is the leadership of the SA the same internationally? Reading Paul O'Grady's (famous gay TV host/ drag queen in the UK) autobiographies at the moment and he writes alot about the SA helping AIDS charities and taking care of gay men dying from AIDS. Is the UK branch something entirely different? I don't give to the SA anyway but just curious about this.

• R108 - the SA in Canada apparently doesn't include homophobic doctrine.

• I consider myself lucky to have been born an American. I am grateful for that and try and keep reminding myself, regardless of my own modest resources how very lucky I have been. Thinking about how short and miserable the lives of millions of humans have been humbles me. If you can't generously give to the less fortunate I feel sorry for you.

• Missing. The. Point.

• [R111] You seem to have or maybe like your post, no point at all.

• There are OTHER local and national charities that feed and clothe and house the poor. There is no need to give to the salvation army. Why do people like r110 assume that those of us who are discerning in where we give our money to help others, don't give our money to help others? I give substantially. Just not to SA. Nor do I eat at Chick-fil-a or shop at Walmart. It's not hard.

• [R113] Who and where are these other organizations. Everyone talks about them, so pony up the information.

• [quote]If you can't generously give to the less fortunate I feel sorry for you. Dear heart, we do give generously; we just don't choose to give that money to an organization that practices bigotry and discrimination. Is this really so difficult for you to understand? Do we need to use smaller words? [quote]Who and where are these other organizations. Everyone talks about them, so pony up the information. There are thousands of them, dear, across the entire U.S. There are simply too many to list. Personally, I give my time and money to Northwest Harvest.

• The Red Cross Goodwill Action Against Hunger Bread for the World Coalition for the Homeless Freedom from Hunger and many many more

• r114, where'd you go?

• [R114] Impatient much? OK The goodwill provides no meals or housing anywhere I have lived. The Red Cross does not provide meals or housing for the homeless. They would rather sell donuts at disaster sites. Bread International is faith based and serves third world countries Coalition for the homeless is primarily a NYC based. In a small town near me there is a coalition and I have been to their community suppers. I can assure you we were asked to pray before eating conducted by a minister from that community. Freedom from Hunger once again serves the third world not the homeless in the US. You tried though. Now just where can I donate money that helps the homeless and needy in the USA? My focus is on Americans, veterans on the street, the needy among us.

• By the way if your house burns down the Red Cross might provide you with 50 bucks, 2 nights in a hotel and a couple of meals then you are on your own regardless of grave circumstances. I say might only, a neighbor of mine lost his house, left with the clothes on back at the time which was pj's and a robe, not even a pair of socks. He did manage to get his invalid wife out of the house. They lost their pets and the Red Cross refused to help them. I went an found clothes for him. I did secure a commitment from St. Vincents to provide more clothing for them. Once again a hateful faith based organization.

• Don't become a victim of your own generosity. Give to worthy cause that don't discriminate.

• [quote] They lost their pets and the Red Cross refused to help them. There does need to be a limit to charity you know?

• [R121] Seriously? Did you read the post. They lost their home, their car, everything they owned,not just their pets.

• [quote]Once again a hateful faith based organization. Dear heart, not all faith-based organizations are "hateful" (e.g., they practice discrimination and bigotry). Quite a few of them help people without regard to faith and without espousing discrimination and bigotry. We're not opposed to faith-based organizations, dear; we're opposed to discrimination and bigotry. Is any of this sinking in yet?

• [R123] Yes dear, I understand what you are saying. Now please don't be so retentive and tell us of what organizations you speak of. Thank you sweetie

• [quote] By the way if your house burns down the Red Cross might provide you with 50 bucks, 2 nights in a hotel and a couple of meals then you are on your own regardless of grave circumstances. I say might only, a neighbor of mine lost his house, left with the clothes on back at the time which was pj's and a robe, not even a pair of socks. He did manage to get his invalid wife out of the house. They lost their pets and the Red Cross refused to help them Perhaps if your punctuation was better we might be able to tell how much/how little help your neighbor got.

• [quote]I told one of the ringer how horrid his organization was several years ago, he walked away and left the bucket. never happened

• [R125] Please show me how it should have been punctuated please.

• [quote]Yes dear, I understand what you are saying. Do you, dear? Your rantings here indicate otherwise. Well, that, or you're letting your drama queen proclivities take charge. Or both, come to think of it. [quote]Now please don't be so retentive and tell us of what organizations you speak of. I already told you which organization I support, dear. For further information on your area, we have to know where that area is. Once you tell us where you live, we can easily do that tremendously difficult, five-minute Google search that you seem wholly incapable of doing. [quote]Thank you sweetie Anytime, snookums.

• [128] If 116 was your list you have failed to provide a single organization that helps the poor and homeless in the USA outside of NYC. Dear, we don't all live in NYC. The only people providing any support for them in my area is the SA and St. Vincent's de Paul.

• I honestly never know quite what to do when I pass a SA bell ringer. They seem so enthusiastic, and I have no reason to thing that they, as individuals, condone the SA homophobia. And they look so sad when I turn away. But the Salvation Army will never get a dime from me, that's for sure.

• [quote] We're not opposed to faith-based organizations, dear; we're opposed to discrimination and bigotry. Is any of this sinking in yet? you don't speak for everyone. Some of us ARE opposed to faith-based organizations of ANY kind and will never support them.

• R103, when you die I hope you go to a Salvation Army heaven, where you spend eternity with your ugly mug stuffed into one of their tubas as they weepingly tell you that they love all people but cannot support gay people or gay rights. Your post makes no sense here. And you, of course, are a cunt. Another cunt. Fuck you, you homophobe. You don't care about the Army but you care about the homeless. Well, you ass, there are other ways of supporting the homeless than for gay people to give money to homophobic organizations. Why can't you get that through your phony, smug head? Why are you even on the DL? To spread your cheer or post cat pictures, as well as help spread homophobia?

  R99

• [quote]If 116 was your list Trolldar is your friend, dear. I told you who I support in R115. [quote]The only people providing any support for them in my area is the SA and St. Vincent's de Paul. Dear heart, we've already told you that we're willing to do that terribly burdensome five-minute Google search that seems to be so totally beyond your capacity to make. All we need is the general location. Still waiting....

• [R133] You ninny ! Northwest harvest is in Washington State and only Washington State. FYI there are not organizations like that everywhere. They run food banks, not shelters and soup kitchens for homeless people. They aren't giving out coats or providing other services to the homeless. I have no idea what trolldar is but I know you are certainly a troll.

• What is it with you people? If you don't want to support the SA's great deeds then don't. But don't berate those of us here who have decided to set aside partisanship and focus on helping the needy. You are discriminating against them because of their beliefs and opinions. I challenge you then to pick up the slack, fill in the gap, ring all the bells, and help all those people out yourself. If you so choose to discriminate against and boycott organizations like this, at least choose ones that are actually creating legitimate harm (such as BP). Be a little more tolerant, and support free speech for CRYING OUT LOUD!!! I proudly give to the SA each year and go to sleep knowing that I have done a great service for those in need. More than you diseased lot can say.

• [quote]You ninny! Northwest harvest is in Washington State and only Washington State. Dear heart, do you really think I don't know that? You asked for groups that do the same thing that the Salvation Army does; in my area, that's Northwest Harvest and I have no problem redirecting my charitable contributions to them. You really do seem to have some trouble with comprehension. Perhaps you need to adjust your medications? [quote]FYI there are not organizations like that everywhere. So tell us where you live, dear, and we'll help you with that terribly burdensome task of finding a suitable alternative for the Salvation Army in your area. We're still waiting. Of course, we know very well why you won't provide this info.... [quote]I have no idea what trolldar is but I know you are certainly a troll. LOL.... Oh, the irony.... As for what "trolldar" is, click the link in any post on this thread, dear. It's a courtesy provided by the webmaster here.

• [quote]What is it with you people? We don't like bigotry and discrimination. Is that really so hard to understand? [quote]If you don't want to support the SA's great deeds then don't. We don't. [quote]But don't berate those of us here who have decided to set aside partisanship and focus on helping the needy. Oh, good grief. Another idiot who can't seem to comprehend the point. This has nothing to do with "partisanship." Nor does it have a damn thing to do with "helping the needy." Nobody is saying that people should completely refrain from helping the needy or donating; we are saying that that support should go to organizations that don't exhibit bigotry and discrimination. [quote]You are discriminating against them because of their beliefs and opinions. We are "discriminating" against them because they actively espouse, and spend money lobbying for, bigotry and discrimination. This isn't rocket science, although it does seem to be beyond the comprehension of Salvation Army supporters here. [quote]I challenge you then to pick up the slack, fill in the gap, ring all the bells, and help all those people out yourself. *shrug* We already do. We just choose to support organizations that don't believe in bigotry and discrimination. [quote]If you so choose to discriminate against and boycott organizations like this, at least choose ones that are actually creating legitimate harm (such as BP). Any organization that supports bigotry and discrimination does "legitimate harm." Again, this isn't rocket science. [quote]Be a little more tolerant, and support free speech for CRYING OUT LOUD!!! Saying something in ALL CAPS doesn't make your point any more compelling. The Salvation Army is free to do anything they want and to say anything they want, just as I'm free to choose to send my money and support elsewhere as a consequence of their support for discrimination and bigotry. I have no "tolerance" for bigotry, nor do I see why I should. [quote]I proudly give to the SA each year and go to sleep knowing that I have done a great service for those in need. More than you diseased lot can say. ROFLMAO.... Thanks for confirming with that last sentence that you're a pathetic troll.

• R135 is the typical "How dare you be intolerant of intolerance?!" cunt.

• Indeed

• [R137] Troll on fire so to speak

• no, r137 is schooling the troll.

• Well this group is increasingly being exposed as the hate group it really is. Hopefully, one of these days, the SPLC will classify it as such.

• I don't know who is more hateful, the SA trolls or the SA naysayers. Both are on par for extremist thinking.

• Just to clarify. The SA naysayers are not as extreme as the OP. The moronic bell-ringers are not the problem, as 99% have no idea about the anti gay agenda of the SA. So no. It is not difficult not to say "F You" to them. It's easy. The people who need to be said f you to are the SA leadership.

• It is difficult not to say "fuck you" to everyone I meet.

  80%25%20of%20Datalounge%20posters

• Interesting. So trolls are those who don't follow the group thinking established by the likes of condescending "Dear Heart" Paul and other nasty elder queens such as him. Gotcha. As said earlier - I will continue to contribute to the "hateful" and "bigoted" Salvation Army and hope they succeed in their dastardly plans to kill all gays (your words) if it means getting rid of icky elder queens like "Dear Heart" Paul. The way you people tell it - the Salvation Army is the next coming of Hitler. LOL.

  r135

• Oh, and so I can save you the trouble: r135/r146 is a troll!!!! Dear Heart!!!!! Troll!!!!! Dear Heart!!!!! Troll!!!!!! Dear Heart!!!!!! LOL.

  r135/146

• Troll defined : r147 ^ Hit troll-dar and it lights the thread up like a bug light in a mosquito swarm.

• [quote]Interesting. So trolls are those who don't follow the group thinking established by the likes of condescending "Dear Heart" Paul and other nasty elder queens such as him. No, dear; trolls are morons who cannot seem to grasp basic logic, who are unable to respond to the arguments offered here, and who resort to lame insults and attacks when challenged. This post? Q.E.D. [quote]Gotcha. No, dear, you don't. Clearly. [quote]As said earlier - I will continue to contribute to the "hateful" and "bigoted" Salvation Army Yes, dear, we know. Fortunately, people like you are dying out as support for the bigotry and discrimination practiced by the Salvation Army decreases. [quote]and hope they succeed in their dastardly plans to kill all gays (your words) No, dear; their words. Do try to keep up, won't you? [quote]if it means getting rid of icky elder queens like "Dear Heart" Paul. ROFL.... Whatever you say, dear. [quote]The way you people tell it - the Salvation Army is the next coming of Hitler. LOL. Thank you for confirming that you're a troll, dear. It's been ever so much fun winning the argument. Perhaps next time you should engage your brain before you post? Better to be thought a fool than to post here and confirm it.

• Anyone you don't agree with is a troll it seems. Those claiming others are trolls are the real trolls. Why all the SA thread to begin with?

• No, R150. It's not "anyone you don't agree with." It's anyone who is unable to muster a coherent argument, who persistently ignores what people are actually saying and instead goes after strawmen, who responds to counter-arguments with personal attacks, who writes, "More than you diseased lot can say." That's a troll.

• Why the tread was started?

  http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/13526559-salvation-army-accused-of-antigay-stance

• What argument could we possibly muster for a pathetic creature like you, Paul? Some of us choose to give to the SA and that's that. There is no argument to be made. I choose to support the bigotry of the SA. That's what you want us to write so there - it's written. Thread closed. Now begone.

• Just stand next to them and tell the public the truth about the SA.

• Stop talking to "Paul". It's a fucking troll and you will never please it. This thread is so offensive; especially as it's Christmas. God bless the Salvation Army and other charities that do the work of saints. Webmaster, shut it down, asshole.

• Trolldar R153 and take a look at some other threads: he objected to same-sex marriages at Westpoint, atheists, brayed about "real Americans" on a thread about FDNY, etc. Do you really want to argue with someone like that?

• [R155] Sorry, you aren't allowed an opinion here.The real trolls control the boards by calling everyone else trolls.

• What is your point, r156. I don't speak the liberal lies and you attack me?

• [quote]What argument could we possibly muster Dear, we already know you're a troll and that you are wholly incapable of mustering a coherent argument. You really should stop posting; you're just digging that hole deeper and deeper. [quote]for a pathetic creature like you, Paul? Thank you for proving my point, dear. [quote]Some of us choose to give to the SA and that's that. Yes, dear, we know. We're simply calling you on your support for discrimination and bigotry. And instead of simply accepting that, you have to engage in these rather pathetic and lame attacks. [quote]There is no argument to be made. Yes, dear, we know. There is no good argument in support of bigotry and discrimination. [quote]I choose to support the bigotry of the SA. Yes, dear, we know. [quote]That's what you want us to write so there - it's written. Dear heart, we already knew that. [quote]Thread closed. Now begone. LOL.... Sorry, dear, but us nasty, icky, elder, diseased queens don't disappear so easily. Sorry to disappoint you.

• [quote]Stop talking to "Paul". It's a fucking troll and you will never please it. Dear heart, why should I be "pleased" at support for bigotry and discrimination? It seems that you, too, like the other SA supporters, is incapable of comprehending this very simple point. [quote]This thread is so offensive So? [quote]God bless the Salvation Army and other charities that do the work of saints. God doesn't bless those who engage in discrimination and bigotry, dear; she told me so herself. [quote]Webmaster, shut it down, asshole. ROFL.... Oh, yeah, that will work... Man, we get some of the dumbest trolls here...

• [quote]Sorry, you aren't allowed an opinion here.The real trolls control the boards by calling everyone else trolls. We're still waiting for you to tell us where you live so that we can help you with that enormously complicated Google search for other charities that don't engage in discrimination and bigotry. Any time, now.

• [quote] I don't speak the liberal lies and you attack me? LOL.... And yet, you are unable to come up with a single "liberal lie." Yup, definitely a troll.

• This "we need everybody to like us or else we won't like you, and we'll even go out of our way to get other people not to like you" attitude has just gone too far by parts of the gay community. There is value in respecting each other and agreeing to disagree rather than boycotting everyone you don't like (same goes for certain Christian groups boycotting everyone they don't like too). The Salvation Army is trying to help the poor and needy for goodness sakes! Let them do that in peace!

• You will never change a belief system with hatred. You will never be heard. Everyone is capable of evolving, even the SA but not at the end of a prod. Honey not knives.

• [quote]This "we need everybody to like us or else we won't like you, and we'll even go out of our way to get other people not to like you" attitude has just gone too far by parts of the gay community. Sigh.... And yet another idiot who seems incapable of grasping the point. The Salvation Army practices discrimination and bigotry and has spent millions lobbying so that they can continue to practice discrimination and bigotry. This has nothing to do with "need[ing] everybody to like us." What is it with you idiots and these same pathetic strawman arguments over and over again? Are you really incapable of grasping such a simple point? [quote]There is value in respecting each other and agreeing to disagree rather than boycotting everyone you don't like "There is value in respecting each other and agreeing to sit at the back of the bus." "There is value in respecting each other and agreeing to sit at a segregated lunch counter." "There is value in respecting each other and agreeing to use a segregated water fountain." "You just need everyone to like you; that's why you're boycotting those bus companies." Is any of this sinking in? [quote]The Salvation Army is trying to help the poor and needy for goodness sakes! Let them do that in peace! Not so long as they continue to advocate and lobby for discrimination and bigotry. I will continue to point out those despicable practices, will direct my charitable giving elsewhere, and will continue to lobby my friends and family to do the same. The nice thing about this is that we will win. Support for discrimination and bigotry has been dropping year by year. At some time, the tipping point will finally be reached and organizations like the Salvation Army will have to either abandon their discrimination and bigotry or disappear. It's going to take years but it is a fight worth having.

• [quote] You will never change a belief system with hatred. You will never be heard. Everyone is capable of evolving, even the SA but not at the end of a prod. Honey not knives. Oh, so we could've just offered Gestapo pots of honey when they came for us?

  Holocaust%20survivors

• [quote]You will never change a belief system with hatred. Good thing I'm not practicing "hatred" then, isn't it? I'm simply pointing out the truth. [quote]You will never be heard. Um, the annual articles on this rather seem to contradict this point. [quote]Everyone is capable of evolving, even the SA but not at the end of a prod. Honey not knives. There's nothing wrong with employing both tactics. Hitting 'em where it hurts, in the pocketbook, is a time-honored way of getting attention. It often fails, for one reason or another, but it has also succeeded at various times. The Salvation Army will change; it's just a matter of time.

• I will continue to give to the Salvation Army. I'm in it for blessing the poor and needy not to make a social or political statement. I could care less if they are supposedly bigoted. It's about who they help not who they hate. If they irk you ignore them and move on. It's really that simple. Did we really need a close to 200 post thread about this?

• Agreed r168. I wonder if gays and lesbians will be boycotting the second coming of Christ as well. Probably so! The Salvation Army has the one of the lowest costs of overhead for any charity. The highest percentage of donations go to those intended to receive it. In this economic hard time there are more people needing help than any time since the great depression of the 30's. Growing up as a child of 4 children and a single parent in a disadvantaged family I can tell you first hand that Salvation Army needs and deserves every dime they can raise, regardless of your political agendas. And as a member of a civic service organization I ring the bell in our small town and they have always tolerated my sexuality. Never once have I felt discriminated against.

• what are the odds r169 is r168 after clearing his/her cookies? Pretty high, I'd say.

• [R69] That is true, the members live very frugal lives. They don't build temples to themselves like the Catholics and the Mormons.It should be noted that Mormons are only charitable to Mormons. Gays love Christmas and will tell you they found a church that accepts them. Bull shit. They are celebrating the very same religion that has tried to undo them. Talk about hypocrisy.

• R97's moronic, potty-mouthed ravings are simply proving R96's point: disturbed individuals like him give gays a bad name. Hell, they give HUMANITY a bad name.

• The troll at R115, R123, R128, R133 (there are many more) who is so fond of "dear" and "dearheart" is one of the most unbearable twats I've ever seen on Datalounge. Really, this person seems like one of those misfits that other people avoid like the plague.

• Project much?

• "Not so long as they continue to advocate and lobby for discrimination and bigotry. I will continue to point out those despicable practices, will direct my charitable giving elsewhere, and will continue to lobby my friends and family to do the same." They DON'T "advocate and lobby for discrimination." That is a lie. I've noticed that all the supposed hard evidence of how the SA hates gays and wants them all dead is mostly heresay and propaganda and outright lies. Oh, there was that poor guy who was cornered by a couple of rabid SA haters and put his foot in his mouth, but he's not representative of the SA as a whole. That's just it: what's being said on threads like this is that the SA is an evil, biased organization intent on wiping out gays from the face of the earth with their "bigotry" and "discrimination" practices. And THAT is indeed a lie. "Your friends and family?" I doubt that you have any friends or family. You seem like a very alone, very angry, miserable human being filled with hatred. And judging from your obsession with hating the SA you must a lot of time on your hands. You should take up a hobby or something. That would be a positive step towards dealing with your anger and loneliness.

• ...time to clear your stale cookies again, silly.

• [173] LOL, as he trolls the thread he accuses everyone else of being a troll. I don't even know what a troll is supposed to be.

• [quote]is one of the most unbearable twats I've ever seen on Datalounge. Really, this person seems like one of those misfits that other people avoid like the plague. Oh, dear. I'm just so terribly wounded by your assessment. I think I'm going to cry. However will I survive? [quote]They DON'T "advocate and lobby for discrimination." That is a lie. Sorry, dear, but it's not. Their behavior and their lobbying have been well documented. You can close your eyes and ears and pretend otherwise but reality will still remain reality, regardless of how much you wish it away. [quote]I've noticed that all the supposed hard evidence of how the SA hates gays and wants them all dead is mostly heresay and propaganda and outright lies. Then you haven't been paying attention. [quote]That's just it: what's being said on threads like this is that the SA is an evil, biased organization intent on wiping out gays from the face of the earth with their "bigotry" and "discrimination" practices. And THAT is indeed a lie. If anyone actually said that, you might have a point. However, that isn't what we are saying, so your point is moot. Just another lame strawman argument because you guys just cannot deal with the truth. [quote]I doubt that you have any friends or family. You seem like a very alone, very angry, miserable human being filled with hatred. ROFL.... This is hilarious shit. I can't wait to see what you come up with next. [quote]And judging from your obsession with hating the SA you must a lot of time on your hands. You should take up a hobby or something. That would be a positive step towards dealing with your anger and loneliness. Thanks ever so much for your advice. I'm just ever so touched by your concern. I'll be sure to give your suggestions exactly the attention they deserve. Oh, and thanks for continuing to confirm my point about supporters of SA here. Lame attacks? Check. Strawman arguments? Check. Refusal to deal with reality? Check. Q.E.D.

• F&F r178. Enough of this troll.

• [quote]I will continue to give to the Salvation Army. I'm in it for blessing the poor and needy not to make a social or political statement. Dear heart, it's possible to do both. I, too, am in it for "blessing the poor and needy" but I do so by assisting organizations who don't engage in bigotry and discrimination. [quote]I could care less if they are supposedly bigoted. Thankfully, there are fewer and fewer people like you every year. [quote]It's about who they help not who they hate. As noted, it's about both. [quote]If they irk you ignore them and move on. It's really that simple. "If they ask you to sit in the back of the bus, ignore them and move on. It's really that simple." [quote]Did we really need a close to 200 post thread about this? That's what you get when you support bigotry and discrimination and try to defend the indefensible.

• cheering on r180.

• It's not a surprise that R179/R169 on another thread thinks that two Lesbians marrying is 'ungodly.'

  http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/iowa/ajax.html%23page:showThread%2C12201370%2C1

• No. Not at all a surprise.

• LOL @R179. Too funny, particularly considering his other post. Isn't it interesting how they cannot seem to handle disagreement but have to resort to personal attacks and strawman arguments? [quote]I wonder if gays and lesbians will be boycotting the second coming of Christ as well. Probably so! ROFL... Q.E.D. [quote]The Salvation Army has the one of the lowest costs of overhead for any charity. The highest percentage of donations go to those intended to receive it. Actually, that's not true, although the real data are very difficult to find since the Salvation Army is not required to, and does not, provide such information. [quote]In this economic hard time there are more people needing help than any time since the great depression of the 30's. Another lame strawman argument since nobody is recommending that people stop supporting the needy. [quote]Growing up as a child of 4 children and a single parent in a disadvantaged family I can tell you first hand that Salvation Army needs and deserves every dime they can raise, regardless of your political agendas. Appeal to emotion and another strawman argument. Is this really the best you can do? [quote]And as a member of a civic service organization I ring the bell in our small town and they have always tolerated my sexuality. Never once have I felt discriminated against. Anecdote is not the plural of data, dear.

• r181 is r180 with his cookies cleared. Just ignore the Paul/Dear Heart troll and maybe it will wither and die. Kudos to all those who continue to give to the Salvation Army. Who cares if some of their members hate gays. It's about who they help - not who they hate. I've seen first hand that they help more than most institutions combined.

• GET LOST, JESUSCUNTS! Go spread your lies and support of gay-hate somewhere else. This site is not for you. BTW - your mother sucks cocks on hell.

• Oh, dear heart, Paul - is r186 one of your precious acolytes? Such reason and logic. LOL.

• My god, this thread is tedious! I'm still unclear HOW they discriminate? If it's simply a belief then sorry that's idiotic and as a gay man I can't stand behind it. If they ACTIVELY do something to attempt to educate the public against gays .... then I'm all for a boycott. Sorry but this call for a boycott doesn't provide enough information for my support. I've boycotted the Canadian Red Cross for active discrimination ... gay men can not give blood. I am NOT going to boycott a group that holds a private ignorance against gay marriage. until they actively promote this perspective Ii have no grounds to participate in a boycott just because someone says they don't like gays. I'm bigger than that and so is the gay movement. Add soime education to the call or don't waste peoples time.

• [quote]with his cookies cleared. ROFL.... Sorry, dear, but, just like your other posts on this thread, this point is entirely false. [quote]Just ignore the Paul/Dear Heart troll and maybe it will wither and die. Can't follow your own advice, can you, dear? And thank you for once again confirming my point about the trolls who support the SA here. Once again, Q.E.D. [quote]Kudos to all those who continue to give to the Salvation Army. Yes, because supporting bigotry and discrimination is just such a praiseworthy occupation. [quote]Who cares if some of their members hate gays. Oh, you mean like the leaders of the organization, dear? The people who actually run the group? Those "some of their members?" [quote]It's about who they help - not who they hate. As noted repeatedly, it's about both, dear. Do try to keep up. [quote]I've seen first hand that they help more than most institutions combined. Actually, you haven't, of course. Just another false statement amongst the many. And if the money goes to those other institutions, gee, guess what happens?

• Find another site to troll for your sky fairy, Jamie. Fucking psycho.

• r135. Why do you think two women marrying is "ungodly"?

• The little turds that keep being left behind here by trolling or Army-apologist asses sure stink up the DL. Note the one who is too lazy to do a Google search and fine the Army's policy on gays and gay rights. Note the clown who keeps saying that it doesn't care about homophobia because of all the good the Army does. If you don't get the point that one can be charitable without supporting an organization that is against equal rights for gays, then you don't belong here. You don't belong here because you are either homophobic yourself, a frau, or so stupid you're just an irritant. And if you're a troll, well, that's it's own reward, isn't it? Fuck the Salvation Army. It is a backward, naive sect that is against gay rights, under the familiar guise that being gay is unchristian. Fuck that shit, and fuck them.

• From a few years ago: The Bush administration is working with the nation's largest charity, the Salvation Army, to make it easier for government-funded religious groups to discriminate against gay people in hiring, according to an internal Salvation Army document. The White House has made a 'firm commitment' to the Salvation Army to issue a regulation protecting such charities from state and city laws that prevent discrimination against gays in hiring and domestic-partner benefits, according to the Salvation Army report. In turn, the Salvation Army has agreed to use its clout, including intensive lobbying of Congress, to promote the administration's faith-based initiative, which seeks to direct more government money to religious charities. ... "The 'Army's objectives,' the report says, are to make sure states and localities cannot impose sexual-orientation protections on religious nonprofit groups. The protections include hiring discrimination and equal benefits for domestic partnerships. ... The report also offers an image of the Salvation Army starkly different from that of volunteers ringing bells outside shopping malls at Christmas - a notion that concerns the charity. "The Salvation Army's role will be a surprise to many in the media," it says, urging efforts to "minimize the possibility of any `leak' to the media." The Salvation Army projects spending between $88,000 and $110,000 a month in its effort to boost Bush's faith-based initiative. It has hired various lobbying and strategy concerns to help with the effort.

• Answer the question r135.

• From a few years ago: The Salvation Army Western Territory approved a plan in October 2001 to start offering domestic-partnership benefits to gay employees. ... In November 2001 The Salvation Army nation wide rescinded the Western Territory's decision with an announcement that it would only provide benefits coverage for different-sex spouses and dependent children of its employees.

• From a few years ago: In 2004, The Salvation Army said they would close operations in New York City unless it was exempted from a municipal ordinance requiring them to offer benefits to gay employees’ partners.

• From quite a few years ago, in New Zealand: Before the passing of the Homosexual Law Reform Act in 1986, the Salvation Army was active throughout the country gathering signatures for a petition seeking to prevent the bill's passing. Note: it took 20 years for the Salvation Army leadership to acknowledge the effect of their bigotry and even then, they didn't apologize for their opposition; they simply acknowledged that it was "hurtful" to some.

• My God that troll called Paul is incredible tedious.

• "Dear heart, it's possible to do both. I, too, am in it for "blessing the poor and needy" but I do so by assisting organizations who don't engage in bigotry and discrimination." Dear heart, take your "dear heart" and shove it up your insane Mary ass. Your neverending posts only further expose you as the disturbed, obsessed, weirdo freak that you are. You need help. Get some, if not for your sake, for the sake of those unfortunate enough to have to endure your presense. God help them. God HELP them.

• [quote] The Salvation Army projects spending between $88,000 and $110,000 a month in its effort to boost Bush's faith-based initiative. It has hired various lobbying and strategy concerns to help with the effort. That's what the money you drop in their kettles pays for. Not to help people in need.

• "My God that troll called Paul is incredible tedious" Tedious, yes. Also crazy. A complete wack-a-doo. That's painfully obvious. Now watch him start a thread quoting me and calling me "dear" or "dearheart." Just watch.

• [quote]My God that troll called Paul is incredible tedious. And apparently I have enormous power over you since I obviously forced you to read every post in this thread. Can you ever forgive me? [quote]Dear heart, take your "dear heart" and shove it up your insane Mary ass. ROFL.... Whatever you say, dear. And, of course, this post of yours is the very epitome of reasonableness and sanity. Thanks ever so much for making my point for me. [quote]Your neverending posts only further expose you as the disturbed, obsessed, weirdo freak that you are. You need help. ROFLMAO.... Your concern for me touches me deeply. I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate your advice. I assure you that I will give it all of the attention it deserves. [quote]Get some, if not for your sake, for the sake of those unfortunate enough to have to endure your presense. God help them. God HELP them. Oh, you poor dear. I've somehow trapped you, as well, and forced you to read every word I type. I'm so sorry, dear; I'll never forgive myself for the pain I've inflicted on you. I'll simply be up all night agonizing over it. [I do wonder about these two... do they really not understand the term "projection"?]

• [quote]The Salvation Army projects spending between $88,000 and $110,000 a month in its effort to boost Bush's faith-based initiative. It has hired various lobbying and strategy concerns to help with the effort.

  No%20Sale

• We like Paul. We don't like anti-gay trolls propping up unapologetically anti-gay organizations like the SA.

• The thing that is sickening about Paul is that he actually berates those of us have first hand knowledge of the good that the SA does in this country. Very little of their overhead goes for administrative costs. Almost all goe to help the needy and the homeless.

• Insane you are, anti-Paul troll.

• [quote]The thing that is sickening about Paul is that he actually berates those of us have first hand knowledge of the good that the SA does in this country. Why is that "sickening?" Their good works do not excuse their bigotry and discrimination. There are too many other organizations out there that do equally good work and don't discriminate. [quote]Very little of their overhead goes for administrative costs. Almost all goe to help the needy and the homeless. Actually, you don't know this because the Salvation Army will not release this information. Since they are considered a church first and a charity second, the IRS does not require public disclosure and the Salvation Army does not disclose. Estimates range from 15% to 35% of their money going to administrative costs, which is just okay, not outstanding.

• Direct from The Salvation Army's position statement: TSA upholds the dignity of all persons. For this reason, and in obedience to the example of Jesus Christ, whose compassionate love is all-embracing, The Salvation Army does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation in the delivery of its services. I will continue to give to them and be at peace with my donation. You give to your alternative groups and be at peace with that. Why all the condescension and nastiness towards those of us who have no problem with the salvation army. There is zero proof of their bigotry or homophobia no matter how many bogus links you post. Begone, troll.

• [quote]Direct from The Salvation Army's position statement Well, see, there are two problems with that: the first is that we have numerous examples where their actions directly contradict those words. And the second is that they do, in fact, discriminate when it comes to the people who work for them. Not only do they discriminate, they have spent millions lobbying for the right to continue discriminating and have threatened any community that seeks to enforce anti-discrimination ordinances. Now, what was your point again? [quote]I will continue to give to them and be at peace with my donation. Dear heart, there was never any doubt that you would continue supporting bigotry and discrimination. You and your ilk on this thread have made that abundantly clear. Why do you think you're getting the reaction you have? We know not to take you seriously; we know you're not interested in the facts; we know you're not interested in fighting bigotry and discrimination. Hence, the mockery and the derision. [quote]You give to your alternative groups and be at peace with that. We will, dear, thanks. [quote]Why all the condescension and nastiness towards those of us who have no problem with the salvation army. This isn't rocket science, dear: you're supporting discrimination and bigotry. Those of us who face such discrimination and bigotry every day tend to frown on the organizations that engage in it. Is this really so difficult for you to understand? [quote]There is zero proof of their bigotry or homophobia no matter how many bogus links you post. ROFL.... I do so love the denial these morons engage in as they try desperately to defend their support for discrimination and bigotry. "Don't confuse me with facts! My mind is made up!" [quote]Begone, troll. You keep using that word; I don't think it means what you think it means.

• [quote]I will continue to give to them and be at peace with my donation. Oh, and a free clue, dear: someone who truly is "at peace" with their donation wouldn't be posting here so defensively.

• be·gone (b-gôn, -gn) v. Used chiefly in the imperative to express an order of dismissal. As in get the fuck out of my sight, dear heart.

• Wait, wait, wait. So you're telling people not to donate to a charity simply because you disagree with their views on homosexuality. I bet the people they help could care less about what their views are. And that is what really matters in the end.

• Thank you, R210. Someone doth protest too fucking much.

• What you are saying R212 is that it shouldn't matter whether organizations are bigoted. If they were racist would you say the same thing? Misogynistic? Anti-semitic? What bigotry is okay with you and what isn't? Are you only okay with being being bigoted against gay people? That's okay right? We don't really deserve equal treatment and rights as everybody. Either bigotry is okay, or it isn't. Period. Either you believe gay people deserve to be treated the same way as everyone else or you don't. Period.

• None of the so-called evidence against the SA compels me to believe that they are bigoted. Sorry. We just went through one of the worst recessions in history and - despite what some would have you believe - many are still hurting. Salavation Army leadership has never let up in their fight for the downtrodden. Put aside your petty sexual identity politics for a couple of months and admit that we need this organization despite what they think about us. If you can't do that - you are heartless and I'm glad I don't know you.

• "Insane you are, anti-Paul troll." Go suck Paul Dearheart's dick, you dumb cunt.

• "We like Paul. We don't like anti-gay trolls propping up unapologetically anti-gay organizations like the SA." You don't speak for the masses, dumbfuck. I'd say quite a few people detest "Paul." By the way I think that's the name he WANTS to have; his real name is probably something along the lines of Wilbur or Bubba.

• LOL, r216.

• "Whatever you say, dear. And, of course, this post of yours is the very epitome of reasonableness and sanity. Thanks ever so much for making my point for me." No, you made HIS point. His point is that you're a piece of shit who loves to annoy people. I'd say that poster sounded pretty annoyed, as anyone would be, dealing with the likes of you, pathetic, maladjusted queen that you are.

• r215 pretty much sums it up for me and I bet a lot of people. There is nothing about SA's beliefs or current practices towards gay people that would compel any decent human being to withhold their annual donation to this goldstar charity.

• Sad that anti-gay bigots are allowed to take over what used to be one of the few refuges for gays on the net.

• Yes, and R220 also supports the "pray the gay away" therapy. So, begone and shove a crucifix up your ass!

• Link to anti-gay postings? TIA.

• I wish I had Paul's address. He wouldn't be posting here or anywhere anymore if I knew where he lived.

• [quote]Wait, wait, wait. So you're telling people not to donate to a charity simply because you disagree with their views on homosexuality. Nope, we're telling people to not donate to a charity that practices discrimination and bigotry. I'm curious: this really is a very simple point and yet none of you SA supporters seem able to grasp it. Why is that? [quote]I bet the people they help could care less about what their views are. And that is what really matters in the end. So we're supposed to turn a blind eye to discrimination and bigotry because the organization also helps people? Sorry, we don't play that game. We'll take our money and our support elsewhere, thanks. [quote]None of the so-called evidence against the SA compels me to believe that they are bigoted. LOL.... Love the "so-called" bit there. Dear heart, your refusal to face facts doesn't make the data any less real. [quote]We just went through one of the worst recessions in history So? Feel free to contribute to those organizations that don't practice discrimination and bigotry, as the rest of us do. Again, another lame strawman argument. [quote]Salavation Army leadership has never let up in their fight for the downtrodden. So? They have also have never let up in their fight to continue to support bigotry and discrimination. [quote]Put aside your petty sexual identity politics for a couple of months and admit that we need this organization despite what they think about us. Um, no, actually, we don't. There are plenty of other organizations that will pick up the slack if the money is directed their way. And fighting discrimination and bigotry is not "petty sexual identity politics," although it's very revealing that you're calling it that. Says a lot about you. [quote]If you can't do that - you are heartless and I'm glad I don't know you ROFL.... And another logical fallacy. Man, these guys can't even come close to mustering a coherent argument, can they?

• [quote]There is nothing about SA's beliefs or current practices towards gay people that would compel any decent human being to withhold their annual donation to this goldstar charity. July 2012: [quote]Salvation Army Media Director: Gays Should Be Put To Death

  http://www.queerty.com/salvation-army-director-says-gays-should-be-put-to-death-20120625/

• Fuck off back to Freeperville, R224. You're not welcome here.

• Sounds like a threat R224. How Christian of you.

• "No, dear; trolls are morons who cannot seem to grasp basic logic, who are unable to respond to the arguments offered here, and who resort to lame insults and attacks when challenged. This post? Q.E.D." No, trolls are assholes who think they know everything but are mentally challenged and keep repeating themselves: "Bigotry! Discrimination! Dear heart! Dear! Discrimination! Bigotry! Dear! Dear heart! Bigotry, discrimination, bigotry, bigotry, bigotry, discrimination, discrimination, discrimination, dear, dear, dear, dearheart, dearheart, dearheart, dearheart...."

• "I wish I had Paul's address. He wouldn't be posting here or anywhere anymore if I knew where he lived." I think a lot of people probably feel the way you do. I bet everyone he knows prays daily for him to get hit by a truck.

• The jesuscunt troll as usual can't reply to ANYTHING factual or logical, it just has to concentrate on "Paul". Fuck off churchy. You have nothing to add here but troll diarrhea. Eat shit and go pray about it.

• [quote]I'd say quite a few people detest "Paul." Oh, probably. Certainly, the SA supporters on this thread who have been exposed for supporting bigotry and discrimination and, so far, haven't been able to muster any coherent counter-argument are annoyed. Sucks to be them. [quote]By the way I think that's the name he WANTS to have; his real name is probably something along the lines of Wilbur or Bubba. Nothing wrong with either of those, of course, but I'm afraid your accuracy on this matches your accuracy on your other statements, and the accuracy of your cohorts here; my name actually is Paul. [quote]No, you made HIS point. LOL... Well, sure, if you're a moron. To the rest, not so much. [quote]His point is that you're a piece of shit who loves to annoy people. No, dear, I'm not. I'm a "piece of shit" who loves to annoy trolls and idiots and who has a lot of fun doing so. And, thankfully, you guys have been giving me plenty of ammunition in this thread. [quote]I'd say that poster sounded pretty annoyed Yes, dear, I know, which was precisely my point. Thank you for conceding that. [quote]as anyone would be, dealing with the likes of you, pathetic, maladjusted queen that you are ROFL.... Q.E.D. Sorry, dear, but anyone who is bothered by anything written in a forum like this is simply demonstrating their own issues. It's just words, dear. If any of you really were confident in your views and in yourselves, you'd be laughing at the silliness, as I am, not displaying the kind of behavior you and your counterparts are exhibiting.

• [quote]There is nothing about SA's beliefs or current practices towards gay people that would compel any decent human being to withhold their annual donation to this goldstar charity. Well, sure, except for their support for discrimination and bigotry. To those of us who face that discrimination and bigotry on a daily basis, that takes away the "goldstar" [sic] from this charity. YMMV.

• [quote]I wish I had Paul's address. He wouldn't be posting here or anywhere anymore if I knew where he lived. ROFL.... Oh my, I'm just so terrified. I'm quivering in my jammies. How will I ever sleep? You're just so awash with testosterone, how can I possibly compete? Free clue, dear: empty threats like this just make you look silly.

• [quote]No, trolls are assholes who think they know everything but are mentally challenged and keep repeating themselves ROFL.... And yet, so far, none of you has been able to come up with a coherent counter-argument. I mean, surely if I'm so "meantally challenged," it should be a piece of cake to deal with me, right? Alas, all you have is strawman arguments and rather pathetic personal attacks. Oh, and, apparently, a lot of unresolved anger and defensiveness. You really should work on that, dear; it's just not good for you.

• [quote]I think a lot of people probably feel the way you do. I bet everyone he knows prays daily for him to get hit by a truck. LOL.... And they claim that *I'm* a "hater?" The mind boggles....

• Counter-argument to what? After reading everything that you have posted - I am still not compelled to withhold my SA donation that I give every year. I don't understand what counter-argument you're looking for, dear heart. I don't believe that the SA is bigoted. That's pretty much it. What else is there to discuss?

• [quote]Salvation Army Media Director: Gays Should Be Put To Death

  http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/06/salvation-army-official-gays-deserve-death/53885/

• So there!

• [quote]Counter-argument to what? To their past history of bigotry and discrimination, dear. [quote]After reading everything that you have posted - I am still not compelled to withhold my SA donation that I give every year. Yes, dear, we know. That was never in doubt. That's why we don't take you seriously and why we're mocking you and having fun with you. [quote]I don't understand what counter-argument you're looking for, dear heart. Yes, dear, I know. That's what makes this whole discussion so hilarious. The combination of arrogance and ignorance is irresistible. [quote]I don't believe that the SA is bigoted. Yes, dear, we know. It's amazing how much you miss when you close your eyes and ears, isn't it, dear? [quote]That's pretty much it. What else is there to discuss? Nothing, dear, which is why we're not even trying and why all we're doing is laughing at you for the lameness of your responses, for your ignorance, and for your insecurity.

• Paul is going to keep on responding. He's a troll. That's what trolls do. There is no argument that you could provide that would satisfy a troll. They live to just have you respond and keep responding. Thankfully some people are catching on to Paul and recognize it for the troll it is. Now I fully expect Paul to respond to this post with more of his witty bon mots. "dear heart" indeed.

• Thanks, R241. That's obvious. I'm just confused as to what more of a counter-argument I and others here could provide to this man.

• R241 and R242, anti-gay trolls. They hate Lesbians marrying at West Point. They love therapists who try to make their patients 'ex-gay.' They love anti-gay Salvation Army. I'm not sure why they're on a gay website.

• Let's see ... Paul is a troll for suggesting to gay people, on a gay website, that they might want to reserve their charitable donations for one of the many groups that help the downtrodden without serving up a side order of homophobia. You, on the other hand, are not a troll for coming to a gay website and telling the gays they that should be happy to give their money to anit-gay SA even though many gay-friendly groups do the same work? And then trying to convince us that the SA isn't really anti-gay at all even though Paul and others have posted plenty of hard evidence to the contrary? Riiiiggght ....

• There's nothing anti-gay about the SA.

• [quote] R241 and R242, anti-gay trolls. They hate Lesbians marrying at West Point. They love therapists who try to make their patients 'ex-gay.' They love anti-gay Salvation Army. I'm not sure why they're on a gay website. Because they're closet cases.

• [quote]There's nothing anti-gay about the SA. Oh, honey, you can say that all you want, but there's just too much hard, cold evidence (such as that at the link) that you are wrong for anyone to believe you. And given that the SA itself seems pretty openly and proudly anti-gay, I don't know why you'd take the liberty of trying to hide that. [quote][R241] and [R242], anti-gay trolls ... I'm not sure why they're on a gay website. Yeah, that is the real question here. If you are anti-gay but do want to help the poor and homeless then, great, give your money to SA. I don't agree with your views or theirs, but hey, good for you--I'm glad you've found a charity you are comfortable supporting. I don't know why you would waste so much time here trying to persuade gay people to support the SA, though. We are NOT anti-gay, and we are NOT comfortable or happy giving our money to anti-gay charities. And we are well aware that plenty of gay-friendly charities do the same kind of work SA does. So why would you ever expect to convince us to pony up for SA? That's just silly ...

  http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/06/salvation-army-official-gays-deserve-death/53885/

• There's an annoying woman ringing her bell near my house and she sings Christmas songs. I have seen her at different stores.

• Pro-SA posters on DL = putting the cray cray into C R A Z Y

• "I mean, surely if I'm so "meantally challenged," it should be a piece of cake to deal with me, right?" I guess you mean "mentally challenged", Paulie. And it HAS been "a piece of cake" dealing with you. You've been exposed for the lunatic weirdo you are many, many times. And if anybody is being "laughed at" it's YOU. You have no idea how idiotic you are; that's all part of your mental illness. I've heard that people who suffer from schizoprenia are like that, that is they have no idea how other people perceive them. They behave bizarrely (like you) but in their tortured minds they think they're acting normally. That's a pretty apt description of you, Paulie-boy. Sick-minded: that's you. And everyone with a brain knows it.

• "anti-gay trolls. They hate Lesbians marrying at West Point. They love therapists who try to make their patients 'ex-gay.' They love anti-gay Salvation Army" Oh, don't be such a fucking idiot. They just hate Paulie-boy and the minority of mental defectives who wuv him.

• [quote]I'm just confused as to what more of a counter-argument I and others here could provide to this man. Yes, dear, we know. It's painfully obvious that you don't have the foggiest idea how to justify your support of bigotry and discrimination other than denial and personal attacks. It's been funny as hell watching you dodge and squirm, though.

• Just out of curiosity, who is the "dear heart" troll? Dear heart??? How...1966. Who the hell says that shit anymore?

• [quote]Paul is going to keep on responding. As long as the responses I'm getting are as hilariously idiotic as these, why wouldn't I? This thread has some seriously funny posts in it. I think my favorite is the personal threat at R224. That one really was amazingly stupid. Hell, I'm seriously tempted to provide my address just to see what the moron would do with it. [quote]He's a troll. Only to other trolls, dear. I know this distinction seems to be escaping you but it's not really all that difficult to understand. [quote]There is no argument that you could provide that would satisfy a troll. Actually, dear, there is no argument that you can provide that will justify support for bigotry and discrimination. That's why the thread has been so much fun, watching the idiots respond by denial, by dodging, and by attacking. [quote]They live to just have you respond and keep responding. I'll stop responding when the stupidity stops. So far, though, there seems to be an endless supply. I don't take the threads here seriously enough to care whether that continues or not. [quote]Thankfully some people are catching on to Paul and recognize it for the troll it is. LOL.... Dear heart, it's not like I've been keeping anything a secret. [quote]Now I fully expect Paul to respond to this post with more of his witty bon mots. Oh, I'm not particularly witty, dear; I leave the humor to those I'm responding to. I'm just highlighting the stupidity.

• LOL, I remember now! That "Dear heart" thing upthread was in the Chick Fil A thread a couple of months back ranting and raving. Had any good waffle fries lately, "Dear Heart"? LOL.

• Thank you, Paul. I appreciate your posts.

• I think Paul needs to get laid. LOL.

• [quote]That "Dear heart" thing upthread was in the Chick Fil A thread a couple of months back Yup, and I was having just as much fun then, and for the same reason: the stupidity, the denial, the dodging, and the attacking. It's rare to have so much fun online. [quote]ranting and raving. No, dear, I leave that to the idiots like you. I'm just here to highlight the idiocy. [quote]Had any good waffle fries lately, "Dear Heart"? No, dear, I haven't, but I'm ever so touched by your solicitousness on my behalf.

• [quote]I leave that to the idiots like you. Idiots like me? Oooh, someone's a little butthurt. Here, let me make it up to you...

  http://50.56.28.37/talkingpointsmemo.com/images/Chick-fil-A-7-24-12.jpg

• Lord, something even more obnoxious than the homophobic bell-tards. This creature here represents the DL at its worst - the mosquito in the room that won't go away and thinks itself clever when all it is is a nasty little blood-sucker.

• [quote]Oooh, someone's a little butthurt. LOL.... Maybe so, dear, but, alas, it's not me. I don't take morons like you seriously enough to care. I'm just here to poke fun at you. I can't help it that you're dumb enough to keep giving me ammunition! [quote]Here, let me make it up to you... Well, see, there's the problem, dear. You assume I care.

• This thread is like watching two bald men fighting over a comb.

  Entertaining%20Pointlessness%20exemplified.

• [quote]You assume I care. You obviously do, DEAR, hence your insane page-long retorts. And we love laughing at you. LOVE laughing at you.

• [quote]You obviously do, DEAR, hence your insane page-long retorts. LOL.... Dear heart, what part of "LOL" do you have trouble understanding? I'm enjoying myself, dear, largely because of responses like yours. [quote]And we love laughing at you. LOVE laughing at you. That's nice, dear. I'm so happy I've entertained you.

• [quote]what part of "LOL" do you have trouble understanding? The part where you're trying (unsuccessfully) to convince us that you're not seething with anger.

  LOL--for real!

• [quote]The part where you're trying (unsuccessfully) to convince us that you're not seething with anger. ROFL.... Dear heart, what do I have to be angry about? The people on this thread have been funny, dear. I've been loving the contortions you all are going through. I must admit to feeling some guilt, though. I really think I should pay all of you for the hilarity.

• [quote]I wish I had Paul's address. He wouldn't be posting here or anywhere anymore if I knew where he lived LOL! I think it must be a place with padded walls.

• [quote]I really think I should pay all of you for the hilarity. Riiiggghhhtt...

  LMAO

• [quote]I don't care if DL people call me a traitor, [R48]. I'm lucky for what I have, and lucky to not have to depend on a shelter or soup kitchen. I also think of how many gay youth these organizations probably help. Some things should transcend arguments over religious Dogma. You have a point, r49, and I appreciate your concern for gay youth. Many large cities have organizations set up specifically to help homeless and otherwise-trouble gay teens. To avoid donating to anti-gay organizations, and to know for sure that your charitable dollars are helping gay kids, you might want to check into some of the groups.

• The Ali Forney Center in NYC:

  http://www.aliforneycenter.org/

• Larkin Street Youth in San Francisco:

  http://www.larkinstreetyouth.org/programs/housing/castro-youth-initiative/

• Ucan in Chicago:

  http://www.ucanchicago.org/host-home/

• Lost and Found Youth in Atlanta:

  http://www.lost-n-found.org/

• Avenues for Youth in Minneapolis, and if you google "homeless gay teens," your will find similar organizations in many cities beyond the ones I've posted about.

  http://www.avenuesforyouth.org/programs-glbthosthome.html

• Ha.

• w

• ?

• I usually just say "I don't donate to anti-gay charities" loudly. They looked pissed off. Pity.

• Today a Salvation Army bell ringer told me to have a nice day. What should I have said in return?

• [quote]Today a Salvation Army bell ringer told me to have a nice day. What should I have said in return? "You too," perhaps?

• "Eat my big hole, felch-face" would've done the trick.

• [quote]Today a Salvation Army bell ringer told me to have a nice day. What should I have said in return? "No, thanks. I've got other plans."

• I skip the "fuck you" (though it's fine as subtext) but I do say, as I keep walking, "I don't like that organization." Not interested in it disintegrating into the discussion phase -- but no guilt over not giving them money either. It's so in the news, these people have to know why.

• The Salvation Army bell ringers are mostly paid to do what they do. However what should be known about the SA is comprehended by too few. 1) The SA has been in bed with the satanic since about 1890, when the SA founder general William Booth and his son were in the Cecil Rhodes's { alias Mr. Africa} {alias Mr. Debeers } circle of initiates in the founding of the "round table" groups that have fathered such things as "the Council for Foreign Relations" a hangout for the Rockefellers, Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski and other slime balls. Get educated read prof Carroll Quigley's monumental eye-opener "Tragedy and Hope". Lord Rothschild was Rhode's banker and I believe executer of his will (s). Bill Clinton was a Rhode's scholar hand picked from teenage age and groomed to carry their agenda. Essentially all elitist with only total world dominion as their goal. Yes most assuredly un-sane. I suspect that Booth was a dupe and was used by Rhodes and companions. 2) For those of us that are not of that bent the initial primary objective is to become thoroughly knowledgeable of the history, the current affairs and the methods of these people. 3) Shut off the boob tube. It is through that porthole the imprisonment of your mind is accomplished. One becomes a unwitting dupe for their use and then disposal. 4) The bell ringers do not know what it is they serve, at all. The entire lower echelons of the Salvation Army is filled with well intentioned and actually helping many of the needy. Thus innocent devotion blinds them to what the larger picture truly is and therefore offer a perfect cover for the atrocities fomented by the main organization. 5) Be most certain that what we are looking at is aspects of the “War of the Worlds”. Devote your whole essence to waking up and educating yourself. Then you will see what to do. By then you will feel a little more compassion for the dupes. Meanwhile stop supporting the International cartels whose initial intention is you and yours enslavement and destruction. Google " Koch Brothers" stop using their products.

  A%20Friend%20of%20the%20people

• .