I kind of hope it does win Best Picture just to see all the right winger's heads start to explode.
Some are saying it might not even get nominated. Too dry.
I think Chastain might have a pretty good shot at Lead Actress.
If she's as good as they say she is I think she's a lock for a nomination.
Never heard of it until this thread.
Really, R5? I don't follow movies, but even I knew they were working on a movie based on bin Laden's capture/death, with Kathryn Bigelow attached to direct. They first announced it like a year ago, shortly after bin Laden was found. It had a different working title, which was awful, but I hadn't heard much about it until recently.
I heard there was a tv movie about bin Laden's death - or maybe it was this one. Since I wouldn't willingly see either one of them, it may have simply gone in one eye and out the other.
I'm excited to see this. I found the Hurt Locker ok but not memorable. I've heard this is better. It's good to see some competition for Jennifer Lawrence, too. Jessica Chastain is getting raves (too bad she's not pulling the same strength in The Heiress on Broadway).
There's so many Oscar worthy movies coming out this season, that can only mean we'll be seeing crap for the next few years.
Awww....some "Avatar" fans have found the thread.
Yeah, "Hurt Locker" was better - get over it.
Only 3 top critics so far but it sounds like it's very well constructed and left openended, as opposed to "YAY" (cue loud applause) "We assassinated Bin Laden!", it's not that simplistic. I heard the writer is a journalist who does investigations, he interviewed CIA agents.
Watched 'The Hurt Locker' last night and hated it. It also struck me as pro-war and Republican, though I know that's not the popular view. So, mixed feelings about whether to see ZDT.
NY Times raved about ZDT
Is Zero Dark Thirty not 'independent' in the way that Hurt Locker was?
I ask because the Independent Spirit Award nominations were announced today and this movie received zero nods. Is that because it's not that great, or because it doesn't meet their criteria for consideration?
Zero Dark Thirty is being released by Columbia, so I don't think it would qualify.
Good god R11, you thought the Hurt Locker was pro-war and Republican?!
I thought the criteria was that a movie couldn't have more than $20 million budget. Anything above that would not be considered. ZD30's budget was $50 million, so therefore it wouldn't be eligible.
This is one of the few years I can remember where there are 5 or 6 pictures that all seem to be worthy. Argo, Les Miserables, Zero Dark Thirty, Lincoln, Silver Linings Playbook, and according to some, Life of Pi. Should be an interesting year. Add to that the fact that there seem to be quite a few actors per category that could be winners, and Seth McFarlane hosting, and we have the first Oscars telecast in a long time that I will be interested in seeing.
Les Miserables will win best picture. The Hurt Locker was highly overrated.
Is the Chastain character based on a real person?
The new trailer looked pretty great - a lot of very striking images. Bigelow is a fabulous director, its nice to see her getting her due. That said, I have no interest in the subject at all and wish she'd move on to another genre.
Yes R19 she is based on a real CIA agent but apparently they fudge details about her to protect her identity.
Argo is quite good, but it is still highly overrated.
Chastain's role is supposedly very dry and unemotional....some say not the kind of role that gets awards...maybe losing for The Help last year to amateur actress OCTAVIA could help though.
It's hard to say without seeing it. Chastain may do exactly what's needed for the part but it may not be an award-winning role like Cotillard's is in Rust and Bone. But so far I haven't heard anything bad about the quality of film over all.
[quote]she is based on a real CIA agent but apparently they fudge details about her to protect her identity.
Yeah, like giving him a sex change so a female could play him.
Well they fudge everyone's details not only hers. But I have met female federal agents and there are female spies so it's not beyond the realm of possibility.
Female spies? Unpossible.
Someone needs to tell Kathy that wearing her hair up like this is a big no-no for her.
It's already won TWO Best Picture accolades (NY Critics and National Board of Review) so there's no way it won't get nominated for an Oscar. Bigelow won both awards, too, and Chastain won NBR.
Another war pic?
Some have questioned whether the same CIA agent was the model for Chastain's character as well as Carrie on Homeland. Also, the same agent is referenced in the book that came out recently by the Navy SEAL.
[quote]Someone needs to tell Kathy that wearing her hair up like this is a big no-no for her.
Bitch looks like an older Lindsey Lohan.
Bitch looks good for 61, and better than all these noticed actresses who look like a muppet version of their old selves.
Looking at you, Streisand.
R34 You've been told that you're not allowed to make eye contact with Miss Streisand. This is your final warning.
The articles I've read lately about this film make it sound like a Right-Wing wet dream, with torture scenes getting necessary confessions/information and lots of shooting up of natives. It sounds like "24" without all of the overplotting.
Here's a telling quote from the NY Magazine review:
"At a Q&A last week, Bigelow and Boal shrugged off the movie’s politics. They’re just reporters reporting what happened, they said. And after all, we got the motherfucker who took down the Trade Center."
From the review by Frank Bruni:
I’M betting that Dick Cheney will love the new movie “Zero Dark Thirty.”
Who could have predicted that? Hollywood, after all, is supposed to be a West Coast annex of the Democratic National Committee, and the makers of this gripping thriller, about the hunt for Osama bin Laden, were expected to repay the Obama administration for its indulgence of them with a tribute to the current president’s wisdom and grit.
But the movie of the year is also the political conundrum of the year, a far, far cry from the rousing piece of pro-Obama propaganda that some conservatives feared it would be. “Zero Dark Thirty,” which opens in theaters on Dec. 19 and presents itself as a quasi-journalistic account of what really happened, gives primary credit for the killing of Bin Laden to neither the Bush nor the Obama administrations but to one obsessive C.I.A. analyst whose work spans both presidencies. And it presents the kind of torture that Cheney advocated — but that President Obama ended — as something of an information-extracting necessity, repellent but fruitful.
R27 yeah yeah yeah. President Obama will still appear prominently in the credits and is already scheduled to accept the Oscar. (They say he plans to wear his Nobel tux.)
[quote]Bitch looks good for 61, and better than all these noticed actresses who look like a muppet version of their old selves.
Barbra is 70
The movie wasn't that good. If it wins, then Oscars is more fuked up then I previously thought.
The film is getting a lot of flack from some senators. Is that good or bad for the film's Oscar chances?
[quote]We are fans of many of your movies, and we understand the special role that movies play in our lives, but the fundamental problem is that people who see Zero Dark Thirty will believe that the events it portrays are facts… The use of torture in the fight against terrorism did severe damage to America’s values and standing that cannot be justified or expunged. It remains a stain on our national conscience. We cannot afford to go back to these dark times, and with the release of Zero Dark Thirty, the filmmakers and your production studio are perpetuating the myth that torture is effective. You have a social and moral obligation to get the facts right.
"Les Miserables will win best picture. The Hurt Locker was highly overrated."
Zero Dark Thirty is politically suspect in its portrayal of torture as effective.
Les Miserables is considered a huge mess of a movie by far too many people.
Amour is almost universally loved but will oscar give France gold twice in a row? Highly doubtful.
Argo is very popular but may be stale. If it came out last week instead of a couple months back, it would have a momentum it's now lacking.
The Master is seen as a pretentious piece of shit.
Life of Pi and Beasts of the Southern Wild will probably just have to enjoy being nominated.
So, yeah, Hollywood will once again honor Bigelow, pridefully showing how "not embedded with the left" it can be contrary to popular opinion, by honoring the movie's artistry and ignoring the fact that it might irresponsibly - and untruthfully - show terrorism as being a contributing factor in the capture of OBL.
How exactly is Octavia Spencer an "amateur actress", R24. Just because you had never heard of her before she appeared in "The Help" doesn't mean she hasn't been in dozens upon dozens of films over the years.
Just watched a screener of ZDT tonight and didn't find it very interesting at all.
First of all, as above posters have said, it's very dry, to the point of being thoroughly unemotional and tedious. Characters come and go with so little background detail of who they are, there was no investment in them on my part.
And this includes the Chastain character. You get nothing of where she came from, who she is, why she has the job or any of her motivations. I'm not a fan of hers anyway, but I'd blame the writing and direction more than the performance.
Some distracting "cameo" casting with, among others, James Gandolfini (in a bad wig) playing a CIA operative and John Barrowman (!) playing...someone at a conference table.
Events unfold, which are obviously based on true happenings, but there's no dramatic explanation of how one scene leads to another. I still don't really understand how they discovered the compound where bin Laden was hiding away.
The film and Chastain may get nominated but I'll be shocked if either win Oscars. ZDT will never triumph over Lincoln.
You forgot Lincoln, R44. You know, the film that will actually win the Best Picture Oscar.
Zero Dark Thirty is too controversial, and contains hardcore violence and has too many inaccuracies. Do we want another Hurt Locker for Best Picture?
It's pretty much Les Miserables for the win.
I didn't like the film but I would say the violence pertaining to torture is more implied than seen.
Have you seen the film r48?
R44 laid out exactly why Lincoln will win Best Picture without even realizing it.
I haven't been paying a lot of attention. Why is Diane Feinstein having a cow over this film?
I haven't seen it yet, but from what I gather, Feinstein and McCain and the CIA and others are pissed that supposedly the film suggests that they obtained intel on Bin Laden's whereabouts through torture and according to them, 1)that's wrong and 2)portraying CIA agents as using torture will hurt America in the middle east.
Apparently someone forgot to tell them that this isn't a documentary. Others who've seen it, say it doesn't advocate for torture, rather it leaves the viewer to make up its own mind. Basically it seems like this film is fairly ambiguous and subtle and does not give any easy answers.
Also these senators/gov't officials are acting like assholes. Human Rights Watch recently released a report basically stating that the US is still using torture albeit it's outsourcing the torture to other countries. Of course they would try to blame a movie (that likely most people won't even see) when they should actually be trying to end the practice of torture.
I don't know if ZDT will win. I'd bet on Lincoln, but since McCain and Feinstein had the nerve to "encourage" Sony and the filmmakers to actually change the movie, that might actually help ZDT at the Oscars with some voters. That's something that other filmmakers won't take lightly.
It'll be shut out. It's generally accepted she's had her shot and that the win last time was just an anti-Cameron raspberry. The dubious authenticity of some claims - a la "JFK" - will ensure that votes will drop away.
It's not a classic. Not by a long shot. Says nothing about the human condition. One of the worst types of war movies. Almost like a lifetime movie about war. A re-enactment. Nothing more.
It's hard to say because things get buzz, like Lincoln (since the Oscars often make lame or safe choices that might stand the best chance) and die down. ZDT is getting it's buzz now, however Amour, Holy Motors and the Master are picking up steam & MAJOR critic's awards. Google and you'll see. Argo is also picking up some buzz. Sadly the Oscars may not mean much more than what's buzzing at the moment & isn't too challenging.
Les Miz will do well at the BO due to a pre-existing audience but is mainly for the equivalent of elderly Twihards.
Jessica Chastain is certainly the one to watch.
I suspect, given the backlash over ZDT, Lincoln is the most likely, though there may be a split and Bigelow may get director. DOn't know if it's CHastain's time yet--they may want to give it to Jennifer Lawrence, to adhere to the Audrey Hepburn-Gwyneth Paltrow rule (though Lawrence is genuinely gifted, as opposed to Goop--and while Audrey deserved the Oscar on many an occasion, I don't think "Roman Holiday" really gave her the opposrtunity that Deborah Kerr had in "From Here to Eternity").
I'm a fan of Anne Hathaway (and haven't yet seen Les Mis), but I'd like to see Sally Field win--I thought her Mary Todd Lincoln was a magnificent performance--complex and nuanced.
While Bigelow/Boal say "it's not a documentary" (and I agree with that), they cannot also eat their cake too and say "look, this is just the way it happened, there's nothing we could do but write it this way", which they are also doing. With such mixed messages, how can they expect the audience to be anything other than confused and taking away the "wrong" conclusions after seeing it?
I agree with much of ZDT's criticism. It said nothing. It inferred nothing. Characters came and went, it didn't matter. I love provocative storytelling or thinking outside the narrative box. But ZDT didn't do this. The first half was confusing; it's as if they were striving for muddled. The second half was riveting at times, but because it lacked any sense of humanity or character, and because we all knew the ending, I just didn't care all that much.
Lincoln, while a thousand times more predictable, was also predictably more interesting and will probably win.
If I was voting, I'd give it to Amour, Perks of Being a Wallflower or Argo.
ZDT is seriously flawed.
[quote]Jessica Chastain is certainly the one to watch.
Sorry, Jessica. Better luck next year. How old are you again, anyway? I'm hearing 38.
The big winners Oscar night will be LINCOLN, ARGO, and SILVER LININGS PLAYBOOK. Not that I liked any of them.
Those would certainly be safe choices, even though a lot of people found Lincoln boring, not the subject matter but the film itself. But it's lofty. Academy voters aren't too swift so in the end what they decide often doesn't matter in terms of quality.
lol [r62] I'm younger than Jennifer and I still think 22 is a little young for a best actress oscar. I feel like Jessica gave a better performance, it's a little bit deeper than what Jennifer has been doing lately (Winter's Bone was a long time ago).
Tommy Lee Jones
David O. Russell or Ben Affleck
There is no top movie this year in contention for Original Screenplay.. Maybe John Gatins for FLIGHT or Leo's Carax for HOLY MOTORS or Michael Haneke for AMOUR. God forbid they should give it to Woody Allen again.
Best Picture will be SILVER LININGS or LINCOLN or ARGO.
I fucking hate autocorrect. Leos Carax. No motherfucking apostrophe.
[quote]I'm younger than Jennifer and I still think 22 is a little young for a best actress oscar.
What's age got to do with it? The category is not Best Performance by an Older Established Actress in a Leading Role. Really, that's a ridiculous argument.
If anyone thinks Lincoln won't win best picture you've clearly never seen the Oscars
I saw ZDT and I absolutely loved it. I found it completely riveting. Of course I'm ex Army Infantry so that may have something to do with it. I thought it was absorbing and intense and brilliant.
The Jessica Chastain performance was truly superb in that you have no clue who this person is outside of her work, and there are little puzzle pieces that you have to put together to figure out who she is. I got a lezzie vibe between her and the other female agent. There are no "big Oscar scenes" for her, just a fully realized performance. She will definitely be one of the greats. This lady will be around forever. I did think that the screaming match with Kyle Chandler may have been a tad out of her depth, but everything else was great.
This is far, far superior work than The Hurt Locker, and it'll be interesting to see how it and Bigelow fare at the Oscars since she was so recently rewarded. And this movie will be a much bigger moneymaker than Hurt Locker, which was really an indie character study that not a lot of people could connect to.
Also, all the CIA crap about water boarding and torture not existing is complete political hogwash. I've been overseas and if things like that were going on at the low level that I was working, they were undoubtedly going on at a higher one.
You are all nuts if you can't see Lincoln, Spielberg, Day-Lewis, Field, Jones and Kushner will be winning Oscars.
Argo is an adapted screenplay, right? If not and it's considered original, it will win that Oscar.
I don't know who will win Best Actress but I hope it's not Chastain who was thoroughly unremarkable in ZDT.
I'd really like to see Naomi Watts snag it. She's paid her dues and does great work in a ton of underseen movies. Plus her role may pack the emotional punch that the others may be seen as lacking. J Law is not winning an Academy Award for Best Actress.
What's hurting Bigelow is working with Boal. He is a journalist turned screenwriter, which probably contributes to Bigelow's last two films being "accurate" and "dry." Now that they've broken up I truly hope she finds a more cinematic screenplay to work with for her next film. It's possible, though, that they're planning on doing a war trilogy, so...
What is saving Boal's scrips is her directing, but his scripts that are hurting her vision.
The Impossible had a disappointing platform release this weekend and the movie has no buzz.
It would be highly inappropriate to give the BP Oscar to Zero Dark Thirty, just my opinion.
I think Lincoln will be the winner just because it's made the most money and it's a perfectly good movie. Nothing controvesial, and a noble topic. I think it's Jennifer Lawrence's best actress Oscar to lose (even though her SLP performance really doesn't hold up to some of the other candidates) because the overwhelmingly male Academy members almost always vote with their dicks. A quick search will reveal that the Best Actress category tends to skew young and way younger than Best Actor.
I wasn't that impressed with Argo, but Ben did a great job as a director.
Is there now a Holy Motors troll at R66/67? Please, that isn't even on anyone's radar.
Why are we in America debating torture? The start of normalizaton of torture began with 24 and continues here. I am boycotting the movie and suggest all others should too. If John McCain is agreeing with Feinstein and calling it reckless, then we really need to give it a poor opening.
Argo is adapted, so won't win (because Kushner has that one). Either Django Unchained or Zero Dark Thirty will win the Best Original Screenplay.
It's interesting to look at how two films about real life covert CIA operations handled putting their stories on the screen. The Argo people also admitted that their movie wasn't a documentary and had a scene that was purely for entertainment, the tarmac chase, which WAS entertaining.
ZDT on the other hand added TORTURE as their "entertainment" scene and have proceeded to both deny AND insist that it was artistic license. Something that comes with numerous domestic and international political ramifications.
I forgot: LOOPER is winning Adapted Screenplay. Rian Johnson. He won the LA Film Critics screenplay prize.
Looper? Are you Rian Johnson R82? It will be lucky to be nominated.
r81, give it a break. Torture happens. If you think that we catch the bad guys and prevent terrorist attacks without it you're living in a fucking dream world. The torture scene in ZDT was not for entertainment, it was to lend a sense of realism to the proceedings and to define the Edgerton and Chastain characters in different ways.
R78, girlfriend, HOLY MOTORS won Best Actor from the LA Film Critics, and the VVoice year-end poll picked it as the #3 Film and Denis Levant as their #2 Actor. It very much is on people's radars - critics, in any case. It seems to me not at all unlikely that it'd get an Original Screenplay nod, especially because it's one of those Director/Writer films - written by the guy who directed it. The Original Screenplay Award is after all sort of the Independent Spirit Award of the Oscars - the prize often goes to a "little" or "indie" film that is more auteur-ish than any of the other movies. Candidates this year:
Zero Dark Thirty
Okay, those are my predictions; but here's a link to a website that looks like it knows what's up, and HOLY Motors is #18 on their list of contenders.
PS: DJANGO UCHAINED and ZDTHIRTY are both generating a lot of controversy - racist one; pro-torture, the other - and that might knock the out of contention for awards. And I don't think anyone really liked THE MASTER. I predict the prize will go either to LOOPER or MOONRISE KINGDOM. (By the way: Blech, I hated MOONRISE KINGDOM. Haven't seen LOOPER.)
R83, darling, I am not. Nonetheless. I give LOOPER good odds of being on the list of nominees.
The critics awards are meaningless when it comes to the Oscars; look to the SAG and Golden Globe awards. Holy Motors has as much chance of winning an Oscar as That's My Boy.
Holy Motors? hahahahaha.
FF for you freeper r84.
Laugh away, Missy R88.
I didn't care much for "The Master".
Just tried to watch Silver Lining Playbook on a screener and literally fell asleep in the middle of it! It was a good thing I was home.
What dreck! I cannot believe that this film has gotten great reviews or is being considered for any awards.
The only thing it had going for it was the Australian actress who played Bradley's mom who I mistook for Sally Struthers in a long-awaited comeback.
And I love how they had to go all the way to Australia to cast a Philadelphia working class mom. Maybe it was worth it, she was the only actor who underplayed all the psychodrama.
Looper, Holy, Moters, The Master, Amour, Riva, & Phoenix are getting a ton of critical support and they all have strong fan bases but none of them are mainstream. Maybe there will be no sweep but categories may be split among them and the more mainstream flicks like Lincoln, Argo, ZDT.
A lot of people didn't care for a lot of movies other people loved, but who knows what the Awards voters will like. They are not the gold standard of objectivity, never have been & never will be.
Nope r89, not a freeper, just a realist and a gay war vet that knows what happens over there. But excuse me for bringing some complexity into your boring little black and white idea of what really happens behind closed doors.
R89, I don't understand why you think R84 is a freeper. In fact, you sound more like the freeper. Freepers would deny that the CIA used torture. They deny the US uses torture.
You're all crazy talking about these little nothing movies when LINCOLN will so clearly sweep the Oscars and win every major award except Best Actress.
The Academy voters will fall all over themselves voting for Tony Kushner who they (deservedly) perceive as a class act.
Kushner will have to figure out how to win a Grammy because he will soon have a Tony, an Emmy and an Oscar.
He also has an Obie, if that counts for anything.
If you notice, r96 we're discussing both a movie and its political ramifications without worrying about silly little things like Oscars. I mean really who gives a fuck?
You think Lincoln is good? Great. I think ZDT is excellent. If both or neither win Oscars what difference does it make to the finished products, which happen to exist months before those increasingly irrelevant awards are handed out.
Jeez people need to learn to enjoy and appreciate movies again without worrying about meaningless awards.
I do realize the irony of this post in this thread but I was enjoying discussing the film and I've been anti-Oscars for years.
Don't forget the Pulitzer, R97.
Sorry to intrude r98 but the thread seemed to be heading in the direction of all films this season and their potential for awards.
Kushner is way over-rated.
Naomi Klein compares Bigelow to Riefenstahl, and not in a good way.
[quote]It may seem extreme to make comparison with this other great, but profoundly compromised film-maker, but there are real echoes. When Riefenstahl began to glamorize the National Socialists, in the early 1930s, the Nazis' worst atrocities had not yet begun; yet abusive detention camps had already been opened to house political dissidents beyond the rule of law – the equivalent of today's Guantánamo, Bagram base, and other unnameable CIA "black sites". And Riefenstahl was lionised by the German elites and acclaimed for her propaganda on behalf of Hitler's regime.
[quote]But the world changed. The ugliness of what she did could not, over time, be hidden. Americans, too, will wake up and see through Zero Dark Thirty's apologia for the regime's standard lies that this brutality is somehow necessary. When that happens, the same community that now applauds you will recoil.
[quote]Like Riefenstahl, you are a great artist. But now you will be remembered forever as torture's handmaiden.
Sheen and Asner to write a letter condemning the film. Amy Pascal is pissed (I'm sure she has more than a crush on Bigelow):
LOS ANGELES — Sunday dawned crisp and clear here, with wintry (for Southern California) temperatures lingering in the 40s and 50s. But the rhetoric was already hot, as Hollywood got ready for a Golden Globes ceremony at which the table talk — if not the stage banter — almost inevitably will turn to the political flare-up around “Zero Dark Thirty.”
“I would like to condemn the movie” for making it appear that torture was effective in the hunt for Osama bin Laden, Ed Asner said in a telephone interview on Sunday morning. Mr. Asner said he and fellow actor Martin Sheen planned to join in a letter, drafted by yet another actor, David Clennon, asking fellow members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences to factor in matters of conscience when casting awards votes.
“We hope that ‘Zero’ will not be honored by Academy (or Guild) members,” said a draft of the letter, which was provided by Mr. Clennon on Sunday morning.
He had already spoken publicly about the planned campaign at a Friday protest by members of the Interfaith Communities United for Justice and Peace.
His remarks prompted a sharp response from Amy Pascal, the co-chair of Sony Pictures Entertainment, which is releasing “Zero Dark Thirty.” “To punish an artist’s right of expression is abhorrent,” said Ms. Pascal in a statement. She also stressed, as has Kathryn Bigelow, who directed “Zero Dark Thirty,” and Mark Boal, who wrote it, that the film portrays torture, but does not advocate it.
Is it terrible I hope this backlash, as small as it may be, means Jessica Chastain won't be getting Best Actress? I think she's great, but she appears the front runner, and that role was just so lackluster. I'd much rather Jennifer Lawrence or Emmanuelle Riva win?
I don't think the film advocated torture. I think it came down in a gray area. Did it help to catch Bin Laden? Based on the interrogation scenes they showed? I don't think so.
Lawrence is the front runner, not Chastain; they weren't up against each other at the Golden Globes, which is why Chastain won.
I don't think you can "come down in a gray area" when it comes to torture and be ethical. That's exactly what the Bush Administration did.
[quote]I don't think you can "come down in a gray area" when it comes to torture and be ethical. That's exactly what the Bush Administration did.
The film wasn't making an ethical statement in regards to torture. It showed that it happened, yes, but the tip that actually got Bin Laden did not come from torturing detainees. It didn't glamorize torture and it certainly wasn't some 'rah, rah, America is awesome movie.' If the film didn't deal with the issue, people would be crying 'whitewash.'
The film puts the idea of torture being used as something to be debated, as if there is some moral ground to torture those you disagree with. With this and the hounding of Aaron Swartz unto death I am afraid that the idea that we do not live in an empire governed by elites with no care for the masses can no longer be debated. I am glad I do not have children as I could not bear the thought of leaving them a world where a fallen empire in its death throws will be an awful place to live in. And that's before we talk about what global warming will do to society. We face an awful future. I am glad I will be dead before the worst sets in.