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Secession Fever Hits Texas
HOUSTON — In the weeks since President Obama’s re-election, Republicans around the country have been wondering how to proceed. Some conservatives in Texas have been asking a far more pointed question: how to secede.
Secession fever has struck parts of Texas, which Mitt Romney won by nearly 1.3 million votes.
Sales of bumper stickers reading “Secede” — one for $2, or three for $5 — have increased at TexasSecede.com. In East Texas, a Republican official sent out an e-mail newsletter saying it was time for Texas and Vermont to each “go her own way in peace” and sign a free-trade agreement among the states.
A petition calling for secession that was filed by a Texas man on a White House Web site has received tens of thousands of signatures, and the Obama administration must now issue a response. And Larry Scott Kilgore, a perennial Republican candidate from Arlington, a Dallas suburb, announced that he was running for governor in 2014 and would legally change his name to Larry Secede Kilgore, with Secede in capital letters. As his Web page, secedekilgore.com, puts it: “Secession! All other issues can be dealt with later.”
In Texas, talk of secession in recent years has steadily shifted to the center from the fringe right. It has emerged as an echo of the state Republican leadership’s anti-Washington, pro-Texas-sovereignty mantra on a variety of issues, including health care and environmental regulations. For some Texans, the renewed interest in the subject serves simply as comic relief after a crushing election defeat.
But for other proponents of secession and its sister ideology, Texas nationalism — a focus of the Texas Nationalist Movement and other groups that want the state to become an independent nation, as it was in the 1830s and 1840s — it is a far more serious matter.
The official in East Texas, Peter Morrison, the treasurer of the Hardin County Republican Party, said in a statement that he had received overwhelming support from conservative Texans and overwhelming opposition from liberals outside the state in response to his comments in his newsletter. He said that it may take time for “people to appreciate that the fundamental cultural differences between Texas and other parts of the United States may be best addressed by an amicable divorce, a peaceful separation.”
The online petitions — created on the We the People platform at petitions.whitehouse.gov — are required to receive 25,000 signatures in 30 days for the White House to respond. The Texas petition, created Nov. 9 by a man identified as Micah H. of Arlington, had received more than 116,000 signatures by Friday. It asks the Obama administration to “peacefully grant” the withdrawal of Texas, and describes doing so as “practically feasible,” given the state’s large economy.
Residents in other states, including Alabama, Florida, Colorado, Louisiana and Oklahoma, have submitted similar petitions, though none have received as many signatures as the one from Texas.
A White House official said every petition that crossed the signature threshold would be reviewed and would receive a response, though it was unclear precisely when Micah H. would receive his answer.
Gov. Rick Perry, who twice made public remarks in 2009 suggesting that he was sympathetic to the secessionist cause, will not be signing the petition. “Governor Perry believes in the greatness of our union, and nothing should be done to change it,” a spokeswoman, Catherine Frazier, said in a statement. “But he also shares the frustrations many Americans have with our federal government.”
The secession movement in Texas is divergent, with differences in goals and tactics. One group, the Republic of Texas, says that secession is unnecessary because, it claims, Texas is an independent nation that was illegally annexed by the United States in 1845. (The group’s leader and other followers waged a weeklong standoff with the Texas Rangers in 1997 that left one of its members dead.) Mr. Kilgore, the candidate who is changing his middle name, said he had not signed the White House petition because he did not believe that Texans needed to ask Washington for permission to leave.
“Our economy is about 30 percent larger than that of Australia,” said Mr. Kilgore, 48, a telecommunications contractor. “Australia can survive on their own, and I don’t think we’ll have any problem at all surviving on our own in Texas.”
Few of the public calls for secession have addressed the messy details, like what would happen to the state’s many federal courthouses, prisons, military bases and parklands. No one has said what would become of Kevin Patteson, the director of the state’s Office of State-Federal Relations, and no one has asked the Texas residents who received tens of millions of dollars in federal aid after destructive wildfires last year for their thoughts on the subject.
But all the secession talk has intrigued liberals as well. Caleb M. of Austin started his own petition on the White House Web site. He asked the federal government to allow Austin to withdraw from Texas and remain part of the United States, “in the event that Texas is successful in the current bid to secede.” It had more than 8,000 signatures as of Friday.
- I find it amazing that the states with people wanting to secede are the ones that benefit the most from federal aid.
- The only interesting paragraph in that piece is the last one. I fail to see why the NYT is giving this completely fucking retarded fringe group anything that could be seen as giving authenticity to it. It is NOT POSSIBLE for ANY state to secede, PERIOD. And yes, that includes Texas, regardless of what the fucktards who cling to the long-outdated idea that Texas can break itself up into five states and pull out of the U.S.
This is just the last, desperate grasp of a hive of mindless, idiotic freepers who just can't STAND the fact that the country is no longer controlled by a Jesus-loving, Arab-hating white man. And Texas has the most signatures on its "petition" only because it's the second most populous state these days by a wide margin.
- I need to get one of those bumper stickers.
not even near to Texas
- What a bunch of idiots. We had to suffer through 8 years of George Bush and they're such racist babies that they can't handle a President who'd probably benefit them more than him. Fuck them, I wish they would go and suffer for it, I feel bad for the people who don't want to secede, but they live in a screwed up state.
- Foot-stamping, pig-ignorant, tin horn Texas pissants.
In sports, this spiteful tactic is called getting mad, taking your ball and going home.
F-U-C-K the Republicans of Texas!
Got to hell, you impotent little freaks!
- [quote]I find it amazing that the states with people wanting to secede are the ones that benefit the most from federal aid
While that's generally true of the red states, Texas is an exception, in that it does pay more in federal taxes than it receives in federal money.
- Good riddance.
- Exactly, R3.
If that "TexasSecede" site had guts, they'd come up with a bumper sticker for the rest of us to use.
Something like:"TX Secession: Do It Already!"
"Don't Mess With Texas... Just Help Them Pack."
- I would be curious to see to see the ratio for supporter and non-supporters of secession -- probably like the recent presidential vote.
But I would like to think some reasonable, sane Republicans also live in Texas too so that the vote would be a dead heat.
- This is all because the black guy is still in the White House.
- [quote]But I would like to think some reasonable, sane Republicans also live in Texas too so that the vote would be a dead heat.
Rick Perry won BARELY half of the last Republican gubernatorial primary vote. So yes, there are far more sane Republicans in Texas than batshit-crazy loons. This wingnuts are about as representative of Texas Republicans as the Westboro Baptist Church is of Baptists.
- If the USA had gone through the austerity programs of Europe, I could understand the economic and cultural upheavals that would lead to secessionist movements, such as the ones currently gathering steam in Spain, Belgium and the U.K. But all of the griping on this side of the Atlantic is just an "I'll take my ball and go home" whine by a bunch of miserable crybabies who cannot reconcile themselves with the fact that they. lost. the. election. It would be funny if it weren't already so tragically misguided.
- Bush, Perry, Coburn, Hutchison and they just elected a fucking teabagger.
Oh yeah, that state is clearly on the verge of going blue when they elect a Ted Cruz who is to the right of Hutchison.
I don't care about the ratio of those who want to secede vs. those who don't. I don't want to give them the option. I'm tired of TX. I'm tired of their control over textbooks. I'm tired of that state period.
Kick them out of the union.
- Good. Cut off their funding and watch their infrastructure slide back into the 1950s just like their mindset.
- Don't let the door hit ya, where the good lord split ya!
- More like 1860s r14.
- I think we settled the question of secession in 1860.
Texans aren't the only ones who get to vote. Texas is a state in the United States, so we all get a say in this. And even if a majority of dumb-as-dirt locals want to secede, the country as whole has an interest in the area, and we are not going to just hand it over to a bunch of right wing fanatics so they can create a hostile entity on our southern border.
- I bet Mexico would LOVE for Texass to secede.
- Actually, according to the self-determination clause in the United Nations Charter, Texas does have the right to secede from the Union. That's true of any region of any nation-state in the world - Florida, Scotland, Catalonia, Massachusetts, Quebec, Bavaria, et cetera.
The vast majority of Texans, myself included, would never want to secede, though. It's just a few very vocal nuts who keep on banging the secession drum.
- I think U.S. law trumps U.N. charter (at least in the U.S.).
No country outside the U.S. (that the U.S. would be swayed by) would support Texas' attempt to secede.
And besides, there are thousands of ways this would be a nightmare for everyone concerned.
- Yeah, they're saying the same thing about Scotland and Catalonia, R20 - both are slated to have potentially binding independence votes, which neither the U.K. and Spain thought fathomable a couple of decades ago. I agree that it would be a nightmare, but nations are just social constructs - they're only as strong as the people allow them to be.
- Why don't you try reading the Constitution for once, r21.
Article 4.3 in particular.
Christ, Texans who think they are special are cunts.
- We've all read the Constitution, R22. Remember, hon, it's just a piece of paper, and secession is not without precedent all throughout history. That's all I'm trying to say.
You can mop up your irrational, profane bile now.
- Wow, R22 really overreacted. Her breasts must be quaking with righteous rage!
- The Civil War settled once and for all the issue of secession.
- People flaunting their hate and ignorance. Drumming on their chests like wild apes and whine like little babies. That sure looks classy, Christian, and dignified.
- Oh please, R17. They'll be too busy fighting amongst themselves (whites/Mexicans) and with Mexico to try and fight another war with teh rest of us.
I mean that idiot they unleashed on the rest of us showed you can't go fighting several wars at the time without lots of casualties.
- same time*
- Texas, the Quebec of the U.S.
- Wouldn't it be ironic if they succeed and we were able to build a fence around them?
- Let Puerto Rico become a state and see the entire South take a hike.
- The signatures are from right wingers all over the country, not just Texas and there are a lot of duplicates from what I have read. The actual number of people involved are a drop in the ocean in Texas. The press, of course, is making this much bigger than it actually is. Most people in Texas have moved on.
- R21, Anything is possible. However, the U.N. charter is not what made these votes possible in Scotland and Catalonia, and the U.S. is not Spain or Britain.
Nothing would make me happier than seeing all the red states go bye bye, but it is not going to happen without the support of a lot of people with a lot of money. Maybe such people exist, but my guess is that if there are such people and they succeed, it will not be a favorable situation for Hispanics. So I am not sure why you are trumpeting the idea.
If you have some illusion that it will become an Hispanic state, you are surely living in a fantasy world, because the first thing these right wingnuts will do is stop all non-white immigration.
- I find the secession issue a remarkable and blatant hypocrisy. These secessionists are the same people who draped themselves in our American flag, wore Uncle Sam top hats, flew their flag higher than anyone else and proclaimed anyone who disagreed with their views to be anti-American. They proclaimed to be Constitutional Scholars. They proclaimed to love America. They proclaimed to be patriots.
Now they so casually cast off their love for America and want out of this country they feign loving so?
- Texas rocks! It's not the back water some here are portraying to say the least. And it will become a blue state in 2016. That will ensure a victory by Joe The Joker Biden for sure! The left wing version of Sarah Palin...YUCK!
- ^^^typical ignorant Texan
- I never once trumpeted the idea. Not even once. Did you even read my original post? I 100% support Texas a state in the Union. I was simply saying that secession is still a part of the demesne of legitimate political discourse, using European countries as my example.
Texas already is becoming a Hispanic state, R33. I'm part of the proof of that. My family is also proof of that, as are my friends. We look forward to Texas turning blue, and joining California, New Mexico, and Nevada as states where Hispanics make a difference.
- R37, If sanity prevails, Texas [italic]will[/italic] turn blue.
- What's not mentioned is how many progressives have signed the petition. Some Daily Kos readers definitly signed it.
Let them leave and see if they can withstand the weight of those fatass white trash republican voting rednecks on welfare demanding their money, without the federal governments help.
- R 36 is a typical dumb New Yorker.Or a lesbian without a sense of humor. Palin was a dope as is Biden.Obama is a bright guy whereas Biden has his head up his rear!I might defect to flyover country if that old fool is selected President. I would much rather have a newbie Mexican American Pres from the Southwest than a Joker like Biden!
- In addition to going to war with Mexico, I'm pretty sure they'll hang all the blacks that live there and kill the gays in Dallas, Houston, and Austin if Texans had the chance to secede. Texas was the last state to free their slave and a lot of the blacks there haven't seem to get the memo about that quite yet.
I hope they take Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Alabama with them if they do secede.
- Secession? What a wonderful idea. I'm amazed that no one thought of it before.
- Texas can go, so long as it takes its share of the national debt: $1,138,000,000.
- Someone (or a bunch of people) profits from this otherwise it wouldn't be an issue anymore.
- Once Texas got the bill for seceding, currently estimated at approximately 1.3 Trillion dollars, I don't think they would be too happy. That's just their share of the national debt. I know most of the working class is accustomed to low wages already, but many would have to become accustomed to no wages for mighty long time.
I like Texas, and I realize the the cooks of the state often more publicity than they deserve, so let's all give the sensible ones a bit of a brake. There are more patriotic Americans in Texas than in most other states.
I hate patriots personally, but I'm old fashioned that way.
- Stupid people should be forced to think first before they speak or take action.
- Dear Texas,
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
- Some vicious face-slapping for all of them might take care of things well!
- With the exception of Texas, all the states that want to secede are a drain on the us economy. We should be kinder and gentler to these dolts who must be looking for their 'thousand points of light,' spoken about by old Herbert Walker in 1997.
- Texas: buh-bye.
- I wish they were gone and maybe the worst bigots would go ahead and move there but I'm afraid that Obama would feel the need to act like Lincoln.
- You realize that you don't have to live in a state to sign a petition.
This is silly. I live in Texas and NOBODY is even talking about this.
- r52, most of meanies on this board have never seen daylight except for what shines through their basement window, so you know they've never been to Texas. For some reason these shut-ins hate everything.
- Oh, please God, let this be true.
Hey Texas, there are a few other states we'd like you to take with you when you leave.
- I'm sure the Zetas and Sinaloa drug cartels will LOVE an independent Texas without a federal military to protect it.
- [quote]You realize that you don't have to live in a state to sign a petition.
Dayum! I'm off to Dallas to sign!
- Just deed it back to Mexico. Problem solved!
- It's kind of odd but my whole life, well before the Bush family, I hated Texas and never had any desire to visit. I'm not sure exactly why...maybe because I don't like people who wear cowboy boots, when they aren't cowboys.
- A friend of mine from Texas always used to say, "Texas is for Texans." They don't like outsiders.
But maybe now it's changing as tech companies start springing up everywhere.
- [quote] I bet Mexico would LOVE for Texass to secede.
Oh, that WOULD be delicious.
And immediately after Texas was granted secession, I'd love to see Mexico INVADE and OCCUPY Texas.
Since Texas has such a small "military" (aka National Guard), it will be over-run in minutes.
And then you'll hear Texas scream, "America, save us!!! Please!!!!!!"
At which point Obama should issue the following response:
SUCK. MY. DICK.
- Romney won Texas by a smaller margin than Bush did, and Texas is far from the most Republican state in the country.
- I work in a call center, and Texas has some of the rudest and most ignorant people I have ever dealt with in my life. I compare them to speaking with barnyard animals. They are rude, ignorant, and endlessly talk to hear themselves talk. I can identify a caller from Texas within the first three seconds of speaking to them. I know this is harsh, but it is completley true. Texas please suceeded as soon as possible.
- [quote]Wouldn't it be ironic if they succeed and we were able to build a fence around them?
Yeah, *that'll* work.
- [quote]Oh yeah, that state is clearly on the verge of going blue when they elect a Ted Cruz who is to the right of Hutchison.
Cupcake, PLEASE educate yourself on this topic before you go off mouthing more mindless bullshit. Texas is already a "majority-minority" state, with a white population of 45%. Austin isn't the only "blue" area of the state; Dallas has had Democratic mayors, with one exception, since 1995, and Houston's last two have been Democrats -- the current being a lesbian, a first for any major U.S. city. Obama has won both Dallas and Houston in BOTH of the last two elections, and in Austin he beat Romney by nearly 30 points. The ONLY remaining Republican "strongholds" in Texas are the suburbs of Houston and Dallas, not counting the redneck vote. As already noted, the Hispanic population, which is overwhelmingly Democratic, is growing at a rate that will turn Texas blue probably not by 2016, but almost definitely by 2020 barring a complete 180 on immigration by Republicans, which is extremely unlikely.
[quote]Cut off their funding and watch their infrastructure slide back into the 1950s just like their mindset.
Sweetie, Texas is not a "welfare state," and it has always contributed FAR more into the federal government in revenues than it has taken out. The state's GDP alone is larger than the entire COUNTRY of Canada's. Considering that technology and oil are its single biggest revenue generators, I think it's safe to say the state could rely on its own quite well, thanks. (Not so much the rest of the U.S., considering the percentage of oil used throughout the country that either comes from Texas wells, onshore and off, or through Texas refineries, which would take many years and hundreds of billions of dollars to replicate in other states. It's cute that you think you can make do without gasoline, though; I do hope you live somewhere with a good public transit system!)
[quote]Actually, according to the self-determination clause in the United Nations Charter, Texas does have the right to secede from the Union. That's true of any region of any nation-state in the world - Florida, Scotland, Catalonia, Massachusetts, Quebec, Bavaria, et cetera.
Actually, it's pretty clear that you know jack shit about international law. Texas is by ZERO definition a "nation-state." (Ditto Florida and Massachusetts, for that matter.) The fact that it was briefly an independent republic for nine years back in the 1840s does NOT mean it fits the definition of "nation-state," which by design refers to places that are *still* largely sovereign. Also, apparently you've forgotten that Texas VOLUNTARILY joined the Union. (Twice, actually.) Not only that, the Republic of Texas began its first attempts to *convince* the U.S. to annex them less than a year after it was founded. Comparing it to someplace like Catalonia or Bavaria is nothing short of absurd; Catalonia had an ongoing, IRA-style civil war with Spain for decades, and Bavaria was violently overthrown and seized by Germany, and consequently incorporated into the Third Reich.
[quote]In addition to going to war with Mexico, I'm pretty sure they'll hang all the blacks that live there and kill the gays in Dallas, Houston, and Austin if Texans had the chance to secede.
1) How the FUCK would Texas go to war with Mexico? Or are you just assuming that the state would seize control of all of its AMERICAN armed forces, including manpower and materiel? If so, then Mexico is kinda fucked, considering the only nuclear weapon assembly facility in the U.S. is located in, yep, Texas. Actually, the U.S. is kinda fucked, too, if you think about it. Since all those wingnut environmentalists in Colorado refused to keep storing America's plutonium stockpiles, all of it's now in, yep again, Texas!
2) Again, white people ARE A MINORITY in Texas, so how on EARTH would they go rounding up blacks for lynching?
The stupidity on this thread is only *barely* exceeded by the stupidity of the right-wing nutjobs demanding "secession." Again: BARELY.
- Secession is not going to happen but I read that Texas also has the option to divide the state up to 5xs. Creating 2-5 smaller states. It could be done in an attempt to gain more control in the Senate. But there would be no guarantee that all the small states would go republican.
- [quote]Secession is not going to happen but I read that Texas also has the option to divide the state up to 5xs.
Another reason not to believe everything you read. Sigh.
The real story is this: Texas BEGGED the U.S. to let them join the union, and a majority of its citizens approved an annexation ordinance in 1845. In 1861, when the Civil War started, each Confederate state (including Texas) ratified an Ordinance of Secession, in which EACH OF THEM was a separate entity and de facto republic, in deed if not word. After the last battle of the Civil War took place, in Texas in 1865, a handful of self-decreed "legal scholars" declared that Texas had "de-annexed" itself from the Union in 1861, and was thus under illegal military occupation at the time it was "forced" to rejoin the Union, even though it had never formally disavowed its specific Ordinance of Secession. (This was the crux of the argument the wingnut Republic of Texas group has been trying to spin for 15 years now, with no success whatsoever. They claim that Texas remains, to this day, an occupied independent nation!)
HOWEVER, the Supreme Court formally NULLIFIED the legal status of the entire Confederacy, as well as Texas's ability to secede, in its 1869 decision Texas v. White. In it, the Court stated a number of things but most importantly that it is [bold]unconstitutional for any state to unilaterally secede from the Union[/bold], and thus all of the state-level Ordinances of Secession enacted during the Civil War, including Texas's that stated it could break up into five states, were NULL AND VOID. Therefore, Texas's original 1845 petition to join the Union was still legally binding precedent, and Congress was required to legally readmit them into the U.S. (which they promptly did a few months later).
Here's more on Texas v. White, if you're curious.
- R65 Oh Sweetie, honey, Texas is a Welfare State. Texas took the largest amount of Obama stimulus funds to plug nearly 97% of its state debt in 2010.
And honey, you don't know anything about business either. That oil money dose not go the the state, its profit for global corporations headquartered in other countries, so they can avoid paying taxes.
The oil is not sold to the USA directly, its sold on the global market into a giant pool we buy back from. America would be the same.
If Texas left the union, the only way they would have to support themselves would be through extra large boob jobs, big hair salons and closeted queens.
- I live in Dallas and haven't seen a single one of those bumper stickers.
- Has anybody started a petition to expel Texas from the United States? I'd sign it!
- [quote]I work in a call center, and Texas has some of the rudest and most ignorant people I have ever dealt with in my life.
You sound like a typical racist. This is the same shit they pull. Just because you got some calls from some rude people in Texas, that doesn't mean that all Texans are rude, dumbass.
- YES, r69!
If you find a link, please post it.
I guarantee that you'll find an equal number of signatures, petitioning to get rid of that fucking trash state Texas.
Trust and believe that we'll be much better off without Texan trash, than we would be with them.
Link the petition, and lets get rid of that dusty garbage dump, once and for all!!
- As long as we're petitioning to get rid of Texas, can we start another petition to get rid of Miss Know-It-All at R63/R64/R66, a lip gloss and Prada queen from the Big D, no doubt.
- Blue states should start a petition saying let them secede. I'd feel sorry for poor Dems in those states and would have no problem letting them in to the new United States. The poor who voted for R&R and local Rethugs can just stay and suffer the consequences they wanted.
- I hope Texas does secede and all federal money and every federal job is immediately transferred to a state that's part of the Union. That'll teach those smug pieces of shit.
- Independent or as a State, I will always love Texas. Texas was always good to me when I was kid in High School there. I don't recall ever knowing anyone in Texas that I didn't like very much.
It makes me feel terrible to read these nasty comments. They are not deserved.
We have more evil people in CA and NY than ever were produced in Texas.
- "Actually, it's pretty clear that you know jack shit about international law."
No, I know quite a bit about it. Thanks for exploding, though, honky... It was amusing!
- "Hispanic Texan" = Bone-White, not a drop of brown in him.
You know its true.
- [quote]Oh Sweetie, honey, Texas is a Welfare State.
Oh, sweetie. It's not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it's the most prosperous economy in the U.S. right now, under myriad determinant criteria and tools.
[quote]Texas took the largest amount of Obama stimulus funds to plug nearly 97% of its state debt in 2010.
No, dumpling: California took the largest share, and Texas used stimulus funds to plug a 10% hole, not 97%.
[quote]And honey, you don't know anything about business either. That oil money dose not go the the state, its profit for global corporations headquartered in other countries, so they can avoid paying taxes.
Oh, honey. You've REALLY gone off the deep end here. ExxonMobil, the largest oil company BY FAR, is headquartered in Irving. While admittedly it pays next to no taxes, the company nonetheless employs hundreds of thousands of people, many at a six-figure level. It is not Halliburton and HQ'd in Dubai to avoid taxes; it doesn't *need* to be, since favorable tax "incentives" already keep them from paying taxes here.
[quote]The oil is not sold to the USA directly, its sold on the global market into a giant pool we buy back from. America would be the same.
You missed my point entirely, cupcake. My POINT was that the refineries for a substantial amount of the oil headed INTO the U.S. (regardless of source), for conversion into gasoline, diesel and oil TO BE USED in NORTH AMERICA, are located in Texas. The U.S. would have to rebuild all of these elsewhere to refine the oil it gets from elsewhere, at a cost of tens of billions of dollars just for the refinery-production costs, never mind building a port the size of Houston's. Also, the Port of Houston is the single biggest in the U.S. in terms of shipped tonnage, so you'd have to find a replace for it as well; good luck finding an area with such a large bay for industry and one that won't throw you NIMBY shade for setting up such a major port on their shores! So no, America -- minus its biggest shipping port -- would most assuredly NOT be the same.
[quote]No, I know quite a bit about it.
Anyone who would argue Texas is a nation-state under the UN charter definition is an ignoramus in terms of both UN protocol as well as general international law. I say that as a practicing attorney in INTERNATIONAL LAW, you idiotic fucktard. I'm also pretty damn well versed in constitutional law, which is why I said it would be unconstitutional, under CLEAR U.S. Supreme Court precedent, for ANY state to unilaterally declare itself a republic, and trust me, the UN Charter means precisely jack shit in matters such as this one, because the UN has and has always had zero enforcement power on its own with the exception of "peacemaker soldiers" sent periodically to foreign conflicts but with specific orders NOT to engage the locals, even if they're rebels who waltz in and rape and pillage women.
- R78 reeks of Kirker.
- R78 just doesn't know how to read. He's misconstrued the arguments of several people - he's as bad as Romney. He also sounds unhinged, with all his cursing, long paragraphs, and 'cupcakes'. What a mentally ill embarrassment he is to himself.
- Secession is a myth. They can rail and petition and bitch all they like. Texas belongs to the USA. Period. States don't get to seceed. The people in the states can rebel and be considered traitors and be prosecuted for crimes against the United States, but the geographic entity, Texas, legally is part of the USA.
Sorry, guys! You can leave, though. I will be happy to set up a charitable fund that allows you to leave the USA. I won't contribute to it, but maybe the Koch Brothers will. I hear there's some land on the Gaza Strip looking for "pioneers."
- R64 - In general, many Latinos hate blacks more than your average run-of-the-mill rednecks do. Though it's not exactly broadcast to the world, many of them are silently grateful that while they're usually seen as being at the bottom of the totem pole of society, blacks are generally seen as the dirt that holds up said totem pole. Also, they don't have the Parent-Child/Slave-Master type relationship that whites and blacks have in the US, so they couldn't care less about having any sort of sympathy with black people's causes. So if Latinos do surpass whites in Texas in terms of population, blacks will get the short end of the stick as usual.
Now I do know that Texas was the last state to free their slaves and given my dealings with a lot of blacks from Texas (except in the Houston area, where blacks seem to be a lot more educated compared to other parts of Texas), I can tell a lot of their descendants haven't received the memo about that quite yet and are in for a rude awakening when Texas becomes majority-Latino. Look at the race war going on in many parts of Southern California to give you a general idea of how blacks fare when Latins take over.
But nice try. Now go back to going to brunch in Oak Lawn and shopping at Northpark with the rest of your fellow vapid, shallow Dallas queens.
- Well, R62, I work at a call center too and you would not believe the levels of ignorance and rudeness I get every, single, fucking time someone from New York State calls.
Entitled, impatient, short-tempered assholes.