What types (and brands) are the best for consumers who want professional results?
All the cooking shows seem to prefer gas for the stove, but I haven't heard whether they prefer gas or electric for ovens. And do professionals routinely prefer convection?
Is there any difference in performance or usefulness between wall ovens and full ranges?
If I can get a six-burner, should I have a built-in griddle? Any other special features?
Gas stovetop, electric convection oven. As for brands and features, that depends on your needs and how much you want to spend. It's highly individual. How much do you bake? What do you bake? Will you be doing crusty French or artisanal loaves of bread daily, or a batch of cupcakes from time to time?
The same thing is true for the number of burners you want/need on your stovetop. Do you have a lot of dinner parties where you feed groups of people? Do you make your own stocks and large pots of soup? Opt for higher BTU (a must) and fewer burners if size/price is an object.
I've never used my convection oven. What are you suppose to use it for?
Once you begin using it, convection will take over. The fan ensures there are no hot or cold spots in the oven. That function is great, but what it's really good for is that it bakes much more evenly than a regular oven.
It excels at breads, pizzas, anything where you want a chewy crust and a softer interior. With convection, I make great bagels and boules but also the tenderest cakes ever. Pies are juicier too. With a non-convection oven, I always had to revolve cookie sheets during baking to get both ends equally browned. I haven't done that in ages.
Oh my god -- I had a high end range when I was married and I gained 40 pounds!
The food tastes so much better when cooked on an expensive cooker and of course you eat more.
I had to get divorced in order to lose the weight!
Do you adjust the temperature or cooking time when using convection?
I baked cookies with convection once and they turned out too puffy.
[quote]How much do you bake? What do you bake? Will you be doing crusty French or artisanal loaves of bread daily, or a batch of cupcakes from time to time?
I do a great deal of roasting and in-oven braising, but only a moderate amount of baking (mainly breads; cakes and such only a few times a year).
[quote]Do you have a lot of dinner parties where you feed groups of people? Do you make your own stocks and large pots of soup? Opt for higher BTU (a must) and fewer burners if size/price is an object.
Not a lot of dinner parties, but when I need oven space for a lot of disparate items, I never seem to have enough. So I thought perhaps a double wall oven.
LOTS of stocks and large pots of soup. I've thought of perhaps an induction burner because they can heat up water and soup so much faster.
Ideally, I've love to have a permanent wok burner, but I don't know if that's really feasible.
I have an electric Dacor under-counter convection oven,a six burner gas Dacor cook top and a built-in Thermador micro-convection oven.
I love them all but I am jonesing for one of these, it's a classic:
OP @ r7, some high end cook tops with high btu burners have an optional wok ring. Some high end cook tops have modular burners/hobs that change out for a wok burner/hob.
But you'd have to find a place to keep the swap out.
What's an oven?
Money isn't really an object, though I don't want to spend money just to get a brand name or anything. I have no interest in prestige, just performance. I don't know much about BTUs in a stove -- I've only paid attention to them on grills, and I've always believed more is better.
I have room for a six-burner stove, though I suppose I could get a four-burner and install a narrow cabinet for tall, narrow items like sheet pans and such.
What about those always-on ovens like the Aga? They seem like they would heat up the house greatly, and be unnecessary unless I were cooking all day long. And the ovens seem small. But I've never known someone who has actually used one, so I'm certainly open to first-hand info.
[quote]I love them all but I am jonesing for one of these, it's a classic:
It has a built-in rotisserie spit! Amazing!
Some of my coworkers swear by Wolf. I have a Jenn-Air. I give it a B+.
R6, I had to fiddle around until I learned to compensate. Rule of thumb is to lower the recipe's temp by 25 degrees, but in my experience it varies a bit more than that. Start at 25 degrees and see if that helps, then go higher or lower until you get the results you're looking for.
My stove has double convection ovens and one cooks at a slightly higher temperature than the other. I've had them regulated and they're still a tiny bit different. I also have a Breville countertop convection oven and it bakes at a higher temp than either of the others. Like I said, there always seems to be some variation.
Blue Star has gas & electric in their oven and ranges, and personally a gas oven with electric convection is the best. Blue Star is also 100% made in America, plus I love the French doors on it. They're gorgeous & come in 190 colors.
Can someone please post a link to a good easy soup recipe that they like?
R13, I have a Viking that I bought on a great deal from the previous owners of my house. I knew I would love it because I had cooked with them before, and I do.
A friend has two Wolf wall ovens and a Wolf cooktop. I've used them quite a bit and they're wonderful too.
Her configuration wouldn't work in my kitchen, which is also a factor to take into consideration.
In defense of electric stove tops. Assuming you have a high end model can be so easy to cook on.
Once you are accustomed to the unit you will find that you know exactly what setting to use for the desired results.
This pan on that burner to cook an egg is 2 so as you negotiate a meal you never have to adjust or watch a flame or how it is cooking.
Rice, that pan, this burner, set and done.
This thread is to gay men what the Michfest thread is to lesbians.
I have a Miele convection full-size wall oven and a convection speed-oven oven above that. Love them both. Use convection alot actually.
I have a Miele induction 36" cooktop, which I I just rolled-the-dice on when purchasing and it turns out I love it. Induction rocks. I am tired though of demonstrating to people how quickly a pot of water can boil though!
I have had these appliances for three years now and never have put a foot wrong, even with electronic controls on all three appliances.
I love it when Datalounge posters geek out and get all technical and functional no matter what the topic is.
In order to keep my food budget down I cook all my meals myself and store all the leftovers in the freezer or fridge. I know it sounds very Mary! of me, but cooking and trying out new recipes give me great pleasure. Of course having the right equipment and ingredient is crucial therefore I really appreciate this thread.
r21, don't get me started on my SubZeros!
SubZeros are pure appliance porn.
Sub-Zero is also made in the USA and is fantastic.
But I've heard their small under the counter fridges are Chinese-made.
[quote]What types (and brands) are the best for consumers who want professional results?
Nothing beats my old wood stove.
And I've got all those blue ribbons I won at the State Fair to prove it!
What's the big deal with a French Top rangetop? The only thing I can think of is when you're skimming scum off a stock, and you want to move the stockpot half off the fire so the foam accumulates only on one side. But surely there are other uses?
[quote]should I have a built-in griddle
IMO...No. They are a waste of space usually. I had one in my last house and whenever we did use it the house smelled like whatever we cooked on it for days because they are so hard to clean.
OMG, r28, cooking on a French Top is absolutely sublime! Better than high-end OR gas! You never have to adjust a flame or time how long it takes for an element to get hot. The only thing you have to do to adjust the heat level is move the pot or pan further/closer to the center. you could have a dozen different pots going at the same time, instead of being limited to just 4 because that's how many burners/grates you have.
Because it has to cover a larger area, the btus on the burner are much higher than a standard grate. When you take out the center rings you have a restaurant quality wok burner. So hot that you have to be careful of how fast it cooks.
There is a learning curve in using a French Top but once you do you'll never want to go back to plodding little individual burners ever again. Search youtube for "french top cooking", there are bound to be videos showing how they work.
We have been consistently delighted with La Cornue stoves.
Can't imagine living without our 110.
And I can't imagine going with anything other than duel-fuel...
Cooking? How charming! I do wonder sometimes how the other half lives.
As for what we use in the Paltrow-Martin household, I have no earthly idea; I merely signed the purchase order for whatever Mario (Batali, of *course*...), who personally designed my kitchen, requested. I think it's French and cost about $200,000, but I might be confusing it with my newest crocodile Birkin bag.
Find out what they're using at Guy Fieri's new Times Square restaurant. I hear they're turning out exceptionally good food on a regular basis.
W&W for r33!
In all seriousness, there isn't a manufacturer in this thread that isn't great.
r33, dear, that's not a stove...it's a conflagration.
This is such bullshit.
Ever traveled Italy or France? People make do with the modest means that they have, and make to-die-for food.
I've had some of of the best meals of my life cooked on cheap warped pans over simple gas stoves.
A while back in the NYT, Mark Bittman (one of the best food writers in the US) published a photo of his personal kitchen.
It was a tiny NY kitchen with an average 1960's style range.
Here in Italy, my kitchen is tiny. I have a regular old Whirlpool range. I have 2 pans. 3 pots. Some lids. A sheet for the oven. And that's about it.
Believe me.... none of your food cooked on a Viking (or whatever) tastes better than mine.
Some of the best meals of my life were cooked on virtual hotplates in Italy or stones in Yemen.
r36, the title of this thread is:
[quote]High-end ovens and stoves
You need to be posting over at:
[quote]Cunts who cook with coal
[quote]Dutch oven cuntery
Either way, here isn't where you belong.
We had a Thermador has cooktop and KitchenAid electric ovens at our old place and loved them. We moved, and had Viking cooktop/ovens installed in the new place. Hate the ovens--temp is off by 25-30 degrees--but the cooktop is ok. My mom has a Dacor cooktop and it's fantastic.
Give me a break on my Viking, R36. The previous owners had to sell it because it wouldn't fit in their new kitchen, I had to leave my old stove behind so I needed to buy one, and they offered the Viking to me for a great price. It wasn't much of a splurge.
But I totally agree with you. Did you ever take a good look at Julia Child's kitchen where they taped the last few years of her show? Her cooktop and single wall oven looked like they were from the 70s.
In NYC, Dorie Greenspan has one of the tiniest kitchens I've ever seen.
Oh, dear 36.
You strike me as a small-penised person.
Appliances do not make the cook. A James Beard Award-winning chef here in Kansas City has a consumer grade stove/range/oven/whathaveyou in his home. He swears there is no need for anything else. Any respected chef (or even cook) will tell you the same thing.
Homos who buy designer ranges are the same homos who buy giant matching sets of All Clad are the same homos who spend ungodly amounts of money on off-the-rack labels are the same homos who post shirtless photos on Facebook from the beach at St. Kitts/Nevis. They're dead inside.
Bengali in Platforms
R38 Isn't a dutch oven something Ethel Merman and Ernest Borgnine used to do in bed?
BIP @ r42, when I bought my home, I bought it because I knew how I wanted to remodel the kitchen. The kitchen had to be able to churn out food for parties of 50. In order to accommodate this, I had to special order all of my appliances as they all needed upgraded specifications and capacities. No, appliances do not make the cook. Appliances make convenience for the cook.
No, I do not do any of the other 'Mo things you ran on about. I only dream of having a body that I could photograph naked to the waist on ANY island.
And the only things that are dead inside in my home are the clams that do not open for linguine alla vongole :)
Add to your list: the homos who call it "linguine alla vongole" rather than the correct "alle vongole".
r46, I copied and pasted from a reputable online source as I didn't want to make a mistake.
I inadvertently made a mistake.
Just as you seem to have done,
However, I'm the one who is not a cunt.
You must be dead inside.
Please post your beach picture.
I'll settle this one. Girls, you're both cunts.
Happy now? This was such an informative, gentle, courteous thread until the two of you came along.
Dacor 6 burner gas cooktop, electric convection wall oven and built in convection microwave above. Absolutely love them all.
How are all these top of the line ovens shipping without proper temperature calibration? 25 to 30 degrees is a huge error. Thermocouples are not complex technology. This all makes little sense until you factor in the must have designer label.
Your point is well-taken, r45. Though I would hazard a guess that you're not so much a household as a catering biz!
Bengali in Platforms
[quote]In defense of electric stove tops.
There is no defense if you are serious about cooking.
The one with the red knobs.
Anyone have a Capital Culinarian? Thinking of getting one but not sure if it's worth the $$$.
I've heard mostly nightmare stories about SubZeros. Seems like if you got one more than 6-7 years ago, they're great, but if you got one recently, they are plagued with repair issues.
I have a Bosch gas stove and convection oven. I love it!
r54, I bought mine in 1992. Once a year I vacuum the condenser fins. So far only replaced one small blower motor. Run like a charm.
r56 you're apparently one of the lucky ones who has an older model subzero. Those seem to last forever. Newer ones not so much.
36" inches wide, built in flush mount.
I can prep and refrigerate an entire planked salmon.
The ice maker in the freezer is a bit winky [never shuts off; I just move the bin when I have enough ice] but otherwise SubZero has never been a disappointment.
And if you have a fancy-schmancy refrigerator or freezer, the same guy that works on your home air conditioning system can also do the compressors, motors and fans for a refrigerator. Same equipment.
I also have a Blue Star. Total no frills oven/stove. No computers, electronics, but high heat and convection oven. If you love good Chinese food, you need the high heat and it also gives you the crust on a steak that you only get in restaurants.
Viking has come back a bit but their reputation for breaking down is well deserved. Those repairs aren't cheap.
r59 does the oven door on your bluestar get dangerously hot to the touch when you use it ? That's the one criticism I've heard that makes me wary.
Have any of you tried/seen the new ovens that are trendy in Europe which I think are called Cyclone? They're in their second generation from what I understand and are found in high-end appliance stores.
If money is no object...
I love cooking with gas but hate gas ovens. My preference would have always been gas cooktop/electric oven. We went to an appliance showroom and tested different types and manufacturers. I had forgotten the amount of heat a gas stove/cooktop puts out and in a smaller space the heat can really be intense. We saw a demonstration of and got to work with an induction cooktop - phenomenal. We bought the induction cooktop and an electric double oven (because we were replacing the double oven that came with the house). I loved having two ovens - I know anyone can survive without two, but if you have the space and the money, they're great. Newer oven have better temp regulation and you can keep the temp at, for instance, 100 degrees - works as a warming oven.
One last point - we had a connection and were able to get all Thermador appliances at a ridiculously low package price. We had trouble with every single one of them and I will never buy high-end again. Thermador or otherwise.
Check out the induction cooktops before you decide on gas. We had a 5 "burner", so they are available. And though they do boil water fast (and offer good temp control), it's NOT as fast as the TV commercials - generally they are heating up an inch of water in their pots.
Thermador in the '50s & '60s was state-of-the-art.
Rock solid. Timeless design.
But like a lot of American products, the accountants were allowed to gut the quality and make **one last sale** to previous customers based upon the goodwill of repeat business.
New customers were simply duped by the reputation.
All say, like R62, "never again."
Thermador is now made in China I think.
While looking tonight at appliance porn at AJ Madison online I found FIVE STAR cooktops and ranges.
Looked them up, they are made in the USA. Anything made in the USA/Germany/France/Canada is always going to be better than the POS made in China/Thailand/Korea. Period.
Am interested in Five Star, Blue Star, possibly Viking, Wolf (which is Sub-Zero).
All are USA made. Interestingly, seems the best are made in the USA. My husband's brother is living in Switzerland and has a Gaggenau that he says is a POS.
Thermador 30" dual fuel - gas cooktop - electric oven w/ convection scale 1 to 10 (10 being best)
3 - needed a repair (even though I had insurance on my appls.) Bad knob - would turn off oven automatically after heating up to about 200. $726.00 - $500.00 deduct = $216.00. All it was was a cheap and IO mean very cheap temp knob. When I saw top removed and screws stripped to open top of oven ...looked even cheaper....some wires not professionally draped/dressed and dry water stains sitting on top that would never be cleaned if range not disassembled.
Never again!! I'll go with a GE something.
BTW the know broke due to self cleaning and you are not to turn knob counter clock wise past "off" but there is no stop, so extremely easy to do especially after it is heated up from cleaning.
A $400 range would be better.
Thermador built in Refridge...scale 6 expensive but not worth the money.
Thermador dishwasher = 2 not better than a cheap one.
Not impressed with GE appliances at all. We bought a GE Profile fridge (only one small enough for the existing space) 6 years ago and it died last weekend--needed a $400 replacement part. Thankfully, we were able to store the food in the bare-bones Kenmore we have in the garage. Our GE microwave (also 6 y/o) is on the fritz now, too. My parents' Sub-Zero lasted ~25 years before giving out.
[quote]and has a Gaggenau that he says is a POS.
I'd rather hear that the Easter Bunny killed Santa!
GE's Appliance Division is still for sale, and has been for a few years now -- on again, off again..
Even the Chinese apparently do not want it.
My parents' GE appliances lasted decades; the ones I bought lasted maybe one if I was lucky.
Can someone just take a second to tell me why counter-depth refrigerators are so much more expensive than standard-depth fridges? Shouldn't something smaller be *less* expensive? Is it nothing more than a premium charge due to popularity/hype?
I'm no expert, but I think it has to do with getting the same amount of working parts in a smaller space, expense of smaller parts, economies of scale on sales, just because they can, and more just because they can as more people want the look of built-in without the built-in cost.
If you need space in a fridge, most are severely lacking, though french door style helps.
If you can, standard depth can be "inset" into a wall and appear counter depth - even if all you can do is pull out the studs and wallboard behind them; those three or so inches can make a difference.
r69 you can panel many of the counter-depth ones, to make it 'disappear' into the cabinetry. They charge extra for this because they can.
Thanks R71 and R72.
I'll just have to keep looking.
r69 I really like the Liebherr fridges. The handles are very cool. They use very little power, and are quiet. Blombergs seem good too, though maybe not as durable as Liebherr, and only have one compressor. I'm looking at smaller fridges, no bigger than 30". They make 24" models. Subzero makes a 27" but they are way too $$$ and plagued with repair issues.
This will be replacing a 30 year old amana that still works, but it's on its last legs (and is a power hog).
Mine is on its last legs too, R72, so I'm going to have to buy a new one, either way.
I just can't spend $3000 on a refrigerator. Even if I had more income, I am just offended by that price for a fridge.
I agree $3000 seems like a lot, but it's something that uses power constantly, and something you use everyday. Plus I'd rather not buy one from China (which is where all the cheap ones come from).
So I'd rather spend 2 or 3x what i would on a cheaper one for something I'll love.
There are cheap ones???? Do tell.
Seriously though I want a well-made refrigerator that doesn't stick out like a sore thumb in my kitchen. But I'm going to have to find a really good sale.
Since the high end appliances are frequently not worth the premium charged, many might ask, "So what brand should I buy?"
My advice for average-to-good quality appliances -- day-in, day-out -- is the Whirlpool brand.
Yes, there are some clunkers in their various product lines, but overall, for value received for the money paid -- Whirlpool all the way.
Parts are not outrageous either. Many repairs you can do yourself with a modicum of handiness.
Whirlpool owns many brands these days, like Maytag, Amana, Jenn-Air, Roper, Estate, and KitchenAid.
Stick with the Whirlpool nameplate.
From Wiki re AGA energy use ---
AGAs have recently been criticised for their high energy consumption and inefficiency. A small, two-oven AGA running on gas will use approximately 425 kWh per week (22,100 kWh per year; perhaps half that if switched off during the summer months). The average standard gas oven and hob uses 580 kWh during a year, only 2.62% of the AGA's consumption.
AGA's own figures for expected energy consumption for their two-oven AGA support this criticism, suggesting a weekly consumption of 40 litres of kerosene or diesel, 60 litres of propane gas, 425 kWh of natural gas or 220 kWh for the electric models. This would indicate that the smallest two-oven gas AGA providing simple cooking functions (i.e. no water heating or central heating) consumes almost as much gas in a week as a standard gas oven/hob does in nine months.
I think whirlpool also makes Ikea appliances.
R81, point taken. I rescind my AGA recommendation.
Miele or Bosch
All big US brands are filled with Made in China parts.
Ok, I've been researching this subject and have kept trying to keep this in my thread list.
Capital Culinarian, another wonderful USA made brand with 3 circles of fire on every burner also intrigues me, just like BlueStar does.
I am seriously considering replacing the drop in stovetop with BlueStar of Capital Culinarian.
I've been perusing AJ Madison every day and looking and salivating over the stoves there.
One thing that is really important to consider is that on your bog standard burners they light the pots and pans from outside of the edge, which is why I want to go with either BlueStar or Capital Culinarian. Only those 2 light also from in the middle. The Wolf one is not significant enough to light from inside on the simmer setting, however I'm still considering Wolf due to the red lighted knob dials that none of the other ones have.
And I'm considering that one since my husband has left the burners ON several times, he does not have alz - his mother does and I'm worried a bit.
r85 I also am considering a Culinarian. I love that you can get one with a rotisserie. They are the stoves that are used on Chopped, at least in the most recent seasons.
This thread is nothing but appliance porn.
I am interested in the Cyclone line mentioned upthread. I'd never heard of it.
My preferred brand is EZ-Bake.
My ex and I actually broke up over a stove.
She wanted a vintage oven off of Craig's list that wouldn't even fit in our kitchen.
I wanted something I could rely on, seeing as how I did 99% of the cooking.
She dumped me. Bought the damned thing and ended up giving the stove to a friend because she couldn't fit it in the damned door.
The friend had to get rid of it a year later because it broke down.
Needless to say the stove was only the final straw... I'm much better off now with a partner who loves to cook with me.
My mother has had Decor for 52 years at home, and swears it's better than her new Gaggenau stuff at the lake house. She spent more on that damn kitchen than we spent on our entire house.