Supposedly in 2008, OK was the only state that went redder than it had in the previous election. They called it the "reddest of the red" back then.
I'm sure Romney won every county in Utah, too.
I'm guessing the opposite cases are Vermont, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts. I can't imagine Romney winning a single county in any of them.
Third consecutive cycle.
This was the case in 2004, 2008, and now 2012.
Oklahoma is bloody!
The big one this year was West Virginia. Same result. And that's a state Demcorats used to carry -- even in elections they lost. (See 1952, 1968, 1980, and 1988 as examples.)
I believe you are correct, R1.
[quote]Supposedly in 2008, OK was the only state that went redder than it had in the previous election.
There were two states that conspicuously shifted Republican in 2008 (compared to 2004): Arkansas and Louisiana. There were three states with slight GOP upticks: Oklahoma, Tennessee, and West Virginia.
Bill Clinton was very popular in WV. Do we think Hillary could have won there? Especially after she transformed herself into the champion for blue collar whites in the 2008 primaries?
My inclination is still no.
If I'm remembering correctly, Clinton also won Louisiana and Kentucky in both elections, and they're long gone for Dems.
He also carried his home state of Arkansas
It's hard to know, R5. Bill Clinton won all those states in 1992 & 1996. He not only won West Virginia, Kentucky & Louisiana, but also Arkansas & Tennessee.
He also won Georgia once, and won Arizona once as well. Same for Montana.
Polls in 2008 showed that Hillary would have beaten McCain in Arkansas in the General, so it's possible that a Democrat with Southern connections could win back some of those states.
They used to make a big deal about Missouri always going with the winner... can't say that any more, now can they?
You'd think the 'Show me!' state wouldn't have fallen for Mr. "I'm not showing you my tax returns, and my Olympic records are sealed, and my Governor's records were destroyed"... but they did.
Racism is an ugly thing.
If he could run for a third time, Bill would have a shot at getting back WV and TN. But I think Hillary would have a much harder time.
That reminds me, R8 - Bill Clinton also won Missouri in both 1992 & 1996. Forgot to mention that above.
Oklahoma is a state that most resembles abused spouse syndrome. It's dirt poor. It has a legacy of shocking acts of violence against minorities, and legacies of racism. That it votes the most against its own interests isn't surprising.
r11, it only shows that the Republican / Christian Reich agenda to raise and groom stupid people (who act against their own interest because they are told to do so) works with poor and uneducated people. Now tell me again who set all the things in motion in order to destroy lower and middle class and dismantle our educational system (like with creationism and abstinence education)?
Meanwhile, Obama got 44% of the vote in Texas. Can we please get some democratic infrastructure/grassroots/attention down here?
I believe it was 41%, R13, but you are right that Texas could be in play in a couple of elections from now. Even the Republicans admit that.
R8 If you can't win their votes, shame them, right? There are a lot of posters on DL who like to drag race into everything. It's their way to get to shaming white people which is a pastime for them. We can talk about precincts in Philadelphia, Chicago etc. where every vote went to Obama. This despite black people, in general, being worse off economically and personally than four years ago. (And they are going to be even worse off in another four years) I guess they voted against their own interests. I actually would never vote for Mitt Romney and am glad Obama won. I just know some of you like to play the shame game and you need to be confronted about that low tactic.
Sorry, R14 - you're right. That was a typo on my part. For clarity's sake I believe it was forty one point four percent of the vote in Texas that went to Obama.
Being on the ground here, and somewhat connected, I firmly believe all it would take is a change in the narrative. I believe there are enough Democrats who stayed home because "this is Texas and my vote doesn't count anyway" to either swing Texas entirely or make it so damn close we get the attention we need to flip it.
Oklahoma is dead to me. Dead, I say!
Oklahoma has never had any redeeming qualities, sorry to say.
Can anyone name a single reason to visit Oklahoma? A single redeeming quality?
R15 - "This despite black people, in general, being worse off economically and personally than four years ago"
Black people are worse off, just as everyone else is worse off, due to the recession that happened under Bush and because of Bush's policies. After Obama's programs (including the stimulus) started to work, black people (as well as whites) have had their economic fortunes increased.
This just in, Oklahoma is a piece of shit.
Color me surprised.
R20 There hasn't been a recovery for most Americans. Over half of the new jobs created in the last four years have been given to foreigners living in the US. A majority of new jobs are low-paying. The stock market and corporate profits have recovered.
Al Gore lost his home state of Tennessee, didn't he?
R22 = racist liar
Missouri is no longer a bellwether, thanks to the racism overcoming common sense. Obama lost it in 08 and it wasn't even in play this time around. But Obama seems to have turned Virgina and Colorado blue, and turning North Carolina.
I believe in white shaming. White Oklahomans should be forced to go out in public with signs saying "I voted for Romney because I am an ignorant racist shitkicker."
I used to travel old Rte. 69 through eastern Oklahoma on my way from Kansas City and Dallas. That part of the state is appealing to me Red Neck dick can be tasty as I found out when the clerk at the desk got off duty.
I don't understand how any of the Native American tribal counties could vote red within Oklahoma(?!)
R18's snotty moniker is the height of idiocy. Are you afraid your hipster friends will malign because you had to move to Texas for a job? Will it kill your street cred to be a Texan?
As someone that lives in Tulsa I can tell you that the urban areas are different than the rest if the state. Unlike some though our population is still very rural which ALWAYS goes for the Christian Right. Here in Tulsa we have a thriving gay community and it is a great place to live.
Part of the problem this time is yes the guy was black, we had preachers warning of apocalypse if Obama was elected and biggest of all was the economy here never got as bad as other places. We have some of the lowest gas prices in the country and unemployed numbers are always better than national rates.
I know many of you hate this state but having lived 17 years in Texas I will take north east Oklahoma any time. Now for that dusty Kansas looking western side, we can sell that piece of shit to the highest bidder.
Don't underestimate the power of Rush Limbaugh in this.
Seriously, it's no coincidence that the central corridor of red states, TX,OK,KS,NE,SD,ND, is the land of the AM radio, and that's where Rush and his kind are King. AM has survived because of it's greater coverage.
I'm in Nebraska, and my local station has Rush, then Beck, then Hannity, and you listen to that cocktail all day, every day, and it can't help but eat your brain. If it's not Rush and the gang, it's christian radio.
You want to do some good? Give everyone in Oklahoma a year's free satellite radio.
Time to start closing military bases in red states. Wean them off of all that federal money.
Time to start moving more federal funds into purple states.
And Florida and Ohio, of course.
It's Oklahoma dude. Even redder than TX.
R28, I'm surprised about that too. Do the Native Americans not vote or what?
Here's a wonderful 'Let's Get To Work' article I was going to link to for a new thread.
[quote]How about a little old fashioned, free enterprise, as a strategy to counter both the hard times facing the nation and our own problems with poverty here at home. There’s a reason why we have so much poverty in Oklahoma. It’s the way our system is designed to work.
I thought it was fascinating, as the local neighborhoods of South Chicago are filled with ancient corner shops with living quarters located above. This was once part of your buy local/work local economic model.
Ken Burns "The Dust Bowl" was on locally last night.
I find it very interesting that the ancestors same people in the Farm Belt, who insist government should stay out of their affairs, were screaming for the Feds to do something when their farmland was being destroyed (because of these same farmers own greed and stupidity).
Just curious if any other states went "all counties for Romney"...
There were four states that I saw that went all for Obama (Vermont, Massachucettes, Rhode Island, and Hawaii). I'm guessing there were more states than just Oklahoma that went all-the-other-way. Kansas?
Oklahoma City is not dirt poor. How about NBA Championship Finalists, the OKC Thunder for a reason to visit?! Also, Oklahoma's economy is still going great and unemployment is low.
Who cares about that ugly vile state- they are only concerned with football and when the next windstorm will hit.
[quote]Over half of the new jobs created in the last four years have been given to foreigners living in the US.
You mean... Americans?
WTF do you get off determining who is defined as "American" and where did you even come up with this ridiculous stat?
Have you people just given up entirely on anything even resembling reality or a fact?
Iowa has taken over for Missouri.
Ia. has been no more than 3 points from the popular-vote margin since 1992. (Numbers aren't yet final for 2012. It may be a little more than 3 points this cycle.) Missouri started its Republican tilt in 1996. (Bill Clinton carried above his national margin in 1992, and then -- even though he went up three points in margin with re-election -- he found Mo. underperformed his national margin with in 1996.)
In 2008, the first time since 1956 Missouri did not back the winner, it was in John McCain's column (at 0.13%) and was 7.39% redder than how the country voted. In 2012, it appears the state carried for Mitt Romney between 9.50% and 10.00%, making it close to 13 points redder than how the country voted. Ia., in the meantime, was once again less than five points in spread from the popular-vote margin.
Missouri's bellwether days are over. Before the 20th century, there were numerous Republicans elected without Mo. We may be seeing the opposite happen: plenty of Democrats elected without Mo.
What happens, in the case of former bellwether states, is a changing electorate and that a particular state (formerly reliable) fails to keep up. Or the state becomes more identifying with one party over the other. (That's happened with a lot of ex-bellwether states: California, Texas, Illinois, Tennessee, Kentucky, and Delaware, etc.) Mo. doesn't reflect the demographic changes that another bellwether state -- Nevada -- does, and the Democratic counties covering Kansas City and St. Louis aren't enough. The lower-east counties, bordering the state with southwest Tennessee and northwest Arkansas, are hugely Republican. They carried more for McCain (2008) than George W. Bush (2004).
OP @ R7 writes:
[quote]It's hard to know, [R5]. Bill Clinton won all those states in 1992 & 1996. He not only won West Virginia, Kentucky & Louisiana, but also Arkansas & Tennessee.
Appalachia. Along with ex-bellwether Missouri, they have voted the same in every election since 1972. Exception is with West Virginia giving its 1980 and 1988 votes to the unseated Jimmy Carter and to Michael Dukakis.
Since statehood in 1863, W.Va. had backed all two-term presidents at least once. Barack Obama is the first elected to terms who never carried it once. (Same is true with Arizona.) In the past, numerous two-terms Republicans (back when they were the more liberal party while the Democrats' base was in the south) had to wait for the second-term victory to carry W.Va. This was the case with Dwight Eisenhower (no in 1952; yes in 1956), Richard Nixon (no in 1968; yes in 1972), and Ronald Reagan (no in 1980; yes in 1984).
[quote]He also won Georgia once, and won Arizona once as well. Same for Montana.
All three should be more winnable. I think Obama should have won Montana in 2008 and flipped one or both of Arizona and Georgia in 2012. (John McCain won Mont. by less than 2.5 points in 2008, and he carried Ga. by a little over 5 points. Obama won the female voters in both states plus Missouri.)
Unemployment, nationally, is what kept Obama from being able to flip any states he didn't get in 2008. (He's the first in who didn't get any pickup states, with re-election, since James Madison in 1812.) If those numbers would have been better, then nationally Obama would have outperformed his 2008 numbers and would not have lost North Carolina (in Mitt Romney's column by around 3 points) and probably would have won over Georgia (carried by Romney by 7 or 8 points). This is referencing Obama's national 3-point margin over Romney that would have been more like 10 points (an additional three on top of his 7-plus from 2008).
Changing demographics in Ariz. and Ga. should make them more competitive. Mont., probably due to its three electoral votes, is underrated and not pursued. (That state is not so deeply red like one of its neighbors, Idaho.)
[quote]Polls in 2008 showed that Hillary would have beaten McCain in Arkansas in the General, so it's possible that a Democrat with Southern connections could win back some of those states.
Barack Obama flipped Indiana in 2008, and won 11 electoral votes there denied him in Arkansas (6) and West Virginia (5). I think Hillary would have won those two states while not pursuing Ind. the way the Obama camp did. So, that would seemingly be even. She would have won Missouri as well. Then, depending on a stronger national margin (then Obama), would have possibly resulted in one or both of Kentucky and Tennessee.
I was born and raised in Missouri, and I'm amazed at how Missouri has gone red over the last two years.
I was visiting family is St. Louis recently, and it was scary seeing the large number of Todd Akin signs on lawns in wealthy areas of St. Louis County (far southern and western extremes of the county). There are way too many rabid Catholics in metro St. Louis/metro KC and fundamentalists Xtian idiots down in Springfield/Branson and Cape Girardeau to make Missouri go blue any time soon.
Missouri isn't going blue as long as St. Louis is falling apart.
That town has gone from 622,000 in 1970 to 319,000 in 2010, and without that big slug of heavy union and heavy democratic voters Missouri is red.
But of course, and it should get dull you can always go over to Tulsa for the weekend!
[quote]Missouri is no longer a bellwether, thanks to the racism overcoming common sense. Obama lost it in  and it wasn't even in play this time around. But Obama seems to have turned Virgina and Colorado blue, and turning North Carolina.
Virginia and Colorado are new bellwether states.
In 2008, Va. was No. 1 closest for statewide margin vs. national margin with first election of Barack Obama. Spread of just 0.96%. Dave Leip's latest numbers (site link, below) has Va. 0.76% from national. No. 1 again for 2012!
With Colo., it was No. 2 closest in 2008. A spread of 1.69%. Though numbers aren't final, it drops to No. 3 (after Ohio, a spread of 0.97%), for 2012, with its spread of 2.01% (statewide vs. national margin).
In the case of North Carolina, even though Mitt Romney successfully flipped it, N.C. is trending to "competitive" status. Relative to national margins, the state was 13.35% (2000), 9.97% (2004), 6.93 (2008), and 5.04% (2012) in spreads. That's a trend away from Strong Republican and toward Competitive.
Poor West Virginia. The coal lobbies flooded us with propaganda. The coal industry is dying here and they blame it on the President. I think every county went for Romney--like he would do anything for poor people.
Is that the population count R44? I lived there for about 6 months and couldn't wait to get out of that city. There was something very depressed feeling about it.
Yes, that is the population count, R48. In 1950, St. Louis was the eighth largest city in the country, with 850,000+ people within its 61 square miles. With a population of just over 300K now, you can imagine how empty a place must be with 540,000 fewer people in it.
Wow R49 I had no idea it was that bad. The waterfront district was deserted and there was almost no nightlife that I remember. Just empty urban space as if they had tried to revitalize but it didn't happen.
St. Louis is the new Detroit!
As someone who has lived in Oklahoma most of their life, I can confirm that there is no real reason to ever step foot here unless it's unavoidable. Oklahoma City has done quite a bit to revitalize their downtown, and the Thunder are a great team, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a dusty cow town filed with ignorant Christians. Tulsa has some wonderful Art Deco architecture from its days as an oil-boom town and Philbrook is a nice museum but I still wouldn't recommend it as a vacation spot. The best thing I can say about the state is that it has a ridiculously low cost of living, but there's a reason for that.
A lot of St Louis is probably in white flight areas now.
I am so ashamed to have been born in Oklahoma.
Okie by Birth/Californian by Choice
It could be worse. Only 25% of people in Utah voted for Obama.
"A lot of St Louis is probably in white flight areas now."
St. Charles County, a suburb of St. Louis, now has a population of almost 400K, growing from 93K in 1970 and I'm going to guess 90% is white flight. In the 50's, 60's and 70's they left North St. Louis City for north St. Louis County. In the 80's and continuing to the present time, they are fleeing North St. Louis County for St. Charles County.
St. Louis city and St. Louis county are two separate political entities.
It's not for a lack of trying, OP. I'm doing my god-damnedest to turn Hughes Co. blue. I've got a hell of a row to hoe--I think Romney beat the president almost two-to-one on election day. Onward and upward!
(BTW, You would be surprised by the number of native americans who don't like black people).
The only thing good about that state is the musical. I would never in a million years want to even step foot in it.
A state that is home to that coburn douche and the late grating Anal Roberts would surely vote the way of the devil.
Besides, they don't call them Okies for nothing.
Three states that Obama didn't win any counties; Utah, Oklahoma, West Virginia.
Interestingly one of a couple of states that the prez outpaced 2008 was Alaska where he did 3 points bettter going from 38% to 41%. Don't think the lack of Palin would explain that.
Oklahoma is the most Repug state in the union. It's extreme even among red states.
Why the fuck does Oklahoma need THREE Air Force Bases?
Altus Air Force Base
Tinker Air Force Base
Vance Air Force Base
CLOSE TWO OF THEM YOU RED STATE FUCKERS.
Lets see how long it takes to wean you off of Military Welfare, Oklahoma.
Tornado Alley, just sayin'. FEMA is busy in the east.
State receiving the most federal aid in FEMA funds last year?
Tell us again how you don't like the federal government, yokels. Between FEMA and the military bases, you're so firmly attached to the federal teat that it would take a TNT to dislodge you.
Fuck the Okies!
It IS a great song.
Piss off anonymous. Ya ain't got the balls to stand behind your comments here? I'm Ronnie Peck and I live in Pond Creek OK. Y'all come, Ok?