The horror an animal senses on its way to slaughter is simply a horror. These animals know something terrible is going to happen to them and they are so frightened they lose control over their bowels and bladder. Their eyes are reflect a terror that we humans should have to see if we are ever going to stop this abomination. Cows in particular are so terrified they have to held in machine that hugs them with fake affection in an attempt to calm them before slaughter. It's even worse for pigs with have even greater intelligence than dogs. These animal should never have to experience life in this manner. Granted, there would be a lot fewer of these animal if they weren't consumed, but I can't possibly see how we can avoid the combined frightful horror we impose on these animals.
Because it's delicious, you precious snowflake you.
Slowly, with fava beans and a nice bottle of chianti.
Good grief, OP. I love animals too but I also realize that we are omnivores at the top of the food chain. Other animals eat animals too. I think slaughterhouses are awful but it's an ugly fact of life that we eat meat and other animal products and we actually are healthier with a little animal protein and fat in our diets.
Dear OP, I'm sorry for the drubbing Datalounge is about to deliver. There are many things DL hates, but vegans hold a special place in its collective heart. It's a burning pit of hatred, but it's a place.
PETA Freak Alert!
Got bored with boycotting cures for AIDS OP?
get a life OP.... or some cock or flange whichever floats your boat but meat rules.
thread closed you hippie
OP- Don't make me cry now!!!
I understand the "facts" and the glibness, but since we can live healthy lives without meat, why the heavy emphasis on animal protein? I'm sure there those who will point out this is a bible condoned matter, but I'm not a thumper.
Yes, you can live a healthy life without meat but I still think it's healthier to have a little animal protein in your diet. Most of the vegetarians and vegans I've look sickly especially the vegans who all look emaciated and pasty to me. Eat some damn cheese people.
With great relish.
I grew up on a farm, would not eat meat as a child because I knew what it was.
I don't eat dead animals.
I don't think these types of proclamations help. I don't eat animal products, but at the same time, I recognize that most people are never going to stop eating meat. For me, it's better to refocus the discussion on local and sustainable farming, with cage free practices and where slaughter is at least more humane. Most farmers markets have meat vendors now.
People love to respond in a cocky, glib manner to animal rights activists, and I partly understand that. Activist types annoy me too. But I have to believe that if most people confronted the type of torture going on in factory farming, they would reconsider their diets.
It's possible for animals to live well and then be slaughtered humanely.
Factoring farming is the problem, not eating meat. As someone pointed out, animals brutally kill each other for food.
I've heard they now use C02 to effectively knock out pigs before slaughter. I'm not sure why they don't do the same for cows, that would be much more humane.
And I'm sure all the people in this thread dote on their cats so I'm confused about the indifference towards other animals.
oh the horror of it all! how can you live with yourself OP knowing that baby carrots, BABY CARROTS! are snatched from the precious, protecting womb of mother earth. and in this post-aborted state are commingled with other leafy veggies that have suffered an equally horrifying fate. i suggest you see 'The Secret Life of Plants' mister. oh yes, they are sentient and can feel pain.
watching it live now on his site, and it's heartening to know that there are human beings in DC to counteract the corporate robots.
as Rep. Barbara Lee said, it's not a fiscal cliff, which is made up, but there is a human cliff if we don't take care of our own
I agree R14. I'm a meat eater and buy eggs ($7/dozen) and sometimes meat at my local farmers market but they are expensive. Hell, even organic veggies are much more expensive. I love the different colored eggs too. Brown, peachy pink, pale blue and green. My dingy gf asked if they were dyed. She thought they only came in white and brown.
OP, animals don't suffer at Temple Grandin-designed slaughter facilities. She is at one with potential meat.
worked in an egg factory as a child and it was horrifying and unsanitary. the owner was eventually drummed out of his home state (Maine) and proceeded to start the whole fiasco again, this time adding pig factories.
a few years ago this was the same guy behind the massive egg recall in the US.
[quote]The horror an animal senses on its way to slaughter is simply a horror.
That is very insightful. You are a great thinker, and deep soul.
And an idiot.
OP, face it, you're so much better than us meat eaters.
Truly, you will ascend to a higher throne in the afterlife.
OP you are totally right.
And within, say, fifty years, the country will agree with you. But it takes time. Still, the number of vegans and vegetarians is rising exponentially.
I dare anyone who eats meat to go to a slaughterhouse and ever eat meat again.
'because we're born that way' is a cop out in this case. there are plenty of things that humans were 'born' to do, but we also have the capacity to adapt, and the planet would be a much more sustainable and cleaner place if we adapted our diet now, before we are forced to in the near future.
of course that means meat, but also looking at growing veggie crops such as rice in places where they could not naturally grow without massive costly intervention.
also, let's reevaluate the priority placed on setting aside good food crop land for the wine industry.
we can live healthy lives without meat
For certain values of healthy, I guess.
For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love
i don't understand why vegans have to become food fascists about meat eating. if you don't like it, that's quite alright. drop the campaign.
pythagoras? this is coming from a cult leader who didn't even eat beans because he thought they resembled human foetuses.
[quote]Still, the number of vegans and vegetarians is rising exponentially.
Is it? Exponentially? I don't think so.
There are health liabilities to both carnivorous and vegetarian diets.
Vegetarians who rely heavily on grains and legumes for their protein are consuming high levels of lectins from those products. Lectins are a specialized protein that act like a natural insecticide, destroying the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract of insects to kill them. They also damage the cells in a human's GI tract, potentially leading to systemic inflammation and leaky-gut syndrome.
Regular vegetarianism is one thing, but a vegan diet can't possibly be healthy: we are mammals and all mammals are genetically designed to thrive on dairy. Sorry, but that's a fact of the human body. While it's technically possible to get all 20-something amino acids from a vegan diet (depending on what foods you combine), it's very unfeasible.
Vegas and vegetarians are obnoxious priss-pots.
There, I said it.
Yes, R33, Vegas is an assault on my sense of taste.
"The animals know something terrible is going to happen?" And how would YOU know that OP? I love how vegans anthropomorphize.
The other problem with that diet for me is I, unfortunately don't like enough veggies. I like crisp, green ones but I'd get sick of salads all the time. I don't like squash, eggplant or mushrooms. Something about texture more than the taste. Don't even get me started on tofu or any of that vegan shit that does indeed taste like shit and has a gross texture. Sorry there is no substitute for real butter or mayo.
[quote]all mammals are genetically designed to thrive on dairy.
Only as babies. No species eats dairy as adults but humans. Some humans, who adapted to it. Isn't it pretty much agreed upon that it's not healthy anyway? I know I should avoid it because I sometimes get acne (as advised by my dermatologist). I don't think any adult would be worse of without it.
Veganism = socially acceptable eating disorder
Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages
OP, I've been vegetarian since 1998 and bean since 2010. No going back for me. I totally agree with what you write and wish more people thought like we do. Don't let the anti-vegan crowd get you down.
I hate autocorrect! Make that vegan since 2010.
People who don't eat meat have a much more pleasant body odor than people who do.
I eat some meat. Stop sniffing!
I understand being a vegetarian. I'm not; I've tried it and I just don't feel right. I have accepted I'm an omnivore and need the protein and sustenance that only meat can provide. I do try and limit my animal protein intake to a few times a week.
But veganism makes no sense to me, on any level. As long as the farm you buy your animal based products from is cruelty free, what's the big deal? A dairy cow isn't harmed (I know there are farms who mistreat farm animals NOT raised for slaughter, but that's a totally different issue). They get to be alive and we get milk and cheese. It seems to be a win/win. The reason humans mutated to be able to tolerate lactose post infant is because having a renewable food source was incredibly beneficial for the perpetuation of our species. And that particular animal, by proxy.
But they do fart a lot more R42.
Clutch some pearls OP!
I have it on good record that Thomas Edison stole most of his ideas from me.
[quote] I don't think any adult would be worse off without it.
Have you ever put soy milk in a cup of coffee? Bleagh.
R38, I wouldn't call veganism socially acceptable at all.
There's a term for what you're describing though, and sometimes it hides behind "veganism". It's known as orthorexia.
Oh, dear OP. We keep in mind such injustice to poor animals all the time dodging bullets while searching for food.
How can I eat meat? Well, grilled medium-rare and served with a tosses salad. Nothing better than steak on the grill, that's how.
OP, we're sorry that you have been indulging in butchery copro-porn, since you obviously have spent a lot of time with the slow-mo watching those animals void themselves. It's a sure sign of psychological distress, and often is associated with all kinds of terrible things, such as eating disorders, aggressive anthropomorphia, obesity, messiah complex, fibromyalgia and hysterical vegetarianism.
Unless you're just making things up so you can voice your conclusion of HORROR = HORROR, expecting us to buy into your premises.
I've killed many things, and will kill many more. I may not be proud of it, and I may not have committed every one of them to food - I respect the feelings of family members at times. I'm not sadistic. Most in my craft aren't. When done right, the higher intelligences don't have time for fear, and the lower ones simply are too stupid to see it coming.
So be quiet. You'll sleep easier.
OP you are in the wrong country.
In Asia (China, Vietnam, Korea) it is quite common to cut off parts of living animals for cooking, while leaving the animal wounded but still alive. Start over there if you want to stop animal cruelty. Here, you just come across as crazy.
R52 You have no idea what you are talking about. You just think everything is okay ~here~, because it just has to.
Can't believe anyone would think "If you want to stop ___ start over there, not here" would be a smart thing to say anyway.
OP, if you die and are not discovered quickly, your cats and dogs will EAT YOU.
The reason that doesn't matter, #37, is ALL mammal species enjoy and thrive on milk (my oldest cats & dogs LOVED milk), regardless of their ages. It's our biological design that mammals crave & do well on dairy products throughout their lives. At any age. That's what makes veganism abnormal for a mammal.
If slaughterhouses had glass walls everyone would be a vegetarian.
You are anthropomorphizing my meal, op. Have you ever even been to a slaughter house or are you too engrossed in bullshit propaganda? Those animals have no sense of their mortality and have no awareness of the potential 'danger'. Just because I love animals doesn't mean I have to be ignorant.
I don't eat pork or beef but, like r43, didn't like the way that I felt when I cut all meat several years ago. I eat fish and poultry, and am still borderline anemic. I was absolutely exhausted and miserable when I cut out all animal protein. I am ashamed to admit that I could never actually kill a fish or chicken, and if I were left to my own devices I would be a strict vegetarian.
[quote]How can people eat animal tissue?
evolutionarily it is the best way of acquiring the most nutrients at once.
OP, let's ban cheetah and mountain lions from eating other little animals. I just could not stand to watch when a poor deer chased by a lion. Have you seen the tears running down the deer's face as it is torn apart piece by piece by the lion while still alive? Oh, the horror.
We should start by eradicating all those animals that eat other animals and all those insects that eat other insects. After that, it would be a wonderful and bare world.
Thanks op....your post was so hot!! I'm going to print it out and masturbate to it!!
Syster, our tribe is on the Michfest thread.
I'm actually struggling with this issue. Perhaps struggle is too strong a word but it's something that's been on my mind for a while now. I was vegetarian very briefly as a teenager. More a fad than anything. But as a rescue cat/dog volunteer, I'm wrestling with the question of eating animals and in particular animals that are farmed and killed in the factory farm system we have in the US.
The problem is I get ravenous if I do not have some meat, even just a bit of it, with my meals. I usually end compensating for the lack of meat by eating lots of carbs. And no, beans don't cut it.
I had goat curry for dinner. Damn it was delicious...
I guess the best compromise is to buy only organic and humanely-farmed meat. The prices though are hard to stomach. And what about all the cat food I buy for my cats? I sure as hell can't afford organic meat for them. Yet the animals used for most canned cat food likely come from the massive slaughterhouses.
As long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.
Honestly, one should eat LESS meat, but giving it up entirely is another matter.
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals!
Here at Feelin' Blue Farms we're carefully breeding only the most depressed animals. With the help of our partners at Dignitas, all parties can 'rest' assured what you're eating is definitely going to a better place!
I love meat and eat everything, but I do think people in developed countries should eat be eating less of it, and better kinds of it, for health and environmental reasons. All that beef fed with imported soy grown on deforested land, or on land diverted away from human food crops, is bad news for everyone.
Wander over to a mirror OP.
Pull up your upper lip.
Take a good look at those teeth we call "canines".
They're not for chewing lettuce leaves.
Good Stuff, r69.
Nothing more needs to be said.
I can't bear to eat pork because pigs are even smarter than dogs. I am *trying* to cut out beef because I don't think I could ever personally kill a cow, so I don't believe I should eat its meat.
I have no qualms with eating fish or chicken. I have killed and scaled my own fish so I feel ok with eating that animal. Have yet to behead a chicken though.
Animals are here for their own purposes....to paraphrase Alice Walker. To all those saying Veganism is unhealthy, I would rather look like Alicia Silverstone than Gov Chris Christie.
Oh, and R62 is hilarious:)
I went out and stomped two rabbits to protest this thread. The frau sap dripping from the thread into the rest of the DL is clogging up the site. Blood will wash it clean - and we don't mean your incarnadine nectar, OP.
R69, I am not a vegetarian, but that's as silly an argument as a straight person saying that a dick is made for impregnating a vagina only. "It ain't made for fucking a male ass," could be the motto of Rethugs.
Sigh. OP, now you've depressed me. I'm going to have to drive over to Burger King and gorge on at least 11 Whoppers to lift me out of this funk.
Watch this and then try to eat meat for dinner tonight. If you can, you're a hell of a lot stronger than I am...
Read the book Forks Over Knives, or see the documentary.
You won't eat meat again.
You're absolutely right OP
Wrong R78 I read the book and saw the film. I still eat meat.
Very little and only from farmer's I know, but I do eat it.
I have now gone vegetarian after a recent visit The Animal Farm Sanctuary in Woodstock, NY. After hearing the stories of these animals and seeing the animals, I have decided to become a vegetarian.
Your post is inspiring for me to stick to my decision!
What? You can't possibly believe that R55. Mammals don't drink milk after infancy, so how the hell do you know they desire it? I know housecats enjoy milk when HUMANS GIVE IT TO THEM, though you are supposed to water it, so they don't get the shits, no? I have never heard of anyone giving their dogs milk.... I have heard of people giving them chocolate and the dogs enjoying it, but I wouldn't take that as evidence of all mammals desiring and thriving on chocolate and that a chocolate free lifestyle is unnatural and wrong.
This topic always reminds me, in the christian world only christian life is sacred. That was my first insight that chrishitianity was wrong from the get-go. I only indulge in philosophies that consider all life forms sacred.
I'm with R14.
I mostly eat fish, chicken and turkey, and support local farmers. I try not to eat "higher order" animals. Low fat protein is better for you anyway.
We eat too much red meat in this country.
R83, Ok, but I don't think you mean "christian life." Unless you have your own interpretation of the bible, or of the words christian and sacred. Otherwise, you can't explain the chosen-ness of Jews. Among other things.
R82 chocolate is actually poisonous to dogs. A small amount can't kill them but if they ever get into a large bag of it. Dark chocolate is the worst.
The idea of making animal afraid, feel fearful, is disgusting to me. Considering all the millennia mankind has survived without meat as a major staple in our diet, makes me avoid meat for myself. I cringe at the idea of animals as sacrificial food for religious purposes. Killing anything that is conscious it is alive is simply wrong.
There is debate on whether they are self aware R87. Personally, I think some are but we humans tend to project our own feelings onto them.
R87, I agree- especially because there are unnecessary, cruel (and well-documented) practices in the meat-farming industry. I personally can't support it.
[quote]Cows in particular are so terrified they have to held in machine that hugs them with fake affection in an attempt to calm them before slaughter.
Cows are terrified of everything.
If you spook 'em, they'll stampede!
[quote]why the heavy emphasis on animal protein?
Because its delicious and quite satisfying.
Humans have the teeth and digestive system to eat meat (and almost anything else).
All the pre-historic vegans died out.
[quote]Considering all the millennia mankind has survived without meat as a major staple in our diet
I'm not so sure that's true. We were probably foragers and ate anything including bugs and small rodents at one time.
Meat is more filling to me. I'll eat meatless dinners once a week or so, a meatless salad or a burger made with portobello instead of hamburger but I will always be hungry again within an hour or so. A real hamburger will fill me up enough I only have to eat 3 times a day, often 2.
For me, (as probably the same for everybody), going vegetarian would require a whole lifestyle restructuring to accommodate 5-6 smaller meals a day. The changes I'd have to go through would be far more than just skipping meat.
lol @ R74 - "impregnating a vagina".
you silly sausage. funny though.
Because I can't eat raw fruits & vegetables or vegetables that are al dante, they have to be cooked until there is no nutritional value left, I am dairy intollerant & have food allergies to almost everything, but meats,foul & sea food. To many food issues
R96, meat is murder most foul.
SPARE ME the TIRED vegan/vegetarian terrorists who attempt to bully people into not eating meat...go the fuck away.
R97 typifies the humorless and pompous creatures who refuse to eat meat because of their psychological disorders. After all, if it is not related to cultural traditions, vegetarianism is invariably associated with deep-seated and untreated mental illness. And of course denial, rage, and attempted control of others are the way these sad cases attempt to cope with their obvious issues. Their infantilized need to "protect the tormented babies of nature from evil men" is an evident reflection of how their self-concepts and regard for others are distorted.
With that said, the twat at R97 actually refused to state that "meat is murder most fowl." How pathetic.
Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well-being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way.
OP and his ilk, the delicious smells of a garlic rubbed pork loin are permeating my condo as it slowly roats in the oven. It will be so delicious.
Enjoy your nutloaves and soy burgers!
I was a vegetarian (not a vegan) for about a year. I didn't feel awful but I didn't feel strong or energetic, either. I went back to eating meat and feel more "normal" for lack of a better word. I have more energy and physical strength, but that's just me. Other people may have very different experiences.
I would never try to influence or force anyone to eat meat. I resent it when sanctimonious vegetarians and vegans try to impose their personal preferences and beliefs on me.
There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that promotes vegetarianism over meat eating. There is definitely nothing in the Bible that states that meat eating is immoral. The Old Testament is replete with meat eating and animal sacrifices that were ordered by God himself.
Jesus does not comment about our mistreatment of animals at all. In fact there is one passage where Jesus has a group of pigs killed by having them run over a cliff. In Matthew 8:31-32: “The demons began to entreat Him [Jesus], saying, “If You are going to cast us out, send us into the herd of swine.” And He said to them, “Go!” And they came out and went into the swine, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the waters.
Furthermore, if Jesus was a real advocate for vegetarianism then he would not have fed the multitude with fish. He would have used some sort of vegetable. Clearly, if he wanted people to be vegetarian or vegan he would demonstrate this by example. He clearly didn’t. Sorry, but if you are looking for compassion in the Bible towards animals, or even towards people for that matter, you won’t find that much of it.
Occasionally, I'd have a vegan or vegetarian for supper, but my boy, Jeffrey, didn't care for them.
Jesus eats meat, R103. Like a sow to the trough, can that man eat meat.
The word of god is bull shit
If you had to kill the animal yourself before you could eat it, would you still eat meat? That's really what it boils down to for me. If I couldn't kill the animal myself--or at the very least watch it be killed in front of me--then what right do I have eating it?
The Tofurky-like dinner sold by Trader Joes this year is delicious.
People think Jesus was a vegan just because he wore Birkenstocks
Jesus is a Republican and a member of the NRA, everyone knows this. He does not wear some hippie sandals, he wears leather cowboy boots, except when he goes to work where he wears fancy wingtips (cuz his Dad is a real stickler for office dress codes). He taught Adam how to hunt and gave Eve cooking lessons, too. He invented the Sunday roast, which Eve made every week after she and Adam rode their dinosaurs home from church. Christ, don't y'all read the Bible?