They don't hate gays. They think any sex outside of heterosexual marriage is a sin, but that is what the people teaches.
Sorry, I couldn't read the story. Fox!
[quote]They don't hate gays. They think any sex outside of heterosexual marriage is a sin
Which means they hate gays.
Believing that what someone does is a sin does not in itself mean they hate that person, they may or may not.
Yeah, since when is it considered hate to think certain sexual activity is a sin? Since most Christians think masturbation and lustful thoughts are sin, do you think they hate masturbators, dirty thinkers, and porn users too? Having beliefs about the morality of sexual behavior is not hate.
"I don't hate you, I just think you're going to hell in spite knowing nothing else about you or knowing anything about your relationship. Love the sinner, hate the sin."
Because that line of thinking makes sense.
Bottom line: believing homosexuality to be a sin = hating gays, every time, in every context, in every situation.
Are they the ones who make those great pancakes?
I'll take a dollar stack please.
IHOP? Sin and pancakes don't mix.
Incidentally, I know of several atheists who hate gays. They don't believe in sin.
R6 is right.
R6, that statement is ridiculous. By the way, not everyone who believes that homosexuality is a sin believes in hell.
I know a woman who thinks homosexuality is a sin -- but when her daughter's high school classmate was disowned by his parents because he came out of the closet, she took him into her home and fed, clothed and supported him during his junior year and the beginning of his senior year, until his parents let him come back home. She adores him (and adores me), she's pro-gay marriage, but she still believes gayness is a sin.
Religion is a funny thing.
R9 Incidentally, you know several assholes.
r6, actually most Protestant Christians do not believe being gay or even homosexual sex sends you to hell. In evangelical Protestant doctrine, particular sins do not send you to hell, only disbelief in Jesus Christ as God and the only way to be forgiven of sin and go to heaven is what sends people to hell. Disbelief in Jesus sends people to hell, in other words. So, do you think it is hate to believe not believing in Jesus sends people to hell?
One of the biggest (gay) sluts I know belongs to International House of Prayer. To say that he has serious struggles with sexuality is the understatement of the year.
Anyone here who thinks they don't hate gays is a MORON. The cult leader has on numerous occasions stated the party line that homosexuality is a grievous sin against their god. They are a terribly misguided, manipulated group of young people indoctrinated by a Svengali. I almost feel sad for them.
Bengali in Platforms
R15, I don't know about the IHP, so I can't say if they're hating gays or not, I'm saying that the belief that it's a sin does not necessarily mean hate.
R13, I know more than several, I'm sure you do too.
The dogma of this particular sect might be hateful of gays. However, it would be unwise to say that all Christians (and offshoots or even cults thereof) hate gays.
Isn't there more than one of these churches? Or maybe they're coincidentally named.
Yea, R17 but the difference about you and I is I dont go around using the hate spewed by assholes to back up flawed logic.
I remember a few years back when a bunch of us joined in their forum. I remember joining as Cheryl and they somehow took me in because I was so much of a narc. We had them going for a day or two but then they wised up.
Look you clueless bible-heads, we don't care.
You have no idea because you are not us, TOO MANY OF THEM work against us.
We don't want ANY churchies around.
It's stupid anyway believing in that weak-minded drivel. We have no use for any of it. Got it?
Sorry to butt in, R19, but I wouldn't call R9's implied hypothesis "flawed logic." In fact the implied hypothesis itself, that "some people hate gays who, according to some posters on this thread, would have no reason to do so" aligns well with basic logical principles. Personal truths from a legitimate sample group, whether assholes or not, can be a way of backing up one's opinions.
Overall, your R19 post seems flawed.
Are they really allowed to use a trademarked name?
Churches and cults prey on the ones who suffer from homophobia. Instead of making them confront their own issues with homosexuality the churches and cults offer themselves as sounding boards and support groups that nurture the homophobes' fear and hate and take it up a notch ... for a price/donation, of course.
Not all denominations, R24.
IHOP took them to court to protect its brand and won, r23. The use of "IHOP" is strictly prohibited. The use of "International House of Prayer" is allowed.
Bengali in Platforms
[quote]Since most Christians think masturbation and lustful thoughts are sin, do you think they hate masturbators, dirty thinkers, and porn users too?
Yes, they absolutely do r5.
Jesuscunt at r4/r9/r11/r16/r17 needs to fuck the fuck off back to Focus on the Family.
Shove your sin up your rancid gash, churchy. We don't want you here.
R28, you are a moron. I don't go to church.
There goes your theory about me being a "jesuscunt" or churchy.
People like you make gays look stupid, for that you should be banned.
[quote] People like you make gays look stupid
Only to people who are already homophobic, like you.
Fuck you, liar. Isn't that a sin too, apologist quisling jesuscunt jamie?
My partner teaches at a school in that area.
She's seen first had the damage this place causes young people. Not just the GLBT who are unfortunate enough to be born into a family that believe this bullshit- but the straight kids who have to go out into the real world and face the fact that not everyone believes like they do.
One young man was very nice to people but absolutely stuck when he was told that marriages work best when Men and Women share duties and Women have an opinion in their daily lives.
This boy had the sincere belief that Men were the "deciders" of the household. Men were the "protectors" and women were the baby makers. He could NOT grasp WHY a woman would want to hold a job or do ... shudder... anything but womanly chores.
And He really couldn't understand why he couldn't keep a girlfriend.
Fundamentalists are fucking emotional morons and they're a bane to the world. Every fundie in a classroom slows the pace to accomodate for their backward thinking.
OP I really don't want to give FOX news any ad revenue, can you sum up the story for us, doll?
These people are shitbonkers crazy.
[quote]"Founded 12 years ago by Mike Bickle, a self-trained evangelical pastor, with a group of 20, the International House of Prayer, in a former strip mall, now draws tens of thousands of worshipers to its revival meetings. A wholly devoted cadre of 1,000 staff members, labeled missionaries, have given up careers to move here, living off donations and spending several hours a day in the prayer hall to revel in what they describe as direct communication with God. Another thousand students attend the adjacent Bible college, preparing to spread this fervent brand of Christianity.
The well-populated prayer room and the devout community growing up around it are at the epicenter of a little known but expanding national network: dozens of groups that are stressing perpetual prayer in a way seldom seen in modern America, said Marcus Yoars, the editor of Charisma, an evangelical magazine. Many of them were inspired by the operation here, though none have maintained such an elaborate 24-hour system of worship, seen around the world on a live webcast.
Mr. Bickle has won praise from many evangelicals, but he has also been criticized by some pastors for what they describe as unorthodox theology and a cultish atmosphere, charges that Mr. Bickle rejects. Some former students said they had been expelled for questioning the fascination with mystical healings, prophesies, angels and demons.
The ministry has also drawn fire for helping Gov. Rick Perry of Texas plan a day of prayer in Houston, which is scheduled for August and will be dominated by ardent opponents of abortion and gay rights. Mr. Bickle said he avoided direct involvement in partisan politics himself, but a member of his leadership group, Lou Engle, has a side group, The Call, that organized stadium revivals to promote California’s Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage."
R28 & 30, the only thing homophobic about me is that I can't stand idiots like you.
Every other gay in the world=cool
R35, you are a homophobic straight woman. that much is obvious to everyone but you. To even suggest that questionable posts on DL should or would justify making sweeping generalizations is ludicrous. You don't know any gays. The only ones you encounter are here and you think that qualifies you as some kind of "gay friendly but stern" ally.
You're funny R36. But not very good at reading people. While you got my gender right, you were wrong about my sexuality. I'm bi. Keep trying though.
As far as knowing no gays, plenty of women I've been with were lesbians, not bi, there are several gay men in my family, who the fuck in this world has no gay family or friends?
Good god, you're stupid.
Fine, you're a bi homophobe who is quick to come to justification for generalizations about minorities. Still a homophobe, still a bigoted mindset
Well, of course you sing that makes it so...
Choke on your tears and cry to someone else bitch.
Regardless, you're still a Jesuscunt r37, therefore: fuck off.
Explain that. How is someone who is nonreligious, goes to no church or temple, who was raised in a Jewish home by Jewish parents a Jesuscunt. I really would like to hear how your mind works. I need a good laugh.
Here is a non-Fox story. I wish the "they don't hate the gays/they do hate the gays" debate would stop, but it is a free country, so while it is not the topic of the story really, carry on.
News is making it look like International House of Prayer may be some sort of sex cult.
R42 Arent all religions some sort of sex cult? I mean, it seems that's all they think about. Who is having sex, what kind of sex, with whom, when and where. The Bible is full of sex, the Koran is full of sex, the Torah too. The fixation religion has with sex its really kind of freaky.
Please. Maybe you've had bad experiences, but plenty of actual Christians are genuinely cool with gays.
Regarding the sex cult thing, I wouldn't be surprised.
[quote]Believing that what someone does is a sin does not in itself mean they hate that person, they may or may not.
Theoretically true. In practice, very seldom the case.
R43 Not an attack, but most individuals are sex cults in and of themselves. Also, one could argue that sex was more matter-of-factly "important" before this era-ish.
r35, You don't realize that a gay or bi person can be homophobic too.
I don't care to make any assumptions about you or your life and I don't care about much of what your on about here.
But don't think that calling yourself and 'ally' and stating connections to gay people automatically excuses anything you might say or do that is offensive to other gay people.
If someone is offended by you or your religion, being gay or bi or related to gays is not a automatic 'win'. Just FYI.
The fact is that viewing being gay, acting gay, or have gay sex as a 'sin' is offensive. That much should be uncontested. That believe hurts people, period. Defending that pov or the people who blindly accept it, here in a gay forum is calling for shit.
R46 I think in order to be considered a cult, they need to have more than one member.
R47, I do realize that. I'm not defending anyone, but I personally know people who feel that the way I live is a sin, but who do not hate me. I realize a lot of religious people are hateful, but to say they all are is as ridiculous as saying all gays are fem, or all lesbians are butch.
I don't care who likes what I'm saying or not, the truth is the truth.
How can they be anti-gay when their most famous item is called Rooty Tooty Fresh and Frooty?
Some religious institutions start out welcoming, then you quickly realize that they are very restrictive and condemnatory towards ANYONE that thinks or acts "outside of their very narrow sphere of 'acceptability.'" Why do supposed followers of Christ, who was billed as loving and all-inclusive, have such a fearful attitude towards anyone who is not exactly like them in all ways?
R51, because they use their religion as an excuse. They don't really care about sin, if they did, they'd hate anyone who has sex before marriage. That includes THEMSELVES. They hate and need an excuse to try to legitimize their hate. So they mention that homosexuality is a sin, while they shack up with their significant other.
Let's please refrain from ad hominem attacks on places just because they are places of worship. There are so many ministries out there doing so much good. you need to show them respect and acknowledge their usefulness in or society. Look at hurricane sandy.
[quote] Well, of course you sing that makes it so... (Eyeroll) Choke on your tears and cry to someone else bitch.
You clearly have a problem with fags R41 and you need to get your targets right. Are you new here?
Agreed r53. Why are gays so anti-religion. It's offensive and I don't need to come here and read that bile. I think many are angry with God for making them gay.
Yeah, feel free to internalize your trauma with religious groups, but don't generalize. For just one example, I know a couple who's been in charge of one of the most important private ministries in the country for years. I've personally watched both of them respond to people who talk negatively about gay people by nonchalantly saying, "oh, some of our best friends are gay!"
Anyway, it's probably much more interesting to discuss this particular group. There has to be more to them than how they feel about gayness.
Usually when I go to IHOP, I just get figuratively raped...
$3.00 for a small orange juice?! What the hell is *that* about?!
How can IHOP be so sanctimonious when their Stuffed French Toast is sinfully delicious?
Ok troll, so your tactic is moving from Obama-centric to this idiotic fluff?
We get it, you hate everybody who is not an unhinged racist that votes with a party that works against their own best interest.
So you know we aren't going to fall for the Obama Chicken Little routine so you have to try to get us up with gay bashing.
You're too fucking stupid for words. And everybody here is going to ignore you dumb-ass baiting.
r46 just shut the fuck up. You aren't even making sense.
Their founder based his "theology" on desexualizing the Song of Songs, so you can see why he attracted all the pervs.
The IHOP acronym must have seemed like a joke.
Who is the loony apologist??
Being gay is not a sin. Having gay sex is not a sin. This is a gay website, so get the fuck out if you think it is.
There is no "loony apologist". It's a troll. That is all it is. Ignore it.
I'm not the Jewish chick, but I take offense to people who generalize those who label themselves as religious. The difference is that you can't even handle that idea on a most basic level, so all you can say is "shut the fuck up."
r65 come off it. You know damn good and well that the phrase "but most individuals are sex cults in and of themselves" makes NO sense. And yes, that poster should shut the fuck up for it.
R66, Like most people are obsessed with sex on some level and wish all relevant people would fit into their own paradigm? Then yes, actually. It makes some sense. When individuals attempt to organize and control it, then of course we have disasters waiting to happen. Not everyone does this or abides by it, though.
There's been a lot more than "shut the fuck up" on this thread R54. You're just another religious bigot who prefers to take the easy way out, by taking the minorities to task rather than addressing the real problem.
You are a coward.
Trolldar R68 to see him criticize himself. Are YOU new here bitch face?
R68, A lot more such as what? "Religious people hate gays"? Because it doesn't seem like much more than that. Oh, well.