The Puerto Ricans decided in a non-binding plebiscite on November 6 to become a state. In 2009, Puerto Rico's median household income was $18,314, while the poorest state of the Union (Mississippi) had a median household income of $36,646.
Do you want Puerto Rico to become the 51st state? What would happen in American politics if it did?
More Democrats - I'd be thrilled.
Two more Democrats in the Senate.
If we can get statehood for the Virgin Islands, that would be even more awesome.
If Puerto Rico became a state, it would have the same number of electors as Oklahoma, Connecticut, and Oregon - 7.
Blatino husbears for everyone!
I think it would result in a great influx of giant Puerto Rican pinga in the area.
I hope it happens. The opinion in PR has been divided-some want PR to become a state, others want it to be an independent country and a 3rd group likes the territory status.
Personally I think territories should be a thing of the past. Either be an equal part of a country or become a seperate nation.
The Midwest would descend into a nativist frenzy. Their subsequent veer to the hard right would render them even more irrelevant.
The two official languages of Puerto Rico are Spanish and English. Republicans would squawk, but there is precedence for that with New Mexico.
You really think the repukes in the House of Reps will ever let this happen?
Remember this great moment when the Republicans welcomed the Puerto Rican delegate to their convention?
I believe in self-determination, but the distribution of opinions would make it hard to feel like any change for now would please enough Puerto Ricans to be fair. If a consensus does forms, Puerto Ricans should choose, whether it be independence or statehood.
Statehood for the island would represent an enormous challenge and change in stance - the language and culture issues would require sensitivity and care for decades. It is not Hawaii. The cost to the USA of helping to equalize opportunity, infrastructure, and such would be great. But those are all things that should be going on now, anyway, regardless of political status.
And my personal feeling is that perhaps independence would be appropriate. Our connection feels like a remnant of bad, benighted policies. But, again, I would welcome Puerto Rico as a state, if that is what Puerto Ricans would want.
PR...foreskin central. Welcome to all those uncircumcised sexy men.
[quote]The Midwest would descend into a nativist frenzy. Their subsequent veer to the hard right would render them even more irrelevant.
Yes, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan ... all irrelevant midwestern states.
Don't count on it, half the men are circumcised in P.R.
I for one welcome the possibility of Puerto Rico applying to become the 51st state. Despite the territory having a predominantly latin and catholic culture, which may seem at odds with current US norms, but if handled correctly and taking into account the population moving towards a more multi-racial majority, with Hispanics destined to move to the forefront in influencing how American Culture is shaped in the 21st century, then it would be a great boon. Its time for the WASPs to face facts, the US is slowly becoming latinised. As South America, if they play their cards right, gains more global influence in coming decades, it would make more sense for the US, to ally itself more with its neighbours rather than trying to take them on, accept the increasing influence on Latino culture at home, and then America rather than interfering in the rest of the world, could position itself as the leading nation in the Western Hemisphere and focus on promoting the values and philosophy of the Constitution which in in fact its most valuable contribution to the world. Not big business or the military.
Plus, Puerto Rico will benefit greatly from the investment of tax dollars and encouraging business and defence security. Should be a fair return considering how the colonisation of their island and the great contribution their people have made to the low end service sector in the US. I think the younger generation are smart enough to see that their future lies in being a federal nation.
I also think territories should be a thing of the past. It's all the benefits of citizenship with none of the responsibilities; a very outdated concept, imho. Either become a state or go independent.
Yeah, they're totally irrelevant, R12. Only Iowa is a swing state. All of those states are either stagnant or shrinking in population, and their populations are mostly white and aging.
If this happens, I insist that we maintain 50 states/stars by combining the Dakotas. I'm sick and tired of those half dozen states from Idaho to the Dakotas hogging more than a tenth of the Senate for their pitiful, meager, vastly homogeneous (not to mention reactionary) population.
I totally agree r18! Those backward rube states are so sparsely populated, but their representation in the Senate is disproportionate.
Do it, and make Spanish a co-official language with English, nationwide. I'm all in favor.
r18, I never thought of that but it's a good idea. The state of Dakota. They really are the same shit anyway. All I know is Mt. Rushmore is in one of them.
ha ha R21. This belongs on another thread but I've met people who believe the faces on Mt. Rushmore were created by God.
[quote]They really are the same shit anyway.
[quote]All I know is Mt. Rushmore is in one of them.
Um, R18? that's EXACTLY why we have the system set up the way that it is: so larger states don't have more say than smaller states in a representative government.
Why do they want it now?
I always thought it was weird how Puerto Ricans are full fledged citizens, while PR was somewhat self governing territory.
But, are Puerto Ricans ready for what will happen to the island if it becomes a state? If it's a state, it's just like any other, and anyone can move there (and plenty will), and any corporation or development company can move and make it like any other U.S. destination. Basically, it will lose some authenticity.
If they know that, and still want to be a state, so be it.
It's interesting to wonder what would the US be like right now if all the territories they won from Spain -- Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines -- all became US states. Philippines alone would have at least 100 electoral votes.
but. . . "I want to Live In America!!!"
that WOULD be fascinating.
Have they any Oil?
Mayor Gloomberg is counting on it for when he seeks higher office. Trust.
We are all for the infusion of large, uncut, heavily-hooded. and thick Puerto Rican pinga. A parade of blatino husbears has our mussy moist and quivvering.
We have used and abused them and we already provide for their welfare...they might as well be a state unless they have something better.
Only if they build a bridge so we can drive there.
The only problem, it would be very hard to design an American flag with 51 stars.
[QUOTE] The Midwest would descend into a nativist frenzy.
Hardly, Puerto Ricans are nothing new around here.
Why are you talking about making Puerto Rico a steak?
Next thing you know you'll want to make Idaho a baked potato with chives
[quote]The only problem, it would be very hard to design an American flag with 51 stars.
Three rows of eight stars interspersed with three rows of nine stars is 51. Either that or we get Texas to secede and keep the 50-star flag.
Why would the people of Puerto Rico even want to become Americans?
-Because they really need the Gringo 1% to mock their culture and turn their island into a resort for wealthy white Americans?
Why would we Americans want to extend our fiscal borders and responsibility to an even greater area?
--Because this worked really well for the Roman empire? Because we've been wizards at turning around near-bankrupt states and municipalities? Because we need to complicate our economy (and our currency)? So PR can become the Greece to our EU?
Of course P.R. wants to become a state.
It's like asking a little person if they want to be full-height.
It'll never happen.
The GOP House will not allow it. They don't want more Democrats in the Congress.
[quote]The GOP House will not allow it. They don't want more Democrats in the Congress.
They would if they want to start winning some of the Latino voters they're losing, and losing badly now.
There's apparently no Constitutional law for how a territory becomes a state, but the actual legislation has been done historically after a simple majority vote of both houses of Congress and a signature by the President.
Now, of course, they'll never let DC become a state because they don't care about making inroads with African-Americans.
The Voice of the Night
Most people under 60 don't think about it at all. Are you in a home?
[quote]The only problem, it would be very hard to design an American flag with 51 stars.
Wow, really? Are you seriously this dumb?
It's been done already.
So many people go back and forth, Puerto Rico is known in The Big Apple as NYC's sixth borough.
I'm perfectly aware, r24, of the reasons for granting each state two senators. In the case of states like RI and VT it makes sense. Not in the case of a bunch of small-population states with minimal economic and demographic diversity among them (especially in an age of telecommunications and air travel).
PR surpasses southern states on the number of people on welfare.
I thought PR had a GOP governor. Gerald Ford pursued PR statehood for that very reason: he thought it would be conservative.
The GOP is looking for a way in for 2016. The House pushing for Statehood would make them look friendly to the latin vote.
Not really R49. They already have the Cuban vote and they won't ever get PR votes in this country, only overseas PR votes. Mexican Americans probably don't care and wouldn't necessarily back PR having more of a voice than they do.
Nobody knows in America
Puerto Rico's in America!
Honest question - what possible reason would the US have for granting statehood to PR. What could they contribute. The US already supports them economically, but gets little in return.
Also, why is it any less racist to cheer for the demographic shift away from wires as it is to cheer for the whites. Frankly, I'd rather live in a Romney America than most African countries, Mexico under the drug cartels, or Colombia.
Though really, we are likely to be better off in an Obama America, not because of race, but policy.
Let it go, R37. Texas isn't leaving, even if the eldergays quake and sway collectively in their muumuus.
r52 makes an excellent point. I, for one, don't want them as a 51st state and am puzzled why the United States has hung on to this island as long as it has, aside from the "Communist Cuba" argument. I say give them independence immediately or ASAP or at the very least they may continue the Commonwealth status or some other redefined associative statusT but in no way should they become a state. There is a serious independence movement in Hawaii, especially among native Hawaiians, some of whom want to restore their monarchy that the Americans overthrew in 1893 for the sake of pineapple production and naval presence. Americans and the United States does not need any more land or expansion and the reason the United States got Puerto Rico in the first place was due to a trumped up war with Spain (1898) at the time fueled by American imperialism trying to feed off decaying Spanish imperialism. The US got the Philippines (along with another nasty war there under McKinley and T. Roosevelt) and passed the Platt Amendment regarding Cuba at the same time. NO STATEHOOD to further vindicate old, outdated American imperialism! That among other cogent reasons. Let me see a move also for the British and Americans to unite the Virgin Islands and give them independence also. Has anyone forgotten the Puerto Rican nationalists who narrowly missed Truman in 1952 in an attempted assassination? There is no easy solution for this I will admit but statehood is NOT one of the ways!
A little off, but has anyone thought of a kind of commonwealth/association status for at least some of the Indian reservations? I'm thinking it may be time to officially call them something other than "reservations" and why do reservations not have explicit representation in Congress? Can someone explain this?
Good point, R55. How about some sort of "Native American Nations" as a state? "District of Native Americans"?
Cuba should be the 51st state, and PR the 52nd.
I think we should give PR to Mexico as a sinko the mayo prissy.
Puerto Rico, my heart's devotion
Let it sink back in the ocean
[quote] Why would the people of Puerto Rico even want to become Americans?
They are Americans.
Another pathetic example of gay men thinking with their dicks. Only positive reason for statehood is more pinga to chupa.
We have enough foreigners already!
Tippi Paxton Osgood
Be careful what you wish for with Latinos. I've met many immigrants from Mexico, Central and South America and a great deal of them believe in police states. It's crazy, I know. But there's this law and order thing, and the idea that either you have a police state or else gangs will take over.
Also, many are anti-union because they feel they made it on their own, so they would never pay dues to a union. "I came here with nothing, I worked like a dog... Blah blah.. I'm a success and I didn't need any union! The unions fought against immigrant labor! Why should you join some union and pay the bosses union dues? Better to be your own boss."
Lots of contractors around here are Latino immigrants and I ask them about their kids, how are they doing, etc. I have a son in the school district, so some of their kids are in his class. I have been shocked by a few of them when I say something like, "Oh my son says your son is in the school orchestra with him," and there follows some disparagement of school and education in general. They have an attitude like, "I didn't need an education to be successful! Look at me, I got my own business. You have to get out there in the world and be street smart, etc, etc." I get the distinct impression that they don't want their kids to even finish high school. I mean, I'm all in favor of a strong work ethic, but that's going too far.
I don't think that it's so much that they don't care to make inroads with African American voters, R42. It's just that they are fully aware that they can't, at least not by 2016. It will likely take generations to make significant inroads with African American voters and they simply cannot wait that long. Republicans believe that they can flip a considerable percentage of Latino voters much more quickly.
Republicans think Latinos are dark-skinned rednecks, and if they can find some prejudice of theirs to appeal to, they'll get a lot of their vote very quickly. Like, "American liberals are all welfare beggars and don't want to work, they want you to support them."
They're counting on a significant portion of these people being illiterate, ignorant, and selfish, just like they are. Plop them down in front of Fox News for a few years and presto! dark skinned Teabaggers. It scares me to think that appealing to ignorance is their whole m.o., and if they hit the right note, they could flip all these people in four years.
I would like the Virgins to get statehood so we can have 52 States.
r56, I like your enthusiasm, but the idea for an "Indian state" was tried with Oklahoma, which I think still is officially the unity of "Indian territory" and the territory of Oklahoma which was the white part (both Native and White Americans owned slaves there and after the Civil War some tribes had to grant their erstwhile slaves tribal "citizenship"). As I'm sure we are all aware, at least many here on DL, Oklahoma is not the fun place made out to be in the musical, at least not in this day and age. And r57, I think there actually was an attempt to make Cuba an American territory, taking it away from Spain, in the early 19th century when Florida was acquired from Spain. For some reason it didn't pan out, but by the end of the 19th century as part of the terms of the Spanish-American War (1898), the Platt Amendment was passed by Congress (and presumably signed by President McKinley) allowing the US to intervene in Cuban affairs any time it was deemed necessary. Franklin Roosevelt abrogated the Platt Amendment with the Good Neighbor Policy of 1933 but that didn't stop John Kennedy, on bad advice from Eisenhower advisors, to stage the Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961. Anyway, all this is background for Puerto Rico and the swirl of questions as to why its status is what it is. Castro has repeatedly called for Puerto Rican independence as well as the return of the Guantanamo naval base--both are good ideas worth exploring and considering seriously.
R63 you are absolutely right, I have worked with a number of Mexicans who often point out the same strange idea and aren't necessarily upset if their kids decide to quit school. Another odd sentiment, especially among the more gangster related males is that you somehow prove your manhood if you spend time in jail. I say if that's how they feel then jail should be made especially miserable for them with hard, heavy labor--harder than just breaking rocks in the sun or making license plates, we'll see who gets tired of jail then.
The upshot of all this is that a knee-jerk reaction to make Puerto Rico a state would be absolute disaster in so many ways. If you girls like the Latin dick so much there's no stopping you from going there as a tourist and fucking your brains out with the natives--statehood is something entirely different.
The level of ignorance in this thread is astounding, I feel like I've stumbled into some backwards freeper site.
First of all PR does not mooch off of the US taxpayers, the government makes money off of the island via import and export taxes.
People on the island always pay more for the same goods because of this, that's why many websites do not allow purchases originating from the Puerto Rico. ( look at best buy)
The US has been making money off of rum taxes for decades, at one time that tax was 15% before Puerto Ricans caught on and negotiated some better rates.
Puerto Ricans are loyal Americans, they have fought on our side in every single skirmish we got ourselves into.
When the draft was enforced Puerto Ricans were required to fight even though they cannot vote for the president that governs them nor do they have a real voice in congress.
They are at our mercy yet we treat them like second class citizens and that has to stop .
Puerto Ricans also pay into social security and have taxes imposed on them by the local government so the US is not exactly sustaining them contrary to what some people are assuming.
Puerto Rico is still a valuable asset in terms of national security because of its position in the Caribbean.
We halve several military installations on the island, Arecibo's snooping station comes to mind.
Puerto Rico will thrive as a state just like Hawaii went to do and ensure many more years of democratic dominance.
They population of aprox 3.7million would gives us 7 electoral votes and don't kid yourself if you think Puerto Ricans think like other Latin American cultures, the people are not conservative when it comes to civil liberties and the island has traditionally voted democratic.
The island is very Americanized and while they are catholic they still have liberal views.
r68, much of what you say can also be used as an argument for independence. If you read some of the posts above yours you will find that there is today an independence movement in Hawaii. The United States doesn't need to make Puerto Rico a state just to maintain a military presence there, in fact, there is a military presence on Cuban soil at Guantanamo Bay. The United States does not need any more land or expansion, period. If I were Puerto Rican I would want independence for the very least reason that it was acquired by the US in a contrived way resulting from a trumped up war with Spain--I, for one, am NOT in favor of vindicating that with statehood.
R69 Puerto Ricans do NOT want independence, that movement has less than 6% of the vote.
Puerto Rico should have been a state decades ago but due to the oppression of their culture many felt that statehood was not worth the loss of language and heritage so the vote for statehood after decades of voting against it was huge.
When people like shitstain Santoroum visit the island and insult the population by telling them that they must speak English only before they can be considered for statehood you end up with lots of anger and indecision.
We need to end colonial rule and accept Puerto Rico into the union, that's what they want.
The US has no business treating Puerto Ricans or any other territories like second class citizens that can be used for cannon fodder but have no rights.
Our country was founded on the principle of no taxation without representation, well it's time to extend that right to others.
To the sucktents!
Vot eez zis Puerto Rican Trench I've been hearing about?
[r63] and [r67] Puerto Ricans are already citizens ~ Mexicans and Puerto Ricans both speak Spanish, but their cutures are different. Puerto Rico has been part of the United States about as long as Hawaii has been.
We don't want them. They don't work. Lazy people are least the ones that live here.
How about we make them a state if they take back the ones that live here?
I want Puerto Rico to be a state just so that the US can have a flag design like R16. All my life's a circle, sunrise and sundown...........
Everyone needs to read beyond sound bites and know what the ballot looked like (I know, I'm here in Puerto Rico and I voted) and how misleading the results are. The current status was only put as a yes or no answer in the first part of the ballot, where it was ganged up by pro-independence, pro-statehood, and other ideologies. The second question, the status ballot, had three choices, none of which were the current status, but one of which was a close - yet more sovereign - version of it.
This caused the vote of those who want a Free Associated Commonwealth to split, between those who abstained from that part of the ballot (450,000) because their choice was not there and those who voted for the sovereign Commonwealth mash-up (about 400,000). It would be like splitting the Democratic Party choices between liberals and moderates.
When all is said and done, statehood only got fortysomething% of the voting population's vote and no properly informed congress in its full capacity will act on such weak numbers. Put in another way, if the statehood status had been subject to the same lopsided form of questioning ("do you want statehood?" and then not showing it among status options later) it would not have won. The only fair way of conducting an impartial plebiscite in Puerto Rico is not through yes or no questions that don't reflect the diversity of status choices but by a full display of the three full-fledged status choices that have existed for decades, IN THE SAME QUESTION.
Even if you just compare the yes answer to the statehood answer, the results are too close to do anything major about it like bring it to congress. A resounding majority(50 + 1 % or better yet 2/3) is needed
Mississippi has a median household income of $36,646? In play money?
This might be part of the Latino payback. But it's only east coast (PR). Combined with reworking the Mexican/South American immigration issues on the west coast.
Now, if the various Latinos could just get along...
They were clever to state it that way, R76. Now everyone thinks Puerto Rico wants statehood. Self-fulfilling leading question?
[quote]Another pathetic example of gay men thinking with their dicks. Only positive reason for statehood is more pinga to chupa.
Just think of the euphoria you will experience when the head of this is thing is slamming your second ring
r68 r70, your argument "for statehood" in both your posts can still be taken for somewhat reasonable statements for independence as well. If I thought my country was being used or treated as a colony with the people "second class" citizens my impulse would not be to join the country that is perpetuating it but to seek to dissolve those ties and strive for independence. Why do you have such antipathy for independence? The United States itself used basically the same argument in the Declaration of Independence (read it!) and sought to sever the ties with Britain, not draw closer to it! The same goes for India or Indochina. The natural course is for independence; I cannot understand the reasoning behind statehood unless it is that Puerto Rico thinks it has too much at stake economically, financially, etc. to lose by having independence which is really saying that they want all "the goodies" that come with being a US dependency. That is devaluing your own heritage and culture. I think the trend seems to be for independence in other areas of the world: Chechnya, Kosovo, Scotland, New Caledonia, the West Bank (Palestine)--what is it about Puerto Rico that you say makes them deny this? Not too long ago the Basques of Spain were shedding their own blood to seek independence. Kurdistan and the Kurds, a people who want an independent homeland may never have one; how is the situation in Puerto Rico that much different?
R77, in Mississippi, that means households with two working adults. Do the math.
Cubans voted 50-47 for Obama. In 2000, they supported Bush 75-25, and 71-29 in 2004.
Among working class Hispanics there is an indifference to education--but this is also true among working class white Americans. My cousin used to teach in FL and she told stories about white students in the school district who (a)would go into the military rather than go to college, or (b)drop out and go to work since they wanted to "earn a living." I don't think it's a racial or ethnic thing as much as it is a matter of class.
It would remove all the dramatic tension from WEST SIDE STORY, therefore we must abandon the idea.
Well, r78, would it all make sense if I told you which government put together the ballot? Hint: they are pro-statehood.
The more interesting results are the general election results, some of which may have to do with political status but most of it which has to do with current issues and dislike for the now unseated governor (a pro-statehood Republican):
Governor of Puerto Rico: Cute/charming Pro-Commonwealth (Free Associated State) Moderate Democrat who thanks God a lot (think Clinton)unseated a baby-faced (he's nicknamed Milhaus) 52-yr-old uber capitalist pro-statehood Republican who reduced government (ruthlessly fired 230,000 employees without as much as an "I feel your pain"), distances himself from the gay community, but doesn't get too religious (think Nixon) - by 18,000 votes.
Mayor of San Juan: Liberal, feminist, pro-choice, pro-LGBT, pro-Sovereign Commonwealth (Free Associated Sovereign State) multiply married Democrat woman with a corporate HR background, a daughter "from a relationship", and rumored to be a lesbian, comfortably upset the 3-term pro-Statehood Democrat incumbent with an OK track record and rumored to be a cokehead (he was the one with the infamous Dissected Animal Christmas Card that went viral).
Resident Commisioner (Puerto Rico Congress Representative with voice but no vote): Cute Incumbent Pro-Statehood DEMOCRAT remained in power.
President of the Senate - will likely be this seasoned 47-year old pro-Commonwealth (Free Associated State) Princeton graduate (2 years under Michelle Obama) Moderate Democrat who in the past has lost a bid for San Juan mayor and has been kept from running for higher office - even by leaders of his own party - due to pesky gay rumors.
Loving San Juan's new mayor
Oops, PR governor fired 23,000 not 230,000. Sorry for typo.
Every PR I've known wants to be independent of the US.
Anyone else notice that at r16 the new US flag including Puerto Rico has a five pointed star at the center? Isn't that some occult symbol?
r87, most Puerto Ricans who live outside Puerto Rico are pro-independence. It's a patriotic yearning that kicks in when you're abroad, and realize how different your culture is. It happened to me for 25 years while I lived in New York and now I'm back in the Island and not so sure about independence or for that matter relinquishing American citizenship.
It was my understanding that we ask PR if they want to be a state, independent or a commonwealth once every decade or so for propriety's sake. And they always voted to keep things the way they are.
I'm Puerto Rican and I don't want independence. What i do want is a little respect. I have a lot of family in the military and know that they and many others have risked their lives to fight for America like any other American. I don't understand the sentiment here that we're smooching off of the U.S. That's just not the case at all.
The ones smooching off of America are the people that sneak into the U.S. without any documentation; get paid under the table and avoid taxes. Don't even get me started.
I went to PR last Christmas. It's a shithole, except for maybe the phosphorescent bay and El Yunque. (It would have been nice to see a chupacbra!)
Vieques is beautiful however, wild horses run free and the beaches are pristine, except for the old miltary huts here and there. But the "town" is a dump and basically nonexistant.
So it doesn't matter to me. Except they can keep Yara and Alexis.
R87 Then you must not know any Puerto Ricans because those wanting independence are in the minority, on and off the island.
Once again they do not want to sever ties with the US just some respect and many are now realizing that statehood is the only way that Puerto Ricans will have representation and respect.
To the moron who said that our military base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is sufficient; really?
You do realize that Cuba is hostile territory and we cannot risk using this base as our only military presence in the Caribbean.
Your stupidity is frightening.
Most Puerto Ricans prefer the status quo as they do not pay federal income taxes if they reside and work in PR. When they want to come to the mainland or move here, they are free to do so at any time as American citizens.
Given the current polarity in the House and the pressing issue of the fiscal cliff, the general sentiment among both Democrats and Republicans is they would prefer not to introduce a bill for statehood anytime soon.
Puerto Rico is very poor and it would cost the taxpayers more than $7 billion annually to grant Medicaid funding and enhance welfare benefits. Not exactly a popular topic right now in this fiscal environment.
Gilda rocks and Jane was so pretty.
How can anyone think the SNL of today is even a shadow of this greatness...
BTW Gilda are you still dead?
Why do Mexicans hate PR's?
I asked my Puerto Rican friend about this and she said as she saw it the main advantage would be that people whose primary residences were on Puerto Rico would be allotted their own congressional representatives (currently, as with residents of D.C., they are not represented in Congress) but the main downside would be that it would further strip Puerto Ricans of their regional and ethnic identity.
ND may be a rube state, but it's the fastest growing state in the country.