Can This Country Really Be Splint Right Down The Middle?
Does one half actually want to go back to the 50's with women in the subservient role, gays back in the closet and more war? Really, this race is even? Or is it just the press making headlines and keeping people watching for a photo finish?
I have the same questions myself, OP. I am slipping into a depression over this.
I don't know about "splint"--it may need a splint after it's all said and done (another civil war?). Which reminds me, I've always wondered how the North and South would stack up today as compared to 1861-65. I know that then the North had more people, more factories/manufacturing, money/banks (which helped finance the great expansion of industry and railroads in the North after the Civil War--J.P. Morgan, Jay Gould, John D. Rockefeller, the Vanderbilts, etc.) Today, generally speaking, the "red states" are southern (almost always including the "old confederacy") and the North is generally blue (as it was in the last Civil War!) politically. The South today has more banking (Charlotte, NC) and industry; its economy is still at least partly rooted in agriculture and while cotton is still significant in some areas, the South today produces a wide variety of agricultural products (peanuts, poultry) as well as some less useful items like tobacco and depending on one's viewpoint, whiskey. If rail is still considered, the North might still have an edge with that and maybe the South with trucking. The Northern economy today is more research, academia, retail and service and still has more people than the South. The South contains over half of all African Americans in the US today. The North is more unionized and has better schools. The South still contains most of the states with the greatest amount of poverty. Would anyone care to add to all of these observations? PS--the South contains more military bases/installations than the North, I think.
If you read anything about the Civil War, it's shocking/depressing to learn that Southerners were just as bull headed and self-destructive then as they are today. (I'm from Alabama, by the way.)
To what would you attribute that r3? The strong strain of Scotch-Irish (northern Ireland) in Southern attitudes/culture?
I think there is a strong strain of provincialism that hasn't faded as much in the last 40-50 years as you might expect. But that really doesn't explain much of anything. Rural/agrarian values and culture are still very strong here, even in cities, and nothing else is given enough exposure to really take hold.
That's probably just a lot of bunk---I honestly don't know, R4.
Here's the red state/blue state map. Looking at all that red is rather depressing.
Yes, but what I can't understand is why Indiana is always red; what's the story there. I've read/heard of a book called "What's the Matter with Kansas?", but what's the matter with Indiana? Would any posters from Indiana care to explain? I have heard/read also that Indiana is also a strange northern stronghold of the KKK. Is is "seepage" from Kentucky?
I know R6, but if you look at the Blue States, that's where the people are. Our huge federal tax base pays for all the goodies the red states get. They should thank us for it.
[quote]I have heard/read also that Indiana is also a strange northern stronghold of the KKK. Is is "seepage" from Kentucky?
No. The KKK resurfaced in Indiana and other parts of the country as a response to the increase of Catholic and Jewish immigration in the late 19th-early 20th century. They were/are against anyone who isn't a WASP.
You kinow, some rich men, and some racists bastards,and some really corrupt assholes, all got together and decided that Obama should be a one term President. This began even before the first vote was cast in 2008. When McCain whom they mostly hated, was looking more & more every day like a loser.
These top guys included Karl Rove, the NeoCon cabal, the Koch Brothers, Adelson and a few more $$ people. There were the minor players and operatives, whores like Scalia,Frank Luntz, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, etc.and then an even lower level all jockeying for position.
They decided they would take advantage of the four years to regroup and come up with an iron clad plan to insure their "Permanent Republican majority". The strategy was pretty transparent: Voter suppression, voter intimidation, misinformation and propaganda. They got a Supreme Court decision, (Citizens UNited) and this wasn't their first attempt to insure unlimited corporate financing. But this one is the one that worked. It opened the floodgates of the main thing they needed to accomplish their goals. Unlimited amounts of $$$.They had so much money they made fucking movies to smear Obama.
The marching orders for the GOP Congress? "Just say no!"
This isn't because Obama is incompetent, or ineffective or corrupt. There is no reason at all to get rid of him. None. If you go by what he has done, what he has failed to do, there is no reason to fire this man.
They are doing it because they want to regain power, and if they succeed it is because people let them. Think about it. Obama is not a stranger so they can't effectively demonize him with undecideds or independents. They can reinforce their base with that crap but not the broader public.
If we allow the man who pulled us back from the brink of complete financial ruin,saved the automobile industry, passed Affordable Heatlthcare, killed Osama Bin Laden, and who has been a champion of Human Rights & the Middle Class to be voted out of office FOR NO GOOD REASON, it will bring shame upon us as a nation.
The rest of the world will view us with a level of contempt we have not yet experienced, and everything we do as a nation on the international stage will be more expensive and ten times harder.
A defeat of Obama will send a very ugly message to the rest of the world about who we are. How dumb, and how racist, and how foolish we are. They will win ugly. They will come into office on a tide of outrageous lies, voter suppression, and voter intimidation, with a program that will kill any vestiges of the Democracy we have touted for so long. The message they will send to Americans and to the rest of the world will be undeniable. We will be covered in shame.
It always amazes me that Americans don't even understand their own country. There'll NEVER be a blue state right smack in the middle of the USA. The country was designed purposely for that reason: the people in red states are coddled and rarely think beyond their own states. The whole world disappears if you live there so that's why they vote repub because it's all about self-interest: USA USA USA! The blue states have the most cosmopolitan, the most urban and the most racially mixed population which is why they vote democrat.
A lot of Southerners migtrated north for World War II defense jobs, and to work in the auto plants. Relocated Southern racists abound in Ohio, Indiana and even in parts of Michigan suburban to Detroit. When they came here they brought their culture and their prejudices with them and handed them down from one generation to another.
We aren't a melting pot. We are an insular people who have always been suspicious of "others." Our political system, especially in the post Civil War years of bossism, harnessed various ethnic groups,or unions vs. corporate thugs, and, in order to win elections, we've pitted one group against another. Divide and Conquer.
Add to that that this is a very large country geographically so there are always going to be regional differences. Befor Lincoln became President weren't there three or four political parties based on various regional differences?
For R7: Lots and lots of Amish (third highest state population in the US) and German Baptists, a strong religious underpinning of everything. Straight White Anglo-Saxon Protestant to the hilt. One of the worst high school graduation rates in the country, and piss-poor schools in general. Education is not valued unless it’s for vocational or tech industry employment. Fat, ugly, mouth-breathers proud of their ignorance, their whiteness, and their dedication to Fox Noise. There’s a huge feeling among people that whites have been and are being victimized by people of darker skin who get all the perks and privileges. Large KKK presence all over the state but especially around Martinsville. Gun-nut survivalist mentality. Indianapolis has historically been one of the three most conservative cities in the US, although this has changed somewhat in the last 10 years. I guarantee Indiana will go back to red in the next election. Most Hoosiers hate Obama to such an extent that it intrudes on their professional duties. I woke up in surgery recovery a couple weeks ago to the nurse saying “Nobody hates Obama more than I do …”, and that’s hardly the first time something like that has happened. What’s not to love? Indiana is the Florida of the North.
R6, most of those Red States are incredibly thinly populated, and yet their senators are some of the most powerful people in politics because of that.
There was a recent post by someone from Europe in one of the political thread that explained how many Europeans view the US and the way it's so polarized between liberal and conservative. It was really insightful and I'll search and try to find it.
[quote]When they came here they brought their culture and their prejudices with them and handed them down from one generation to another.
Thanks to multiculturalism, any place with large immigrant populations is having that problem now.
Please do not elect Romney. He will take the country backwards. After all the gains that have been made--do not elect this lying fraud douchebag.
The jobs that Romney prediicts are likely to come as predicted by economists. We don't need him. He's dangerous.
I think it's whites vs everyone else, and war is necessary to maintain white supremacy. Whites have a paranoia that everyone else is out to take what they have - despite the fact that the wealth of whites has been created by the labor of non-whites.
White women are as invested in the system of white supremacy as their white husbands.
No democrat has gotten the majority of the white female vote since the Civil Rights Act of 1965 passed. Is it because they want to be subservient? No, it's because they fear the equal rights of non-whites.
I just cannot believe a rancid, unlikable pretender like Mitt Romney is appealing to so may people! What does he know? Nothing!
That map reflects nothing. Indiana went for Obama in 2008. So did Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio, Nevada, Colorado, New Hampshire and Florida.
There is no way I can ever take Mitt seriously. And one of the reasons is because I know what kind of underwear he is wearing. If you don't believe me just do a web search on mormon underwear.
The Wisconson election was presented as one that would be so close that we'd have to wait days for the results but by 8:00pm election night, the republicans had won by 30%.
[quote] if you look at the Blue States, that's where the people are. Our huge federal tax base pays for all the goodies the red states get. They should thank us for it.
It's a shame we can't split from them. I'd be perfectly happy to let them have Romney as their lord and master and leave their trailer parks in shambles after their god sends a tornado tearing through.
That's rather a poor job, r6. Here's the actual map from the last election in 2008, showing Democratic pickups in
West--Colorado, part of Nebraska
South--Virginia, North Carolina, Florida
You know, I've been coming to this site since 2005 (when I only first discovered it) and I always love the wit, bitchiness, theater- and culture-loving, and sophistication I find here (with a special nod to our friends outside the US.)
But just reading: R1 (stay strong!), R10, R12, R13 - I am, like, PROUD to read this site! Such intelligence, knowledge of history, trends, sense - bravo, gentlemen (and ladies) - I salute you. If the rest of this country goes nuts in this election and that freak show Romnesiac is elected: at least there will always be a "calm center" of sensible people here.
I mean this sincerely.
Feeling part of a wonderful "brotherhood"
Why are Democrats such losers? They see a tie and get depressed? Democrat= Loser mentality.
Turn out is going to win or lose this election for someone. Voter turnout was 62% in 2008. Obama needs to match that turnout to win. Get fired up!
[quote] despite the fact that the wealth of whites has been created by the labor of non-whites.
You say that like it's a bad thing!
But I like gays AND want women in a subserviant role. It's only natural.
"I do think that this is going to be a very close race, and we've said that consistently," he said. "We feel good about where we are. We feel we’re even or ahead in these battleground states."
Axelrod said early voting from the battleground states is a better barometer right now.
"It’s very robust, and it's very favorable to us," he said. "And we think that’s a better indicator than these public polls which are frankly all over the map."
As R20 said, Indiana went blue in the last presidential election.
[quote]Yes, but what I can't understand is why Indiana is always red; what's the story there.
There is a lot of adherence to "Hoosier values", which as you would suspect, include small government, low taxes, moderate spending, self-reliance, and individualism. It's a big tea party, but without the shouting.
Financial affairs are very important to Hoosiers. In Indiana, a balanced budget is not enough. We want run a surplus to keep a healthy rainy day fund. Compare with the mess that is our neighbor Illinois. While they approach bankruptcy with their huge debt, the portion of our current annual surplus that is above the set-aside for rainy day is going in part to bolster public employee pension funds and part as a refund to taxpayers. So things like debt and deficit are important to Hoosiers.
r13, although the Amish would typically veer toward "conservatism" or at least one would think so, they rarely vote, as I understand. I'm fairly sure the vast majority do not have Social Security numbers and are exempt from paying into the Social Security system. That said though, I think your post helped me to get a grasp on what is wrong with Indiana, at least as a northern state, and r31 was OK in trying to explain it too, but I'm not sure why that sort of fiscal obsession would be preponderant in Indiana in particular, most localities in the US have these considerations in mind. Enjoyed r10 and r12 posts too although r10 was almost depressing.
The 1% can't maintain control very well unless the rest of us are fairly evenly split and distracted by that struggle.
[quote]Splint Right Down The Middle
Huge splint. No doubt the splint will be secured in place.
I wish we would have let the South secede. Those of us in the North and the West would be far better off without them.
I thought Amish people were non-voters too, sort of like Jehovah's Witnesses in the notion that the only kingdom on Earth is the one that Jesus will rule with those who are Saved.
R34...Can be "splint" down the middle if you have a very long and strong piece of wood.
I, for one, do not want that Mor(m)on motherfucker in the White House. If you want a return to the faggot-hating days of Reagan, vote Romney.
I could not have expressed that sentiment more eloquently myself..
We could probably survive a Republican president, IF we had a different Democratic Congress. Fucking lame ass, spineless motherfuckers. I'm talking about Reid, Pelosi, etc.
I'm not sure at this point if someone meant it as a joke or if they actually believed that the Amish control or tilt any election.
Americans tend to do what they are told by the Corporate media, so if the media promotes it, Americans fall in line and make it a reality.
The Corporate media likes the split because it keeps the power in their hands. A National party holding 90% of the popular vote, would seriously threaten the current Corporate Rule in America.
R32, R36, and R41, my point about the Amish presence was not meant to relate to voter turnout in any way, but as an example of how White Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture in Indiana is so pervasive that it makes the state very receptive to the Amish and German Baptists, who embody WASP family and religion ideals taken to an extreme. The Republican party is the WASP party, hence Indiana being a hardcore Republican state. Turning blue in the last election was a fluke.
In order to hide fraud via vote-flipping with Diebold touch screen voting machines, you have to convince people ahead of time that either outcome is as likely as the other.